Just for Fun: Could this be 1962 all over again?
This post is strictly intended to stoke your imagination. It is my belief that we should fully enjoy first place, and any relevant games, while they last. This season could go in the tank, or it could be a memorable one. The likelihood is that this is probably at best an 85-win team, but what fun is dreaming if you don't dream big every once in a while! Hope springs eternal!
So, just for fun, I was looking for similar teams to this current crop of Reds based on their pythagorean record and their actual record, just to see if there are any indicators for the future. When perusing the list of similar teams, I came across the 1962 Reds, who were 21-16 after 37 games, and who had scored 173 runs while allowing 183 to score (the current Reds are 177 and 178 respectively) and who went on to win 98 games, though they still only managed a 3rd place finish in the National League.
Similar to this year's team, the '62 squad started out slow. They were just 7-11 after dropping the first game of a double-header on 4/29, bu then went 14-5 over their next 19 games. Sound familiar?
Their paths to 21-16 aren't exactly the same, but they're pretty close. Here are a couple of graphs to show you how similar they are:

After the jump, we'll take a look at the individual players and imagine what it would take for these Reds to win 98 games!
Unfortunately, nobody is having a start of the season quite like Vada Pinson had in 1962. Over his first 37 games, he batted .336/.372/.671 with 12 HR and 36 RBI. The current Reds don't have a player with over 100 PA who is batting over .300. Also on the downside of this comparison is the fact that it is unlikely anyone will hit like Frank Robinson did after 37 games into the season. Robby batted .369/.443/.686 with 39 doubles and 36 HR in the final 125 games of the season. I don't see anyone on this current squad coming close to that.
| 1962 | 2010 | |||||
| First 37 Games | Season | First 37 Games | ||||
| Player | PA | wOBA | wOBA | Player | PA | wOBA |
| Vada Pinson | 164 | .427 | .345 | Ryan Hanigan | 69 | .423 |
| Wally Post | 132 | .382 | .355 | Joey Votto | 160 | .388 |
| Don Blasingame | 90 | .348 | .316 | Ramon Hernandez | 84 | .369 |
| Gordy Coleman | 145 | .340 | .345 | Scott Rolen | 133 | .358 |
| Johnny Edwards | 124 | .331 | .302 | Jay Bruce | 146 | .355 |
| Frank Robinson | 161 | .316 | .425 | Jonny Gomes | 112 | .335 |
| Leo Cardenas | 137 | .299 | .322 | Brandon Phillips | 161 | .331 |
| Eddie Casko | 154 | .283 | .304 | Orlando Cabrera | 150 | .293 |
| Cookie Rojas | 64 | .256 | .250 | Drew Stubbs | 139 | .284 |
Offensively, I think this year's squad can come close to the 1962 team, but it's unlikely they'll reach the 802 runs scored that that team put up. Right now, I'd say this team is likely a 760-780 run offense, which is about 4.7-4.8 runs per game. This is higher than what I would have predicted earlier in the season mainly because I've become a believer that Jay Bruce is breaking out this year. Perhaps that's a little premature on my part, but I don't care. This post is all about the optimism!
| 1962 | 2010 | ||||||
| First 37 Games | Season | First 37 Games | |||||
| Pitcher | IP | FIP | IP | FIP | Pitcher | IP | FIP |
| Bob Purkey | 79 | 3.65 | 288.1 | 3.87 | Bronson Arroyo | 52.2 | 4.61 |
| Joey Jay | 73 | 3.81 | 273 | 4.00 | Mike Leake | 46.2 | 4.18 |
| Jim O'Toole | 65.1 | 4.05 | 251.2 | 3.54 | Aaron Harang | 46.1 | 4.86 |
| Jim Maloney | -- |
-- |
115.1 | 3.92 | Johnny Cueto | 42 | 3.93 |
| Johnny Klippstein | 11 | 4.90 | 108.2 | 4.87 | Homer Bailey | 41.1 | 4.78 |
| Moe Drabowsky | 26 | 6.27 | 83 | 4.83 | Francisco Cordero | 19.1 | 4.35 |
| Joe Nuxhall | -- |
-- |
66 | 3.01 | Nick Masset | 18 | 3.54 |
| Jim Brosnan | 15 | 3.88 | 64.2 | 3.04 | Micah Owings | 16.1 | 3.26 |
| Ted Wills | 5 | 5.21 | 61 | 4.84 | Arthur Rhodes | 15 | 2.93 |
| Dave Sisler | 9 | 6.92 | 43.2 | 4.34 | Mike Lincoln | 13 | 4.72 |
| Bill Henry | 8.2 | 3.62 | 37.1 | 3.96 | Danny Herrera | 10.1 | 2.58 |
| Sammy Ellis | 16.2 | 6.95 | 28 | 6.88 | Logan Ondrusek | 8 | 7.39 |
| Bob Miller | 5.1 | 6.56 | 5.1 | 6.56 | Carlos Fisher | 4.1 | 4.88 |
Where the current squad will really need to pick up their game is on the pitching staff. It's hard to compare these two eras because bullpen usage has changed so dramatically, but the 1962 starting staff was much better than what we have seen from the 2010 squad. The present version has shown signs of improvement, and I think we can be optimistic, but it is still unlikely we'll see three pitchers like Purkey, Jay, and O'Toole, all of whom pitched over 250 innings with an ERA under 3.80.
Anyway, remember, this is all just for fun. The 2010 Reds aren't going to win 98 games. I don't expect anybody to believe that, but it's still fun to imagine the possibilities. We'll get back to baseball reality tonight. But for the rest of the afternoon, feel free to daydream about the possibilities!
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I think I can agree with that.
But Rolen has to be Rested enough to avoid injury and Harang needs to pitch well enough. What happens when Volquez comes back? Will he take Leake’s spot to avoid overusing him?
by chazzilla on May 17, 2010 2:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If this rotation is pitching like it is now
I don’t know if you throw Volquez back in auotmatically if/when he comes back this year. He’s coming off of a major surgery, and shouldn’t be guaranteed a spot when he’s healthy. He definatly could be some great bullpen help for the rest of this year, and if they part ways with Harang he gets his rotation spot back. Bottom line, there shouldn’t be a spot waiting for him when he gets back.
Wake up in the clubhouse feeling like Ken Griffey.
www.nextyearisouryear.blogspot.com
I think a servicable bullpen arm is all we should expect/hope for from Volkie this season.
and that might not happen either.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
chaz responding to chaz
This is my thesis man! This is my closing argument! I CAN STOP READING THE INTERNET!!!
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by Slyde on May 17, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
very interesting
we dont have any Frank Robinsons here, but we may have 5-6 Wally Posts or Vada Pinsons.
by Charlie Scrabbles on May 17, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
and no midseason Jim Maloney
also, Don Blasingame is one of my favorite names in baseball…its just such a 60’s sort of name
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Man...
If he puts it together in time to help this team out, we could have a pretty legitimate staff and a strong pen. Think about the post season- We have a pretty sweet top 3, and we could add 2 starters into the bullpen. Hmm.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Blasingame was one of the pioneers for playing in Japan after his career here ended
He also managed a few seasons for a couple of NPB teams.
Since we're dreaming, 91-95 wins if:
1-Bruce continues to mature and seriously breaks out, to the tune of a .380 wOBA
2-Votto hits basically like last year
3-Hernanigans don’t regress too much. No way Ryan wOBAs .423 over the season, but if they can combine for .350-.370 wOBA that will do.
4-Leake doesn’t get tired, injured, or suddenly hittable.
5-Cueto and Bailey start to dominate like they are capable, and can find some consistency
6-Stubbs can get comfy and wOBA himself up to almost league average (.315-.330) That will go a long way to making up for the lack of an MVP type.
7-CoCo doesn’t implode
That’s a whole lotta ifs, but hey, let’s be optimistic!
(Great post Slyde)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Don't forget #8
Walt flips minor leaguers for an impact bat for left or an impact bat/glove for SS, and/or an arm for the pen
Or we really luck out and Yonder starts to tear AAA up and regains that lost power.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
... and somehow managed to be an adequate fielder...
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Same, but to be fair, Dunn kind of single-handedly carried our offense...
As long as Yonder’s offense outweighs any defensive problems, I’ll be incredibly happy.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
The 62 Reds, one of my favorites
As for the graphs, I can’t evaluate, but I do remember some of the characters and some of the events.
In spring training that year, Gene Freese, our third baseman, fractured his ankle and the word from Sports Illustrated was glaring: THE REDS IS DEAD.
This following up on the magnificent 1961 most exciting ever EVER pennant team in history.
The Reds wasn’t dead but the 62 season was a horse race with the lowly Mets and (Cubs) and Colt .45s all sucking sucking, not to mention the Phillies still sucked. The Mets lost 120 games. Result: Three teams — LA, SF and CIN were all upward toward 100 wins, the Dodgers and Giants finally going into a playoff after the Reds were ousted.
Freese had come back by August or so (I was at that return game, and Crosley was packed!) but he didn’t help the team much afterward.
We could have won that pennant, maybe.
But to go into the specifics of games winnable and records obtainable, you MUST factor in the two expansion teams plus the awful product the Cubs put on the field. Somebody has to win a game that somebody loses.
"You’ve got to enjoy the moment — enjoy May 16th." — Dusty Baker
I think a 3rd baseman named Freese should get hurt this year.
That would significantly help us against the Cards. That guy kills us.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
A side note on Nux
He pitched his entire career with Cincy except for 1961. He came back in 1962. What this means is the only year he wasn’t with the Reds was the only time in his career that they won a pennant. Sad but true.
"You’ve got to enjoy the moment — enjoy May 16th." — Dusty Baker
I'm too young to be so pessimistic
I voted 76-80.
A+++++++++++ GREAT POST! WILL READ AGAIN! BLOG WITH CONFIDENCE!
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
I definitely think Arroyo will hit 280 IP this year.
He’s at 52.7 already, and he has 26 more starts or so. All he needs to do is average 8.7 IP per start the rest of the way, and he’s there!
Great post Slyde, lots of fun. I hope this first place thing lasts more than a day, because I feel freaking awesome about it today. :)
-j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
what's the modern, 5-man-staff, IP record?
CC pitched 252.1 that year he was traded to Milwaukee.
Randy Johnson pitched 272.1 in 1999.
Anyone else?
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Johnson is the most since 1990
Dave Stewart threw 275 in 1988. Roger Clemens had 281 in 1987. Blyleven had 293 in 1985. I’m not sure if all of those were pure 5-man rotations like today.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Dwight Gooden 276.2 (1985)
Dave Stewart 275.2 (1988), Fernando Valenzuela 272.1 (1985)
These were some of the biggest horses I could remember, but there were still three better seasons since 1987.
10th in IP in '62 was Johnny Podres with 255
That would have led the NL last year by more than 20. And the run scoring environment wasn’t that different, either.
1st place is so freaking sweet.
I took lots of solace in rubbing that in all of my Cardinal fan friends’ faces today. Maybe it won’t last, but hey- while it does, I’m gonna relish it.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

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