HOF recap: Larkin falls short
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 2:21 PM EST
in History/Hall of Fame
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PrintAs expected, Barry Larkin did not garner enough votes for induction into the Hall of Fame, receiving 51.6% of the submitted ballots. Of course, this was his first year on the ballot and many writers typically hold off on voting for players in their inaugural year save for the true superheroes like Rickey Henderson. This is a respectable debut and puts him on the Ryne Sandberg track for enshrinement, IMO.
The BBWAA did elect Andre Dawson with 77.9% of the vote. Bert Blyleven fell five votes short with 74.2%, but he has two more years of eligibility to get them. Impressive considering he started with an uninspiring 17% in 1998, his first year on the ballot.
Next year a few interesting players gain eligibility, though none are locks for first-ballot induction. Jeff Bagwell and maybe Larry Walker should be, but neither had the career longevity typically associated with inner circle no-doubters. Kevin Brown has a case but was extremely unpopular with writers during his day. Rafael Palmeiro can only point to himself for what will surely be an uphill battle for induction. And speaking of which, look - it's Bret Boone on the ballot!
Next year is also Dave Parker's final shot. Cobra is a fairly marginal candidate but is just as deserving as recent inductee Jim Rice (Parker was probably feared just as much, if not more). He's unique in that he has two distinct peaks separated by a few empty years when he was plagued by a drug problem. His first peak, with Pittsburgh between '75 and '80, was outstanding. He was arguably the best player in baseball at the time. But it's all moot because the drugs and lack of durability will keep him out. Parker has plateaued at 15% and won't make the cut next year.
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The final ledger
Name Votes Pct.
Andre Dawson 420 77.9%
Bert Blyleven 400 74.2%
Roberto Alomar 397 73.7%
Jack Morris 282 52.3%
Barry Larkin 278 51.6%
Lee Smith 255 47.3%
Edgar Martinez 195 36.2%
Tim Raines 164 30.4%
Mark McGwire 128 23.7%
Alan Trammell 121 22.4%
Fred McGriff 116 21.5%
Don Mattingly 87 16.1%
Dave Parker 82 15.2%
Dale Murphy 63 11.7%
Harold Baines 33 6.1%
Andres Galarraga 22 4.1%
Robin Ventura 7 1.3%
Ellis Burks 2 0.4%
Eric Karros 2 0.4%
Kevin Appier 1 0.2%
Pat Hentgen 1 0.2%
David Segui 1 0.2%
Mike Jackson 0 0.0%
Ray Lankford 0 0.0%
Shane Reynolds 0 0.0%
Todd Zeile 0 0.0%
Others made larger gains
Bert – up 12%
Morris – up 8%
Raines – up 8%
Trammell – up 5%
One guy who surprises me is Mattingly. For a guy who played in New York and had a great peak, there’s an underwhelming level of support. I wouldn’t vote him in either, but I’m surprised. He gained four points this year.
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
Martinez getting 36% of votes is much better than I expected for him. Trammell isn’t moving, I think, which is a shame.
I’m encouraged that Larkin finished ahead of now-perrenial snubs like Trammell and Raines.
-j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
Yeah, I thought the DH issue would hold Martinez much lower
Not a bad start for him. Agree it looks dim for Trammell – he simply has too much ground to make up in five years. Especially with the candidate surge that will start in 2013.
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Pat Hentgen got a vote?
And David Segui?
Whoever voted for them should have their voting privileges revoked.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
Counting Nolan Ryan
8 people punched Robin Ventura.
by Brendanukkah on Jan 6, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I actually thought Ellis Burks would get more
dude was a damned solid hitter
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Todd Zeile isn't a Hall of Famer?
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Jan 7, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Junk
I know it was a long shot, but really thought Lark deserved to be first ballot.
Time for Opening Day yet??
by DocRam on Jan 6, 2010 2:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
no, but...
…in the mail today, I got a brochure advertising spring training games at Ed Smith Stadium. I guess the Orioles will be playing there now.
They’ve got special packages with airfare, rental car, hotel, and tickets.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
my folks got that too
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Jan 7, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Get out your pens! We have 232 letters to write!
If Alomar and Larkin didn’t get in this year, I don’t think Bagwell or Walker will get in next year. You know, the whole “first ballot” thing. That’s good for Barry, I think. Blyleven will get in next year, thanks to the ten wins and 152 strikeouts he’ll add to his career totals in 2010.
The 2012 class is pitiful, so there’s another opportunity for Larkin.
Dawson was one of my favorite players as a kid
WGN made me love such players as Ryne Sandberg (not Jewish!), Mark Grace, and The Hawk. i loved him as a kid, but kids are dumb.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 6, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
He wasn't exactly my favorite, but I remember being fascinated by him
because he was such a big dude. He seemed like he was 8 feet tall to me.
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
My favorite things about Parker:
1. When he flipped his glove downward after making a catch on a fly ball. As a kid, I thought that was the coolest.
2. The fact that when he was traded, he brought Jose Rijo in return (not to mention the immortal Tim Birtsas).
3. Didn't do much to hurt us in the World Series
by Brendanukkah on Jan 6, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
4. I'm an idiot
Apparently Parker left Oakland after 1989. I could have sworn he played in that World Series!
by Brendanukkah on Jan 7, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
don't be so hard on yourself.
Your post was entirely accurate. Parker didn’t hurt us at all in the WS. Nor did Babe Ruth or Ted Williams — those guys didn’t even get a hit! See, the Reds used to be good!
You’re a genius. Just let it shine.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
According to this
http://bases.nbcsports.com/2010/01/digging-into-the-hall-votes.html.php
5 people turned in blank ballots……we know dickface Mariotti was one…..but there were 4 more
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
we should keep a spreadsheet of the voters
and make voodoo dolls of the noes. or at least write them letters of support for barry over the next year.
I started making a Barry spreadsheet, but it's a daunting task because of the sheer number of HOF voters
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
That means
“Larkin played in Cincinnati.”
"Forehead by Party Brendamour’s"
by Ash on Jan 6, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
That means
Dan Coughlin thought his pen was an eye-gouging tool.
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
An oversight
His son convinced him that Barry deserves it, but it was after he submitted his ballot. At least he admits his error:
My son, John, who now lives in Cincinnati, says I overlooked Barry Larkin. I realize he’s right. Too late for this year.
I once wrote to a Philly Daily News writer about why he was wrong about Blyleven. His response was “that’s why pencils have erasers.” I think that was it.
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'm updating spreadsheet
did you start this before the vote to keep track? could the “maybe” column turn into “yes for next year” ?
Thanks
I started this a few weeks ago. Hopefully those maybes see the light. I’m also going to highlight a “no” if he says he’ll vote for Larkin next year.
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I sent an email to Tom Gage of Detroit
mostly asking how a player isn’t a first time ballot HOF’er. I was respectful no worries, I didn’t have a repeat Hal McCoy incident.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
There seems to be a fairly absurd standard for pitchers
Over the past ten years, it’s only been Eckersly, Sutter and Gossage.
If you’re not a starter or a guy who stayed healthy enough for 20+, seasons, you have to wrack up an arbitrary number (300) of a pretty worthless stat. In any case, you need to spend most of your time playing for pretty good teams who will afford you the chance to pad your winning PCTs or pitch one inning whenever your team has a lead at the end of the game.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 3:32 PM EST reply actions
What I'm saying is just a blanket statement that applies to the three they've let in
as well as those they’ve left out over that stretch (mostly Blyleven).
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
im with you
if 90% of the game is pitching, then 90% of the writers dont know anything about half of the game.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 6, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Berra'd
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
The distribution of HOF starting pitchers is really uneven
Tons of guys who peaked in the ‘60s -’70s but none so far who peaked in the ‘80s. That’s probably part of the Morris appeal since he (or Dave Stieb, I forget) had the most wins in the decade. But we’ll see a lot of starters enter the ballot in the next 2 to 6 years who either should be inducted or have a reasonable argument: Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, Schilling, Mussina, Pedro and Johnson.
by ken on Jan 6, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Of that group
I’d think Maddux, Glavine, Unit and Pedro will get in on the first try.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
Here's who I'd personally take over the next few years
2011:
Blyleven
Edgar Martinez
Larkin
Raines
Trammel
McGwire
Alomar
Bagwell
(That clears some of the backlog)
2012:
Olerud
Palmeiro
Juan Gonzalez
Larry Walker
Kevin Brown
2013:
Bonds
Piazza
Klesko
Schilling
Clemens
Wells
2014:
Maddux
Gagne
Glavine
Frank Thomas
Jim Edmonds
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not Klesko though
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
And Johnson is eligible in '15
right?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I say no on
Klesko and a huuuuuuuuuuuuge no on Edmonds. Keep that garbage out. Yes, I may have a personal vendetta against him, but that’s against the point.
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
Concede on Klesko
but I think Edmonds definitely has the chops.
.274/.377/.528 lifetime slash line. 6 Gold Gloves. 1,639 games in CF. 66.6 WAR lifetime (Sean Smith), ahead of Biggio, Alomar, McCovey, Killebrew, Winfield.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
One other thing on Edmonds
-Showboating jerk.
-Derp Award.
-Showboat.
-Jerk.
-Ex-St. Louis Cardinal.
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
"Derp Award"
i dont know what that is, but i so totally LOL’d
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 6, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Many of his AL years he was up against Griffey
and in the NL he was up against Andrew Jones.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
Also, I think I missed Biggio
He deserves to be in
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think McGwire ever makes it
too many writers like Hal.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
you could be right
Former Yankees beat writer (now Red Sox beat writer) Peter Abraham doesn’t think McGwire deserves to get in.
However, he did vote for Larkin.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
although maybe being back in the game will rehibilitate his image.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Jan 8, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Who I’m really curious about is Clemens. The steroids narrative has been almost exclusively about the HR explosion. The pitching side and affect on K rates has been ignored. It will be really interesting to see how much Clemens gets penalized. I’ll bet he doesn’t get in the first year, but enough of the punitive voters wise up in the second year.
The trend seems to be for toolsy OFers in the past few elections. Tiant, Dennis Martinez, Hershiser, Gooden, Saberhagen, Cone and Appier all had decent arguments, but none of them even sniffed 75%… was pitching just worse in the late-70s-early 80s or are they being unfairly weighed against the power-pitching physical freaks of the 90s?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 6, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Most of those guys didn't have the longevity
Hershiser, Gooden, Saberhagen, Mike Scott, and some of the other stars of the ‘80s had pretty short peaks, which is another point Jack Morris’ supporters highlight in discussing the “best pitcher of the decade” stuff. Martinez is a really good comp for Morris by innings and ERA but came a little bit earlier and doesn’t have the signature postseason moment.
The politics of pitcher voting is hard to figure out. Both Morris and Blyleven started out very poorly in HOF balloting – Morris got only 22% his first year, Blyleven was 18%. Each has picked up a lot support since. I think voters are more easily swayed by arguments for pitchers rather than position players because it’s harder to subjectively appreciate (and remember) good pitching. Whereas with position players, you more easily recall their style and skill. That’s how it is for me, at least.
Not as bad as bloody fanny pack.
(an inside joke with myself from my Austria choir trip)
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
Our guide was British. And an actor.
He has an IMDB Page.
And you’re just jealous.
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
Dude, I'm a band nerd
We get made fun of too.
And yes, I’m jealous…my best band trip was to Florida
by nycredsfan on Jan 6, 2010 7:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Trumpet
Ladies loved my triple tonguing
by nycredsfan on Jan 6, 2010 10:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
in my school
there were no guys who played flute. And even clarinet players were suspected of batting for the other team.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
When I started playing flute
I was in 4th grade and wanted to play trumpet or French Horn, but our band had too many trumpet players already, and I was too small to hold the French Horn. Thus, flute.
Thankfully, now, I play much more manly instruments.
"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."
I played drums
Because ladies love it when you beat them
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jan 7, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
so what
i have an IMDB page too. big whoop.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 6, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree on Schilling
He’s got a great sustained peak with postseason heroics. From ‘96 – ’04 he averaged 223 innings with a 141 ERA+. He’s got a historically low walk rate, especially for a power pitcher (K/BB rate during that time was well over 5). I know he’s a nut and the constant fawning over him in ‘04 was a little sickening, but he’s probably the greatest postseason pitcher of his generation (133 IP, 2.23 ERA). That gives him a big boost, IMO.
by ken on Jan 7, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Good for Andre Dawson - he is truly deserving of the HOF
Incompetents invariably make trouble for people other than themselves.
Larry Mcmurtry
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