Arroyo's 2011 option to be be picked up
The Reds will pick up the $11 million option for pitcher Bronson Arroyo, GM Walt Jocketty said on Saturday afternoon.
"We're definitely picking up the option," Jocketty said. "We'll try to extend him but I don't want the focus on that right now."
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that's good news .. arroyo will probably remain the same pitcher for at least another 5 years
"And a high fly ball to center field. He hit it a ton. And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!"
I'm not sure I buy that
I’m not a big fan of an extension. But I would definitely pick up his option.
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i tend to agree with that.
i guess if there is any pitcher who will continue to be productive at the age of 38, it is Arroyo. But with all the cheap young cost controlled pitching, I would have a difficult time extending Bronson beyond 2011.
Perhaps if the Reds didn’t have 8 other big league ready productive options I would feel feel differently and would want an Arroyo extension.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
i keep hearing that
Which reds propects are ready 200 innings of league average or better production next season, again?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 9, 2010 7:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, Travis Wood threw 202 innings this year
and Johnny Cueto threw 185. I think both are reasonable bets for 200 next year. I’d put Volquez and Leake in the 200 inning boat in 2012, if they are healthy.
I don’t think I’d be in a rush to sign Arroyo to an extension.
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Pencilling in anyone other than Arroyo for 200 is pretty bullish
by ken on Oct 9, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Not 'penciling' in anyone there
But it’s not like we don’t have anyone that’s sniffing 200 IP other than Arroyo. Cueto needs to add a half inning a start, which is the progress he made this year. Wood has already pitched 200. Let’s not act like nobody is at that level.
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by Slyde on Oct 9, 2010 9:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
didnt bailey pitch 200 combined innings last year?
Sniffing 200 for the first time hardly qualifies one as a reliable starter.
Im bullish on wood. Bailey, cueto, leake and volquez have a history of short seasons…just sayin.
That said im worrying about ss, lf and 3b for next season. One of the arms might be dealt along with alonso in the offseason.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 9, 2010 11:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cueto has a history of short seasons?
3 straight years of 170+ innings at the age of 24? Come on, now. The main thing that has held Cueto back is his age and pitch efficiency. He’s made some steps on both this year.
I understand the point you are making, but don’t act like these guys have never pitched more than 130 innings in their lives. Besides, I’ve already said they should pick up Arroyo’s option for next year (several times). I’m just not sure about negotiating an extension right now.
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But how do Wood's minor league IP translate to the big leagues?
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
mind you, I'm not advocating an extension at all
Bronson will want three years minimum, and I ain’t down with that at all. I think we’ll be fine if for no other reason than a glut of major league capable starters.
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
No idea
my point is to say that we’re not dealing with a bunch of guys who can’t handle that workload. It’s not like getting to 200 innings would be a huge jump in work for either Wood or Cueto next year. That’s all I’m saying.
And every pitcher is an injury risk. Even Arroyo. Yes, he’s been healthy, and he definitely is an unusual pitcher. But he’s also thrown a helluva lot of pitches the last 5 years. I don’t expect Bronson to get injured, but his risk is definitely not zero.
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Still sounds like there's room in the rotation for Arroyo
Given the variance with pitching performance and health – especially with younger guys – I don’t see all four of our “reasonable bets” for (or even “sniffing”) 200 IP actually achieving that. Last year 20 NL pitchers threw 200+; 8 were younger than 28. 31 guys threw 190+; 13 were younger than 28. Even if Cueto is a relatively sure thing as far as young pitchers go, there’s too much risk to count on the rest of the lot becoming workhorses. Plus, even if the four are able to stay healthy and relatively effective (say 180+ IP), there’s still a lot of value in the extra 30 innings Arroyo’s been able to provide in terms of saving the bullpen and keeping the ball out of the hands of some our lesser arms.
Whether Arroyo can keep it up is a separate issue. His last 1.5 years has gone a long way to convincing me that he can, though like I said the balls in play are still a concern. Still, his peripherals and velocity have been fairly consistent the past couple of seasons. He’s also become a better groundball pitcher. So I’m optimistic, aging patterns be damned.
Tell me about it
I’m still a relatively young pup, but damn, I woke up this morning feeling like Scott Rolen. My back is stiff as hell. Then again, I’m only a year younger than him and in MUCH worse shape.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
That explains why I ache from head to toe in the morning
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
Bailey threw 200 innings last year between AAA and MLB.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 9, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
totally agree with this analysis
love picking up the option, dont think extension is cost effective.
so the announcers were right last night
Not exactly a shock, I guess. I was expecting the Reds to keep one of Arroyo and Harang, and, well, I don’t think it’s going to be Harang.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
will he be our #1?
He didn’t want the opening day start, and there’s Volquez, Cueto, even Wood with a claim to it.
We’re going to have another year of 5 #2 or #3 pitchers. Which isn’t all bad.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
he wasn't our #1 in the playoffs this month
I think he’d be fine with being #2 behind Volquez or Cueto.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
does it really matter?
he just needs to keep putting up 200+ innings, keep his ERA under 4.5, and take the ball every 5 days.
I would love for Bailey, Volquez, Cueto, Leake, and/or Wood to out pitch that next year.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
Not for $11M
But as long as the extension doesn’t have a no-trade clause, sure, why not? If all the other guys kick butt, we trade Arroyo, and if the worst-case scenario is that we keep Bronson, well, that’s one hell of a good worst case scenario.
if he gets extended
he would be a 5 and 10 player by 2013 or so.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 9, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You can bet your sweet ass after what happened in Boston, he'll demand a no-trade clause
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
he signed he last extension without an no-trade clause.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 10, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
matters a little
starting on first day means reds can take most advantage of his ability to eat up innings
Extension
Sounds like they’re talking the option year plus two: “I don’t think they’re willing to go past three years — the option and two years,” Arroyo said. “I’ll take as long as possible because I enjoy playing in the same place. I feel like I can stay healthy and give the team their money’s worth.”
That would take Arroyo through his age-36 season, which isn’t bad for a finesse pitcher. Hopefully his K rate has bottomed out at 5 per 9 innings (5.2 in ‘09, 5.0 this year). If it gets much lower there’s simply too many balls in play for him to be effective.
sounds good to me
1. we get him back, and
2. we’re not signing him through old age based on what he did as a young man.
i heart walt.
It's a little weird to have a FO that has a fucking clue
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
It's a little weird to be in the playoffs.
Here’s to a little weird.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
to be fair
I think obrien and krivsky had a clue…
And leatherpants drafted votto.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2010 9:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
O'Brien added some nice draft pieces.
Krivsky made some brilliant moves himself – remarkable, really, how much talent he brought in in his short stay. Grabbing Phillips and Hamilton for peanuts is a masterstroke. The Pena for Arroyo deal worked out slightly in our favor too, I think. He was doomed by poor interpersonal skills, and his flurry of desperate trades at the end of 06 did not reflect a long-term strategy.
The biggest gripe against Krivsky is that he drafted a strikeout machine (Stubbs) before a strikeout machine (Lincecum), but obviously there’s that little thing called hindsight helping me out.
"slightly is our favor?"
That trade was a pretty huge steal. Just as huge as Phillips and Hamilton.
Krivsky downfall was wasn’t finding talent on the cheap, it was spending money poorly when he had it. Stanton, Cordero, Paterson, etc.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Oct 10, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Bob trusted him as much
Walt has had the ability to clean house while Krivsky was only able to work in constraints, I think.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
I was being facetious.
Since it was recently pointed out that Pena is now playing for the Beavertown Beavers or some such.
Soon to be joined by Juan Francisco…?
I just hope it won't hurt contracts for Votto and Bruce
I suppose with Cordero coming off books after next year, there might be some money, but I’d rather be spending the money on the young talent.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Oct 9, 2010 9:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with this.
I’m ok with Bronson for next year. But I don’t see a point in trying to work an extension now. Pitchers get hurt. And how likely is it that he’s going to have a better year next year than he had this year? I’d expect him to fall off a bit, even if he’s still a solid 4.2 ERA guy w/ 200 IP. I think you can still sign the guy next year, and probably for less money.
The most important things that the club should be doing this offseason are signing Votto and Bruce to long term extensions, assuming they are willing to take the potential hit on earnings for lifetime financial security. Most young players are. The first 20 million year earn is the most important 20 million…or so I hear. The Reds should have done this last offseason with Votto, frankly, but I guess it’s possible that he’s not interested.
-j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
If you wait, you run the risk of pissing him/his agent off
You can’t always wait and see and hope for regression to save a million bucks. Sign him to a two year extension and get it over with says this guy.
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
Agree
There’s definitely a risk in signing him now, but if he has another solid season it’ll take more than 2 years to sign him. And definitely more money.
I guess I'm willing to take that risk
I think it’s pretty unlikely that it will be a good idea to extend him past next season. I’ve long been wrong about the guy, but I just don’t trust him to keep it up beyond next year. Not even positive about next year… -j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
by JinAZ on Oct 10, 2010 8:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with this
Picking up the option is a good idea. Extending Bronson is not something I want to happen. Bruce and Votto are due big raises, but the biggest issue is I don’t think Bronson remains a quality pitcher much longer. I hope they let him walk after the option year.
I do that in a heartbeat, as long as it's not outrageous
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
More importantly I'm doing the work that Thundering Turtle promised me two (2) years ago that he would do..
I’ve done TWO Dr. T…(see Mesoraco, Sappelt in Southern League Top 20)…am I going to have to do them all?
"Ahhh! Yoda's little friend you seek!"
Yoda.
Trades before next season?
Eight starting pitchers for 2011: Arroyo, Volquez, Cueto, Wood, Bailey, Leake, Chapman, Maloney.
So who goes where? Chapman the closer? Maloney, Leake to the minors? Bailey stuck as a #5 again?
Walt will want to make this team stronger in the offseason and too many starters = chips for trades.
I would argue that he incorrectly included Maloney.
It is extremely useful to have guys like Maloney and LeCure hanging around, because they are exceptional at their jobs: spot-start callups from AAA. They would make the rotation for a number of clubs, and it’s nice to have them as reserves. But, I don’t think they’re in the same ballpark in terms of talent as the aforementioned others.
i agree
i don’t think Maloney or LeCure would get us much on the trade market, and having 9 mlb ready starting pitchers is huge, because there is a good chance 1 or 2 miss serious time with an injury, and one or two may fall off a cliff.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 10, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think CoCo is still going to be the closer, we've got him for another year under K.
So, I’d imagine we’ll package 2-3 of the pitchers and maybe a Yonder (contingent upon signing Joey to a multi-year) for an top of the line starter.
At least that’s what I dream about.
Gotta be careful, though.
A year or two ago, everyone was wanting to trade Homer and Cueto or others for Erik Bedard, who was considered an established top of the line starter. They can fall apart too.
Yeah, I'd want playoff experience to be a prerequisite
Basically, I really wish we had Cliff Lee on our team right now.
I think most people here were against that
But I didn’t remember the really crazy rumor until a look back at this thread:
I am hearing that the Cincinnati Reds might be falling for this “M’s-Orioles Trade Talks Heating Up” thing and might have internally agreed to include Homer Bailey, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto and a fourth player, possibly a young player from their 25-man roster.
The 4th guy was Edwin.
Bedard
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Oct 10, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought those people were idiots
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 10, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Bailey's going to be a closer someday
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
oh god yes
Homer Bailey, future Reds closer
by Highlifeman21 on Oct 10, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
once
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 13, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear Lord
Please let the Reds play solid baseball tonight and pick up the W. Then allow the team to win the next 10 games after that. Amen.
Sincerely yours,
Three Of Spades
He called me a baboon, he thinks I'm his wife.
Elated to be at tonights game
I don’t give a rats about 0-2, I’m going to the damn playoffs!
by bobestes on Oct 10, 2010 1:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I just really hope they can win tonight, so that we get 2 home playoff games.
After the thrill ride of this season, it would be a bit of a letdown to only get 1 playoff game.
Also, I really, really don’t want to watch Philly clinch in GABP, although that seems pretty likely at this point.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I see Carson Palmer had a bad day
And holy jeez, when did Detroit become good?
I thought it was fluke when they almost beat the Packers. I guess not.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Please punch the phillies in the nose hard as heck early ond often.
Need to see the team that won the central over 162, not the disaster. Do or die, we’ll see what they are made of.
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