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Hall of Fame ballot revealed: Barry Larkin and some other guys

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The BBWAA released this year's edition of their Hall of Fame ballot yesterday and once again, my name is conspicuously absent.  It's typical of the writers to black list a guy like me.  That whole organization is crippled by politics.  Well, that, and I meet exactly none of the criteria for consideration.  And the politics.  It's all politics.

I'll do my best though to set my personal venom aside and present to you the list of eligible inductees.  Here goes, in order of importance to me...

Star-divide

Barry Larkin

career rWAR - 68.8

I don't think I have to say much about this fella.  He should have a statue on Crosley Terrace by the end of this decade. 

Jeff Bagwell

79.9

Even though he played for the rival Astros, he was always one of my favorites.  He was one of the best hitters in the league in spite of playing in the Astrodome.  I'll always remember him for something I heard Craig Biggio say about him in Sports Illustrated or on TWIB or something like that.  Biggio said of his unique batting stance, "He's the only guy in the league who can practice his swing while sitting on the toilet."

Larry Walker

67.1

Many compare him to Jay Bruce, which I kinda like.  Some criticize him as a product of Coors Field and the 90's, but he was nevertheless an incredible ballplayer.  I'll always remember him for the AB he had in the All-Star Game against Randy Johnson when the Unit threw one over his head.  Larry responded by turning his helmet around and moving to the right-handed batter's box.

Edgar Martinez

67.2

He's considered to be the first big test case for the DH.  He spent the majority of his years toiling away in near-obscurity in the Pacific northwest, in the combined shadows of the Space Needle and The Kid.  And Detlef Schrempf. 

John Olerud

56.6

A rare breed indeed.  He was a 1B who never struck out and hit relatively few home runs during the Steroid Era.  He certainly could hit the snot out of the ball though, twice batting over .350.  I always liked him because he was the antithesis of hulking, glamorous sluggers of the day.  He was very unassuming, looking like a dork and wearing a safety helmet in the field.  That .398 career OBP though really gets my calculator multiplying.

Bret Boone

21.4

I never liked him all that much.  He always had a big wad of chaw in his mouth and it made him look like he had the mumps.

Alan Trammell

66.8

The White American League Barry Larkin.  If Barry's in, he is too.

Carlos Baerga

15.8

I loved those mid-90's Indians teams, and Baggy was probably the least among them.  He looked like my aunt's first husband Jeff, so Baggy will always be known as "Uncle Jeffy" to me.

Don Mattingly

39.8

The Yankees didn't start winning until he finally left.  So heh.  And I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!

Kirk Rueter

12.1

He seems like the most inconspicuous fella on this list, but I'll never forget the day I watched him pitch for the Expos against the Pirates in that hole Three Rivers Stadium.  The lady sitting behind us kept shouting, "Let's goooooo, Rueter!"  She probably shouted it 100 times by the end of the game.  My brother and I just snickered, elbowing each other and whispering, "It's pronounced "Rooter", dummy!"

Lenny Harris

-0.9

Uh, yeah.  That's a negative 0.9.  This guy was sub-replacement level for his career and he's up for consideration for the Hall of Fame.  Of course, he's not being considered for his playing ability, but rather his pinch-hitting ability.   My friend Joe Inglett led the NL in pinch hits this past season, so I want to give him a shout out for that one.  Good work, Joe!

And the rest of them:

Roberto Alomar
Harold Baines
Bert Blyleven
Kevin Brown
John Franco
Juan Gonzalez
Marquis Grissom
Bobby Higginson
Charles Johnson
Al Leiter
Tino Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Raul Mondesi
Jack Morris
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Dave Parker
Tim Raines
Benito Santiago
Lee Smith
BJ Surhoff

Comment 65 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I'd love to see Barry, Trammell, and Bagwell this year

But I don’t think all of them will get in this time around. Bagwell and Robby Alomar have the best shot this year since Alomar has waited his year for the spitting incident.

by FordhamRam on Nov 30, 2010 11:49 AM EST reply actions  

I think Barry should get in this year.

Ignorant question: Is this Bagwell’s first year of eligibility?

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Nov 30, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Then he's pretty much a lock not to get in.

I’d say it could take Trammell another year too.

As long as Palmeiro and McGwire don’t get in. And not because of steroids, but because they are Grade A Douchenozzles.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Nov 30, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Trammel's probably not gonna get in by the writers

22% last year, in his 9th. Hopefully the VC will right the wrong.

by ken on Nov 30, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Palmeiro is not a douchebag....period! (points finger at nycreds)

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Seconded

That guy makes my skin crawl every time I see him on television.

by GreatAmericanRedsFan on Nov 30, 2010 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I met him a while back...

He was very gracious while I busted his chops about killing my soul in 1999. He even gave me an autograph.

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker

by PeteyHendrix on Nov 30, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just looking into that

Apparently, Johnson threw over Kruk’s head at the All-Star game in ’93, but Kruk never turned around.

Johnson did it to Walker in ’97 and Walker moved to the other side of the plate.

by ben nevis on Nov 30, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm

it seems that perhaps i combined the two stories. Randy threw over Kruky’s head, but Larry turned his helmet around. i coulda sworn he threw over Larry too though, which was the reason why Larry turned around. i dunno.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 30, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

i have a friend who combines those two stories

i thought it was Walker not Kruk who turned around, glad to see I’m right.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Nov 30, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

it looks like they are two different stories

Johnson throws at Kruk, and Kruk smiles like an idiot.

Johnson throws at Walker, and Walker turns around his helmet and smiles like an idiot.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think his groin ever smiles.

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker

by PeteyHendrix on Nov 30, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't you be so cheeky!

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker

by PeteyHendrix on Nov 30, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If one more asshole cracks a joke about this....

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Nov 30, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I WILL POOP ON THEM

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Nov 30, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

... too far?

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Nov 30, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

too soon

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Nov 30, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

What happened was Walker hit right after Kruk

And did his hat switch and step across the box before he saw a pitch. Best ASG ever.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 30, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If Larkin doesn't get in this year...

something drastic.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Nov 30, 2010 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

Homerism and WAR aside

Trammell is a borderline HOFER.

Barry is a lock.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 30, 2010 12:30 PM EST reply actions  

Based on what?

just curious.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Nov 30, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Larkin has a slight edge in most offensive numbers

But a huge edge in steals.

And Barry’s MVP is the feather in his cap that Trammell doesn’t have.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 30, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Trammell probably should have won the MVP in 1987

He was much more deserving of it than George Bell.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Nov 30, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

This is Bleleven's year right?

74.2% of the vote last year. I’d say Bert, Alomar and Larkin are all pretty likely.

And I’d vote for Raines, Bagwell, McGwire, Walker, Trammel and Edgar on top of those three, but I don’t see any of that group getting in this ballot.

Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 30, 2010 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

They say Concepcion has a pretty good chance to get in this year via that other ballot, right?

How cool would it be to have two longtime Reds shortstops/captains get into the hall in the same year?

by the finest muffins on Nov 30, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Alomar and Bert are likely

I think a lot of writers held back on Alomar last year because they didn’t think a “spitter” should be a first-ballot guy. Both him and Bert were so close last year that they only need a few extra voters to get in.

I think Larkin will have to wait one more year. He got about 50% last year. That’s respectable for the first time, but it typically takes more than one year to gain another 25% of the electorate. Sandberg got in his third year after debuting at about 50%. I said last year that I think Larkin will follow the same route.

Jack Morris will be interesting. He barely beat Larkin last year and he’s running out of time. He’s also been discussed so much that I don’t think his camp will be able to persuade enough voters to switch. But he’s got a shot so long as ’80s nostalgia continues to grip our consciousness.

I’d vote for a lot of these guys, but I’m a big Hall guy: Larkin, Bert, Bagwell, Raines, McGwire, Trammel, Edgar, and possibly Parker and Murphy.

by ken on Nov 30, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

You are probably right on Larkin

I guess I’m just in disbelief that there would be so much doubt, especially with the recent progress in MVP/CYA voting, but the hall voters are a significantly older, more traditionalist electorate, right?

Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 30, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

The HOF voters are the 10-year BBWAA members, so most of the younger, more saber minded voters are kept out. The award voting doesn’t have that restriction.

The other issue with the HOF is the volume of voters. There are something like 500 10-year BBWAA members (I love how Hal’s badge no. is 16; sorta like Monty Burns’ drivers license). It will take decades before we see a real shift in HOF voting trends, imo.

by ken on Nov 30, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That's a cool list

Hard to believe there are guys who have been writing about baseball longer than my MOM has been alive.

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

heheh

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

so what I'm learning by looking at that list is

in order to be a baseball writer, I have to have a cool old-person name like Seymour or Murray

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Dec 1, 2010 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

i'm naming my son Seymour

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Dec 1, 2010 1:48 AM EST up reply actions  

is there a Mr. Butts here?

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 1, 2010 3:05 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I hope Blyleven gets in just so I don't have to hear him bitch again about not getting in

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

My ballot:

Barry Larkin
Dave Parker
Tim Raines
Jeff Bagwell
Kevin Brown
Fred McGriff
Benito Santiago
Lee Smith
John Franco

5 former Reds – all deserving.

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker

by PeteyHendrix on Nov 30, 2010 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

Several of those guys belong in the hall of very good

My definites:

Larkin
Raines

Fringe:

Bagwell (Great but not spectacular numbers for a 1b)
Smith (saves still don’t mean much to the hall)
McGriff (see Bagwell)

No way:

Parker (numbers just aren’t there)
Santiago (mysterious late-career power surge while in the bay area)
Franco (see Smith)
Brown (just not enough wins, no cy youngs)
Franco (

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 30, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Brown should go into the Hall of Very Good

he was a very good pitcher, but just wasn’t dominant for a number or years like Glavine, Maddux, Clemans, Johnson, Martinez, etc.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Nov 30, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Re:

I think you’re selling Bagwell short. I favor peak over durability, and Bagwell had an awesome peak: 8 years of 311/428/583, 164 OPS+, with steals (19 a year), an MVP, and good defense. McGriff was never as good, or if he was it was only for a season or two. Bagwell’s held back by a relatively early retirement, but I don’t think a lack of a few extra average seasons that others tack on at the end should be held against him.

by ken on Nov 30, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Bagwell definitely has the edge

But I don’t think either of them are among the greatest 1b to play the game.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 30, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I had forgotten about roids with regard to Benito.

Wasn’t Alomar also tied to roids?

As for Brown, don’t dismiss him because he doesn’t have a ton of wins, which tie directly to CYA. From 1995-2001 he was dominant, despite half those years playing on a losing team. His stats for this 7-year period were:
102-54
2.65 ERA
159 ERA+
1.072 WHIP
0.5 HR/9
3.76 K/BB

Imagine if he teams weren’t the suck.

He was in the top 6 in CYA balloting 5 times in his career (two second-place finishes), and 4 times in a 7-year span.
6-time All-Star.
He made 333 straight starts.
Only 39 pitchers in history have garnered as many CYA vote points.
6 times he was in the top 3 pitchers in WAR.
Led the league in ERA twice, and finished in the top five 6 times.
Finished in the top five in Adj. Pitching Wins 6 times.
Nine times he finished first or second in PUTOUTS BY A PITCHER.
In career PUTOUTS BY A PITCHER, he is second ALL-TIME only to Greg Maddux.
In seven seasons he finished in the Top 5 in ASSISTS by a pitcher.
IN career
Only 5 starting pitchers since 1970 have a career HR/9 better than Brown’s 0.57.

Kevin Brown was one his era’s best pitchers.

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker

by PeteyHendrix on Nov 30, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he belongs in The Hall.

I don’t think he’ll get in, but he belongs there.

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker

by PeteyHendrix on Nov 30, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he's got a case

He’s got the numbers. A big problem for him, Smoltz, and some others is competing against Pedro,Maddux, Unit and Clemens. Pitching 20 years earlier might’ve helped, but playing for a bunch of teams, a few playoff meltdowns, and generally being a dick will keep him out.

by ken on Nov 30, 2010 9:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think if Smoltz didn't lose 4 years to the bullpen, and one to the DL, he would be a shoe in

he would have over 250 wins and wouldn’t be terribly far from 300. I think Smoltz is a HOF pitcher but we will see what the writers think.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Nov 30, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i think Smoltz gets in

i think the 4 years in the ’pen will be seen as a resume builder rather than a detriment. and i think having Glavine and Maddux without Smoltz would be like the 3 Stooges minus Larry. sure, they wouldnt lose anything in the funny department, but it just wouldnt be the same, you know?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 30, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

it is a shame Smoltz pitched last year

they could have all gone in as first ballots together.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Nov 30, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Smoltz will get in

a real test case will be Mike Mussina. Andy Pettitte will be interesting to me as well. Clemens will be interesting from the steroids angle. Schilling will be interesting because of the win total, and some steroid suspicion. Lots of interesting cases.

Kevin Brown simply won’t get in. Great peak, underrated pitcher, but won’t come close.

by kcgard2 on Dec 1, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Mussina and Pettite both belong in the Hall of Very Good

Pettitte has been a solid pitcher for a long time, but he was never great.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Dec 2, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree on Pettitte

but he gets the Yankees bump, and great win totals for playing on those dominant Yankees teams as well, so I will keep an interested eye on his candidacy.

I am a small-Hall guy, and even I would be OK if Mussina got in. I think he might fall just short though. Which will not make me disappointed, especially, unless several inferior pitchers do go in, which I also think is rather likely.

by kcgard2 on Dec 2, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

my lasting memory of Kevin Brown

will be him completely losing his shit in Fenway while the Red Sox fans chanted “KEVIN!”

Might’ve been the most fun playoff game I’ve ever seen on tv.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Dec 1, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

i have no lasting memory of kevin brown

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Dec 1, 2010 1:48 AM EST up reply actions  

my lasting memory of him

is his breaking his hand punching a wall.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 1, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

My ballot:

Bagwell
Larkin
Trammell
Blyleven
Raines
Alomar
E. Martinez

by kcgard2 on Nov 30, 2010 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

my ballot

Lenny Harris

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Nov 30, 2010 4:59 PM EST reply actions  

Larkin obviously, Baggs (nails) Martinez (if you’re gonna have a DH…, ) Olerurd (Brain surgery? wow. Plus, I like nitch hitters) Trammel (also obvious), Baines (Longevity), Franco (I am a homer, and always root for the screwballers because of him), Smith (Because i would tell him no to his face)

by Eastwindquinn on Dec 1, 2010 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

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