A brief outlook on the 2010 roster
I was trying to get a feel for how the 2010 roster might be shaping up in terms of dollars and roster slots, and was so impressed by management's foresight I just had to share what I found. One of those things isn't true.
The Reds have three expiring free agent contracts: Jonny Gomes ($0.6M), Laynce Nix ($0.6M), and Kip Wells ($0.5M). Wells is a true free agent. It is unclear whether Gomes and Nix, due to their low service time totals, are still technically under the team's control after the '09 season. If they are, they will have arbitration rights, and will come back at a higher salary.
The Reds also have two team options for 2010: Ramon Hernandez can be re-signed for $8.5M or can be bought out for $1M. Alex Gonzalez's option is for $6M, with an alternative to buy out for $0.5M. For the sake of my sanity, I am assuming that both players will be bought out, for a total 2010 budget committment of $1.5M.
Nine players are under signed contract for 2010:
Harang - $12.5M; Cordero - $12M; Rolen - $11M; Arroyo - $11M; Phillips - $6.75M; Tavares - $4M; Lincoln - $2.5M; Rhodes - $2M; Alonso - $0.5M
If we assume that Alonso will not be on the 25 man roster next year, and add the aforementioned buyouts, that's $63.75M for 8 players. Note that this makes a rather rosy assumption regarding Lincoln's return. Also note that of the locked up players, three represent strong bets to be above average players at their respective position (CoCo, BP, and Rhodes), and two of those are relievers--the most volatile year-to-year position.
The good news is that as best as I can tell, none of the current Reds are due for arbitration next year (save for the possible exceptions of Gomes/Nix). The group of Volquez, Votto, Bruce, Janish, Masset, etc, etc. will all be available to return at salaries between $0.4M - $0.6M. Since we talked earlier about 8 players already slotted, if we add 17 more to draw up the 25 man roster, that's somewhere in the neighborhood of $7.6M. This assumes no long term contracts offered to any of the youngsters in an effort to buy out future arbitration years.
The current 25-man roster is at a salary of around $74.4M (source: ESPN, plus a small assumption or two on my part). That's offset to some degree by the fact that: a) Rolen hasn't been here all year; and b) the Jays are covering some of his salary. Somewhere in the low 70's ought to be a sufficient assumption. Middle of the pack, as MLB payrolls go.
The roll forward of 2010 payroll in the exercise above yields a number somewhere around $71M - $72M.
A few assumptions/predictions, then:
1) The team has suffered financially in the recession, and is unlikely to significantly increase payroll, if at all.
2) The projected 2010 roster will include an outfield of Wlad / Tavares / Bruce, and either Janish or a rookie at SS.
3) The team will be assessed as being shorthanded in the OF and at SS, but will lack the budget to go after anything more than a very cheap free-agent.
4) The bullpen will also have perceived shortfalls.
5) Harang or Arroyo will be dealt in the off-season to free up the necessary payroll to address these areas.
6) The return package for Harang/Arroyo will be perceived as very underwhelming. The trade will be roughly a fair value transaction, however.
7) Local apologist beat writers will respond fan disappointment by pointing to the list of departing contracts after 2010 and suggesting that the Reds will be major players in the 2010-11 free agent market. Said writers will forget about the trio of arbitration raises that will coincide with that season (Volquez, Votto, and Cueto), which will eat up a good chunk of the freed payroll.
8) The team will, however, crack the .500 barrier in 2011, and make a run at the playoffs. This will be under the watch of a new manager and general manager who will be fired during the course of an ugly 2010 season.
63 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I dont think Jockety is going anywhere after next year
Bob seems to like him a lot.
Thanks
This should come with a reminder that vertical slices are way more efficient than horizontal ones.
"Avoid the Clap, Jimmy Dugan. That's good advice!"
by jmgard6 on Aug 11, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I would have included that reminder
Except I don’t know what it means.
by riverfront76 on Aug 11, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The Reds do hold arbitration rights on Gomes for sure
and I’m pretty sure they do on Nix as well.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
If the Reds to go ahead and get rid of Ramon
who do you think will take his place? Corky or Craig? 8.5 million is a lot, and if the Reds can get him for less, that’d be great. But I’d be ok with Hernandez coming back.
Hanigan
Then, the question of who to be the back-up catcher becomes the 25th priority on the off-season to-do list.
by riverfront76 on Aug 11, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
the reds can negotiate a new contract with Ramon
If the Reds offer him lets say (made up number) $5M, and he feels he won’t get that much on the market, or just loves Cincinnati, he can stay.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Aug 11, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just about to post that
They could give him something like 9M for two years plus the buyout. I can’t see any team giving him 7.5M/year.
Ramon Hernandez, year-by-year OPS+, 2006-2009
2006: 111
2007: 88
2008: 86
2009: 79
Average OPS+ for an NL catcher, 2009: 92
The next team that signs this guy is gonna be left holding the bag when the bottom falls out.
by riverfront76 on Aug 11, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
SSS this year
He also has a .264 babip despite a 20% line drive rate. Even with his foot speed that’s unlucky.
Given the emergence of Hanigan and Ramon’s age I wouldn’t sign Ramon to be a starter, but as backup/insurance I think you can do worse.
I'd be just fine with Hanigan and Wilkin holding down the fort
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Aug 11, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Wee Willy Wilkin has no business on a major league roster
i wouldnt be at all adverse to Ramon coming back at something like 3 mil, but the problem is that if he does come back he’ll play every 5 days when the PT should be split evenly. he’s a decent catcher, but Dusty thinks he’s an MVP.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 11, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why I don't want him back
If you know Dusty is going to mismanage him, why would you want him on the team? It’s like putting a huge bag of candy in front of a kid and saying “don’t eat any of that candy” and leaving the room. It’s like leaving a shot of Patron and a line of blow in front of Josh Hamilton and locking Johnny Narron in his truck. You know what’s going to happen, so why subject yourself to it?
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Aug 11, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You know what's going to happen?
Sexy times!
.jpg)
by Brendanukkah on Aug 11, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
why can't things like that happen to me?
Bloop
by justin007000 on Aug 11, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
is that even considered an "upbringing"?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 11, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
HAHAHAHA!
Rec
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 11, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Will Jesus have faith in you

“Hey aren’t those girls making the sign of the cross on that Dude…Cool”
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
That, or a cock and balls.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 11, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions

"Even if he is average, I’d still take him over Willyevergetonbase Taveras." - Randy in Chatt on redsminorleagues.com
by RedsMasochist on Aug 11, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd hard
I can see you're not going to agree with me, so let's move on. - Bill Maher
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 11, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I drink that cool aid now, REv. Jones....
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
is Burton going to be arb-eligible after this season?
or did his brief AAA stint put the kibosh on that?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 11, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions
He's only been off the roster for around 20 days
so I’d bet that he’ll be arb eligible.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Should you factor in the mystery cash that TOR is sending for Rolen's salary?
Rumors indicated it might be 2-4 million, or more.
othe rumors say they are sending none at all
Walt needs to just tell us already. i dont see what they gain by keeping it secret.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 11, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
My question is...
When are we trading Votto for Hanley?
I thought it was going to be in July, but our 1B for the year Ramon got hurt….dangit.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 11, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions
my sources say the deal for Gonzalez fell through
and they are now turning their efforts toward getting Chase Utley.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 12, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I read on the internet that they were looking to deal for Utley
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I read it here, just before typing this.
Must be true.
"There's nothing cool about your game." - Jeff Brantley, talking smack about Nyjer Morgan.
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 17, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
They've got a long way to go
They’re 9.5 up on the Nats, who may very well end up with pick 1 and 1a.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
This is another good fanpost
I encourage FanPosts to look more like this and the Wlad for LF post. Much more entertaining to read!
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I also like the Eyewitness reports from BF and Cy
I’m a big fan of pictures from games.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
"I also like the Eyewitness reports from BF and Cy"
is sort of like “I enjoy the music of Mozart and Falco”
by Cy Schourek on Aug 12, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hah!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 12, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Geez.....
Seems like I’ve seen 50 of these “next year” posts regarding contracts and projected lineups.
I get tired of the “payroll will remain the same” projection because of the economy. Trade for Adrien Gonzalez, which adds $4.75M and fixes your offense. Offense fixed…….fans show back up for some exciting baseball and more than make up for the increase, as the team competes.
Pretty simple. I should manage the Reds cause Castellini should sell the team because he and Walt have no clue what they’re doing.
Sigh
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
by Madville on Aug 13, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You can't handle the truth!!!!
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You want answers?
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I think I’m entitled.
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You want answers?!
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I want the truth!
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You can’t handle the truth!
Rockin'!
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Aug 13, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I only had one thing to add
Said writers will forget about the trio of arbitration raises that will coincide with that season (Volquez, Votto, and Cueto), which will eat up a good chunk of the freed payroll
Should add, but said writers will remember upon the close of the 2010 season (because management will spoon feed them this) that the reason the Reds can’t be aggressive in the 2010-2011 off-season is because “raises to Votto, Volquez, and Cueto due to arbitration will eat up much of the payroll flexibility.”
Said writers are actually good at using management spin until the time management spin pivots 180 degrees and then they pivot to match it. But, by then, those same types will tell us the new crop of stars at Double A will help the Reds contend by 2013.
not to mention...
this is Cueto’s 2nd year and Votto has had 89 PAs and two years. Don’t both of them have one more year before arbitration?
(I’m too lazy to try to add Volquez’s MLB time up)
A certain percentage of arb eligibles players with 2 years become arb eligible after their second full year
they’re called super 2’s. It’s based on performance if memory serves right.
I thought it was based on time
like, if you had two years + 400 PAs or something like that. That makes more sense to me than performance.
That's correct
It’s based solely on service time, not performance. I don’t know the precise cut-off, but if a guy has two full years on the MLB team and was on the roster from around late May to the end of the season, he usually qualifies for Super 2.
I forgot to add that the Reds have always been at war with East Asia
by timb116 on Aug 13, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Never get into a land war in Asia.
"There's nothing cool about your game." - Jeff Brantley, talking smack about Nyjer Morgan.
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 17, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Adrien Gonzalez is hitting.....
.457 in his last 10 games, .414 in August, and .368 in his last 20 games.
He sucks.
That'll show all of us who said we shouldn't acquire him because he isn't good!
by Red Menace on Aug 15, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we have all been owned
like a rented mule
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 15, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He and Votto would make a great platoon
by riverfront76 on Aug 15, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions

by 



















