Now I'm a fan of the 154 game season. At least it would be over quicker. Reds lose, 6-3.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 4, 2009 10:41 PM EDT
in Game Threads
87 comments
Joe Nuxhall Memorial Honorary Star of the Game
Tom Gorzelanny. 7.1 innings of three hit, one run ball, with a walk and six strikeouts. He also went 1-3 with a walk and an RBI in his Cubs debut.
Key Plays
- Kosuke Fukudome, the first batter of the game, hit a home run. If you didn't think the Reds were done for that point, you have more optimism than I.
- Johnny Cueto actually shut down the Cubs after that, until the sixth inning. With one out, Aramis Ramirez doubled and Jake Fox was hit by a pitch. Alfonso Soriano singled and the bases were loaded. Cueto struck out Mike Fontenot, and there was a glimmer of hope that Cueto would escape unharmed. But Willy Taveras couldn't come up with a diving catch off the bat of Koyie Hill. The hit went for a double and scored Ramirez and Fox. The pitcher, Gorzelanny, singled next to drive in Soriano. Dusty brought in Danny Ray Herrera, who gave up a hit to Fukudome, and just like that the Cubs had tacked on four more runs.
- Derrek Lee homered off of Nick Masset to begin the seventh inning to finish off the Cubs scoring.
- Finally in the eighth inning, the Reds decided they should do something offensively, instead of just something offensive. Craig Tatum got hit by a pitch, and then Willy Taveras got his second hit of the game (!) to move Craiggers to second. Then Joey Votto, as he is wont to do, singled to drive in a run. God bless that man.
- The "comeback" continued in the ninth inning, as Jonny Gomes got hit by a pitch, and then new Red Wladimir Balentien atoned for some of his suspect fielding with his first home run as a Red. 6-3, and with two outs, Tatum hit a double to tantalizingly prolong the rally. For the second night in a row, Willy Taveras found himself in the Javier Valentin Memorial Last Out of the Game position. And he did his predecessor proud with a ground ball to the second baseman. Reds lose 8 in a row.
Too lazy to post a win probability graph. Besides, the win was never probable.
Other Notes
- This 8 game losing streak is the longest for the Reds since 2005. All 8 of these losses have come at home.
- Cueto is 0-5 with a 9.85 ERA in his last six games.
- You can blame it on the rain if you want, but there were only 17,992 in attendance, and most of those were Cubs fans.
- With Cueto's loss, the Reds only have two starters that have a .500 record or better - Bronson Arroyo (10-10) and Edinson Volquez (4-2).
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Nice recap nukkah
I think that there is need of a new manager at Redsville
and I’ve got just the guy…Presenting
Lou Pinella
Oh wait that’s Uncle Walt …he’s a sneaky old bastard.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 4, 2009 10:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
at least LLM usually did something memorable with the last at bat
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on Aug 4, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Alas, poor baby
She’s never getting out…
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 4, 2009 10:55 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
...With our powers combined...
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
by Gapper on Aug 5, 2009 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh, LLM Memorial
but Sandra Bullock is hot? I’m going to have to beg to differ on that one.
by Cy Schourek on Aug 4, 2009 10:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
charlize threon is hot
sandra bullock is warm
"I piss excellence"
by obc2 on Aug 5, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
i mean, sure she’s not unattractive, but to say she is “hot” is downright foolish.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 5, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob and Walt just have no idea
Or maybe it’s just Fay, who happens to be the only stooge who gets to speak with the BobWalt, and he doesn’t get what they are saying.
But apparently, Walt said something to Fay indicating that the Reds will hang on to Arroyo and Harang and, with Volquez under the knife, they will make a move in the offseason to acquire another starting pitcher.
Can he be serious? We’re already thinking about pitching, while zero effort in the last 12 months has gone into, ahem, a SHORTSTOP or a LEFT FIELDER? Or maybe now that we have Scott Rolen’s big bat, we can sign Gonzalez, Taveras, and Nix to extensions. Let’s just hope that the effort to acquire another starting pitcher is “priority number one,” because we know that won’t go anywhere.
by Brian B on Aug 4, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Arroyo should absolutely by dealt at all costs
It’s the most effective, most feasible way to clear salary. It would be a dream if they could dump the majority of Coco’s contract, but it seems clear they will be unable and/or unwilling to do so.
As Fay alludes to, unless the Jays really coughed up in the Rolen deal, the Reds have very little payroll flexibility to try and plug several gaping pits of despair in their lineup.
Arroyo’s replacement might have to be bargain bin – a cut above Josh Fogg – or a gamble on Travis Wood. Something like: Harang, Cueto, Bailey, Owings, Brett Meyers/Wood. Any money spent to get a proven pitcher greater than or equal to Arroyo will probably ensure a retread manning SS and/or LF.
And what if the Reds are in the red this season and the payroll diminishes? They need to start seriously considering the Pirates’ model or they’re going to be beggared by veteran contracts. Consider trading BP in the offseason and shrinking the payroll down to nothing.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 4, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are focusing way too much on salary.
Do you really think that if Arroyo’s salary is “cleared” that they will go out and sign someone better? Do you really trust that they’ll take what’s invested in Arroyo and not give it to Jeff Suppan instead?
As for the offense, we all know they have talent in the minors who can do better than what we’re looking at now. Yet Walt will likely go out and spend four or five times what Stubbs will cost to get proven below average talent. And that’s IF he decides to address the offense at all.
by Brian B on Aug 4, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure they have the minor league talent ready to play major league SS in 2010 at SS and LF
Valaikia’s calling card is his bat. Everything I read about him suggests he would be a better offensive minded second baseman then a weak-armed, offensive minded SS. And, his bat was hitting .200 last I heard. Cozart needs a season in Triple A, although his defense is supposed to ML caliber already.
Around these parts, you’ll hear many a person claim Heisey is ready for the show in 2010, but we don’t know that for sure. I’d personally rather see a move to get an actual LF, rather than count on a kid contributing (I counted on Jay this year and that was a mistake).
I don’t see the talent available in the minors to help this team next year. Sadly, I imagine they will continue to suck until, at the earliest, 2011 and that’s if kids in the minors perform and the money saved from the end of Arroyo/Harang contracts is spent well.
Color me pessimistic.
Also, color me against the Pirates re-building. There is enough young talent on this team to build a core of a winning team (Cueto, Volquez, BP, Votto, Bruce, assorted bullpen chaff) with the help of average contributions from other positions. Problem is, there isn’t anyone contributing on an average basis for this team at the present moment. Everything else is just a giant black hole of suckitude.
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree about complete rebuilding
The problem with shitty teams trying to rebuild is that you don’t have any good players to trade away to bring good pieces back. No-one we could trade (except our cheap players like Votto or Bruce, but we wouldn’t trade them if we’re rebuilding) would bring anything of value back.
I read something the other day (it might have been linked to from the Reposter) that only 2 of the prospects the Pirates got in all of those deals are now in their top 10 prospects. Basically they traded away their whole team and got a bunch of complementary type pieces back. That’s probably what would happen to us if we went into total rebuilding mode.
Re: Heisey, I agree that his bat probably isn’t good enough for LF. It would be for CF, but Stubbs has the inside track on that. You need top hitters for corner outfield spots and Heisey probably would barely be average, but at least that’s better than what we’ve been getting.
Re: SS, I think they are promoting Cozart to AAA this month to give him some time to see what he can do. He has good plate patience and a bit of pop, so even if he only hit .240ish his OBP would probably be decent and he’d play stellar defense. If not that, I love the idea of putting Frazier at 2B and moving BP to SS.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slyde and I had this discussion the other day and we agree with you
He can get on base at a 300 clip (and he’s the only one in the line-up who does that) then his defense deserves a shot. Rafael Belliard played in the majors for years after all.
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he's counting on the farm?
Stubbs? Heisey? Sutton?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 4, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't trust that they'll do that. Do you?
Why haven’t they done that yet? Didn’t trust Hanigan. Didn’t trust Dickerson. If anything, they’ll announce a press conference to introduce Xavier Nady. And Craig Counsell will be signed in case Bruce “isn’t ready.” And get ready for Juan Castro, part III.
by Brian B on Aug 4, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they might
If only because of the money situation.
While it’s true they didn’t trust Hanigan and Dickerson, neither Hanigan nor Dickerson were projected to be more than reserve players. Stubbs was their #1 draft pick. I think he’ll get a decent shot at least, like Bruce and Votto did.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 4, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they're still mad he doesn't hit for the power they imagined he would
and until he does, they aren’t moving him to the 40 man
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'll be waiting a long time
He changed his swing the last couple of years to cut down on Ks, which has raised his average but sapped him of a lot of his power.
He used to have a crazy long swing that generated that power, but this shortened swing only seems good for 3-5 HRs a year. But with a .368 OBP, I don’t mind that from my CF.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's what I read too, so I can't out why they're waiting
Why this team thinks their CF has to be either Mantle/Griffey or Taveras/Patterson is a mystery to me. If he can play the defense and take a walk, well, CF is a defensive position! Bring him up.
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ceasar Geronimo
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 5, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they have a choice
They have to put him on the 40-man, or they’ll lose him in the Rule 5 draft.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 5, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Stubbs will start in CF next year
No matter the money, Taveras has played himself out of a starting role. I doubt they get rid of him, but he’s not going to start next season.
The Rolen deal goes against what I thought was the plan for a number of reasons, but it is consistent in one regard: it replaces a poor defensive player with a good one. If WJ continues to make defense a priority, then there’s no way he sits on a 25 year old CF who is arguably the best fielding outfielder in baseball.
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Aug 5, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's the 3rd best defensive CF in the minors
according to TotalZone. There are obvious issues with the metric, so don’t take the number too literally, but he’s doing pretty well for himself.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 5, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I looked at the guy who's first on that list
and he was worth -11 runs total his first three seasons, then jumped to +13 (only in CF, he was +6 also in LF) last year when he was promoted, then +29 this year. That seems a little screwy, as does the fact that he’s more than twice as good at home as on the road. Stubbs on the other hand, has been always been a + CFer, but even his stats are screwy. In 2007 in Dayton he was +9 at home and -9 on the road.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
keep in mind that park factors also include the scorer
Minor league Total Zone is built off of Minor League Gameday data, and hit locations are entered manually. So there is a gigantic error bar on this data. You are right to look towards consistency more than anything. A player with erratic season-to-season numbers is likely neither his peak nor his valley. However, a player that is consistently good or bad is probably close to what the numbers say he is.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 5, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walt always tells the truth
TRUST ME – I KNOW HOW THE GAME IS REALLY PLAYED
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 4, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not drinking the kool aid
One of my favorite Family guy moments.
by Brian B on Aug 4, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was brutal in person
Reds fans were badly outnumbered and I was hit with a few peanuts tonight. Seriously they are lucky I’m a civilized gentleman from northwest ohio and not from south Milwaukee. All for simply wearing reds gear… In Cincinnati.
The cubs fans a few rows back were some of the classiest individuals I’ve ever encountered
I have robot insurance.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Aug 4, 2009 11:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
that's why i try to never go to a game vs the cubs
and the one i did go to (because my friend is a cubs fan) was the f-ing 14 inning game
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on Aug 5, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least i saw a proposal tonight, honestly.
This Cubs fan couple about 4 rows back of me decided it was time to get engaged… before the top of the 4th in their full Cubs gear at another team’s home stadium. Seriously. It started and all I could think about was this list and the fact that theirs was a marriage of love, a bad baseball game, bratwursts, and annoying fans. I’m not sure what the significance of the top of the 4th in a 1-0 game with most of the seating empty and no one really paying attention, but hey, congrats?
I later heard the now-enagaged doofus telling his buddies that “yeah, you guys were ragging on me so hard at the bar the other night since XXXX and XXXX (some of said doofus’ friends’ friends) got engaged, that i figured this was as good a place as any.”
I have robot insurance.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Aug 5, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cincinnati -
“As good a place as any!”
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 5, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah if i were a woman and a man asked me to marry him at a baseball game
yeah no.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Aug 5, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he was wearing his very best Sammy Sosa jersey.
Again, seriously.
I have robot insurance.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Aug 5, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm torn between anger, and wanting to see the entire coaching staff fired
and apathy, thinking that it wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference.
Was our hitting this bad when Chris Chambliss was shitcanned?
"I heard he punched Cowboy in the face, grabbed his own balls and said: 'Clutch this.'" ~ obc
by Ash on Aug 4, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
fire them all
‘Lethargic doesn’t even begin to describe how they looked tonight.
I have robot insurance.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Aug 4, 2009 11:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we used to hit home runs then
by Brendanukkah on Aug 4, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss Adam Dunn.
"I heard he punched Cowboy in the face, grabbed his own balls and said: 'Clutch this.'" ~ obc
by Ash on Aug 4, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on Aug 5, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boy, the Reds made Gorzelanny
look like a star. Terrible performance overall.
I was hoping for a win, which would cap off the night I got the sweetest ticket ever for the Reds game. A buddy of mine called this morning and asked if I wanted to go as he had an extra ticket for the KeyBank luxury suite (Founders Suite 101, directly behind home plate). And the ticket was free.
So at least I didn’t pay a cent to watch that garbage as I enjoyed free pizza, free soft pretzels and free beer. Oh, and I was sheltered from the all those unwashed Cubs fans. I swear it was at least 2-1 Cubs fans there tonight. How sad.
And please fire Brook Jacoby. That offense was just pitiful tonight. At least Wladimir got his first Reds homer.
"Tigers love pepper...they hate cinnamon.
by cesarhernandez on Aug 4, 2009 11:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
jacoby has griffey and dunn to thank for setting him up so nice
cuz he definitely wouldn’t have a job if it weren’t for this organization.
by GrooveLeg on Aug 5, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does everyone blame Brook Jacoby. Who on this team is SUPPOSED to hit
Brook Jacoby can’t teach me to hit, because I lack talent and am always on the internet. Likewise, he can’t teach Willy to hit, or Rosales, or Nix, or Janish or Agon or any of the people on this team who have never hit and never will hit.
The problem is roster construction and injuries, not instruction
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
however, we know someone ike Bruce has tons of talent
but it did not appear that any adjustments were being made. I don’t think Bruce is difficult to work with, so I have to infer that Jacoby isn’t getting the job done.
I know players slump, it happens, but Bruce was just falling into a black hole.
by Red_Poodle on Aug 5, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also know Johnny Gomes had an OPS of .600 last year and is now 202 points higher...maybe Brook Jacoby helped him?
You can’t hold one player’s disappointing season against the hitting coach before you hold it against the player. I trust Jay’s numbers in the minors, but the fact remains he has the majority of two major league seasons to hit and he hasn’t. I think he will eventually, but you can ask Wladimir Balentin about how a prospect can move to suspect pretty quickly.
In short, I’m not claiming Jay sucks, but I will maintain he has not proved anything in the majors (except he can throw)
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's proved he has pretty good power
18 HRs in half a season at the age of 22 is pretty damn impressive.
My contention with Jacoby (and Dusty) is their backwards approach to plate discipline. I get so tired of seeing opposing starters make it into the 8th inning on 93 pitches because our team is hacking away the whole time. That CAN be taught, and it isn’t, and I blame those two for that.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Beane opined all through Moneyball that it couldn't be taught; that it was a skill
Obviously, you know I agree about Jay. My faith is shaken, but I haven’t lost and I think he and Joey are the cornerstones you build a nice offense on.
I wonder if plate discipline can be taught….
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can at least be encouraged
I think the point of Moneyball was that walks are just as much up to the hitter as the pitcher, whereas the general wisdom before was they were due to pitcher wildness only.
You can see examples throughout the minors of guys improving their walk rates and decreasing their K rates as they progress through the system. That would indicate it can be taught at least a little.
Maybe by the time guys reach the majors they are more entrenched in their approach and it’d be harder to teach, but it doesn’t seem like plate discipline is even encouraged by the Reds.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your last paragraph is the correct conclusion
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
somewhat
there are plenty of cases of players taking better control of the strike zone. The problem is that it is not an easy thing to do in the majors when a pitcher can throw the exact same pitch, but 6 inches further out after hitting the strike zone. Some minor leaguers can do that, but not with the consistency with which you’ll see it in the Majors.
Approaches can always be changed though. Hitters do it all of the time. Otherwise, you’d never see hitters get better as they age.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 5, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Discipline is not a gift that a of people are 'born' with, but it is a skill that can be learned or improved upon by anyone willing to to work at it.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 5, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.254 .314 .453 is pretty darn good hitting for a rookie
And this year Bruce increased his walk rate and decreased his strikeout rate. The biggest problems he’s had this year is a tendency to pull everything( there was a great breakdown of it by Frank Robinson in the booth during the civil rights game weekend), and he has been hitting too many fly-balls (one cause is holding his back elbow almost vertical, causing him to uppercut the ball).
"My brain is almost the size of normal human being," he said. "Almost. Real pleased with that." -Scott Rolen
by RedsMasochist on Aug 5, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs to be traded
At least Arroyo and Harang pitch every 5 days
Cordero pitched like 8 innings in July and is one of the highest paid players on this team, that’s fucking ridiculous.
Trade CoCo, Weathers, Rhodes, keep Arroyo, Harang
Hopefully they save enough money with Cordero to actually obtain of the the good/decent LF on the FA market. Move Phillips to SS, put Frazier at 2B and Stubbs in CF I don’t care if they hit .200 all fucking year, it will still be more fun than watching old men hit .200 all fucking year.
by Dave from Louisville on Aug 5, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that I'm saying it's not a good idea to move his salary
But blaming Coco for the number of innings he’s pitched in July is ridiculous. This team hasn’t gotten him anything close to a lead to close out. He’s pitched 10.1 innings since July 1. He pitched 11 innings in June, 12 in May, and 9 in April. Not to mention he’s one of the few Reds that actually plays well. He’s got a 259 ERA+. Yes, he makes too much money for a reliever, but that’s not his fault. This season, Coco should be fucking above reproach.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 5, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone's saying Coco is to blame
But rather, it doesn’t make any sense to have a top-tier closer on a bottom-tier team… trade him to a contender and let them get value out of his talent, let us get some prospects and salary relief
by Nasty N8 on Aug 5, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
likewise
I am a huge fan of Harang, but I think 1. he deserves to be on a team that will give him run support and 2. he would get a decent return and 3. im afraid that he may go on a clubhouse killing spree if his Reds career continues as it has for the last 2 years
Scratch that, as long as Harang starts with the coaching staff, I’m OK with him staying here
by Nasty N8 on Aug 5, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was
The Pirates’ reason for trading Mike Gonzalez. If you never have a lead, why do you need a closer?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 5, 2009 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty should use him more
He’s addicted to the closer model and, instead should use Coco in high leverage situations during losing streaks, instead of lesser pitchers
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moving Coco, Weathers, and Rhodes and keeping Harang and Arroyo is an asinine idea.
I’m all about cutting payroll, but if you trade the whole bullpen, you need to spend more money to get relief pitching. By not picking up Weathers’ option, you save $3.3M, and trading Harang or Arroyo frees up at least $11M. If you’re trying to cut costs, I’d start there.
As Brendan said, Coco’s innings count is completely out of his control. He’s done what’s asked of him, and is one of the last guys you should be ranting about.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Aug 5, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will be very tough to move Cordero
He makes 12M for the next two years and has a limited no-trade clause. He’ll probably ask for the 12M club option for 2012 to be picked up in exchange for waiving the no-trade.
Since he’s actually been pretty good, we should treat his salary like the sunk cost it is.
by ken on Aug 5, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the recap
it’s pretty ugly work now. Glad to see Wladimir get on the board. It would be a nice change in fate if he turned out to be a homerun bomber now that he’s with us.
Just checked out the highlights on the Reds homepage and caught Votto’s RBI single. “God bless that man” is right. Took away the shutout (why is it always a shutout until the late innings these days?).
Side note, aftr all the mustache talk of Chris and Thom, anybody think this team could use some slump breaking facial hair changes? Some hockey beards perchance?
by Red_Poodle on Aug 5, 2009 12:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to see Danny Ray grow facial hair!
Hell, Rosales too!
by Brendanukkah on Aug 5, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bronson needs a huge mustache, Rolly Fingers style
I would pay Rosales 50 bucks to grow a stache.
by Red_Poodle on Aug 5, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is danny ray even old enough to grow facial hair?
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on Aug 5, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has DHR passed through puberty yet?
Painful as all this is right now..just wait until September and and all of the callups get their shots…brutal
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 5, 2009 12:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jacoby is the devil.
He just broke up a Jose Rijo no-hitter with a 7th inning single in a game of RBI Baseball 3. Man, the Reds are sweet in that game.
by Geki on Aug 5, 2009 1:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Best case scenario:
Lidge continues to suck, and we pull off a deal that sends Coco to them through waivers. With his salary, he will probably be pretty easy to get through waivers, but from our perspective, it doesn’t really matter if someone else claims him – getting his salary off the books for next year is all that really matters.
Coco is like a mansion we thought we’d be able to afford, but we can’t cover the mortgage anymore, and we’ll sell him for free as long as someone else takes over the payments. This team would be much better off spending that money on groceries and clean underwear (SS and LF).
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
by Gapper on Aug 5, 2009 1:36 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
*It should be obvious, but I never explicitly said it – I meant to say send him to the Phillies.
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
by Gapper on Aug 5, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could have some patience
His full no-trade clause is over after this season.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 5, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need
you really think he’d veto a trade to the Phils?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 5, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lose your best bullpen pitcher for nothing?
That would seem to be a huge mistake
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way
You’re losing your best bullpen pitcher who pitches the ninth inning in games you already have a lead in (not happening real often with this offense). In exchange you get Twelve million dollars in each of the next two seasons to get some guys in here so we might actually have a lead in the ninth. Closer by committee sucks, but it’s better than having the maytag repairman in the bullpen financially hamstringing the Reds.
"My brain is almost the size of normal human being," he said. "Almost. Real pleased with that." -Scott Rolen
by RedsMasochist on Aug 5, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, which is why you trade him. You don't lose an All-Star for nothing
just cuz you’re you’re cheap, don’t mean you’re stupid.
Most everyone in the known Universe is fine trading him, but the idea you would just let someone claim him on waivers and let him go is….well, I don’t think well-thought out.
Personally, I loathe closers and their over-rated stat. Closer by cheap committee seems ideal to me
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You get something for him if you can
But if you can’t get anything worthwhile, you weigh his salary and likely performance with this team going forward vs. what you can do with that money. The Reds only gave up cash to get him. To lose him for cash (savings) would not be such a big deal in my opinion. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and improve your team through tough decisions like this.
"My brain is almost the size of normal human being," he said. "Almost. Real pleased with that." -Scott Rolen
by RedsMasochist on Aug 5, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also the lesser of two evils
Which is worse: Having him on the books the next two years to the tune of 24 mil, or having that money to spend elsewhere? I’d love to get Matt LaPorta back for him, but I’d rather give him away than have to pay him the next two years.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way, you and NYC are crazy. At the very least, when he walks you get the draft choices you gave up for him
In the end, having this conversation is silly, because no one’s picking up that waiver claim for fear the Reds would do that.
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2 draft picks are 2 years down the road
Even if it were this season, $24 million dollars for 2 picks plus the money they would take to sign is more crazy than NYC and myself put together.
"My brain is almost the size of normal human being," he said. "Almost. Real pleased with that." -Scott Rolen
by RedsMasochist on Aug 5, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know, I'm pretty crazy
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As opposed to giving up your best reliever for nothing
and just shrugging and muttering “sunk costs” and moving on?
On a different note, what makes either of you imagine this team could spend 24 million in the right way?
There are no good SS free agents (the best is Scutaro) and the left field free agents aren’t exactly the sort of folks you throw 24 million at (see below). I mean, Boston will will re-sign Bay and the Cards will sign Holliday. Otherwise, that list ain’t pretty
Left fielders
Garret Anderson (38)
Marlon Anderson (36)
Jason Bay (31)
Emil Brown (35)
Carl Crawford (28) – $10MM club option with a $1.25MM buyout
Johnny Damon (36)
David Dellucci (36)
Cliff Floyd (37)
Matt Holliday (30)
Jacque Jones (35)
Gabe Kapler (34)
Greg Norton (37)
Wily Mo Pena (28)
Manny Ramirez (38) – $20MM player option
Dave Roberts (38)
Fernando Tatis (35)
Getting rid of Coco via trade is fine, of course.
And, NYC is crazy with his man-crush on Frazier and all, but he’s crazy in the bestest way possible
by timb116 on Aug 5, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two words:
Willy Mo
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Aug 5, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd for subprime mortage reference
Bloop
by justin007000 on Aug 5, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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