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SIS: Your thoughts on LOST finale (SPOILERS likely)


I couldn't find a LOST discussion anywhere and, like most LOST fans, I am itching for a discussion. I have a ton of thoughts but am too tired to lay them all out, so I'll just hit a few points:

1) I am amazed by the number of people who think Oceanic 815 crashed in the beginning and the whole island was a figment of Jack's imagination. The End is obviously open to debate, but that's just wrong-headed. You would have had to have come into the finale with that conclusion in mind to even fathom that that's what happened, and even then there's just way too much going against that to still believe it to be true. Can we all here agree the island happened, the characters all died eventually and then went the sideways Purgatory Place to get ready for their final afterlife?

2) That being said, there are plenty of valid criticisms with the way they wrapped it up. If you're an answers fan or a mythology fan or a sci-fi fan, you probably didn't like the finale. It was a hardcore character fest. Personally, I really liked it.

3) There was an implied unhappy ending for Sawyer, Claire and Kate, I thought. The fact that Kate said she missed Jack implies she lived on for some time after the island, and we can assume the same for Claire and Sawyer. But in this ending, the Island was still the most important times of their lives. I think this means they either died a relatively short time after leaving, or they led relatively unfulfilling lives once they got home. Bittersweet?

That's all I've got at this moment. What did you guys think? Too sappy? Not enough answers? Just right?

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dude

Even people who have watched it religiously from the beginning wish someone could explain it! ;-)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 24, 2010 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

The 2010 Reds – "It could have been a lot worse"
by RedsMasochist on May 4, 2010 8:47 PM EDT

by Madville on May 24, 2010 6:47 AM EDT reply actions  

I loved the island finish

I’m still trying to reconcile the other stuff. I liked it, but there are parts that bothered me. I may need to rewatch before I develop a final opinion.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 24, 2010 7:44 AM EDT reply actions  

I hate Deus ex machina

It’s lazy writing. The “science” was already teetering on the verge of making Battlestar look plausible, but the finale was too much hokum for me. The entire Season 6 Sideways arc was a waste of time (and silly).

The whole thing reminds me of why I swore off Stephen king after the Dark Tower series. A great beginning is cool, folks, but why can’t anyone write an end.

I really need to get the DVD’s of The Wire

by timb116 on May 25, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i loved the Sideways storylines

more than anything i want to see a spin-off where Sawyer and Miles are a cop duo in LA. that show practically writes itself. you could call it Lost in La La Land.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 25, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

What you are saying is something I agree with completely and disagree with strongly

i.e. the Sideways arc was stupid and lazy conceptually as an ending to the show, but portions of it were executed wonderfully. Locke, Ben, and Miles and Sawyer’s Sideways stories were just awesome. That still doesn’t mean, to me anyway, that the whole touch-y feel-y silly purgatory part needed to be in every epsiode.

Then again, I way too much a materialist to create a TV show like this. I gave up mystical spiritualism a LONG time ago and constantly find myself trying not to offend those who believe, so deas ex machina, walk into the pretty light was never going to work for me.

Awesome thread though and Charlie, you were awesome in it. Speaking of which, the sideways episodes did make it possible to hang with Dominic again and I missed that little hobit when he was gone. My only question is why Claire accepted him as a mate in the Finale when she never did on the Island

by timb116 on May 25, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah she did

right before the looking glass, they kissed, and rose was calling charlie “your man” to claire, and she just kinda blushed

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 25, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know what I meant

I agree he was sweet on her and she cared for him, but they never really…..you know… agreed to go steady or that other thing which seemed to cement Shannon and Sayid.

On the other hand, that whole thing seems like it was 10 years ago (season 3?), so maybe I shouldl defer to your better memory

by timb116 on May 25, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, i mean, they never hit it

but if you go back and watch the season 3 finale and the season 4 opener, they have finally become something of a couple. then he dies

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 25, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hoped Kate would have died. hard.

she didnt, but the finale was pretty good anyway. i think they did a good job of toeing that line between not explaining enough and explaining too much (which is too say they didnt explain very much at all). but that was what the whole show was all about, so im cool with that.

a few things:

the aforementioned stuff about the secondary characters, especially Sayid. so much of the show was spent dwelling on his relationship with Nadia, and it turns out the “most important” person in his life was that whiny slut Shannon? they had all of, what, 3 episodes 4 years ago to establish that relationship and all the sudden it’s the best he ever had? that felt forced.

they didnt even try to explain away Walt. they could have said something, right? i know the actor grew up too fast and they had to write around him, but they could have said something, anything, to explain why he was special. i guess it’s best they left it unsaid, as anything probably would have felt weird. i dont know.

it was really great to see real Charlie again, if even for just a few moments. im still kinda hurt that he had to die so soon.

i HATE that Kate got the final shot at the Man in Black. i was reeeaaaally hoping that she would be the one thrown off the cliff. and then spit upon.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 24, 2010 8:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I thought I would be more upset about the Sayid/Shannon reunion.

Because, like all decent people, I hated her guts. But at that point, I was just so relieved for Sayid to find some modicum of redemption, I didn’t even mind that it was with her. She didn’t deserve him, but he deserved happiness.

I was also sad not to see Walt or Michael. Their absence was conspicuous. At least Vincent made it to the end!

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Michael and Walt missing was weird, OTOH

Ben couldn’t/wouldn’t come in to the church at the end because he was an outsider and had done so many horrible things to those people. I wonder if, because Michael betrayed them and left, the same applied to him?

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on May 24, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

from what i understand

from what Michael told Hurley in the jungle, he is one of the whispers now. i guess he’ll just mumble in the jungle forever.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 24, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was hoping to see Mr. Eko also

"I don't challenge Murphy, even if he's 0 for 20. Not him, not ever." - Mario Soto

by Caleb on May 24, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

my buddy

who is a pretty ridiculous Lostie, says the actor who played Mr Eko was kind of a dick. they couldnt work with him, so they wrote him out of the show. he was ’sposed to be a pretty important guy, i guess.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 24, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

funny

that seems to have been a case with most of the tailies. Everyone must have just loathed Ana Lucia, because she was at one point Jack’s main love interest and then they just eliminated her. Then they essentially made a knockoff of her in Ilana.

I watched with a friend, and we were both joking about how they didn’t let any black people in the church (other than Rose). I think they ended Michael’s story nicely with him being stuck in the jungle, and logistically, there really was no good way to reincorporate Walt into the show. As has been said, he’s like 8 feet tall now. Besides, the whole point of the church was that the island was the important time in those people’s lives. I would hope that wouldn’t be the case for Walt once he dies and goes to his own purgatory.

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 24, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting.

I’ll have to watch it again eventually, but I didn’t interpret Ben not entering the church as some sort of atonement for his horrible-doings. Maybe because I didn’t know the twist ending yet, but I interpreted it as he still had living to do there in alternate world— a life with Rousseau and Alex, maybe?

Now that I know the twist ending, though, your interpretation makes more sense.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shannon

the best explanation ive heard so far is that with nadia, sayid was always a former torturer and could never experience true love with nadia. with shannon, though, he had a more pure connection. I don’t really buy it, but then again, it would have been a shame for Sayid to be alone, and Nadia just would not have fit with the rest of the group.

Anyone else feel bad for Locke and Boone (and Christian, I suppose) that they were the only ones not coupled up in the church?

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 24, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Outside of the spitting, I too was disappointed kate got to go away

With that said, if I allowed myself to suspend disbelief that Jack would be able to anything but die quickly form a 6 inch knife wound to the kidney, that that plane could be flown again, that ben was trapped under a tree for 2 minutes and then miraculously healed, that a bullet wounded Kate could swim to the boat, and that Lapidus could somehow survive getting hit with a blast door……

and I was able to, then I REALLY liked the Island ending. The sideways part sucked

Walt? who’s he? You mean the guy the entire first season was about? He was unimportant since the producers knew the ending right when the show began!

Bunch of Liars

by timb116 on May 25, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

theyve never claimed to know the ending right when the show began

theyve admitted that all they knew when they made the pilot was the pilot. theyve said that they subscribe more to the stephen king style of storytelling than jk rowling

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 25, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

matthew fox said that too, in a way

but upon elaboration, he just meant “I knew he was going to close his eye and he was going to die.” I don’t know what quotes you’re talking about, but I doubt they ever said they knew exactly how the show was gonna play out.

And there’s this

And it wasn’t really until Carlton came in around that time and said, "You don’t really have to worry about what season three is, let’s just worry about what episode 10 is."
Can that lead to new mysteries without making the audience feel like, you dodged a bullet, but also can you make it – can you effectively convince the audience that when we showed you the hatch, we already knew what was inside it, and this sort of connected into the, “Are you making it up as you go along?” phenomenon. Which is clearly—you know, in television writing just in order to do your job you have to make up a certain degree of it as you go along, but the question becomes, what are you making up as you go along, and what is fixed?
* I’ve never really gotten that criticism, “They’re making it up as they go along.” I mean, I wouldn’t want you guys to have no clue – but whenever, you know, when novelists talk about their work, they talk about how the characters have to speak to them, and they surprise you. If you didn’t to some extent make it up as you went along, it would suck.

CC: Totally.

DL: It wouldn’t just suck, I think it’s enormously audacious and conceited and you know, obnoxious to say, our plan is going to work. The plan that we had five years ago, and we are not going to change it no matter what. Like, that completely doesn’t allow for the idea that something could go wrong, which it often does.

CC: It’s like deciding that, you know, when you’re 10 years old you want to be an astronaut, and then being unyielding in the face of whatever exists including the demise of NASA. I mean it’s like you have to be malleable and we, we tried to find that balance sort of between thinking about the future and being organized, but at the same time giving ourselves a lot of latitude for discovery along the way.

I think they’ve made it pretty clear that, while they may have had some ideas of what they wanted the show to be eventually, maybe even in respect to some specifics, as far as Jack dying and ending with the backwards beginning and maybe even the purgatory, theyve always been flexible throughout the process and willing to change things. I don’t think they ever lied about that.

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 25, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never seen it.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on May 24, 2010 8:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, I loved it.

Looking back, there are things I wish they’d addressed better (the whole Walt loose end is the biggest problem for me) or things that don’t quite add up (if the alternate storyline was a sort of Purgatory, why all the different details like Jack’s son and Sawyer’s job, and why the need to have their “awakening” moments?)

But I literally found myself saying about an hour and a half in, “At this point, they’ve honored the series’ past so well, given me so many little happy endings, I don’t even care if everyone ends up dead in the end.” I’ve always been someone who watches primarily for the characters, so this was exactly the kind of closure I wanted. And I loved the symmetry of the final imagery. Good story, very good.

Also, has anyone read the novel Life of Pi? One of my favorites, but it also has a very controversial ending. I have a feeling the people who were upset by that book’s ending would be upset by the end of Lost, too. Just a theory.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 9:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, that Life of Pi ending was tough.

I like things to be wrapped up neatly, but that book left so much ambiguity. I still really appreciated it, though.

I liked this too. Whatever you think about the “purgatory” sideways world, it was a really brilliant way to honor the show, honor the characters, and provide a nice sense of closure to all of the relationships, etc. I also liked the symmetry of the ending, and thought it was a great touch to have Hurley become the new guardian.

I had actually mostly forgotten about Walt, so I didn’t mind them not discussing it. The one thing I didn’t like was that Jack was able to go down to the “light”, put that stone thingy back, and then suddenly appear outside the cave. Why didn’t he turn into a smoke monster? Why didn’t it simply kill him down there? How did he get out? That seemed a bit forced, but otherwise I was pleased.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on May 24, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

was the

“smokey” a one time thing?

Where did Ben go at the end when he didn’t go inside with every one else? Is his spirit left to wander for eternity? Or is he the new number 1?

"I don't challenge Murphy, even if he's 0 for 20. Not him, not ever." - Mario Soto

by Caleb on May 24, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think Ben

wants to stick around Purgatory a while longer to atone a bit more. there is no more Island in the Sidways Purgatory.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 24, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

IMO...

Ben wants to kick it with Alex and Rousseau until they let go.

by cmick on May 24, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, as I said above, this was also my interpretation.

Same thing goes for Daniel and Charlotte, maybe? And Miles with his Dad… or something?

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure they thought the cave of light thing out at all....

While I hate the entire spectacle of the waste of time the Season 6 Sideways arc was, I got to admit, if they had limited to this one episode, happy characters redeeming themselves with the ones they loved made me feel good. Still, for a whole season? makes no freakin sense.

I think you completely summed up my feeling about it with

it was a really brilliant way to honor the show, honor the characters, and provide a nice sense of closure to all of the relationships, etc

The only change i would have made was more exposition throughout season 6 on actual island goings on and spend barely a couple of weeks in the Sideways chick ending

by timb116 on May 25, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

re: Purgatory

i think the whole point of it was that they created a world for themselves where they had exactly what they had always wanted in the Real World. Jack had the respect of his father, Desmond had the respect of Mr. Widmore, Sayid had Nadia not be dead, etc. they needed “awakened” from it so they could realize their own deaths and move on to the next…whatever life or something. i think.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 24, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe Rose and Bernard should have been in the church

They made it pretty clear they didn’t want any part of that group.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 24, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

true

but i suppose the island was the best time of their lives. i guess that counts?

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 24, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not complaining

but that was the first thought through my head when I saw them. They felt more out of place to me than Shannon or Penny.

The episode helped me come to grips with the hokey glowing cave. Unfortunately, in order to tell the story in the fashion they wanted to tell it, they needed to make the island’s power source something concrete, otherwise, we’d be thoroughly confused as to how things were change without any real visual evidence. I’m actually kind of happy that they waited until the last couple of episodes to introduce the cave. I think they probably knew it was cheesy, but it was necessary, so they saved it until they absolutely needed it.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 24, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

But then...

where was Vincent in the church? This is obviously the most important lingering mystery of the whole series.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was nice to see

Sun and Jin finally have an ending where they weren’t seperated

"I don't challenge Murphy, even if he's 0 for 20. Not him, not ever." - Mario Soto

by Caleb on May 24, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Of course, the bigger finale is tonight with 24

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel
is just a freight train coming your way.

by btcoop71 on May 24, 2010 10:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Is Dexter back yet?

"Every day we expect to win and here lately we've been doing that."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on May 24, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions  

I know

I really want to see how they clean that mess up.

"Every day we expect to win and here lately we've been doing that."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on May 24, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Lost fans...What was the Darma Initiative?

where were the shipments of Dharma food coming from?

who was shooting at Sawyer & Kate from the other boat during the time skips?

by 'tHan on May 24, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions  

answers

1. the Dharma Initiative was your face
2. the food was coming from your butt
3. your mom was shooting at Sawyer and Kate

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 24, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh so you're a postmodernist.

This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.

by andromache on May 24, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

That second question kind of bugs me.

(Even though you mean Sawyer and Juliet, not Kate.) People took guns into boats to cross to the other island approximately a million times this season. How hard would it have been to have one of them encounter and shoot at the time-jumping canoers?

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Darlton said that they couldn't ever have it make sense with the story

they knew last season who was on that other boat, but when it came time to write it this season, they felt like they would only be doing it to close that loop, which they didn’t believe was necessary to the whole storyline. Would have been a cool callback, but I don’t think it was necessary to answer.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 24, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 2004 Dharma food drops

is still my biggest pet peeve.

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 24, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure but that speaks to some sort of off-island dharma presence

that knew how to get to the island. That’s an interesting avenue to explore.

Moreso than another Kate is a total-pixie-badass-innocent-farmgirl-bankrobber-midwife-bulletproofvest-who-doesn’t-know-how-to-hold-a-fucking-rifle story.

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 24, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate that Kate got to kill SmokeLocke

She didn’t deserve that honor. It should have been Sawyer, and thematically, it makes more sense for it to be Sawyer.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 24, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't get the Kate hate.

Aside from some sidetracking around season 3, when the writers downgraded her to basically a ping-pong ball bouncing between two men, I always thought she was one of the most grounded characters on the island. The Aaron/Claire really storyline redeemed her for me.

And the feminist side of me liked that it was Kate who killed Locke. The princess rescued the knight, instead of vice versa.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even by the standards of pop-drama fiction, Kate is just an unbelievable character

I didn’t like Ana Lucia, but she’s a believable version of the Kate type character, at least the edgy, violent part that supposed to make her interesting.

Whoever’s fault it is — creators’ or actor’s — Evie Lilly just never pulled that off. You can visibly see her lose interest at times and sleepwalk through scenes and episodes.

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 24, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Caveat: I was never as interested in flashback Kate as island Kate.

Flashback Kate, for me, was only worthwhile as a build-up for her on-island change. A lot of her backstory was far-fetched, for sure. Once she got to the island, I don’t know… I just found her likable and relateable.

Maybe that’s what makes her unbelievable, now that I think about it, to change so much so quickly.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

As I said in my post below, most of the characters are only interesting as characters given the fluid and strange situation on the island. I think the show began to overrate our interest in them off-island.

I pick on Kate, but I think this is true for many of the characters

I resented the ending a little bit because it seemed to relegate the island’s importance (and what happened there) to little more than a staging ground for the awakening purgatory. I also resent a little being told that my interest in the actual how and why of the island is missing the point. That I should be more interested in watching Kate delivering Aaron AGAIN.

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 24, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the Kate hate either

I asked some Lost-fan friends of mine about it, and they were surprised to hear she was a hated character.

What’s wrong with her? Is she a too good to be true Mary Sue type?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 26, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

As far as I’m concerned, she brought nothing to the table besides looks, which I found to only be slightly better than average, but she was built into this central part of stupid love triangle. She was also the only character who didn’t evolve over 6 seasons (the becoming a mom stuff wasn’t evolution, she was the same character except she had a kid now). She was supposed to be the central female character on the show, yet I found just about every other female to be more interesting except maybe Shannon.

That being said, I didn’t start wishing her to die until the season 5 finale when the writers decided that the love triangle fight was more important than the fate of the island stuff which was infinitely more interesting. It’s not Kate’s fault that I wanted her to die. I just wanted the writers to stop acting like I should care more than I do about her.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 26, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

why i hate Kate

basically what you just said, but mostly because of the potential. at the beginning she was a bad ass chick who could handle a gun and skin a buck and lead people and yet still maintain her femininity (unlike Ana Lucia). she showed flashes of being able to break out of the typical Hollywood female mold at which the feminists role their eyes in disdain.

then she devolved into that same old Hollywood woman we all know; indecisive, irrational, emotional, and dumb. it’s as if going in, the writers thought to themselves, “gee, we should make this Kate character different. you know, like all those feminists talk about!” and then after a little while they realized they had no idea how to write that character, so they leaned back on the stereotype. i hate her for who she wasnt as much as for who she was.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 26, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

one quibble

I would argue that the original badass Kate is an even flatter Hollywood stereotype than the clingy, emotional Kate, especially in the context of the last 15 years or so. She was put together in much the same way an 8 year old constructs his supersecret underwater hideout (“and it’ll have an awesome huge cannon and it’ll be INVISIBLE and it will be able to FLY and it’ll have a gourmet kitchen and an animal hospital and a…”).

As I said somewhere below, if you want a tough chick with a propensity for violence, I totally buy Ana Lucia, who seemed genuinely damaged and toughened by her experience.

But the idea that Kate could punch people out and overpower them just wasn’t believable. If nothing else, than from a strictly physical standpoint. She’s so lithe and tiny. A conman? Sure, i’d buy that. But that was never enough for the producers; she had to be the good-hearted princess as well a la Keira Knightley in the Pirates movies.

Whether such a character is a positive feminist vision or not is a political argument, somewhat apart from an artistic one. In my mind, Kate as a character was unsuccessful given the standards of character verisimilitude the producers said they wanted to present to the audience.

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 26, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree her badassery wasnt very believable

in the context of her physical stature. but she was also wily, resourceful, and self-sufficient, at least in flashes. at least, enough to intrigue me. but it didnt last.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 26, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: happy endings
There was an implied unhappy ending for Sawyer, Claire and Kate, I thought….the Island was still the most important times of their lives. I think this means they either died a relatively short time after leaving, or they led relatively unfulfilling lives once they got home.

I don’t mind this interpretation, but I don’t think it’s the only one. For each of those three, the mere fact that Oceanic 815 didn’t land in LA irrevocably changed their future. Without the island hiatus, Kate would have gone to prison, Sawyer would have surely ended up back in prison, and Claire would have given Aaron up for adoption. So even if they went on to have amazing lives after they finally left the island, their time with the Losties was foundational.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

you make good points

i like this

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 24, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

anyone else still getting chills thinking about all the "awakenings"?

Those were so beautifully done, I though. It was like the eight most emotional moments in the history of the show, one after another. I kept thinking I couldn’t wait for the next one.

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 24, 2010 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes

An interesting perspective that I read today was the “awakeners” were each other’s “constants.” I liked that as a way to recall perhaps the greatest episode in the entire series.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 24, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't decide if the constant was my favorite, or flashes before your eyes

they were very similar episodes, both dealing with how desmond experiences the world differently than everyone else. Both are flawless. i like that it turned out that desmond was the one showing the way in how to understand their existences differently.

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 24, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was into the scifi/mystery aspects of the show

But I figured about 4 or 5 shows into this season that we were headed for something like we got and really stopped thinking and wondering about the show. I still enjoyed watching it, but I mostly forgot about it the moment after a show ended.

The fact that the two episodes that dealt with the island’s history were slow-paced and insular indicated to me that they weren’t really interested in really exploring the island anymore.

Last night’s conclusion was suitable and well-done, but I think that Darlton and the creators overestimate how interesting their characters actually are. Most of them are rather two dimensional, especially when they’re trying to emote. The acting has always been oases of great performances (usually from Michael Emerson and Terry O’Quinn) among long stretches of Jack/Kate/Claire desert. In any case, the most interesting character is always the Island itself. The longer the show is away from the island the more it drags.

I thought that this season, and this finale in particular, marginalized my interest and love for the island itself. It basically turned into a set from The New Adventure of Hercules in Season 6, some of that has to do with unfortunate production budget cuts, but I think that it also comes from a change in vision from the creators. What we’re told last night, very clearly imo, was that the island was like a giant vending machine that needed to be unplugged and replugged to get the desired empty calories of character resolution.

There some major narrative flaws for this ending, but because relying on vague and mush-mouthed religious and spiritual ideas can essentially argue away all the criticisms, I don’t think it’s worth going into. BTW, I hate and will always hate the notion that such’n’such is great" because it’s open to your own interpretation." If that’s true, then it’s not art.

In any case, it speaks to the talent of the creators that this ending — which is essentially an incredible cop out given the possibilities that existed in Season 3 and Season 4 — stil seemed plausibly conclusive.

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 24, 2010 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I'm confused by this:
BTW, I hate and will always hate the notion that such’n’such is great" because it’s open to your own interpretation." If that’s true, then it’s not art.

Can you elaborate? It sounds like you’re saying art shouldn’t be open to interpretation, but I may be reading it wrong.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm working from the creator's end of art rather than the critical end

Art should strive toward a demonstrable meaning or meanings that can be articulated or almost articulated. I’ve read a lot today that basically takes the stance that the ending is great because “anyone can make their own interpretation of it and feel that they’re right.”

That’s all well and good from the audience’s end (because who cares), but I feel like that kind of thinking began to infect the creators of the show (because they began talking in those terms in interviews this season). IMO an artist cannot consciously accept that “whatever the audience comes up with is valid.” I think that it’s perilous to have that catch-all excuse cued up and ready before the art has even been completed because you’ll begin working toward that vagueness.

Which is why we got a giant wheel at the bottom of a well in season 4 (an inspiring but delimited symbol) vs. a cave of yellow light (can mean anything, and, therefore, nothing).

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 24, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Okay, I agree with you, I think.

For example, the people who think the finale revealed that they all died in a plane crash, and the island was Purgatory all along— well, they’re just wrong. I don’t see that as a valid interpretation at all, and if I were the writers, I’d be annoyed that people think that.

That being said, I think any art has to include an opportunity for the audience to participate as meaning-makers. The art-maker’s intentions are fundamental, but if nothing’s open to interpretation—if there’s no symbolism or lingering mystery to engage the viewer/listener/reader/etc.— then you might as well just be reporting the news (no disrespect, of course, to those who report the news!)

For what it’s worth, I loved the finale because I truly believe the heart of the series was always the characters. But the meat of the story is the mythology, and it would have been no story at all without that. I think the finale was just as it should be, but they could have done a better job getting us there this season, and honored the complexities of the mythology better along the way.

by the finest muffins on May 24, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can respect that pov

As I tell my students, just because there may not be a single “right” answer to our discussion of a piece of art, doesn’t mean there aren’t mostly wrong answers.

If you walk out of here tonight and see a man c***-flapping, you run with that man.

by Man Mountain on May 24, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any interest in a similar post to discuss the end of 24?

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel
is just a freight train coming your way.

by btcoop71 on May 24, 2010 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

sure

the 9/11 fear era is over.

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 25, 2010 5:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

im still reading comments from fans

i think maybe 50 percent still think that everyone died in the plane crash. this blows me away

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 25, 2010 8:15 PM EDT reply actions  

no doubt

one of the last things Christian said was “the time you spent on the island with these people was the most important time in your LIFE.” come the fuck on folks.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 25, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

in relation to that...

HUGE shocker

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 25, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read one opinion that interpreted the plane wreckage in the credits

as proof that the Ajira plane with Kate, Sawyer, Claire, Miles, etc. didn’t make it off the island. I just read that montage as a tribute to the set designers or to season one or something like that.

by the finest muffins on May 25, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

also, the wreckage at the end had oceanic markings. i also read it as a slow clap for the set designers

Retractions are for journalists! -Gray

by boobs on May 26, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

If i knew more about Lost

I would attempt to make the case that Red Reporter is our Island.

by 'tHan on May 26, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

we're all dead

And Reds fandom is purgatory?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

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