Should the Reds Consider Moving Zack Cozart Along Faster?
Even before the Reds traded Alex Gonzalez yesterday, I had been thinking about shortstop prospect Zack Cozart for a couple of days. I know Cozart isn't a major prospect - he's probably not even in the top 10 in the Reds' system - but he may be the closest thing to a legitimate big league shortstop that the Reds have in the minors. Because of this, he interests me.
For those that don't know much about Cozart, he's reputed to play gold glove level defense at shortstop. John Sickels says this in his most recent prospect book (p. 110):
Cozart is an excellent defensive shortstop, with above average to excellent attributes in all categories.
This is a fairly typical scouting report for the 23-year old right-hander who the Reds took in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft. The knock on him has always been his bat though. He's said to have a quick bat, but a poor approach, swinging for power more than he really should. He does appear to have made some adjustments this year. He has walked twice as much this season as last in 12 fewer PA, and he's traded some home runs for doubles. Personally, I prefer a player that has at least one serious batting skill than to be no real threat across the board. If Cozart's patience at the plate is a reall change, his potential ability to get on base could be a good asset for him.
But that's not what interests me about him. To me, I'm mainly interested in his glove, and maximizing his value at the big league level. I don't think he'll ever be a great hitter, though I suppose he could be a slightly below average one, which would suffice. The key though is to take advantage of his superior glove while it is at it's peak. A player's overall value tends to peak around age 27 or 28, but defensive value usually peaks a bit before that. As Beyond the Boxscore has shown in the following graph, a shortstop's range peaks around age 24, and then typically starts a general decline from there:

For a player like Cozart, whose value is going to be predominately tied to his glove, his peak is likely to be earlier than is typical. It might make sense for the Reds to push him to the big leagues in 2010, so that they can take full advantage of his defensive value while it is peaking. I imagine this was a similar philosophy to what the Reds did with Dave Concepcion in the 1970s. Concepcion was a disaster at the plate his first three seasons, but they still got some value out of him because of his excellent glove. To be honest though, I'm not real sure if it was a net positive - he was TERRIBLE at the plate.
Then again, the 70s Reds also had plenty of bats at other positions, so they could sacrifice offense at shortstop. The 2009 Reds - close to the worst offense in Reds history - don't lead us to believe that they could take on a no hit shortstop and succeed. The ideal situation is still to acquire someone like J.J. Hardy or perhaps to move Brandon Phillips over to shortstop and get a decent bat to play 2B. However, barring any solid acquisition, I think the Reds could do much worse than putting a cheap Cozart in at shortstop in 2010 and trying to find a strong bat in a more offensive prone position like left field.
0 recs |
78 comments
|
Comments
So then,
does Cozart project out to be Janish?
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Aug 15, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he's shown a slightly better bat than Janish so far in the minors
though honestly that’s more because Janish is a terrible hitter more than Cozart being a good one. But yeah, he’s not going to be a huge upgrade over Janish.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any idea on how Cozart's glove compares to Janish's?
Because unless it’s remarkably better, I don’t really see a serious benefit to rushing Cozart if we have the exact same player already on the roster. Sure, we’d be taking advantage of his defensive prime, but that’s where we are with Janish right now too. If we don’t rush Cozart and end up missing his defensive prime, then perhaps he just was never destined to be in the majors. Maybe instead of rushing him, we should be looking to cultivate him as trade bait?
by Brendanukkah on Aug 15, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TotalZone at Minorleauesplits.com
has Cozart rated MUCH higher than Janish, but there are big time error bars on that data. MLS has Cozart rated as +30 R/150 games over the last 2 seasons. Janish is worth about +13 R/150 over 2007/2008.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cozart will be better than Janish
Cozart is the Reds future at SS, not Valaika. Dude at, http://redsminorleagues.com/depth-chart/ , has Cozart ahead of all other Reds minor league shortstops with his stock rising. I also heard him on Lance’s show one day saying in his opinion, Cozart has raised his stock to be in the top 3 or 5 prospects that the Reds have.
by Dude Rock on Aug 15, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if Cozart is bettter
He doesnt appear a big upgrade over Yanni boy
by mrsmith35sg on Aug 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
September 2010
The Reds development people believe Cozart can be in the big leagues by September next season and he’s progressing at a clip they are very comfortable. But yeah, they think he’s the future shortstop.
by Mr. Redlegs on Aug 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you think they are happy enough with him to not make a move on JJ Hardy, if he's available?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lately, the Reds mgmt doesn't seem too happy with any of their prospects.....
……they sure don’t indicate anyone is in their future plans…….that’s for sure. Hardy is having an off year. I’d be interested in obtaining the former #2 draft pick, if possible.
by Dude Rock on Aug 15, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really do not think
the Brewers will send Hardy to a team in their division. The Red Sox will probably add him to their collection of talent.
by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Aug 15, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Bucks, No Bang
Don’t think they’re going to have the money to make a big play for Hardy or many other established players. We’ll see. Hardy is a difficult case because he’s already close to $5 mil and I believe he’s still in his arb years.
by Mr. Redlegs on Aug 15, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has at least one arb year left
possibly two if he stays in the minors long enough.
And I could see them trading Harang and splitting some of the cost with Brewers. Not that that is what I want.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Cozart is the SS of the future
And not expected until Sept. 2010, what are they going to about next year? Let Janish keep the spot warm for him?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 15, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No on Cozart
Reds would be better off with a JJ Hardy or moving BP than fucking around with Jannish and cozart.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 15, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ugly graph
What on earth are the Yanks going to do with 35-year-old Derek Jeter?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 15, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
CF? DH?
That will be interesting.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Aug 15, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's past his prime for a CFer, too
The previous article in the series showed outfielders’ peak range was at age 24. Robin Yount was only 29 when he moved from SS to CF.
And he doesn’t really have the kind of bat you need for 1B or DH or LF.
I think Cashman would like to cut him loose at the end of his current contract. But the fans wouldn’t take it well. Especially since A-Rod is signed until he’s about 65.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 15, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could move Jeter to third base
trading Alex to the Reds to get Chase Weems back
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
be careful what you wish for
A-Rod is only a year younger than Jeter. And he’s got a bad hip.
At least A-Rod has the power to be a DH, though.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 15, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Live with him getting 300 hits and being the captain of their team
or, the same thing the Reds did with Lark and the same thing the O’s did with Ripken (until it was obvious to even Angelos)
by timb116 on Aug 15, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still remember Larkin's 3000 hit game like it was yesterday
(I keed…)
by Red Menace on Aug 15, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't believe he got 3000 hits in one game
ball’s in your court
by timb116 on Aug 15, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whats more important
An improvement at SS or the OF? I know were cluttered in the outfield with a lot of variables, but there are no sure fire RBI machine hitters in that pool.
by mrsmith35sg on Aug 15, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
SS
Gomes may be a husky Hairston ’08, but Jonny-Chris-Jay is a viable outfield. There is no good news about the Reds ’09 Shortstop. Janish is not The Answer much more than Sea Bass was.
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is Stubbs in that mix?
JW Jonny has proved valuable i just dont know if relying on high upside guys just hoping is the best answer. Id be effin ecstatic if it was
by mrsmith35sg on Aug 15, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have Stubbs and Wlad
as the outfielders #4 and 5. But, you know, someone has to make room for Taveras
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be an RBI machine, you need to have people on base to drive in
You probably won’t see one of those till 2011 at the earliest.
He'll mainly be a pinch-hitter (he's lefthanded) because we're so strong from right side with Laynce Nix and Jonny Gomes, - Dusty on Barker (someone tell Dusty that Nix bats lefty)
by RedsMasochist on Aug 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting thoughts on Cozart, but I'm inclined to wait on him
If he was up by September 2010, that would leave plenty of defensive value for the big club and maybe he could contribute with his bat as well. If he’d only be a slight upgrade over Janish you might as well let him develop rather than risk stunting his offensive potential.
Regarding SS or LF, I think between Wlad, Gomes, and C-Dick we have a pretty good chance of fielding a league average LF than we do with our current SS pool. I’d make every effort to get Hardy or Escobar, whichever is made available. Barring that Id move BP to short and call up Frazier at 2B. He seems likely able to contribute right away.
Baseball must be a great game to survive the fools who run it.— Bill Terry
by nycredsfan on Aug 15, 2009 12:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I am content
with a Gomes LF, Dickerson CF, and Bruce RF outfield at least through the rest of the season (assuming Jay makes it back soon). I think we need to get rid of Nix and Taveras (if at all possible without eating too much salary). I think it is smart to try and trade one of Stubbs or Dickerson eventually for a SS and sign a starting pitcher in the offseason.
I think its imperative we try and go after JJ Hardy. He is fairly young, a former all star who still has huge upside, and he fits a huge need for this club. Bill Hall would be a nice get for cheap and could spell Rolen at third. A SP in the offseason is a big need as well, esp with Voltran on the DL for the better part if not all of next season. One interesting trade proposal I’ve heard is BP for Yunel escobar and bring up Frazier to play 2B.
by npb1985 on Aug 15, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Zack Cozart
Slyde, Zack uses a K in his name. I also think you are underrating him. Offensively he projects to be an average MLB shortstop to slightly above average. Defensively he is above average. He has shown outstanding plate discipline this year and skipped over High A and really didn’t miss much of a beat.
Walt Jocketty said a few weeks ago that they would like to move him up to see what they had before next year. Since it hasn’t happened yet I get the feeling its not going to this season. I think thats a pretty bad plan. The Reds need to know if he can be an option in 2010 before they go to free agency for a shortstop and either over pay, or get someone who is just going to suck because they only want to give him a 1 year deal because of Cozart and no one worth anything is taking a 1 year deal.
by dougdirt on Aug 15, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hey, you're back
What happened? Your site was down for a long time.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Aug 15, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problems with the server
needless to say, I will be looking for a new company to host the site at the end of the year.
by dougdirt on Aug 15, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how I'm underrating him
I don’t think you’ve said anything much different that what I’ve said. Sure, he could be an average bat for a shortstop, which puts him right around a .700-.720 OPS (I’m looking at median, not average, since Hanley really throws off the curve). And typically, average hitting shortstops get most of their value from their glove (think Orlando Cabrera). This is basically what I’m saying.
Thanks for the correction the spelling of the name, but I got it from you.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Hanley really throws off the curve"
Man, if only Walt could’ve gotten that deal done last month…
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that'll be the most glaring scar on his resume
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spelling
I didn’t know he used a K until this year.
As for underrating him, I guess the ‘he probably isn’t a Reds Top 10 prospect’ is what I was going with. He is easily inside the top 10. Alonso, Stubbs, Frazier, Heisey, YRod…. those are the only guys I would rank ahead of him right now in the system.
by dougdirt on Aug 15, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh, I was just busting on you.
and I think you rate him a little too high, but then top 10 lists are rarely that accurate anyway (yours, mine, or anybody’s).
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what I mean by that is that whether someone is 6th or 11th doesn't necessarily differentiate the players that dramatically
Not trying to tear down your rankings.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its all good
The system certainly isn’ t as good as it has been the past few years.
by dougdirt on Aug 15, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cozart could be Adam Everett with
a bit of a better bat and much better on base skills. I’d take that. Bring him up this season might be rushing him a bit, but then again I’m sometimes overly cautious with prospects.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Aug 15, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to bring him up this season
though, like Doug, I wish they had moved him to AAA. My point is that his primary skill is his glove, which is MLB ready. His bat will just have to finish developing in the Majors.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't link to dougs site cause I'm on my phone
But el niño destructor was promoted to AAA while Frazier (and Cozart) are stuck in AA. I won’t repeat Doug’s concerns, which I agree with. Ill add though that I think it sends a bad message when a guy with bad defense who rarely walks, strikes out a bunch and is only 22 gets promoted over guys who have great plate approaches and play good defense.
The only way this makes sense is if he’s being showcased for a trade (for Hardy maybe?)
Baseball must be a great game to survive the fools who run it.— Bill Terry
by nycredsfan on Aug 15, 2009 2:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it would be a trade for Hardy
The Brewers already have a poor defensive 3B prospect, though with less power but more OBP, in Mat Gamel.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francisco to AAA?
im no expert on this stuff, but this seems…not right.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 15, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how much of the season is left?
If it’s only for 3 weeks or so, that’s sort of bizarre
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it me or is the destructor
seem to be the same type of player as EdE. Especially this year. Very streaky, and the capacity to make a zillion errors.
by mrsmith35sg on Aug 15, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
but they are very different hitters. EdE had a decent walk rate and Francisco has much more power. The key difference being that even when he was slumping, EdE typically got on a base a little bit.
I don’t see the need to rush Francisco. Like Doug says on his site, he won’t be needed until July, 2010 at best. And he really needs to keep working on his plate discipline.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the link
The more I think about it the only way this makes sense is if they are thinking of trading him, especially when you consider Walt wants to re-sign Rolen.
Maybe Rolen is super crazy hurt and since Francisco’s on the 40 man he’s getting a September call-up?
Baseball must be a great game to survive the fools who run it.— Bill Terry
by nycredsfan on Aug 15, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wlhy?
I don’t get it.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does this mean I'm getting banned?
I actually realized I should go in depth just after I hit “post”.
Balentien was put on the 40-man relatively early and brought onto the Mariners at 22, for all of 4 PAs.
Because he was brought up early and his options were burned, the Mariners needed to trade him before he (hopefully) blossomed. I’d assume the Ms would rather have a 900 OPS Wlad then Robert Manuel.
Bringing up Francisco this year would seem awfully similar, no? Bringing up a guy for just a few PAs in a dead season who anyone could tell you is not ready?
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
if im not mistaken, the Reds have already burned one of his options this year, no? he had to be put on the 40-man last winter to protect him from the rule-5. so when he was sent to the minors this spring it counted as one of his options.
or am i completely mistaken?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 15, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are not mistaken
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a wreck today
I haven’t opened my mouth and made sense yet, so this is just something else to add to the list.
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you always open your mouth when you type?
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on Aug 15, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which part of "I'm not making sense"
does not make sense?
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
David Byrne'd
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 16, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the big reasons I'm cautious with prospects.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Aug 15, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Jim Bowden is hiding in a Jocketty skin suit screaming about wanting to see more home runs like the glory days of wily mo
by mrsmith35sg on Aug 15, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they promoted him because Louisville is down a power hitter with Barker's promotion
And Louisville is actually in the playoff hunt.
He'll mainly be a pinch-hitter (he's lefthanded) because we're so strong from right side with Laynce Nix and Jonny Gomes, - Dusty on Barker (someone tell Dusty that Nix bats lefty)
by RedsMasochist on Aug 15, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You!
This is about Louisville and having a respectable playoff team; not on the promotional merits of Francisco or Frazier . . . even though Francisco has done enough to be promoted. But oftentimes the organizations have the responsibility to make sure their affiliates going to the playoffs can maximize that opportunity—for the gate and the players.
by Mr. Redlegs on Aug 15, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Francisco deserves the promotion more?
And Frazier could play 3B, if that is the decision. It’s not like they’ve made any corresponding moves that require Frazier to stick at 2B for the rest of this year.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they're calling Francisco up for his bat.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him playing first down the stretch.
He'll mainly be a pinch-hitter (he's lefthanded) because we're so strong from right side with Laynce Nix and Jonny Gomes, - Dusty on Barker (someone tell Dusty that Nix bats lefty)
by RedsMasochist on Aug 15, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if they still want Frazier at 2B
I don’t see it necessary to continue to give Luis Bolivar and Eric Eymann consistent playing time when you have a player like Frazier who’s killing AA like he is. The main thing that tells me is that they don’t have nearly the confidence in him that we do.
As for the playoffs argument, I’m fine with thinking that they’d like to see the AAA team succeed, and even add players for the stretch run, but how would Frazier not help them achieve that goal? He’s certainly better than what they’ve got. (Cozart too, actually)
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Aug 16, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really think Francisco has done enough to be promoted?
his plate discipline is still horrible (though a bit better) and he isnt making any strides on defense. im not a big believer in Francisco to begin with, but he is only 22 and still has great potential. he can mash better than anyone in the minors not named Mike Stanton, but unless the Reds handle him properly he’ll never have a chance. i get that the Bats are making a playoff push and i’ll even admit that Juan is probably the best power bat available to help out, but to say he has “done enough to be promoted” i think is a stretch.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 15, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More theories
They could be promoting him to Louisville not only to fill the hole left by Barker’s promotion, but also to have Francisco be able to work with the Reds AAA coaches so that he can improve in his weak areas (drawing walks and fielding).
He'll mainly be a pinch-hitter (he's lefthanded) because we're so strong from right side with Laynce Nix and Jonny Gomes, - Dusty on Barker (someone tell Dusty that Nix bats lefty)
by RedsMasochist on Aug 15, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Again, oftentimes these things aren’t based on merit. It’s about filling a slot. Barker was called up to the Reds for whatever reason, Francisco fills that middle of the order spot and keeps moving through the system.
And yes, Francisco has done enough to merit the move-up. It’s not an an outrageous decision. Who is he replacing in Louisville?
Where is Frazier gonna play in Louisville? Is he replacing Stubbs or Heisey? No. Is he replacing Dorn or Valaika? No. Could he replace Eymann? Sure, and maybe he will, but he doesn’t have that many games at 2b and it appears they want him to finish out at the position this year.
Again, it’s about slots and playing time. I also know they don’t want to mess with Louisville too much right now as they get ready for the playoffs. That’s why I was surprised by the Barker call-up.
by Mr. Redlegs on Aug 16, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has improved by just about every statistical measure
every year, which is kinda cool.
by Cy Schourek on Aug 15, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what we need is....
a shortstop that we would feel comfortable with batting second…
cause you know thats where dusty will put him…
Nobody listens to Andrew
by nlt-andrew68 on Aug 15, 2009 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
According to Keith Law Tweet
The Reds have signed their top two picks. That would Mike Leake and Bradley Boxberger. No idea on the money because it is behind the ESPN pay wall. http://ow.ly/kaxY
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BA had the details
I put them here.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 15, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defensive ageing curves
Tango did a study last year on defensive ageing that’s worth a read. His methodology is, I think, more precise than Zimmerman’s. Tango’s “matched pairs” compares a player’s out conversion rate (outs per balls in play) on a year-to-year basis when he played at the same position, in the same park, with the same pitcher on the mound, and the same batter-handedness at the plate. Zimmerman just looks at UZR year-to-year, which adds subjective factors inherent in any defensive rating formula.
Tango concludes (after regressing his findings) that a shortstop’s defensive peak is between 24 and 28. The regression is significant because of the selection bias that also affects Zimmerman’s study:
The only shortstops who survive the study are those good enough (or thought to have been good enough) to play in back-to-back years. And a player who performs above the population average is likely a player who benefited from good fortune. Consider that the league-average out rate is around 12.5%, but, for every matched pair under observation, the out rate for shortstops in the first of the two years is at least 13.0%. In essence, that 13.0% contains a tinge of luck. And that luck needs to be extracted.
Before regression, Tango’s data suggests that the defensive peak is between 22 and 24, which doesn’t sound right.
I agree with some others about going with Janish, at least in early 2010. I’d rather make sure Cozart is ready to hit major league pitching by keeping him down a few months in Louisville rather than screw up his development in an attempt to save a few defensive runs.
by ken on Aug 16, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I never said my idea was perfect. :)
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Aug 16, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 






















