How Will Rolen Fit In?

by Red_Poodle on Aug 2, 2009 1:17 AM EDT

I just read Mark Sheldon's article about Rolen's arrival. Here is the link:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090801&content_id=6189652&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

It all sounded nice (Midwest and CIncinnati love). It also sounded like the players were willing to make concessions wih no trouble at all (Bruce lost his double locker). However it made me wonder, how long will this good feeling last? Based on what some RR contributors have said, Rolen can cause trouble in the club house.

My question, simply (to ignore some of the other pressing questions we all have), is how do you think Rolen will ultimately fit in here? Will he gel with the others and bring the leadership Walt claims he can? (I think we've all questioned what exactly is meant by that). Or will he be a source of more problems and ill will? It's early, but since things are going so bad at the moment, I'm interested in complete speculation on the future lol.

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These guys are professionals in a job where getting moved from team to team is commonplace

Whether it is moving from rookie ball to A to AA etc or getting traded from one organization to another. Point being – Rolen seems to want to be in cincinnati and even though he apparantly can be a difficult guy to work with, methinks that he’ll fit in just fine.

Now as far as how dusty uses him, that’s another story. Rolen has a good BA and OBP, he should be ahead of Votto and BP in the BO…you know so they have someone to drive home and create this thing called an ‘RBI’…
But Dusty will fuck this up because he’so out of touch…point here being Rolen may fit OK but if he’s poorly utilized then friction may develop between Dusty and him.

At least Ihope so.

One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin

by Madville on Aug 2, 2009 7:52 AM EDT reply actions

Friction between Dusty and & Rolen...

I never thought of this, but if it’s true that Jock has such a man-crush on Rolen, and he and Dusty ‘clash’ for whatever reason…well, maybe that’ll be Dusty’s ticket out of town?

I’m just grasping for straws, I know, but a man can dream.

by DocRam on Aug 2, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions

interesting that Bruce had a double locker

Studly prospect though he was, it’s usually the veterans who get the double lockers. I wonder if Votto has one?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Aug 2, 2009 8:16 AM EDT reply actions

I was wondering that too

It ahould say something about how the season is going when who has what loocker just got more interesting

by Red_Poodle on Aug 2, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Bruce and Votto are the veterans...

At least on the hitting side of things.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Aug 2, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Yea

If you hit a ball you’re a veteran in Cincinnati

Alex has a 1/4 locker. Its more like a cubby hole you get in kindergarten for your shoes.

by Excalib8 on Aug 2, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Did Bruce have a leather recliner in that double locker?

"I piss excellence"

by obc2 on Aug 2, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions

If so, someone needs to tell P Doc

by timb116 on Aug 2, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought about that

When Bruce came up, wasn’t he purposely given a locker next to Griffey, for mentorship purposes or something like that? That would explain the double locker, probably.

by ThePensive on Aug 2, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions

This doesn't exactly fit here, but whatever.

Jeff Passan has a long, rambling column over at yahoo about how Ricciardi should be fired for not moving Halladay, but he gives him almost no credit for fleecing the Reds on the Rolen deal. Huh.

Let me write out a formal proof for you.

by Gray on Aug 2, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions

i maintain the Jays didnt exactly fleece the Reds

Has anyone taken a peek at the Jays SB Nation site? I wonder if they are thrilled with the trade.

Remember how the last Big Trade turned out in the long run.

"I piss excellence"

by obc2 on Aug 2, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Reds got fleeced.........

Terrible trade. Will go down in history as one of the worst all-time.

Walt wanted to get rid of EE so badly that he lost his pants trading him away. Why throw in Zach? I’m still pissed off they traded him.

by Dude Rock on Aug 2, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Getting all three for Rolen = fleecing.

No debate.

Let me write out a formal proof for you.

by Gray on Aug 2, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Let's look at this from the BJs' perspective.

This is a lot like the Dunn or Griffey trades: take a guy who is not a long-term piece (in this case, he wanted out) and flip him for prospects. Both of those worked out well for us, and that’s the kind of deal we should have been looking for. Instead, we were on the other side of this one.

And for their troubles, they didn’t get money, but they got a serviceable third baseman and two promising arms. For an aging guy who wanted out anyway.

They fleeced the Reds.

Let me write out a formal proof for you.

by Gray on Aug 2, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

i got a fleece when i subscribed to ESPN: The Magazine

"I piss excellence"

by obc2 on Aug 2, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Where you invited to a pizza party with Ochocinco and others?

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans

by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 2, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Were, even.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans

by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 2, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions

rec'd

Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,

by 'tHan on Aug 2, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not sure about the fleecing since I doubt neither Stewart nor Roenicke will have big MLB impacts

but there were two Baseball Prospectus authors who referred to it as the worst trade of a deadline. Mainly for the getting older and more expensive for a team neither of them believes will compete in 2010

by timb116 on Aug 2, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure, anything can happen with prospects

But Roenicke has already shown that he has the stuff to pitch in a MLB bullpen right now, and has shown that he could be a closer in the future. Stewart’s a little bit harder to project because he’s farther away, but based on past results and what scouts have to say about him, if he continues to produce at the level he has, he’ll be in a MLB rotation someday.

It’s easy to say that “this won’t probably happen” and discount prospects like they’re all a dime a dozen, but the entire point of scouting and player development is to project how prospects will perform in the majors. If everyone has the view that prospects are worth little, then having scouts is pointless, and it wouldn’t have mattered to Toronto what pitching prospect they got back. The reason they picked Stewart is because the scouts that they had look at him think that he has potential to be a major leaguer, more than anyone else in the Reds organization.

My point is that the “who cares if we trade prospects because we don’t know what they’ll do in the big leagues” view is tired. We may not know exactly what they’ll do, but you can say the same thing about major league players as well. In every case, we have an idea. And the idea we get from Zach Stewart is that he should be a good MLB pitcher someday.

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on Aug 2, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Just quoting the BP authors.

Doubt doesn’t equal “I think they suck” or will never be good".

Doubt means most pitching prospects don’t pan out. It’s why a good organization collects bunches of them and sees which ones do pan out. But, it’s also why pitching prospects often hit another organization and their third year until they turn into Gavin Floyd or Joe Nathan or Edinson Volquez. They are amongst the least predictable commodities in the universe. So, again, giving them up is immaterial to the fact the Reds got older and more expensive when they should building a younger, cheaper core to compete. If the prospects work out, then the trade is even worse.

Right now, I’m not too fond of the trade. If Zack Stewart turns into Dave Stewart three years from now and not BJ Ryan, then I will be VERY disappointed with the trade.

So, without losing the arms the move is a head scratcher and seeing a national publication I respect have two guys, especially Joel Sheehan, call it the worst trade of the deadline was sort of deflating.

PS I do think it’s important to remember three times in the past, Walt has dealt “can’t miss prospects” for major talent: McGwire, Rolen, and Larry Walker and those prospects did not exactly succeed (except Ryan Ludwig, who ironically became valuable six plus years later). Maybe Walt knows something about those prospects that we do not?

by timb116 on Aug 2, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions

1) there are a lot of commodities in the universe

2) if you ever communicate or meet with Joe Sheehan, don’t call him Joel

3) Ludwick became successful because he stayed healthy

by ol Pete on Aug 2, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Joe wants me to call him Joel

because it was my pet name for him when we dated. He broke my heart

by timb116 on Aug 2, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

.....and thus the Reds continue to not develop starting pitching......

Hard to project minor league starters as major leaguers. But it’s funny how in love everyone is with Jay Bruce and projects him as the starting RFer for the next 10 years……..he flew through the minors…….yet has sucked offensively other than his original hot start. Zach Stewart flew through the minors faster than Homer Bailey, yet he’s labeled a probable bust? I’ve heard it all now.

by Dude Rock on Aug 3, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions

What do you from me? He's not a high school pitcher. He was a college closer.

My info was from the baseball prospectus big book, where they noted college relievers reach their ceiling early. They projected him as a set-up man. The idea that I somehow labeled him a bust is incorrect. I merely noted most pitching prospects are busts.

I tell you what, dude rick, I’ll swap you my Ty Howington autographed jersey from the year he won the Cy Young for your C. J. Nitkowski autographed ball.

by timb116 on Aug 3, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions