Brewers Get Greinke
by Grahamophone on Dec 19, 2010 3:06 AM EST
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PrintA couple of sources are reporting that the Kansas City Royals have dealt Zack Greinke to the Milwaukee Brewers.
http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/brewersgreinketrade.html?24690
"The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is reporting that the Milwaukee Brewers have reached a preliminary agreement that would send shortstop Alcides Escobar, outfielder Lorenzo Cain and right-handed pitcher Jeremy Jeffress to the Royals in exchange for the 2009 AL Cy Young award winner, shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt and $2 million."
- http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=346109
I certainly did not see this coming. What does everyone else think about the trade? It obviously does not help the Reds' chances at a repeating a division title, but the Brewers have to make up fourteen games from last year. The Reds are probably going to lose some of that advantage to regression, but Greinke still is not going to make up the difference.
EDIT: The Shaun Marcum trade slipped my mind early this morning. These two key acquisitions are going to make for a very interesting division race.
Also, as stated in the comments, Fangraphs is now reporting that the Royals are receiving pitcher Jake Odorizzi. In addition, the trade may or may not include Jeremy Jeffress.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/kansas-city-nabs-four-young-players-for-greinke/
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Fuuuuuuudge
Great move by the Brewers. With Greinke and Marcum their rotation is going to be a LOT better this year. After Gallardo and Wolf their rotation was garbage. They’re now contenders.
Milwaukee’s supposedly sending Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar and Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress. Not a great return, but it could be okay if Escobar starts and Cain keeps hitting. Jeffress has a real live arm but has trouble staying healthy.
Let me fix that for you....
… Jeffress has a real live arm but has trouble staying healthy sober.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
… I picked the wrong word. (It’s really fucking early). His previous suspensions have been for weed.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2010 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
truth
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 19, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
You ever been traded for Zack Greinke
…on weed?
by Brendanukkah on Dec 19, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
been traded for?
this makes Justin readable!
Personally, I like to look on the back of a twenty dollar bill, on weed
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Also, Yuni Betancourt is supposedly going with Greinke to Milwaukee
If he’s the starting shortstop, I’ll feel better.
The Brewers aren't losing anyone that contributed significantly to last season
and they are picking up a significant upgrade to one of their biggest needs. Given that all of their key players (Fielder, Braun, Weeks, Hart, McGehee, Gomez, Gallardo, Greinke, Marcum) are all between the age of 25 and 29, these guys are scary. To be honest, they probably deserve to be considered the favorites in the NLC if the Greinke deal goes through. Not heavy favorites, but favorites nonetheless.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I agree
They picked up Shaun Marcum, and now this.
They’ll probably lose Prince Fielder next year, and Greinke the year after that. So now’s the time to make a push.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
exactly
they obviously feel the same way with the moves they are making.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
It'll be interesting to see who has the lower OBP:
Betancourt or Gomez.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
If I'm you though, I don't worry too much about Yuni
He’s essentially a good bet to replace Escobar’s abysmal production from last year (not saying much). As long as he and Gomez are batting 7th and 8th, you’ll be able to put some big 6 batter innings together from time to time.
It’s scary to me that the Brewers were 4th in runs score in 2010 and that was with a down year from Fielder and a slight down year from Braun. If those guys go off, ugh.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
It was an up year from Hart though, and one he's not likely to duplicate in my opinion.
That helped negate the net loss of production from Fielder. Betancourt adds some more pop to the lineup, but he’s awful in the field from what I’ve seen.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said though
with all of those players in that peak age group. The same thing happened with the 1990 Reds. All of their key players where in that prime age and while they didn’t have career years, they all had solid years and it worked for them. That’s what scares me about the Brewers.
That being said, the division is basically a toss-up, but I’d probably give the Berwers the slight edge.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Hopefully Julian Assange's RikiWeaks will experience a dip in production too
Or get hit in the face with a baseball again.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 19, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This high-brow pun
doubles as a lowbrow way to make fun of pidgin English pronunciation of “WikiLeaks.”
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 19, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
True.
Sometimes to his detriment.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Ok ok ok
yes, they are making a push to win NOW, but they cleared out the system to do it, thereby guaranteeing some ugly years pretty soon.
As a Reds fan, would you be comfortable with such a move?
They MIGHT win the central then lose to Philly, in exchange for a couple garbage years soon.
Who did the Brewers trade for in 2006?
They got Sabathia in 2008, when they might have won the Central, then lost to Philly in the playoffs.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 19, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
I thought you meant when the Reds made a shit move
which was 2006
My apologies.
Carry on. Oh, and thank you for pointing me in the correct direction for futbol jerseys. Apparently that place has awesome prices for authentics
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Looking like a two-font war for the Reds
Although the Cardinals have made a couple puzzling moves that look roughly lateral to me.
I think this should change the calculus on what Walt does with whatever remaining money there is, if only that it makes it more urgent to find some upside. There may be nothing doing – and Rhodes could be the best use of cash if he signs on the cheap side – but it feels like standing pat, which isn’t advisable in an arms race. The Reds have probably reached their quotient for shoring up last year’s success.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 19, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Death to Cimc Sans!!!!!
GOD DAMMIT I PAID THE CAR INSURANCE AND I DON'T FUCK PROSTITUTES WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT FROM ME!?
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 19, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
very, very,
glad to green.
and very glad it was you to post this, roast beef.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Let's hope they kill each other off!
So Garamond and Gill Sans can rightfully reign!
by the finest muffins on Dec 19, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
this is bad. This is really, really ,bad.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I agree
The Yuni comment was more tongue in cheek. Sure, he sucks. But so did Escobar last year.
I wonder if they’ll really go into 2011 with Yuni as their main SS. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them pursue Orlando, if for no other reason than depth.
Melvin says they will. There’s a glovey, light hitting guy in AAA and pretty much nothing in the system after that.
they will...
go into 2011 with Yuni, or go after Orlando?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I still think we shouldn't underestimate the downgrade they are undergoing at SS
Betancourt is a terrible, terrible player. He’s bad at everything.
Escobar, meanwhile, was a terrible hitter in 2010, but he at least has a minor league pedigree of being at least a decent hitter. FWIW, Bill James projects Escobar to be a slightly better hitter than Betancourt in 2011.
I still think this is at least a 1 win, maybe even 2 win downgrade at SS.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Escobar is not good either
people are overselling the terribleness of Yuni because of his reputation (UZR thinks he’s awful, but TZ doesn’t), and probably because it’s funny and easy to make fun of Dayton Moore. And perhaps also overrating Alcides Escobar, who was considerably worse than Yuni last season. As was OCab, for example (speaking offensively). And Escobar does not have a minor league pedigree of being a decent hitter – he barely cracked a .700 OPS in the minors, barely.
People wanted to go after Juan Uribe, yet Yuni is terrible at everything, when they are actually very similar players, depending on how closely you trust the defensive metrics (or which ones you trust).
No, Yuni is not a good ML player. But no, he is not really that much of a downgrade from Escobar either.
at least not Escobar c. 2010
That was my point. The Brewers were 4th in the NL in runs even with a Yuni like shortstop already.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
this is true, although I will trust Posnanski and UZR in saying that Yuni is a terrible SS
Also, kdgard, I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but Escobar OPSed .762 in AAA in 2009 and .797 in AA in 2008.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
That's fine, but if his last 2 years in the minors, in the 2 highest levels, he easily OPSes over .750
I think you have to count that a little bit more.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
not a great haul for Greinke
But given that he was publicly demanding a trade, and had a partial no-trade, maybe the Royals didn’t have much choice.
The Brewers were on Greinke’s no trade list, so he must have agreed to this deal.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
probably because the prospects they got have MLB experience that wasn't that impressive
If the deal had been done a year ago, it might look different since Escobar was still a highly regarded prospect. Instead it just looks like they are traded Yuniesky for Young Yuniesky.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I’m probably in a tiny minority that doesn’t include Melvin that would rather have Luis Cruz and his glove there than Yuni.
I'm not sure how tiny that minority is.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Melvin though
he loves the dingers and the vets. I don’t know that much about Yuni other than he is pretty unpopular.
No way. Offensively maybe, but Escobar is a top-5 defensive SS
Betancourt is terrible. The offense might be similar but they possibly downgraded SS by a win with the defensive drop.
And for CF, Cain might not be legit, but his defense isn’t that far off from Gomez, and Gomez’s offense is terrible. I could see that change being a 1 WAR downgrade too.
Not that this is a bad deal, because a good Greinke is worth 4-5 wins over the alternative, maybe more. But it’s not like they just signed Cliff Lee or something. They definitely made their lineup worse to make this happen, and also mortgaged the future to compete this year.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Dickerson gets on base, though
He’d be a great CFer for 90-110 games if he can stay healthy.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I read this as penises on the dollar
Then I looked at the username and thought, “oh, makes sense”.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
It would make even more sense if it was my username.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
That would be "penises on the arugula"
I also wanted to, I dunno, start a hashtag or something for bands’ grocery lists. The Replacements would have “Here Comes Arugula.”
by Brendanukkah on Dec 20, 2010 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
I'm on the right side of penises on the dollar, so I'd say I AM doin' it right.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Wait, so they're making a new dollar bill with Nixon on one side and jch on the other?
I think I preferred Sacajawea.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
So did I, giggity
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Coming up short
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Odorizzi might be the key to the deal.
Some scouts rated him the best right-handed high school pitcher in the 2008 draft. He’s a ways away from the big leagues, but is a quality arm. Jeffress hits 100 on the radar gun, but is one more drug violation from having his career be over. If he stays clean, he has shut down closer capabilities. Cain has taken a while to get to the big leagues, but he’s a terrific athlete and has potential to hit. Escobar, we know. Better, less expensive and less of a headache than Betancourt.
Good deal for both teams. I hate to see Greinke in the NL Central. Good move by Milwaukee.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 19, 2010 9:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Good review sir, thanks
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Great deal for the Brewers, but could the Reds have matched it?
What would have been a similar package from the Reds? My first thought is something like Stubbs/Hamilton/Ondrusek/Leake. Too much?
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
I would love Greinke, but I think I'd pass on that deal.
To me that seems like a helluva lot more than the Brewers gave up; of course, I’m sure I value our prospects/young guys more than I should.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs.
Orodizzi and Jeffress are apparently #1 and #3 in the Brewers' system.
Now, I don’t know how they stack up to others’ 1 and 3 prospects and I’ve read rumors that Jeffress isn’t actually in the deal, which makes it much worse for the Brewers.
Still, Grienke/Marcum/Gallardo/Wolf w/ Weeks, Fielder, Braun, Hart, McGehee… that’s going to be a good ballclub.
Indeed it is...
Or should be, at least. I’m still holding out hope that Walt has something up his sleeve.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs.
The only one I'd think is too much is Stubbs.
But he’s 26. Ondrusek is probably about right considering the other guys involved. My first thought was Yonder, Heisey, Boxberger, no Yuniesky (although that is addition by subtraction, so maybe the Brewers HAD to take him)..
Finding a matching offer from the Reds is tough
because we don’t really have a pitcher like Odirizzi in our system. Boxberger is probably the best comp, but two years older, and numbers aren’t as good, and was moved to the bullpen, so not really that good.
Sappelt compares decently to Cain. Escobar never was and never will be a good hitter, actually Janish looks like a good comp to me. I don’t know exactly why everyone was ever high on Escobar, but anyway. Jeffress has problems with drug tests, but DoJo is a decent comp.
Sappelt, Negron, DoJo, and Boxberger. Not really apples to apples due to major-league readiness issue, but that’s what it looks like to me.
Janish is a good comp if he was like 20 and had offensive upside.
I thought DoJo was a good comp for Odorizzi due to age/top level. Jeffress is a power pitcher, but by results I’d say Leake has similar value. Cain is more valuable than Sappelt due to MLB experience, although Sappelt might? be younger and thus equally valuable. not sure and not willing to do the research right now.
I’d say DoJo, Leake, Heisey, Sappelt
I put Negron instead of Janish
similar minor league performance, defense minded, both steal bases. Escobar is younger, but seriously, whoever expects Escobar to be significantly better than Janish at the plate is in for some disappointment. His expectation should probably be something a little better than Adam Everett.
I meant Janish was a good comp in that they have similar minor league performances, minus the steals. Clearly Escobar has upside over Janish because he’s younger.
I actually think that Heisey isn't a bad comp for Cain either
But that Escobar is the guy that we don’t really have a comparison for. Frazier would probably be closest, if he had made it to the major leagues last year, but we haven’t had any top middle infield prospects in quite a while, and while production-wise they’re similar, Escobar has always been a better prospect than Janish, Cozart, Negron, etc. Boxberger isn’t a horrible comp for Odorizzi, but I think a guy like Leake or even Wood could work. All things considered, I don’t think there’s a similar deal that we could come up with that I wouldn’t at least think about.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
I don't know. Cozart seems like the best comp to Escobar.
Highly regarded on defense, big questions about whether he’ll hit. He was never the prospect Escobar was, but he’s not that far off, especially after Escobar’s craptastic year.
As for the rest, we don’t really have a pitcher like Odorizzi or Jeffress, but Boxy and an Ondrusek wouldn’t be too far off. And Heisey is probably not quite as highly regarded as Cain, but that’s not a terrible comp either. Stubbs definitely has more trade value than Cain at this point.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I don't know much about Odorizzi
but Jeffress has been a huge prospect for years. Logan was the bottom end of the Reds top 20 last year.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I don't know much about Hamilton
but that seems like a steal on our end for Grienke, if you’re trying to find comps on our end of what the Brewers gave up to the Royals
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
2011 is going to be fun in the NL Cental...
kudos to the brewcrew for mortgaging the future.
Sign Carl Pavano!!!
Now, THEY have a good general manager! Wow! LYKE LOLZ
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
It makes the division a lot more exciting...
not saying I’d love the move if I were a Brewers fan.
Sign Carl Pavano!!!
I'm just giving you crap.
I think I’d like it if I were a Brewers fan… depending on how it works out…
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
You have an inordinate amount of vitriol for all things associated with the Cardinals
Let go of the hate, son. It will destroy you.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I look at crolfer's hate of the Cardinals like a Vietnam War vet
“I was there, man! I witnessed the August series knee deep in the shit! I’ve seen some things!”
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 19, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
do not like
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
He was part of your trade proposal
I think there is a lot of downgrading of the trade pieces and upgrading of ones you wanted to include.
I agreed that Ondrusek might be appropriate with the inclusion of Stubbs and Leake, though.
Stubbs is a 4~ tool player. Leake is a young, very valuable arm. My idea was Boxberger, Yonder, Heisey for Greinke.
I don't think the Royals would want Yonder though.
They’re pretty well set at first base and DH.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
FG's assessment, which I agree with:
This is certainly quantity over quality. There are no can’t miss prospects and no blue-chip, young stars. You have a raw, potential No. 2 or 3 starter, an eighth- or ninth-inning reliever, a slick-fielding, light-hitting infielder, and a speedy centerfielder with contact issues. I would rather have infielder Brett Lawrie, whom Milwaukee recently sent to Toronto for pitcher Shaun Marcum, than any of the four players in the Greinke deal.
In comparison, the Blue Jays organization was faced with a similar trade demand last winter with veteran ace Roy Halladay. Philadelphia ended up giving away a potential No. 1 or 2 pitcher in Kyle Drabek, promising catcher Travis d’Arnaud, and outfielder Michael Taylor, who was flipped to Oakland for first baseman Brett Wallace, who was later flipped to Houston for outfielder Anthony Gose (who ironically was acquired from Philly). Neither deal was a great haul for the team receiving prospects back and the Milwaukee package edges Toronto’s because there is one more prospect headed to the Brewers and both Escobar and Cain have MLB experience… although Toronto received the prospect (Drabek) with the highest ceiling out of all the young players that changed hands.
That's what I don't get.
Once Lawrie went I assumed that any chance for the Brewers to get Greinke was gone. The only thing that makes sense is that the Royals dropped their asking price when Greinke started putting pressure on them this week.
He apparently blocked the deal to the Nats, which might have left KC without a lot of options.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 19, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder why he blocked the deal to Washington?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
maybe he doesn't like big cities
Supposedly, that was why he wouldn’t go to NY.
Well, he said he wouldn’t mind, but his family was against it.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Maybe he wants a city with turn lanes
/fucking Washington
by Brendanukkah on Dec 19, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
He probably shouldn't play professional sports then...
Ba-dum-CHHHH
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I'm thinking with whatever his anxiety or social issues are, a big city would be bad for Zack
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
really?
he somehow lacks confidence or aggressiveness or competitiveness. No. The guy has those three things in bulk. He knows that he’s a great pitcher. He never backs off. And he HATES losing.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Doesn't mean he doesn't have some kind of anxiety issues.
And the constant attention he could command pitching in a big city could certainly magnify those issues.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
didn't he take time off within the last couple of years to cope with some personal shit?
I wanna say it was anxiety
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
it was a number of years ago
and then he came back.
Not all that different than Votto.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
but he doesn't like big cities, does he?
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
This issue has come up literally thousands of times on blogs and message boards.
The bottom line is, don’t be quick to assume he doesn’t like big cities or pressure just because he took some time off with what was reported to be anxiety issues. By many inside accounts, Zack is very well suited to pitch in pressure situations and handle big expectations.
by Brian B on Dec 20, 2010 11:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
IMO, it's not really the pressure situations and big expectations
Heck, the big expectations might be worse in a smaller city. If you’re the big name star in a small city like Milwaukee, it’s all on you. The entire city turns its lonely eyes to you. But if you’re one a bunch of all-stars in a big city like Boston or NY, there’s a lot less pressure.
But there are a lot of other hassles that go with big city life.
After a city doubles in size, it also experiences a 15 percent per capita increase in violent crimes, traffic and AIDS cases. (Of course, these trends are only true in general. Some cities can bend the equations with additional cops or strict pollution regulations.) "What this tells you is that you can’t get the economic growth without a parallel growth in the spread of things we don’t want," Bettencourt says. "When you double the population, everything that’s related to the social network goes up by the same percentage."
There’s also the increased media attention. There’s a lot more media in big cities, and they’re all competing to get eyeballs. Baseball players, even minimum wage bench guys, get scrutiny from the media that they’d never get in Milwaukee or Cincinnati.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Seriously?
You really think the number of AIDS cases and violent crimes matter to a multimillionaire ballplayer? He wouldn’t be living in the Bronx, just playing there. In fact, there’s no reason Greinke would even have to live in the city, be it NYC or anywhere else.
I think the media thing is really the only thing that is relevant. But really, a guy like Greinke is going to be under scrutiny everywhere, so that doesn’t really matter either. Personally, I think they Yankees are full of it if they were really that worried about him making it here, when he could’ve nestled into a rotation around CC, Hughes, et al.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
We are no different ....
Crime and social pressure are relative things. I can’t see how ballplayers are different from ironworkers in the parts of the community that they choose to notice.
Off-season might be different. Ironworkers don’t usually get 4 months off to travel the world. If they do, they’re laid off.
As for their privacy issues, that’s not new. Celebrity comes with a price, and it is a very nice paycheck these men earn.
But as for tolerance, the New York and Chicago media are more ruthless than John Fay is. Chicago beat scribes are also fairly inane, but they have a following and can create myths that endure.
We already are deciding – - by virtue of untold uninformed media, if Greinke is too much of a wimp to handle big-city life. What, Kansas City doesn’t have stop lights?
AHAHAHAHAHAHA CHICKS SUCK DUDES RULE. -- Andromache
Au contraire
Everything’s up to date in Kansas City.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
by bbjones on Dec 21, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not necessarily for Greinke
But for his family. I think the wife often has a lot more to say in the decision than most people realize. Call them whipped…but being a ballplayer’s wife means she’s the one running the household most of the year, basically as a single mother. She’s the one who has to live there.
Big cities have an energy that smaller ones don’t have, but they’re also stressful in a way smaller ones aren’t. I love New York…but I wouldn’t want to live there. I wouldn’t want to live near it, even. It’s like a supergiant, bending the fabric of spacetime all around it, even if you’re not actually living in it. Some people love big cities. Others don’t.
Personally, I think they Yankees are full of it if they were really that worried about him making it here, when he could’ve nestled into a rotation around CC, Hughes, et al.
Maybe they’re deluding themselves, but I think there’s a genuine belief that some players can’t handle the bright lights of Broadway. It’s something they consider, with both young kids from the farm system and the players they trade for or sign as free agents. (FWIW, Aaron Boone is often seen as a guy who couldn’t hack it in the the Big Apple.)
Plus, Greinke had the Yankees (and the Red Sox) on his no-trade list. Presumably not because he feared they wouldn’t contend any time soon. He didn’t want to be there.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
It's also possible that they were on the no trade list to force the team to negotiate a lucrative extension
before he could be traded.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
But you are arguing two different things
Did his family nix it, or did he? All the arguments I’ve heard are that his fragile mental state couldn’t handle the rigors of the big city, and I call BS on that. Not because I know Greinke, but because he wouldn’t be moving here to be a waiter and try to break in on Broadway. He’s already made it, and he can use that money to alleviate any of the pressures normal people face. Heck, he can live in Ossining with Don Draper if he wants, and only come into the city to play.
And Greinke made it clear he’d go to the Yanks this offseason. Maybe he doesn’t prefer it, but I don’t believe for a second that he couldn’t handle it. The Yanks just think they are so special that they can only take “special” players. All part of the bullshit that is the Yankees.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I don't think I'm arguing two different things
Doesn’t really matter if his family nixed it or he did. If either he or his family doesn’t want to be there, it adds to his stress. Heck, it might be worse if it’s his family who doesn’t want to be there.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Whatever
Point is, Yankees=pretentious and arrogant if they assume a guy like Greinke can’t hack New York. It’s being reported today that Greinke made it clear he’d go there, the Royals went so far as to ask for specific Yankee players, but they still balked, assuming he couldn’t handle it.
I hope they are happy with their decision when the corpse of Braden Looper is making starts for them in May.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 20, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dunno if they're right or wrong
But that’s what I heard, too. That they were concerned about off the field issues.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
yeah, I don't buy any of this
unless Boone purposely exploded his ACL in the offseason out of fear of NY, that argument reeeeallly doesn’t hold water.
I think its just a way that NYCers make themselves feel better. “Oh, Greinke couldn’t be a TRUE NEW YAWKER anyways.” and such bullshit. It’s not fucking Somalia, it’s New York City. I’m sure he’s a big enough boy to deal with it, social anxiety or no.
And as to the no-trade? Yeah, my bet is what Andro said. The guy got a new agent just for the trade. My guess is he knew what he was doing.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 20, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Boonie
It was that fact that he played really poorly, not the knee. Had a bad year at the plate. His defense was pretty good, but during the postseason he committed two terrible errors. We’re talking Slo-Cab would have gotten that errors. Coulda just been a fluke, but the media’s take was “blinded by the bright lights of Broadway.”
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
and the Grand Slam
was because he wanted the season over with as soon as possible?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 20, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
which grand slam was that?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
seriously?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 20, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Box score confirms.
It was the bottom of the 11th, first batter off Wake. I remember my Boston friends blaming me, as a Reds fan, for Boone.
I like my history more
its far more dramatic.
And still…you’d think walk-off home runs in the playoffs would cut a guy some slack.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I think that photo
is from his 11th inning walkoff home run.
It was a single shot, not a salami.
That was great, but it was Wakefield on the mound. Every once in awhile, Wake serves up a meatball. Boone happened to be at the plate when it happened.
I will say that Aaron Boone is fondly remembered by Yankee fans, even though they were disappointed with his play. That walkoff, yes, but also his honesty when he blew out his knee in the off-season. A lot of players would have lied about it, but he didn’t.
And he was always a favorite of mine.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Players making unusual postseason defensive flubs is not limited to big market teams.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
Great, now I just remembered Jay Bruce losing the ball in the lights
Where’s my drinkin’ whiskey?
by Brendanukkah on Dec 20, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
"Mama, 'nukkah's on that whiskey ageeeahn!"
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 20, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What other types of whiskey are there?
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 20, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
sippin' whiskey
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 21, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it was just that
They were already saying it before the postseason.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Unfortunately
Our gold glove, veteran, former World Champion third baseman could also be pictured. And he wasn’t in a big city either.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I still say that shouldn't be an error on Bruce
He lost it in the lights. A lot of scorers don’t score that an error.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Scorers don't call anything an error these days
unless you throw one into the stands, you have a good shot of escaping an error even if you misplay a ball pretty bad or fail to make a play at all.
they called it an error for Jay Bruce
It’s the scorer’s discretion, when a fielder loses the ball in the sun or the lights.
Personally, I don’t think it should have been called an error on Bruce because there was nothing he could do. What should he have done differently? If you can’t see the ball, you can’t catch it. You could see he was crouching down, which is what they tell you to do if you lose the ball in the lights. He still couldn’t see it.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I understand that scorers have discretion
My point is that a catchable ball was not caught. How it is scored is irrelevant to me.
not to me
Basically, it comes to down to was it Bruce’s fault or not? I say it wasn’t. Under the circumstances, it wasn’t catchable.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
As somebody who has only been here 6 years, and is therefore not a "true New Yawka"
I can agree with this. It’s not that we want to make ourselves feel better, but that many of us are truly arrogant, self-important pricks. Most of whom work for the Yankees.
I will also say that NYC is a really, really difficult place to live/survive/thrive, but that is inversely proportional to how much money you have. I can’t imagine how much more I would love this city if I made 13.5 million a year.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i could love Toledo with $13.5 million a year.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 20, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I would too, but only because I would have a sizeable "getting out of Toledo" budget.
And Mud Hens season tickets, I guess.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
you could OWN Toledo with $13.5 million a year.
But you’d be hard pressed to get half that back by selling it.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 20, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
oh. I see this joke was made.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Truth
And ‘romache makes a good point too. One of my history teachers in high school defended living Dayton in the same way: that it’s a low cost of living, and you get to take trips to the other, more “glamorous” places. I think about that a lot, just like I think about how I’d like living in DC a lot more if I had the money to actually live in DC. And afford to go out and drink more than once a month.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 20, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
i kinda feel the same about Chicago
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 20, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I guess there's
either going there or being there.
Being there, you get to leave the house a lot earlier to get where you want to go.
Going there, you have to leave earlier.
I live far enough from Chicago that I can avoid it, not have to pay for it and know generally where it is. Then again, I seldom go there and it ain’t because I can’t afford it. I just live somewhere else.
I also am not an overpaid, under-30 major league baseball pitcher.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA CHICKS SUCK DUDES RULE. -- Andromache
I could own Toledo with $13.5 million a year.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
i think he's fine with pressure of pitching
I don’t think he’s comfortable with the fame his pitching brings him
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 20, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
NY is a completely different animal though
I thought he would end up a Yankee just because they HAD to get him, but I was wrong. Good for Greinke though, he’s gonna kill in Milwaukee.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I didn't expect him to end up in NY
The Yankees had concerns about his off the field issues. As you say, NY is a different animal.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
This turned green
It probably should have been kept in the fridge.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 20, 2010 7:41 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah
As far as the MLB cities go, how’s Milwaukee rate in size? Just curious.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
it is around cincinnati st. louis
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a link
Not sure how accurate it is, but here ya go.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
don't cloud my argument with facts
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
No, word is he blocked the deal to WAS because he didn't think they'd compete any time soon
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
we can always hope that 2010 not 2009 is indicative of Greinke's future.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
2009 is definitely the career year
and he probably won’t come all that close to repeating it, but he’s still better than anyone we have, most likely.
his 2010 was still a solid year
just not Cy Young, 2009 solid
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
yeah
but 2010 wasn’t the year of an ace.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with Slyde that the Brewers look like the early favorites in the NLC this year
Their rotation is better than ours now, IMO (what a turnaround!). Their bullpen is still in question, and they’ve got some holes in the lineup, but it’s also still at least as good as our lineup, again IMO. A three-way race at the top, with a possibly resurgent Cubs team looks like it could be an exciting pennant chase this year.
Kudos to the Brewers on these recent trades. I have always thought that if the Reds don’t win the division, I hope for it to be the Brewers instead.
they don't have the rotation depth that we do
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I suppose this is something to be happy about.
If Marcum or Grienke get hurt, the Brewers are the same team as they were last year. If Carpenter/Wainwright get hurt, etc. Depth is nice.
top quality is nice in the playoffs
but depth is more likely to get you there.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
I wish we had a little more top-end though. I’d trade some of that depth for it, wouldn’t you?
of course
but i still wouldn’t want to trade too much of it, i think being 8 or 9 deep in MLB ready starting pitching is very useful, so maybe 2 or 3 of those guys.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I think we're on the same page then
though I sometimes worry when I start agreeing with you a whole lot ;)
That would be true
if Marcum and Greinke were comparable to Dave Bush and Jeff Suppan. If one is hurt, there is still one there.
*cough* Philly *cough*
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
They go 8-deep for legit ML starters (with a Chapman-esque swingman in the fold)?
good call though, they’re plenty deep enough considering the, ahem, top of their rotation.
8 deep?
I think we overvalue the reds starting pitching a tad.
LeCure and Maloney are 5th SPs, at best.
Bailey hasn’t proven he can make 30 starts
neither has Leake
Edinson is prob far enough away from Tommy John to ramp it up.
Wood is the shit. Bandwagon line starts here.
Cueto is good for 175-200 IP
Arroyo is dependable and never misses a start and bring veteran presence. But even I wouldn’t be surprised with a 5.00 era next year.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Dec 19, 2010 12:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What I mean is
8 guys who would be above replacement level (and probably pretty easily) if called upon to start.
8 guys who are all better than Micah Owings, or the Pirates 3rd starter, or whoever most teams would be calling on after an injury or two in their rotations.
Better enough
That we aren’t throwing in the towel on July 11.
But I would agree that the Reds need to score a lot of runs to make this staff look good. I have seen a lot worse.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
You are a Reds fan, right john?
If you’ve watched the Reds during the past decade, I imagine you will always and for the rest of your life be able to say that “you’ve seen worse” when it comes to rotations.
well, yeah
I can remember when we had four 20-game losers on the staff, including Fat Jack Fisher, Pete Ramos, the whole 8.6 yards, when they said – hold the Reds to 9 runs and you got a chance.
So I agree, but I wasn’t trying to overstate it either. I think this is a nice staff given the short time it’s taken to build it and the resources we had available. I like this pitching staff mainly for its attitude.
I don’t think it’s easy to upgrade it, however, without moving at least one large Himalayan mountain.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
Dan Sarafini
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
most MLB teams depend on guys like LeCure and Maloney to get them through a season
we just have them as minor league back up.
Pretty much the Reds always have 5 pitchers who are better than Jeff Suppan or PJ Walters.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Us? overvalue Reds starting pitching?
naaaaaaaahhhhhh
Cueto, Volquez, Wood, ?, ?
Arroyo is an overpaid piece of shit, who is really a BOR SP. The only thing he has going for him is he takes the hill every 5th day. Slyde could take the hill every 5th day. Justin could take the hill every 5th day. Fuck, even Mads could take the hill every 5th day.
LeCure and Maloney are our emergency starters, and should probably be between 1 and 3 in terms of SP in Louisville.
’Ol Hoss is an unknown commodity, who is either the next Walter Johnson, or the next Anthony Young. Feast or famine.
Hopefully Leake is legit, but once the NL figured him out in 2010, boy did they….
But yeah, we have plenty of SP depth….
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
We took the hill
found out we couldn’t defend it, said “what the hay, homey?”
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
It's homie, not homey
/street
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
He just means that we found the hill to be very home-like.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 20, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
Raven Riley'd?
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Dec 20, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wikipedia
the official source of the 21st century for all stupid shit, says it’s either “homey” or “homie” depending on if you are Latino or Mexican. I am a Lexican so I am entitlementionated to use either one.
Raven agrees.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA CHICKS SUCK DUDES RULE. -- Andromache
by johnu1 on Dec 20, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Entitlementionated = my new favorite word.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
by andromache on Dec 20, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
woman, please
I was on the Wood Bandwagon after his time in GCL in 2005.
I remember talking to a friend about trading Prior for Wood/Bruce back in the day
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I consistatly go 8 deep
Wait….what?
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
last week's news....
and none of this matters until they start playing games anyway….
FWIW, Philly has one of the best rotations on paper, EVAR!
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
ok, so we go 3 deep in the emergency starter dept.... great
they have 2 legit aces
we have zero….
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
so did St. Louis
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
St. Louis doesn't have the same lineup we do
nor do they have the same lineup the Brewers have
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Cards fans still see themselves as favs, at least over at VEB. You know Hoffman, Riske, Vargas and Coffey are all gone though. I can’t say the bullpen isn’t in question, because every bullpen is in question IMO. When I think its going to be good its not and vice versa. I think this one looks really good, so…
I just don't buy Cardinals as favorites.
The offense gets Rasmus back assuming he and TLR get along like good boys this year, Freese… but beyond them and Pujols/Holliday, blech. Rotation is good, etc, but Garcia’s due to regress, no?
Rated as -4.9 composite fielding last year.
Posted an outrageous .350 BABIP on 19% LD. I think Bill James’ .326 wOBA projection is probably right for him.
Jay isn't going to be playing every day, is he?
I thought they were going to give LF to Berkman and move Holliday to RF.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs.
oh yeah
but Jay will get plenty of time, seeing as Berkman is useless against lefties, and his defense must be terrible at this point as well.
defense
From what I see around baseball, there is a pretty high tolerance for bad defense in MLB outfields.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
that is, bad MLB outfields.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I could see him rebound against lefties. I do have a hard time picturing him running around the outfield though.
Even if he rebounds, he might get back to a .700 OPS
which is barely an acceptable number for a strong defensive SS.
Jay is even more useless against lefties than Berkman
Jay is a 4th OF type, nothing more.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
worse than .500 OPS bad??
cuz that’s what Berkman just did. Jay was better vs. lefties in 2010 than Berkman has been in 2 years.
I find your facts to be contrary to my argument, and therefore dismiss them
OK, fair point. Bottom line, between Rasmus, Jay, and Berkman, the Cards could struggle against lefties this year.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
El Matador gonna make 'em say "ole"?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
meh
After the fearsome threesome, Allen Craig is better… He had .400 wOBAs in Memphis in full seasons in ’09 and ’10 and Bill James has him pegged for a .350 wOBA
He’s our fifth outfielder right now
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 19, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think you make a fair point about the offense however
Pujols at .400 wOBA, Holliday at .390, Berkman and Rasmus at .360 is enough to make it a good offense by itself…
But then you take into consideration Schu will bounce back even a little, Theriot will be better than Ryan (strictly offensively), Freese/Tyler Greene/Allen Craig who gives a fuck will be better than Feliz/Lopez in 2nd half, and Molina is probably same if I’m being realistic
a large reason that people at VEB think we are the favorites is because your key players had career years that will likely not continue in ’11 (Votto, Rolen, Hernandez for one)
through my biased eyes of course I see the Cards as the favorites as all three are probably mostly equal or close enough to it that my fandom will give the team maybe an extra three wins they aren’t probably getting
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 19, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Net effects
You can’t project anything, even if your players on all teams have identical seasons.
Every team will change personnel. You can’t overlay a constant against a variable and derive a predictable outcome.
So being the favorite now is based only on what was, which would lean heavily toward the Reds.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
i hope you don't have the same approach in free agency
So being the favorite now is based only on what was
that is a large reason why dumb GMs hand out 5+ year contracts to players coming off career years… and i apologize that I fail to see how stats in baseball can be considered constant in any context
so basically you are saying that since the Reds won in ’10, they are the favorites…
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 19, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
i misunderstood that part sorry
re-reading i understand… “You can’t overlay a constant against a variable and derive a predictable outcome.” – true but it’s the best we can do to see how players will perform and we can’t just take their previous season and assume that they will repeat it otherwise like I said above – you end up overvaluing them in free agency due to one fluky season
to put it simply, i think it’s smarter to try and get your best estimate of future performance by using past seasons than to just go solely by the previous season
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 19, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
well, it isn't an arguable point generally
and it’s how they manage to ramp up season-ticket sales.
So. yeah, based on what was, I think the Reds would be fairly smart in promoting themselves as the favorite, not the underdog.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
i would agree with that
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 19, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Holliday will be just .10 off of Pujols' pace.
I think your projection of Berkman is generous. But I think the Cardinals will be good, too.
it is wide open
the Brewers have a plus offense and top of the rotation. But lack relief pitching and starting pitching depth.
THe Cardinals have a plus top of the rotation, decent offense, lack middle infielders, and have terrible defense.
The Reds have solid offense with question marks, amazing starting pitching depth, great defense, but lack an ace, and question marks next to Rolen and catchers, and also the bullpen will be interesting.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
really? Bill James would think I was being pessimistic
i know James has a tendency to be overly optimistic, but I’m about .025 points off what he projects at .386
also Berkman had a .281 BABIP, which is about 36 points off his career mark and .014 off of last year (James projects a .309 BABIP – .300 might be more fair)
and you’re right – Pujols had a .420 wOBA which was the third lowest of his career so I’m lowballing big time here… but other than that Holliday has had a .390 wOBA every year since 2005 so I’m not really that off there either
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 20, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
My dispute was only that "Matt Holliday is not .10 wOBA's worse than Pujols, it is a greater margin than that."
Berkman is getting old and bad.
Thinking about it, i see a similarity between the Reds and Cards offense
Big three for St. Louis of Pujols/Holliday/Berkman
Big three for Cincinnati of Votto/Bruce/Rolen
Stubbs and Rasmus are similar.
Our offensive catchign production and Molina aren’t too far off.
Phillips hits better than Schumaker.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 20, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Last year, anyway, our catchers hit way better than Molina
Who knows what’ll happen this year, but Molina is not a good hitter.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Holliday is much better than Bruce
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2010 4:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
flagg'd for lies!
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 26, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Obligatory
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 26, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You people are just massive homers
Holliday’s been wroth 18.1 WAR over the past three years, Bruce has been worth 7.8.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Bruce = 357 G
Holliday = 453 G
I’d hope that Holliday would have put up more WAR in more G….
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, my mistake
Holliday’s WAR per 162 = 6.5
Bruce’s WAR per 162 = 3.5
Three WAR difference though, that’s nothing. That’s only about the difference between Joey Votto and Chris Young last year.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
that first year was his rookie year
he missed serious time in 2009 with a broken wrist, and he came in to his zone in the second half of this year, about a year after his broken wrist (sound familiar?). His slugging percentage was .129 higher in the second half than the first.
Matt Holliday had 8 WAR in his first 3 years, Bruce has put up 7.8 WAR in his first 3 seasons.
Pretty comparable.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 26, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Keep in mind too, that Bruce didn’t come up until almost June of his rookie year. And since Holliday is about 7 years older than Bruce is, Justin’s comparison of the first three years is a lot more accurate.
You can’t be serious with that comparison.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 26, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
You = vivaelretard
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 26, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
and Bruce plays a more demanding defensive position.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 26, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
The corner OF spots are equal on the defensive spectrum.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 26, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, not quite.
I won’t say that Bruce is better at this point, but there’s no way you can say that Holliday is “much better”, especially when Holliday is at his peak and Bruce is still a young player who is getting better. I’d even be willing to take the chance and say that Bruce has a better year than Holliday does next year.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 26, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know that RF is more demanding than LF
however The Deal is a better corner defensive OF than Matt Holliday
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Another good point.
Calling Holliday “much better” clearly isn’t factoring in defense.
Man, I’m agreeing with justin and HLM on the same day? It must be a Festivus miracle.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 26, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
You guys are kidding, right?
I love Bruce as much as anyone, but Matt Holliday is a better baseball player than he is right now. I like Bruce much more over the next 6 years, but I think it’s probably 2012 before he passes Holliday. I could see it happening next season, though.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 26, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
right now, yes, Holliday is better than The Deal
interesting that they were pretty equal over their first 3 seasons, though
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Holliday has been one of the best players of the last decade
Top 30 among position players according to FanGraphs, despite not debuting until 2004. Over the past five years, he’s been the third best position player in baseball (assuming FanGraphs WAR is generally accurate):
And he’s coming off one of his best years ever and is still on the tail-end of his prime.
You’re arguing that Bruce is going to suddenly become one of the best players in baseball off of what, exactly? The fact that he was as good as Holliday his first three years? That has to be the most specious argument of all time. You know who else had 8 WAR over his first three years? Jeff Francouer – as have hundreds of other players. Maybe one in 100 have turned out as good as Holliday.
I can appreciate that Bruce is a talented player with the potential to be a star, but he’s not even reached that level yet, whereas Holliday has already established he’s a superstar. For the purposes of projections, you have to assume that Holliday will be significantly better than Bruce next year, with the latter having a slight possibility of being as good.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
For the purposes of sanity...
go back to VEB, have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 26, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I really appreciate that, mister
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
I understand you don't like this fella
but he hasn’t said anything trollish here. So don’t be an asshole.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 27, 2010 8:03 AM EST up reply actions
It's from Eddie Murphy's Raw!
Don’t tell me I’m the only one who’s seen it.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 27, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, I've seen it
But that doesn’t change that it was an asshole thing to say.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 27, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
He should have asked him if he knew who Branch Rickey is
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
ehh, I guess it was ass-ish.
But when you picture Eddie saying it while you type it (and while you’re picturing Jay Bruce point at a crying Holliday saying “HA-HA”), it doesn’t sound so much like an ass.
Didn’t mean to offend.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 27, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Ain't no thang, KMiB
I wish this particular fella didn’t get our collective dander all up so much. He’s not a saint, but I think we can approach his arguments with a bit more objectivity. Your comment just happened to be the one I responded to, but I think tons of y’alls was kinda assholes here.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 27, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If he used Head and Shoulders before posting here
We wouldn’t have to worry about his dander.
Head and Shoulders. Fixing dirty hair on dirty teams since 1961.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Holliday's career UZR/150 in left is 1.9
Jay Bruce’s in right is 11.5.
If you had to guess, which player do you think is benefitting more from UZR error?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 27, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
For the record:
ZiPS projects Bruce at 123 OPS+, Holliday 131.
Bill James projects Bruce for a .375 wOBA, Holliday .399.
So if we value projections at all, we can agree that Holliday will continue to be a better offensive player than Bruce, at least in 2011. But given the difference in their defense (regardless what you think of UZR, every single defensive metric thinks Bruce is a badass, and Holliday is just pretty good) I’d say they’ll be relatively close in value in 2011, and Bruce will likely surpass him in 2012.
So to say Holliday is “much better” is a bit of an exaggeration.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I don't know if the Cards are the faves over the Reds (probably within a win or two of each other)
but the Brewers certainly should not be favored over either team. They still have Wolf and Narveson in the rotation and their defense is going to be awful.
Sign Carl Pavano!!!
Wolf and Narveson are probably not worse than Westbrook and Lohse/Boggs
Their defense will be quite bad. Is the Cards defense going to be average though?
The Cards defense looks to be severely dented...
by swapping Berk/Theriot for Ludwick/Ryan. My guess: RF and 2B will be near league worst, C and CF will be near league best, 1b and LF will be above average, 3b and SS will be around average.
The Brewers on the other hand will be awful at 1b, 3b, LF, RF, and SS.
Sign Carl Pavano!!!
I forgot
That’s Berkman in RF, Holliday in LF, correct?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
They keep going back and forth...
on that. I believe Berkman to RF is the latest, but it probably doesn’t matter a huge amount.
Most people seem confident Berk can rise to the level of a Braun or Gomes. I fear a Vlad-like performance.
Sign Carl Pavano!!!
Gotcha.
I wonder what his arm is like these days…
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
He has a dish for an arm?
Ohhhh… a rag arm… Gotcha.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
sorry, the best I could find on short notice for a rag
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I refuse to take part in this GIS reindeer game
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
go away, son, ye bother me...
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
I think they said Holliday would be moving to RF.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs.
I would guess that ....
between now and the time they need to have this problem solved, St. Loser may well find somebody else for LF. Berkman has to be a plug.
Cork.
Plug.
Something you stick in something.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
For $8 million?
Don’t think so. (Was it 8 mil?)
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
It's cardboard money
If he succeeds fine, by 2012, they replace him. It ain’t like trying out various kinds of ice cream, I realize. But nobody in his right mind thinks this is a long-term solution. What’s 8 million dollars these days?
I give up.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
Right, I think they see him as the solution for 2011 though.
I can’t see the Cardinals paying a guy $8 million to warm the bench.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
He can play 3 days a week, pinch hit
If he gets hot, he can lead the team for a week. He’s known for that. It’s not that big a gamble. Can’t find somebody really better for the money a veteran like him is going to get. He isn’t signing a minor league deal.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
If he's making $8 mil, he's gonna play a lot more than three days a week
They’re still the Cardinals, not the Yankees or Red Sox.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
He could play every day until July 1
Then go on the 15-day, be day-to-day after that and pick it up again in September. Average: 3-4 games a week.
Just sayin’. Obviously they want the guy to play ball. They could sign 4 utllity guys for this money. I don’t see LB as a benchwarmer with a gold parachute.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
You can't set yourself up like that with all these RR pervs.
Something you stick in something.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I live dangerously.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
It seems like a couple of really bad drops
make him seem a lot worse than he is… although your point stands, I’d guess he’s closer to average at defense.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
well
attempting a sliding catch and having the ball bounce off his body for a ground rule double is in my mind, but he seems slow as hell to me and not particularly good at anything (defensively).
He looks really robotic and ungainly out there...
and taking one off the stones to lose a playoff game hurt his rep. But the advanced stats have him as consistently, unwaveringly above average by a bit.
Sign Carl Pavano!!!
I'm actually with you here
I like UZR when it supports what I say, hate it when it doesn’t.
BRWAR has Gomes as the least valuable member of the Reds in 2010, and that just doesn’t seem to make sense to me.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
It makes perfect sense to me
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2010 6:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Among position players, I have a rough time coming up with anyone clearly worse
though I’d rather have Gomes in LF than Cairo, if that is the question.
If I am a 3b coach
I run on that rag arm all fuckin day long.
These ratings seem pretty fair though
Molina is a great catcher, but catchers don’t help on BIP, which is what I think of for team defense.
Are Hart and McGehee really “awful” defensively? They seem to be average.
Hmm
I think the positional battles between CIN and STL at CF and C should be pretty interesting. Both should be near the top of the league.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 19, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I was always under the impression
Rasmus was a RF playing Center. And Stubbs is a gazelle playing center. So there’s that.
And Molina played 138 games last year, he’s gotta be hitting the wall.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Yeah
He’s played 276 games the past 2 seasons. I don’t know how long he can keep that up.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 19, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Rasmus has always been a centerfielder and is generally regarded as a + fielder
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2010 4:06 AM EST up reply actions
UZR says over his career he is a "+" 2.6 center fielder
so for once he isn’t full of shit.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 26, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
+2.6 for a career isn't that great for UZR
especially when you consider Young Robert Stubbs is 6.2 for his career (with a 0.0 for his 2010 season).
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
i was being a bit sarcastic.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 26, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
that is why i put the plus sign in quotes
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 27, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I don't understand
He’s not universally recognize as a + fielder, but the majority of scouts think he is. As does UZR and the other metrics.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Based on what?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 27, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
Career UZR/150 in center is +1.9 runs
Career DRS in center is +5 runs. Career TZ in center is +17 runs. (DRS and TZ are total runs, not per 150 games).
The fans scouting report has him at a 56 rating for 2010, where league average is 50. It has him at a 76 rating in 2009.
All of the evidence points to him being an above average fielder.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 27, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
I confused Holli-boy and Rasmus
in the conversation. My error.
Personally, I don’t think having a DRS that matches a UZR means much though – same questionable at best data and Totalzone was a wild kludge to come up with something to guess about minor leaguers, but since it arrives on Fangraphs it’s assumed to have meaning. I don’t think Rasmus is all that great defensively, but i’m a fan of him as a player. I could see him really taking a step forward offensively, partly by protecting the plate in 2 strike counts. I wonder how he’d do elsewhere too.
Totalzone for the majors is much better than for the minors
It’s a step down from UZR in terms of rigor, but a step up from RZR or FRAA. And it uses a different data source than UZR does.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Dec 27, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this, although I think you are overvaluing Rasmus' defense
and there are a lot of good CFers in the NL
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
poor Weeks is going to be eaten alive.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
perhaps walt has a trade in the works
Votto and Bruce need a third big bat in the lineup. Rolen will have problems replicating last season.
Just a hunch but BP is getting expensive, alonso is blocked by the NL mvp and there are extra young, cheap starting arms in the system.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Dec 19, 2010 11:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions
if we can only get one or the other
i’d rather get a bat. Yeah it would be nice to have an ace, but a left fielder or a shortstop would go a long way.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure which would make me happier....
getting rid of The Franchise, or something awful happening to Young Robert Stubbs
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
I do
but I’m still surprised at how well we played in 2010. While I’m glad we made the playoffs, and obc got me a sweet playoffs tshirt (thanks again!), it still feels like smoke and mirrors and I just want to see us do it in 2011 before I really believe
10 years of suck will really make a fan skeptical
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I'm not sure why those would make you happy.
There is no one to replace either of them. And they’re both among our top 5 position players for sure.
Nice deal
The nicest aspect of this trade is that a premier guy is willing to go to a city not named Boston, New York or Philadelphia.
While this means the Reds need to keep their tool sharpened, it also means there’s one more contender for the title. That’s good for the game.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
I'm scared.
Brewers offense matches up very well with Reds’. Might even be better.
Brewers pitching is better 1-3, but Reds have much better depth. Push over 162 G season?
Reds clearly lead fielding, especially after Escobar is replaced by Betancourt.
Scared!
-j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
we will do a group hug just after vespers.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
The Brewers were equal to us last year, with down years from Fielder and Braun
Safe bet they are equal to us again this year, offensively.
I’m scared too, the Brewers are legit now.
(and everyone is ignoring the Cubs! Insert 100+ years joke here!)
Don't forget bullpen: Advantage Reds
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
All this Reds-Cardinals stuff almost made me forget about the Brewers.
They just made a great move and they’re probably the biggest competition right now for the Reds.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Laugh if you will
and mostly, I do but the general outtakes say the Chicken F … Cubs aren’t as bad as they looked. I don’t know if all that’s true (Sonny N Cher tune here) but they aren’t nearly as bad as they were, I think. Maybe.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
They still suck.
I’m thinking the Cubs and Pirates will fight for the cellar and the Astros are going to surprise a couple of people, though still not seriously compete.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Um, if Zambrano is better next year
They can get back to .500. That doesn’t win titles but it keeps a team from going 14-4 against you. If the Reds split their series last year against Cubs, we finish second.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
Yeah
That’s a big ‘if’ though. Carlos Peña replacing Derrick Lee is a fairly lateral move, I think.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Pena is feel-good
So is Kerry Wood. Gives the fans reason to believe the Cubs are bringing in the sort of players they need to contend. Fans are comfortable with veteran names this time of year. Come March, all that changes. Pena is an OK signing. He won’t hurt them.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
Did they bring Kerry Wood back?
I kept hearing rumblings of him going to the Yankees.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I think the Cubs announced his return yesterday.
$1.5M I believe.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs.
he said he went back because Santo died
i guess he really didn’t like Ron Santo.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
that's outstanding!
going back to a team b/c a guy is dead, and a guy you apparently could not stand
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Cliff Lee only just heard about Harry Kalas
by Brendanukkah on Dec 19, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
but Kalas was a good dude
I haven’t heard much good said about Santo
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair
Santo couldn’t stand Santo in the later years.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
fify
Santo couldn’t stand Santo in the later years.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 20, 2010 4:32 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Do you see the Cardinals still being on the top plateau competing with the Reds and Brewers, or more just below?
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
That came out incredibly awkward, but you get what I mean.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I see it as kind of a three-dog race right now.
Just having Carp/Waino/Garcia (regression, please?) gives the Cards a shot 3/5 days.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Here is the amusing part
well, interesting.
A year ago on this date, a “three-dog” race would have included
Chicago
St. Loser
(maybe) Milwaukee
NOT
Cincinnati.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
My optimistic viewpoint was ...
… stay ahead of the Pirates to keep from being laughed out of the league.
That was all the way up to 2008.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
The Cubs don't suck, crolf
and however bad Hendry might be at allocating it, $140 million is going to keep you out of the cellar pretty easily, they won’t finish lower than 4th, and they might do that with a winning record.
we all can
I dream that the Cards finish 4th, but I won’t come out and declare that I think it’ll happen.
Then again, 100 years is something to dream on.
we can all jiggle the math
The difference between the Cubs and the Reds last year was one win a month.
I read all the sabremetrics stuff here about guys adding 2 or 3 wins to a team …
What is Zambrano worth if he pitches even CLOSE to what he can do? For a whole season.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
An impostor
Since he seems Haranged. He’s not going to approach his peak again.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Alright so we missed out on Grienke
I guess this either sets up the package for Upton or HanRam
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 19, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions
Dave is right
we got ’em right where we expected them to be.
I say we strike while the fire is hot.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
x
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
by jch24 on Dec 19, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Their new meme with the family tech support kid is one of the best ever
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 19, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think I need to answer this question.
In our hearts, we know the answer, do we not?
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
Trust in walt
He does his Jedi shit in the period after the big, splashy moves are made
The newscast in the beginning of I Am Legend
picks the Cubs to go to the World Series…
du-hurrrr
This movie already fails.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I didn't see it
But I’m confident in saying that The Omega Man is better. Such a great film!
by Brendanukkah on Dec 19, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see the excitement for Marcum.
He has an excellent season, but he pitched out of the bullpen a bit the season before. He is just as likely to be Luke Hudson as Roy Oswalt.
Same goes for Jaime Garcia on the Cards. It was a damn fine season, but I’m skeptical until I see more results or a greater upward trend (i.e. Cueto).
So yeah, Greinke’s a great big fucking bomb. But it makes it into a 4-team race (I think the Cubs have a good shot as well). But they all have to play each other, so at least it makes it more fun
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Marcum hasn't relieved since 2007
He had TJ in 2008 but looks to have returned completely healed. A 3.64 ERA in that division is pretty solid.
Marcum has been dealing with injuies the few years
When he returned, he was given the #1 rotation slot and performed up to the task. Good competitor, which is what you say about someone who doesn’t throw 98.
by Brian B on Dec 20, 2010 1:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
//maloney'd
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 20, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
OMG bombs!
Not.
At least he’s not going to the Deadbirds.
Who is Grahamophone? Clever name.
I don’t fear the Sausages. They’ve had that offense for centuries now and where has it gotten them? The Reds have pitching depth that makes the whole baseball world drool like a sleeping drunk. At the moment the only thing that could draw me back to the USA is a Reds October, which I am planning for. Oh, and the 3 U2 concerts I’m seeing in July (shut it, haters.) Or if they deny me a visa extension. Or another war, I guess, though that may be interesting enough to stay for.
Anyway, what’s that kind of dog snack with the annoying commercials with the talking dog? Snausages? That’s what I think I’ll call Milwaukee from now on. Their bullpen is atrocious, their starters minus Greinke are mediocre (does Ben Sheets still play baseball?), and their defense is Little League. Pbbt.
And the Chub$ chuck it up every year. It’s Cincy-Demon Louis this year, and the Reds will come out on top.
She won't answer that, I'm guessing, but I'd just ask, who do YOU like?
Doesn’t seem like there’s much there.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Axford, Loe, Kintzler, McClendon, Parra… most prospect evaluators love Braddock, but I’m not as confident. The only old guy who could go bad is Hawkins. He should be all right if he can throw hard again. In ST, it’ll be DiFelice coming back, Egan, and James competing for a spot. I’d guess that 1 or 2 guys who could stay in the majors will be stashed in AAA. It’d be nice to have Jeffress working on starting in AAA, but available to close if Axford is a one year wonder, but that ain’t happenin’.
It is kind of a scrapheap-o-rama. I’m not that great at predicting bullpen pitchers and things are sometimes the opposite of my expectations. I like to think its generally hard. I think it looks really good so maybe that means they will suck.
Hmm, I like Axford, and Loe is solid enough
but Kintzler and McClendon just managed to break into the bigs as middle relievers at age 25, and don’t strike anyone out really. Parra, and I am a fan, but he is the most inconsistent guy on the face of the earth. DeFelice and Hawkins should be serviceable or maybe even good if healthy. Braddock is something of a wild card who could be quite good or he could walk the bases full in a few too many close games.
Not a great bullpen, I am afraid. Will probably be somewhere below the middle of the league, say 10th. The much improved rotation will improve the bullpen over last season, just on its own.
Axford and Loe bounced around too
You could make the same argument against them. McC and Kintzler are groundball pitchers. They’re also both converted starters. I’m curious how many Ks take a pitcher out of the “don’t strike anyone out” territory.
Parra’s numbers as a reliever are different than as a starter.
You certainly aren’t lacking for confidence in your predicting ability.
13th in the league last season
you think the bullpen is that much improved?
I am pretty confident, yeah – I hope I don’t rub people the wrong way. Not my intent.
Well, how did they earn that 15th spot? Hoffman sucking mightily early, Hawkins pitching injured, Coffey after he injured his finger, Vargas kind of coming undone, maybe Loe after being overused. Hoff, Vargas, Coffey, and Riske are gone. The guys who did well are still there and the guys they brought up who didn’t get a lot of innings looked really good. After that, they have several guys who profile as good relievers. Its enough guys so that if Hawkins is old and creaky or any other guy stinks, someone will just take their place. The achilles heel IMO is closer. Axford was really good, but will he be next season. I don’t think that’s all that certain. If he tanks, I could see Melvin making a really bad trade for an old, established closer and sending away another quality prospect.
To me certainty over things inherently uncertain comes off as youthful ignorance unless its the wisdom accumulated by some octogenarian.
Actually
I think Coco wanted out and he never gave Melvin a chance to match Jocko’s offer. If not for the bad blood or whatever it was, Coco might have gotten a bigger contract and not switched teams.
Yeah
As I recall, the Brewers offered something like 4 years at $44 mil and weren’t given the chance to match the Reds’ 4 years $46 mil offer.
I never dogged on the Kriv-dog as much as some others, but this one still makes me furrow my brow.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 21, 2010 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
The worst part is that it was so reactionary
The team had a terrible ’pen in 06-07, so instead of signing a few mid-level guys to 2 year deals to shore it up, he signs the most expensive guy he can find. To a 4 year deal.
It was just so unnecessary, even if the team had been in a position to compete in 08.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I wonder if Jocko and DM
are competitive. I’m pretty sure they’re buds. Is it crazy to think that might have played a part?
But if you want to talk reactionary, nothing can top Melvin constantly paying guys like Suppan and Bush and then shipping out 5 players with 29 years of potential control for 2 pitchers with 4 years of control. If I ever say anything that you don’t like and you want to jab me in the ribs, just say “Yuni.”
Wait...
You aren’t cool with the Greinke deal?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 21, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
There's a half a brain joke here somewhere
Hey did you know that people can live with one side of their brain removed? Worthless fact o’ the day.
depends whether they're right or left-brained.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
does cracked allow hotlinking?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
It does kind of have 2 sides...
It sets them up nicely for the next year or two, but they have a pretty empty farm system.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Yeah, I read somewhere that the two typically vacation in FLA right about now
but Melvin couldn’t make it this year. Probably because he was busy making his team better.
Still, I hear you. You guys got way, way better, but I hope you enjoy 2011, because 2013 and beyond could be scary.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
so, then
this is all a ruse to artifically inflate the value of tickets to some of the more non-descript games.
Hmmm … I think there is a Dan Akroyd movie somewhere to be discussed.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
Which concerts are you going to?
I’m looking at the one in Chicago on the 5th since I’ll be up in the area anyway.
Tell me more Sister D...
Is the glass half fixed or half broken…
"Men today are pussies or gay" Aja Warren
That's racist I think
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 19, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
it is not!
in this context knowing what I know he is saying, it is definitely not
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
The Giants game
was positively insane. I cannot believe they blew that lead.
I think that punter’s gonna lose his job.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I like the punter's face
while being yelled at by Coughlin. You could see him try to think of something to say and then he just went blank – resigned to the fact he was going to be hitting the pavement.
after the game
He said the snap was high, and the kid did the best he could with it.
Still might be hitting the pavement…
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Throughout the final minute
All the announcers were talking about was that Dodge wasn’t very good at directional kicking and that Coughlin couldn’t rely on him.
"Those fellas make some good points," Baker said. "They're profane as hell, and they're probably gay, but they make some good points."
Dusty Baker on RR
The last 8:00 of the PHI-NYG game might have won me ~$800
I was dead in the water until Vick went nuts, and DJax put me over the top.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
yeah
Maybe they should have let their field goal kicker try instead.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Trains!
Of all the words written after the Texas Rangers’ playoff ace turned down a new contract, the most jarring might have come from his wife, like Lee a native of Benton, Ark.
She prefers Philadelphia for the cultural opportunities and the dining, she said.
But mostly — she really likes the trains.
Kristen Lee wanted her husband to return to the Phillies because of “how easy it is to get from point A to point B” in Philadelphia, she was quoted as saying by the Philadelphia Inquirer.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Dec 19, 2010 10:09 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I hope he didn't make his choice based on his wife liking the trains in Philly.
Talk about being whipped.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
by sexsalad on Dec 19, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't a trains comment worth an automatic rec?
Seems like that was once the deal.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
HAHA AT LEAST IF SHE'S TAKING THE TRAIN SHE WON'T BE DRIVING.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA CHICKS SUCK DUDES RULE.
(…do I fit in yet?)
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
by andromache on Dec 19, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
she has to drive to the train station
railroad crossing look out for the cars can you spell that without any R’s?
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
I managed to get to a train station this week without driving. Public transit is the best!
And my train didn’t get into town until 4am because we hit a car. No, really.
by the finest muffins on Dec 19, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You can get hit by a train around here
but you need to drive to get to where they are.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
the only RR mobile update i ever made was
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 19, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I ain't sayin' I don't believe this
Ain’t sayin’ I do.
Cultural opportunities for people who have the resources to travel the globe on the first 4 numbers of their Visa card aren’t going to … well, what the fuck … this just seems so “View” to me.
This is just funny, is all.
The man is a flat genius and i agree with everything he does. -- some troll describing Sir Walter Jocketty
I really meant I found it interesting. I didn’t really draw any conclusion from it, although I love good mass transit.
mass transit is on my shit list.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 20, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Ah, the classic Philadelphia selling point
“It’s pretty easy to get to New York.”
by ken on Dec 19, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe when she says "Cultural opportunities of Philadelphia"
she means, what? Making fun of black people and eating pork sandwiches?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I would guess Texas is better for pork sandwiches
Philly cheesesteaks are made of beef. Or a reasonable facsimile.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
but true Philadelphians eat the pork n' greens sandy, right?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
yup
hot roast pork with broccoli rabe
dimic’s at reading terminal market, FTW!
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 20, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, n and m are close to each other on the keyboard
unlike Y and K
I gotta give it to Tony Luke. The man can’t really do a steak, but he sure as shit can do a roast pork with broccoli rabe
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 20, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
reasonable facsimile?
they’re shaved ribeye!
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 20, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Racially, I don't see Philly being worse than any other big city
And probably a lot better than places like Boston or Chicago.
There are many, many things I love about Chicago
as heretical as that is to say for ‘Wawkeeins, but their traffic is mind bendingly F’d up. The F’n politicians who dismantled the old mass transit system to build roads and more roads and more roads… well, they’re all dead now, but man what a stupid thing to do.
The Please Touch Children Museum!
by Brendanukkah on Dec 21, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
green, just like he likes 'em
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
by jch24 on Dec 21, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We took the little one there not long ago
It was tons of fun, but having the security guys wear trench coats was a little off-putting.
by ken on Dec 21, 2010 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It doesn't have to be any good to be better than Texas and Arkansas.
The mere fact that it exists is something.
by the finest muffins on Dec 20, 2010 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
It really depends
The subway’s limited. The regional rail (going from the city outskirts or suburbs into the city) is great because it was privately developed by the Reading and Pennsylvania RR co’s, before cars were a staple.
This is funny to me
It’s a good thing he didn’t choose the Yankees, since there aren’t any good restaurants or cultural opportunities in New York.
Oh, and no trains either.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
C'mon guys. This is a baseball player's wife being pestered by the press to say something nice about Philadelphia.
I don’t expect her to use decision matrices and Bill James City Similarity Scores.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
I guess Mrs. Lee prefers trains to subways.
Kudos to her. Subways are un-fucking-natural. They’re creepy.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
actually, I agree with this.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
that's why I always do like Tom Cruise in Risky Business
and drag the homeless people off of the subway before I starting getting nasty in the train car.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
that should be your next book
how to be more romantic when gettin’ busy in public
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
you can talk to me former roommate about how to get people punched in teh face on the subway.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 23, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, the Reds start the season with a 14-game lead on the brewers?
by Brian B on Dec 20, 2010 9:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Its a new rule Brian
This season each team will receive a ‘games’ handicap, based on wins and losses and how creepy their manager was ins 2101.
(Kinda like bowling leagues do).
This bowling thing originated in England.
"Men today are pussies or gay" Aja Warren
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