Lonny Frey Profile

by JinAZ on Sep 17, 2009 2:14 PM EDT in History/Hall of Fame

We are very excited today to welcome JinAZ to our stable of writers. Justin is by far the most accomplished Reds-based sabermetric writer out there and we're looking forward to seeing his work on the pages of Red Reporter. He's not completely leaving behind his Basement Dwellers site for now, but expect to see more of his excellent writing here as well as at Beyond The Box Score. Welcome, Justin! - Slyde

From @CincinnatiReds today

Prior to tonight's game the #Reds will hold a moment of silence for Reds Hall of Famer Lonny Frey, who died Sunday at the age of 99.

I thought it would be worthwhile to do a quick profile on him. The data are in the format that I use in the WAR position reviews I occasionally post, like this one (that post includes definitions of all of these stats, but everything is corrected for park and era, and wOBA numbers are translated to modern baseball--average is 0.335).

Lonny Frey. Reds Hall of Fame.

Debut	Seasons	PA	Offense	wOBA	Fielding	Fld/700PA	PosAdj	WAR	WAR/700PA
1938	7	4045	49	0.349	89	15	37	30.4	5.3

Frey was purchased from the Chicago Cubs prior to his age-27 season in 1938. Previously at shortstop, he would go on to play almost exclusively at second base for the next seven seasons. He really blossomed in 1939 when he gave up switch-hitting and focused entirely on hitting form the left side. He put up two consecutive 6+ WAR seasons and helping lead the team to two consecutive World Series. He then followed with three consecutive 4 WAR seasons--all told, his time with the Reds was easily the best stretch of the three-time All Star's career.

By JAARF, he was a superb defender, routinely posting 10+ runs per season ratings throughout his career, which is a big part of his overall value. But he was also a fine hitter. He showed modest power for a middle-infielder, twice reaching 11 home runs in a season. But the majority of his offensive value came from his batting eye. With the Reds, he posted a 12% walk rate and an 0.358 OBP. And when he got on base, he could make things happen. He led the league in steals (with just 22!) in 1940, and 11 of his 49 offensive RAA with the Reds was due to his performance on the basepaths.

He was purchased back by the Chicago Cubs after the 1946 season, and retired two years later at 37 years old. I have him (or, rather, Rally has him) as the third-most valuable second baseman in Reds history by WAR.

RIP.

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Comments

Thanks for the welcome

And holy crap, “by far the most accomplished”? These people are in for one heck of a disappointment! :)
-j

My blog: Basement-Dwellers.com
Also: Beyond the Boxscore
Twittering: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Sep 17, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions

well, the bar's not exactly a high one

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Wait. Now I have to get used to two different Justins?

This will clearly be the greatest challenge of my young life.

Oh and, welcome. Who was the second most valuable 2B in reds history?

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Sep 17, 2009 2:39 PM EDT reply actions

Bid McPhee

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/m/mcphb101.htm
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcphebi01.shtml

With McPhee, it’s as much about longevity as production…but he ranks 15th among all MLB 2B’s as I’m defining them (primary position = position with the most games), so he had a lot of production no matter what measure.

If I get a chance tonight, I’ll post a WAR graph in this thread comparing the top-3 or so Reds 2B’s. There’s quite a dropoff below Frey.
-j

I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore
Red Reporter
Basement-Dwellers.com
Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Sep 17, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

why don't you put BP on that graph too

to add some context

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Sounds good

I’ll probably use Phillips’ data from FanGraphs, though, because for some reason Rally’s park factors and such absolutely kill Phillips. Plus TotalZone doesn’t like him either for some reason. I think FanGraphs is (at least mostly) right on Phillips and for some reason Rally’s missing badly. Every system misses on a few players here and there.
-j

I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore
Red Reporter
Basement-Dwellers.com
Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Sep 17, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Reds 2B WAR Graph

This is for these players’ entire careers, not just their time with the Reds. Graphs didn’t work very well otherwise:

Frey and McPhee were almost identical at their peak, with maybe a slight edge to Frey. McPhee had much better longevity, though he also played against a shallower talent pool.

Morgan, of course, is over the top awesomeness.

Brandon Phillips is a decent player, but he’s not on par with these guys. Although he will almost certainly add some width to his line before he retires, I don’t see him topping 5 WAR more than one more time…
-j

I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore
Red Reporter
Basement-Dwellers.com
Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Sep 17, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions

That really puts BP in perspective

I thought he’d be closer to McPhee and Frey. I’m surprised.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 18, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions

And I'm using FanGraphs data for him.

Rally’s WAR stuff barely has Phillips above replacement. I think Rally’s GABP park factor corrections for HR’s are a bit too severe, and that’s where most of Phillips’ offensive value comes from. But maybe I’m wrong and Rally’s right. In that case, Phillips would be a disaster.

I will say, though, that when we plot his entire career (once it’s over), his line won’t fall off nearly as quickly. All the horribleness at the 5th season onward was with Cleveland, and those will get pushed much further to the right. But my guess is that the top 2-3 seasons won’t change a whole lot.

Also, in his defense, Phillips is playing against a much higher level of competition than Frey & McPhee (and, to a lesser extent, Morgan). 2 WAR is an average player in his league, so Brandon’s usually been above-average for the Reds. Brandon’s good, he’s just not as good compared to his league as the other three.
-j

I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore
Red Reporter
Basement-Dwellers.com
Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Sep 18, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions

holy crap.

i’d never seen morgan’s graph before…

by GrooveLeg on Sep 18, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions

12 WAR seems downright mythical

by Brendanukkah on Sep 18, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions

That's getting towards Bonds territory.

I saw a replay of the 1975 World Series Game 6 a few months back on ESPN Classic. Morgan was treated by the announcers as a freaking god.
-j

I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore
Red Reporter
Basement-Dwellers.com
Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Sep 18, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

could we just call you Bruce, then?

by bbjones on Sep 18, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions

If you can't tell these two Justins apart, I've got a Gold Glove award I'd like to show you

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on Sep 18, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

I feel like I'm Averman

And Adam Banks just joined my team.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 17, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions

nope

youre Goldberg. im (if it wasnt obvious) Fulton Reed. BASH BROTHERS!!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 17, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Do I get to be Emilio Estevez?

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

you can be Julie the Cat

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 17, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah, I don't get it

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

google it Grandpa Pants

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 17, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

why don't you just get off my lawn before I call the cops!

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

alright alright fine

im goin’. but…uh, i wouldnt open your mailbox. best to just let the mailman have that one.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 17, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I think it's going to be a long time...

…until I can even begin to catch all the pop culture references here.

Heck, I don’t even know if this IS a pop culture reference. :)
-j

I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore
Red Reporter
Basement-Dwellers.com
Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Sep 17, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I had to google it

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I suppose this means that we need to get our noses out of spreadsheets and go watch some TV

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

you guys are so old

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 17, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Drew Stubbs has home runs in back-to-back games

and has a .269/.345/.500 line over his last 6 games. Sounds like he needs a day off.

Tonight’s lineup:
McDonald 8
Janish 6
Votto 3
Phillips 4
Rolen 5
Gomes 7
Bruce 9
Hanigan 2
Maloney 1

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:34 PM EDT reply actions

good thing there is a new Office tonight

so i wont be stuck watching this miscarriage of a baseball team.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

and Community debuts

though I’ve already watched it. It’s okay, but most pilots are a bit weak since they have to do a bunch of character introductions and stuff.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Sep 17, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Also the season premiere of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

I picked up the Season 4 DVD yesterday for twenty bucks. Pretty psyched about that.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 17, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

it's been on my list for a while

i just havent started watching it. we just started getting True Blood on teh Netflix and are watching that now. it’s good.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 17, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Never really got the whole vampire thing

I still maintain the only vampire book worth reading is Preacher, and the vampire is only a secondary character, and is basically just Shane MacGowan anyway.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 17, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions