Season Recap: Louisville Bats
Well, it's officially the offseason. We've had some good posts so far this week about who to get in free agency, but what about the guys already here? In this series we'll give you a better idea of what went on in the 2010 minor league season, and try to project a "state of the organization", kind of. A lot of the deals that the team could make in free agency could have long term ramifications, so let's see what we already have.
Overview
The Louisville Bats went 79-64, and won the IL West by just 1/2 game over Columbus. Their playoff series faced them against Durham, the same team they played last season, and we saw similar results, with the Bats losing the series 3-2 in 5 games.
League Leaders
Chris Valaika finished highest on the team in hitting, placing 7th in the league with a .304 average. The most impressive batting performance is arguably that of Wladimir Balentien, who finished 2nd in the league in slugging at .536, 5th in the league in OPS at .873, 3rd in the league in homers with 25, and 8th in the league in RBI with 78. Zack Cozart also made the leaderboards, placing 5th in the IL with 141 hits, 5th in the IL with 30 SB, and his 91 runs scored were tops in the league.
On the pitching side, there were a few bright spots, led by Matt Maloney, who finished 4th in the league in ERA at 3.34. Aroldis Chapman was the only Bat to make the list for strikeouts, with 125, finishing 5th in the league. That's pretty impressive for a debut, but out of the top 5, he only pitched 95 2/3 innings while the 4 guys in front of him all pitched over 150 innings. Chapman also finished 6th in walks with 52.
Follow us after the jump for some end of season awards...
So nycredsfan and I both voted on 4 categories for each level, to compare our viewpoints. Here's who we picked for the Bats:
MVP
nycredsfan: Wladimir Balentien
BK: Wladimir Balentien
Unanimous here, and I don't think there's anyone else we could have picked. Wlad batted .282/.337/.536 with 25 homers and 78 RBI in 401 AB, and surprisingly never saw the major league roster. The most impressive part of Wlad's season was after the all-star break, where his line was .368/.418/.730, for a 1.148 OPS. All of this, and the guy's only 26. Is there a chance the Reds are able to bring him back next year in some capacity? Would you rather see him in the outfield than Jonny Gomes?
Most Surprising Player
nycredsfan: Chad Reineke
BK: Daniel Dorn
nyc went with a guy who put together a pretty solid season for being a relative unknown. Reineke started in the bullpen, but moved to the rotation eventually, and put up a 3.91 ERA and 83 strikeouts in 131 1/3 innings. Not only that, he was a rock down the stretch, and if this was 2002, would have probably seen some innings in Cincinnati in September. Look, I'm sure he's a great guy, but I'm glad that didn't happen.
Daniel Dorn surprised me because I didn't really expect him to be substantially better after a surprisingly solid debut AAA season in 2009. In a predominantly DH role, Dorn really turned it on this year, batting .302/.398/.545 for the year, but yet, is another guy who the team didn't feel deserved a look at the big league level. If he continues to hit this well, I think there's a chance we see him get some ABs next year.
Most Disappointing Player
nycredsfan: Todd Frazier
BK: Todd Frazier
No brainer here. To his credit, Todd really picked it up at the end of the year after a slow start, but for a guy who was voted the number 1 prospect in the system, not getting out of AAA isn't what you want to see. His numbers ended up at .258/.333/.448, which is respectable, but I think he's going to really need to step it up next year. The good news is that he's still fairly young at 24, and his strong finish to the year (.323/.437/.495 in August) has me encouraged that he'll develop into at the very least a solid utility player.
Sleeper
nycredsfan: Daniel Dorn
BK: Matt Maloney
We made this award for someone who had a really good season, but did it under the radar, and I think Dorn definitely is a pretty good pick here. Any time a guy that most people haven't heard of puts up a .944 OPS, that's a sleeper to me.
Did anyone else realize that Maloney's K/BB ratio in AAA this year was almost 4/1? He had 104 K in 134 2/3 innings, with only 28 walks, but got overshadowed by other guys in that rotation who also performed well (LeCure, Wood, and Chapman for most of the year). As long as he's in the organization, he's a guy who I have complete confidence in to give us a good start when we need it, and I'm really wondering what Walt is going to do with guys like him and LeCure with the huge starting pitching surplus we have right now.
Let us know what you think, and we'll be running these for the next few weeks. The offseason that puts us over the hump is just getting started, it's time to take these prospects and build a championship team with them.
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Comments
I don't think of Dorn as an unknown
Perhaps because he was a hot prospect when I first came over here. He was one of the minor leaguers RRs were talking about.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
hes well past Rule 5 age, and still hasn't been picked up
Even if his splits are something to behold, I still don’t know what’s supposed to happen to him. He deserves a look at the MLB level somewhere, so if it aint here, he should go somewhere with the LeCures and Maloneys.
Man, I like these guys so much more than hoping for Mark Schramek.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
I wonder if he's injury prone
He seems to have missed a lot of time over the years.
Or maybe he’s been pegged as a tweener? Bat not good enough for 1B/DH, glove not good enough for anything else?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
the second is my guess
something in the Shelley Duncan, Rob Stratton field. You’ve seen him in person, though. Is he athletic at all?
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
hard to say
He’s DHed or played 1B most of the games I’ve seen him in, and it doesn’t take a lot of athleticism to play those positions.
And of course, the knock on Votto when I first came here was that his defense was bad, and he’s done okay…
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I think Votto is an above-average first baseman defensively.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure myself
The various defensive stats are mixed, and I don’t trust them anyway.
But with his bat, it doesn’t matter. Average defense is fine.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I wouldn't say he is much more than above-average.
His arm is really good, and he positions himself well and does an excellent job on scooping throws. It all looks like concentrated, practices effort to me, as opposed to being “a natural” at the position. That said, I think he could hit glove his way to a GG sometime in his career.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always struggled to judge 1B defense, personally.
What’s more valuable, the agility to guard the line and move 2 steps to second to snag grounders, or the hand-eye coordination to bail out errant throws by your other infielders? Personally, I’ve seen Joey dig out poor throws quite a lot more often than I remembered him from years past, and I’m not sure exactly how that’s valued, I just know he does it and does it well.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The dig/scoop is more important IMO
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
I don't think I agree
Jason Giambi was considered a master of the dig/scoop. Supposedly because of the horrible infield in Oakland.
But he was considered a sucky defender, because he was so bad in the other things.
I have trouble judging first basemen, too, but the ones who are considered good generally have good range. Or so it seems to me.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Balls hit to 1B out of your range tend to be of two varieties
Stung (LH) or hooking (RH). It’s an instinctive position when it comes to ground balls. The right handed guys with great instincts end up at 3B for obvious reasons. The LH guys and the RH guys with less-than-stellar instincts end up at 1B. Scooping/digging is what separates the RH guys from being a 1B or a DH.
Put this way: How many balls ripped down the 3B line have a play made on them versus the balls hit down the 1B line?
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
I honestly don't know
All I know is that Teixeira makes plays Giambi would only look at. He gets to balls that seem impossible to get to.
Also, he’s got a good arm. At least compared to Giambi, who throws like the mayor of Cincinnati.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
he started out as at 3B
So did Teixeira, actually, though he was moved to 1B much sooner than Youk.
Maybe they’re guys with good instincts, but not good enough to play 3B at the big league level.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
well, Youk still plays third
and well, but maybe you’re right about Tex. Couldn’t quite cut it at 3b, but makes a great 1b.
ive seen him a few times
i’d say he’s certainly more athletic than Duncan, even more so than Alonso. perhaps he’s just a butcher in LF. iirc, his TZ numbers in LF are close to average.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Seems like Seattle would have nothing to lose in giving him a shot
They’ve had some really bad 1b/dh types lately.
by ken on Oct 13, 2010 8:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think
he first became rule 5 eligible last year. And last year was a really bad one for him. OPS below .800 for the first time in his career. It was also his first taste of AAA.
I think this year, there may well be some interest in him.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
it would be about #4 on my list of wants
but a platoon in LF of Dorn and Gomes next season wouldnt be the worst thing to happen to this team.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
True enough. It would be bad defense and pretty good offense every day.
I could live with that if worst comes to worst.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
but
is he worth a roster spot?
The Reds didn’t think so last year.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yeah, I'm all about giving Bladdy some AB's.
Does anyone know if Bladdy had Bizarro splits again this year?
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, back to normal
.796 against righties
1.096 (!) against lefties.
Screw Gomes. If he can crush lefties even close to that level, put him in a LF platoon!
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
sorry, 1.065 against lefites. But still.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
To trade to the Royals. :)
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i think we can pretty much forget about Balentien.
The Reds do not care for him, and they have said as much. He should have made the roster out of spring training or at the very least have gotten a call up when he slugged his way out of an early season slump. But he wasn’t, and Dusty and Walt blew off questions about him. I wish him the best.
by Brian B on Oct 13, 2010 8:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
IIRC it was the first year he was eligible
I’m almost rooting for him to get picked up this time, I’d like to see him get a chance somewhere, the Reds have enough OF options otherwise, and probably more on the way. doesn’t seem like his trade value is really enough to look to deal him unfortunately, so it will come down to either the rule 5 or free agency (not sure when the Reds lose control of him).
Probably been mentioned elsewhere too, but Devin Mesoraco went 3-4 with a homer last night in his first AFL game
apparently the homer went opposite field and was a monster shot.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
(in my best/worst Brantley voice)
Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy…
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 9:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
devin would be my choice for biggest surprise...
his numbers prior to this season left no indication that we was this kind of hitter. it’s like we’re looking at two different players.
in 2010 he shot up through the organization and made his case as a legit candidate for the major league roster in 2011 (not saying that he’ll be on the opening day roster, but still).
his K% went down, his OPS went way up, and he clubbed 26 HRs/25 2Bs/5 3Bs (!).
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
and he made it to louisville so he qualifies in my mind :)
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
He got his highest number of PAs in Carolina, so expect him to be all over that list.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i understand
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
"i understand" is not typical vernacular for females.
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
by GrooveLeg on Oct 13, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
but you don't understand!
Twss
You're never as bad as you look when you lose. You're never as good as you look when you win.
This should be green
Andro, make it so.
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
Thanks for explaining the joke, k.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
I was thinking this morning about something we haven't really talked about.
Is Ryan Hanigan trade bait? In nearly 200 career MLB games, he’s slashing .279/.379/.373 w/ 10 HR, 62 RBI, and more walks than K’s. His defense and arm have been stellar, and we all know how we pitchers’ ERA’s are with him.
He’s under team control for a few more years (3, I think?), and although he’s already 30, he’s clearly got plenty of solid years ahead of him.
Since Hernandez’s option didn’t vest, do we bring him back with Corky as a backup until Devin’s ready? I haven’t even gotten to the Yasmanian Devil yet, either…seems like Hanigan’s a pretty marketable/expendable asset for us at a position lots of teams need. I
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting thought.
I would tend to doubt they are thinking along those lines, only because trading cheap, solid catchers is typically a bad idea. For one thing, there are the injury possibilities. If pitcher surpluses can disappear fast, so can catcher surpluses.
Plus, we love him and the team knows his value, but I’m not sure how much value he’d actually have on the trade market. I mean, I’m sure he’d bring something good back, but not necessarily more than one of the young pitchers. I think it’s more likely they re-sign Ramon and trade him in June if/when Devin is ready.
Then they could maybe do the same thing with Hanny in a couple years if/when Yasmani is ready.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Definitely not this offseason
Mesoraco just reached AAA and Yasmani’s had all of 33 PAs in rookie ball. They need to be right on the brink to push out Hanigan, who’s both productive and cost-controlled, especially considering he’s the younger of the two-headed catching duo. And given the nature of the position, you can’t count on any of these guys to stay healthy, nor Grandal, and to a lesser extent, Mesoraco, to stick at the position. I don’t think we’d ever want to be in a position where it’s Hernandez-Corky, as Hernandez is older, more expensive and possibly more vulnerable to injury. Part of the key to the catching situation was equitable playing time – which preserved both.
I think it’s an interesting question, though, whether Mesoraco or Grandal could hit and move around well enough to play LF.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 13, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
And I don't have much doubt Mesoraco could stick at the position
generally speaking, but perhaps one of those guys would be more useful to the Reds in LF?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 13, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
but isn't Devin a great defensive catcher?
At least last year? I haven’t read downthread yet so I guess it could be talked about later. But I’m stubborn and lazy and already started typing
Could be
I think he threw out around 40-42 percent of runners this year…and his release time to throw to 2nd base got quicker this year, if I recall.
I think Doug Gray has mentioned it/wrote about it this year…maybe i can try to track it down
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Well, there is this from John Stickels
where he mentions Devin’s improvement in throwing out baserunners but also how he is still prone to errors and passed-balls
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
This seems to be the consensus. Strong arm, good at throwing out runners
but still lets too many balls get by. I’m willing to be patient and assume that will get better this year, though.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
right
you cant teach a strong arm, but you can teach footwork and positioning.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just bringing it up
because why on earth would we want to switch an even half-decent defensive catcher with a good bat to left?
We wouldnt
Doesn’t seem like a good use of resources
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Oct 13, 2010 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Although him being able to field in LF better than Gomes...
…and still catch 4 days a week, could be very Yogi beneficial, and perhaps speed his arrival to THE SHOW.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
mez maybe given his numbers this year
but that depends completely on whether he’s able to sustain them reasonable enough to be useful in LF given the offensive expectations of the position. We’ve only seen these numbers one year of his career, so at this point you have to temper your expectations on where his final numbers will end up.
Interesting question, but I don’t see enough evidence he can keep his numbers up enough for LF….yet.
again
if he’s showing signs of promise as a halfway decent defensive catcher, why would we even want to switch him from one of the most valuable defensive positions to one of the least? I say leave him back there
was just kind of going along on the line of thought, not really advocating it
guess I was just saying that I’m not sure his offense will even be good enough for LF, moving him from catcher would be a huge mistake at this point.
but Hanigan could net something real purty
whereas Hernandez probably can’t. And hey, I’d like to keep Hanigan, too, but I wouldn’t be averse to trading him. There’s plenty of backup catcher chaff around.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
by Cy Schourek on Oct 13, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
My thoughts exactly.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
But would he net that much more now than in June?
I’d say the difference is probably negligible, and you might as well wait to see how Devin does and see what injuries you’re looking at.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I agree with that.
And much like what has been said before about others, packaging Hanny with one of our pitchers would look pretty damn nice to a lot of teams.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
True, but if you could choose between including Hanny or Alonso/END
wouldn’t you just include one of the expendable prospects?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Hanigan is the best and cheapest catcher in the system right now
Cheaper than Grandal for that matter, given the signing bonus. You only trade Hanigan if Mesoraco is tearing down that door – or if he’s an essential piece to filling a need in LF. Otherwise, just sit on the catching surplus – it’s going to appreciate in value. The one piece that probably won’t is Hernandez, who I’d expect to be serviceable this year, if healthy.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 13, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, this.
I just use different words to say it. Because he is so good and cheap, he’s valuable.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
by Cy Schourek on Oct 13, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I’d be ok with dealing him in June, too. Except I want that LFer in May.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
by Cy Schourek on Oct 13, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Hernandez is best if he plays every other day
a Hernandez/Corky duo is far from optimal. Hernandez and Hannigan had pretty much equal time this year, with Corky as the back up, Hernandez will go form playing 3-4 days a week to playing 5-6 days a week, and he will spend more time on the DL, and we may see a drop off in production.
I don’t think it is a coincidence that Hernandez had a great year while only playing half the time.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 13, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not like you're bolting him down
But you need to know that Mesoraco or Grandal are ready to go. Hanigan is your bird in the hand – and a key offensive/defensive piece of this year’s success. He posted a 2.2 WAR in a part-time role.
And I’m not sure there’s as big a difference in trade value between Hernandez and Hanigan as you’re suggesting, aside from salary considerations. Suitors could look Hanigan and see that he’s 30 and has never been a fulltime catcher in the majors. He has historically less power than Hernandez and has not been as “clutch” or an “All Star.” That kind of institutional thinking puts them in a similar class I think, so I’d keep the younger, cheaper, slightly more productive one.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 13, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point. That last part is what I was getting at about our valuing of Hanny
I just don’t think other teams would consider him as great an asset as we do, esp. compared to Ramon.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I'm just trying not to overrate Hanigan
he’s one of my favorite players of the past two years, I like dudes that can play D and get onbase. And all the moreso when they’re from cold weather states.
In my heart, I wouldn’t trade him for anything less than the undead ghost of 1993 Barry Bonds. But, I mean, if it was him or, say, DeJesus, I’d take DeJesus.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
by Cy Schourek on Oct 13, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
not only is he a blessing in the midst of a surplus, he’s CHEAP and controlled. Hernandez is neither, which is why I think Hanny’s got much, much more trade value.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
His age is more important than his being controlled though I think
He’s not being cost-controlled over peak years, while teams might look at the fact that he’s 30 and has never played more than 90 games (70 last year). If they’re looking for a long-term solution at catcher, they might balk at giving much up for Hanigan, who’s not proven as a MLB full-timer, nor on the right side of 30.
He definitely has trade value, but not so much that it’s worth breaking up an incredibly productive part of last year’s team without a ready replacement.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 13, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I concur.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, with Hanigan's batting adjustment going into 2010...
…he’d be more valuable at mid-season than now, as he will have had a chance to show that 2010 was not a fluke.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
but
He might end up showing that 2010 was a fluke.
And I kinda think it was.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't think he'll hit 300/400 again
But I wouldn’t call last year a fluke either. In the 400 MLB PAs before this year he hit 266/363, which is still pretty good. In (a lot) of AA and AAA time, he hit 300/405 and 294/373. Sometimes guys have a hard time getting promoted because they weren’t initially viewed as special prospects. Hanigan persevered and has shown that he can hit major league as well as minor league pitching. I can definitely see him settling in at 280/380 or thereabouts this year.
it's the power I wonder if he'll be able to maintain
I think that’s what surprised people. He’s always had a decent BA and OBP.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Hanigan's from DC
Not really cold weather, and not even a state.
by Brendanukkah on Oct 13, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
He was born in DC, but I’m pretty sure he grew up in New England. The internet says he went to high school in Massachusetts.
by the finest muffins on Oct 13, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting
But he apparently went to college in Florida.
The man is well-traveled.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
twss
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Massachusetts is also not even a state
/Commonwealth’d
by Brendanukkah on Oct 13, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The K rate didn't go drastically down. (It did from 2009, but it was almost identical to both 07 and 08)
His walk rate and BABIP were both right in line with his career norms as well.
The primary reason for his breakout is the power surge. There had been signs before this, as his ISOp had gradually gone up each year, but this year it exploded:
ISOp by year:
2007: .051
2008: .137
2009: .154
2010: .285
That’s just silly. To put it in perspective, Votto’s ISOp this year was .276, and the best END has ever done is .279.
So basically you’ve got a player with the raw power of Francisco, slightly better contact skills than Votto, and the plate discipline of a Stubbs or Bruce. Oh, and he plays solid defense at the most important position on the field.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Oh, and did I mention he just turned 22 in June? He could still add a fair bit of power.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i dont know about that
he had an incredible season and im excited he’s in our system, but there is a distinct possibility that this is a fluke season. guys with more power than Francisco, better contact skills than Votto, and the discipline of Stubbs/Bruce are Hall of Famers, especially if they are catchers. the odds of Meso being that guy are slim to zip. that dont mean he wont be good though.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, there was a bit of melodrama to my post, but still:
The BB rate has been consistently above average each of his years in the system. I’d say it’s a safe bet he’s a 9-10% walk rate guy going forward.
The K rates have jumped around a bit, but they are generally right at 20%, which is a bit better than Votto does in the bigs, and perfectly fine for a guy with his power.
Speaking of the power: I agree on the ‘fluky’ thing only with the power. It’s tough to maintain this level of raw power, but it’s also hard to fake it. And from all accounts, many of his homers are bombs, not wall scrapers. I’d say the power is legit.
So yeah, there’s no guarantee he’s a .280/.350/.560 guy in the majors. He could get injured, not adjust to the bigs, whatever. But it’s quite possible he will be, at least for a season or two. And that wouldn’t make him a HOFer. Doing it for a decade would.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
even better than that mauer character from the commercials?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Well, the worst he can be...
Is a .250 hitter.
What, me? Being negative? No. Never.
by Paul Householder on Oct 13, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
they just showed the potential Rays free agents, I didn’t know that Carlos Pena hit .196, lol. How is that possible?
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
shouldnt you be at school?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BOOM
roasted.
Shouldn’t I be at work? Ohhhhh wait…
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
i couldnt find one of my shoes this morning, so instead of looking for it i called in sick.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
If this is a true story, you are my new hero
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
ive been planning to take a mental health day some time for a few weeks now
but yeah, the shoe this morning was the catalyst.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
NICE
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
you only have one pair of shoes?
sounds like you need to work more, not less
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Chuck's are the only shoes i wear
so why should i buy more shoes?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
so, does that make you Charlie Taylor Scrabbles?
or Charlie Scrabbles Taylor?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i only have 2 pairs of shoes and a pair of flip flops
i wear my tennis shoes most of the time, and i have dress shoes i wear on dressy occasions, why do i need more shoes?
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 13, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
2 pairs of shoes = 1 pair more than you need
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
that's why i wear Chucks
they dress up real nice!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Green the man, I love this
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
when I got off work today...
I told my boss I wouldn’t be able to find my shoes tomorrow so I couldn’t work. He said ‘that happens’. Enjoy work tomorrow suckers!
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs.
by DocRam on Oct 14, 2010 7:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
PSAT test
dismissal following completion :)
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
paps smear test?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Nahh
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
pre-sat test
this guy makes crolfer seem like an old man
Nobody listens to Andrew
by nlt-andrew68 on Oct 13, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
not for me
my ACT score was laughably low, and didn’t even compare to my SAT score, which was pretty good.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 13, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I aced the ACT, and that let me pick my college.
I then left that college after less than a year cuz it turns out I hate school and taking tests.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I got a near perfect SAT score, but ended up turning down a full ride to a college (ok, it was Miami, but still)
Just cuz you’re smart doesn’t mean you aren’t stupid.
by Brendanukkah on Oct 13, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS
Joey Votto as my witness, I went to college on a Physics Engineering scholarship a year early.
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
Joey Votto as my witness
i had a psychology scholarship my freshman year.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 14, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Tough to decide which is funnier/more unbelievable here :)
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
Joey Votto as my witness, I can't believe we're having this conversation again.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
i started out as a psych major, i planned to be a therapist
didn’t seem bad, get a Psy.D and pretend to listen to people and make a decent amount of money.
Didn’t happen.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 15, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, most of the time he came to bat, he made an out.
Around 80% of the time, actually.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
still put up an OPS+ of 102
he will have work next year.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 13, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
didn't he have like a .340 OBP?
So, uh, THBBBBBBBBBBBBBT
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
He made outs about as often as Drew Stubbs, Chris Heisey, or Jonny Gomes
Hey, did you guys know that Stubbs outslugged Jonny Gomes? I thought that was neat. Since Gomes is looked at as someone with a good deal of power and all.
Drew Stubbs has light-tower power.
Jonny Gomes has light-pole power.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 13, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
ftfy
Jonny Gomes has light pole beer power.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 13, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
why yes I did know this
Did anyone else realize that Maloney’s K/BB ratio in AAA this year was almost 4/1? He had 104 K in 134 2/3 innings, with only 28 walks.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
impressive
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
i'm not surprised by this
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
I thought it was wierd that anyone could give the sleeper title to Maloney
when justin wouldn’t stop talking about him for the past two years or so.
lets just face it
i’m write, and all you other motha fuckas are wrong on Maloney.
"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 13, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Mothra fucka?
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He's going to be all right

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Maloney is definitely not all right.
by Brian B on Oct 14, 2010 7:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yup justin
yore all write buy me two
Nobody listens to Andrew
by nlt-andrew68 on Oct 13, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW, it turns out that our new intern is best friends with Reds prospect Mark Serrano.
The kid has shown a fabulous K:BB ratio thusfar.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
I wish I was clever enough to think of a funny/dirty joke here.
Instead I’ll just offer analysis/opinion that no one cares about :-)
The problem with him is his age. He was 24 this year and only really pitched in high-A. He needs to skip AA and have a decent to good season in Louisville to be considered anything more than filler.
I do like his GB rates too, though. (TWSS?)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
But can he hit the off speed stuff?
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
check out who just got rescued from the mine
In this photo released by the Government of Chile, miner Daniel Herrera, on the stretcher, is caressed by his mother after being rescued .
Nobody listens to Andrew
very nice
but we should all recognize the majesty of this tweet.
It is the disappointment of my year that the miners weren’t pulled out by rescuers in Planet of the Apes costumes.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
He didn't spend most of the year in AAA
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Oct 13, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The McPaper
has an article about the rash of postseason errors today. It’s a record-setting postseason, or near to it.
With three errors in Tuesday’s American League Division Series finale between the Texas Rangers and Tampa Bay Rays, a record 31 had been committed in the first round, leading to 16 unearned runs. That’s more than double the 13 errors and seven unearned runs rung up in the division series a year ago and approaching the record for any postseason round, according to Elias Sports Bureau. In 2003, 30 errors were committed in 18 division series games — three more games than were necessary this year.
Last year, there were 31 errors in the entire postseason, leading to 14 unearned runs.
Inexperience in the postseason is an apparent cause.
“It’s all part of baseball and being excited about being there — (maybe) a little tight,” said Philadelphia Phillies manager Charlie Manuel, whose team took advantage of seven Reds errors in a three-game sweep. Cincinnati, making its first playoff appearance since 1995, committed an NL-low 72 errors in the regular season.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
that's racist!

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo
by justin007000 on Oct 13, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
ceremony at City Hall today
The mayor officially congratulated the Reds on their season.
Hopefully, they didn’t offer to let him throw out the first pitch. ;-)
And MiLB.com is having fan voting awards. Today they’re taking votes for best hitter. Sappelt is on the ballot.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
lol
i remember ESPN making fun of him sooo much.
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzq5hw5KSXU
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
The best part was the ump "throwing him out"
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
Which would be better?
Our outfield with Heyward added to it
or
Hanley in the same line-up as Votto and playing in GABP.
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
And which would be more awesum: getting a text from Votto or getting to wear one of his old shirts?
Imagine if you could do both! Geez, Louise!
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 13, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I tell you what
If that happened, I wouldn’t be wearing pants
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Terrell Owens?
T.Ocho Show?
Ok Im watching you baby, and thinkin bout all the things that I can do baby, on top of the world, when I'm on top of you baby....spend the night with me and get popular baby"- Lil Wayne ft. Lil Twist "Popular
The chances of me being simultaneously raped by Jessica Alba and Stacey Dash are better than either of those things happening
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
I'm thinking of sponsoring Paul Janish's page at The Baseball Cube
Maybe with a link to Red Reporter and something like what Tim said the other day; “We love Janish more than Mrs. Janish does. Because we don’t pick up after him or remind him to take out the damn trash.”
Would that be out of line?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Out of line? From someone with a blog dedicated to all things Bubba Crosby?
Sounds positively in-line.
by Brendanukkah on Oct 13, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
well
RR isn’t my blog. Didn’t want to be presumptuous.
I like The Baseball Cube and use it a lot. I want to support them. Bubba Crosby’s page dropped from $35 to $15 this year, so I thought I’d sponsor another page.
I’m astonished that Joey Votto’s page doesn’t have a sponsor.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Does Johnny Narron sponsor Josh Hamilton's page?
by Brendanukkah on Oct 13, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I believe it's sponsored by Canada Dry
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
you've been rec'd
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 14, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
brilliant as always, B
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
one of the Fayplacements
was up early this morning.
One of the links includes an excerpt from behind the ESPN Insider paywall.
With Chapman potentially joining the starting rotation next season, the Reds may have a surplus of starters that could make for valuable trade bait. While several teams are likely to be on the prowl for upgrades at shortstop, Cincinnati may have the trade juice to land a player such as Stephen Drew. Juan Uribe could be one free agent option Jocketty chooses to look into, and if J.J. Hardy is non-tendered by the Minnesota Twins, he could be a fit with the Reds. Much of the available payroll space may be spent on retaining and adding to the relief corps, where free agents such as Jon Rauch, Brian Fuentes, J.J. Putz and Jason Frasor could team with Cordero to slam the door on opponents in high-leverage situations. Chapman’s role could dictate quite a bit, however, so until the Reds make a decision, their plans may remain incomplete.
Ugh. I hope they don’t spend big bucks on another relief pitcher.
As for Chapman…he’s a stud, but I don’t see him starting next year, at least not out of spring training. In Louisville last year, his ERA as a starter was. 4.11, vs. 2.40 as a reliever. And the problem seemed to be pacing himself to go the distance. I gotta think he needs another season in AAA if he’s going to be a starter.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I agree with you an all accounts.
don’t forget, Jose Arredondo is going to come back in 2011. He’s pretty good, if his arm is still attached and if the Reds don’t let him go Grant Balfour
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
He's pitching in instructional league right now
Ramsey said on his blog that his fastball hit 93. Good things, are coming.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Oct 14, 2010 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep. I'm really hopeful he could be a key addition next year.
Which makes signing an expensive FA reliever even more unnecessary.
You figure Ondrusek and Massett fill the RH set up guy roles, Bray and Rhodes (I assume they’ll bring him back) fill the LH roles, and CoCo is the closer.
That means you just need one more guy and a long man. Arredondo could be the 6th man, and a long man can be anyone (Fisher, LeCure, etc). Then you still have some depth with Burton, Valiquette, Smith, etc. I see no reason why they would want to spend any amount of money on a FA reliever.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
If Chapman could post a 4.0 ERA over 150 innings next year, I'd start him
Because that’s going to include, I’d bet, 50% crazy good starts and 50% walk-type explosions. Assuming he develops his changeup.
If only we had a Spanish-speaking change-up mentor on the payroll...
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 14, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If I had wings I wouldn't bump my ass when I hop
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
AZ Fall league update:
Sappelt pinch hit and went 0-1
Kris Negron went 1-2
Mesoraco did not play
Jeremy Horst gave up 2 runs in 2 innings of relief. He gave up 2 hits including a HR, and K-ed 1.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
WHY DIDN'T MESORACO PLAY?? IS HE HURT? WAS HE TRADED?
ANOTHER DRAFT PICK BUST!!!!!
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Yes, he has a broken mangina, so Walt traded him straight up for Hanley Ramirez.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Would it be out of line to yell "Negron Please!" if/when Kris gets a hit in Cincinnati?
"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000
Also, I can't find a link, but I saw Jocketty quoted on Cabrera's option:
It’s probably more than we want to exercise, we’ll try to find a happy medium…if not Janish would be our SS
On the one hand, I’m glad they don’t think he’s worth $4 mil. On the other hand, I’m sad they think he’s worth anything at all.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I think this is pretty positive
He’s not going to outright slam Cabrera. Saying he’s not worth the option and threatening to go with Janish is as much of a non-endorsement as you’re going to get from a GM.
I know. It's about as good as we can hope for at this point. It's just that the Cabrera-hater in me would rather see:
Are you kidding me? I can’t believe I signed that guy in the first place, he was useless! I might let him come back if he paid me, but no way I’m giving that guy another penny to play baseball.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Or-
“Uhg, what is Dustys hard-on for crappy players all about?”
by Eastwindquinn on Oct 14, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Or...
“I think we saw that Paul Janish is a real defensive talent, and he got a lot of key hits for us this year. We’re going to focus our efforts on making Paul Janish an expert bunter and better overall offensive player each year, while letting him develop defensively, as well. And if Janish improves defensively from where he’s at now – and there’s no reason to think he won’t continue to improve, especially at his young age – then we’ll have a gold glove shortstop who’s also a solid offensive contributor whom you can call upon to do the little things.
We’re very grateful to the contribution Orlando Cabrera has given this championship team, especially in the clubhouse. You could certainly argue that he’s one of the most valuable player resources for a young team getting their feet wet in the playoffs for the first time. I love Orlando, he’s a hellova guy, and I’d love to have him on this team next year.
Unfortunately, as a franchise looking to sustain success and growth in the current economic model, we are forced to operate on restraints to our resources, be those players under the team’s control, or by cold, hard cash. With our young core approaching their arbitration and free agency years, our limited financial resources don’t allow for the luxury of having a tremendous teammate like Orlando sitting the bench while we continue to develop our young core at the major league level, putting our best team on the field each day. Orlando’s amazing talents – both as a player, and as a teammate – would be stifled and somewhat wasted in a role position on our ballclub when he could provide that leadership to another team who more desperately need him as their field general to ‘take that next step,’ and allowing Orlando to entertain other offers where his talents might be more fully realized is not only what’s best for the the Reds and Orlando, but it is also what’s best for baseball. There’s a reason that seven teams have leaned on Orlando as their starting shortstop, and there’s a reason why he’s been in the playoffs six of the last seven years. While we’d be a better team in 2011 with Orlando Cabrera in our clubhouse and being ready to step in any time that Janish isn’t ready to go, that’s not in Orlando’s best interests, and we’re going to respect that. He’s over-qualified for a support role, and frankly deserves to command a higher salary than what a support position on a young championship team should garner. I hope some day, when he’s got several more championships under his belt, that Orlando will find a fitting role within this organization either as a player or in another capacity, because he certainly deserves that, and we’d be a better organization for it. Wouldn’t that be great? I hope we can make that happen."
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 14, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
tl;dr
Imaginary Jocketty is a wordy muthafucka.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
reading is dum
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 14, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That's great, Petey. Honest, diplomatic, smart.
Unfortunately, a statement like that would get printed precisely nowhere. It’s a bummer that all we get are empty sound bites.
by the finest muffins on Oct 14, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
OTOH
It might be a negotiating ploy.
Seems like they did this last year. Talked about going with Janish, but in the end, signed Cabrera.
They won the bidding war because the other teams wanted to move him to 2B, thinking he could no longer handle SS.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
hence the reason I no longer will use UZR as an acceptible defensive metric
which showed Cabrera to be significantly better than Janish this year. Blech.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 14, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a finer tool than TZ, but the sample sizes here aren't sufficient
Just looking at the raw numbers, Janish played 416 innings at short compared to Cabrera’s 1030. If you multiply Janish’s numbers to make the innings equal, he beats Orlando in POs (218 to 165) and DPs (82 to 60) by a good amount. Errors (10 to 11) and assists (295 to 300) are about the same. Nuances of UZR (batted ball type and location, which are rough) probably push Janish’s rating down.
Thank lord they don't want to exercise that crap.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I wonder if this means that they would give the job to Janish
or if it is one of those “As of right now, Janish is our shortstop” statements. I hope they at least kick the tires on options from around the league. You know, just to see if they can’t upgrade.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
no
Last year, I don’t think they had any intention of making Janish the starter. This year, I think they’ll settle for him to be the starter, but I sure hope they try to find an upgrade.
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I think what ken said is probably pretty accurate. It's mostly a veiled threat to Cabrera that they don't feel they HAVE to have him back
But I think Walt will look around. Still, I hope he spends most of his energy and money on LF.
Slyde, you didn’t chime in much in the discussion the last few days.. Do you agree or disagree that he’s more likely to find a significant and reasonably affordable upgrade at LF than SS?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
LF is definitely easier to find since you don't need the defense
I’m just not sold on the idea that you need to settle on Janish before the off-season even starts. If they get a good upgrade in LF, then Janish is fine, but I’d be searching for improvements in both spots if I’m Jocketty.
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I agree, but my fear in trying to upgrade both is that you end up marginally getting better
or not getting better at all, since you’re spreading resources too thin. I don’t want 2 bargain pickups that represent minimal upgrades over guys we have in house. (a scenario I think we all agree is highly possible) I’d rather spend all the money/prospects on one guy at one position who will make us markedly better.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I'm not saying upgrade both
I’m saying look at both spots.
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They certainly need to upgrade somewhere
LF or SS, just do something, guys.
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They acted pretty late if they really had no intention of starting Janish
I’m sure Orlando was on their radar all winter, but they didn’t pull the trigger until well after the Winter Meetings. Seems pretty risk if they weren’t prepared for at least the possibility of going with Janish.
Oh, I think they would have started Janish
but it wasn’t their goal. They were looking for anyone to replace him they could find on the cheap.
What I’m wondering now is whether or not they’d just accept him as the cheap option if they can’t find a significant upgrade or if they will take what they can get in place of him like last year.
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I wonder if Cozart affects their plans at all as well.
I know he wasn’t great this year, but his power improved to the point where if he could get the walks back up closer to where they were in 09, he’d be a pretty good player, possibly along the lines of .260/.330/.420. Not world-beating, but with his defense that’d make a pretty good SS.
I wonder if they are hoping he can succeed in AAA to start the year with a mid-season callup possible. If so, there’s no reason to spend huge on a SS. OTOH, they may be thinking along those same lines with Frazier in LF.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
330/420?
Janish this year was 338/385, good for a 95 OPS+
that slashline with that defense is really pretty darn above-average. If Cozart can put up a .750 OPS instead of Janish’s .723 – with the same defense – that’d be quite the positional strength.
I think if Janish can keep up last year’s line with his defense, the Reds can focus on LF. The real question is whether or not he can.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
by Cy Schourek on Oct 14, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it'd be great. I'm just not sure if Cozart can manage it.
It would involve maintaining the power (likely) while walking a fair bit more (questionable). Whereas with Janish, the walks and OBP are probably legit, but I wonder about the power.
Also, I’ve heard his defense is excellent, but not quite on the level of Janish, mainly because Janish has a stronger arm.
So basically Cozart could establish himself as a clear upgrade, or put himself in the same category as Janish. Either way, I’d rather have that than an aging veteran who’s a 50-50 chance of being better than either, but costs a couple million more.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
do you think Cabrera's methods are sound?
I don’t think Cabrera has a method…at all
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
by Cy Schourek on Oct 14, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I've included this in the Reposter
I think their commitment to Cabrera to the bitter end this season suggests there’s genuine interest in bringing him back at a reduced cost – which would almost certainly make him the starter. But passing on the option means they’ll definitely look elsewhere. I just don’t know where they rank Cabrera. Do they think he’ll be better than Janish next year. Or JJ Hardy?
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by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 14, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm hoping
it was Dusty who was committed to Cabrera, and Jocketty will take the dangerous toy away.
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It's the "happy medium" remark
that gives pause though. It’s entirely possible he’s fronting, and would simply low-ball Cabrera, but that seems about as likely as the alternative.
Also, I forgot O-Cab is Jolbert’s brother. I wonder J-Cab’s experience playing for the Reds – for the first time in the majors since ‘04 – played any role at all in Cabrera’s signing.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 14, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

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