Rosenthal - Reds to sign Arroyo to extension
by ken on Nov 8, 2010 2:44 PM EST
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PrintCan't say I'm surprised: Look for the Reds, who recently exercised right-hander Bronson Arroyo's club option, to complete a two-year extension with the pitcher this week. Including the option, which is believed to be worth $13 million, the value of the deal over three years is expected to be between $36 million and $39 million. The Arroyo extension could be the first of several long-term deals for the Reds this winter. General manager Walt Jocketty has said he'd explore multi-year contracts for first baseman Joey Votto, right fielder Jay Bruce and right-hander Edinson Volquez, all of whom are arbitration-eligible for the first time.
So essentially the Reds are guaranteeing Arroyo $23M-$26M for two years after 2011. That is not a discount in dollars, but it is potentially a discount in terms of years. If Arroyo duplicates his 2009-2010 next year he will be in line to get himself 3 or 4 years guaranteed with that annual salary. But there are several risks here: (1) Bronson's a 34 year-old pitcher, with all of the inherent injury and performance risk. (2) Relatedly, Arroyo's K-rate has declined for a few years (7.3/9 IP in 2008; 5.2 and 5.0 in the last two years). If that drops much more it will be hard for him to remain effective. (3) There's a shot that by 2012 Arroyo won't be the 5th best SP on the team. If that's the case this is not money well spent.
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Precisely what I thought before the LAST time we cut this deal, too.
I was pretty much proven wrong by his performance, I just hope he can do it again.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 8, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Terrible Idea
By mid season the only thing he will be better at than 5 other guys in line to start for the Reds is throwing 200 innings. His innings on a rate basis aren’t likely to be any better and absolutely are going to be a lot more expensive. Do the Reds not realize that they have a lot of young guys heading to arbitration over the next 3 years and that locking up a 30+ year old pitcher who doesn’t miss bats is a terrible idea? I guess not.
by dougdirt on Nov 8, 2010 3:50 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
I don’t like this. One year, sure. Three years? No. Not at his age.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I tend to agree
if the Reds didn’t have, Cueto, Volquez, Leake, Bailey, Chapman, and Wood who are MLB ready and then some now, and guys like LeCure and Maloney, who are MLB ready fill ins, I may feel differently. But in 2012 the Reds may be filled with younger, cheaper, and better options.
I wanted them to pick up his option, but I think signing him today is very premature.
I’m also kinda surprised Arroyo didn’t want to try his luck at free agency, if he keeps it together in 2011, he could have gotten more years.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
Agree, terrible idea
This was well-said. Declining peripherals are scary enough. Age is a concern, if not the carpel tunnel issues. The surplus of effective, young, and cheap pitching makes this a poor allocation of resources. Not a good deal – hope Rosenthal is wrong.
In management's defense they appear keenly aware of the need to lock in Votto and Bruce
Also, there’s a lot of value with a known quantity who’s been consistently good for 200 innings. Even with all of the young SP depth we currently have, there’s a good chance that a few of them won’t cut it, are moved to the bullpen, or get hurt. This deal is by no means a steal, but if Arroyo’s decline is gentle he should still have a slot at the back of the rotation.
He’s had quite a career in Cincinnati. He missed a lot more bats when the defense was terrible, but as that improved he adapted (by necessity, no doubt) to rely more on his fielders. His GB rate is much better over the past three years compared to his first two with the Reds. There’s also no discernable velocity downtick thus far. It would be interesting to see how similar pitchers aged in their mid-30s.
by ken on Nov 8, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think it was a conscious decision by Arroyo to miss less bats?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
I think he made that decision, yeah.
Whether it was conscious or not, only those on the Nasty Hook know.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 8, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I don't doubt that he has made some adjustment to make that happen
Here are his pitches per inning since joining the Reds:
2006 – 16.0
2007 – 16.3
2008 – 17.2
2009 – 15.4
2010 – 15.1
Improved defense has helped lower those numbers (less of a need to get “extra outs”), but I imagine it has also allowed him to be less afraid of the ball being put in play. At the same time, his ground ball rate has risen and his line drive rate has dropped. I imagine he feels more comfortable in his ability to get the hitter to hit the ball weakly and for that ball to get fielded successfully.
NOTE: What I am NOT saying here is that he could strike out a lot more batters if he wanted to.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I noticed on his fangraphs page that he threw a cutter much more in 2010
Only 7.3% of the time, but more than double that of any previous year. I don’t know enough about the PitchFX classifications to say whether that’s getting mixed up with his fastball (which was pitched less frequently). But given his recent emphasis on getting grounders, it makes sense.
by ken on Nov 8, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
We agree on something!
stop the presses!
I can understand picking up the option, but I don’t understand pissing away that kind of money for 2 more years….
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 8, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
I call a spade a spade
Walt made a bad move with this extension, unless the plan is to flip him mid-season 2011
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 11, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
i think walt is a good GM
but he has made bad moves, see Taveras, W.
Even better see the Mulder trade.
Every GM makes terrible decisions, nobody is immune from mistakes.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 11, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think Walt is a good GM as well
However, I do not think the Reds have extra walkin’ around money to blow on Arroyo’s extension
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 13, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
same for me
I get picking up the option, but don’t understand investing so much in him over the 2 years afterward. especially at the same price, what happened to the discount we were supposed to get if we signed him to additional years?
JayTheRed
Ok honesty, quit whining about the deal and this goes to the negative posters below. I can tell you right now that he will continue to have only so so strike out numbers. if this contract continues as what is predicted. 2nd. arroyo has proved over the past 3 seasons that he is very durable. Part of the reason for this is cause he throws from so many different angles. It actually puts less wear and tear on your arm. I know cause this is exactly how I pitched in High School and College and I never had any arm problems at all. Now I know what your going to say, Jay you were young tho. Thats true but my overall feeling is that based on this contract bringing Arroyo to age 37. I think that we will see the production we have seen in the past 3 years continue. ERA upper 3 area low amount of strikeouts per 9 innings and consistently keeping the Reds in games. Is the contract a little steep. Maybe.. but Show me another Pitcher that would actually sign with the Reds and produce as Arroyo has the past 3 years that is not considered a young pitcher. The Reds want a veteran leader in the rotation or they would just have all the kids pitch and see what happens. Don’t think that is going to happen.
Jason King
Just because someone has a different opinion of the Bronson deal, does not mean they're "whining".
If you want to see real bashing, check out Red Reporter…it’s crazy over there - hr
by RedsMasochist on Nov 9, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
arroyo has proved over the past 3 seasons that he is very durable. Part of the reason for this is cause he throws from so many different angles. It actually puts less wear and tear on your arm. I know cause this is exactly how I pitched in High School and College and I never had any arm problems at all. Now I know what your going to say, Jay you were young tho.
I love this part. So your proof that Arroyo won’t get hurt is that you threw from different arm angles in high school? come on now, not only are you two different people (a good argument, mind you) you were doing this for what, 3-4 years in high school? We’re talking about a professional pitcher here who throws an exponentially larger amount of pitches, in higher leverage situations, to higher leverage hitters, and has been doing it for a lot more years. basically there is no basis for this comparison. oh..and, Jay, you were young tho. sorry if you don’t find that valid, but it is.
I have no idea if Arroyo will get hurt in the next 3 years, but the point of everyone here is that the risk is only going up, and its going up fast given his age. Also the amount of times we’ve all seen the Reds burned on these types of contracts raises a cause for concern, especially since we have a number of good young pitchers. Not that I’m comparing arroyo to some of those other guys, I think the reds have a decent chance to break even or maybe come out ahead on this deal, but still, you can’t blame anyone for being concerned.
As much as I like our young arms
Have we seen any of them go an entire season yet? Cueto was pretty good this year, but none of the others were successful through the entire season. With Arroyo, you have a guy who keeps you in ball games most nights. He has bad outings from time to time, but rarely bad multiple outings. By mid-season, I didn’t trust Mike Leake anymore. Wood may be more consistent, but i’d like to see him pitch all year at this level. We don’t even really know if Volquez will be a strong pitcher all year yet. So… though our pitching staff gives us plenty of reason to be optimistic, there is an awful lot of uncertainty. Arroyo allows us to miss on one or two of these guys and still have a competitive team.
And we have a good team.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Exactly.
This isn’t a Milton or Harang case, where you’re stuck paying somebody 10 million to be terrible. Worst case scenario, I see us with a 200 innings of 4.90 ERA ball…not great, but by no means terrible. If keeping him in the rotation allows us to rotate 5 young guys through 4 spots to get them each between 140-190 innings a year, that holds significant value.
How much value do you put on NOT sending Volquez, Cueto, Leake, Wood, or Bailey out for the 7th inning when they’re sitting at 98 pitches? I value that a ton. That’s where Arroyo gets his money.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 8, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
That is nowhere near the worst case scenario
Worst case scenario is that he gives the entire tri-state area herpes.
But I caution the belief that this can’t be a bad deal for the team. Let’s not forget that when Harang signed his deal, he was coming off of two very good 200+ inning seasons and was about to throw his third straight very good 200+ inning season, and then injuries and ineffectiveness destroyed his value. Even if Arroyo is his usual self, he’ll be 35 in 2012. If he starts to fall apart, that could easily turn into a poorly spent $25M.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I agree with you on all of this.
I’m just waxing optimistic. Y’know, playoff birth and all.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 8, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well, wax off somewhere else
This is a family site, damnit!
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Speaking of which, fearless leader,
what’s going through your amazing idea brain these days? There’s bound to be a grand scheme to solve our roster/lineup/rotation issues on the cheap & quick. Is it too much to ask to get a “Slyde’s Guide to Tried & True Offseason Club Management?”
What would you do? Who would you go after?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 8, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
My brain spends most of my day changing poopy diapers and feeding bottles to the baby
I’m gonna leave this off-season to Walt. He’s got it under control. And to be honest, I haven’t had enough time to pay attention to who is available and who isn’t to figure out how to do it on the cheap, or even on the expensive. Though I hear Derek Jeter is available, or something.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
16 years later.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 8, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
i think being a soft tosser is a double edge sword
some can argue it means he will still be effective as he ages, because he knows how to pitch with limited “stuff”, but it can also be argued that he doesn’t have much to lose before he becomes ineffective.
If his curve ball straightens out just a bit, or if his 88 MPH fastball drops to 86, he can become real hittable real fast.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
What I don't like is the completely unnecessary timing of this.
Just pick up the damn option, and possibly deal with this later in the offseason or even next year if you decide you still want him.
If this is true, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the money lower than is being reported, simply because I could see Walt doing this in order to free up some money for players this year, a la Rolen last year.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Could this be seen as a signal to JV and JB that they're serious about remaining competitive?
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Nov 8, 2010 8:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
maybe
One of the perks of being a Red for JV and JB is partying with Bronson’s boat bimbos.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
i get the feeling Votto stays home and reads a book
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
uhhhh, that would be a false statement
he goes to mcdonalds
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
Bronson has nothing on Italian PM Berlusconi
Bunga, Bunga parties are all the rage
completely agree
What I don’t get is why they don’t just work this out after this season, you’d think it would be advantageous to see how he performed this season before investing this amount in him. I’d feel a little better about this if the amount is lower than what rosenthal quoted.
I wonder what kind of no-trade clause is included.
If the young guys are pushing him aside by mid-season, a solid mid-rotation innings-eater who is signed for multiple years at a reasonable price would be quite enticing to a pitching-starved contender. Maybe this is a way to get that elusive LF’er.
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Nov 8, 2010 8:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I believe he's a 10/5 guy in two years
Based on the service time listed at Cot’s.
by ken on Nov 8, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
This is my concern.
BBref lists Arroyo with 7.15 years of service as of January 2010. Tack on another full year, and he’s at 8.15. If he is not one of the top 4 SPs at the beginning of 2011, look for him to be traded.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
The good news
…is that Jockety disagrees with Rosenthal’s assessment.
Here’s my take – if the Reds need Arroyo to be worth $12-13M past ‘11, they’re not going to need a $12-13M pitcher.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
by sidnancy on Nov 8, 2010 8:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I will rec that.
Like I said above, much of Bronson’s value has been taking both the pressure and innings load off of the younger pitchers. If by 2012 Cueto, Bailey, and one of Wood/Volquez/Leake cannot go 200 innings, they’ve got much bigger problems than Arroyo’s contract.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 8, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
BTW
Joe Morgan and Jon Miller have gotten the boot at ESPN. I wonder if Morgan will take a bigger role with the Reds now.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Nov 8, 2010 8:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i don't know
i think morgan consistently running around the clubhouse naked, will provide a new level of previously unseen consistency in Cincinnati.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
How long till Marty retires?
imagine a broadcast of tHom and Joe?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
Don't even joke about that.
If you want to see real bashing, check out Red Reporter…it’s crazy over there - hr
by RedsMasochist on Nov 8, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think I heard that Marty just signed, or is going to sign, a 3- or 4-year extension
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Talk about over the hill…
Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.
Richard Dawkins
I thought he was giong to go part time after 2010
but if you heard it from Ken Rosenthal it may not happen.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 8, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
If this means teaching Stubbers to bunt, I'm all for it.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
he was "released"
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 8, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
He'll probably keep announcing with the Giants
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
i think this points to one thing
another starting pitcher is getting traded.
that aside, i think this deal is a push at best. it could turn out to be horrible.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand
This would
allow the Reds to trade from their depth at SP, which is risky without question, but I’d still be listening to offers.
One down........
lets sign the rest!
What are your opinions on Podsednik? Do you want him (on the team)?
What Would Joey Votto Do?
Fair deal all the way. He an innings eater a good #3 and should continue to perform well unless he is injured.
Go Bronson you slimy fucker
GIVE THIS PERSON A GUITAR AND TELL ME ITS NOT bRONSON
Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.
Richard Dawkins
i'm starting to realize madville is often right
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 8, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you Justin
Let me continue being right by commenting that
THE BENGALS SUCK COW INNARDS
Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.
Richard Dawkins
And now something that's really important:
I just hit a walkoff grandslam in the 11th inning with Joey Votto off of Ryan Franklin and the Cardinals in 2K10. It made me happy.
Also, Chapman went 7 innings, gave up 1 run. Struck out 6. Made Colby Rasmus look like an idiot twice. Rhodes squashed a rally in the 8th, and pitched the 9th, and Leake came on for the 10th and 11th innings to earn the win. Nix led off the 11th with a single, Phillips added one of his own, O-Cab laid down a sac bunt, but Franklin threw to second and failed to get Phillips because Franklin’s beard clouded his judgement and then Votto bent him over.
I shouldn’t get this excited over a video game. I’m like… slap happy or something.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
this seals it
Chapman should be a starter.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 9, 2010 2:34 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
cause you have no better proof, other than his contract.
by Eastwindquinn on Nov 11, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
his contract is a small reason
when trying to put a player into a position that he will have the highest positive effect on a team, I really don’t care about his contract. If there was undeniable evidence that Chapman won’t be able to hack it as a starter, I wouldn’t give two shits that his contract is pretty average for a big time relief pitcher.
What I care about is talent. I believe based on the fact that Chapman can throw 120 pitches, he had success in Cuba, and the fastest fastball in the game right now, he should get an opportunity to start. Which would you rather see, 70 innings of Chapman or 200 innings of Chapman? I’ll take the 200. We have a nice crop of young starting pitchers with Volquez, Leake, Wood, Cueto, Bailey, Maloney, and LeCure, and while all of those guys are capable of being solid pitchers none of them seem like they will develop into an “ace” who will dominate almost every time he takes the hill. They will put on nice runs, but they won’t be Lincecum, Lee, Carpenter, Wainwright, Hernandez, etc, who when they take the hill 6 IP of 3 ER is almost a let down. Having a big time top end rotation is the difference between going to the playoffs and winning a World Series.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 11, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Ahem
Not just the fastest fastball in the game right now. The fastest recorded fastball OF ALL TIME!
(I love that.)
by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2010 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
um, really?
How about the fact that he can maintain his plus plus velocity deep into games? How about the fact that he has 2 above average pitches plus a third that can flash average?
How about the fact that he is only 22 and still has plenty of development left? How about the fact that an average starter is worth more than all but the most elite relievers, and even then, it’s a wash?
There is absolutely no reason to make a guy a reliever if he can be a decent to good starter. This is exponentially more true when said guy has the potential to be a bona fide ace.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Randy Johnson was a project well into his late 20s
and wasnt really an ace until he was 30. of course, he didnt make his ML debut until age 24.
"Bronson Arroyo texted me from the high seas"
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 12, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
this is kinda way i was afraid to put him in the bullpen
i figured people with half a brain like Dusty and Walt would say, well if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
the 10/5 thing bothers me
I’d have loved to have Bronson able to be traded.
Sooo, uh, is this extension imminent or no?
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
i'm guess with the money he is making
if we want to trade him in 2012, he won’t be tradeable anyway, unless the team is falling apart around him, and then he may welcome an opportunity to go to a contending team, especially considering his age.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
If Bronson is surplus in 2012, he may well be tradeable.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
my concern is that Bronson in 2012 at around $12 mil
will not be tradeable.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 9, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Did the shortstop scene just become more interesting?
Probably not, but this from MLBTR anyway:
The Chiba Lotte Marines are posting the Pacific League’s most recent batting champion, according to Tim Kurkjian of ESPN The Magazine. The Marines are posting Tsuyoshi Nishioka this week and teams in the market for middle infielders will surely take notice; the 26-year-old switch hitter can play second and short.
Nishioka batted .346 with 22 steals and more hits (206) than any Pacific Leaguer since Ichiro Suzuki. ESPN analyst Bobby Valentine, who managed Nishioka in Japan, says he thinks the infielder has the tools to be "an outstanding shortstop," but suggests most organizations will consider him a second baseman.
Teams will soon be able to place bids for Nishioka through a blind auction. The organization with the winning bid will have 30 days of exclusive negotiating rights to reach a deal.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Nov 9, 2010 8:07 AM EST reply actions
we never get the big time international free agents...
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
I just signed on to post this and ask whether folks think the Reds might darkhorse their way into winning the Nishioka bidding.
Very interesting. At the very least, it deepens the free agent market and frees up someone else for the Reds’ taking.
Hello Adam Everett! /vomits
by Brian B on Nov 9, 2010 9:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or maybe not.
MLBTR update from this morning:
TUESDAY, 7:10am: Though it seems Nishioka wants to be posted, the Marines haven’t committed to it, based on quotes from a team official passed along by Jason Coskrey of the Japan Times. The player will make a formal request tomorrow and the team will decide after talking to him.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Nov 9, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno.
He’s young, he’s a switch hitter, and he’s got a lot of skills that seem to transition better to the states (think Ichiro, whose hallmarks are defense and havoc-y offensive presence). But he also seems to have some injury issues, which is not good for a 26 year old.
What’s the reason teams see him as a 2B rather than SS? He’s supposed to have a good range and a strong arm. (He’s been clocked at 88mph! He’s almost as good as Paul Janish!)
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
Per his Wikipedia page, he even played 2B in high school
Seems strange that a guy with the tools for SS wouldn’t even be the best middle infielder on his HS team. The injuries also scare me. On the other hand, he hits for contact, some power (while playing in the Candlestick Park of Japan), and has speed. Really sounds like an ideal leadoff hitter.
"What’s the reason teams see him as a 2B rather than SS?"
I would guess that’s because those are the teams who already have an established SS but need to fill 2B.
by Brian B on Nov 9, 2010 1:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think it's because
there seems to be a widespread belief that SS is harder to play in MLB, and Japanese shortstops usually end up moving to 2B.
That’s racist?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
It's because American balls are bigger.
If you want to see real bashing, check out Red Reporter…it’s crazy over there - hr
by RedsMasochist on Nov 9, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
THAT'S racist.
(This is also racist)
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
Other than Kaz Matsui, there haven't been any NPB shortstops that have tried to transfer
Plus, most Japanese players are already past their prime when they make the switch. That makes it tough for a guy playing a demanding position.
I’m not sure why SS would be necessarily harder in MLB. The concern is usually whether the NPB player can hit major league pitching.
by ken on Nov 9, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, there aren't a lot of infielders at all
And whenever there’s rumors of one being posted, it seems like they say the same thing: could play SS, but probably better suited to 2B in MLB.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I read his arm is considered too weak for short.
If you want to see real bashing, check out Red Reporter…it’s crazy over there - hr
by RedsMasochist on Nov 10, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
janish's wrists are too weak for a bat.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 10, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
I read that from Patrick Newman at fangraphs.
But wikipedia, that 100% reliable source, says that he has an exceptional throwing arm, and was clocked throwing 88mph (but with no citations). I guess it’s better to go with the non-wikipedia stance on this. I wonder how much it has to do with the artificial turf issue.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
I have no sound reasoning for disliking this.
I just think Arroyo is a fucking puke.
I do not like pickles.
Wouldn't the point of an extension be...
to defer this year’s salary to open up spending space for arb eligibles and possibly free agents? I’d be all for that.
hmmm seems like a bad deal
just sign the 2010 option and then see how that pans out. I don’t see why they wanted to rush into this extension, unless they think Arroyo was going to have some Cy Young type season.
he got a few votes in 2006.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Wins still have a few last gasps in them
but no one thought he was a Cy Young winner. 1 6th and 1 7th place vote.
Alternatively, those people were not in their right minds…
Arroyo's also denied that an extension is imminent
Per Fay: Bronson Arroyo texted me from the high seas — he’s on a cruise — and said he extension with the Reds is not done. "It’s not that close yet," he texted.
by ken on Nov 9, 2010 5:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
looks like i got my new sig
"Bronson Arroyo texted me from the high seas"
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 9, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
I. Love. This. Team.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
The one thing I really don't like about the contract proposed in the original post
is that the Reds aren’t really getting a discount over what Arroyo will likely get on the free agent market. I can’t see many teams rushing to sign a 35-year old, league average pitcher to a deal like this. I’m becoming skeptical that these are the real terms of the this deal.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
i hope youre right
youve been trusting the hell out of Walt lately, and i’d hate to see that tested.
"Bronson Arroyo texted me from the high seas"
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 9, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
well i mean every GM makes mistakes
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 10, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Always the poo-poo-er Justin
Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.
Richard Dawkins
but they also get bailed out!
/news corp’d
by ken on Nov 10, 2010 9:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Considering everyone actually involved (Walt, Arroyo) says it's not true, I'd say it's a safe assumption that these aren't the real terms.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
im sure Bron-Bron would be straight with us
he’s never been one to mince words.
"Bronson Arroyo texted me from the high seas"
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 10, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought he was singing Headjob Ledbetter...
Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.
Richard Dawkins
As long as the 2012 has a $2M team buyout...
I’ll go for this.
I’m still hoping that we trade him mid-season. Not because I don’t like him, but that means the kids have all grown up.
So I guess the Reds didn't "complete a two-year extension with the pitcher this week"
Ken Rosenthal is one of the best in the business?
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Maybe Arroyo wasn't able to sign
Somali pirates intercepted the FedEx.
by ken on Nov 20, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Probably Too Much....
…for another Rick Mahler type pitcher, but like Mahler he’s always been a good innings eater. The decline in K/9 is a real concern, but we had to anticipate this, considering that he relies on his curve (and aging, non-K/non-fastball reliant pitchers try to get more outs by other means). Of course, what is the alternative to Arroyo (if we had not signed him)?
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