A Way Too Early and Semi-pointless Look At the Scott Rolen Trade
I've seen a lot of media attention being paid to Scott Rolen lately and I think it's totally justified and deserved. The guy is hitting, playing above average defense, and being the quiet, veteran leader some Reds fans have been pining for since Rich Aurilia left town.
I saw one of the commenters compile some win/loss numbers in the comments section of an article or game thread that has a comments section (my memory sucks... I think it was Red Poodle in a game thread, but that's probably wrong), so I took the time and liberty to take it a step further and update everyone on W/L and ‘where-are-they-now’ since the trade went down.
TOTAL W/L SINCE SCOTT ROLEN JOINED THE TEAM: 52-40
with = Scott Rolen appeared in the game
without = Scott Rolen did not appear in the game whether due to injury or day off
2010 with: 19-9
2010 without: 0-4
2009 with: 27-13
2009 without: 6-14
TOTAL with: 46-22
TOTAL without: 6-18
Not too shabby...
What are the other pieces of this polarizing trade doing as of this moment?
Edwin Encarnacion went on the 15-day DL (retroactive to April 15) with a sore shoulder. Prior to that, he homered once and knocked in 5 in 37 plate appearances. He slashed .219/.270/.406, but he did have 3 doubles. Eddie is playing full extended spring games so he could be ready to rejoin the Blue Jays within the next two weeks. He will likely begin playing Minor League rehab games with Class A Dunedin soon.
When Encarnacion was placed on 15-day DL, Jose Bautista shifted from right field to third base, and Fred Lewis and Travis Snider moved to left and right field, respectively. It is not clear how Toronto will handle Encarnacion's return. [Blue Jays GM Alex] Anthopoulos was not ready to say whether Encarnacion would immediately move back into a starting role at third.
"Right now, we haven't even talked about it," Anthopoulos said. "The team's playing so well. Bautista's done a good job, Fred Lewis has done a good job. It's one of those things, you cross that bridge when you come to it. The team's playing well. It's a great problem to have."
I always liked Edwin so if his current team isn’t too high on him, I hope he gets the opportunity to play regularly elsewhere.
Zach Stewart is far from where I thought this 23-year-old would be this season posting a 6.84 ERA in 6 starts for the AA New Hampshire Fisher Cats. He has given up 20 runs (all earned) in 26.1 innings pitched with 4.8 BB/9, however he is striking out 6.2 per 9. Seeing that, and taking into account Mike Leake’s, Aroldis Chapman’s, and Travis Wood’s level of play, it turns out that I don’t really miss the kid a certain Louisville Bats relief pitcher said will be the next Huston Street (source, one of my softball games last summer). Though we wouldn't have had much room for him to be in the immediate plans, it still would have been nice to keep building the stable of young pitchers who were on the verge of breaking into the bigs. Best of luck, Zach.
Josh Roenicke is the other piece of the trade and I still wish we could have found a way to keep this fireballer. Despite one bad game where he gave up 4 earned runs in 1.1 innings of work against the White Sox, he has posted bagels out of the ‘pen in 6.2 IP since his call-up on April 28 (he even pitched 2.1 innings of scoreless ball against the Red Sox on Monday night). With Carlos Fisher and Logan Ondrusek indicating that they are able to pitch at this level, I guess I don't miss Roenicke THAT much, although I think this guy is going to turn into one hell of a set-up man.
So what I’m left with is a trade that, so far, seems to be favoring the Reds quite a bit. We obviously won’t be able to tell just how good we made out, but at this moment, Rolen appears to be a steal. Regardless of what his offensive numbers look like, the team wins when he plays which is good enough for me. Here's to hoping the geezer stays healthy because I think it's obvious that the team is going to struggle if he happens to wake up one morning with a stiff back.
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Comments
this is way too early
and semi-pointless
by Charlie Scrabbles on May 13, 2010 1:29 PM EDT reply actions
I think it's only a little too early.
And nearly pointless.
What, me? Being negative? No. Never.
by Paul Householder on May 13, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's a little too late
and only semi-pointful
I like how you appended a "2" to the end of your handle.
Very classy.
No amount of prosperity is sufficient to eliminate all misfortune, and sloth is impervious to opportunity.
Just a matter of time
Before ewok2 rears its ugly head
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on May 13, 2010 4:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He sucks worse than anyone in the history of baseball.
In the history of America. In the history of sucking!
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
who ever sucked....
"The Asian language is very different than ares." -- Justin007000
by jch24 on May 13, 2010 6:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
at sucking!
"The Asian language is very different than ares." -- Justin007000
by jch24 on May 13, 2010 6:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this site needs more Simpsons references
"The Asian language is very different than ares." -- Justin007000
by jch24 on May 13, 2010 6:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wonder if the Blue Jays will try EE at first base.
They wouldn’t have to worry about his throwing, and Lyle Overbay has been just awful so far this season.
No one respects the Resposter's time buffer anymore
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on May 13, 2010 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
dude, you got almost 2 hours
that’s more than you gave me.
Sheesh, guys been on staff for 3 weeks and suddenly he thinks he runs the place.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
But I'm only being a dick!
I wasn’t serious… and it’s also not a stellar Reposter. I’m glad to see GrooveLeg on the front page. I’ve been enjoying his contributions from afar.
Still, the Reposters Union Local 69 will probably file a grievance.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on May 13, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Just being a dick right back
I don’t care. I could fire you…if I wanted to. But that would be more work for me.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
I hope you at least appreciate
how I’ve been “letting the boss win” in the fantasy league. I started Dallas Braden last week and still lost by about a hundred points. But tha-a-a-a-t’s my life!
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on May 13, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If it makes you feel better, I think you're both dicks
by ken on May 13, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you
That’s all I needed to hear
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on May 13, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't need to hear it
but it’s still nice to know.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
I go through my day wondering
“Do people really think I’m a dick? Am I doing enough?” This is sweet, sweet validation.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on May 13, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm in the same boat
I gotta see if I can bring more to the table to remove all doubt of my dick-ishness
by Highlifeman21 on May 16, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Local 69 is hanging you out to dry on this one
we’ve had a rough relationship with ownership these past (passed? i never know which is correct in this instance) few months and we cant really afford to make waves. no worries though, you’ll probably just be suspended with pay for a week or so. hooray for union discipline!
by Charlie Scrabbles on May 13, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah?
well, i still get the perks. $100 gas card. cant put a price on that!
by Charlie Scrabbles on May 13, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
don't look at me
i had no idea this would go on the main page.
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
it's an off-day special
needed something to fill the afternoon. You qualified.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
The only thing I'm taking from this is that obc should just shut the hell up about original content
Way to go, GrooveLeg! DIYcore!
by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Way back in the winter
I think it was Slyde who did a sabre-tooth on the Rolen deal and asserted that the Reds had come out pretty well on it. The whole of the data tossed me for a loop. It was the first time I’d actually had a chance to evaluate WAR and other statistical phenomena.
Oakland A’s pitcher Dallas Braden just pitched a perfect game against the Rays.
Eh....
Sure, the Reds have a much better record with Rolen in the lineup than any other 3B (or with EdE in the lineup); he’s a much better player than anyone else the reds have put there since Joe Randa.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
Didn't Stallone play Randa in the movie?
Oakland A’s pitcher Dallas Braden just pitched a perfect game against the Rays.
Didn't Randa play The Joker in the Batman movies?
Calmer than you are.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on May 13, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Help me Randa
would be the less obvious answer here.
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
Randa
Eats, shoots, and leaves.
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on May 14, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
EastMan!
He came out of the East to do battle with the amazing RANDAAAA!
by Brendanukkah on May 14, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
ZOMG a 23-year struggled in 6 starts in double-A!!!!111!11!!1!
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
no, but I'm also not in the business of trying to act like I'm right after 6 starts
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
So, that's the difference between us!?
‘Course, I didn’t need these 6 starts. I said it was ridiculous last year and I stand by it*
*Until Rolen’s inevitable injury, a 5 and 23 skid, and Zach Stewart’s promotion to middle relief for the big league club. At that point, I’d appreciate if we forget this ever happened.
Still! “Future Cy Young winner” still makes me cringe……and gloat…..and be a dick
You never needed "Future Cy Young winner" as an excuse before.
by RedsMasochist on May 13, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let me check the scoreboard......
Yep timb116 with 1 assist.
by RedsMasochist on May 13, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
GOOOOOOOOOAL!
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on May 13, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet. I figured I deserved it of late
Been annoyed at all the pessimism lately and was being a little too…..what did BK say……sand-paper-y for anybody’s good
Zach Stewart: Future Cy Young winner
This was/is my favorite running joke around the Reds blogosphere
by Highlifeman21 on May 16, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I never understood the manlove for Zach Stewart
He went from off the prospect radar, to maybe our 3rd or 4th best SP prospect, to the bestest prospect we’ve ever had in our entire organization and ever will have in our entire organization when we traded him for Rolen. I didn’t get it. Seemed like a virtually unknown commodity to proven tenured MLB winner.
I was more upset we got rid of Roenicke in that trade, b/c I thought he could down the line become our closer or a high-leverage situation guy.
by Highlifeman21 on May 17, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Berkman has reached on 8 straight PA
and the Astros lead 1-0 in the third.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Benches are clearing, but I can't figure out why
no fisticuffs yet.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Carpenter and Carlos Lee are in on it
Carp is bitching about something. Big surprise.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Carping - marked by or inclined to querulous and often perverse criticism.
Naggingly critical or complaining. Tending to make petty complaints; fault-finding.
by RedsMasochist on May 13, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I gave Berkman some of my smooth, slippery balls earlier this week
he must’ve slipped them into the mix for this game.
Stupid whiny Carpenter.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
that would make me whine too
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
He's a whiny guy
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on May 13, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously. He yells and whines at everyone.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
3 run homer!
Hunter Pence!
SUCK IT, CARP!!!!!
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
what puzzles me
… how is it the Birds are having trouble scoring runs, as was suggested?
Don’t they have Pujols?
That ought to be worth 4 a game.
Oakland A’s pitcher Dallas Braden just pitched a perfect game against the Rays.
When Pujols struggles, their offense just shuts down.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Oh, that explains it.
whew.
Oakland A’s pitcher Dallas Braden just pitched a perfect game against the Rays.
Not exactly a drought
wonder what the announcer meant by that … if 18 is enough.
Oakland A’s pitcher Dallas Braden just pitched a perfect game against the Rays.
Interesting the MLB commercial break
won’t let me mute the volume.
Oakland A’s pitcher Dallas Braden just pitched a perfect game against the Rays.
i'll say it again, just for the record
trades should only be judged based on the information available at the time of the trade. whether any of the players involved play well afterward is not germane to that judgment.
by Charlie Scrabbles on May 13, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree'd
The only trade that matters in this context is the one that sent Frank Robinson to the Orioles.
Nobody here is old enough to still be pissed about that one.
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
Are you saying that time traveling into the future to see how the trade works out isn't fair?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
No that would not be fair
because you would buy a lottery ticket right after you picked up the newspaper.
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
So, later when Pujols wins that danged Cardinal game, do you think the Cards will look back at
having two on and no out with a 100 million dollar man at the plate and getting nothing as a turning point?
Bud Norris - 68 pitches through 6 scoreless.
Astros still lead 4-0.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Not as good as our guy Homer did.
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
I'll admit I'm starting to sway some on my criticism of this trade
extending him was another big factor, would have driven me crazy to give up as much as they did and only get him for a little over a year. still not sure why it was so important to do it at the trade deadline last year, and I still cringe from the reports that walt was considering alonso straight-up for him. water under the bridge now I guess though, I enjoy watching him play.
I am not so sure about Rolen's defense being that great anymore
Though it’s hard to think otherwise with Chris Welsh having an orgasm every time Rolen makes even routine plays.
UZR agrees it seems
though he still posted good UZR rates the last two years
Despite Welsh's enthusiasm for Rolen's defense...
I have to agree that he has taken a big step backwards with his defense. His range isn’t what it used to be and I think he has like 4 errors so far (not a crazy amount, granted, but not “automatic” by any means as I remember him being). I guess I just got spoiled watching him pick it for so many years AGAINST the Reds. On the flip side, his arm is so darn accurate — a pleasant change from years past. I mean Joey never even has to reach. It hits him dead center every time. All in all, he is what you would expect from a former Gold Glover who is starting to show some wear on this tires….and that is still pretty darn good.
BIS, +/-, and Total Zone also agree, actually
That’s a lot of different data sets, all pointing the same way. It is still early though,
Maybe he just had a rough April defensively.
He’s got a lot of games left to pick it up.
No amount of prosperity is sufficient to eliminate all misfortune, and sloth is impervious to opportunity.
I meant last year and the year before
obviously this year’s is completely useless
as a clarification
a +5 rating is still very good, just that his defense has dipped from his GG days is all I was saying. I wouldn’t classify that as “not great” necessarily, but it could possibly indicate a loss of range. He’s still a plus defensive third baseman.
Just from the eye test, his range seems very average
He’s generally solid when he gets to the ball, but he’s not in the conversation for best in the league anymore is my impression. Ignoring the various metrics, you can see that his reactions are not as good as they were.
1/2 game
I had forgotten the Birds played today and I was thinking that winning 2 would leave us tied.
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
that is pretty surprising
considering where we were not too long ago. I think Votto is right, though, and it’s a bit too early to be scoreboard watching. Nevertheless, taking 2 of 3 from the Cards would be brilliant.
Side note about the game today. I saw this in a postgame article:
Lance Berkman singled in the go-ahead run in the third inning. One batter later, Carlos Lee popped up to shortstop and slammed his bat in frustration. Carpenter took exception and said something to Lee, and the benches emptied. The next batter, Hunter Pence, drilled a mistake pitch from a still-angry Carpenter into the center-field seats for a three-run homer.
Did that really mess Carpenter up that much? Maybe we should have Gomes clear the benches against him every game.
Is it just me, or has the whole "respect the game and it's unwritten rules" thing reached a fever pitch this season?
Obviously the A-Rod/Braden thing was the most publicized, but it seems like every time I turn around I’m hearing about someone getting pissy that someone else disrespected them or the game. First it was Carpenter with our balls, then the Mets bitching about something we did, then the Cubs wanting to bean Gomes for (gasp!) showing emotion during a game, now the Pirates announcers moaning about Cueto running too slow on a HR.
Those are just instances involving the Reds. This thing with Carpenter today just adds to it (and really, is there a bigger crybaby in the game right now than him?) I’m not sure what I’m even trying to say, except, C’MON PEOPLE! Lighten up! This isn’t golf. Players should be able to show a bit of emotion, or look for a second at a 450 foot homer, or jog a bit slowly around the bases on a teammate’s homer. Get over yourselves!
/rant over
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I hear you on all that
I posted last night, in a ranty mood, that the Cards seem to complain the most. Granted, and ironically, I get angry that Dusty doesn’t complain at all (there are times when he needs to defend his players and show some emotion) but the Cards are getting out of hand. john did point out that some of the quotes are being taken out of context, or the players are asked leading question that result in the whiney answers, but stuff like what Carpenter did there, and Pujols did to Massett is on the field and getting pretty silly.
If you think the Cardinals are bad now
imagine all the rent garments and gnashing of teeth if The Reds take 2 of 3 or even(ghasp!) sweep those poo-jols.
by Im_a_fun_haver on May 13, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorta
There’s a 2000 memo from the league forbidding the use of electronic devices to steal signs. Sign-stealing itself is not prohibited by any written rule or directive, afaik.
Well then...
The real question is… did those binoculars have electronic gadgets? Do the Phillies have military technology? ARE THEY PLANNING A HOSTILE TAKEOVER!?!?!?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Everything is hostile in Philly
Ever been, crolf?
by Highlifeman21 on May 16, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
the rule book’s right here. Show me the rule against stealing signs.
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
you were pretty adamant about that rule existing
im just excited to learn something new. But I need you to show me the way!
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
Peter Frampton doesn't need you to show him the way
He only wants you to.
by Brendanukkah on May 14, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not all those are unwritten rules
Rubbing with mud is written rules. Carp today has nothing to do with them either. He was just being himself.
This makes me feel better
At least Tracy is clarifying the main rule.
DENVER (AP) — Rockies manager Jim Tracy is still fuming over the Philadelphia Phillies using binoculars in the bullpen.
Before Colorado played Washington Thursday, Tracy took exception to a comment he read in which Phillies manager Charlie Manuel was quoted as saying "keep crying."
Tracy said: "We don’t cry here. I want to make that clear right now. We work very hard."
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
Details once again ruining our dreams he John?
The real question is:
Since Chris Dickerson has been on the DL and with Gomes and Nix splitting time in Left field, Slowcabwreck leading off and BP in the 2 slot the Reds have been on a winning streak of monumental proportions. In 500 words or more compare and contrast these events with ‘A pointless and way too early look at the Scott Rolen trade’.
The 2010 Reds – "It could have been a lot worse"
by RedsMasochist on May 4, 2010 8:47 PM EDT
What no takers on my thoughts that the Reds surge has a lot to do with the above
(and some decent pitching).
The 2010 Reds – "It could have been a lot worse"
by RedsMasochist on May 4, 2010 8:47 PM EDT
Hell, this is a better batting order than we had earlier
I just wish we’d have done this against a contender so we could prove something.
Then again, Pittsburgh is still a contender until they aren’t.
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
I thought you liked C Dick!
He really was struggling at lead off, though. We need to find a permanent solution to the lead off issue, and I don’t think Cabrera is it. He has done a nice job so far I just don’t think he can sustain that, partly because of his age. Dusty keeps talking about his aching legs. I don’t know what to say about the C Dick disappearance except that maybe it gives Gomes more playing time?
I don't what it is about Dickerson...he seems like a really talented player, a green activist and is still young.
But his griping about not being the starter annoyed me and his treatment is Sister D annoyed me and now that he ison the DL and things have taken off it makes me wonder if he’s a CC (clubhouse curmudgeon)…
Crapperrra, despite my concerns about his lamo fielding, has done decently at the lead off position.Better than anyone else Dusty has tried since he’s been the manager. I’d love to see Jannish play more AND if his good hitting were to continue Hell I’d lead him off…but I don’t think we’ll ever know…for some reason unknown by the intelligent world, Dusty doesn’t hold PJ in very high esteem.
The 2010 Reds – "It could have been a lot worse"
by RedsMasochist on May 4, 2010 8:47 PM EDT
I think PJ tends to not hit very well
which may have some impact on the manager’s decision not to let him play.
But I'm here to tell you, this is actually a very good base running team. You may not believe me, which is why I've brought a chart to back me up: -- Slyde
I bet PJ ends up with a higher OPS than OCab
Which would nullify any excuse Dusty could possibly fathom for not letting him play
C Dick seems like a perfect spokesman type (talented, knowledgeable etc)
but he keeps getting injured (and had a bad start). I saw him say in a C Trent article, I think, that he hates being known as the injury guy, but it keeps happening. Maybe that has made him a bit bitter and led to some of his comments before the season. It was stupid of him to call Dusty out like that (about starting). C Dick backed up his desire to play with a strong spring, but it didn’t translate to the regular season. Hopefully, when he comes back, he has everything sorted out.
I forgot to mention--nice post
even if it is a semi-pointless ;) Not sure if I inspired you or not—I don’t think I brought up any actual data in the game thread, but I did mention that I think Rolen was directly responsible for several wins this year (one against the Dodgers, one against the Marlins for certain). While not too much stock can be put into the W/L data (it would be pretty extreme to draw some correlation between Rolen in particular and the big improvement in wins), but it was interesting to read and confirms these are “Scott Rolen’s Reds”! I can say that, despite my initial concerns, I think Rolen has been a very positive addition to the team. I feel more confident with him at third and batting cleanup. I hope the situation continues. Rolen’s power has been pretty good and he gives professional ABs (and he doesn’t strikeout a whole lot).

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