Alonso story at mlbtraderumors.com
Interesting comments, some bad, some decent.
Lots of trade ideas. Like Alonso for Buster Posey and Brandon Crawford. Do you believe any of those could actually fly?
about 2 years ago
bbjones
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Really can't see the Giants giving up Posey,
especially when 1B is blocked now that they’ve moved Sandoval there.
Now’s not a good time to trade Alonso, anyways. He needs to rake in Louisville first to show the hamate fracture isn’t an issue.
i love the idea of trading Alonso
i just hope they can extract maximum (or even sufficient) value out of him. Walt’s Rolen trade has me afraid that he’ll trade him for a Molina or something stupid like that.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 2, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed, except hopefully the situation would be way different
With Rolen the Reds were fairly desperate to get him, and that seemed clear to everyone.
Hopefully in this situation the Reds weren’t desperate to get someone, but were shopping Alonso around, and hopefully a desperate team offered a lot for him. (although it doesn’t seem likely that a team would be desperate for a prospect, even a good one)
I would think if he waited until next offseason there would be a bunch of teams interested in a young, good, cheap 1B, esp. if Alonso rakes in AAA this season. Hopefully some competition for him would drive the price up.
Or Votto could just move to LF.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
I liked the Brignac rumor on MLBtrade rumors
Wonder what it would take, besides Alonso, to get him here?
Alonso for Brignac straight up would be a steal for TB
Brignac hasn’t hit much at AAA, has little power or speed, and only plays a decent SS. He’s also 24, so his age excuse is going away.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
Whereas your "he can hit lefties" I swear, isn't going away
It is possible, NYC,. that you over-value him (although I hope not)
You're kidding, right?
84 PAs as a pro against lefties, so small sample size regardless.
But still, he has a 22.5% LD rate against them, a 15% walk rate, and a 21% K rate. I’d take those as his total numbers, but those are against lefties. He’s not getting fooled by them, AT ALL.
Plus he absolutely destroys righties (29% LD, 12% BB,15% Ks)
I may overvalue him, but it’s not because I think he can hit lefties.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
Jesus, we've been over this
He faced lefties at Miami too and hit like .240 against them.
You act like I make this stuff up just because I disagree with you.
From BP, but there are plenty of others:
A concern about his ability to hit lefties hounded him throughout his amateur career, and he did little to address it in 2009 by batting .242 against them without a home run.
Everybody knows that college lefties are harder to face than MLB ones.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
he still posted a .410 OBP and a .467 SLG against lefties his last year in college
and that was with a .236 BABIP.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
How did you find college splits?
I looked everywhere and then realized I was attempting to run a player down I am actually rooting for and decided it wasn’t that important.
I looked and looked for that Google and Persistence site---
I get no reply.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
Moves I'd like yo see but scare Dudsy
Votto to LF
Alonso to 1B
BP to SS
Frazier to SS
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
Better offense for sure.
I would suspect the defense would be much worse.
A Pete Rose by any other name would still smell of cheap hookers and pinetar.
by Pops Daniels on Mar 2, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Err that's Frazier to 2B
or El Kabrero to the bench
Frazier to SS
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
I think Alonso would be far more likely to go to an American League
club, where they have more flexibility with 1B/DH types. For it to be a meaningful return for the Reds, they’d probably have to target a catcher, middle infielder or possible pitcher who’s MLB-ready for 2011. Based on how things in Cincinnati and Louisville, I think keeping Alonso for 2011 could still end up being the best, most cost-effective move for fielding a competitive team in 2011.
Frazier may not have the bat for LF nor the glove for SS. It’s unclear where Heisey and Francisco fit and how they’ll perform in the Bigs. If Cozart were ready to go in ‘11, while LF still lacked a clear occupant, it’d be more than worth it to keep Alonso and move Votto — depending on what catching was available to Reds. I’d suspect there are very few teams that would give up a coveted catching prospect (Wieters, Posey etc) for a guy who might only be able to become a 1B/DH, albeit one that could rake
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 2, 2010 5:48 PM EST reply actions
BP may be in his last year at Cincinnati...
So Todd may be given a year to work into 2nd base..
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
This is my own wild guess
but I don’t see anyone in the Reds system replacing BP’s production at 2B in the near future. I hope he stays through ’11, cuz 20+ HR, 20 SB and great defense in the middle infield is pretty hard to replace.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 3, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
yikes
They wouldn’t trade Votto, would they?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
They traded Dunn, so why wouldn't they trade Votto?
by Highlifeman21 on Mar 2, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Different situations?
Dunn was in the final year of his contract. Based on the bad blood between Dunn and a large portion of the fan base/broadcast booth, I doubt he really wanted to stick around Cincinnati.
At the same time if Alsono seems ready to mash, and a team offers the right price for Votto, it would be very logical to trade Votto, to make room for Alsono and get some additional help.
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
Yeah
I think Joey probably will leave Cincinnati eventually. The question is when.
And it does seem like the front office didn’t like Dunn for some reason. He had so much trouble finding a job when he left, and signed cheap for the Nats. I gotta think he’d have signed with the Reds again if money were the only issue.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Please don't speak these words
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Mar 2, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I keep coming back to the Mariners.
I’ve been scouring team pages, depth charts, and roster flexibility (options, etc.), and I just keep thinking they’ll be the ones who need a 1B, and soon. They’ve made the commitment to Hernandez, Figgins, and Ichiro, and are speculated to be in the mix for Cliff Lee as well. Given they’ve got nothing beyond Kotchman and Garko locked up at 1B, and their DH (ahem, Junior) will certainly be retired soon, they’ve got an obvious need for a 1B/DH player in the middle of their order.
Mike Carp won’t be the guy, I don’t think. Ackley seems to be destined for 2B or the OF. They’ve got nothing of note on the way at AAA or AA. In other words, they’ll be in the market for someone in the Votto/Alonso mold.
I haven’t broken down the details yet to see exactly what they’d have to offer. That said, they seem to be a better fit than the Dodgers (Loney/McCourt $$ drama), Mets (w/Davis), or Indians. Maybe the White Sox, if Konerko leaves, but I just feel the M’s will be more actively searching MLB ready help.
Thoughts?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Mar 2, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
Dunn sucked at defense, and it takes away a lot of his value
The Reds had realized this and knew they could get a similar total value in left field for much cheaper than Dunn. I know you think defense doesn’t matter in LF, but when you are as bad as Dunn is, it does matter. I like Dunn as much as anybody, but I think the Reds were justified in making the move that they made.
By the way, the same can be said for Gomes, but when you aren’t even making a million dollars, it’s a lot easier to justify being a part-time platoon player. Plus, Gomes brings a much different attitude to the clubhouse than Dunn, which the Reds seem to value.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
I've just yet to hear a compelling argument as to why LF D matters
And I actually think Gomes is worse defensively in LF than Dunn
by Highlifeman21 on Mar 3, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
It matters because balls to the outfield turn into doubles if they aren't fielded
even in left field.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
I guess I have issues with UZR as it pertains to LF D
Fangraphs would make me a lot happier if they included TC when I can look at UZR and exO, but they do not, and right now I’m too lazy to look up TC per the usual suspects of bad UZR in LF.
With LF seeing the least amount of TC each year per position, it escapes me as to how UZR can say that a LF can cost a team double digit runs. While I see Ryan Braun was a -14.4 in LF for 2009, which to my comprehension is saying that Ryan Braun gives up 14 run defensively more so than an average defensive LF.
Sure, I understand the whole example of balls hit to the OF not caught typically result in XBH, but to translate those XBH to double digit runs allowed is where UZR loses me.
Ryan Braun OPS’d .937 last year, so does that -14.4 UZR drastically lower his total value as a player? Not in my eyes, since he plays LF. Dunn OPS’d .928 last year, and put up a UZR of -15.3. Same question, does that drastically lower his total value as a player? Absolutely not.
My reasoning? LF is not a D premium position. Historically, LFers cash their checks b/c of their bat, not b/c of their glove, and I don’t seem them making less money b/c they have less of a glove.
by Highlifeman21 on Mar 3, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
the point is that history may have been wrong
I think you are turning “Defense doesn’t matter as much in left field” into “Defense doesn’t matter at all in left field.” If I have a superior bat who is weak on defense, yes, I’m going to stick him in left field. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t hurt the team or his value. It just means it’s the “safest” place to put him on the field where he’ll do less harm.
Even if you ignore UZR, which fiddles the numbers a bit because if Carl Crawford & David Dejesus started playing CF, suddenly Adam Dunn would start looking like a better fielder, you can’t deny that a player can make up some lost offensive value by playing better defense. And if you’ve got a flyball pitching staff, there is some extra value in having a quality defensive outfield, above and beyond the normal situation.
I guess my point is that you can say all you want that defense doesn’t matter in left field, but the fact is that a poor defender can hurt his value. We may disagree on the level to which that is, but I think it is more significant than you accept.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Perhaps it is more significant than I accept
However, I think as long as you put a dude who can rake in LF, his defense is an added bonus if it’s good, but if it’s not good, it shouldn’t be the end of the world, and shouldn’t significantly impact his value negatively.
Ryan Braun was a 4.8 WAR player in 2009, while Carl Crawford was a 5.5. If I have my choice between those 2, I want Ryan Braun, and his crappy D.
Conversely, David DeJesus was a 3.3 WAR player, but I obviously want to discount that due to the fact he plays LF and all of his WAR value came from his D.
by Highlifeman21 on Mar 3, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I know I'm not as serious a student of the game as some...
But how is “they hit the ball to left field, too” not a compelling argument for why LF defense matters?
by the finest muffins on Mar 3, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Not as much as they hit balls to other positions!
by Highlifeman21 on Mar 3, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
but players are only compared to their position
so if Dunn makes 30 fewer plays than the typical LF, it doesn’t matter that he’s had fewer opportunities than the typical center fielder. He’s only being compared to other LF.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Just as many if not more balls are hit to left versus right field
Most hitters are right handed, and more balls are pulled. To look at someone you raised, Ryan Braun had 314 chances last year in 1,364 innings. Corey Hart had less innings in RF (930), but a lot fewer chances (195).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2009.shtml
by ken on Mar 3, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Of course not...he's fucking fat and lazy and hates baseball..and now he doesn't want run all the way out to LF anymore.
On the Alonso note…I can’t imagine that Uncle Walt will trade him for anyone but a top tier guy,,and the Reds don’t got the bucks to sustain a top tier salary. Better to get him working out in LF.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
Would you pay him $8M to fish and drink beer?
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 3, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
cumb'd
"Let's get this movie. We already have the underwear."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 3, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Now that i'm back from bwling I am $28 dollars richer than when I left home...
that’s right your RR rep made it to the finals tonight in the $3 ‘playoff’ game and won some $$$…not enough to buy a pitcher but enough to buy a pitcher.
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
those two statements are conflicting!
… or are they?
cue scary music
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
It was some kind of imported aweet and heavy brew...
Personally I like Coors Light
Yu Na...if I were 40 years younger and single.
Coors Light is awful
Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Leake. The future is so bright I have to wear sunglasses.
by justin007000 on Mar 4, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
You're wrong
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Mar 4, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
It's better when it's in a Killian's can
And maybe it’s just proof that I belong in DC, but I stopped drinking both of those when I realized all the money they donate to the Heritage Foundation.
$8 Million? Yes
$13-$15 Million? No
Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dips**ts.
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