Two Years of Miguel: Hope there's still a Fire in Cairo
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 9, 2010 12:11 PM EST
in Off-season
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PrintThere's little question that two guaranteed years for a 36-year old utility man with a .267/.317/.361 career slash line is excessive. But it's also almost completely harmless. The Cairo signing is not Willy Taveras, Part Deux. Cairo will be getting $2M, spread over two seasons, to play off the bench - a role he filled admirably last year. Cairo's.290/.353/.410 line (good for almost 1.0 FanGraphs WAR) in 226 PAs last season has all the appearance of an aberrant, career peak kind of season, in part because of a BABIP almost 30 points above his career average.
Unsurprisingly, Bill James projects Cairo to snap right back to his career line, with a speculative .675 OPS in 2010. If Cairo marginally outperforms James' outlook - and last season is reason to think he can - he'll be a slightly-overpaid bench player, with slightly more job security than other players in his class.
Cairo can back-up at all four infield positions and serve as an emergency outfielder. For a superutility player, his defense seems acceptable. FanGraphs has him in the positive in fielding runs from 2006-2009. And while he was slightly negative last year, my naked eye - while indecently exposed - judged him to be acceptable (for a reserve) everywhere but in the outfield. And at DH - dude didn't even bother to take the field. Lazy.
This move is a head-scratcher, but only for a brief moment before you go back to the texting.
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Cairo
can supposedly serve as an emergency catcher as well, though so far no one’s had to break the glass and actually use him during a game.
Still, this seems kinda crazy. It’s the best contract Cairo’s ever gotten. Only the Yanks paid him a million a season, and that was just a one-year deal.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
It's more puzzling than crazy
in that I don’t see how it does any harm. He’s coming off probably one of the two best seasons of his career – but at 36 that should have earned him an MLB contract, not 2yrs/$2M.
The deal may also provide more flexibility to package a position player prospect in a trade. But you’re right, it’s weird.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 9, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda like this deal, looking at his career, this seems to be the role he excells at.
he has 0 innings as catcher in majors or minors.
by Eastwindquinn on Dec 9, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I remember Janish's name being dropped in case of emergency
I’m not sure if he has any inning as a catcher either.
WYSIWIG
maybe little league
He was a pitcher – a closer – in college, before he switched to SS.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Janish works as the Reds bullpen catcher
I kinda wish he wouldn’t. Probably not good for his speed. He’s not particularly fast as it is.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
1.0 WAR for the definition of a replacement player ain't bad!
but yeah, puzzling indeed.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
This just in:
Carl Crawford will sign with the Red Sox. Thanks for nothing, Santa.
Also, JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris were traded for a couple of minor league pitchers. The Orioles also got cash in the deal Thursday that sent right-handers Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson to Minnesota.
Can someone illuminate us on the price we wouldn’t meet to make this trade ourselves? How good are these minor league hurlers? I would have liked to have seen Hardy at SS in Cincy, leaving enough cash to still consider a LF move…
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
Here's what Rotowire had to say about the trade:
It’s not clear why Minnesota wanted to part with Hardy. His Gold Glove caliber defense makes him valuable to major league teams even if he doesn’t hit very well, and he’s only 27. Sure, he’s injury prone and was due an increase in salary in arbitration (to perhaps as much as $7 million), but when healthy he was productive (.714 OPS and .791 OPS in September after wrist problems hurt him all year) while putting up his usual strong defense (8.1 UZR last season) – and the Twins have few other impact players in the middle infield. He could benefit from the move to Baltimore and has upside power potential, but he needs to find a way to stay healthy.
Hoey missed the 2008 season after shoulder surgery, but was healthy last year and had a 3.25 ERA and 70:34 K:BB ratio in 52.2 innings between Double-A and Triple-A. Hoey throws hard and has good strikeout rates, but needs to improve his control. He could win a set-up role with the Twins this spring with Minnesota potentially losing several relievers (Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain, Jon Rauch) in free agency.
Hoey is also 27. And he has gotten SHELLED in his 35 MLB games to the tune of an 8.13 ERA.
Jacobson had a 2.79 ERA and 67:24 K:BB ratio at High-A Frederick. He has good velocity and strong strikeout rates, but needs to improve his control. He was also a bit old for High-A (he’ll be 24 next season) which may limit his upside. However, a good season at Double-A could put him in the mix to work in the Minnesota bullpen or back end of the rotation in 2012.
Um…shouldn’t we have traded for Hardy, considering how low the price was? Hardy can pick it at SS and has plenty of offensive upside. Was he simply too expensive for the Reds? Was cash the only thing separating us from JJ?
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
I've wanted Hardy for a couple years now
This saddens me. Except that Walt was able to get Ramon Hernandez from Baltimore for Ryan Freel’s disease-free corpse. Maybe he can do it again.
I'll be curious to see how much cash was sent to the Os
If it’s only a million or so, that answers your question. Walt wasn’t going to spend 6 mil. But if they are covering over half, I’ll be upset that he didn’t jump on this.
And yeah, the Reds have about a dozen of those types of pitchers. Completely expendable.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
The Baltimore Sun reports that it was only $500k.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
So there's your answer.
Hardy made 5.1 mil this year and will get a raise. Too rich for Banana Bob
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Still, you have to wonder if the Reds could've offered more in exchange for more money being sent over.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Hoey's fastball is fast
But it’s straight as a string. Don’t know that he’ll ever have MLB success.
Jacobson was the return for a month of Aubrey Huff. I never saw him.
It would seem that the Reds could have easily put together a better package. Jordan Smith alone would have more value. Makes me think something else is in the works.
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Dec 9, 2010 6:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Smith, LeCure, Maloney, any one of them is better than those two.
by Eastwindquinn on Dec 9, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
better than those two put together, even
EDR, Carlos Fisher, DRH are probably better than those two as well. Micah Owings Ben Jukich, Pedro Viola, Chad Reineke – those are guys that I would say are comparable to what the Twins got. Completely replaceable organizational filler with very little ML upside at all. Guys who couldn’t sniff the 25-man unless we had 6 or 7 injuries in front of them at the same time.
Thats just too much logic to wrap my head around.
Easy, Petey. I’m in my post lunch coma right now.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 1:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I just want to know if the Crawford deal with Boston means
The Sox will be willing to part with Ellsbury?
Left field + leadoff guy for a reasonable $$$ sounds like a perfect fit for the Reds to me. Not sure what it would take in a trade to pull it off. The Sox are obviously willing to buy whatever they need. I’m not sure they’d teel better just letting him rot on the bench rather than trade him.
While it's fun to dream,
I think the Sox are more likely to unload Cameron than Ellsbury.
That is, unless they’re still upset with him for being such a wimp. In that case, we should be wary as well.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 9, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
they're looking for bullpen help
I doubt they’d take any less than Masset. Or maybe Ondrusek + another significant piece
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
I'd do either deal in a second. They'd probably want more than that.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I would have no problem giving up Lurch or Bright Eyes to Dusty-proof this roster with Ellsbury.
This move would also free up salary to spend at the AS break on a rent-a-player or to use toward Stephen Drew’s post-trade salary. :)
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
You know, this is one thing I have thought about this week, amongst all the talk of budget tightness
There are enough young players knocking on the door of the big club that I can see Walt being willing to see if any of them can significantly contribute this year. All it will take is for one or two of:
Heisey, END, Alonso, Mesoraco, Chapman the starter, Frazier, or Negron to break out in a big way for this team to be significantly better. If that doesn’t happen, but the team is still in contention in June/July, maybe Walt will have some money to work with to pick up an impact mercenary player for the stretch run.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
oh, forgot Cozart too.
And I realize that waiting around for a breakout isn’t best policy, but that’s a TON of MLB ready talent, so to think that at least a couple of them could develop beyond our expectations isn’t out of the question.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Is Negron MLB ready?
and, while we’re at it, I don’t think END is, nor really ever will be, MLB ready.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
all END needs to do is not swing at breaking balls (or everything else) way out of the zone
thing with him is, he can hit bad pitches a long way. Problem is, he swings at everything, so pitchers can just keep throwing it in the dirt and eventually he whiffs.
If he could learn to make pitchers throw it into the zone to him, he’d be really scary. I agree it’s not likely, but he’s worth throwing in the pile of hope.
And who knows on Negron, but he raked in the AFL. I’d imagine he might be ready after a couple months in AAA. Or he might struggle there all year. All we have is hope!
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I suppose, but that's a big "all"
agreed on his power. Dude can crush it. I seriously, seriously hope someone can teach him some plate discipline. And I suppose it’s better that than lack of power, because it’s easier to teach. I have so much HOPE, but last time I had HOPE it hasn’t worked out so well (yet).
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
the thing is, he doesn't REALLY need plate discipline
if he can hit 300.
300/330/500 isn’t too terribly insane of a projection for him, and it’d be mighty tasty.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
but that's the problem. MLB pitchers will soon figure out he'll chase anything, and won't ever give him anything to hit
It’s not so much about drawing more walks as it is about laying off bad pitches. Walks are just a by-product of good discipline and pitch recognition. Without those he’s swinging at too much garbage and will never sniff .300 over a full season. (he’s never hit .300 over a season in the minors)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
This
to approach .300, you need plate discipline, even if it doesn’t necessarily manifest itself in the form of walks – the David Eckstein model. If you multiplied his Ks by 3.5, there’s no way he’d sniff a .280 BA.
Vlad Guerrero would like a word with you
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
If you think Fiasco will have half of the contact percentage of Vlad, you're high
Vlad has never struck out 100 times in a season
Oh, no way on END
I’m just saying it has happened before. :)
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
but good call, he hits .300 without much plate discipline
even though his BB% is still twice as good as Juan Francisco’s. I mean every comparison you can make just shows how historically terrible END’s plate discipline is.
I think about half those players don't have a place to play, barring an injury
I still don’t think END and Alonso can do LF. And Mesoraco will have to wait his turn.
But going totally in-house is an intriguing possibility. But it might be more worthwhile going after a LF rather than paying Rhodes.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 9, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well, injuries are inevitable. As is overall meh play from Gomes in LF
You figure at least one of the catchers will go down at some point, Rolen is a lock to miss 20 games minimum, and there is a strong possibility of Gomes and Janish sucking. Possibly even Stubbs too.
So between those positions, there is somewhere for all of those guys to play, and if they are burning the house down in AAA, I could see them figuring out a way to get them on the field.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
There's a lot of MLB-ready talent
I don’t think I’m really arguing against your premise. But hoping for an injury at a position of organizational strength isn’t a legitimate strategy. And mediocre, but not demotion-level poor play is just as likely as long-term injury.
I see a lot of depth, but not a ton of potential for a breakout to bring about a big improvement over whoever’s at the top of the depth chart. If Hanigan or Hernandez go down, how much better would Mesoraco be? Corky would probably come on as back-up, rather than Mesoraco on the bench or part-timing. Rolen will be out 20+ games, but who’s going to hit OK and play non-terrible defense at 3B? Could be Cairo just as well as Francisco. Can END or Alonso patrol LF any better than Gomes? And I’m not sure what to expect from Cozart or Negron, but a “breakout” would probably only be a cut above what Janish is capable of in 2011. Personally, I’m hoping Heisey or Frazier could somehow become fulltime options in LF. I think they’ve got the biggest “useful” upside in 2011. And maybe Frazier will get a look if Rolen goes down.
These are all intriguing players – and someone is going to do something surprising. But the depth isn’t such that making a trade would just be gravy. I think it’s a pretty critical move to preserve last year’s success.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 9, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Well, sure, we all agree we would love to see a trade
That’s all we’ve talked about for the last month. But it’s looking less and less likely to happen, so I’m just trying to offer alternatives to how the team could be better.
As for the specifics of what you said, I think it’s at least possible that one or more of the players mentioned could provide significant value over who is pencilled in currently. Especially in LF or at SS.
If Frazier gets his shit together, he’s easily an upgrade over Gomes. If Yonder can at least refrain from completely sucking, he’s a great platoon partner who will certainly hit better than the .709 against righties that Gomes put up last year. Maybe Heisey clicks, or maybe Negron’s offense is legit and he’s a real .750 OPS player at SS.
It’s obviously not an ideal situation, but the point is that it’s not necessarily the current 8 or bust. It’s a long season and there are a ton of permutations as to how the team could improve offensively.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
(was referring to Yonder sucking in LF, btw)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Agreed
And that’s the importance of keeping solid B prospects on hand.
I’m looking mostly in Frazier and Heisey’s direction for possible breakout contributions at the big league level next year. And I think Yonder’s bat will be harder to deny – I just don’t see how he plays LF. When I’ve watched him (SSS), he seems about as slow as Ramon.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 9, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
It's early December - far too early to think that Walt won't pull something off.
In fact, Walt’s sneakiness is my favorite trait of his.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
Most reports I've seen indicate we're overrating some of our MLB-ready talent
And by reports I mean, publications ranking our overall farm system.
None of the following seem to rate very highly:
Cozart
Valaika
Frazier
END
Heisey
My homerism wants all these guys to be “A” prospects, but my feeling is they’re all viewed as “B” at best.
Alonso and Mesoraco are the only two that seem to be prized.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 9, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
B prospects are not necessarily garbage
it just means they arent elite. guys like these are interesting because they have a good chance to be a decent, averageish major leaguer. there is a real value to that. they arent expected to turn into a cadre of Joey Vottos (though he himself was once a lowly B prospect), but they dont have to.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I love ya Chuck, but I don't understand...
…why you would go to the trouble of putting your comma outside your parenthesis, but refuse to capitalize the first letter in your sentences, leaving your wise remarks so difficult for Petey to understand…
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
e.e. scrabbles
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That posted before it should have.
I will, from this moment forward, capitalize the first letters of my sentences. I cannot bear the thought of causing poor Petey any more trouble than I already have.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Petey has reading problems and complains too much. :P
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
It's okay, cute lil' guy.
Why don’t you run off and get yourself a juice box? I think Little Bear is on!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for all the correct apostrophe usage! :)
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
I don't rate Cozart, Valaika, or END that highly either.
Frazier struggled, but I still think he can be an average MLBer, just at 3B. I know you hate Heisey so I won’t argue on that one, but I will say many, many scouts really like him. 225 PAs of league average production shouldn’t change that.
Also, we already have superstars at 1B and in RF. We don’t really need any more, we just need solid average contributors. It’s not a huge stretch to think that any of these guys could develop into that. It’s certainly no sure thing, but also not out of the question.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
If all we need are solid, average contributors...
…then we have solutions in house that get us close to that. But we have got to move some of these AAAA prospects for some MLB talent for this year.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
It's Walt's job to turn these prospects into the talent we need at SS & LF:
SS Paul Janish
SS Zack Cozart
LF Jonny Gomes
DH Juan Francisco
1B Yonder Alonso
SP Matt Maloney
SP Sam LeCure
LHRP Danny Ray Herrera
1B Daniel Dorn
RHRP Jordan Smith
I would trade all of these guys together for a package that landed us a top-15 starting left fielder and a top-10 shortstop. That’s not how trades work, but it’s Walt’s job now to turn these 10 pieces of gold into 2 pieces of platinum.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
Unfortunately, I think at least 5 of the guys you mentioned have little to no trade value
And only Yonder, END, Cozart, and Smith would have any at all.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Yet any two of these apparently are worth JJ Hardy and then some.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
Something else to consider
is that the Twins also sent Brendan Harris, who is worse than Cairo yet is owed 1.75 million this year. So there was a bit of a salary dump involved too.
Not that we couldn’t have easily beaten the O’s package (TWSS), but money would’ve been a major problem.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
True, but the larger point remains that...
…these surplus players could be amortized creatively to get us what we need. If Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson are worth SOMETHING, then it’s Walt’s job to turn Juan Francisco and Danny Dorn into SOMETHING we CAN use, rather than stuff bodies. Sometimes that’s a parlay trade, where you acquire undervalued pieces and package them for a greater payoff. Sometimes it’s a Walt deal that I haven’t thought of…but I hope he gets it done.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
I agree
My big offseason hope was that Walt would be able to leverage this AAA talent into something useful.
I’m still hopeful, but the budget seems to be hamstringing him. We’ll see.
On a related note, John Fay seems to take an inordinate amount of pleasure in how little the Reds can spend. He seems to go out of his way to say how a player trade or signing ain’t happening. Shut the fuck up, dude.
/rantover
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
That's because
the “+” button on his calculator’s broken. All he can do is subtract. Or, to him, suttrabct.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think we are all forgetting about Felix Perez.
He is 25, and will get a shot at making the big club this spring, he could be the perfect platoon partner for Gomes.
by Eastwindquinn on Dec 9, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't count on him contributing out of ST.
He has exactly 152 PAs above A ball. In those PAs (in AA) he hit .266/.325/.360
Also, he just turned 26.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Fun crusher.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
If I was a superhero, this would be my name
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Crushes fun with a single keystroke!
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
I understand what you're saying about preserving last year's success, but at some point you have to move further forward.
They can’t be satisfied being the division winners but being overpowered in the playoffs. At some point the goal has to be World Series or bust. Is development of young talent enough to move forward to that point? Probably not. So they need to look to outside talent via trade or free agent signing (well, trade) to get this team over the hump and to championships.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
With all the injuries they had last year, I'd be surprised if Boston looks to dump Ellsbury
Between Cameron in center and Drew in right, there should still be plenty of playing time for Ellsbury. Unless there’s somebody I’m forgetting.
by ken on Dec 9, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Darnell McDonald!
Seriously, though, they do have Josh Reddick, who was their 3rd best prospect coming into last year. He struggled in limited time with the Sox, but plays all 3 OF positions well.
They also have Ryan Kalish, who was their 5th best prospect last year. He struggled too in limited time in BOS but hit AA and AAA really well. He can also play all 3 OF positions and is very good in the corners.
Not that either of those guys are as good as Ellsbury, but they’re much cheaper and would do fine as 4th-5th OFers. I think it really depends on whether they want to re-stock the farm a bit after dealing for Gonzalez.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
It looks like they're going all-in for next year
My guess is keeping Ellsbury around as insurance and a bench bat is more important than re-stocking the farm (which always reminds me of Philly’s lame excuse for trading Lee).
by ken on Dec 9, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I don't know that signing Gonzalez and Crawford long term screams "all in" for next year
but you’re right, Ortiz and Drew come off the books after 2011, and they probably aren’t worried about restocking the farm.
Still, if they’ve soured on him and would rather have a league minimum guy be the 4th OF than Ellsbury, it’s a possibility, esp. if they can’t sign any impact relievers and someone is willing to trade them some.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Cameron an perhaps Papelbon, too.
That’s actually a shittoooon of freed up salary after this year.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 3:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Shittoooon
By far my favorite word of the week. Well done, sir.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 9, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
thanks.
Had to get as many o’s as there we’re zeros.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 3:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Is it sort of like a spittoon, but for...
No. No. I don’t want to know.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
I saw that, too.
And I also tried to stop the thought halfway through.
by the finest muffins on Dec 9, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
I had to pinch that thought off.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 9, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That thought was corny.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
well, then...
why don’t the Reds toss a SP in for Reddick or Kalish?
(Reddick and Kalish, btw, are two of the most white-boy, frat-star, sounding baseball names this side of Dustin Pedroia)
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Kalish, too
My Sox-fan friends are kinda bummed he’s not getting a good look (though not THAT bummed)
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
oops
yet again, didn’t read the posts. Not tryin to steal your thunder, ’creds, promise.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
whatevs. Talk to the hand
/1994’d
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Interesting TLR article
From one of the St. Louis beat writers.
I get what the writer is saying, but a youth movement headed by Rasmus and Garcia isn’t exactly a bad one.
you'd have to stockpile a lot of youth
that is all pretty close to the bigs, because STL doesn’t have a great farm and by the time half of it is ready to produce, Rasmus and Garcia will be on the wrong side of the equation
hmm
a) moneyball kinda don’t mean nothing anymore
b) who the hell would take Zaun over B. Anderson?
c) one doesn’t rebuild when you have one more guaranteed year of the best player in the game
d) I get really uncomfortable, still, by thinking of “2007” as a long time ago. Or any year in the 2000s
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
I just got off the phone with my dad
and one of his clients is a friend of Jay Bruce’s agent. He said that Bruce and the Reds have agreed to a 6 year deal for $51 million with an $11 mil option for the 7th year and are going to be announcing it soon. Now, I would take that with a fairly large grain of salt given that it is nothing more than hearsay, but if it is true I think it is a pretty good deal for the Reds, especially given the crazy spending that has been going on this winter. With $8.5 million a year, Bruce would have to be roughly a 2-3 WAR player for those 6 years to make this deal a push for the Reds. I guess we will see if it is true or not.
Watch it, ass blood.
by -ManBearPig on Dec 9, 2010 3:05 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
Not to be snarky, but why in the world would Bruce's agent tell your dad's client this?
But, if true, this would be a fantastic deal for the Reds.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
You made me go back and look up the contract I proposed in a fanshot a couple months ago
and I said 6/47 would be fair but favorable to the club, so I think the terms are at least believable.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i hope this makes Votto more inclined to sign.
Since they’re super best friends and their names both start with J.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 3:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I get a feeling Joey would be just as happy not getting a deal done before the season...
…for 2 reasons.
1. He thinks he will be as good or better next year and knows if he has another MVP-caliber year, he goes from Ryan Howard money to Albert Pujols money.
2. I think he has a small chip on his shoulder that it took so long for him to be brought up and he wants to make up for the “lost” Major-League salary years.
I think he goes from Konerko money to Howard money, personally
He ain’t in Pujols’ class yet
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
I'm not saying he will have an MVP-caliber season next year.
But I think Votto thinks he will and I think if Votto does that at age 27, a long-term deal for Votto is equal to or better than a long-term deal for Pujols.
Uh, no
APoo just came off of an average season, and was as good as Votto’s best season yet; he’s head and shoulders above every hitter in the game today (his OPS+ is 18 points higher than any other active player, and 27 points above ARod’s. The distance from Pujols to #2 Manny Ramirez is the same as from Manny to Carlos Delgado – and that’s just in offense). APoo also will be a free agent after ’11; Votto will not be free to negotiate with anyone until after ’13.
Pujols will ask for, and get from someone, ARod money.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
right
Votto has had one great season, and one very good season. Pujols has had like 973.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
My point is Pujols will be 31 this season
Votto will be 27… if Votto can prove with another MVP-caliber season that the last few years have been building process to sustained MVP talent rather than last year being a blip, then a 10-year deal for Votto is more valuable than a 10-year deal for Pujols because you’d get Votto for 27-37 as opposed to Pujols for 31-41.
I dunno, I'd still bet that Pujols would get more
in a 10 year deal after next season than Votto would. But it would certainly close the gap
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Votto would be within reason
to ask for the LAST deal Pujols signed.
Last year was Votto’s first MVP, and yes, he put up great numbers.
However, the numbers he put up don’t even sniff Pujols’ career averages, and Pujols has already had 5 seasons better than the one Votto just put up, both percentage wise and counting stats.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
i think some of us here are overvaluing our boy Votto. dont get me wrong, i love that he is one of us, but he’s nowhere close to what Pujols is. Votto has one MVP-type year, but Pujols has like 10. there is just no argument.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Just like Pujols was great 7 years ago
but he was nowhere close to what Bonds was doing.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
if you really think
Votto is going to have a Pujolsian career, i would love to have a toke’n of what yer smokin’.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
nah, not insinuating that.
Just using the Bonds > Pujols > Votto as a roughly equidistant comparison argument.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
If Votto turns out to be Stan Musial
then yes, that comparison will probably be accurate.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Walt saying he contacted them but "They weren't really ready to discuss it"
is interesting to me. I have a hard time believing they weren’t ready at all. I wonder if they are waiting to see what Pujols gets from the Cards as an extension before he negotiates.
If so, that’s not cool, because they are in completely different situations. That would also mean an extension is probably pretty unlikely.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
maybe
He was serious when he said he wanted to go to arb, just for the experience.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
The only thing that's unbelievable is the 7th year option
That’s typically a high figure because you’re giving the team some flexibility. I would think that if there really is an option for that year, it’s at least $15M.
by ken on Dec 9, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
especially since you'll have a hard time making the math work and not having the option be a paycut over the previous year
If you estimate $20M for the last 2 seasons combined, which would be $9.5M and $10.5M to get the $11 to fit, that means the first 4 have to be worth $7.5M a piece. The math just doesn’t work out on the option.
I think the 6/$51M is realistic though. A breakdown like:
2
4
7
10
13
15
seems reasonable for both sides, though it might be a little more backloaded, I guess.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
no, I think those 6 figures are probably about right.
The only thing I could imagine is Walt asking Bruce to take very little this season in exchange for all the years, and more later.
Like, maybe just 1 mil this season with the other mil added in later.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
What a deal!
That’s a nice price tag for a future 3 time WS MVP, 6 time gold glove winning, 5 time silver slugger award winner.
WYSIWIG
+ 7 time CY Young and MVP
He pitches too.
"Why not just throw an empty glove down at the shortstop position, it would be cheaper and have better range." - justin007000
I know you jest, but
I’d really like to know how fast a Jay Bruce fastball is.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 9, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
105
he reached it this year, wasn’t that him? or his alter ego?
"Why not just throw an empty glove down at the shortstop position, it would be cheaper and have better range." - justin007000
best Original Rumor since
Joey Votto was reported to have left the game early to accept a Knighthood from Queen Elizabeth II.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Still, it seems awfully specific to be entirely fabricated.
Then again, I’m still waiting for that bridge I bought to be delivered.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 9, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
he's no Reggie Jackson, let me tell ya
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
My cousin said his brother-in-law's dog-sitter's boyfriend...
…knows a guy at the local watering hole whose mechanic worked on Walt Jockety’s college roommate’s grandson’s pee-wee football coach’s wife’s car and he says they’ve also worked out a 7-year, $100 million contract with Votto with team options for the 8th, 9th, and 10th years at $15 million a pop. On top of that, they’ve traded Cordero for Hanley Ramirez, Paul Janish for Cliff Lee, and Mike Leake for Carl Crawford.
I guess it's pretty serious
"Those fellas make some good points," Baker said. "They're profane as hell, and they're probably gay, but they make some good points."
Dusty Baker on RR
by DTFH91 on Dec 9, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Part of the plan to get the Yankee's to eat some of the contract...
Walt’s a genius, I tell you…
After posting, I realized that and wondered how long until I got caught on that one.
Have we had our last daynce with laynce?!
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 9, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
He digs us baby, but he's gotta keep movin on- keep movin' on
/Petty’d
"Those fellas make some good points," Baker said. "They're profane as hell, and they're probably gay, but they make some good points."
Dusty Baker on RR
major league deal or minor?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I guess the Daynce Mix is going grunge.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Dec 9, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
that is completely terrifying
rec’d
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
where's the one with the same ladiee kicking some dude in the nuts?
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
ah, yes, photoshop
here:
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
That reminds me
I want a gin n’ tonic.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 9, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Just saw on a fangraphs chat
that Dave Cameron’s least favorite deal so far was the Arroyo extension with his favorite being the Harang signing. It made me chuckle a little
Kelly Rippa required to take it easy and rest a lot since breaking her hip
I hope this means that she’ll have to shut her perpetual mouth too!
http://www.aolhealth.com/2010/12/06/kelly-ripa-crutches-bad-shoe-choice/
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=kelly+ripa+crutches&cs=bz&fr=buzz
What a doofus..wearing heels and doing crutches…like anyone with half a brain gives a shit.
"Men today are pussies or gay" Aja Warren
Maybe it was FVA that "broke her hip"?
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Mrs. Fat Vegas is gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiissed
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
If I was Mrs. Fat Vegas I would have kept my own name ...
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Dec 10, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'd shag her rotten.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 10, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Somewhere, Alan just slid a pillow over his lap and is unsure why
by Brendanukkah on Dec 10, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Oh he's sure why
He needs to be careful not to fracture a hip though.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
That girl is just too scrawny
And you know she wouldn’t stop talking even if her mouth was full…
Not mention her ridiculous taste in clothes(and those shoes, please girl)…but I digress
I could never understand the allure of the ‘skeletal’ look
teach me alan
"Men today are pussies or gay" Aja Warren
Two points:
First, I am sorry that you have an opinion on her shoes. That’s not a good thing, brah. As a dude, the only thoughts that should come to mind when seeing shoes are “slutty” or “waste of money.”
Secondly, I agree that she’s too skinny. But if you don’t think I could make this woman gain 20 pounds in six months, then you would be wrong. Graeters, Skyline, Montgomery Inn, and girlie drinks alone could handle the job.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 12, 2010 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
I don't understand this thing you menfolk do where you police each other's masculinity.
No woman has ever chastised me for not loving shoes enough….
…but that’s because I really love shoes. And I strongly, STRONGLY feel that your shoes should not be the same color as your dress unless you’re a freaking bridesmaid. Jesus.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
by andromache on Dec 12, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm rec'ing this
Because I think if I were a chick, this would be hilarious.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 12, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
You mean you're not a chick? And you don't find this hilarious?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Dec 13, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I've been known to make a woman gain 20 pounds in six months via a high protein diet
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
by jch24 on Dec 13, 2010 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, but then she loses 8lbs every 9th month, right?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 13, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
the correct way to pose this is "amirite?"
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 13, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Should be in all caps too
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Three people will read this comment
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Are you referring to your own comment or to HLM's?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Where are my glass-half-full people?
This could be much, much worse.
Player A (2010): .270/.340/.370, 36 years old, 4 years /$56 million.
Player B (2010): .290/.353/.410, 36 years old, 2 years/$2 million.
Yeah, duh. This is a complete non-event.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 9, 2010 10:56 PM EST reply actions
The glass
is twice as large as it needs to be.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
by crolfer on Dec 9, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but he won all those titles all those years ago!
Like, before text messages, TiVO, or Buffalo Wild Wings!
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 10, 2010 8:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
i thought that said "he won all those titties all those years ago" at first
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Reds just signed Bruce to a six year deal!!
6 years / $51 million. Club option for a 7th year for $12 million.
Me likey!!
"Live every week like it's shark week. And dress everyday like you're gonna get murdered in those clothes." - Tracey Jordan
by RedinWrigleyville on Dec 9, 2010 11:46 PM EST reply actions
Wow, that guy's dad's client got good info, I guess.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
speaking of K. Ripa
here’s picture of her with her Dad…(fix those roots girl!)
She really doesn’t resemble him much though..
"Men today are pussies or gay" Aja Warren
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