Have the Reds really hit the budget ceiling?
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 13, 2010 12:54 PM EST
in Off-season
Email
PrintAnd, if so, can they vote to raise it?
In his Reds Insider yesterday, John Fay sounds a familiar refrain on belt-tightening. Even in light of Arroyo's salary deferrals, the Reds are left with very limited payroll space:
The Reds have no room in the budget for even bargain-basement free agents. They are reluctant to trade their young players. And even if they were willing to give up young talent, they can't afford to take on salary.
According to Fay, the benefits of the deferral are limited to helping the Reds meet their budget and to possibly make a bid for Arthur Rhodes. If the budget is flat from last year at $76.2M (guaranteed salaries plus pro-rated bonuses), then this claim could check out. Using reasonable estimates for arb-raises and the 2011 salary provided in Bruce's extension, the Reds may well only have around $2-$3M to throw at the Scholar (aka the Colossus, aka BAMF).
But we're heard that payroll is going to be a few million north of last year - possibly to $80M or above. Depending on the payroll increase, the Reds could have up to $7-8M to spend. This is an educated stab in a barrel, but I'm projecting the payroll currently in the $73-74M range, with a liberal estimate of $17M going to Volquez, Bray, Burton, Cueto, Votto and Bruce and the rest tied up in guaranteed contracts, buyouts and pre-arb players who are likely to make the Opening Day roster. This projection leaves five spots to fill, including the Arthur Rhodes' High Chrysanthemum Altar of Bullpen Sovereignty. If four spots are filled at league minimum, that's another $1.6M. The question becomes: Do you give Rhodes most of the remaining cash or take a pass and try to turn it into a significant upgrade in LF or SS?
My projection could be off, or the payroll increase could be myth, but based on the information available, the franchise seems capable of adding a little bit of salary, even on top of making a competitive bid for Rhodes. Whether there's anyone available and worth the trouble at that level is up for debate.
482 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think the Chapman signing last year spoiled me
I keep thinking Walt has a joker up his sleeve and 3 months from now we’ll look back at all this penny-pinching and roll our eyes. We’ll all feel better about LF and Fay will once again be left with egg on his face. I hope.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 13, 2010 1:18 PM EST reply actions
If they're planning to pay Rhodes
It’s entirely possible it’s not worth it to spend after that. I think the strategy may be to string Rhodes along and see if a trade presents itself. Deciding whether or not to pay Rhodes could be critical.
A bargain free agent still seems possible, but probably not worth it.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 13, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
They were afraid he'd accept
And they’d have to pay him more than they want/can afford
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 13, 2010 4:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They've had no talks with Rhodes!
by Brian B on Dec 13, 2010 7:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We've not discussed a trade for Jose Reyes!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 13, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
I understand why they didn't do it (or at least why they say they didn't)
I just think their fears were unfounded. I don’t think he was very likely to accept since a multi-year deal is clearly his biggest priority, nor do I think he would’ve been awarded an outrageous salary had he gone through the arbitration process. The worst outcome I can see from an offer of arbitration is us ending up getting Rhodes back for one year and $3-4M, which really isn’t that bad of an outcome at all. I think Walt not offering arb had more to do with doing Rhodes a solid (so he’d be able to maximize his FA value since teams wouldn’t lose a pick) than any legitimate fears of him accepting and making bank through the arbitration process.
Yeah, I agree on the favor to Rhodes part
Mainly because Arthur knows where Walt lives.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 13, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
***doorbell rings at Walt's place***
Kid opens door. Arthur Rhodes is standing there.
“Dad, there’s a bad-ass mother fucker at the door.”
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 13, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
I disagree
Offering him arb would essentially lock us end to a one year ~3-5 million dollar deal.
Because he is a Type A, he would be much less attractive to other teams, because I doubt they would want to give up a draft pick for a 40yrold middle reliever with foot issues.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
The reason why he'd be less attractive to other teams is why I wouldn't be worried about a big arb award.
He made about $2M last year and, as you mention, he is a 40-year-old middle reliever with foot issues who throws about 50 innings a season. The arbitration process isn’t gonna be that kind to him for those same reasons.
Yeah
If we do sign him back, it will be for something like $3-3.5mil, which is pretty much the best he could get through arb. I don’t mind doing him a solid, but damn, 2 high draft picks for a middle reliever is too sweet to pass up.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 13, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much.
I like Arthur Rhodes, he seems like a real cool dude and I wish him the best in any endeavor he chooses to participate in, but I don’t really think that should impact any business decisions.
I bet he could have gotten close to 5 million in arb
Arbitrators can’t look at age or injuries, they just look at performance and he’s an All-Star.
Weathers got 3.85 if I remember correctly.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
But the base salary for his arb hearing is only $2 mil
There aren’t many arbiters who will grant a player, any player, a +100% raise.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 13, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Weathers made $3.3M, and also didn't go to arbitration as he and the Reds came to an agreement.
Which is the most likely outcome if Rhodes had accepted arb, since by all accounts they have a good relationship. I really can’t see any way that Rhodes would’ve gotten more than $3.5M, and even that is probably high.
Weathers made 3.9 mil in 2009, but avoided arb
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2009-01-28-253716838_x.htm
Arbitrators do not look at your previous year’s salary at all. The looks at you stats and compare to other fair market salaries for the same skill. I say 3.5 in arb was a minimum.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
You're correct that he made $3.9 and not $3.3, I was looking at his 2008 salary.
That said, you’re completely incorrect in stating arbitrators don’t look at your previous year’s salary at all. That’s the starting point for any arb hearing, and also the reason why players never have their salary lowered through arb. Weathers got $3.3M in 2008, with a $3.5M base in 2009. The last $400K was the buyout of his next year’s salary that inevitably occurred when he fell off a cliff. That’s pretty much exactly in line with what I’d expect to happen with Rhodes, only instead of a small raise from $3.3M, he’d be getting it from $2M.
Maybe but player comps have more weight than previous year salary
Arbitration is very very player friendly, which is why teams always settle before arbitration. It is absolutely not equilivent market value.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Teams settle because it's a contentious process that can breed bad blood
whereas a compromise leaves both sides slightly unhappy but at least they don’t leave it feeling as if they’re being treated unfairly.
Why is this all Fya seemes to tlak about these days?
He hasnt been a very good very this offseason.
Watch it, ass blood.
by -ManBearPig on Dec 13, 2010 1:22 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
That's sorta all there's been to talk about
Walt has served up every possible variation on “nothing’s happening” and “there’s no money.”
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 13, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Bob is out of work
The produce biz is not what it used to be and he had to outsource his own job.
that’s Phill Castellini (blue hat) during the off season…Reds need more attendance.
.
"Men today are pussies or gay" Aja Warren
Maybe they should start growing those kind of bananas that grow on trees.
by Brian B on Dec 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
after all,
there’s always money in the banana stand.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
and a well deserved rec for you
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Also:
there are always recs in the banana stand.
by the finest muffins on Dec 13, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
but where is the banana king?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
praise Yahweh
and how much did we waste on corey patterson?
I think 2 things about all the budget talk
1) Fay has absolutely no idea what the real budget situation is
2) Neither do we
Until spring training starts, all players who are going to be brought in have been, and we can see who is getting reps in LF and at SS, it’s not worth much guessing on how much there is to spend.
I kinda believe Walt when he says they’d be happy going into ST with the current team. I also am very sure that he is actively looking for improvements. Who knows how much he can actually spend.
Finally, I’m so tired of Fay, I may not read him again until ST. All he talks about is how they have zero money, and seems to take joy in rubbing it in fans’ faces. When Bruce signed his deal there was zero reporting from him, and even when he heard the report he didn’t really bother to confirm it.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
There's little incentive to do a good job when there's no competition
I feel like Fay’s gotten worse since the demise of the Post and the DDN’s retiring of Hal.
It sucks
Fay is certainly no HoF Hal, but that is hardly a fair criticism to level on the man. He’s not a gifted wordsmith, but it always seemed like he was a hard worker who could always be counted on to cover most, if not all, of the team’s news. He’s a like a scrappy little player who is valuable to a team for doing all the unglamorous things well. But as soon as he’s unable to play elite defense and beat out an infield single, he’s basically worthless.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 13, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I never really minded him until about a year ago
The misspellings, etc., are annoying and fun to make fun of, but at the end of the day, if he’s giving me juicy morsels, I don’t care.
But he’s literally got nothing other than bad analysis, baseless speculation, and troll baiting on his blog now.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Well....
I’m willing to cut some slack on reporters who trained as journalists not having very good blogs. I don’t want my beat reporter to be a columnist. I want him to report facts when he has them and work hard to try and get them when he doesn’t. I don’t want the constant updating of a blog make a beat reporter feel like he has to turn into another Paul Daughery. If there’s no news, there’s no news. He should just leave the blog empty – but maybe there’s pressure to fill the space with something. And that “something” is probably going to crap.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
I promise you
there is that pressure. Media corporate types insist on the web being constantly active.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 13, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Fay just has no sources with the Reds
That is why it takes national writers to break Reds news……or ManBearPig
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
by btcoop71 on Dec 13, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
"could always be counted on to cover most, if not all, of the team’s news."
How could he not do that? He’s the only one besides Sheldon who travels with the team. That hardly qualifies him for hard worker status. He used to drive me nuts in the 90s when he only did the game recaps, which read like second grade book reports. All one-sentence paragraphs using one-subject and one-object. It struck me then that he must have been the nephew of an Enquirer exec, because he had obviously zero ability to do anything other than report, “The Reds scored one run in the third. Neagle pitched 5 innings.” I’ve concluded that the only possible reason he still has his job is because he is getting paid pretty close to nothing, or else the Enquirer wouldn’t be paying anyone at all.
There is no reason at all to read his blog or his tweets. The news will come from somewhere else.
by Brian B on Dec 13, 2010 3:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wait. He finally did mention it.
He says it pays $6.5, $7, $6.5 for 11, 12, and 13 respectively. Is that what reported because I don’t remember it being that way
by vottomatic on Dec 13, 2010 4:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're right in saying we don't know what the "real budget situation is"
That’s a state secret. But we can make a pretty good guess about it. We know the range of what they’re able to spend – and knowing that puts a good filter on Hot Stove speculation – which is a lot of what we deal in on this blog during the offseason. Would they actually be able to take on Reyes’ contract? Not unless the Mets throw in at least $3M or the Reds sent Volquez over.
That said, I’m putting this aside after this post. The hot stove has been defined almost completely by what the Reds CAN’T do, so it’s probably time to upgrade to electric.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 13, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Walt is a master of propaganda and disinformation
It would not surprise me if we made no significant moves.
It would not surprise me if we made a significant move today.
It would not surprise me if we made a significant move in March.
We’re going to have another good team this year, and perhaps better than last year. I can sleep easy with the belief that Walt knows what he’s doing.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 13, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Didn’t you see Breakin’ 2? That Bugaloo wasn’t wood-burning.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 13, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah yes, Electric Bugaloo
doesn’t seem like an upgrade to me
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 14, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
if ST started tomorrow, they shouldn't be happy with the current team
I mean I’m fine with Janish @ SS, but LF is that elephant in the room that no one’s talkin’ about….
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 13, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
It's available
"Those fellas make some good points," Baker said. "They're profane as hell, and they're probably gay, but they make some good points."
Dusty Baker on RR
I bet the Reds can land Jose Canseco for a song.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
There was a good comment on there:
“he is like an unfunny version of kenny powers”
BLS commenters are almost as bad as YouTube commenters most of the time.
Watch it, ass blood.
yahoo has terrible commenters
even on big league stew, dirty tackle, and Dr. Saturday
I don’t get why. Is ESPN as bad, also?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
for the most part, yes
it’s all blind homerism and troll-baiting
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
I think there's no concrete answer to what the budget is.
Nor will there be until the first day of the season.
I’m sure there are certain players currently targeted whom, if signed, would blow by the “stated” budget, but would also project to significantly alter the other aspects of the teams revenue.
For instance, if there really is $7 million available, but the Reds were able to swing a trade for Greinke, Reyes, or Hanley, it would make a splash big enough to increase ticket and jersey sales. Whether or not that would cover everything is certainly debatable, but I don’t think it’s just “we have X to spend;” its much more maleable than that.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 13, 2010 2:46 PM EST reply actions
From MLBTR:
Royals GM Dayton Moore is “actively gauging” the trade market for Zack Greinke, reports ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick. Moore “has focused on adding up-the-middle position players who are close to major league ready,” and the Yankees, Rangers, and Brewers are not considered among the best matches.
Valaika and Cozart for Greinke. Get it done Walt.
Watch it, ass blood.
If that would be all it took, I'd bust a nut for joy
But the Royals were asking for Drabek and Snider from the Jays.
Those are (arguably) two of the top 10 prospects in the game.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 13, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry. I thought this was less than half-jest
But reading again I can see the full jest.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Dec 13, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Im thinking Janish for Grienke straight up
then Grienke is our SS right?
"Why not just throw an empty glove down at the shortstop position, it would be cheaper and have better range." - justin007000
Dont call Grienke an empty glove
I like to think of him as a “not quite full glove”
"Why not just throw an empty glove down at the shortstop position, it would be cheaper and have better range." - justin007000
But then he'd have to hit 2nd.
He isn’t much of a bunter, so that wouldn’t work.
What, me? Being negative? No. Never.
by Paul Householder on Dec 13, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
neither was SloCab
Im sure he is a better hitter than SloCab, as long as he can swing hes better.
"Why not just throw an empty glove down at the shortstop position, it would be cheaper and have better range." - justin007000
Here
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=5915164
Talks about the Nats and Jays going after Grienke. Mentions that the Reds have the prospects but haven’t talked with the Royals yet.
"Why not just throw an empty glove down at the shortstop position, it would be cheaper and have better range." - justin007000
Mesoraco, Frazier, Maloney for Grienke
Frazier would be a mean 2B.
I’d make that deal in a second.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Leake or Wood and I'd still be in
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
I probably would too, but they wouldn't
You’d need a better pitcher…..and it looks like Geki beat me to this comment.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
How do you pronounce that, Geki?
Is it a schwa e like “Geh-kee” or is a long e like “Gee-kee”?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 13, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
However the hell you want, I honestly have no idea.
In my head I suppose it’s “Gecky”, but it’s from an account that somebody gave me on another message board many years ago and just kind of stuck, so I’m pretty indifferent on how you wanna say it.
Are you kidding me?
THIS is the one topic on which you don’t have an opinion?
I like your style, dude.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 13, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I prefer to use an Andalucian pronunciation
it sounds like “gHhhhhe-cky”.
But thats just me.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 13, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
you say that now....
then you’ll go on an 18 month tirade of trying to get us to correctly pronounce your name….
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 13, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
18 month tirade?
You vastly overrate my attention span. I lack the ability to focus my hatred for 18 minutes, much less 18 months.
it may well take just 18 seconds, but it may well be 18 months worth.
And I’m sure there’s a /ravenriley’d joke in there somewhere.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 13, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
well, her daddy didn't love her
and some guy filmed them doin the nasty one night, and she took right to it. He asked her if she would be interested in doing it again, with his friend, and she agreed, and the rest is history.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
close.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
by crolfer on Dec 13, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
close only counts in horseshoes and anything that blows the fuck up
it’s pronounced her-ring-guh, fyi
this is 100% off topic and unrelated to anything
but I thought it was hilarious. Apparently Julian Assange had an online dating profile.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
"I like women from countries that have sustained political turmoil,"
I’m your green card honey
so don’t do nothing funny
I’ll bring your poor ass down to Oz
where you know it’s always sunny
and not that sun
thats gonna ruin all our fun
aint no cholera
for this baller-huh
so come round with this misogynist
togetha foreva
we’ll get goverments pissed
I’M OUT
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 13, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you are looking for a last minute gift idea for that special someone...
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Dec 13, 2010 4:00 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
To infinity and beyond, baby
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
by TheC on Dec 13, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I wonder
what “Woody” looks like.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Dec 13, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember, you asked
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
shoulda guessed nerd-nirvana would block hotlinking
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Believe it or not, I didn't even try....I showed discretion
/growinguprightbeforeyoureyes’d
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I heard that thing was defective
You have to shake it forever to get the milk to come out
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 13, 2010 4:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 7 recs
I bet Buzz doesn't leave the house all that often
I wouldn’t.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Dec 13, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My daughter would have no idea what to do with that.
I’m a good dad.
by Brian B on Dec 13, 2010 6:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So you're already grooming her to have daddy issues?
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 13, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Bendy Straw Daddies, next time on Dr. Phil."
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
True, that episode would never play on Maury
unless the Bendy Straw Daddies ended up knocking up their little girls
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 14, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
That's fine.
As long as I don’t have daughter issues!
by Brian B on Dec 16, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well played, sir
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
This morning when I got to work,
there were some extra worksheets from our Saturday tutoring program on my desk. The point of the exercise was “what’s wrong with this sentence,” where each selection had a grammar or spelling error the kids were supposed to identify and fix. It included this unfortunate one:
She took four testes before Christmas vacation.Not a typo. Someone intentionally chose that misspelling. Lord.
by the finest muffins on Dec 13, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
hahaha
what do you do exactly?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Recruit volunteers and students for an educational nonprofit
including said tutoring programs.
by the finest muffins on Dec 13, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
how did you get this job?
i ask, mostly because i am looking for a new direction in May or after I come home from Korea, if i don’t find a job by May.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Three years coordinating volunteers, two years running educational programs,
and a healthy dollop of brilliance and charm.
“Idealist.org” would also have been an acceptable answer to your question, I suppose.
by the finest muffins on Dec 13, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
how have we not mentioned justin checking kids' spelling yet?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Joel Sherman
thinks Cliff Lee may be thinking about signing with the Phillies or Cubs.
Of course, Joel Sherman is usually full of it, but the Phillies would fit in with the rumor that the “mystery team” isn’t offering as much money, but is a place he loves. I don’t see how the Cubs qualify on that account. He’s never played in Chicago…has he?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I believe the PediPhillies have been confirmed to NOT be in on Cliff Lee.
But the Cubs might make sense.
by Brian B on Dec 13, 2010 7:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If the Phillies somehow get him
They’ll win 110 games this year
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
yeah
I don’t see how you beat a team whose #4 starter is Cole Hamels.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
with baseball bats.
applied to shins, knees, and heads.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
Hey, if you can't beat 'em,
beat ’em up!
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
by ZJiff30 on Dec 13, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
aka "The Gillooly"
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
How could anyone love the Cubs?
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 13, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
From behind?
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody know what this is about?
The Reds will host a press conference tomorrow (Tuesday, December 14) at 1:30 p.m. ET in the field level interview room at Great American Ball Park.
Details of the press conference will be announced tomorrow morning.
Rob Butcher
Director of Media Relations
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
they signed Cliff Lee?
Actually, it’s probably to announce the Jay Bruce deal. It was supposed to formally announced on Tuesday.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Definitely Bruce signing
Owners needed for NL-only fantasy baseball league....inquire within.
by cesarhernandez on Dec 13, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Ah.
Thought they’d already done all of that.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 13, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Doh!
I just hit got done typing and hit post and looked up and saw yours…
Owners needed for NL-only fantasy baseball league....inquire within.
by cesarhernandez on Dec 13, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
ocab
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Reds have announced a press conference for tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.
Won’t announce details until tomorrow morning. I think we all know the subject of the press conference already….
Owners needed for NL-only fantasy baseball league....inquire within.
We're signing Aroldis Chapman again!
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 13, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
That seems like a waste of resources, but whatevs.
In Walt We Trust, right?
by the finest muffins on Dec 13, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I hope it's for a little less this time.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'm bored, the beer's good, and there's bound to be a good answer for this...
but what exactly do the O’s have/think of Markakis?
He’s 27, he’s logged 5 years in the majors, and made $7+ million last year. He’s been a tad up and down offensively thusfar, but is a pretty sure bet to OPS .800 with solid OBP. He bats lefty, but even in their park, he’s not yet been even an Ethier-like HR hitter.
Other than his 6 WAR 2008, he’s averaged just under 3 WAR per season since he’s been a MLB regular. He’s signed for 4 years/$52 million through 2014, and though initially the contract seemed reasonable, it now seems he may be significantly overpaid.
As much as we’ve talked about targeting Ellsbury as a potential LF/leadoff type (and the contract it would take to keep him through his arb years), is Markakis a reasonable target? What are his projections like going forward? Given the O’s are paying him like he’s a 4.5-5 WAR/year player and he’s yet to reach those levels, would they be willing to shop him for salary relief and a haul of young prospects?
I ask because I seemingly overlooked him while identifying potential LF targets. Given that we’ve discussed Upton, it doesn’t seem too farfetched to consider it at least.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 13, 2010 9:34 PM EST reply actions
I'd love Markakis
but I imagine the asking’ll be pretty steep. They don’t have a lot going on over there.
But if its Alonso + Francisco? Yeah, I’d do it.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
makes sense
seems like The Deal has a better arm, and is more athletic
but that would be another LHB in the lineup! oh noes!!!!
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 15, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Trade for Greinke and Queintin
that’s all
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2010 10:21 PM EST reply actions
So if the Reds miss out on Rhodes...
over $500K or so will you then admit the Cairo contract was really dumb?
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
if the reds do sign him will you leave
by vottomatic on Dec 13, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why do I have to leave...
I follow the Reds, I like talking about them, I’m not trolling. Just because you’re a fan doesn’t mean you can’t question some of Jock’s moves.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
if you made some other points and talked about other things i wouldn't mind
but you come on here and discuss one thing and one thing only and it is a tad annoying
by vottomatic on Dec 13, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
+1
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I always address the main post...
or I don’t bother commenting. I know you guys don’t like to hear about the unfolding stupidity of Jocketty but it’s playing out on a semi-daily basis.
Now the Phillies are talking about moving Blanton and his two year/$17 million contract and it seems to be a given that they’ll have to eat salary. Joe Blanton is the same or better than Arroyo AND younger and just a few days after Jocketty inks the big extension the market is telling us Blanton is overpaid – maybe by a lot. This is not good GMing.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
well you only comment on main posts about signings or money
and your comments are all the same…“Jocketty sucks…blah blah blah…Jocketty sucks” so i stand by my previous statement
How about Ramon Hernandez? Bruce? Rhodes? Masset?
Drafting Leake? Getting Gomes for a song?
Wanna talk about any of that? Didn’t think so.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 13, 2010 11:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Blanton does not equal Arroyo
Blanton has not consistently thrown 200+ innings like Arroyo.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
He's thrown like 790 something innings...
over the past four years – I think the only injury he’s had is an oblique strain. You look at their peripherals, their recent past, and their 2011 projections – they are remarkably similar.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
they are remarkably similar
save for one tiny detail: results.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Seriously. I'm not sure how anyone could argue they've been similar
Esp. the last 3 years, which are much more predictive.
Blanton: 569 IP, ERA+ of 92
Arroyo: 636 IP, ERA+ of 101
More innings and more effective.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
BUT THEIR 2011 PROJECTIONS ARE REMARKABLY SIMILAR!!!
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Blanton's babip was 332, Arroyo's a league low 246..
That’s not explained by the Reds’ defense – their team babip against was about 295. It’s not explained by Arroyo’s pitching – his career babip is 290. It’s just luck. Blanton is as likely to get lucky as Arroyo.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
OK, I'll play
Arroyo’s LD% was a career low at 16.3%. Blanton? Right around his career norm at 19.4%.
Those fewer LDs from Arroyo resulted in a ton more GB and FB than he usually gives up. You maybe could argue that he was a tiny bit lucky on HR/FB, but not really. His % was just very slightly below the league average, and still higher than his personal career average.
Still, that’s just one year. Over the last 3 years Arroyo has gotten an increasing number of groundballs while his Ks and LDs have gone down. With the high quality of the Reds infield, I’d say that’s a good strategy and not at all attributable simply to “luck”.
And of course, you are completely ignoring the extra 22 IP per year on average that Arroyo is giving his team. That’s an extra 4ish starts a year. There’s plenty of value in that too.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Even if Arroyo is doing something...
to prevent balls in play from being hits, there’s no way he’s doing it so as to keep his babip at 246. No pitcher has ever been able to approach anything like that over the long term.
As for his extra innings, I’m not sure how valuable extra innings from Bronson Arroyo really are. Roy Halladay pitching 250 innings instead of 200 is hugely valuable. But Arroyo is essentially mediocre and the Reds have bullpen quantity and quality in spades. If I’m a Reds fan I don’t want to see Arroyo pitching to Holliday, Rasmus, and Pujols for the third or fourth time in the seventh inning. I want to see Chapman, Rhodes, Masset, Bray, Wood, etc…
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
You are arguing that Bronson's BABIP will not be 246 in 2011.
But the Reds didn’t sign him based on his 2010 stats, they signed him based upon his career record and recent performance. Some troll coming in here arguing that Arroyo’s success is an illusion because he won’t maintain last year’s BABIP is like some troll going to VEB around January 10th, 2010 and calling you all fools for signing Holliday when he couldn’t possibly maintain his NL OPS of 1.023 because his BABIP was an unsustainable .341 in 2009 (which by the way, he did NOT maintain).
Comment intelligently on SOME topic or get lost, you silly, bitter, second-place troll.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well, first of all
those extra innings aren’t necessarily extra innings in a single game, but also extra starts.
He’s never missed a start since he’s been a Red. And there is no arguing that getting the start from Bronson is better than getting a start from the AAA dreck you’d have to call up to replace him. Being a Cardinals fan, you should understand this.
Also, you keep referencing his 2010 as if that’s the only year he’s ever pitched. He’s been a reasonably effective, extremely durable pitcher for 5 straight seasons. There is no debating that there is significant value in that.
Of course no one here thinks his BABIP will be that low in 2011, but as long as he keeps the ball on the ground, he’ll still be an effective, useful pitcher.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
plus on a few occasions last year
Bronson made the Cardinals his school yard bitch.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
not so sure we should be going this route in the argument
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
He wasn't discussing on-field activities.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
your opinion about the "unfolding stupidity of Jocketty playing out on a semi-daily basis
only seems to be agreed with in one place. and its not here. while you only are able to see the $1 million to Cairo (THAT IS SOOO MUCH MONEY) and the how ever much it is to arroyo (which really isn’t that much when you really look at it) the regulars here are able to see the finer details and the other things that made the Reds NL CENTRAL DIVISION CHAMPIONS IN 2010 (which is really why you are over here and bitching about Jocketty. You are jealous and secretly wish you could have him back). so leave and stop annoying the shit out of everyone here. or have an intelligent conversation about something else. your choice.
There's gotta be someone here who doesn't...
automatically equate NL Central Champs with Jocketty = Genius. Many idiot GMs have a division title or two. And he has done some good things – Hernandez, the Bruce extension, getting something useful for Griffey. But the last week really shows how reckless he can be.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
i would agree
id he hadn’t made several moves that led to it.
Leake, Chapman, Masset, Rolen, and others > extension for arroyo and Cairo signing
You argue these are awful but you have no evidence other than projections.
We prefer to use the results his moves created as evidence rather than the projections you think his moves will have
so while division title may not automatically equal jocketty as a genius
it certainly provides more evidence and holds more weight in an argument than made up numbers
I think you're straw-manning
No one is claiming that Jocketty is the Second Coming. We were plenty critical here of the Taveras deal, et al. But Jocketty’s track record, from his days in Oakland forward, is a respectable one. Even in the case of Taveras, he was willing to cut bait (albeit too late) and get back a little bit of money on contract everyone assumed was completely sunk.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 13, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
AND
your Cards got Aaron Miles back! You’re fuckin welcome, mister.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Pisswater?
Why’d you have to bring HIM up?
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 14, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
cuz the Cards had to play him
and they were talking about Walt unloading Taveras. We got Aaron Miles in that deal and then dropped him, the Cards picked him up, and he sucked for them.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Uh, no
1. Blanton’s pitched more than 200 innings twice in his 6 year career; Arroyo’s been over 200 each of the last 6 years.
2. By bWAR, 2 of Blanton’s past 3 years have been 0.7 and -0.7; the worst year of Arroyo’s career was 1.7. Arroyo has averaged 3.3 WAR as a Red; Blanton has 1 season at 3.3 and 1 season better (4.1).
3. Ignore the accounting all you want, but Arroyo is still averaging less than $10M/yr over the next 3 years in current dollars.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
I love this place, dont let it turn toxic
The thing I love about Red Reporter since I was introduced it by a friend a couple of years ago was the smart commentary. It really seemed liked a good community to read about and discuss the Reds.
From Red Reporter I jumped to other SBNation blogs like the Indianapolis Colts’ Stampede Blue. Stampede Blue was great as well until the end of the regular season.
At that point the head writers have been on a witch hunt against the GM, Bill Polian. It has made the site completely unreadable at times and has been disappointing to me.
I’m glad to see educated, objective regulars be able to be critical of Walt’s mistakes, but also quickly accept his successes.
Don’t let some like guayzimi, on a Walt Witch Hunt ruin he site.
6-2, 185
RR: I'm addicted to you, but you know that you're toxic
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
NEEEE NOO doo doo dooooo
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Dec 14, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yet another reason to not let Cardinal fans use your pool
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 14, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You were nowhere to be found when Bruce signed his deal
Or would you prefer Walt had waited until Bruce was 30 and signed him to a deal for twice the money? That’s what teams with shitty farm systems do.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 13, 2010 11:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Bruce signing was fine...
it didn’t really stand out one way or the other. It would be especially good if his 2011 salary is kept low, but they haven’t released that information.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
And yet Arroyo gets paid 6.5 mil in 2011
Which he has easily been worth the last few years.
I’m done arguing with you, but you have no leg to stand on if you are trying to contend that you simply “like talking about the Reds”
You’re on a witch hunt when you should really be worried about your team’s gawd-awful defense in 2011
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Dec 13, 2010 11:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and they don't have much hitting beyond Pujols, Holliday, and McCheese
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Gerald Laird!
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 14, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW, I think you're alright.
I agree with you on like, nothing, and I think you’re being a little confrontational. But you aren’t trolling like some of our other visitors, and you’re being treated ridiculously. I’m not sure why so many here get so territorial.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
by andromache on Dec 14, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My problem is, like others have said,
That he won’t seem satisfied until we agree with him that Jocketty is awful. And that’s the only thing he wants to talk about. No interest.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 14, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Which is fine, but that would just require ignoring.
Mostly, I don’t care who’s right, but I’d like to see us be a little less dick-head-y than some other blogs-who-shall-not -be-named about visitors, even if they’re a little obnoxious.
(Don’t take that the wrong way, guayzimi, our standard discourse level on this blog is “pretty obnoxious”)
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
I get where you are coming from, but I think you are giving our esteemed guest a little too much credit
He literally only comes on here to mock Walt for deals he perceives as being stupid.
Since my handle clearly marks me as a Reds fan, if I went on any other blog simply to make fun of them and the moves they made, and was never, ever present at any other time, I’d expect to get treated fairly harshly.
If anything, we are indulging his views by arguing with them rationally and with facts. He responds with
I know you guys don’t like to hear about the unfolding stupidity of Jocketty but it’s playing out on a semi-daily basis.
He’s welcome to stay and be a nuisance, and clearly he has a better handle on player value and performance than the run-of-the-mill troll, but the intent is no different than a guy coming on here and saying “Jocko suckz Reds blow Cardz rule 4eva!!!”
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
yup
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
disagreed
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
dito
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 15, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
/Ancient Roman Raven Riley'd
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Dec 15, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Cairo contract wasnt dumb
If the Reds didnt resign Cairo then who would hang out with this dude at Spring Training?
6-2, 185
who will upgrade your account?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it wont be me. i have hit my budget ceiling
unless i can get my wife to defer some of her 2011 salary for me to be able to link a stupid picture of cairo hanging out with a fat dude
6-2, 185
maybe the two are unrelated
the reds might have a limit for a 40 year relief pitcher coming off a career year with a bad foot.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
There's been mutual interest between the Reds and Rhodes
since the beginning of the offseason.To conclude that the Cairo signing, at $1M, has an effect on the Rhodes deal, you’d have to believe the Reds were both completely broke or they haven’t had a fixed price in mind for Rhodes and have decided to starting spending the money elsewhere.
$1M isn’t nothing, but Cairo’s replacement would have made almost half that anyway- as you acknowledge with the $500K. That money could have been made up by not tendering Jared Burton too. It would be very weird to think Jocketty didn’t have a gameplan for Rhodes from a payroll standpoint. It’s far more likely that they’ve got Rhodes on a slowburn to see if something else develops and they need to take on salary in a trade.
Depending on how they age next season (Cairo is 36, Rhodes is 41), it’s a pretty close race as to the ROI for that $500K, between Rhodes and Cairo. But it’s a much greater leap to take Rhodes’ $3-$4M and try to bring in an additional 2-3 WAR.
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 13, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think anybody's reacting
like the Cairo contract is the Chapman contract.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
So the Reds signed Cliff Lee
and traded for Grienke, reactions???
"Why not just throw an empty glove down at the shortstop position, it would be cheaper and have better range." - justin007000
never mind he went to the Phillies
this could be even worse. This is perhaps the greatest rotation in the history of baseball
Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and 1994 Avery would like a word with you.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
none of those guys were ever a threat to throw a no-hitter at any time, if memory serves correct
of course, i turned 10 in october 1994, so everything is a little cloudy.
your point?
Kent Mercker threw a no hitter and Maddux, Glavine, Smolz, and Avery never did.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
meh, i was 9
i just don’t remember any of those guys having the dominance of hallady. especially into this past decade.
now i mostly remember smoltz for getting pissed and yelling into the Reds dugout last year after drew stubbs stole second after beating out an infield single that was immediately after someone (probably johnny gomes) hit a grand slam. and i remember dusty yelling back at him, “it’s the 3rd fucking inning.” at that moment in time, i gained some respect for dusty.
in my opinion, smoltz and glavine should have been let out to pasture a year or two before they were lead to slaughter.
Youth is no excuse for ignorance of baseball history.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Maddux and Smoltz both had the dominance of Halladay
and maybe then some, at least for Maddux. Glavine compares very favorably to Hamels, and Avery/Millwood/Neagle (pick a year) compares decently to present-day Oswalt.
You don’t even need sabr knowledge to know this, really.
there were plenty of days where Maddux owned the other team
he was truly a great pitcher.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Youth is no excuse for ignorance of baseball history.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
no
Kent Mercker was the Braves best starting pitcher in the 1990s. It is plainly obvious.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
whaa?
by the end of the year we will have:
Chapman, Bailey, Volquez, Cueto, and Arroyo.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
I have to say
I have to respect a guy who accepts millions of dollars less to play for a team he likes.
OTOH, I really don’t get this. The Phillies traded him, because they didn’t want to sign him to a big contract. Then they sign him to a big contract. Not only does it seem like a strange thing for the team to do, you have to wonder why Cliff Lee likes the Phillies so much when they did that to him.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Uh, no.
Everyone is reporting how much less money he took, and it’s wrong.
Lee’s getting $120M/5 from the Phillies, or $24M/yr; with the option, it’s $147M/6. The best Yankee’s offer was $150M/7, or just over $21M/yr.
It’s fewer guaranteed years, but he’s getting much more per year.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
Right, but most guys in their 30s are chasing the total $$, not AAV
Lee is apparently the exception. Though Philly being 100 miles closer to Arkansas probably played into it.
This is a spiffy graph – style meets sabermetrics!
But Philly is way further from AK than the Rangers are.
I read he wanted to rejoin them so bad he initiated the talks.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Isn't Lee married to Sarah Palin?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
no no
they both just like to shoot moose and chop them up with their bare hands. Oh wait, no, that last part is just Sarah Palin, my bad.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
the #spalaska tag on twitter is an absurd amount of fun,
politics aside
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
took me a second to realize what that stood for
I thought it was an onomotopoeia (how the F do you spell that?) at first.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Off by one letter. Third O should be an A.
Well done. That’s one of my favorite spellings in the English language.
by the finest muffins on Dec 14, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
What does degree, rather than distance, have to do with this?
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I’d think the opposite. If he has to retire, he’s out significant money; if he still has gas in the tank, he’ll make a heck of a lot more than $3M in that 7th year.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
If he has to retire...
before the contract is up, he’s out the money.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
But why would he retire?
If he stinks he’ll make the team cut (and pay) him. I can’t imagine him voluntarily retiring before the deal runs out. I’m sure there are a few examples of this happening (McGwire?) but it’s pretty rare.
exactly
The Rangers offer was worth as much as $161 million.
And he apparently didn’t ask the Rangers or the Yanks to improve their offers. The Yankees say they offered him a variety of deals. One of them offered more per year but less years, like the Phillies offered. He said he wanted 7 years. Guess not.
I’d take it personal, except he left cash on the table with the Rangers, too. He just really likes Philly for some reason.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I heard that Yankee fans threw bottles at and spit upon Mrs. Cliff Lee...
…and that this might have made some impact on the decision-making process.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
some chicks dig that
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Dec 14, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Dunno about the bottle, but I've definitely pulled The Ghost
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
by jch24 on Dec 14, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Me Rikey!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Dec 14, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
That's racist!
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 15, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
The Ghost?
I thought it was the Spitting Cobra?
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 15, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
I heard that, too
But I don’t buy it.
If it was just that he hated NY, why not go with Texas?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Philly is closer.
He can set up a missile base there to destroy New York.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I don't get the whole "hundred miles closer to home" bit
These guys aren’t driving home for a long weekend. What’s another hour on a plane?
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
What's another hour on a plane when it's a 747 and you fucking OWN it?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 14, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Cliff Lee's just concerned about his carbon footprint?
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
eh, he didn't like being traded to Seattle...
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 14, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
this seems more like a Daedalus comment
all of a sudden I want to talk about cell phones and killing Africans
where’s obc when I need him?
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 15, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
especially when you can afford a private jet
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Eh, I guess my sarcasm wasn't obvious
Arkansas is what, a thousand miles away from the northeast? The 100 mile headstart that Philly has is negligible. I was more referring to the supposed advantage Texas had (over NYY) because of its proximity to Arkansas.
I wasn't going after you at all, sorry if it came off that way
We hear it all the time though, like with Rolen and being close to Evansville……I don’t get it.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Cincinnati's probably a pretty serious improvement over Toronto, though.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
My family is from this area and I'd rather live in Toronto
If it weren’t for my kids there’s no way I’d live here.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I meant time-of-travel wise.
In general, Toronto is awesome. (Please don’t hurt me, Joey Votto)
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
Ah, I gotcha
I think I’d still rather live in Toronto and fly home to AR than live in Cincinnati and fly home to AR. :)
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
But you'd have to pay income tax in two countries, and that adds up quick.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
That's why you buy a house in Florida and establish "residence"
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Residence is irrelvant, you still have to pay twice as a MLB ballplayer.
Three times if you’re divorced.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
How does that work?
Not being an ass, I’ve just never thought about it.
When I lived in KY and worked in Cincinnati, I paid KY state income taxes and Cincinnati city taxes, but not Ohio state taxes.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
It's different across national borders
When we lived in the UK we had to pay UK taxes, but not US taxes. But that was only because we didn’t make enough to owe the US. Had we earned enough (which Joey undoubtedly will) we would have had to pay the US some too, even though the entire salary came from a UK source.
I’m not sure what the rules are between the US and Canada, but it’s probably similar.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
That's a buncha bullshit if you ask me
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
why?
if you are an American citizen, even if you live abroad, you are still eligible for social security, medicare/medicade, and you still have all the rights and privileges of an America citizen.
Why shouldn’t you pay taxes?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Would I be eligible for all UK goverment programs as well?
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
When I lived in England
They gave me an NHS card. I srsly wish I would have used it.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
That would be pretty awesome, methinks
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Unconstitutional!
(Jeez, I move out of Virginia and everything goes straight in the shitter.)
by Brendanukkah on Dec 14, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Also
How is it they can force KY residents to pay Cincinnati city taxes without offering them an opportunity to vote in Cincinnati City Council elections?
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
taxation without representation!
let’s start a revolution!
Yes! Let's take to stree -- Oh look, American Idol is on!
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
by jch24 on Dec 14, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Methinks the difference for MLB players is that they play an equal amount of games in both countries in the same season.
So they work and live as much in Toronto as they do in the USA.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
His son
Is in remission from leukemia, and Philly has a pretty good peds center. Wonder if that had anything to do with it?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Ah
I’ve always thought that the name CHOP (Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia) would scare the crap out of a sick kid. “Come on Jimmy, it’s time for CHOP! Get in the car!”
No way someone named Lee is scared of a CHOP though
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
That's racist!
Cliff Lee is clearly Korean!
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
by andromache on Dec 14, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
CHOP is a really good hospital
On par with CCHMC
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
Aaaaaahhhh, makes sense
Good luck to you, little Lee.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
God, I didn't know that at all.
Wiki says that the kid was diagnosed with leukemia at 4 months. What the hell, world?
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
Not sure what/if that had anything to do with the signing
but figure it’s a possibility.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I think
the culture might be more important than the distance.
But he clearly doesn’t have anything against northeastern cities.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
i think it is more for the family?
if he has a wife, kids, and parents in Texas, it may be easier for them to see him.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
maybe he wanted less years
maybe he has some sort of pride, and doesn’t want to continue to pitch even if he loses it.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Early 1970s Orioles?
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Well, I'm thankful that we don't play in the NL East right now.
Or that the Phillies don’t play in the Central
The Pirates are our buffer!
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Jesus, Mary, and Joesph
Greatest 1-4 SP in history? Can’t think of any better off the top of my head
"Those fellas make some good points," Baker said. "They're profane as hell, and they're probably gay, but they make some good points."
Dusty Baker on RR
am I the only one who remembers Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Avery?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
haha i was only 2 in 1994 so i certainly don't remember
but i just looked up the regular season stats and while quite impressive i don’t think by any means its impossible that the Phillies four will be better
i was only 6 in 1994
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Holy ****
Maddux’s 1994 season was ridiculous.
WHIP- under .9
Walks- 31 in 202 innings
ERA- 1.56
That’s just wow. I don’t know what to say. I mean i knew he was good but damn
1995 was the first season i was old enough to pay attention to
Maddux is one of my favorite players.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
my first MLB memory
is the Reds losing to Leiter in the one game playoff in 1999. I never really got to see Maddux in his prime, but what i do remember was still pretty damn impressive
that game was so terrible
i was in 7th grade. I had a cold or some sort of throat virus, and i could barely talk, i remember eating chicken noddle soup and watching the reds be dominated.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
I was 7 and i remember my dad swearing the whole game
and at the end of the game turning off the tv and saying “welp, so much for that.”
I saw Maddux beat the Reds as a Cub in 2006
i wanted to see him one more time. I know i saw him in the 90s, but I don’t have a lucid memory of seeing him in person.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Those days, the courtesy strike zone was much more common. Watching guys get that pitch 3 inches outside routinely makes me watch something else.
truth
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
This is quite true
but still…Edinson volquez wouldn’t know what to do with it even if the ump gave him an extra 3 inches
TWSS
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
you know that creepy laugh in the brain damage track of Dark Side of the Moon at the end right before ecplispe
well that just came up when i read TWSS and it made me laugh.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 15, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
No, you're not
And they were better. Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and Avery all pitched in their prime. I think Oswalt is on a downward curve and you’re going to start to see that Lee isn’t invincible.
I agree
Lee showed a little bit of weakness with the rangers at the end of the year, Oswalt is certainly not what he was a few years ago, and Hamels has shown ace potential but also has shown some inconsistency. So after thinking about it you and justin are probably right.
also the 1998 Atlanta rotation of
Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, and Millwood was pretty dominant.
I generally don’t like wins for a pitching stat, but those 5 combined for 88 wins. When you top 5 gives you 88 wins, it means they are going deep into games and pitching well. They also gave the Braves 1032.2 innings.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
what is even more impresive is they gave the Braves 1032.2 innings
despite Smoltz missing the first month of the season recovering from off season elbow surgery, and he only threw 167 innings that year.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
I know
they had 7 healthy years with Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz at the top of their rotation, all they needed was serviceable 4th and 5th starters.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
This is the problem with short postseason series.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
to put that into perspective
Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, Wood, and Volquez combined to pitch 786.2 innings.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
they pitched about 70 percent of all the teams innings
and averaged more than 6 innings a start as an entire rotation. I feel bad for the relievers
in 1998 it was probalby for the best
that bullpen was a bit of a gas can. Kerry Lightenberg was their closer. That team also employed the corpse of Norm Charleton.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
The 97 team had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Neagle 1-4
and 3 of those pitchers had ERAs under 3.
They didn’t really have a 5th starter, a number of guys made 26 additional starts, but when your 1-4 is that good, your 5th starter doesn’t really matter.
I also like the Cubs 2003 rotation of Prior, Wood, Zombrano, and Clement. Seas Estes sucked, but that didn’t really matter. If Prior and Wood could have stayed healthy there would be living witnesses who remember the Cubs winning a World Series. Remember in 2004 when the Cubs signed Greg Maddux to be the FIFTH starter behind Prior, Wood, Zombrano and Clement?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
what happened to Prior is a shame though
i remember watching him in 2003 and thinking, if anyone can get 300 wins it is this guy. I loved to watch him work, he made it look so goddamn easy. He worked between 92 and 94, but could run it up to 98 if he was in trouble, and he had a devastating slider, and great command. I really thought he could have lost 5 MPH on his fastball and still be a quality pitcher, he wasn’t simply blowing batters away, he was pitching, just with really great stuff.
Priors combination of command and stuff was probably the best I’ve ever seen. I really thought in 2003 he would be the best pitcher of his generation. It sucks that he is now just a short baseball memory. As much as I hate the Cubs, he almost makes me feel sorry for them.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
Very true
Him and Wood made for an unbelievable one two punch that would have made the Cubs contenders for years to come had they not been injured. and i don’t think you can really blame Dusty for “ruining” them. I mean yes both were young, but how can you resist pitching them. They gave their team the best opportunity to win. How could you not pitch them? The job as a manager is to field the best team possible, and thats what he did. I think almost every manager would have done similar to do Dusty
I don't really blame Dusty
Yeah, if you look through the logs both Wood and Prior through excessive amounts of pitches in some late season games where the Cubs had large leads. But Wood and Prior’s workload was not that out of line for 2003.
Plus the Cubs bullpen sucked.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
and his own terrible luck
i mean your arm doesn’t blow up like his does otherwise.
I don’t really know how well “protecting” the young arms works. It may delay injury, but I don’t know how much it prevents them.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
Some argue that pitchers don't throw enough these days, and this tendency leads to more arm injuries, not fewer.
Of note: The Braves during their dynastic 90’s run had their starters on an every-day throwing program to build arm strength.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
When Greg Maddux was 22
he threw 167 pitches in a start, he threw 10.2 innings that game. The previous start he threw a 10 innings shut out and 134 pitches.
I know SSS but if a 22 year old prospect threw 134 pitches, much less 167 in a start today fans and media would cry out.
Maddux never had an arm problem did he?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Common
For every Greg Maddux, there are 10 Chris Grulers.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
maybe Gruler didn't threw enough in middle school and high school
if arm injuries continue to happen in 15 when pitchers who had little league pitch counts are playing professionally, we will see.
I don’t know what causes arm injuries, but it seems that the extra protection isn’t preventing them.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Maddox has the whole
“not an athlete” tag, but dude was an athlete. Some people can throw lots of innings, some can’t. It’s just the way bodies are built.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
There's a reason the guy won GG after GG too.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
He also has the best page in the universe
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I really like Wood, too
he was a great quote and a really straightforward guy.
I never liked the Cubs, but I always liked Wood.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
I agree with you justin
I was glad you brought up the 2004 Cubs rotation. Entering the season, it looked like a historically good one.
You are right on about Prior too – an amazing blend of power, stuff, and polish. Clemens is the only guy I would really compare him to off the top of my head, and he might have had some chemical help.
due process and all...
seriously, if you can’t see the sarcasm in that wording, the internet is a tough place!
Yeah, you're right
Although Avery is definitely the weak link out of the group
"Those fellas make some good points," Baker said. "They're profane as hell, and they're probably gay, but they make some good points."
Dusty Baker on RR
check out 1993
Avery had a sub 3 ERA.
Between 1991 and 1993 Avery pitched like a number 1 or 2 pitcher. He threw a ton of innings, i think it caught up to him.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
and Oswalt is going to age...how, exactly?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
In 2004
The Diamondbacks went into the season with Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Brandon Webb, and Miguel Batista. That top-3 is better than the Phillies’, and who cares about 4-5 when you have The Big Unit and roided-out Schilling?? That’s the best 1-2 in history, bar none.
I disagree re: the best 1-2 in history.
First of all, Curt Schilling was traded away from the Diamondbacks on November 28, 2003 to the Boston Red Sox for Michael Goss (minors), Casey Fossum, Brandon Lyon and Jorge de la Rosa.
Let’s assume you meant another year, such as 2002, when they each won 20+ games.
Johnson 2.32 ERA, ERA+ 197, 1.031 WHIP
Schilling 3.23 ERA, ERA+ 142, 0.968 WHIP
You could certainly argue that the 1996 Marlins 1-2 was just as good:
Kevin Brown 1.89 ERA, ERA+ 217, 0.944 WHIP
Al Leiter 2.93 ERA, ERA+ 140, 1.263 WHIP
Also, the 2005 Astros featured a trio of Roy Oswalt, Andy Pettitte, and a roided up Roger Clemens.
Roger Clemens 1.87 ERA, ERA+ 226, 1.008 WHIP
Andy Pettitte 2.39 ERA, ERA+ 177, 1.030 WHIP
Roy Oswalt 2.94 ERA, ERA+ 144, 1.204 WHIP
Clemens and Pettitte can certainly make a case for themselves.
The numbers seem to say that there are multiple comps within the last 15 years, let alone all of history.
As for the best 1-5 rotation of all-time, it’s hard to beat the 1907 Cubs. They each had an ERA of under 1.70, an ERA+ of at least 148, and a WHIP below 1.100.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
wow, I forgot about those Astros teams
with those pitchers and a young Berkman, its amazing they never won the WS
(somewhere, Lidge cries, rocking back and forth slowly)
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
and Beltran playing like the second coming of Willie Mays.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 15, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Arguing that Al Leiter was as good as Schilling is crazy talk
Pettitte and Oswalt aren’t gonna match up either. And Kevin Brown was a great pitcher, but RJ is one of the top-10 ever, IMO.
This is a time when Johnson had a disappointing season if he didn’t strike out well over 300 batters a season. Schilling had also established the ability to go 260 IP with 300+ Ks and ~1 WHIP as well. These guys could have been PROJECTED for these stats – other guys had career years together, sure, but they weren’t as good as Johnson and Schilling.
Just remember this Reds fans, don't spit on any opposing player's wife that you want on your team.
This rule does not apply to:
Yadier Molina
Chris Carpenter
Corey Patterson
Skip Schumaker
Aaron Miles
Scott Posednik
I think the "that you want on your team" pretty much covers all of those bases
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
With the Phillies signing Cliff Lee
lets just save ourselves the money, eh?
twitter - MattAnderson19
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Dec 14, 2010 1:02 AM EST reply actions
what does this mean?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
I think he may mean that we shouldn't try to acquire anyone else?
because it won’t matter because the Phillies are gonna win it no matter what?
But yea I’m with you and am a little unsure
They're really bad, and the new logo (still saying big 10 in spite of 12 teams) also sucks
“great lakes” is a no brainer for one division. take your pick at “great plains” “midwest” or anything else like that for the other.
by TheCinWin on Dec 14, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
should have made it Dungeons and Dragons
or Jacob and Edward
by Heeringa on Dec 14, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
its awful
and the hyphened trophies are worse. The logo is terrible. Just….blech
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Can we amend that to St. Louis fans please?
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
by jch24 on Dec 14, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was kinda pulling for Louisville in the men's NCAA soccer championships
They ended up losing 1-0 to Akron, but had an excellent chance to equalize near the end of the game. Also, Akron’s coach is a smart, smart man. He’s spurned DC United’s advances to be their coach two years in a row.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 14, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I actually watched a little of that game
That’s right, I watched soccer.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
My lil sister wants to go to Arkon
Ima get me a Zippy the Kangaroo plush!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Arkon?
areuserious?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
my brother went there for many years
and has nothing to show for it
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 15, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I played in high school with Austin Berry of UL
big dumb jock, but very good at soccer
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
Lee to Phillies is much worse than Lee to Yankees.
In fact, this is just about the worst thing that could have happened. The Phillies are going to be the Yankees for the next 5 years.
calm down
Lee, Oswalt, and Halladay are also all north of 30 and high mileage pitchers. In 1985 the Cubs had what was considered the top rotation in baseball, with Eckersley, Rick Sutcliffe, Steve Trout, and Scott Sanderson, all were injured by June.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
I guess it's an inertia thing...
Sure, there is an injury risk, but if they’re all healthy when the post season happens, the Reds will again lack the pitching to compete.
Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Neagle, and Millwood would like a word about post season baseball with you.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
meh, reds still have a pretty solid offense
even tho votto was mvp, he is capable of an even better season
bruce should be better and hopefully stubbs is much better.
our rotation should be improved across the board as well, and theres plenty of options if 1 or 2 starters suck. Phillies will be tough for sure, but you never know with injuries, and in a 5 game or 7 game series you only need to win 1 more game than your opponent, so it could come down to some luck in a playoff series.
Also
I’m not saying Lee isn’t good, but does no one else remember that he went 12-9 last year? And that he was demoted in 2007?
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
The dude allowed 18 walks in 212 innings.
Yeah, I pretty much forgot about the W-L record.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
by andromache on Dec 14, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Totally different pitcher from 2007
As Poz explains. Whether he can keep it up for another 5 years is definitely an issue, though.
I don't think that Lee is quite as invincible as everyone thinks.
Watch it, ass blood.
by -ManBearPig on Dec 14, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
You keep using that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
is?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
/Bill Clinton'd
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Dec 14, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
actually the more I think about it
the more i think this doesn’t really change the playoff picture that much.
With all the off days, a 4th starter may only be needed once or twice even if the LDS goes 5, and the LCS and World Series goes 7.
How much of an advantage is Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels, over Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels, and two games of Blanton?
The Phillies lost a key offensive cog this off season in Werth, who was their best hitter in 2010. Lee does little to remedy that, other than increase the Phillies already pretty good odds of going to the playoffs. One also assumes that with Cliff Lee that Phillies have little room to add more offense.
Also the Phillies still have an adventurous bullpen.
Does Cliff Lee make the Phillies a better team? Yes of course he does.
Does Cliff Lee really improve their World Series chances? Not as much as more offense and a bullpen upgrade would.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 3:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think it makes a big difference
For one, Philly goes from probable to near certain to make the playoffs in the first place. They’re essentially replacing Lee with Kyle Kendrick or whoever was going to be their 5th starter. Second, even in a short series Lee has significant value over Blanton. Philly’s bullpen wasn’t stellar, but it was above average. I don’t see a couple of good relievers having as much value as the difference between Lee over Blanton.
The offense is taking a step back, though. Utley is still great but looks to have peaked and is becoming more of an injury risk. Howard hasn’t hit like in his first few years. Ruiz will probably regress after a career year. Polanco will be 35 and Rollins isn’t near the player he was a few years ago. Domonic Brown is really going to need to hit to stave off some of the offensive regression.
Also, this whole Lee-Philly saga has been very strange
The Phillies will definitely look back at 2010 as a lost year. They could’ve retained Lee for a fraction of what he will be making, but insisted on restocking the farm with mediocre prospects.
i think it makes a different over the regular season
as you said it turns the Phillies from a contender to a near playoff lock if everyone stays healthy. But a couple of bats and some bullpen arms would have put them in a better position for the playoffs.
But three aces is more than enough for the playoffs.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
i don't even know if they need another bat
it certainly wouldn’t HURT their cause, but that’s one stacked team already
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
they lost their best offensive peice of 2010
they are good, but replacing or retaining Werth i think would have done more for their cause than Cliff Lee.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
maybe
but when 4 out of 5 games you’re pitching one of Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels, more often than not you’re gunna need no more than 3 or 4 runs. Howard, Utley, Rollins, Victorino, et al will get you that most days I’d bet.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
they will be a force in the regular season
but an offensive upgrade would have served them better for the post season. As I stated above the only time this will be noticed is the one or two times Joe Blanton would start in the post season rather than Cliff Lee.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose you're right
It probably would’ve been a better allocation of resources. But at least in the short term—WOW they’re scary. Also, in a short playoff series, one of those guys comes out of the bullpen. No. Thanks.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
So the Yanks missed out on Lee
The Reds have some pretty decent starting pitching and need a LF……….discuss.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Someone recently...
threw out the name Granderson but he was met with such mockery I doubt he’ll ever come around here again.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
Its not that you brought Granderson
its that you said we should trade Volquez for him in order to save money because Walt had made such terrible moves
No no...
this comment didn’t directly relate to anything Jocketty did. The Reds are looking at across-the-board regression with their position players, and they have some of best pitching depth in baseball. Using an area of strength to shore up an area of weakness is the obvious thing to do.
And before anyone jumps all over the regression statement, the Reds’ position players led baseball in WAR last year. It’s not controversial to suggest that they’ll back off their 2010 mark.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
sure this time you did not mention how much you hate Jocketty
but you said someone recently threw out Granderson and was met with such mockery you’ll doubt he’ll ever come around here again. That was the time I was referring to
have you met Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs?
they ain’t regressing.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I would not expect regression from Brandon Phillips, as his performance has been steady for three straight years.
I also see no deterioration in any outfield position.
So, he’s half-right, half-wrong.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
The two HUGE areas for obvious regression are 3B and C
BP is almost a lock to do about what he always does, Joey might regress a bit, although I personally don’t think it’ll be by much (mainly because he could still add a bit of power and draw more walks, esp. now that he’s an MVP).
Bruce is really the only strong candidate to get a lot better. Stubbs is a big question mark. Would anyone be terribly surprised if he OPSed .800 or .715? Either one is possible, IMO.
That leaves SS and LF. I personally don’t think SS will regress at all, because it was terrible last year and probably can’t get much worse. Reds SS put up a .681 OPS last year. I’m not saying Janish is a lock to better that, but if he is playing worse than that I’d bet they find a replacement.
LF, depending on what happens, could easily be about the same, especially if they find a platoon partner for Gomes, or go with Heisey.
So, 1B, 2B, SS, LF should all be similar. C and 3B should be worse. RF should be better. CF is a crapshoot.
Doesn’t scream “panic and trade a young, cost controlled pitcher for an expensive, marginal upgrade” to me.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
but getting expensive marginal upgrades is the Tiger way
look at how fast they went from a young cheap team to an old expensive team.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
god I hope not
for the sake of Young Robert Stubbs
how’s about he actually, oh, I dunno… improves?
LIGHT TOWER POWER, ROOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAR
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 15, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind Granderson at all, not sure what it would take to get him
What’s he making these days anyway? Yes, I am too lazy/busy to look it up.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
5.5M
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
wrong
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
wow, more than I thought......maybe not
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Moving Cueto and Gomes would save around $6 million...
maybe get the Yanks to throw in a little cash in return for another prospect.
Lohse has a no-trade clause. Please tell your friends.
If both are healthy, I'm a bigger fan of Volquez than Cueto
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I might be just remembering earlier times
When the wheels would come off thisquick.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I'm remembering a bet we made
and then you backed out of it because your horse got hurt.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Ahem
YOU were the one to include an innings pitched requirement, fuckface.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
yeah, but you were the one that would have lost had I not
so I think you should pay the consequences.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
If he weren't hurt, he would have been better than Cueto
It’s scientific.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I am also in this camp
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 14, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
But I love Curtis Granderson.
And so does Martha Stewart!
I love Johnny, too, I just wanted an excuse to post this picture.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
I hate Martha Stewart with a blind and pointless passion
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
we all do
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I hate her because she's arrogant, prissy, excessively wealthy, and a felon.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
how is that different from you?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm cocky, not arrogant (there's a difference).
I’m far from prissy, I’m not a billionaire, and I’ve never been caught. :)
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 14, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
There's a huge difference
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Oh, jch - why must you always bring up my massive wang size?
blushing***
Martha’s got a nice little wiener, but it’s really no contest.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 15, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Vanity.
Definitely her favorite sin.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 14, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you put some flowers in a vase,
re-upholster the bench, and arrange the cotton balls just so.
by the finest muffins on Dec 14, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
That would give new meaning to the phrase "banality of evil"
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
If we're sending a pitcher who makes less, we could probably coax some cash from the Yanks as well.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
Yeah, I don't think money will be an issue if and when the Yanks decide to trade
If they are willing to part with a player for someone they want/need in return, they’ll pony up whatever money is necessary to make it happen.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Arroyo for Cano
get it down Walt!
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
that's racist!
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
you again?
If we get Granderson, you’ll just take more cheap shots at Walt
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 15, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
no
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Dec 15, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
his D isn't that great and he's not a great hitter
and he doesn’t get on base, the quality we need most.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
crap, I meant "the Reds"
I hate using “we” for sports teams. But then again, I think the OBP thing is an RR thing more than its a Reds thing, so maybe I’m right in which case phew
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
his obp against righties last year was 351
he is awful against lefties. but his numbers against righties are at least respectable
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Red Reporter
Related FanShots on Red Reporter
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
