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Yet Another Season Where The Reds Are Out of It By Columbus Day. Reds lose game 2-0, series 3-0.

Ain't too much to rake, anyway, in the fall. (Photo by Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images)



Thus endeth the season.

Joe Nuxhall Memorial Honorary Star of the Game

Cole Hamels.  Yet another Phillies starter twirled a gem against us.  Hamels pitched a complete game shutout, his first in the postseason.  He allowed only five hits, walked none, and struck out nine.  Honorable mentions go to Ryan Howard, Carlos Ruiz, and Homer Bailey.

Key Plays

  • In the first inning, Placido Polanco hit a one out single off of Johnny Cueto.  One out later, Ryan Howard also singled and Polanco moved to third on the play, totally stealing Cincinnati's move.  It's okay; they weren't using it.  Jayson Werth then hit a ground ball right to Orlando Cabrera.  Cabrera seemed to have reinjured his side in Game 2 and was thought to miss the rest of the series.  He deemed himself fit to play this afternoon, but on this instance, threw the ball high and wide of first base, pulling Joey Votto off the bag and allowing Polanco to score.  Phillies lead, 1-0.
  • Drew Stubbs singled to lead off the Reds half of the first inning.  Brandon Phillips then hit a deep drive to center, but Shane Victorino made a nice running, over the shoulder catch.  Joey Votto then grounded out to the pitcher and Scott Rolen struck out looking.
  • In the fifth inning, with two outs, Chase Utley hit a deep fly ball to center field.  Drew Stubbs tracked it back to the wall, and leapt, hoping to bring it back in the yard and rob that cheater Chutley of a home run.  Instead, in a move that will have Dusty Baker flashing back to the Steve Bartman game, a Cincinnati fan tried to catch the ball with their glove, knocking it away from Stubbs.  The umpires reviewed the play, but it was clearly a home run.  Still, if there was an emblematic play that signaled that Cincinnati is not quite ready for the postseason, that was it.  Phillies lead, 2-0.
  • The Reds were unable to generate much offense at all against Cole Hamels, which is not entirely surprising.  Down to their final chance in the ninth inning, Brandon Phillips got the region's hopes raised with a sharply hit ball that went under the glove of Placido Polanco for a leadoff single.  Joey Votto came to the plate, hoping to shake off a disappointing series and act the way MVPs do.  Instead, he grounded into a soul-crushing double play.  Scott Rolen then struck out for the billionth time and the season was over.

 20101010_phillies_reds_0_68_lbig__medium

via www.fangraphs.com


Star-divide

Other Notes

  • The Phillies have never swept a playoff opponent before.
  • NL Central teams have lost 15 of their last 16 playoff games.  The Reds are 0-6 in their last six playoff games.
  • The Reds were shut out 15 times in 165 games, or once every eleven games.  Four of those shutouts were at the hands of the Phillies, including four of the last five games the teams played.
  • Cole Hamels is 7-0 in 8 career games against the Reds.  He has an ERA of 0.91 against them.
  • Cole Hamels and Chase Utley sound like the names of MLS players.  Carlos Ruiz was an MLS player.
  • Francisco Cordero has still never played in the postseason.
  • Chase Utley is the all-time Phillies home run leader in the playoffs, with 10.  He moved out of a tie with Jayson Werth with his dinger in the fifth.
  • The Reds committed seven errors in the three game series.  Only seven of the 13 runs allowed by the Reds pitchers in the series were earned, and four of those belonged to Edinson Volquez.
  • The crowd of 44,599 was the largest in Great American Ball Park history.

 


 

Final - 10.10.2010 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 RHE
Philadelphia Phillies 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2 8 1
Cincinnati Reds 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 2
WP: Cole Hamels (1 - 0)
LP: Johnny Cueto (0 - 1)

Complete Coverage >



Comment 478 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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There's no crying in baseball.

But next year, this team is gonna win 100 games.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:09 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Wow, that's crazy optimism

I would guess, and it’s because I’m a prick, that the team regresses a bit, has some key players injured for a significant period of time, and hopefully has a chance to return to October. Baseball’s regular season is about tons of talent and luck. The reds finally have some talent, but I doubt they get that lucky next year.

Still, with this pitching staff and a right trade or two, we could be looking at a nice 5-6 years of competitive Septembers. And, having lived through the 90’s and then through this last decade, I would glad for it

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm assuming we have a real left fielder and shortstop next year.

I think the playoff roster we had this year, if it was pretty much the 25 man next year w/ replacements for Gomes and Cabrera, is a good team.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, but that's a big assumption

I don’t think we have either the SS or the LF currently in the system, though we do have in house upgrades

by kcgard2 on Oct 11, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The lack of hitting didn't really surprise me

That’s not unusual in the postseason.

But those errors…just brutal. BP had 2 in one game errors, when he only had 3 all season.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Hopefully this season will not be like Bengals 2005

please please General Manager go out and get some help for next year. Swap out Coco for someone cheaper and better, drop Gomes for someone studlier, and maybe think about the post-Rolen era. Oh yeah and let Tubby go.

by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 11, 2010 12:13 AM EDT reply actions  

3 of those are possible, 1-2 are probable, one ain't gonna happen.

No way Coco can be traded, his contract is an albatross.

I don’t think Walt is going to think about the post-Rolen era.

I’m guessing Tubby will go.

I’m hoping Gomes will go, or will serve a reduced role next season.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really hope

they don’t keep Cabrera. Dusty can’t be trusted with him. He needs to go the way Taveras, Patterson, etc.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Despite the NL Central crown, we're still pretty much a middle-of-the-pack team.

Every team that isn’t built like the Phillies or rebuilt like the Pirates is going to have one or two of those players. Every year.

Hell, even the Yankees have ’em.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Reds had a chance to trade for Matt Holliday last year.

They’ll have a chance to drop big dollars on Crawford this year if they really want to, not that they will. They could have probably traded for Stephen Drew and could have definitely gone after J.J. Hardy.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

And those players might have made the Reds younger and better.

But spending the resources to acquire him would have (will?) lead to deficiencies in other areas.

For example, right now I’m thinking that Rolen needs some relief for 2011 (especially August, September and October of 2011). Let’s suppose that Walt is thinking along those lines as well- Are we gonna get an up-and-coming prospect or are we gonna get some stop-gap Joe Randa type? Well, seeing that getting Rolen a caddy is probably lower on the list of priorities than bringing in a bigger better bat to play left field and hit Phillie pitching, the answer to that prospect/Randa question depends on how much we spend on not-Carl Crawford, right?

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was coming off at least two pretty mediocre seasons and the Brewers didn't want to trade him within the division

This team won their division by 6 games (or more?) A good SS wouldn’t have helped that much

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who knows with that in the division stuff and Jocko and DM probably being pretty competitive, but the price was starting pitching, not of the #5 variety or a CF. I know people love to hate on Gomez, but he is an enormous talent. There’s a good chance not having the smarts to work with those skills will be the story of his career, but I don’t think it was a bad gamble.

by ol Pete on Oct 11, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Depending on who Walt trades away this offseason,

both END and Frazier could be fill-in type guys for league minimum and probably do OK.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hope that they could match what Cairo offered?

That’s not really hoping for that much.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cairo had a pretty good year

I’m afraid they’ll re-sign him.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

He OPSed .763 with meh defense. I think either of those prospects could match that.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

me, too

But…veteran presence. Also, there’s a widespread belief that veterans like Cairo are much better pinch-hitting off the bench than youngsters, who are prone to losing their timing when used as bench players.

Personally, I don’t mind Cairo as a utility player, but I don’t think he’s worth the roster spot. However, I’m afraid Jocketty won’t agree.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

So begins my winter long program to pick up Mark Teahen.

Injured last year.
Probably around $4
can play OF (well, played RF) probably as well as Gomes.
Can be a real 3b if Rolen goes down.
Has a funny last name, and I really, really like that.

Teahen. mum-mum… Teahen

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

add a “million” in there wherever you deem appropriated

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

he's been injured the past million years?

j/k. I’m actually very, very, for this idea. VERY for this idea.

As much as I’d like Frazier/END, I’d prefer to have a dude like Teahen. He could be Marte or he could be McGeHee. It’s worth it to find out.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

70 games at third 70 in the outfield

(some spelling Rolen, some starting) Plus you get the lefty/righty platoony thingy going on.

Speaking of the Brewers, they have a couple nice extra outfielders laying around. We have pitchers to trade, but I think they would have to throw something extra back to the Reds unless they offered someone solid.

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

who are the outfielders you speak of?

the only one I can think of is Cain, and I don’t think he’s the droids we’re looking for.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know...

I just looked over there roster and really don’t know why I believed that to be true.
I do remember thinking Gomez was okay, but I sure don’t know what I saw.

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

posting mid edit is for the birds.

“over the roster” changed from “over there at the roster”.
oh wells

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I always kind of thought Teahen was going to turn out to be a stud.

He’s had a rough last couple of years, but I’d be cool with him.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

but

He’d have to worry if we decided to sacrifice chickens again!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

As long as he doesn't turn in to the next Tea-Virus

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Oct 11, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

i understand that we will have some weak spots on the 25 man roster

but guys fast outfielders who can’t get on base, and veterans who were over-rated in their prime, are just bad for Dusty.

Chris Valika, isn’t that good, but he would have been better to keep around because Dusty wouldn’t play him every day.

And failed prospects like Taveras and Patterson are his wet dream, he thinks they are always just one swing away from ending their 5 year slump.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

and i gotta think Walt believes in Ocab

it was ultimately Walt’s decision as to whether it was Cabrera’s or Janish’s start, since it was his decision to keep Cabrera on the roster.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure Dusty had a say in it

I sure hope you’re wrong. The idea of Cabrera being re-signed is more depressing than being swept out of the playoffs.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

To me, the same can be said of re-signing Gomes.

They’ve both got to go. They’re replacement or sub-replacement bats with sub-replacement defense.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not thrilled about Gomes, either

Fun as he is as a person, as a player…ugh.

I like defense, even in left field. And if your glove sucks, you better hit like Adam Dunn.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

The left fielder with a little curl

There was a little girl,
     Who had a little curl,
 Right in the middle of her forehead.
     When she was good,
     She was very good indeed,
 But when she was bad she was horrid.

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gomes

Gomes is a fine #4 or #5 outfielder. That’s it.

He’s a guy I’d love to have around the clubhouse, I think he gets people to play loose. If they can get someone to put in front of him, great.

by bobestes on Oct 11, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure Gomes is an option that they have to pick up

I would like it if they would not, but….May memories live a long time in october

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he's cool with being a 4th OF/PH specialist, too

which is exactly what he should be doing. And if he wants to be more, I’m sure the Reds could find a taker.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this.

Cabrera cannot OPS higher than .700. He’s a black hole. He doesn’t walk and he doesn’t make good contact. He makes a bunch of shitty contact and he can’t field a lick anymore. Walt has to recognize this and get rid of him.

Same can be said of Gomes. He can hit, occasionally, but seems to have been figured out in a big way. He hasn’t been productive since May. He needs to go – I’d even replace him with Sappelt at this point.

Walt needs to make a move to bring in a solid 3B prospect too. Trade Francisco if you have to and package a pitcher or two for a legitimate 3B of the future, because Rolen’s days are numbered.

Gomes and Cabrera are the only two real weaknesses on this team right now. Every single other player is average or above average.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

"He makes a bunch of shitty contact."

This is what I thought in every one of Cabrera’s ABs in this series.

Problem is, he was (I think) better than league average after he came back in August and then he cemented his ‘gamer’ status by insisting that he play today and Utley’s home run kept the loss of Game 3 from being able to put on his first inning error.

My Magic 8 Ball is telling me:

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he won't be.

But he’s a Gold Glove-d veteran and he was on the 2010 Reds and the 2010 Reds won and went to the playoffs (Cabrera knows how toblahblahblah) and if Walt is able to get us a left fielder he won’t be run out of town for bringing back Cabrera.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

he might have been good as a sort of leader, sure

but hopefully whatever he did rubbed off on Bruce, Votto, etc.

There’s no talk of bringing Edmonds back, even if he was a huge help to Bruce. Cabrera should be thought of the same way. Even the whole “spanish speaking” thing could be solved with, say, Hanley.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Since the Mets seem to be in rebuilding mode, I would love for Walt to make a run at Reyes.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

like.

I believe I even fanposted about it a few months back.

They’re in a position where one of their big dollar boys has to go, and it won’t be David Wright, and Beltran won’t net them any return. Reyes is the one thing they’ve got that can cut their payroll AND net them a good young pitcher.

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 11, 2010 9:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He's a FA, no?

but yeah, as far as trades, it will suck if one of Cueto, Volquez, or Bailey gets traded. However, one of those guys +Alonso+END+Maloney= Matt Kemp, right?

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come.

by chesirecat on Oct 11, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could be wrong, but I think there’s a team option year that I’d think would be picked up.

by ol Pete on Oct 11, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes

There’s an $11 million option. Mets are kind of in limbo, with the firings and all, but they are expected to pick up that option.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

also

There’s talk of negotiating an extension as well.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure they will, but I could see them trading him after they pick it up.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is such a fantastic idea that we shoudl petition Walt for it

and sign our own contracts to buy a number of tickets per season to help pay for that free-swinging sparkplug of a stud.

“Hey, Orlando, Reyes is providing ‘veteran leadership’ by, you know, hitting the baseball hard”

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

he said

this might be his last game in the postseason.

I’m hoping that means he’s not expecting to be a Red next year.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rolen said the same thing

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

reminds of what Slyde said

Enjoy the Reds postseason run, because there’s no guarantee they’ll get another chance next year.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

when you are in your mid-30s

it is very true.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

As opposed to?

Who gets a guarantee? The way I look at it, the Reds’ chances in the NL-Central are as good as anybody else’s and better than most. The Whiny Little Birds are on a downslide. The Astros might contend. Brewers, Cubs, and Pirates? Are you kidding?

by Don, the Rebel without a Blog on Oct 11, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Astros won't contend

they pulled a 2007 Reds.

Cubs are really the only other team I am worried about, simply because they have the most money to spend their ways out of mistakes. I will really worry about the Cubs when the Rickets buy a clue and realize Jim Hendry is terrible at his job, and quite frankly i could do a better job for just $200,000 a year.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cardinals are definitely going to increase their payroll too.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

fear the Cards

they have three stud starting pitchers. a HOF 1B. a top tier LF. A Jay Bruce-ish talent in RF.

did i mention i was glad they traded ryan ludwick?

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is the Jay Bruce-ish talent in RF? Jon Jay?

by ol Pete on Oct 11, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

lemme help

here you go!

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 12, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

no chance they see 600 IP from Wainwright, Carp, and Garcia.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds colored glasses...

you are sure that all our young pitching is going to mature, though

by kcgard2 on Oct 11, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

the group of Wood, Leake, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, and Volquez are adequte now

with those 6 talents you gotta think at least one will step up and be a top of the staff ace.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like you say, the Cubs have cash. Another thing is that even when they were supposed to have a terrible farm system, they’ve had some useful players come up and even one potential star in Starlin Castro. Now their teams keep winning an awful lot and prospect lists are sprinkled with Cubs players.

by ol Pete on Oct 11, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

What Cubs prospects are supposed to be so great?

Josh Vitters and the other middle infielder guy are the only two, and Vitters is way, way overrated.

They have exactly zero pitchers who can come and contribute next year, and they are on the hook for a ton of money to increasingly useless players.

They’ll have to increase payroll even beyond what it got to this year for them to contend.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

WHAT ABOUT THEIR SUPER AWESOME 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK!!?!?!?

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

What’s the name of the guy who came up at the end of this year, Coleman? He might be in the rotation. Cruise over to minorleagueball and look at some of the top 20 lists for leagues. There are Cubs sprinkled throughout. I don’t think they’ve gotten to AAA levels yet, but they have pitchers at AA. There’s a SS they think will push Castro to 2nd base, a top outfield prospect and a pitcher. Lee, Jackson and McNutt are what pop into my head but one or more are probably wrong.

Don’t get me wrong. I’d love for the Cubs to be a fireball of failure.

by ol Pete on Oct 11, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Having players in the top 20 for individual leagues is no great shakes.

Since there are so many leagues, that makes for a lot of top 20 lists.

I’d say at this point they only have 2 top-100 guys. Vitters and the middle infield guy who will push Castro to second. But he’s still at least a year away.

They could and should be good in 2012, but not next year.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cards aren't on a downside. Penny could be healthy the entirety of next season

and with Westbrook give them 5 decent starters. their bullpen is good and they will find a RF on the scrap heap. They will be in contention next September.

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

who's their 2b, SS, CF?

they have more holes then the Reds. More studs, but more holes, too.

Itll be an interesting race the next few years.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thinking Rasmus won't be back?

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

More like the left side of the IF

Skip has been a decent 2B. But they’ve had a black at hole at third for a while, and Brendan Ryan took a big step back this year.

They can contend with servicable, 90 OPS+ guys because they have two or three stars. Should be interesting to see how they patch those holes this winter.

by ken on Oct 11, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a big fan of Skippy

his slugging percentage has been dropping like a stone since 2007, and his OBP took a huge hit this, and the guy is 30. According to fangraphs his defense at second is god awful, so he is a slightly below average hitting weak defensive second baseman. For what it is worth Skippy had a negative WAR. Honestly if my choice was between Valiakia or Skippy I’d go with Valiaka.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comes down to whether he had a bad year or is getting old fast

I can see it either way. BB-ref doesn’t hate his defense as much but it’s still not rated well, fwiw.

by ken on Oct 12, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt Rasmus is gonna stick around

they can get a haul for him, and, well, he doesn’t want to be there. If its him or LaRussa, my guess is they’d take LaRussa, for some sick reason.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 12, 2010 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like their bullpen is pretty rocky.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Franklin is OLD.

Reyes and Miller are too, but they’re eminently replaceable.

What happened to Motte? did he get injured or something?

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he did.

Motte and Maclellan (sp?) both have some issues throwing strikes.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree they aren't on a downslide, but they do have some serious issues

First, they need to fill 2 rotation spots, and money spent on Westbrook/Penny is money that can’t be spent elsewhere.

They already have a scrap heap RFer, but they also need a decent SS, 2B,and there are questions at 3B as well.

Oh, and they’ll need a backup catcher, and some more bullpen pieces.

Not that they can’t/won’t be good, but there’s a lot of holes to be filled (TWSS)

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Penny is a free agent.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

OCab and Rolen were essentially the same hitter in the second half

Not good……not good.

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see them find a real SS from somewhere

I remember enjoying Concepcion and Larkin and I had no idea how hard it would be to find a really good SS.

If they cannot, then I’m fine with .650 OBP Janish playing GG defense next season.

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd be fine with a .650 OBP too ;-)

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oops.

I think what I was replying to was deleted. Hi RR.

by Quisling on Oct 11, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

hi Quisling!

yeah, i deleted the comment. sorry this is your first experience here. honestly, it’s not a common occurrence. that poster had been trolling for a few days now and that was the final straw.

good to have you around! help yourself to anything in the fridge.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 11, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I had a way better ban message

“Time for you to take to your talents to McCovey Chronicles or Talking Chop.”

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly 3.5 hours later, impressive!

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, how 'bout that?!

I submitted it, and then later picked up my phone and it said “Bad Request.” So I submitted it again.

by Brian B on Oct 11, 2010 6:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I figured it was a glitch in RR mobile :)

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 12, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

BUT RR MOBILE IS PERFECT AND DOESN'T NEED ANY WORK AT ALL!

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 12, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey there,

thats sure an interesting handle you got.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well it was a fun

Thanks everybody for a good season. I hope we don’t have to wait another 15 years for a post-season game. I finally got to see Chapman pitch live and he is truly the master and possessor of the universe. I only regret not giving a final standing ovation for the Reds, I was too busy trying to beat traffic. Go Reds!!!

by LyotardFactory on Oct 11, 2010 12:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Along those lines, how cool is it that the last person we saw pitch this year was Aroldis Chapman?

And how cool was Homer Bailey tonight? It would have been awesome if Joey had hit a home run or something as a parting image, but I’ll take what we got.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Arroyo, Cueto and Bailey pitched very well this week.

I think BP’s Henderson-esque home run in G2 might be the most fun I had all week.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

As TBS might say, "This guy is going to be a big part of the Reds' future."

But honestly, I was nervous when he pitched in Game 1. I keep saying/typing this so maybe I should look at the pay-by-play ‘script’ to be sure about it but I think he got taken to or near the warning track twice in three innings of work.

 ..He did strike out more Phillies than Cueto and Volquez combined.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hate you Dusty

Postgame quote:

Q. Dusty, for a team that was so solid defensively this year, how do you explain the problems you guys had catching it and throwing it in the series?
DUSTY BAKER: I don’t know. I can’t explain it. You know, if I could explain it, it wouldn’t happen, and it wouldn’t happen again.
I guess it was just baseball. That’s all I can say.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

The quote?

No that was just now after this game. I got the official transcript emailed to me…

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

No it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with

the fact that Orlando Cabrera shouldn’t have been on the field…..and Scott Rolen is probably playing hurt, too. That’s 3 (or 4?) errors right there.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I sorta hope Rolen was hurt

Because otherwise, he looked ooooooold.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

They've said bad back, right?

But of course that’s what they say when you’re oooooold.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why would you hate for that?

Alternative: “My players suck and they won’t listen to me when i tell them not to make errors.”

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's just an idiotic non-answer

Rather than owning up to some very real issues. Dusty could have said “Well, I probably shouldn’t have played Orlando. He wasn’t 100 percent, but he’s a gamer who has provided veteran leadership all season, and I felt we needed that presence in the lineup.”

When does Dusty admit he was wrong?

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is true.

His half-non-answers drive me crazy but I’m not sure that if were held accountable (by himself of the traditional Cincinnati media) it would make much of a difference. Perhaps we would feel better but Dusty wold lose a lot of that ‘good guy that just rolls with the punches’ persona and that, by most accounts, is strangely considered to be one of his greatest strengths.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'll rec that

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely disagree

You can be honest with the press. You don’t have to tell them everything, but telling them (and your fans) nothing is foolish.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

But anyways

I love this team, and hopeful that Jocketty will make the proper moves to improve them in the off-season. The offense HAS to be upgraded.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:32 AM EDT reply actions  

It's really strange that we were one of the top offenses in the NL

It rarely felt like it. I kind of want a top of the line ace. The playoffs this season are demonstrating the value of those guys.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, looking forward...

Cueto, Bailey, Wood, Arroyo were all very good this post season. Perhaps Leake improves and can be an effective starter next year. Volquez, as he distances himself from his Tommy John surgery, is pretty good too.

Losing this series wasn’t pitching’s fault. They gave up 7 earned runs in 3 games.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I don't think a top ace is really needed

That would be a luxury…..upgrades at SS, LF, 3B depth and some bullpen help (Rhodes can’t be expected to duplicate, and Chappy is probably in the rotation) is more important.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

thats a lot of needs!

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, there are a lot of holes on this team

I just hope Jocketty realizes that and works hard to improve them in the off-season, rather than rewarding guys for what are perceived as good seasons and keeping the status quo.

Gomes is not a playoff-caliber OF. Cabrera is not a playoff-caliber SS. Rolen can still be playoff-caliber, but he needs a LOT of rest next season. He should take at least a game or two off each week to keep his body fresher.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah there must have been some shit offense in the NL

Because I never once watched the Reds this year and thought “Wow, we have a great offense.”

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

i said in July

Cliff Lee takes the Reds transforms the Reds from a division winner to a team that has a serious shot at the World Series.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is true

But I also think one of our pitchers will emerge as an ace next season.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, for Louisville

In 2012, hopefully, he will be the ace I’m counting on.

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bailey, Volquez and Cueto all have varying ace potential.

Let’s see what happens.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Volquez and Cueto

Tim has never believed in Homer and still does not

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Bailey could surprise us

Either as a frontline starter or in the pen.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

My favorite moment of last night was Homer striking out Jayson Werth

Werth looked like Johnny in Karate Kid when the first point was scored against him. (“What the fuck was that?!”)

Bailey’s expression was stoic. Loved it. Of all the innings I’ve seen Homer pitch, I was most impressed by last night. His motion looked controlled and repeatable for once. Good for him.

I still say trade him. Or, as timb said, try him as closer if he’s interested in that.

by Brian B on Oct 11, 2010 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think Bailey would make a fantastic closer

Partly because mentally, I just think he’s better suited for those situations. He seems like a pretty intense guy.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

NYC rightly points out that his first inning ERA is terrible

but I think last night is one (and basically only one) which establishes that is a mental problem and not a physical one and one which he probably can overcome

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

i say trade Volquez and keep Homer in the rotation.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

i say justin just vottosmashed one into the river.

I’m totally on board.

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 11, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind that.

How about finding out whichever would net a higher return and do that? I wonder who that would be right now.

by Brian B on Oct 11, 2010 6:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Cueto doesnt have ace potential anymore

his K/9 was waaaaaaay down this season.

Homer looked badass in relief last night vs the almighty phillies, however.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once again, trying to use stats you don't understand.

First, his K/9 was almost identical to last year. It was way down from 2008, but so are his walks. His K/BB ratio was the best of his career in 2010.

I’m not saying he’s an ace, but if he’s not it’s not because of the K/9.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

well done, sheriff

i didnt look up his stats from last season, just went on visual memory. guess his K decline wasnt as severe as i anticipated.

how many aces the past two decades had a K/9 of 6.7, by the way? help me understand and share your statistical knowledge…

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're missing the point. It's all about K/BB.

I know Greg Maddux is a completely different pitcher from Cueto, but his K/9 was typically between 5 and 7. But he located well and never walked anyone.

I feel like Johnny is learning how to locate well and getting guys to swing at his pitch, which results in weaker contact. His groundball rate is climbing, his BABIP is dropping….

I don’t think he’ll ever be a true #1, but it’s mainly because of pitch conservation and walks. If he could get the walk rate down below 2 per 9IP, he could be at ace level. (but that’s a big if)

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

And to answer your question about aces, here are some examples with their career K/9 rates

Tom Seaver: 6.85
Chris Carpenter: 6.84
Roy Halladay: 6.71
Andy Pettite: 6.63

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

K/9 under 6.7

how about this sexy creature
This lovely lassie
This sugarbritches had a couple nice years with the chisox with a sub 5

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

that is true

Power pitching is a key to winning in the postseason.

But I think the Reds can grow their own. They haven’t given up on Chapman starting, have they?

And maybe Bailey will develop into the pitcher we hoped he’d be. He’s only 24.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

he was enjoying himself

it was a lot of fun to watch those 6 outs.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cueto had some ace-osity

I really like him in big games. He gets pumped up, and it shows.

Plus, his followthrough just looks really badass

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Phillie fan here

stopping by to say just because we won,doesn’t mean it couldn’t have gone either way. I was literally pacing every game, even when we were up. Tonight in the ninth I kept saying to myself,this team is too f-ing good for them not to score and tie or go ahead. You have a heck of a ball club there, and I look forward to seeing you guys next year for some more great baseball. Dust Baker is the man…would love to hang out with him,drink some beers,and talk about baseball. He seems like that kind of guy. Congrats Reds on a great year.

by JoeBuckSUCKS on Oct 11, 2010 12:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the kind words

And I agree about Dusty. He seems like a great guy…..too bad he’s a lousy in-game manager…:/

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

He didn't make any major tactical errors, IMO.

Doesn’t make a difference when guys are going 0-fer and playing shitty defense.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not too many tactical errors in THIS series, perhaps

But starting Cabrera in this game was a critical mistake. Writing Gomes name in the lineup for two games, and in the No. 5 hole, was a critical mistake.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't read any of the game threads

Any word on why Bruce was batting seventh? Oh, and it should have been Other Note’d that Bruce was the only Red to reach base in all three games.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

that is a nice thing to take away from this game

it seems Bruce is figuring out how to not be a black hole against lefties.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Take that away from the last 2 months.

Jay Bruce is good at baseball, and should probably be batting very close to Joey Votto.

I’d like to see: Stubbs, BP, Votto, Bruce, LF, Rolen, Hernanigans, Janish next year

with Stubbs moving around depending on his power/OBP abilities at the given moment

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

i would like the Reds to lock down both Bruce and Votto.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think 2009 Votto would be cool.

Except he’s nothing like Votto. He’s a pull hitter and a flyball hitter who won’t ever have a high BABIP or great gap power. He was all feast and no famine in the last 3 months, but he only had 1 double in the period in which he hit like 12 homers. That’s kinda fluky, but I still think he’s awesome now that he’s healthy.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, this.

oh, and his defense is snacks whereas Vottos is decent.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stubbs is better in 6 than at 1

I’d like to get a high OBP, good defense, left fielder. I realize Carl Crawford is nigh-impossible, but there are enough others out there.

Stubb’s power means we don’t need to see it out of LF. But we need an OBP machine to make up for Stubb’s deficincies in that department.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Probably because of the lefty Hamels being on the mound

which is another stupid Dusty decision

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I asked the same question in a game thread.

The answers were basically “lackluster numbers against Hamels,” “because he’s left-handed,” and “Dusty’d.”

by the finest muffins on Oct 11, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, maybe not

Cabrera’s error in the FIRST inning puts the Reds down 1-0. A deflating way to start the game, and coming off Friday’s disaster, it could have affected the players’ mental state and approach. Getting off to a good start I think was critical.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Phils are the class of baseball

although I’m cheering for the Rangers and Giants at this point as their fans have suffered a long long long time (longer than Bengals fans, if you can believe it!)

p.s. We still are gonna hate Utley forever for faking that HBP.

p.p.s. Don’t they dare lose to Payrod and the Bankees if that’s the matchup again.

by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 11, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

/dusty'd

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 12, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I met some legitimately friendly Phillies fans at the bar tonight

So thanks for continuing in that vein.

I’m actually pretty proud of how we handled the Phillies. We kept the offense in check very well, I thought. We just ran into two great pitchers who pitched great games, and our defense decided to just not show up. It was a much closer series than the final results indicated. Your team is really impressive though.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

thanks you've been decent all along

I’m stil pretty sad about this series, it was difficult to watch, but maybe you’re right and we’ll get to see round two next year

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dusty Baker is the George Bush of managers

cool dude, would love to hang out with him. A lifer in his profession and generally well-respected.

That said, he puts himself in a position to lean on untrustworthy people and gets burned by them. He gets bad advice and has a lot of faith in people anyone could tell you are Voldemorts and gets a lot of egg on his face because of that.

U.S. Grant – President Edition, would also come to mind.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

interesting thought

whenever i hear him mention o-cab’s virtues i just think of trickle down economics. hard to really prove its bullshit, and it seems to make so much sense, but when you look at the results, well . . .

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand

by saboscork on Oct 11, 2010 7:01 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

which presidents are the following?

good lord.

last 15 Reds managers
Baker
Mackanin
Narron
Miley
Boone
McKeon
Knight
Johnson
Perez
Pinella
Helms
Rose
Rapp
Nixon
McNamara

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rose=Clinton

McKeon=LBJ

Mackinin=Ford

Hey, SIS this shit!

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

miley = truman

2nd fiddle, had to take over in a pinch, not thought too well of until we had to put up with his successors. Then he looked pretty good.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 12, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

probably akin to all the Presidents from Ohio with beards.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

wha?

which ones were gay?
I always wondered about that Taft fella.

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah, he just had a big bathtub.

but not big enough.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 12, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like I tweeted, I won't let 3 games of disappointment outweigh 6 months of excitement

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 12:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Having said that

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 12:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Damn mobile

Was gonna say this is the offseason where Walt proves his worth.

He’s done pretty well so far, mainly by holding on to the young talent, but with a few trade chips and very clear needs, this will decide whether we get to see this again next year or if we have to wait forever again for the playoffs

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 12:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

yeah I have to agree there

the 2010 offseason is where you find out if the Reds are serious about winning and whether they’ve got the right braintrust to do it.

As good as the offense was this year, they had a lot of nights of nothing but crickets chirping. As good as the pitching was this year, they don’t yet have an “ace”. And the bullpen was pretty good but Coco is about as reliable as a raindance. So there’s lots to improve. Not to mention the farm system has provided some chips to work with.

by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 11, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed with you and NYC

Lots of raw material for some fun moves

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

But....

Trading young talent for proven outfield veterans seems very Bowdenesque.

by Jack Armstrong started an All Star Game on Oct 11, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

kick the tires on what END, Yonder and an arm will get ya

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

you'll stop there?

oh. nevermind.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

for the first time in a long time

the reds stayed in a playoff chase, and won. They shit the bed in August of 2002, July of 2004, and August/September of 2006. I was almost conditioned to be happy that they were within striking distance at the All-Star Break.

With as much as I hate the team they were fighting with until that team lost all ability to win, to say we took care of the 2010 Cardinals is huge.

The Reds are going to be the big dog going into next year. The Pirates, Brewers, and Astros are light years away from getting everything together. Despite the Cubs deep pockets, I don’t think they have the payroll flexibility to fix things. Plus the Rickets family is sending a message the Cubs are going to try and solve their problems with an organizational overhaul, not free agency. With all the money due to Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, Lohse, Franklin, Trevor Miller, Molina, and Schumaker, they don’t seem to have a great deal of pay roll flexibility.

Best part is Lohse is due just a few hundred less than Arroyo next year.

Loshe will make just a few hundred grand less than Arroyo in 2011.

This is a team that lacks starting pitching depth, and were very lucky that Carpenter, Wainwright, and Garcia didn’t suffer any sort of injury, because they didn’t have any major league ready starting pitcher who could even adequately fill in. Also I feel that Garcia may have a little regression, he is a young pitcher a little over a year removed from TJS who threw a lot of innings this year. Also bear in mind that 2010 was the first year Carpenter avoided the DL since 2006. They don’t really have the money or young talent to provide any depth in the rotation. Also they don’t really have many solutions for there Pujols/Holliday centric offense.

Maybe I have red tinted glasses, but I think the Reds are in the best position for 2011, barring any major overhauls for Chicago or St. Louis this off season.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:38 AM EDT reply actions  

Amen.

I think the Astros are the most likely to challenge the Reds next year.

by Don, the Rebel without a Blog on Oct 11, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd have to go Cardinals

followed by Cubs, followed by Brewers unless they trade Prince off. Then maybe the Astros? I’d have the ’Stros battling the Pirates for the cellar.

Oh, and I agree the Reds are in the best position to take the division next year. but the Cards are close.

by kcgard2 on Oct 11, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just caught a fly with my hands

Anger and disappointment give me sharpened reflexes. That’s good to know.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Sorry, grasshopper.

It’s October. Flies are slow in October.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

We should audition you in RF

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Fay

has the Reds’ reaction.

Reds manager Dusty Baker and players talked about this season being a first step.

"Look at Philly, they got swept in the ’07 and they won the World Series the next year," he said. "We’ll be back. We’ll be all right."

The players echoed that.

"Our plan is that this is just first of many good teams," Jay Bruce said. "This is the end. But we have a great team. We’re looking forward to next year."

Despite the ugly ending, the Reds made a significant step this year, having the first winning season since 2000 and making the playoffs for the first time since 1995.

"We achieved a lot," general manager Walt Jocketty said. "We had a winning season. We got to the postseason. It was a positive step. We’ve got something to build on for next year."

…The Reds’ third and fourth hitters — Joey Votto and Scott Rolen — were 2-for-21 in the series with one RBI.

"They have a good team," Rolen said. "We struggled against them. I certainly struggled. It wasn’t from lack of effort."

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:41 AM EDT reply actions  

It's definitely important to remember that this is all gravy

Bitter, disgusting gravy, but extra all the same. I doubted that this team was capable of a winning season, which was all I was hoping for. I said it throughout the playoffs that I was just happy to be there. Losing, especially in three games, is still hard to swallow, but the team gets as much of a free pass as I can give.

Next year, they better learn how to live up to expectations.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or you could look at it this way

a text from a buddy after the game: “Reds reward for a three-game sweep in the playoffs? Two more years of Dusty.”

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm okay with that, frankly

Dusty proved his quality in the season. Yes, he can be infuriating at times, but I think every team’s fanbase hates their manager. Dusty’s the right fit for this clubhouse, and I do think he got (slightly) better tactically this season. I’m not seeing Dusty as manager as a negative for next season.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

If anyone is the "glue"

it’s Dusty. The players like him, like playing for him – he gives the team continuity and, quite possibly, a reason some of the guys might weigh when considering extensions.

I just think there’s a couple more bullets that need to get taken out of his magazine. which falls to Walt. No more middling, half-measure veteran signings.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Votto loves him

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you're reading this Walt

don’t friggin sign Jim Edmonds next time when you’re looking for the final piece of the puzzle.

kay thanx bye

by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 11, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dusty

I am moderately sick of Dusty-bitching. No way this team makes the playoffs with a no personality statsy tactician (Ken Macha).

by bobestes on Oct 11, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is fair enough

but impossible to prove one way or another

by kcgard2 on Oct 11, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with that too

What does this dude have to convince Cesar that he is no Jerry narron?

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Make better lineup decisions for a start

And don’t bunt the fastest guy on your team to second base in the late innings of a tie game thereby opening up first base so one of the best hitters in the league will automatically get intentionally walked so you can have Mr. 3 homers since June bat.

That’s just a start.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly feel the Reds could have won at least 4-5 more games

this season with a different manager.

Also the loyalty to his players is sweet and all, but sometimes loyalty MUST take a back seat to winning. You can’t live off past accomplishments.

Rolen and Cabrera both had no business being on the field against the Phillies in any of the games. Why in the hell do you have two aging players at definite less than 100 percent health playing two key defensive positions in playoff games?

Sad to say, the Reds would have had a better chance with Cairo at 3B and Janish at SS.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You SIT Rolen?

Wow.

by the way, ask the Phillies: neither Polanco nor Rollins is a 100%

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

With the way he's played the last month

and with his obvious injuries…..yes.

Or here’s an idea, Dusty….don’t bat a guy who has 3 homers since June in the cleanup spot!

Rollins and Polanco are both younger than Cabrera and Rolen. Younger banged-up player much more likely to be able to perform and compensate than older banged-up player.

And note with Rollins’ injury, the Phils didn’t expect the same things out of him. They moved him down in the order (batting sixth), where he’s lack of speed wasn’t as much of an issue. Did Dusty move Rolen down in the order?

The last month of the season, Ryan Hanigan would have been a better option in the cleanup spot than Rolen.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i dont think there's a manager in baseball who would hit Hanigan cleanup over Rolen

hindsight is 20/20, of course.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know that

but Hanigan shouldn’t have been just mindlessly penciled in at No. 8 either. There was plenty of evidence that Rolen shouldn’t bat cleanup, and it was obvious O-Cab shouldnt have played at least on Sunday, but Dusty ignored that evidence to the team’s detriment.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't expect Dusty to play Rolen any differently than he did, and I don't mind

But Dusty definitely has a weakness with lineup construction. It will be a huge coup if we can just have a leadoff hitter that isn’t historically terrible at getting on base next season.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Players win games

Managers lose them. Best managers identify the best players to use, try to put those players in the best possible situations to succeed, and then get the fuck out of the way.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on Dusty

His did his job like his few supporters said he could. through all the crazy line-ups and all, the reds won.

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds won in spite of Dusty

NOT because of Dusty. They won because for all their flaws, they still have a young, talented team with excellent pitching depth.

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

but it's not like football

Dusty’s a good motivator. Bob Brenly won a world series. In football the Bob Brenlys don’t get farther than head coach at Rice.

by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 11, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I wasn’t expecting the Reds to reach the postseason this year. I thought next year would be the year. So it is gravy.

It’s the errors that I find hard to take. Not hitting…you kind of have to expect that in the playoffs. But all those unearned runs. Arrghhhh.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

It sure seemed like they weren't quite up to handling the playoffs

Nerves or something. I’m not sure what to pin Rolen’s errors on.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

age? injury?

Cabrera led the team in errors, but in second place was Rolen.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

It really seems like Rolen was nursing/hiding an injury

Rolen can be productive next year, but 120 games really seems like his ceiling. They need to keep a contingency plan – someone who can field the position. Todd Frazier?

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

//Bench'd

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

/LLM'd

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

My hope is that they trade END as part of a package for a SS or LF and put Frazier back at third.

Let Valaika or someone fill the Cairo role to start next year, then if/when Rolen starts faltering, get Frazier up here. I really think you’ll see him have much, much more success in AAA in 2011.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reds are going to have some interesting roster decisions to make

Cozart and Frazier have to be added to the 40-man or exposed to Rule 5. Ditto Mesoraco, I think.

I gotta think at least one of Cozart, Valaika, or Frazier will be traded.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or Alonso. That would clear a 40-man spot.

But I agree, they all three won’t likely be in the org. next year.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

not sure

It used to be late November, but there was a rumor earlier this year that the Rule 5 draft was moving to Nov. 20. If that’s true, the rosters must be set earlier. (Rule 5 draft used to be early December.)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with your sentiment, disagree with your analogy

a bitter gravy spoils the meal.
I am quite sated and give a hearty burp for the chef

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

This was a wonderful, spastic season

Surpassing all my expectations (admittedly lowered) – from the Chapman signing in the dead of winter to Bruce’s walk-off clincher just after the autumnal equinox.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2010 12:43 AM EDT reply actions  

the Chapman singing reinvigorated me as a fan.

Walt hadn’t done a great job prior to that. Patterson, T-Virus, at the time I wasn’t real pleased with Rolen, the Dunn trade has been a huge flop, really the biggest thing I can think he did was getting Masset.

But by singing Chapman, I saw a real commitment to win, and it is an important gamble for small/medium market teams like Cincinnati to get great players in that fashion.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Two of the best offenses I believe in the league

and hardly any runs by both. This was a pitchers duel from both clubs really, not just the Phillies. I mean besides game two which five of the seven runs were unearned we didn’t do anything impressive.

by JoeBuckSUCKS on Oct 11, 2010 12:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Even then

you didn’t do anything impressive….silver platter job for you guys….:)

"Read a fucking book." - Nucky Thompson

by cesarhernandez on Oct 11, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, the Phillies did take advantage of the opportunities we provided

And also played well enough to deny us any of those gifted opportunities in return. Props for that.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

And, apart from the Utley error in game 2, played pretty damn good defense behind those good pitchers

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

two Utley errors in one inning

We had our chances.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Big ups and thanks to Brendan and Gray

for distilling every game into a palatable nightcap.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2010 12:47 AM EDT reply actions  

And to everyone else who did them

Pretty much every mod took a turn at least once.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we're in the credits sequence of the season now

Assistant to Mr. Nukkah – Derp Crampland

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

i even shaved my beard off to change the luck

that took like half an hour too.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:47 AM EDT reply actions  

These Reds are still green! Not quite ripe yet, says I.

Do it again on March 31st, 2011. Road to the postseason starts with the brew crew.

by Im_a_fun_haver on Oct 11, 2010 12:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Hell of a Season, Fellas

Surprised everyone in baseball by not just having a quality winning season, but won the team Triple Crown for offense and fielding the probably NLMVP. Don’t feel too down. The team you’ve followed all year is the real one, not the one that made you facepalm this week. It’s amazing how quickly one playoff appearance (and failure) can give you the experience and drive necessary.

The Phils were swept pretty soundly by the Rockies in ‘07. Look what happened the next year. I’ve said it before, but the Reds remind me an awful lot of that ’07 team.

Sorry about the random Phils Trolls (who, oddly, never seem to ever post on the Good Phight, yet show up in opposing blogs to be dicks…). Don’t judge us all by them. We’re rough in the ballpark. That intimidation is what home field advantage is all about. But we’re not going to punch a fan in a red’s hat walking down the street (or anywhere for that matter). You’ll get a smartass comment, but if you smile and fire one back, you’ll get a good baseball conversation and a drinking buddy for as long as you want one.

See you guys same time next year.

Cheers.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 12:53 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Remember to thank

Joey Votto, Brandon Phillips, Scott Rolen, and Arthur Rhodes, who helped win home field advantage for you in the All-Star Game.

(Go Giants!)

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did Arthur play in the ASG?

I think he was pretty gimpy then

"Fuck it, we'll do it live."

by DTFH91 on Oct 11, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

he was there, on the active roster, but didn't pitch

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

yet he prevented 2 runs from the bullpen

by sheer veteranny-ness.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 12, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Truth

Except I can’t thank Scotty. You can do it for me. We’re not on speaking terms.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, what is the deal?

What went down when Rolen left Philly? Eight years ago, I might add.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was early on in the restructuring of the team

Jimmy was a rookie. Burrell was up in the bigs. Utley was on his way, Howard was on his way. Cole was coming (to say nothing of the new Ballpark they were getting ready to break ground on next door). They were building a winner the right way: Through scouting and prospect development. Rolen was going to be one of the centerpieces of that team.

He got pissy and tired of waiting, wanted to play for a winner NOW, gave an excuse about not wanting to hurt his knees playing on turf and bitched continually until Ed Wade traded him for some office supplies and a bag of balls.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

he ended his relationship with Philly and St. Louis on bad terms

Cards fans still love him though, which is one strike against him.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

well I think that's because in St. Louis

he was kind of driven out, whereas in Philadelphia he actyvely wanted to leave. I doubt we’ll see anything like that here because his career is mostly over.

Philadelphia fans have to like that Rolen utterly failed this series. I was too hard on him myself, but I really developed a negative attitude towards him because of his comeplete failure on offense and defense. I know he was trying his best, it wasn’t like he was phoning it in.

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

it is okay to be mad at him

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah and his 8Ks or higher

were very uncharacteristic. He does not strikeout alot

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Philly fans have to like that Rolen utterly failed this series."

I know it’s not what any of you want to hear, but since you brought it up, the fact that Rolen wore the Sombrero in Doc’s game and was the final out on a swinging K tonight…

the general consensus over at The Good Phight and among my friends was:

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not surprised

Part of what annoyed me so much about Rolen this series was that the fans challenged him all the time with their boos and he failed. As I said I don’t want dump on Rolen because he was important to this year, but he let us all down in the playoffs

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he's pretty hurt...

I mean, I hate him, but I can’t help but acknowledge how strained he looks… he’s a better player than he’s appeared this week.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah and I know that make the phans hate him more

if he was just a two bit minor leaguer with no talent they wouldn’t have loved him so much to begin with or hate him so much for going.

question, I read in an article about Rolen, that Rolen had a huge contingent of female fans in Philadelphia, is that at all true?

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

jealous?

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol of Rolen?

or of Philadelphia women? I am a bit jelaous of Phialdelphia women right now because their team just won the NLDS, but that’s about it

Actually, it’s more about validation, early this season I mentioned that I think Rolen isn’t too bad looking, especially in terms of figure and general physical presence. Others disagreed. If Philadelphia women thought he was great looking then I’m not nuts…wait ;)

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

when i am trying to judge the attractiveness of a person

i always ask what would a Philadelphian think!

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good call

Pittsburgh… separated from Philadelphia by a highway, State, and 200,000 years of evolution.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pittsburgh is losing in my book

I dated a girl who went to Pitt, another girl who is from the Pittsburgh area, so that is like 12 strikes against Pittsburgh.

But one of my roommates from last year also went to Pitt and grew up in Pittsburgh, and he is one of my closest friends, so maybe the score is like 12-2 anti-Pittsburgh, well I guess it went 14-2 anti-Pittsburgh when he showed my his two Steelers Super Bowl DVD’s the day I met him.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't stop watching this

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Oct 11, 2010 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

whats' the context?

anyone know?

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

just another kid with a webcam

some people decided he was meme-worthy. There are a few videos of him around.

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is he the unholy product of an eagle and a man?

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come.

by chesirecat on Oct 11, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

oh shit.

I shouldn’t rec this but I probably will once the chortling stops.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

If he was a two bit minor leaguer with no talent...

He would have gone 4 for 9 with 8 RBIs against us.

And yes, the ladies did lick him back in the day.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

lick?

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

HA! Freudian Slip Fail

They liked him. Beyond that I have no immediate knowledge of the subject.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

he did somewhat

but nothing like Pat Burrel. He made the ladies scream.

by JoeBuckSUCKS on Oct 11, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the Pat Burrell thing so much

what about Hamels? Burrell and Rolen can stir up support, he must be able to—he looks like a model which is annoying when he is destroying your lineup

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno... chicks dig the long ball.

We’ve just long-accepted (and it seems the Gigantes were quick to ken to this as well) that if you’re dating a girl that you met AFTER 2000, it’s almost a sure bet that Pat the Bat’s been there before you.

Hell, even if you HAD been dating prior to Pat’s arrival in Philly, there’s STILL a better-than-decent chance that PtB’s been all up in that at some point….

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 16, 2010 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, you have no idea

If you give your all, do your best and leave on good terms, you will be loved forever.

Case in point: In our interleague series vs. the Twins, we were up a bunch in the 9th and up comes Jim Thome as the pinch hitter. Dude hits a 3-run jack and got a standing O from the Philly Phaithful (granted, we were still up a LOT and we might not have cheered so much had we known it would lead to a come-from-ahead loss, but he still would never get booed).

Same goes for Burrell. We were in a tight Division Race (at the time, lolBraves) down the stretch and in his first time back in CBP as a Giant, Pat the Bat homers and gets a standing O. Now by his third homer of the series, he still wasn’t getting booed, but people were cheering “Please Stop Killing Us, CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP.”

Conversely, Scott Rolen is hated so much precisely because he WAS LOVED so much and did us dirty.

JD Drew, on the other hand, was drafted by us and flat-out refused to sign, simply because it was the Phillies… That’s why he has the rare resume accomplishment of being “the only player to be pelted with batteries by Phildelphia Phillies Phans.” Christ, We boo his effin’ brother when the Diamondbacks are in town…

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

really?

He didn’t want to sign with the Phillies?

I thought he just wanted more money than the Phillies were willing to give him.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

He and Shyster-Extraordinaire Scott Boras

said publicly that they wanted $11 Mil and would not sign otherwise.

Philly said that they had no intention of playing an unproven talent a record-setting amount of money to an unproven rookie.

They drafted him. Drew walked and played independent ball (while also claiming to have never received the contracts the Phils sent him via Fed-Ex). Even those players hated him. Pitchers threw at him for turning down millions.

He then signed a minor league $8-million deal the next year after being drafted by St. Louis and the word at the time was that he just didn’t want to play for Philly.

Schilling warned him to wear a thicker batting helmet when he played his first game in Philly and the crowd let him know it too, as anyone who has been hit by D-Cell batteries can attest to.

I’m not condoning that mind you, but… you know… fuck JD Drew.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

but

if he said he wanted $11 million and wouldn’t sign otherwise, why did the Phillies draft him? Don’t they take “signability” into account?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Going from Tito to Bowa was just as important as anything

Rolen needs a Player’s Manager. He doesn’t respond to the red ass type.

by ken on Oct 11, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

All right, fine people. Bedtime for those of us who have to work in the morning.

It’s been good to share this magical season with you all. The end was bitter, but the season was sweet. When I sleep tonight, I’ll dream of sunshine, green grass, Goodyear, AZ, and February 13, 2011.

And maybe Hanley Ramirez in a Reds uniform.

by the finest muffins on Oct 11, 2010 12:56 AM EDT reply actions  

well we get new baseball art on February 13, 2011?

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don't want Hanley

That guy is an incredible talent with no drive, hustle or pride.

I’d take 10 hard-nosed gamers over Hanley and his I’ll-get-it-when-I-wanna jogs after balls.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking how much I wanted to hire Philly's batting coach

Shane Victorino and Jayson Werth were basically who the fuck cares, but after a couple years on the Phils, they’ve turned into these amazing hitters. I want some of that.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even though they fired him this year...

But yeah, Milt was legit. He was just the sacrificial lamb to wake up a slumping, listless offense.

He took it that way too. Never said a bad word about the team and has been to games rooting them on. He’s the man.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Oct 11, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

So long 2010 Reds, and thanks for the memories

This one’s for you

"Fuck it, we'll do it live."

by DTFH91 on Oct 11, 2010 1:00 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

whether its Orson Wells or Simon Pegg

either way, its one of my favorite gifs.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Try this on for size

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

same fit

I’d answer with that kitty with a machine gun gif. Now there is a great gif!

by ol Pete on Oct 11, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where's a galloping fiery llama when you need it?

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

right here!

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 12, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

What if it's Simon Pegg playing Orson Wells?

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

For as bad as the Reds defense was this series

Brooks Conrad probably had the single worst game in the field.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2010 1:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Yup

I couldn’t help but feel a little bit sorry for Mr. Grand Slammerson.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Three errors

Including letting the winning hit go under his glove in the ninth inning.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought something would happen to the Braves

for that comeback in May, but that is pretty brutal, poor Braves fans

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

i might have felt bad for them

but they started up that annoying tomahawk chant.

They remain at #3 on the List of Evil Teams.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 12, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

you know what the other cool thing about this year is

only 2 members of the opening day rotation pitched the entire season (that isn’t the cool part) but the Reds didn’t miss a beat.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:19 AM EDT reply actions  

I thought the best highlight was

after they got swept by the Cards: Janish came in for Tubby (coincidence?) they went to the west coast and kicked some butts, which is rare for the Reds since the BRM.

It was a nice season.

by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 11, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

The silver lining is

After a really disappointing sweep, this team always rebounds really well.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 11, 2010 1:22 AM EDT reply actions  

lets go get them tomor.... oh

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Next Year, It's our turn to sweep!

Best thing that could happen to the team was getting swept. Why? They got something to shoot for next year.
Have a great Winter 2010. Let’s Go 2011 Reds.

by Jack Armstrong started an All Star Game on Oct 11, 2010 1:30 AM EDT reply actions  

i really thought the best thing that could happen is win the World Series...

Apparently we have different definitions of the word “best”.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was reading Sheldon's article

and I saw this quote from Votto:

“The next time we’re in Game 2 and we’re up 4-0, I think we’ll say, ’We’ve been here already, let’s close it out,’” Votto said. “That’s not to disrespect any of my teammates or our organization, but we’ll have been there and done that.”

I like his confidence, but I just hope we’re not all 15 years older next time they make it this far. They have something to prove next year. They have to show that they weren’t a fluke and get back to the NLDS and defat their opponent.

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 1:39 AM EDT reply actions  

we are the team to beat in the NL Central in 2011

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

lets see what happens this offseason first.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe Bob will open up his wallet, since we came so close.

I don’t think we can stand pat. I think we were a bit lucky this year, in that some players played better than we can expect them to next year. And the Cards sucked more than we can probably count on next year.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really have nothing to say other than

A couple of observations from being at the game tonight

I don’t think any Phillie swung at a first pitch. I may be wrong about that but I do not remember any. They really grind out bats and that is something the Reds need to improve upon to help run pitch counts up.

Rolen should not have played. And Cabrera either. Both were noticeably hurting. Kudos to them for wanting to play, and they did each get a hit, but in my mind they hurt the team tonight.

A hat tip to Philadelphia for the classy way the celebrated on the field.

Hope Springs Eternal

by Caleb on Oct 11, 2010 3:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Joe Kernen on CNBC

wasn’t even very upset this morning.

He said after the horror of Friday night, he just couldn’t get worked up about anything.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 7:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Thoughts for Next Season

1. Gomes is a #4 outfielder (duh). We need to replace him with an honest to god threat to bat cleanup, behind Votto. Oh and he has to play good defense too.

2. This allows us to drop Rolen in the lineup. He’s a cleanup hitter in April and May only.

3. This team is way way better when Jay Bruce can consistently be a threat.

4. We need a real shortstop. I believe that Janish is an excellent backup, but we are hurt by the lack of an honest to god starting SS.

5. Do not get too attached to the group of Phillips, Leake, Wood, LeCure, Maloney, Bailey, Alonso and maybe even Cueto or Volquez. One of ’em’s getting traded.

6. In a perfect world, they’d be grooming a 3B to slot in behind Rolen next year. I am not sure if Francisco is that guy.

7. I understand the reaction which says “WE NEED A CLIFF LEE”, but I’m not sure that’s the case. Our pitchers did 2.51 ERA against the Phillies, we just didn’t hit for shit. (See lack of real cleanup hitter)

8. Other than Votto (duh), the player I’m most consistently excited about is Drew Stubbs. I think in three years, he’s going to be a stud.

9. This year was awesome, no regrets, I am kind of tired of Dusty bashing, though.

by bobestes on Oct 11, 2010 8:34 AM EDT reply actions  

I know it's been discussed already, and will likely again, much more clearly, by someone soon, but

Assuming certain options (Ramon, Arroyo, Gomes) get exercised, the Reds have about $55 million in player obligations next season. That buys them:
Arroyo, Cordero, Phillips, Chapman, Hernandez, Gomes, and Massett, and gets them out from under Harang and Cabrera. If they trade Alonso that lowers that number to 54.

 Wood, Stubbs, Smith, Ondrusek, Leake, Heisey, Janish, Hanigan, and Bailey all will make the minimum, so they’ll add about $3.5-4 million total.

Then there’s the arb guys: Cueto, Votto, Volquez, and Bruce are going to add a lot. I really have no idea how much, so I’ll guess about $20 million.

That means that payroll is already at where it was this year without adding anyone. I’m not sure a FA type LF or SS can be had. The only possibility I see is trading a huge chunk of the AAA surplus for a good but still cheap player.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

In my mind

there is no question about the fact that certain lovable players from this team will not return, most likely to be traded.

Phillips is gonna make some coin next year, he’s a valuable trade piece and we seem to have organizational depth at 2B. Big Money + Tradeability + Depth = traded

by bobestes on Oct 11, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

they've been trying to trade BP for awhile now

Wouldn’t surprise me if they finally did it.

But who do you see replacing him? Valaika? Frazier?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

well, there's where it falls apart

Do you hand starting 2B to Frazier? Uh… probably not.

by bobestes on Oct 11, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, really?

I thought that was all conjecture. I didn’t know there were really trade efforts happening.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think there were

That is, it was reported in the press that he was on the block (sources: the other teams).

But I think the Reds value him a lot more than other teams do, which made doing a deal difficult.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think other teams probably undervalue him.

But we probably overvalue him too. I always think he’s a better hitter than he actually is, but he’s a pretty slick fielder.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

We might have organizational depth at the position

But there is certainly not a single player in the organization who I trust to be our starting 2B next year, for a playoff-hopeful team, if Phillips is gone. I don’t think Phillips is going anywhere.

by ThePensive on Oct 11, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. He's expensive, but for next year anyway, he'll still be worth it. And the potential replacements are less than exciting.

I just wish Billy Hamilton had been in AAA instead of rookie ball this year.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was listening to a Kevin Goldstein podcast the other day

He named Hamilton as one of his 3 breakout guys for next year, across all leagues and all organizations. Good to see him get noticed elsewhere.

by ken on Oct 11, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's cool, but a bit funny to me.

I have a hard time seeing how a guy who hit .318/.383/.456 needs to “break out”.

I guess he has a different definition of the phrase.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I might not recall the exact category

But basically it was a “guy’s to really watch out for” kind of thing. Since even fans that follow the minor leagues don’t typically pay any mind to rookie ball players.

by ken on Oct 11, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Phillips signed his extension after a career year before the bubble burst

He’s a good player but makes a lot of money and still carries some of the malcontent baggage from Cleveland, so his value on the trade market is pretty low. Without a credible replacement I can’t see trading him.

by ken on Oct 11, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

That’s a big reason to go with Janish and/or Cozart. I really don’t think there’s anyone available who’s better, who won’t cost so much it cripples the team.

Maybe Bob will increase payroll after this year’s success, but I wouldn’t count on it. Economy looks like it’s turning south again. And increasing spending from $65 million to $100 million didn’t help the Twins much this year.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I don't think the larger state of the economy is going to matter directly to the Reds payroll.

What will matter is season tix sales. If they are way up through the end of the year, I could see a payroll of $85 million or so. That still won’t buy a top-flight FA left-fielder.

Also, the Twins comp is terrible. A huge chunk of that pay increase was to re-sign guys or give raises to guys who were already on the team, not add FAs. Also, they did win 7 more games this year. I’d say that’s a pretty significant improvement.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it will matter

It did last year. It was the larger economy, not ticket sales, that caused all the teams to pull in their horns. Players cried collusion, but it was economic crisis, not collusion. Ticket sales are not that big a part of revenue, which is why the Pirates are profitable despite sucking so bad.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, Reds TV viewership is way, way up, and with all the exciting young players plus postseason stuff, I'm guessing merchandising will be too

Also, season ticket sales are bound to go up as well.

And ticket sales may not be a huge part of the Yankees revenue, but it matters more for other teams. And the Pirates are profitable because they won’t pay anyone. If their ticket sales were higher, they could pay some players and still be profitable.

It’s very inaccurate to pretend like ticket sales don’t matter (esp. season tix), and I’m guessing/hoping they go up for the Reds this season.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn't talking about the Yankees

They’re obviously in a whole different class, and some still argue they aren’t profitable.

I was thinking of those leaked MLB financial documents a few weeks back. The ones that showed the Pirates would lose money if they increased payroll. The amount they’d have to pay would not be made up in ticket sales, especially when you take into account the loss of revenue sharing money that comes with increased ticket sales.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's fine, but that example isn't really indicative of the entire league

And to use them as an example of how the economy is affecting payrolls isn’t really accurate either. Even in a good economy they benefit more from low payroll because of revenue sharing, etc.

League-wide, attendance is down, which affects payrolls. Taking individual cases, though, it’s reasonable to think that the Reds success could lead to increased revenue (through any number of avenues, tickets just being one) which would hopefully lead to increased payroll as well.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it is indicative of the entire league

in that every team faces the same issues. An increase in ticket sales means a decrease in revenue sharing money, so profit is less than you’d expect.

And I didn’t mean they were an example of how the economy’s affecting payrolls. The Pirates have been doing what they’re going for over a decade.

What I do mean is that revenue is a lot more than ticket sales. I would guess advertising is a huge chunk, and one that is very sensitive to economic conditions. Ditto merchandise sales. (How does that work? Do you know? I believe football shares those revenues, so a winning year won’t necessarily mean a bigger profit for the team in question, even if it means more jersey sales.)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I won't pretend I completely understand the economics of baseball

But for every area that a team can increase revenue (tix sales, adverts, merch) you are saying it’s less than you’d think.

I’m saying that if all of those increase, revenue and profits will go up. I don’t know by how much, but they will. So I’m hoping that Bob puts however much that is right back into the team.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Plus, they got an extra 45,000 in playoff ticket sales!

That’s at least 1,125,000 dollars, assuming $25 ticket price and no parking or vending revenue.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

no, I'm not saying that

I’m saying that ticket sales are probably not the major source of revenue, and that the others are likely to reflect the economic climate more than the team’s win-loss record.

Sorry if I’m a bit of a Debbie Downer this morning. I’m watching CNBC, and their usual rah-rah cheerleading has given way to a lot of doom and gloom, particularly over the mortgage crisis. All those bailouts didn’t address the fundamental problem: toxic assets that banks can’t clear without revealing that they’re insolvent. Now BoA has declared a moratorium in all 50 states. Ye gods. Who’s going to want to buy a house, when it might turn out the title isn’t clear, and you don’t own what you thought you bought?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

wouldn't ticket sales help other areas

like ballpark advertising. If I have an add in GABP, I will find it to be more valuable if they are averaging 33,000 a night rather than 23,000 a night.

Also one would think an increase in ticket sales would indicate an increase in popularity which would create more broadcasting revenue, and an increase in merchandise sales.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm sure certain ones are, especially the one behind home plate

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

those were digitally added, weren't they?

I think they’re chroma-keyed in. You don’t even see them if you’re at the ballpark.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

ehh..

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them in stills. I know I’ve seen the adidas ad in print.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

it might

But remember, they’re competing with other ways of advertising, and advertising is seen as discretionary by many companies.

Last year, advertising took a big hit because two of the major sports advertisers, banks and automobiles, cut back.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That may be, but in the Reds' specific case, everything is up

TV viewership, merch, etc. It seems reasonable to assume the team did decently well financially this year.

And if season ticket sales are strong this offseason, it should encourage them to spend a bit.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stubbs is who is he is, I think

He’s 25. I don’t see him getting that much better (cutting down on K’s is possible), but I’m fine with that. He plays solid defense and can run. Put him in the 6 or 7 hole and he’s a dangerous guy to have around.

Has anyone considered Heisy for full-time LF?

Point number 5 is so true that it might have been on Joseph Smith’s golden tablets. Sadly, we will never know….

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heisey

I may be wrong, but I believe he has Jonny Gomes 4th outfielder syndrome

by bobestes on Oct 11, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heisey is an all star vs PIT

and meh against the rest.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

the scouts seem to really love him

I’m on the fence.

I think he’d be a better 4th OFer than Gomes, though, simply because he can play all three OF positions well. Gomes can’t even play one.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

one scout said

That if he started every day for three weeks, he’d never be out of the lineup again.

He’s supposedly above average in everything – contact, speed, power, patience.

However, I think he’s still pretty raw. The only reason he was called up this year was the Reds didn’t have any alternatives. He hasn’t really had a full year in AAA yet.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never really saw Heisey's bat play that way

He seemed above average in speed, and roughly average in contact – maybe his BABIP was low – average power, patience. With time, maybe that gets better. But he got a lot worse with playing time this year. At least he’s young.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

heisey has some tools

and is a useful reserve ballplayer. i dont see him as a starting OF on a contendor. but he does have value.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, he's pretty young/raw

he could be a valuable starting OF given time and improvement/strengthening/luck

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is actually a good thought.

If they are set on bringing back Gomes, Heisey might be a nice piece in a package for someone.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

he seems kinda Murton-y

but a better fielder. He’s a great guy to have around, and my guess is he’ll be a solid bench bat, 4th OF for a few years, then finally get 600PAs at age 29 and everyone will be “Wow, where’d that come from?”

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing I was pissed about

Is that Cabrera was willing to hurt the team by playing hurt. Tell me that error wasn’t the result of him being hurt, and I’ll call you a liar.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 8:45 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I really don't want Cabrera back

I might take him as a utility infielder, but he doesn’t want that role, and it’s clear Dusty can’t be trusted to use him that way.

He’s got the mobility of a brick, and he hit worse than Janish. Trade for Stephen Drew, or commit to Janish or Cozart. Quit dicking around with Cabrera types.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Janish is a backup

who can come in and give you a good week or two when someone is injured.

They need to trade from their pitching stock to secure a SS and/or LF

by bobestes on Oct 11, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see Janish get a chance

If they were willing to go with Cabrera this year, they should be willing to go with Janish next year. Is he going to be an all-star? No. But it’s not like there are any of those available.

You saw the list of available shortstops posted. Which one did you like? I didn’t like any of them. They were either too old, too expensive, or no better than Janish.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I;m cool with Janish at short

his defense is so much better, even if he didn’t hit satsifactorily, which I think he does, it would be an improvement.

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

somebody google Rick Auerbach

that’s paul janish

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this

Janish can’t hit, but it’s clear that Cabrera can’t either. Janish plays excellent defense, and there are a lot of teams that put up with meh offense for excellent defense at the position.

Further, the possibility of getting a really good SS through sign or trade is really low. LF seems like a much better option, so go with the guys you already have at SS.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I’d like to see Cozart given a chance with the reins. Don’t assume he’ll dominate or nothing, have a backup plan (Cozart for one, some AAAA filler for other), but I’d like to see what he can do with some trust.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

Their attempts get a veteran SS have been an epic fail, IMO.

SS, like catcher, is a position where most teams make some compromises. You could do a lot worse than Janish, IMO.

And who knows, maybe he’ll be a surprise. No one expected Robinson Cano to turn into the player he did. The only reason the Yankees kept him was that no one would take him when they tried to trade him.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

substandard bat at SS can work

but you can’t have holes at other Big Bat positions (LF, 3B, 1B, RF). Reds have a big hole in LF and could easily have one at 3B if Rolen gets injured or seizes up.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

but I think

filling the hole in LF would be a lot easier than getting a SS better than Janish.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't stop thinking that we're kidding ourselves by imagining Janish as our Opening Day/every day shortstop.

I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be a prudent move, just that it’s probably Walt’s third or fourth favorite option for his plan at shortstop:

Plan A: Sign Cabrera
Plan B: SIgn a less expensive veteran.
Plan C: Trade for a less expensive veteran.
Plan D: Play Janish.

Now, if he signs Carl Crawford then he could reconfigure his options on that list but I’m guessing he probably figures that Janish is not the right shortstop for a young improving team that got shut down offensively in the playoffs and he he’s thinking that Rolen and Cabrera have onnnnnnne more year left in ’em.

"Fun to play with not to eat!"

by Fat Vegas Alan on Oct 11, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think RR loves Paulie a lot more than Walt and Dusty do

now….if Mr Janish taught young Paulie to hit LH that would have been something special.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Oct 11, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

At this point

I don’t think it should be our goal to settle on Janish as the shortstop. But I agree with the sentiment that if they can get a monster bat in LF, Janish can bat 8th all year and do his best Cesar Geronimo impression.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Oct 11, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know RR loves Janish more than Mrs. Janish does

although to be fair, that’s because we don’t pick up after him or remind him to take out the damn trash already!

by timb116 on Oct 11, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

And don't feed me that veteran presence bullcrap.

If they can’t show up to play for the playoffs, I don’t think that’s exactly helping the team.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

if we must have veteran presence

Let it be at a less defensively demanding position.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or let it be Omar Vizquel :P

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Oct 11, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry about your luck guys.

Your team reminds me so much of the 2007 Phillies it’s crazy. A team that fought it’s way into the playoffs, surprising everyone just to get there only to get swept by a better and hotter team in the 2007 NLDS. In that series nothing went right for the Phillies. Couldn’t hit, couldn’t pitch, couldn’t field, nothing. It was depressing. But they took that experience and learned from it, I think that sweep might have been one of the best things for them.

You all have a young and exciting team. A great core of players, in fact I think your core could be better than what the Phillies had when they started this run. There is absolutely no reason your team can’t own the NL Central for the next several years, and I really hope they do. Though I would be remiss if I didn’t wish for it to happen in spite of Rolen but eh, what can you do.

I have really enjoyed reading this blog over the last week or so. You all do a great job here, definitely one of the better blogs in SBNation. Once again, sorry about your luck. See you next year in the post season. Good luck guys and gals.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Oct 11, 2010 9:00 AM EDT reply actions  

thanks--hearing the 2007 Philly comparisons

give me hope for next year, but I’m not quite over this series yet, almost, but I feel like our real team never showed up. I think Brandon summarized it well:

From Hal’s blog: "It stinks to lose, but it stinks even more to give away two games the way we did. We didn’t give away games during the season, so this really stinks." I don;t think we really gave away game 3 like we gaveaway game 2, but I understand him.

In any case, I’m really happy they madde it this far when, in April, I just hoped we wouldn’t keep losing to the Pirates lol

by Red_Poodle on Oct 11, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm outta here for a little while.

Time to lick my wounds for a few weeks. See you.

I do not like pickles.

by Pops Daniels on Oct 11, 2010 9:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Reggie Sanders, 1995 NLCS: 2 for 13, 10Ks

Scott Rolen, 2010 NLDS: 1 for 11, 8 Ks

Swept by a NL East team with dominant starters both times…

Sigh…

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come.

by chesirecat on Oct 11, 2010 9:41 AM EDT reply actions  

these Phillies are no 95 Braves, though

it may just be youth and memories talking, but thats what I think.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was the year Maddux had a 262 ERA +

As good as Halladay is, he’s not that good

"Fuck it, we'll do it live."

by DTFH91 on Oct 11, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey everyone...

Didn’t get to watch much of the series due to the wedding and all… last night was the only game I was able to watch more than a couple innings. It doesn’t look like I missed too many Reds highlights.

Just wanted to say thank you all for being such a great place to enjoy Reds fandom. Just moving to Cincy, so looking forward to Burger stops and Red Reporter game meet-ups and I also suggest we start a Cincinnati Chili tour of some of the local parlors!

by Nasty N8 on Oct 11, 2010 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

It was a great year ended by a really good team

and you can’t many Series where you commit more errors than runs you score in 3 games

Hope Springs Eternal

by Caleb on Oct 11, 2010 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Has that ever happened before, more errors than run in a playoff series? Is Slyde still around to find this out or is he passed out in the parking lot across from Fat Cat's?

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

On behalf of The Good Phight

Thank you for engaging us and sharing some great conversation leading up to and during the NLDS. This is easily one of the best blogs on SBN, with some of the most articulate and knowledgeable fans. Best of luck in the future.

Also, Votto for MVP.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 11, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

it got kinda gross in here at times during the series

and RR, much like the Reds themselves, was not wholly up to their game.

That said, I hope you didn’t mind the pictures of camel meat processing and the like. A lot of you guys were a pleasure to have around. We look forward to returning the favor of the sweep in 2011.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm telling all my friends you said that.

You’ll never fit in now.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who the hell are you again?

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I almost did something VERY bad here

Instead I’ll just say We’re More Alike Than Different.

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

NTTAWWT

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Oct 11, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've been here since March of 2007, in 2 or 3 years we will talk.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, when I think of which group of RR users I associate with, it's you folks

Not many new users came along when I did, because the Reds sucked then.

by jsl413 on Oct 11, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

really, you associate with me

now you have a real problem!

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 11, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you wonder why people think we're cliquish, jeez

"just a couple of weeks ago a first year student in my program told me i was charming and charismatic, it was a guy, but the point still stands.: -- justin007000

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

that seems like an understatement

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Oct 11, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

after reading this craptastic excuse for journalism pre-sweep, i must say the MO RON that writes this thing got exactly what he deserved…the biggest slice of STFU humble pie ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Go Phightin Phils ahahahahahahhaha

by Brian Y in Championshipville, TX on Oct 12, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

i don't think anybody here pretends that this is journalism

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight... Schottzie"-Chris Sabo

by justin007000 on Oct 12, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Oct 13, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

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