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Just for Fun: Could this be 1962 all over again?

This post is strictly intended to stoke your imagination. It is my belief that we should fully enjoy first place, and any relevant games, while they last. This season could go in the tank, or it could be a memorable one. The likelihood is that this is probably at best an 85-win team, but what fun is dreaming if you don't dream big every once in a while! Hope springs eternal!

So, just for fun, I was looking for similar teams to this current crop of Reds based on their pythagorean record and their actual record, just to see if there are any indicators for the future. When perusing the list of similar teams, I came across the 1962 Reds, who were 21-16 after 37 games, and who had scored 173 runs while allowing 183 to score (the current Reds are 177 and 178 respectively) and who went on to win 98 games, though they still only managed a 3rd place finish in the National League.

Similar to this year's team, the '62 squad started out slow. They were just 7-11 after dropping the first game of a double-header on 4/29, bu then went 14-5 over their next 19 games. Sound familiar?

Their paths to 21-16 aren't exactly the same, but they're pretty close. Here are a couple of graphs to show you how similar they are:

Daily_record_medium

Rundiff_medium

After the jump, we'll take a look at the individual players and imagine what it would take for these Reds to win 98 games!

 

Star-divide

Unfortunately, nobody is having a start of the season quite like Vada Pinson had in 1962. Over his first 37 games, he batted .336/.372/.671 with 12 HR and 36 RBI. The current Reds don't have a player with over 100 PA who is batting over .300. Also on the downside of this comparison is the fact that it is unlikely anyone will hit like Frank Robinson did after 37 games into the season. Robby batted .369/.443/.686 with 39 doubles and 36 HR in the final 125 games of the season. I don't see anyone on this current squad coming close to that.
1962 2010
First 37 Games Season First 37 Games
Player PA wOBA wOBA Player PA wOBA
Vada Pinson 164 .427 .345 Ryan Hanigan 69 .423
Wally Post 132 .382 .355 Joey Votto 160 .388
Don Blasingame 90 .348 .316 Ramon Hernandez 84 .369
Gordy Coleman 145 .340 .345 Scott Rolen 133 .358
Johnny Edwards 124 .331 .302 Jay Bruce 146 .355
Frank Robinson 161 .316 .425 Jonny Gomes 112 .335
Leo Cardenas 137 .299 .322 Brandon Phillips 161 .331
Eddie Casko 154 .283 .304 Orlando Cabrera 150 .293
Cookie Rojas 64 .256 .250 Drew Stubbs 139 .284

Offensively, I think this year's squad can come close to the 1962 team, but it's unlikely they'll reach the 802 runs scored that that team put up. Right now, I'd say this team is likely a 760-780 run offense, which is about 4.7-4.8 runs per game. This is higher than what I would have predicted earlier in the season mainly because I've become a believer that Jay Bruce is breaking out this year. Perhaps that's a little premature on my part, but I don't care. This post is all about the optimism!

1962 2010
First 37 Games Season First 37 Games
Pitcher IP FIP IP FIP Pitcher IP FIP
Bob Purkey 79 3.65 288.1 3.87 Bronson Arroyo  52.2 4.61
Joey Jay 73 3.81 273 4.00 Mike Leake  46.2 4.18
Jim O'Toole 65.1 4.05 251.2 3.54 Aaron Harang  46.1 4.86
Jim Maloney --
--
115.1 3.92 Johnny Cueto  42 3.93
Johnny Klippstein 11 4.90 108.2 4.87 Homer Bailey  41.1 4.78
Moe Drabowsky 26 6.27 83 4.83 Francisco Cordero  19.1 4.35
Joe Nuxhall --
--
66 3.01 Nick Masset  18 3.54
Jim Brosnan 15 3.88 64.2 3.04 Micah Owings  16.1 3.26
Ted Wills 5 5.21 61 4.84 Arthur Rhodes 15 2.93
Dave Sisler 9 6.92 43.2 4.34 Mike Lincoln  13 4.72
Bill Henry 8.2 3.62 37.1 3.96 Danny Herrera 10.1 2.58
Sammy Ellis 16.2 6.95 28 6.88 Logan Ondrusek  8 7.39
Bob Miller 5.1 6.56 5.1 6.56 Carlos Fisher  4.1 4.88

Where the current squad will really need to pick up their game is on the pitching staff. It's hard to compare these two eras because bullpen usage has changed so dramatically, but the 1962 starting staff was much better than what we have seen from the 2010 squad. The present version has shown signs of improvement, and I think we can be optimistic, but it is still unlikely we'll see three pitchers like Purkey, Jay, and O'Toole, all of whom pitched over 250 innings with an ERA under 3.80.

Anyway, remember, this is all just for fun. The 2010 Reds aren't going to win 98 games. I don't expect anybody to believe that, but it's still fun to imagine the possibilities. We'll get back to baseball reality tonight. But for the rest of the afternoon, feel free to daydream about the possibilities!

Poll
What do you think is the max number of wins this team can put up this year?
96+
93 votes
91-95
232 votes
86-90
359 votes
81-85
100 votes
76-80
16 votes
75 or less
10 votes

810 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 34 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

that win comparrison chart is pretty eerie ...

Time to bring back Pete .... Pete Mackanin that is.

by joshuar9476 on May 17, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

oh, 91-95 if they stay relatively healthy

Time to bring back Pete .... Pete Mackanin that is.

by joshuar9476 on May 17, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I think I can agree with that.

But Rolen has to be Rested enough to avoid injury and Harang needs to pitch well enough. What happens when Volquez comes back? Will he take Leake’s spot to avoid overusing him?

by chazzilla on May 17, 2010 2:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If this rotation is pitching like it is now

I don’t know if you throw Volquez back in auotmatically if/when he comes back this year. He’s coming off of a major surgery, and shouldn’t be guaranteed a spot when he’s healthy. He definatly could be some great bullpen help for the rest of this year, and if they part ways with Harang he gets his rotation spot back. Bottom line, there shouldn’t be a spot waiting for him when he gets back.

Wake up in the clubhouse feeling like Ken Griffey.

www.nextyearisouryear.blogspot.com

by chazerize on May 17, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a servicable bullpen arm is all we should expect/hope for from Volkie this season.

and that might not happen either.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on May 17, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

chaz responding to chaz

This is my thesis man! This is my closing argument! I CAN STOP READING THE INTERNET!!!

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 17, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

PCU'd

"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki

by GrooveLeg on May 17, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is gonna get confusing FAST.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on May 17, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

very interesting

we dont have any Frank Robinsons here, but we may have 5-6 Wally Posts or Vada Pinsons.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 17, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

and no midseason Jim Maloney

also, Don Blasingame is one of my favorite names in baseball…its just such a 60’s sort of name

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on May 17, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man...

If he puts it together in time to help this team out, we could have a pretty legitimate staff and a strong pen. Think about the post season- We have a pretty sweet top 3, and we could add 2 starters into the bullpen. Hmm.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on May 17, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since we're dreaming, 91-95 wins if:

1-Bruce continues to mature and seriously breaks out, to the tune of a .380 wOBA
2-Votto hits basically like last year
3-Hernanigans don’t regress too much. No way Ryan wOBAs .423 over the season, but if they can combine for .350-.370 wOBA that will do.
4-Leake doesn’t get tired, injured, or suddenly hittable.
5-Cueto and Bailey start to dominate like they are capable, and can find some consistency
6-Stubbs can get comfy and wOBA himself up to almost league average (.315-.330) That will go a long way to making up for the lack of an MVP type.
7-CoCo doesn’t implode

That’s a whole lotta ifs, but hey, let’s be optimistic!

(Great post Slyde)

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on May 17, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't forget #8

Walt flips minor leaguers for an impact bat for left or an impact bat/glove for SS, and/or an arm for the pen

by timb116 on May 17, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

... and somehow managed to be an adequate fielder...

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on May 17, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, crolfer, I loved Adam Dunn...

my tolerance for poor fielding in left is pretty high

by timb116 on May 17, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same, but to be fair, Dunn kind of single-handedly carried our offense...

As long as Yonder’s offense outweighs any defensive problems, I’ll be incredibly happy.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on May 17, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 62 Reds, one of my favorites

As for the graphs, I can’t evaluate, but I do remember some of the characters and some of the events.

In spring training that year, Gene Freese, our third baseman, fractured his ankle and the word from Sports Illustrated was glaring: THE REDS IS DEAD.

This following up on the magnificent 1961 most exciting ever EVER pennant team in history.

The Reds wasn’t dead but the 62 season was a horse race with the lowly Mets and (Cubs) and Colt .45s all sucking sucking, not to mention the Phillies still sucked. The Mets lost 120 games. Result: Three teams — LA, SF and CIN were all upward toward 100 wins, the Dodgers and Giants finally going into a playoff after the Reds were ousted.

Freese had come back by August or so (I was at that return game, and Crosley was packed!) but he didn’t help the team much afterward.

We could have won that pennant, maybe.

But to go into the specifics of games winnable and records obtainable, you MUST factor in the two expansion teams plus the awful product the Cubs put on the field. Somebody has to win a game that somebody loses.

"You’ve got to enjoy the moment — enjoy May 16th." — Dusty Baker

by johnu1 on May 17, 2010 2:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I think a 3rd baseman named Freese should get hurt this year.

That would significantly help us against the Cards. That guy kills us.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on May 17, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

A side note on Nux

He pitched his entire career with Cincy except for 1961. He came back in 1962. What this means is the only year he wasn’t with the Reds was the only time in his career that they won a pennant. Sad but true.

"You’ve got to enjoy the moment — enjoy May 16th." — Dusty Baker

by johnu1 on May 17, 2010 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

A+++++++++++ GREAT POST! WILL READ AGAIN! BLOG WITH CONFIDENCE!

"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki

by GrooveLeg on May 17, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I definitely think Arroyo will hit 280 IP this year.

He’s at 52.7 already, and he has 26 more starts or so. All he needs to do is average 8.7 IP per start the rest of the way, and he’s there!

Great post Slyde, lots of fun. I hope this first place thing lasts more than a day, because I feel freaking awesome about it today. :)
-j

by JinAZ on May 17, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions  

what's the modern, 5-man-staff, IP record?

CC pitched 252.1 that year he was traded to Milwaukee.
Randy Johnson pitched 272.1 in 1999.

Anyone else?

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on May 17, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Johnson is the most since 1990

Dave Stewart threw 275 in 1988. Roger Clemens had 281 in 1987. Blyleven had 293 in 1985. I’m not sure if all of those were pure 5-man rotations like today.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on May 17, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dwight Gooden 276.2 (1985)

Dave Stewart 275.2 (1988), Fernando Valenzuela 272.1 (1985)

These were some of the biggest horses I could remember, but there were still three better seasons since 1987.

by kcgard2 on May 17, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

10th in IP in '62 was Johnny Podres with 255

That would have led the NL last year by more than 20. And the run scoring environment wasn’t that different, either.

by ken on May 17, 2010 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

1st place is so freaking sweet.

I took lots of solace in rubbing that in all of my Cardinal fan friends’ faces today. Maybe it won’t last, but hey- while it does, I’m gonna relish it.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on May 17, 2010 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

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