Aaron Harang tabbed for his fifth straight Opening Day start for the Reds
by Slyde on Mar 3, 2010 11:17 AM EST
in News
284 comments
Dusty Baker announced today that Aaron Harang will be the starter for game one of the 2010 season against the Cardinals. It will be Harang's fifth straight start, matching Pete Donohue (1923-1927) and Mario Soto (1982-1986) for the longest Reds streak. Soto is the only Reds pitcher to start more than 5 Opening Day games. He also started in 1988.
Dusty Baker realizes that this isn't the choice everyone would have made. "I know it probably won't be a popular decision," Baker told Mark Sheldon. Dusty needn't worry. The people that are opposed to this move are the ones that think that pitcher wins are the exact same thing as team wins. Harang deserved a much better fate than he received last season.
As for Harang's feeling on the subject, C Trent Rosecrans relayed this story:
Harang said he went to Dusty Baker and said, "I want the ball."
You have to like that determination. Harang knows what it means to start on Opening Day in Cincinnati. He also knows that he needs to step up and be the man if this team is going to be successful. He may not be as good as he was in 2005-2006, but if he can just be a strong innings eater, the Reds could do some damage in the NL Central.
The Reds are just 1-3 in Harang's previous 4 Opening Day starts, with Harang taking the decision in all 4 games.
Baker also announced the starting rotation for the beginning of the season. Following Harang will be Johnny Cueto, Bronson Arroyo, Homer Bailey, and the winner of the race for the 5th spot. I like this plan as it separates Cueto and Bailey, who both need to prove that they can gobble up innings the way that Harang and Arroyo do when they are on. Also, this means that Cueto will be starting on Opening Night (Game 2). That's great because I like to watch Johnny pitch!
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Bronson didn't want it.
Cueto doesn’t have the VPnes.
Bailey hasn’t earned it.
Harang had no choice but to ask for the ball, otherwise Dudsy would have started Mike Lincoln.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
Actually
Decision on Harang came after Arroyo confirmed to Baker he’d rather not start Opening Day.#reds
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Thats what I said Bronson doesn't want to pitchopening day = it.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
Does that mean we get him Game 2?
Oh Joy… (Like it should matter to me because it’s 90% likely I won’t be in attendance..)
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
Nope, we get Cueto
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
it doesn't matter
I just call to hear his voice on his outgoing message. It’s like I’m right there with him.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
CG MACHINE!!!
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 3, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
YES!
In related news, Francisco Cordero, Arthur Rhodes, Nick Masset, Jared Burton, Daniel Ray Herrera, and Micah Owings all stopped by Dusty’s office this morning to request a vacation day on April 5.
by the finest muffins on Mar 3, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
They should all go to the parade together, hit up Kings Island, and sit in the moon deck for the game
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
herrera wouldn't be able to ride anything
Sonny my pitched my wild
by GrooveLeg on Mar 3, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd.
That was a little funny.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Good move.
I think there’s a lot of pressure associated with an opening day start and I think Harang is better suited to handle that pressure than anyone else.
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 3, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions
Just a thought
Harang knows what it means to start on Opening Day in Cincinnati. He also knows that he needs to step up and be the man if this team is going to be successful.
I think I admire the ego that asserts this sort of thing, as if bucking it up is some sort of glorious quest (all sing along, "to dream the impossible dream …)
But all of that is, to me, a truck load of BS. As a man, I admire courage and grit, determination, all that John Wayne horse poop. As a baseball fan, I’d rather our best guy get the ball on OD.
Tradition aside, how on Earth can we possibly say that’s Harang after a week in camp?
Then again … Dusty has his lineup Xeroxed 161 times.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I think it's because Arroyo told him he didn't want any part of OD
and it was between the two of them.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
so it ain't about guts and determination
Somebody has to pitch.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I vote for a soft tossing righty with a fast ball at 45 mph
and a slurve that hits the gun around 38mph.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
well, gee, I think we have a guy in the minors
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
and yes, we have a scouting report on this guy
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Lefty slow pitch guys are impossible to hit.
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 3, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
I did it for a living.
Guys hated to face me because I am a southie.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Why are they/you called southpaws anyway?
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 3, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
historically first base was on the left side of the infield
So their pitching arms are on the south side of the field.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 3, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd
because this explanation, the way it is stated, makes no sense.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
actually, the way ballparks are supposedly situated
with west being behind home plate, south is toward first base. That is the explanation.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I understand that
but that is not what his justin said.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
ha ha ... yeah
historically first base was on the right side of the infield, and everyone knows that! It was changed just prior to the DH rule.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
change that to
first base was on the south side of the infield, so pitchers arms on are the south side of the field.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Nope, too late
There are no do-overs in baseball.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
What about when it rains in the third inning?
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Rule 12 (a) Sec. (1.) 4a
“…in the event of rain in the third inning, the tarp shall be placed from right to left, (or north to south) whereupon the umpires will jurisdict until further notice.”
Nothing in the rule says anything about a do-over.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
He said 'jurisdict.'
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
One of the lost episodes
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
how about a cry, then?
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
crying is OK
but just this one time.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Classic.
Rinse, wash, repeat.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
wikipedia
A left-handed individual may be known as a southpaw, particularly in a sports context. It is widely accepted that the term originated in the United States, in the game of baseball.19 Ballparks are often designed so that batters are facing east, so that the afternoon or evening sun does not shine in their eyes.20 This means that left-handed pitchers are throwing with their south-side arm.21 The Oxford English Dictionary lists a non-baseball citation for “south paw”, meaning a punch with the left hand, as early as 1848,22 just three years after the first organized baseball game, with the note “(orig. U.S., in Baseball).”23
In boxing, someone who boxes left-handed is frequently referred to as southpaw. The term is also used to refer to a stance in which the boxer places the right foot in front of the left, so it is possible for a right-handed boxer to box with a southpaw stance. Most boxers, southpaw or otherwise, tend to train with sparring partners who adopt an orthodox stance which gives southpaws an advantage. Manny Pacquiao is an example of a southpaw (although he writes with his right hand). In the popular boxing film series Rocky, the main character Rocky Balboa is a ‘southpaw’.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
the question is ...
Did the term originate from baseball and was borrowed by boxing? I think maybe that is so.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
the wiki entry
says the baseball etymology is most widely accepted.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
all laughing aside
I did pitch slowpitch and a lot of the batters said they didn’t like to face me because my pitch tailed in them. I got a lot of mileage out of that.
All until the big dudes from Peoria came in with their loaded bats. Trust me, a 6-6, 250 guy does not care if you are a lefty or not.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
same here
I lived off the left to right tailing action and loved it when the wind was blowing left to right. I could actually make a softball “curve” then.
"They're the ones that gave you the keys, they can’t get upset when you crash the car" -- 'tHan on my being a mod
by jch24 on Mar 3, 2010 2:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
so what are the odds
we can turn RR into a softball nostalgia board?
I could talk about the day my Beer Monsters scored 9 in the first against the East St. Louis Stars … oh, the greatest game in Beer Monster history that day!!
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I recall watching some Cincinnati Suds on TV when I was young.
Now that was some softball!
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
I could talk about my college intramural glory days.
I was 1B for Fo’ Shizzle, back-to-back-to-back champs at Asbury College.
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 3, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
You went to Asbury?
I went to the music festival they had there for 3 straight years in HS
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
Yeah, graduated in '05.
Ichthus has always been a good time. I haven’t been since I’ve been out.
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 4, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
Nor does he need a loaded bat!
I loved southpaws when I hit….but that’s because I slapped the ball the other all the time. Wait for little lefty lou to try and throw that first strike down the middle, scoot up in the box and slap it down the right field line.
I was thinking that this guy is the best candidate
His face is hidden so that bloggers from other teams don’t try to steal him.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
I know associate opening day with Harang
I think he’s still got it. In 2009 his K/9 was 7.87 which isn’t as high as it once one but still a pretty spiffy. He still has his velocity, he just lost a little bite on his slider last year. I am feeling good about the big guy this year, and I can’t wait to see him face off against Carpenter next month.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
re: "know associate opening day with Harang"
I get it!
The K is a strikeout!
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
glad you got the joke!
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
A little gem from Hal
His numbers indicate that Aaron Harang might not deserve to be the Opening Day starter and that maybe the guy shouldn’t even be guaranteed a spot in the rotation.
I really don’t get how anybody can look at Harang’s numbers and argue that doesn’t deserve a spot in Cincinnati’s rotation.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
How can he not see that?
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
booooooo!!
shame on you for picking on a poor old blind man.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don't argue with the premise
But just which numbers are we looking at?
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Hal puts a lot of stock in wins and loses
he and I had a little argument last year and he told me something like ERA isn’t a great stat but wins and loses are important.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
well, he's right generally
In basic principle, it only matters if you win.
1-0 or 24-23, all the same.
(sigh) if it were all that simple.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
True, but if one pitcher gives up those 23 runs,
his win kind of sucks and is meaningless.
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 3, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
meaningless from a stats point
W > L
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I know.
I’m just trying to give examples of how other stats still matter to me. Which I why I think Harang is still very relevant to the team. He’s like Tim Tebow with so many intangibles going on.
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 3, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Well, fwiw
If all our guys went 20-0, we wouldn’t be debating any of this. Since most of the time, we hover around .490 as a W-L percentage, I’d say some ERA and ground ball outs would matter more. So I don’t debate you. I just found the notion amusing, is all.
Harang is still VERY relevant.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I got interested enough to look it up...
Since 1954 the most runs a pitcher has given up while getting the win was 10, done 3 times, most recently by Russ Ortiz.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
6 wins
he sucks.
duh.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
If it's that simplistic for you,
then Dusty’s your man.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
now, if we could get someone
who knew how to put up Game-winning RBIs, we’d be set.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
but it would all be okay
if we could just get some Holds out of our relievers.
Definitely a good argument, if I do say so myself.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Say I just want to compliment you on your sig...
Very nice…
BTW there a lot of ways to score as well…many of these ‘signals’ were used before the invention of flight control towers.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
i think of all possible explanations
this one ranks right between “Harang was infected with a reverse-vampiric germ over the winter and now cannot pitch night games” and “Harang is the REAL smokemonster from Lost” in order of likelihood.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Spoiler Alert!
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
I wouldn't be so sure.
Even if Bailey and Cueto step up this year, losing both Harang and Arroyo leave question marks in the rotation come 2011, especially with Volquez still on the mend from Tommy John Surgery. I’m guessing if they both pitch well both options will be picked up and one will be traded.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Options
Harang’s option next year is $14M, that’s a million dollars a loss, Arroyo more likely at $11M, but I don’t know, alot depends on their seasons and development of Chapman, Leake, Wood, etc. Anybody out there think Massett is a natural starter (he’s got a lotta pitches to come out of the pen)
I like Masset where he is
I don’t think he’ll be anywhere near as successful in the rotation.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Massett has been sucessful in the bullpen, no reason to mess with that
If Harang can throw 220 innings and keep an ERA between 3.5 and 4.5 I’ll keep him for $14M. The guy is a horse, since 2006 he has averaged 6.5 innings per start, meaning more often than not he is getting the Reds into the 7th.
I’ll take those innings, especially with a staff of mostly young guys, nice to have a horse who you can give the ball to and reasonably expect him to complete 7 innings.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
because his replacement would give us a 10-33 record.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
not if his name is Brandon Webb
:)
by the finest muffins on Mar 3, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
well, yeah ... of course
but what if it was Chuck Stobbs?
huh?
huh?
Come on, defend that one!!
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Yes, at last a defense.
You and this guy …
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
because he was missused in 2008
he was trending up when he had has appendectomy. At the time he got sick he had pitched more innings and a lower ERA than Arroyo. He ran off a string of nice starts before he got sick. He was also as unlucky as Arroyo was lucky last year.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
I debate luck a little
For established pitchers, the parts of their game that they can control are what give them a chance to win. I never got the sense that Harang didn’t have that control in either of the past two seasons, W-L record aside.
The aspect of luck would be in getting enough runs. That just transfers the control over to another part of the team. The Reds have addressed that on several levels, with bad hitters finding new addresses.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
W's and L's
Teams that win pennants care about wins and losses, throwing the W-L record aside is for the rest.
W/L record for a pitcher and W/L record for a team is not the same thing
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Check with old Hoss Radbourne about that one.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Dude pitched 73 complete games in 1884
It’s because he was possessed by the spirits
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
their other guy was the one possessed with spirits
“Say, Hoss, can you pick it up for me today? I had a bit too much gin last night.”
“Sure thing, Slyde. I know what you’re goin’ through, buddy!”
“Thanks. Don’t let ’em get too many guys on base. You know how that hurts your ERA.”
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
pitcher wins <> team wins
they are completely different beasts
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
if you wanna play blind man
go walk with the shepherd. as for me, my eyes are wide fuckin’ open.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Definitely a good argument
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Then you stubbornly suspend cognitive reason.
Seriously, this stuff isn’t hard.
A Pete Rose by any other name would still smell of cheap hookers and pinetar.
Awesome.
Red Reporter: Don’t bring that weak-ass old-timey Hall of Fame beat writer bullshit in here.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup.
The Earth is not flat. It is not the center of the Universe. Gravity is still technically a theory. And old men can be as full of shit as anybody.
A Pete Rose by any other name would still smell of cheap hookers and pinetar.
i've been saying that for years
Hal is overrated and outdated.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 3, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Name a better everyday beat writer over the last decade.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 3, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
I really don't like any of them
but I prefer Fay, he at least knows what OPS is.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 3, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
you just like Fay because you two share the same aptitude for spelling!
by Daedalus on Mar 4, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
so rec'd!
I prefer Hal, FWIW. He just has a really nice turn of phrase sometimes. And a nice rhythm that makes it easy to read. Fay…not so much.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
A couple of things I noticed in researching the book
Fay used to be a really good writer before he got the Reds beat full-time. The few pieces he had back then about the Reds were interesting and insightful.
And Hal was the man. It looks like there were 4 or 5 regular beat writers on the Reds beat in 1990 – Hal (DDN), Mike Paolercio (Enquirer), Jerry Crasnick (Post), Bob Hunter (Columbus Dispatch), and maybe one or two others filling in at the Enquirer and Post. Hal was consistently leaps and bounds above everyone else, even when they’d tell the exact same story. Hal’s quotes always seemed to have an extra phrase from the speaker that everyone dropped or weirdly spliced around. And the story around the text was almost always humorous and colorful, rather than just stating facts.
I didn’t really appreciate Hal until I had to sit and read the same stories 3 or 4 different times. By the end of the book, we were usually just going to Hal’s stories first for the details and quotes. They almost always delivered.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
by Slyde on Mar 4, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Plus Hal said the Reds would finish fifth last season
because they had no offense and he was basically right (4th vs 5th? Who the hell cares).
he may not be able to rationalize exactly the way he thinks about things, but his intuitive sense is still dead on*
*Obviously, rationality, numbers, and math are superior to “intuition.” Just saying with Hal is actually works
Can we replace our BB-Ref sponsor tag with this?
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
You mean.... you ARE Hal on this one...
GASP!
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Harang was also last in the league in defensive help
some of that was his fault – high line drive rate – but some of it was just dumb luck – the balls going where the fielders weren’t.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
agree'd again
another aspect of the team addressing parts of control that the pitcher needs. We have done some things in that area, esp. at third base.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
definitely
and I doubt he suffers the same fate in 2010. It was just one of those odd coincidences. The team defense was good for everybody but him. It happens.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
I cited on another thread
the almost insane swings that Steve Carlton (ahem, a southpaw) had with the Cards, then with the Phils. I suppose somebody has stats-racked that guy’s career. It would be interesting to overlay that onto some modern guys, both successful and not so much.
See what parts of his game mattered the most.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
first glance
he had a bit of a freak season in 1972. Higher strikeouts, lower walks, and lower HR totals compared to surrounding seasons. His numbers came back to his previous levels in 1973. He also got less run support in 1973.
I’m sure it’s more than that, but that’s my first impression. He was just abnormally good in 1972.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
winning half the team's games
would qualify as freak, even in the days of Old Hoss.
I cannot recall who was on those teams and could look it up if I didn’t have to leave for work.
All I remember about 1972 is that Hal McRae came up three feet short.
Later!
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Of course not.
Stay on point. Weak argument tricks do not work here.
A Pete Rose by any other name would still smell of cheap hookers and pinetar.
by Pops Daniels on Mar 3, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ba-ZINGA!
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 3, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I do
Heck, I’m comparable to Carlton. For example: “bbjones pitches MUCH MORE POORLY than Steve Carlton.”
I see your weak argument trick, and raise you an absurd strawman.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
I also think Harang tended to face a tougher opposing pitcher
which deflated his run support. I don’t have anything too empirical, but here’s who he faced last year:
Johan Santana
Ian Snell
Wandy Rodriguez
Carlos Zambrano
Wandy Rodriguez
Josh Johnson
Kyle Lohse
Kevin Correia
Jamie Moyer
Wandy Rodriguez
Dave Bush
Chris Carpenter
Shairon Martis
Jair Jurrjens
Mark Buerhle
Jeremy Sowers
Doug Davis
JA Happ
Mike Pelfrey
Manny Parra
Randy Wells
Mat Latos
Randy Wells
Matt Cain
Garrett Mock
Matt Cain
Just by eyeballing, there’s not much of a reprieve in there, especially in the first half of the season. He may have avoided Lincecum, but he also rarely drew #3-5 starters, which you’d expect more often out of a #1 starter as the season wears on. Taken with the Reds anemic offense, Harang was not getting run support early (where it would affect his approach and ability to get a decision ) or often when he pitched.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Part of the explanation is that Harang is probably a #2 or #3 now
where he was a #1 in ‘06 and ’07. The Reds haven’t yet produced a who has eclipsed his spot in the major league rotation. But even allowing that Bronson profiles at the club’s #2, I think he faced an easier road last year than you’d expect from a front of rotation starter:
Oliver Perez
Manny Parra
Mike Hampton
Derek Lowe
Zach Duke
Manny Parra
John Garland
Jake Peavy
Anthony Reyes
Felipe Paulino
Brad Thompson
Randy Wells
Kyle Davies
Jose Contreras
Scott Richmond
Dan Haren
Chris Carpenter
Fernando Nieve
Jeff Suppan
Chad Billingsley
Kevin Correia
Jason Marquis
Barry Zito
Colin Balester
Barry Zito
Jeff Suppan
Clayton Kershaw
Derek Lowe
Jason Hammel
Wandy Rodriguez
Ricky Nolasco
Charlie Morton
John Smoltz
This is an extremely quick and dirt comparison, but
Harang faced Santana, Wandy three times,, Zambrano, Josh Johnson, Chris Carpenter, Jair Jurrjens, Mark Buerhle, JA Happ, Randy Wells twice, Matt Cain twice and a lot of 3/4 guys
Arroyo drew Peavy, Randy Wells, Kershaw, Wandy, Haren, Carpenter and a lot of 4/5 guys
So I think Harang is both in danger of getting out of his depth as a #1 starter and also pretty unlucky in terms of pitching opponent, compounded by the fact that the Reds couldn’t muster any offense last year, especially against good pitching. If one of the young guys can emerge as an ace, I think Harang could thrive in a 2/3 role over the next two seasons.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
The takeaway?
Aarson Harenan is aewsume!
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
if you are going to do it get it right
aaron harnann is so aweseom. I mean it is BK’s sig.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Just doing my own take
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
unlike The Office
the original is better.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
That's only a half-truth
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, I used to respect your opinion
Now I just think you’re a douche :-)
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
seriously?
im hearing alotta bellyachin’ here, but not much hard evidence. prove me wrong.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have agreed with you
If the American Office had ended two seasons ago. The UK version gets style points for brevity.
by the finest muffins on Mar 3, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Most definitely
Pam and Jim are so incredibly vanilla now.
by ken on Mar 3, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
I like Jim and Pam
but then I’m white and suburban. Holla!
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
exactly
Jim and Pam are the closest television has ever come to reflecting the relationship i have with my wife. ive never flushed her engagement ring down the toilet and then raced to try to replace it before she found out. ive never blown our life savings without telling her by investing in my hair-brained best friend’s brewery idea. and ive never driven the car through the garage door and then, once the laugh track subsided, sheepishly said, “hi honey! im home!”
so yeah, Pam and Jim are vanilla. but so am i. it’s kinda fun to see me on television. but of course im better looking than Jim. and Mrs. Scrabbles has a much nicer ass than Pam.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah
and in ’merican accents too.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, that is funny!
You know what’s not funny? Boring Jim the Manager.
by the finest muffins on Mar 3, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
when Jim put Dwight's tie in his coffee
i totally flipped out. it’s like they figured out it wasnt working and fixed it before it was too late. terrific.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
oh and
that guy in the monkey just kicked you in the nuts for calling me an ass. ass.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
...said 'tHan in a funny high voice
because he just got kicked in the nuts.
bazinga!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 3, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Well now I definitely don't want to see you on television
I thought Tim was a much more compelling and identifiable protagonist. He openly wrestles with what he wants in his life, both professionally and personally. And you really feel for him because it’s not at all clear if he’s gonna make it. Jim is tall, handsome, and reasonably intelligent in a fantasy world where everyone’s an idiot. You knew all along he’d get what he wants.
Just saw Away We Go the other night. A bit corny but I dug it. Jim and Maya Rudolph were pretty decent.
by ken on Mar 3, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but...
I personally find (early seasons) Michael Scott much easier to watch than David Brent. Both are funny because of their social awkwardness and pettiness, but David’s selfish and sometimes downright cruel. That’s only watchable for so long. Michael just wants you to be afraid of how much you love him. I also think the American version did a better job of using the ensemble cast.
Also, Away We Go was awesome. I’m loving Allison Janney’s post-West Wing comedy turns.
by the finest muffins on Mar 3, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think David's awkwardness is part of what makes him entertaining
Especially later in the series, in some of those episodes, you have to cringe every time he comes onto the screen. They tried to emulate it somewhat with early Michael, but there’s nobody else in the American version that comes even close.
I will agree with you about the supporting cast members. I think the US version did a far better job in using the talent they had in what was initially their extras (Creed definitely comes to mind here), and then bringing in people to help accentuate the cast once they found out that they had more luck using a large cast of characters (Andy Bernard).
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
This was a direction that was discussed and implemented on the network level.
After lackluster ratings the first season, they wanted to make Michael less mean and more likable. And it worked.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 3, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Ain't nothing vanilla about Jim & Pam
or they couldn’t have pulled off this gem.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 3, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Shoulda gone with Karen, Jim
But now she’s on Parks & Recreation, which is way funnier.
by Brendanukkah on Mar 3, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I got your back on this one, 'Nukkah.
Although I just started watching ‘The Office’ last year or maybe the year before so what do I know?
But what was with that hunting epsiode of ‘Parks and Rec’? I thought I was watching one long SNL skit. The skit that’s on as you close in on 1am and nobody’s watching. Or laughing.
The senior center concert episode more than made up for it. Felt like it coulda been a movie. And the storyline with Laroquette wasn’t even done all that well IMO.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
it shoulda been Cread and Pam
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 3, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Good Lord
you are so 1949
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 3, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
You guys shuld get a room.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 4, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'll need some photos to ado a side by side
Jenna Fischer is pretty hot
http://www.poptower.com/jenna-fischer-picture-13102.htm
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
no dice, old man
im not gonna post pics of my lovely wife for lascivious internet jerks like you to drool over. i cant fault you for trying though.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 4, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
please don't quote W-L record
it has much less to do with the pitcher than people think.
For instance, in the last 2 seasons, Bronson Arroyo has given up 4 or fewer runs 44 times in 67 starts (66%) and Arroyo is 27-6 in those starts. Aaron Harang has given up 4 or fewer runs 38 times in 56 starts (68%) but Harang is just 11-15 in those starts.
Do you think that is the pitcher’s fault?
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
by Slyde on Mar 3, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Eric Milton knew how to win before he came to Cincinnati!
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Good stats.
Let’s get the Harangutan some runs!
I be so turned up, I be swaggin to da max
by coocooforcocoapuffs on Mar 3, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
To the point about wins
Harang went 16-11 in 2006 and then 16-6 in 2007. The Reds finished 3rd and 5th respectively. Pitcher performance can be greatly at odds with both pitcher record and team record. Not only is Harang only one starting pitcher – who is easily among the most valuable 5 starters the team has this year – he’s also only one player on the starting nine who plays every fifth day. Much of his record – and obviously the team record – is tied to how the other 24 players are performing.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
What?
One of the 5 most valuable starters, don’t go out on a limb or anything, your previous statement says he’s a 2 or 3, which means he shouldn’t start opening day. Would you pick him up for $14M next year?
Who is the ace of this staff?
Bronson? I like Bronson but he is just as likely to run of a 10 game stretch with an ERA of 10 as to run off a 10 game stretch with an ERA of 2.
Cueto? He has had two solid league average seasons, if he takes the next step he could be a staff leader, but he has not earned an opening day start.
Homer? He hasn’t even had a solid full season in a big league starting rotation. He has front line stuff, but he has gotta put it all together over the course of 30 starts.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Maybe you're just hyperbolizing..
but c’mon, has Arroyo ever had a ten game stretch with an ERA of 7.00 or 8.00.. let alone 10.00?
I understand your statement is that he’s “just as likely” to have a ridiculously bad month or two as he is to have a stellar month or two. Maybe that’s true but a 10.00 ERA over a ten game span? He’s not ever gonna shit quite that much shit in the bed, is he?
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
It is hyperbole
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
He may not be an ideal #1 starter anymore
but he remains, along with Arroyo, the best, most reliable option the Reds have to start the season. That’s subject to change with the ascendancy of Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, Leake or Chapman. But we’re not there quite yet.
Harang’s 2010 option stands at $12.75MM, with a $2MM buyout. It goes to $13MM with 210 IP this year. I think it’s less than likely – though not out of the question – that we’ll see 210 IP fron Harang this year after he’s been under-200 the last two years. With the $2MM sunk, the question is really whether you want to add $10.75MM to the payroll to have Harang next year.
The answer to that question is pretty contingent on how Cueto, Bailey, Leake and Chapman perform this year, how Volquez recovers and to a lesser extent how Arroyo and Wood perform. The odds are pretty good that Harang will be one of the few starters the Reds can count on for 160-200 IP and a mid-3 to low-4 ERA. That’s extremely valuable. If Arroyo’s option is not picked up, he’d be the only starter being paid a free agent salary, with everyone else cost-controlled and only Cueto igetting arb (not sure what happens to Volquez with lost time, but he’ll make very little relative to his value).
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Here's an interesting wager.
One side takes the vets: Harang and Arroyo
The other side takes the youngsters: Cueto and Bailey
Bottles of Maker’s Mark on the line. Vet side puts up two bottles for every one on the youngsters. the side with the better stats at the end of 2010 (ERA+, WHIP, K/BB rate.. whatever you wanna use. But NOT friggin’ W-L.)
No compensation (or whining) for time lost due to injuries.
Who you taking?
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
youngsters, with Bailey leading the way
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
They don't call you Fat Vegas Alan for nothing..
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
The only reason he didn't reach 200 innings last year was his appendectomy
I would make a wager that says he can throw at least 200 innings this year. He averaged 6.25 innings over his 26 starts last year. If you multiply his average by 33 he comes in at 206 innings.
Side note, I spelled appendectomy right the first time, Firefox didn’t have to fix it. Go Me!
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Even if he's a 2 or 3 and shouldn't be pitching opening day
You suggested that he doesn’t deserve a spot in the rotation. If I have a 2 or 3 type starter on my team, I’m putting him in the rotation.
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
You said you agreed with Hal
Who do you think deserves a spot in the rotation over Harang?
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Hal
The quote says he MIGHT not deserve to be the opening day starter and maybe shouldn’t even be GUARANTEED a spot in the starting rotation, The statement would hold even more water if Volquez was ready to go.
Okay, if he shouldn't be guaranteed a spot, who should?
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
deciding who should be in the rotation based on Spring Training
is how teams end up in fourth place.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
by Slyde on Mar 3, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Decissions
Deciding your lineup before you know what you got is how you end up in 5th, Why don’t they at least see who’s hot in the Spring, you don’t make all your decissions there but you do evaluate your talent, and maybe move one guy up and one guy down, not to speak of injury, besides 4th seems fine to alot of people on this blog, status quo and all.
76, Spring Training is mostly about stretching groins and seeing breaking pitches.
You do realize this, right?
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Got it all stretched out.
You should see the curve.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
He hurt his groin by typing too fast earlier this winter
and couldn’t understand “dick” jokes for like a week.
On this site, that’s a serious disadvantage.
But, as yesterday’s porn discussion showed, the veteran was back into mid-season form.
go, Alan
Porn discussion? Yesterday?
Meet ya back then.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 4, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
yes, we're all very happy with 4th
nobody likes a winner.
And if they need Spring Training to see what talent they have, then god help us. They should know who they have and what to expect. Going with someone because they were hot during spring is a fool’s proposition, especially if that player wasn’t expected to be starting when Spring started.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Chapman
So if Aroldis doesn’t get touched this spring. Nobody even hits him, he shouldn’t make the team. Jocketty already said he thinks he’s got a ligit shot at #5
That's a different case
but I’m not saying every position should be set (though I’ll admit that it kinda sounds like that’s what I meant). Stuff like the 5th starter are always likely to be in play. But it shouldn’t be done based on numbers or “who’s hot.” If you know a player is more talented and physically/mentally mature enough (i.e. doesn’t need more time in the minors), you really should know that before Spring Training. If you don’t, I doubt you’ll actually see enough in Spring to learn that. Spring Training is not real baseball.
With a pitcher like Harang – who is still a good pitcher, despite the W-L record, which is what everyone is arguing – it’s foolish to think that he should have to earn a spot. There’s a reason veterans don’t have to win positions every year. You’d end up with a bunch of injuries to your best players.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
I answered below
but I will add that I don’t think it’s a decision that can be made right now. If Bailey and Cueto need Tommy John surgery at the end of the year, and Harang posts a sub-4.00 ERA over 200 IP, then yeah I’d pick up the option.
In the most likely scenario though, I probably wouldn’t pick it up because it’s a lot of money and with Cueto, Bailey, Volquez, Chapman, Leake, Wood, Maloney, I think the Reds could afford to let him go. Assuming they have enough healthy arms.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
spring training
is more about marketing the Reds brand to another audience than it is about building a roster. One, tops two, spots are open in S.T. Never more than that.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
It may not be about building a roster beyond two-to-four spots,
but it often – too often – defines roles.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 4, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Maloney
Superb minor league numbers at every level, a modicum of success last September, he has nothing left to prove in AAA, and has earned his shot to get a month or two to prove he can get hitters out with his great command, decent secondary stuff, but weak fastball.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Maloney is almost a no-brainer
as the No. 5 guy unless he completely tanks it.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Agreed.
I feel the same way about Bladdy in LF.
Give him a shot, so we see what’s he’s got,
to find out if he’s a starter or not.
I’m on RedReporter, and I’ll yell, and I’ll shout
for the chances we squander as they’re on their way out!
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 4, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
coughs "gopher-itis"
I shall now hide under the bed for fear of Justin’s wrath
Somebody..
get this guy a subscription to “Scroll Up an Read the Original Post.”
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
I never said everything was preset
But Harang’s past speaks for itself, and based on what we know he’s capable of, he shouldn’t lose a paycheck because some kid from AA put up a few innings of zeros in spring training.
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
hey go back to Bleed Cubbie Blue!
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
So, let me get this straight
According to you, Joey Harrington should have started at QB for the Saints this season since he was better in the preseason than Drew Brees. That’s what the preseason’s for, right?
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
But one of the top players on the team wasn't dropped for that guy to make the team
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
But who else is there, really,
for this team come April 2010? You have to deal in talent the Reds have available.
Arroyo and Harang have pretty similar track records. Great in ‘06-’07, down years in ‘08. They both have their virtues and vices. Arroyo was better than Harang last year and is a better innings-eater by volume, while Harang has better peripherals and, stripping out defense and luck, is probably the better pitcher. Given that Arroyo doesn’t even want the ball on Opening Day, that’s more than enough of a tie-breaker.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
That's a specious argument
I wouldn’t ever rank him among the best 5 pitchers in the MLB, nor possibly not among the Top 50 over the course of the season – which is how you might view a draft.
But on Opening Day 2010, he’s easily one of the two best, most reliable starters the Reds have to start the season — as one of 30 MLB teams. You’re right if you’re suggesting the Reds have talented pitchers that might soon surpass Harang on the chart, but you have to consider the current snapshot.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Fair
Fair enough, I just don’t see him as some do. And I think we can do better with our 14M next year, of course if he goes out and wins 20 I’ll look like a fool, a very happy fool.
What if he goes out and wins 14?
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
What he wins 12 and has a 2.36 ERA and 1.00 WHIP?
Anyone remember the great Storm Davis?
Back in 1990 something, dude won 19 games with A’s with an unbelievably high ERA. KC signed him to a monster deal and he sucked forever.
The lesson is don’t believe in wins or you build a team like Kansas City has
I doubt very many people here are expecting the team to pick up his option for 2011
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
What if he goes out and puts up numbers similar to 2006/2007?
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
It's still a lot of money
I’m doubtful that he could do enough to pick up the option in 2011. BTW, the option is only $12.75M, not $14M. Small potatoes, I know, but I’m a stickler for detail.
(And technically, it’s a $10.75M decision since they are guaranteed to owe him $2M even if they don’t pick up the option)
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
I guess if they want Harang to stay
and Harang wants to stay, they could throw his option out the window and extend his contract. But it is really premature to be thinking about this.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Can I have those 1.25M in potatoes.
Sweet if you have them..
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
There is still almost no chance the team will be able to afford to bring him back at that rate
If they restructure him sometime this season, then I think it’s possible, but otherwise there’s no way Aaron Harang is a Red in 2011.
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with this
I don’t think it’s a matter of whether or not they can afford him. I think it’s a matter of whether or not they need him at that price. I think they can afford either Harang or Arroyo, but I doubt both. The other player’s money will likely go toward arbitration raises for Votto, Volquez, and Cueto.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
by Slyde on Mar 3, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm also kind of assuming that they won't need him either
That they’ll be able to fill out some kind of a rotation with the plethora of arms they have there now. But even if he has a good season next year, is there any way the team can justify giving him $14M when they might be able to get that same production for $8-9M from a FA? I think if they do decide to bring him back, they’ll extend him to something like they did with Rolen (lesser money, more years), rather than just picking up the option.
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
it's not $14M, it's $12.75M
I agree that they’ll try to restructure, but there’s no way they find similar production for $8-9M on the open market unless it is somebody with injury concerns.
Also, another reason they may not pick up the Harang and Arroyo options – Brandon Webb.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Let's say Harang has a great year.
One of his best. Healthy. Lots of wins. Lots of Ks. Maybe some Cy Young votes.
What kind of numbers could he find outside of Cincinnati in the offseason?
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
a repeat of his 2007 season
is probably worth $15M on the open market, at least. However, given that he struggled in 2008 and 2009, he might be bumped to the $12-14M range. It all depends on what teams think he would actually do in 2011.
I don’t think he’ll be 2007 good again. Maybe 3-4 WAR is the best we can expect. He’s getting paid for 3.5 WAR in 2010.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
And your best guess..
..on the length of such a contract?
(I guess I’m imagining some crappy rich team with no real plan like the Mets would win the bidding war for him.)
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
probably 3 years with options
It all really depends on what sort of year he has in 2010 though. If he’s healthy and a beast (220 innings+), then it’ll be longer. If he only gets 190 IP, people might be shy about guaranteeing more years.
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Good lord
The Reds barely have a pitching staff…why would you trade any of these guys let alone Harang?
Nonsense…
BTW ST is mostly about looking at the FAs,the young guys and the new roster guys. You already know pretty much what you have if your Dudsy or Walt….
I saw Frazier put in a very impressive ST last year but I don’t think he was any more ready for the bigs than was Doorknob McFuckface…and look what an outstanding year McFuck had.
Good Lordy Lord.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
pick up the option and trade him
or trade him mid-season?
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
You're assuming we won't need him late in the season
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 3, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
He contract gets worse if he's traded
His 2011 option goes to $14M and the buyout goes to $2.5M. Probably not a real big deal to a team that is in the hunt and needs a solid starting pitcher, but still makes the deal a little less attractive.
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Not sure where all this fits
but it is conceivable that the Reds top three pitchers in 2011 could be three guys who don’t speak English. I don’t evaluate that beyond what it is. And does Coco habla Ingles?
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I wouldn't shy away from putting him on my fantasy as a midround pick
Guy will bounce back this year.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
And he's been incredibly unlucky in that stretch re: wins and run support.
Plus, some of that was Dusty’s misuse.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 3, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
agree'd
We unload the big Harangatan and then we can just watch him pitch for somebody else in the World Series.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Is this someone's second account?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
76 reds
was on the other day and got dashed for comments about Vottomatic.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
A bizarro riverfront76 of sorts
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
FYI: Mega Millions jackpot is now at $133M+
Think lucky, bitches.
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
Yeah but I want to wait until it gets bigger before I spend my money on a ticket
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
if you can't buy a baseball team with the winnings, wtf is it good for?
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
by johnu1 on Mar 4, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Soooooo perfectly right!
But let’s deliciously remember: you don’t need the full value of a franchise, just enough to buy a controlling interest, perhaps even split between you and some minority partners that work collectively. That’s mostly how Bill Veeck worked when he was initially buying his franchises, IIRC. He always delivered on loans he got from banks, so there were a couple of bankers who would loan him whatever he needed.
So if I win the lotto, I could set my sights on the Florida Marlins, valued by Forbes in 2009 at $270M. A controlling interest of 50.01% could be $135M…
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 4, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I have my eye on the Orioles
I want to move them back to St. Louis where they belong.
Brings up other thoughts about that.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
Like how one study showed that the best market for a new team would be New York City?
The study, IIRC, showed that NYC could well support 2 more teams, Chicago 1 more, and LA 1 more.
I’d love to see a team in North Jersey to drag down the NYY and NYM revenues to a more competitive level. And a team called the Santa Monica Surfers would be awesome. (aka The Beach Bums)
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
How long would it take for a North Jersey team to draw fans from the Mets and Yankee's?
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
It would probably be bad news for the Newark Bears
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Indy ball thrives
in the shadow of affiliated leagues.
I live in an indy ball town (Gary) and while the 3,500 per game doesn’t strike you as awesome, it’s pretty darned solid for a place that leads the world in gangster murders per capita.
There is a solid fan base for all these teams and so long as they get a fair shake at the gate and inside the park, they will be able to manage.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I know for that level 3,500 is great
I don’t think the Freedom see 2,000 per game. I may have to take in a game in Gary one of the times I take a research trip up here this summer.
I love Indy ball. I wish I lived closer to Florence so I could go to more games, but the 45 mile drive is a bit of a killer.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
indy ball
I get it on the drive. The beauty of minor league ball is that you can do it spur of the moment. An hour drive means you have to make something of a plan. Kinda defeats the purpose.
For me, it’s 40 minutes, driveway to dugout.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
I've gone to Freedom games on a whim
but it still is just a bit of a drive, especially at rush hour.
But I do love minor league ball, just a nice intimate feel.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
They'd be successful right away.
Just like the Mets were when they were an expansion team. People who aren’t fans of either, or find it worthy to “get in on the ground floor” of a franchise, or are part of the New Jersey inferiority complex, would embrace the team immediately. But none of that is the main point, which is: TV & ad revenues in metropolises are worth so much more than such ad revenues in Pittsburgh. Financially, it’s hard to fail with a MLB franchise in a top-5 media market.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
don't dismiss it
Big league baseball in Brooklyn would be a total success!!!
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
It's been very tough for the Nets to make headway
I think a third team could work in the greater NY area, but it won’t be easy.
by ken on Mar 4, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
the problem is finding the money for a ballpark.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
NBA does not equal MLB
Such as with ticket prices.
When NYC had three teams in the 50’s, they all drew well and were fervently supported. Add in that from 1970 to 2006, the NYC population has skyrocketed. Brooklyn grew by 116%, Manhattan by 43.5%, Staten Island by 132%, and Queens by 131%. With previous success and a population explosion, it’s tough to argue that there aren’t enough people to support at least one more NYC area team. Especially when the Cincy metro area has only 2,155,137 people in it…while there are 18,815,988 in the New York Metro area – about NINE TIMES as many.
Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move. - Satchel Paige
it makes far too much sense for it to happen
and seriously, think of the blowback if MLB announced another baseball team is moving to NY. like there arent enough people who think there’s too much focus on NY.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 4, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think ticket prices would be the issue
Nets ticket prices have never been the issue. Aside from the shoddy product (admittedly a huge factor), it’s the logistics of getting tens of thousands of people to see a ballgame in north Jersey. The traffic makes it a real pain in the ass getting around there. Much of the NY crowd won’t be able to make it by lacking a car, and the CT types are too far.
Not to say it wouldn’t work. North Jersey alone is a bigger media market than many MLB cities. But they’ll have to plan well and prepare for the inevitable difficulties with doing business in NJ.
by ken on Mar 4, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
actually, Brooklyn
is doing really OK in the NY-P League.
They have a ballpark already. Obviously not big enough for the MLBs. I have no idea what this would mean.
I just knew that I would now be having train sex with a very odd broad in no time. I didn’t expect the bitch to shoot me though. (Pops Daniels)
lucky, as in a 10 year contract for Harang?
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