Dusty Baker and Edinson Volquez

by justin007000 on Aug 2, 2009 12:17 AM EDT Comment 21 comments

As we all know by now the Wagon is out for the season, and may lose most of next year. Dusty has the reputation of being a guy who is tough on pitchers, so I looked at Volquez's pitch counts from last season. Volquez threw 110+ pitches 14 times, but he eclipsed 120 pitches only once. So that doesn't seem that bad. What I found to be extremely frustrating was that Volquez threw 110+ pitches in 5 out of his last 6 starts. So Dusty had a pitcher who was reaching new territory as far as innings pitched (lets remember he also pitched in Winter ball before 2008), and decided what the hell, he should throw a shit ton of pitches in a lost season. His 121 pitch start came in September.

Dusty is not without precedent. Lets look at Prior in September of 2003. On 9/1 in a game that the Cubs won 7-0, Prior threw 131 pitches, in his next start on 9/6 the Cubs won 8-4 and Prior threw 129 pitches, and overall he allowed Prior to eclipse 130 pitches 3 times, and he eclipsed 120 pitches 5 times, and in his other start he throw 109 pitches. Prior to September of 2003 Prior had only thrown 130+ pitches once in his major league career. Of course one could argue that the Cubs were in a pennant chase, and Dusty had to chose between protecting his pitcher and missing the playoffs, but the two games I pointed out had a fairly wide margin and he could have let up a little on Prior.

So to recap when Dusty takes a young pitcher into new territory as far as innings pitched in September, he rides him harder. That does not seem like a very good idea. I want him fired.

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As much as I hate Dusty, I can't blame him for Volquez.

He’s pretty much lived up to every Dusty stereotype except for the one about riding young pitchers too hard, I think he’s been adequate enough with Cueto, Volquez, and Homer.

by Geki on Aug 2, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

you don't think it would have been wise to try and keep Volquez under 100 pitches, instead of pushing up to 110 last september?

Bloop

by justin007000 on Aug 2, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think there is enough proof that either of those numbers are safe or dangerous

"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty

by Slyde on Aug 2, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't care...

If it’s another thing we can blame on Dusty, I’m all for it. I’m just sick of the guy.

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Aug 2, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dusty baker caues global warming

Bloop

by justin007000 on Aug 2, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't you mean global climate change

It was the coldest July on record in Louisville

by Dave from Louisville on Aug 2, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and that was just in the pitino bedroom

Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,

by 'tHan on Aug 2, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard

Dusty rigged the 2004 elections. And shot that missile at the Pentagon. And Batted Rolen in a horrible position for a contact hitter with a high OBP

by Excalib8 on Aug 2, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember Volquez asking to be kept in the games because he was trying to win 20

Edinson wanted an accomplishment and his manager accommodated him.

The Reds cannot compete in 2010 with out him and thanks to them they let him twist in the breeze for 2 months. Sad

by timb116 on Aug 2, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cueto - watch out!

Scares the shit out of me that Cueto might be next. Keep in mind, Dustbag was also widely criticized for his handling of Wood – not just Prior. If Cueto becomes his next victim we won’t recover for 5 years – especially when we throw away a kid who has a realistic shot (Stewart) at developing into a solid ML starter.

Look what the Yankees are rumored to be doing with Joba Chamberlain. He is throwing incredibly well over his last 4+ starts – but the tv talking heads are saying he’s going to the bullpen now that he’s over 110 IP this year – to SAVE HIS ARM! And, last I looked, the Yanks are “in a playoff hunt.”

Dustbag sucks – for so many reasons. Like: 1) having Gonzo lay down a sac bunt when the runner was already in scoring position in the 1st inning. That strategy MAY be ok in the late innings, but the SECOND batter of the game??? 2) Sticking with shitty players (Taveras, CPatt last year) too long at the expense of giving some kids with much higher potential upsides a chance (I’d rather see Stubbs given a shot than see Taveras’ shitty approach at the plate AND his shitty OF defense another game). 3) Handling of pitchers – as per above. 4) The lineup he runs out there. I’d rather have seen BP in the 1 or 5 spot last night – and Rolen in hitting clean-up. If Stubbs were up – you’d have your lead-off hitter and BP could bat 2nd with Gonzo 8th.

Long story short – can Baker’s fat ass. Other teams well out of contention fire their managers – why can’t we? Noone would mistake it for some sign we’re trying to win this year, but it would at least be a “for cause” action. They guy doesn’t get it, has never proven he can develop a rebuilding team, and doesn’t motivate anyone. He sucks.

by reddrox78 on Aug 2, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think that's fair

It’s not so much the number of innings pitched that’s linked to injury with young pitchers, but the increase from the previous year. Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes both have not pitched a lot of innings, and the Yankees are being careful ramping them up, as they should.

Volquez and Cueto are already ramped up. They pitched close to a full season’s worth of starts in previous seasons. The Yanks would not have them on innings count, if they were Yankees. (And if all goes well, Chamberlain and Hughes will be no longer be on innings count next season.)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Aug 2, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the Yankees example shows that these sort of decisions are not (or should not) be made at the manager’s level. Girardi is not the one limiting Joba’s pitches or innings and moving him to the bullpen.

by rojosoto on Aug 3, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It really makes me sad

To see more and more young pitchers fall because of Dusty. As a cubs fan, I’ve witnessed the collapses of Wood and Prior, and some of it was definitely Dustys fault. I wish Volquez the best of luck, and Cueto too.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 3, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dusty had nothing to do with this.

you know Wood and Prior claim Dusty had nothing to do with them either. Wood has never exactly been a paragon of health

by timb116 on Aug 3, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He beat Prior like a rented mule in 2003

Look at Prior’s September pitch counts. Too much can be made of pitch counts in general, but consistently having a 22 year-old throw 125+ is a bad idea.

by ken on Aug 4, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, but I'm repeating what Prior said

Prior has said publicly that Dusty had nothing to do with him injuring his Achilles tendon (which is the injury which hampered him in spring training of year 2).

Personally, I think Dusty destroyed Prior (Prior disagrees) and had nothing to do with Wood (who is just injury prone). Further, Dusty kept the pitch counts on these two guys down. the one truly terrible mistake Dusty made was keeping Harang on schedule after the extra inning game. he should have found a way to skip him in the rotation.

The idea that Volquez hurt himself this year, because Dusty did something to him is not born out by pitch counts or innings pitched.

by timb116 on Aug 4, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs