Scouts Busy in Cincinnati - Veteran Pitchers Availale
by jsl413 on Jul 22, 2009 10:43 AM EDT
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PrintAccording to Yahoo! Sports Writer Gordon Edes wrote an article talking about Cliff Lee, and other trade rumors. I love trade rumors, especially when the baseball our team is playing is highly depressing. Edes is not specific as to which scouts were in Cincinnati, or what deals are in the works/being talked about. Apparently we've drawn interest from LAA and LAD, given our scouts' trips to their A-ball game recently. Other potential suitors are the big money teams that like to make moves to solidify their playoff push - like the Yankees, Red Sox (may need a LOOGY, although Arthur Rhodes is not on this list, I think he should be), etc. I think it will be very interesting to see how the next few days shake down, especially since management (hopefully) understands that we can be veteran salespeople this year and build for the future - hopefully with a good enough plan in place to make us legitimately competitive.
Another popular destination for scouts last weekend was Cincinnati, where starters Bronson Arroyo(notes) and Aaron Harang(notes) are said to be available, along with veteran reliever David Weathers(notes), and there are indications that the Reds would listen to offers for closer Francisco Cordero(notes). Moving Cordero, however, is problematic. He has full no-trade protection and two more years on his contract at $12 million per, plus a $12 million option in 2012.
We've talked about a lot of these guys before, and it might be a very lackluster trade deadline in Cincinnati if Jocketty decides to hold on to Arroyo till Winter, decides Harang is too important to move, and gets lowball offers for the relievers. There are also obvious financial and contractual issues. At least scouts are interested in some of these old guys that won't be contributing down the line.
Jocketty has been highly succesful at making good trades in the past, and has built quite a few great rosters and put together a pretty damn good farm system in StL. In Walt I trust - for now.
John Fay today also broke down the trade market as it applies to the Reds. He explains salaries and breifly touches on the players' values.There is talk of Scutaro, Rhodes, Weathers, Arroyo, Harang, Hairston, and CoCo. He also says he'd be stunned if Phillips is dealt. Would you? Really think about that.
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I said last year at the deadline that it would be a failure if Walt didn't move Weathers
Walt ended up doing pretty well, but this year he HAS to trade Weathers if there’s anything he could get for him.
Definitely the last chance to get anything for him.
I mean, there’s some value to him now. So you could actually get a value-adding trade. But next year, you won’t get ANYTHING at all for him. He’s pitched well above his head so far this year.
Midlevel prospect, maybe two
I doubt they can get a player that will be ready in 2010 and probably not even 2011 for that matter.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
he's more valuable then Kepp, right?
If the Reds could get a Sutton-esque guy, that’d be cool. They could use some 4A filler that has some useful tools
I agree
I think the most likely to go though is Rhodes, he is the most marketable.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
I bumped this up to act as a trade rumor thread for the day
since you probably stole the thunder from the Reposter. :)
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
good timing too
thanks jsl. work has me buried today so the reposter was going to be an afternoon delight, if at all.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 22, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad to be of assistance.
Had I known I was writing the reposter, I would have been more exhaustive.
SELL, SELL, SELL!
There should be no more talk about whether this team is going to be buyers or sellers. There’s no reason to buy when you can’t even come close to beating the Dodgers. Maybe next year.
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 22, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions
Sure, sell is obvious
but how much do you sell? You can’t dump everybody and expect to compete next year.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I'd say...
trade away one starting pitcher, whether it’s Arroyo or Harang, if we can. We got depth there with Bailey, Maloney, could even use Ramon Ramirez if we needed to. We also signed Kip Wells, who isn’t the best pitcher, but has the major league experience. I’d be willing to give up one relief pitcher, possibly two, if the deals are good enough. I think Masset can be wonders for the Reds in the upcoming years. We also have lefty Bill Bray still who hopefully will be top notch after recovering from his injury. He can be the Rhodes replacement if we decide to trade him.
As for batters, other major league clubs don’t want our batters unless they’re named Votto, Bruce or Phillips:)
How much longer til Dusty's gone?
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 22, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I would try to trade Harang, Arroyo, Rhodes and Cordero
I dont think there is any interest in Weathers.
If by some miracle you could trade all 4 you would be clearing 40 million in payroll next year- the chances of Arroyo, Harang, Rhodes and Cordero producing 40 million in value are slim and nill.
If you could receive 3-4 good prospects lets say in the Range Oakland received for Blanton last year- Outman and Donaldson- the Reds would have unbelievable depth in their minor leagues and payroll flexibility.
You start next year with a rotation of Bailey, Cueto, Owings, Maloney and Volquez. The AAA rotation would be Stewart, Wood, Ramirez, Prospect #1, Prospect #2. Likely you are building for 2011- but that actually sincs up with your minor league position talent which will be coming online 2011 with Cozart, Alonso, Frazier.
oh, good, as a Reds fan, I can't even aspire to Cub fandom
We don’t even get “Wait ’til next year.” We get “wait ’til two next years.”
Here’s an idea, keep Harang or Arroyo and have them pitch their major league average innings. As much as I like the idea of Big Bob saving his 40 million, I’m a tired of waiting.
Oh, and davidmac84, that was general frustration, not snark aimed at you. I’m just pissed right now that not enough was done to improve this team during the off-season.
I agree
I agree with timb116. You can’t trade off all of your pitchers just for prospects or to free up payroll. When Harang and Arroyo take the mound, at least the Reds have a CHANCE to win. Seems lately that the 4 and 5 pitchers are more than likely going to take a loss, if you trade off Harang and Arroyo, you’re down to winning maybe one or 2 of 5 games. It’s hard enough to watch the Reds right now, I don’t know if I could watch them if every game they run a AAA pitcher out there (with the exception of Cueto and occasionally Owings when he’s good). I think we have to stick to our guns on this, because if the Reds trade pitching for offense, then you’ve put yourself right back where we have been over the past decade. Losing teams that hit well but the pitching stinks… Washington Nationals perhaps?
I think if we have good solid pitching (which this rotation and bullpen have shown possible or we wouldn’t be only 5.5 games back), we’re only a few missing puzzle pieces away from a great ballclub. Hopefully the team figures out how to address this without cutting and running and “building for next year.” They’ve been building for next year for the past ten years. It’s time to stop throwing the puzzle away when you’re only a few pieces away from finishing it….
by ErnieBoyer on Jul 22, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
sure, lots of depth
but also lots of unproven talent that probably won’t help this team win in 2010. its great to have lots of young guys who are about to break into the bigs, but unless we can use that 40 or so million to pick up a stud for the rotation, i don’t think it’s worth it to get rid of all of them. if we trade anyone, i’d want it to be Arroyo (because of $$ and only $$) and Weathers (because he’s old and i hate him).
the reality is
the Reds cant trade all 3 of their big contracts. But trading Harang or Arroyo is a no lose proposition. They are not going to be worth their contracts going forward so you replace them with your young pitching and if 2010- Bailey, Maloney fails you call up a Stewart or a Wood and they are not ready- you then have the money to spend on FA pitching.
But if lets say a Bailey and maybe a Stewart shows to be above league average pitcher you know have tremedous payroll flexibility going forward.
2010 is the last guaranteed year on both contracts
they’ll have the payroll flexibility in 2011 if they want it.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Free Agent pitching?
You mean an experienced free agent pitcher like Josh Fogg? If you trade Harang and Arroyo, you have Cueto, Volquez (if he’s not hurt), Owings, and 2 AAA pitchers. I mean Volquez had a great year last year, but this year he’s been hurt and when he’s not he’s just not that good. Cueto is good this year but what about next? You know what you’re going to get out of Harang and Arroyo, for the most part a chance to win. If you send the young pitchers (Bailey, Maloney, etc.) out there, you’ve made the team the Washington Nationals except not as much offense… I would not watch the Reds if their record were 20-60…
Kip Wells has major league experience
What’s that supposed to mean? I don’t mean to pick on you in particular, but this is the precise attitude that Reds execs have had the past ten years. That’s how we ended up with Chris Michalakawaka, Adam Pettyjohn, or Josh Fogg. It’s time to forget about proven major league crap and stop making the same mistakes that other teams have already made. Let the Pirates and Royals sign those guys.
by Brian B on Jul 22, 2009 6:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kip Wells has major league experience
What’s that supposed to mean? I don’t mean to pick on you in particular, but this is the precise attitude that Reds execs have had the past ten years. That’s how we ended up with Chris Michalakawaka, Adam Pettyjohn, or Josh Fogg. It’s time to forget about proven major league crap and stop making the same mistakes that other teams have already made. Let the Pirates and Royals sign those guys.
by Brian B on Jul 22, 2009 6:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We'd have to add plenty
… in order to compete next year.
We’re many pieces away.
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 22, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
they'll be even further away if they trade all of their veterans
and I don’t think they are more than 3 pieces away. They have the pitching to win now.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I disagree.
I don’t see how they have the offense to compete.
What’s the best-case scenario?
- Votto continues to be one of the best hitters in the league
- BP continues to hit like he has all year
- They crap out a SS on the trade market
- EdE hits to his career averages the rest of the way, or better
- Taveras is benched for Dickerson or another CF from the open market
- Bruce comes back in 4 weeks, not 6+, and raises his OBP about 60 points
- Nix/Gomes platoon in LF, or Holliday is acquired.
- Hanigan continues as the starting C when Hernandez comes back
What’s likely, in my mind?
- Votto comes back to earth a bit (he’s good, but his OPS and OPS+ would be 4th in the league with enough PA)
- BP hitting like he has been
- SS continues as some combination of Hairston/AGon/Janish (what SS other than Jack Wilson is available? He isn’t an upgrade offensively, he’s expensive, he’s only signed for this year, and Pittsburgh is likely to want quality prospects for him)
- EdE is likely to hit well the rest of the season
- Taveras, barring injury or kidnapping, is going to start every game
- Wrist injuries can be bad for hitters; further, the Reds medical staff has shown time and again they handle injuries poorly. I don’t expect alot from Bruce the rest of the year.
- Holliday would be hideously expensive in terms of prospects; if/when Bruce and AGon come back, Dickerson and Hairston will also be given ABs in LF
- Hernandez is the starting catcher
Frankly, I don’t see where the offense is going to come from, knowing how the team will be run. The best ways to improve the offense internally (bench Taveras and Hernandez) simply aren’t going to happen; teh best ways to improve externally (acquire a SS and LF) don’t look, to me, realistic.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on Jul 22, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not talking about this year
I’m talking about 2010. Trading too many of the veterans now hurts 2010.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Well...
I was replying to the “I don’t think they are more than 3 pieces away. They have the pitching to win now” comment.
As I said below, I think Harang is just hideously unlucky this year. Something definately needs to be done about next year in LF and SS; but for this year I’d sell the old, overperforming relievers and try to get something nice and shiny for Arroyo if I can.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
which veterans?
I don’t see how this (trading too many of the veterans hurts 2010) is true unless you are arguing that the team shouldn’t trade Harang AND Arroyo AND Cordero. I agree with that (that they shouldn’t trade all 3).
If they have a buyer for Arroyo and any number of their pending free agent veterans (Weathers, Gonzalez, Hairston, etc), I say sell, sell, sell.
that's what I'm saying
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
of late, no
on the season as a whole, it’s been good enough to win. (And by pitching, I mean pitching and defense.)
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Lance McCalister deemed the reds pitching staff 13th in the national league
Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,
they've been shit since July 4th.
But on July 4th they had given up the 4th fewest runs in the NL.
But if Lance has deemed them something, I should probably just shut up.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
yeah he's usually pretty accurate
especially about recruiting information.
I have email battles with him at least once a week
Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,
He's accurate here
but the Reds had enough pitching to be 10-12 games over .500 on July 4th. Our perception of their chances would be a lot different if that had been the situation, even if the pitching had gone in the tank like it has.
I get the impression that Lance fancies himself somewhat of a stathead, but he tends to half-ass his way through the numbers.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
IMHO, these are the players that are replaceable enough
for next year to justify trading:
Weathers
Arroyo
Rhodes
Hairston
I think Burton and Nix have a moticum of value and could be pieces of a deal. In any case, they shouldn’t be on this team next year.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions
Also, Cordero (I just don't see it happening)
I could also see trading one – and only one – of:
Fisher, Manuel, Roenicke or Masset
to sweeten a deal if the Reds are at all close to getting a SS or OF who has a chance to play in the very near future. I would really hate to see Masset or Roenicke go, but the focus of the transactions from here until Opening Day 2010 is to use some of the talent surplus + budget space to get a major league offense back in Cincinnati.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree--probably won't be cordero.
yeah, we all know about his no-trade clause but that doesn’t mean a deal is completely out of the question…. i just don’t think many teams will want to take on his salary… then again, he was an All Star and there are teams in need of relief help with deep pockets.
those young guys definitely proved they can pitch at this level, but they are dirt cheap so i wouldn’t expect to get a whole lot in return. i could part with Manuel—he seems to have the highest value in the marketplace.
It's the salary and the no-trade clause
That combination probably only leaves one or two potential trade partners. That fact makes it really hard to get anywhere near value for him. And I’m not and advocate of trading Cordero just to clear salary.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
and I stand by my assertion that this team is going to have to acquire a SP
in the offseason. There’s a very good chance both Homer and Micah aren’t going to be able to hack it and would be better used in the bullpen. If Arroyo or Harang are dealt – that creates two openings in the rotation that I don’t think will be filled adequately by Travis Wood, Matt Maloney, Ramon Ramirez et al.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Competely agree.
Homer’s readiness will be evident in the up-coming month or two. Can he adjust, etc. But, this team has a hole in the pitching that won’t be unmade with Maloney or Wood.
Yes, but
if I’m not mistaken he has to be on the 25-man next year or he risks being exposed to waivers. Isn’t that how it works? If Homer keeps going this way, the options are bullpen or offseason trade.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That sucks.
I was not aware of that. Well, hopefully they give him the rest of the season to learn at the big league level (and fire Dick Pole).
Don't quote me on this
it’s just a half-remembered fact from a past thread. Was hoping someone in the know would correct or clarify.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
it is true
every major league baseball player has three options. The first option was burned when the Reds sent him down to AAA in 2007, the second option was burned when he opened 2008 in Louisville, and the third option was burned when he opened 2009 in Louisville.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 22, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The bullpen doesn't seem like the worst option for him either...
by Brendanukkah on Jul 22, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
fwiw
Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes have excelled in the pen, even though they struggled as starters.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
i have said it before
i would be disappointed if he became a great closer.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 22, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Assume you meant wouldn't
but for him to be a great closer he’ll need to gain some control, and if he gains control then he’s much more valuable as a starter. Not many guys can maintain 94-95 mph into the 6th or 7th inning. It seems like the common thing with Bailey is his location. If he can learn to consistenly locate (esp. his curveball) he’ll be the guy we all hope he can be.
In the meantime (2010) I wouldn’t hate seeing him in the pen.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
no i would be disapointed
All this hope for a guy to pitch only 70 innings a season, a guy who was described as having the abilities of Kerry Wood. I would be disappointed, I was looking forward to the Cy Young Awards, 300 wins, 250 strike out seasons.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 22, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but pitchers like that come across once every decade or so
To place that expectation on anybody, especially at 23 is completely unrealistic.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
i know but after all the hype
i know it is silly, but still he was the first big time reds pitching prospect in my life. I had a Jerry Narron heart moment.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 22, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer really needs to get pissed off
Gef aggressive
Get a chip on the shoulder
And start really going after every hitter with a vengance.
His control appears to be influenced by his confidence.Right now he’s not developed the frame of mind of a successful SP, let alone a closer.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
The Yankees
plan for Joba and Hughes to be starters. Their time in the pen was partly for roster reasons, and partly because of limitations on the number of innings they could pitch per season, as they ramp up to a big league work level.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Word on Twitter is that Adam LaRoche is about to be traded by the Pirates
Nobody seems to know where or for whom though.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Finally!
Walt makes a move. He’s going to play SS and do a left-handed AGon impersonation. Nice work, Walt
Pirates got two prospects
Argenis Diaz – one of the best defensive shortstops in the minors. No bat.
Hunter Strickland – a right-handed starter who Sickels called a sleeper. Statistically, he hasn’t shown much yet.
Not much return, but then Adam Laroche isn’t a big catch.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Pirates have made a few big trades
the day the Reds are looking up at them in the standings is the day I just commit to becoming a Carolina Mudcats fan.
here's one from
MLB trade rumors.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/adam-laroche-trade-close.html
to the Red Sox?
Boooo!
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't even get how he fits in there.
Doesn’t Youk play first? LaRoche is a nightmare defensively anywhere else.
Youk can play third
Not sure if Lowell is back (or is going to be back). Could just be insurance for that.
You knew it had to be the Red Sox, Yankees, or Cubs
The Pirates must be under an edict from MLB to give away their best players to those 3 teams.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
wow
Boston must think Lowell isnt coming back soon, so the Youk is going to man 3rd.
Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle
bestromanticcomedyever'd?
Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,
by 'tHan on Jul 22, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In other news,
Baltimore may be replacing the Reds at Sarasota in Spring baseball. Apparently they’re going to do something with a youth academy as well, which is more lucrative for the city.
i say:
trade bronson and his carpel tunnel but keep harang … he does a lot of good for the city, is a nice guy, really that expensive, and can be a mentor to our young core.
trade either rhodes or weathers, but keep one as a vetern presence in the bullpen.
anyone else other than votto and phillips can go as well. if this team trades either of those two i’m getting MLB extra innings so i can once again be a dodgers fan.
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
I feel the same way
Losing Harang would be a much bigger deal than losing Bronson, because of everything he does off the field too. The problem is, I don’t think anyone wants Arroyo and that huge contract.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
True,
teams have given way more than 11 mil per for innings eaters, and it’s only for one year, so it’s not a big risk.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
i meant to say that harang really isn't that expensive
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on Jul 22, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty bleak prospects for the Reds
The team is rapidly falling out of the race and the trading of pitchers like Bronson and Weathers would prolly only fetch more prospects. We’ve got plenty of prospects, what we need are producers. I don’t think that the Reds have the $$$$$ to buy or trade for Vet. Producers.
I do think we should keep Bronson,he eats innings and will prolly win 15 gamesor so for the next couple of years.
i’d move Aaron Harang while he still has some percieved value, and David Weathers too.
More frustrating is the lack of oportunities to acquire offense.Alas and alack..if only there had been a way to hang onto Dunnner.
I see the following holes that need to be filled to contend:
SP, SS, LF, CF and possibly 3B.
Here’s hoping that Bruce gets it together, Bailey finds himself, that Frazier rapidly improves, that Yonder moves quicly and that Dusty is replaced with an imaginitive young manager.
I wouldn’t want Uncle walt’s job in this economy that’s for sure.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
I don't think there are that many holes
In CF, even if Stubbs doesn’t produce, Dickerson has proven himself to be a capable centerfielder. EdE can be a league average 3B so that definitely isn’t a priority.
Also, I don’t think Harang has much more percieved value than Arroyo. You wouldn’t get much for either at this point, except salary relief.
To me the two big issues are SS and LF. LF should be relatively doable in the offseason, SS i’m not so sure about.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I see CF as a problem because C-Dick has really not proven himself to be league average
Not that he’sw had that much of a chance, playing in the giant shadow of Taveris.I agree that EdE may still get to be league average at 3B, this team cannnot contend with league average and replacement level players at C, SS, 3B,AND lf..
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
There's a big difference between league average and replacement level
EdE is league average, Rosie is replacement level.
Combining offense and defense, it’s safe to count on Dickerson to be a league average CF, as well as Hanigan and EdE. We could probably get an above average LF in the offseason, SS is the problem
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
especially since Drew could be the other end of that platoon
I mean, if Taveras had not signed a two year deal
I'm still holding out hope that works out
part of the reason I’m still watching this year is to root for Taveras to bomb so badly that they have no choice but to release him or at least demote him to 5th OF status
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Me too
because I think Willy makes a great 4th OF. He plays a decent CF, can pinch run, could fill in when someone else is hurt. I would be happy to have him play 2-3 times a week and pinch hit.
Face it, he might as well get used to it since that will be his role somewhere else when this contract is done.
we should play a prank on the media. Register a Twitter account under the media relation’s guy name and announce that we singed Willy to a two year extension. The amount of anger that would induce would be priceless
Didn't someone do that to Tony LaRussa earlier this year?
I think LaRussa’s suing the guy who did it.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
so you're saying it's a bad idea?
First of all, they’d get nothing from me: my debts far exceed my assets. Secondly, like I’d make it to trial. Some coalition of Hal’s blog readers, Fay’s posters, and “an RR road trip” would see that I was murdered by an angry mob long before trial.
BTW, you’re right about LaRussa. Maybe I should re-thing that. Hard to apply for a license when you just committed an interstate misdemeanor. The Indiana Bar may be corrupt (I stress maybe), but that would be too much for them:)
if by "young" you mean valentine or johnson, then i agree ...
on another probably unpopular side note, i’d really like the reds to give brantley a shot as the pitching coach. as moronic as he is in the booth, i really feel like he has a knack for situations and teaching. plus, like i said, it gets him out of the booth and gets merker in.
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on Jul 22, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
unless they could pull local boy greg maddux in as the PC
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
I really don't think we'll see much movement
I don’t think they’ll trade Arroyo or Harang til the offseason, if at all, and I think the low offers for the relievers means Walt won’t trade them either.
Also, I wouldn’t underestimate the importance they are placing on trying to finish above .500 for PR purposes. I don’t agree, I just get the feeling that’s still a major goal.
I would love to see Weathers go for something, and Arroyo in the offseason for a prospect and salary relief, but we’ll see.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
i was just getting ready to say the same thing ...
we have to remember that not many of us thought the division was gonna suck this bad …. i think, at least for me, that our man goal was a .500 or better season. i still feel like that is within the realm of possibility if we don’t get too crazy with things.
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on Jul 22, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's something I was thinking about last night
Almost everyone was predicting 80-84 wins back in March.
That’s still possible (as long as the pitching stops sucking)
I guess it’s easier to feel ok about an 80 win season in March than it is in July when it’s actually happening.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
we didnt anticipate injuries to volquez, bruce, votto, gonzalez, encarnacion and phillips
that’ll getcha.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
I'm with Boobs
less trades, more ROIDS!!!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with Farney less trades and more boobs!!!
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
I believe in this.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
As I've said lots of times
A .500 season doesn’t do anything for me unless that gets us into the postseason. The fact that management is aspiring to a scenario where they won’t make the playoffs tells me all I need to know about Big Bob and this team. All it gets us is a worse draft pick, and maybe some late season wins will mean big performances by young players.
Of course, this isn’t going to happen anyway, when Wes Bankston and Darnell McDonald are starting games in September.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
I agree
I’d rather call up some young guys, give them a shot, trade a couple old dudes, throw Taveras into the Ohio River,
and truly plan for next year. I felt like Walt really did that with Dunn/Griffey deals last year, then kind of ruined it in the offseason with Lincoln/Taveras, etc.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
"throw Taveras into the Ohio River,"
He’d miss……
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Walt may pull something extremely unexpected too.
Don’t put it past him.
Maybe he’ll find a way to deal Gonzo, Nix, Taveras (I’m dreaming on this one), Weathers, Burton, Arroyo
But I doubt it.
I’d expect more moves in the off-season than right now.
The market is essentially smaller now than in the winter.
Right now you have maybe 10 buyers and 20 sellers, where in the offseason you have 30 buyers and 30 sellers. I’ll wait if I have to.
Unless a team REALLY needs a Red, don’t sell your team out Walt.
One thing to consider is that if you are a “SELLER” now, you can really be considered an “EARLY BUYER” for next year. In every deal you’re getting something in return, so perhaps Walt tends to see himself as a buyer, but just for next year. That’s how I’d look at it.
That's a good point
There are always more sellers than buyers in July, so unless you are dealing CC or Halladay, you’ll probably sell for undervalue.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Only if there are more desperate teams than available resources
Last year, Dunn was scarce resource with a lot of value (even if he hates baseball)
There are tons of Weathers, Rhodes, etc. out there, and with guys like Halladay and Lee being talked about in trades, Arroyo/Harang become less scarce too. We don’t have any scarce resources, so no teams are going to be desperate for David Weathers.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
the sooner those guys are gone the better, I agree. Although I'd think a lot of teams would like to have Rhodes. I would.
Who knows, maybe we end up with a veteran in return for youngins. I’d hate that. I think there’s legs to a Burton trade. He’s a youngish, cheap, vet. Value, experience. We’ve got 2-3 Burtons waiting in line in AAA.
Burton has little value, though
He’s older, still mostly unproven, and not under team control for as long as a true prospect, besides being a reliever meaning he already has limited value.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
And by "July"
you mean “August.” For Dunn.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 22, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
to clarify, when I'm buying something at a swap meet, I know the guy down the row has the same thing
you do, so I drive the price down. I think buyers are at an advantage sometimes.
I guess if you can put yourself in the same shoes as the Phillies right now and inquire with crappy teams
you can enjoy a 11-19 buyer seller market. Start calling the Pirates and Royals!
See, everyhting I read says the opposite in terms of numbers
most every team sees themselves as still in the race, so there are tons of buyers, but no sellers. One of the reasons the Rosenthals of the world say nothing has happened yet is because the few selling teams are demanding ridiculous prices.
the force of last night's loss has left an impression that all the world is selling to the real contenders
just post traumatic response, I’d bet. Things are shaking out at the top of the NL I think though.
Man, the Dodgers look awesome and I have just seen their two lamest pitchers
That line-up (with the exception of Hudson) is money. Kemp, Either, Martin….and a guy at Triple A (Blake DeWitt) who could start at any three positions on this team
Crazy when the guy you don't like
is OPSing over .800
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
let's just right it up to small sample size or recent unwillingness to walk
and leave it at that. two switch-hitters at the top of the line-up, though? no wonder Torre loves this team. He can completely concentrate on destroying the bullpen with no worries about the line-up
yeah, maybe
I think a more accurate description would be 10 buyers, 10 sellers, and 10 waiters who don’t know what they are yet. Not sure what that does to the market except maybe slow it down
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
If we could sit down and talk with Bob,Walt and Dusty
I am certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are not even thinking of throwing in the towel for 09.
They’re sitting there saying:
Wait until Voltron is back, wait til Gonzo is back, wait til Bruce is back..
I think they would trad a pitcher or two for a LF bat or possibly a SS but that’s about as far as it will go.
Its the old “We’r only 5.5 out, all we need is to get on a roll and have other division teams hit a slump” dream.
Sigh.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
Were you posting in those Steel Curtain threads about Ben Roethlisberger?
I’m getting flamed hard @ CincyJungle.
Disappointed in Kirkendall right now.
If they're thinking that
and not also thinking they need to release Willy T and acquire an OF and SS before the deadline then they’ve probably also been locked in the same room for two months, peeing into bottles.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Sigh is right
This is the same song and dance every year. And every year they fall apart with injuries and players coming back to earth.
As soon as we get Volquez back, Cueto will get hurt. Bruce comes back, Dickerson goes on an extended slump. Gonzo comes back and starts hitting a little, Cherry will remember that he’s no good.
It really is depressing to be a Reds fan from July-January. By July we are out of it, and next year is way too far away to get excited about.
Who Dey??
"Avoid the Clap, Jimmy Dugan. That's good advice!"
easiest rec ever
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 22, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I am really ready for Dubai sheikhs to start taking an interest in Midwestern baseball
Shit, they’re already running out of EPL teams. You’re telling me that Portsmouth is an attractive team to buy? Didn’t any of the GIs teach you about baseball during the war?
Buy a team in Cincinnati, OH! They love Middle Easterners! (Everybody, just be cool.)
by Brendanukkah on Jul 22, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm all for Cincinnati doing something, ANYthing to be more than just another baseball team
but I find it hard to believe Bobby C, staunch friend of W, is going to sell his team to a bunch of Ay-Rahbs. Even though I would love for that to happen.
And shit! Onionbag isn’t selling the beautiful 06/07 Turkey shirts in a medium anymore. I really wanted this bad boy:
Well...who would you want from the Reds?
If I was a team gearing up for the playoffs, I would have faith in probably 20 guys on my roster, meaning I just had to tweak for cheap. Players I would be interested on the Reds would be:
-Gomes or Nix to fill in a PH slot or something
-CDick if I needed a flycatcher in CF or a defensive replacement
-aforementioned relievers; Weathers, Burton, Rhodes, whoever
Only a team that’s only pretending to be in it would be interested in an innings eater, I think (see: Reds trades for Dempster, Estes). Then again, it only takes one foolish GM to get a trade. I’d rather dump Arroyo, but that’s because I really like Harang and his general Severus Snape attitude of “I’m good at what I do, but I’ll be damned if you see me enjoying it.”
So there’s really not much to sell to a smart team. But that’s ok, because I’m convinced the Reds don’t need much: an SS and a 3B/LF sort. I’ve been rooting for a trade to the Angels for like, forever now, and I’d still like to see the Reds try to get Brandon Wood (if he can play 3B or LF, which I assume he can). If the Reds need to package some minor leaguers to do it, go for it.
I think the buyer/seller dichotomy is false. You can be a buyer while selling off some huge assets. Sell Arroyo and a reliever and Laynny, get something that you can use. Give Stubbs, Heisey, Dorn, whomever a September shot.
so wait
will Harang kill Dumbledore?
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd sell
And I think there will be buyers for what we have.
Pitchers like Arthur Rhodes are not a “dime a dozen”; he’s 2nd among LHP in ERA in all of baseball. Hairston can “play anywhere”. Even Arroyo and Weathers might look attractive to someone.
As for Harang, it’s awfully early to be throwing in the towel on him. His stats for k/9 (7.7), bb/9 (2.2), and hr/9 (1.3) are all awfully close to his career averages (7.5, 2.5, 1.2) and aren’t far from his stellar ‘07 (8.5, 2.0, 1.1). What has changed is his BABIP – it’s an amazing .347 this year, compared to .316 for his career and .298 in ’07. In other words, his poor performance can be attributed entirely either (1) luck or (2) bad defense.
Weathers and Hairston have the best contracts since they’re only signed for this year. Rhodes’ looks a little worse because of the 2nd year, but it’s still cheap ($2M). Arroyo’s is bad, but someone still might take a flyer, especially someone with a hole in their rotation. Harang’s contract looks the worst, because a trade (1) makes the ‘11 option mutual, and bumps it $1M, and (2) increases the buyout $500k. Luckily, I think he’s the guy the Reds shouldn’t trade unless they’re blown away.
I think the Reds have shown the bullpen can be OK (or even better than OK) without Rhodes/Weathers, if Dusty just gave them a chance. I also think the Reds at this point are better off with Arroyo’s money (or even part of it, if they have to pay some of his salary to make a trade) for next year.
If I were Jocketty, I would take literally anything of value for Hairston, Rhodes, Weathers, and Arroyo. While no one is likely to want him, obviously I’d trade Taveras too.
However, I would not throw in any type of quality player to facilitate a deal. Hairston and Weathers are effectively gone after this season; even if he’s still around, Rhodes’ salary shouldn’t be a factor in any other decisions. Even Arroyo isn’t worthless; he’d be overpaid, but would still look awfully nice as a #5 starter next year.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
I like what you're saying
though the more I think of it the pitching “depth” on this team seems to translate to an abundance of 5th starters, Arroyo included. The Reds need someone who can at least put up an ERA around 4.00 and there’s no indication that Owings, Bailey or Arroyo are that guy.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, look, the trade deadline's next week & we're sellers again...
With the way this team is run, I don’t really have much hope for next year, either.
But don't you worry, Daedalus, once 2011 (used to be 2010) comes around the Reds can compete
Wait until you hear the snappy 2011 jingle Walt’s working on to explain that by 2013 everything will be rosy. I’m told the 2013 youtube advertisement will be hysterical as fans are going to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the last World Series title with a run at contention.
Just be eternally patient, and those prospects are right around the corner.
This just isn't our century
wait until Ken Griffey, VI and Sirius Votto come up the ranks in 2109
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Are they still painting the town red?
Whatever happened to that song/band? Are they still playing it on the radio ads?
sirius? i was thinking more along the lines of frankie or tommy
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
Again...I think that walt won't do much wheeling and dealing until the end of August, if it all.
Bob and dusty are delusional.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
This should probably be a fanpost, but I've never done one and I refuse to do more than cut and paste
so there!
Nonetheless, Joe Sheehan of BP examined the chances of the Reds and Astros. Here’s the relevant part of the article
Resting just 2½ games further back, however, it’s a different story for the Reds. They’ve hung around much as the Astros have, being outscored on the season and featuring the next-to-worst third-order record in MLB, one that is even worse than that of the Nationals. They’re 44-48 because their veteran bullpen has been unconscionably good, the third-best in baseball this year with a 7.3 WXRL, giving them a 23-20 record in games decided by one or two runs. Predictably, their off-season moves have blown up, with Willy Taveras’ .291 OBP helping to cripple an offense that is 14th in the league in runs scored. Jay Bruce’s struggle developing hasn’t helped—he was hitting .207/.283/.441 when a broken wrist sidelined him. Dusty Baker failed to play his second-best OBP guy, Chris Dickerson, for a long stretch, falling in love with a brief show of power by Laynce Nix and the memory of Jerry Hairston Jr.’s 2008 season. Neither is helping, and while Dickerson is finally garnering more playing time, it’s come a bit too late.
The drop in offense was expected, but the poor performance by the rotation wasn’t. With two good young arms and two veteran innings guys, the Reds should have been positioned to win lower-scoring games this year. Instead, they’ve placed 21st in SNLVAR, as only Johnny Cueto has been notably effective. The great bullpen has helped, but all things considered, this team is not good enough to contend, even in a weak division.
Not being the Astros gives the Reds a tougher decision to make. They have a better farm system, though not a top one, and a younger core of talent. Not winning this season wouldn’t be the end of the world, and by making the decision to not worry about it, Walt Jocketty could position the team for more success down the road. Were he to heal up in time to be dealt and then deliver something in-season, Ramon Hernandez would be an upgrade behind the plate for a number of teams, and he isn’t carrying a big price tag. Bronson Arroyo and Aaron Harang are 32 and 31, young enough to contribute here, but perhaps better fits for contenders’ rotations. There’s simply no question that the aging anchors of this great bullpen, David Weathers, Arthur Rhodes, and Francisco Cordero, would have more value in the trade market than on the Great American Mound. The Reds have need for help up the middle, every spot. The core of Bruce, Cueto, Joey Votto, Edinson Volquez, Edwin Encarnacion, and Drew Stubbs is strong enough to be a contender for the next few seasons; Jocketty has to use the support around them now to make the support around them in 2011 much better. The Reds have to start selling, and quickly, taking advantage of the current seller’s market for talent.
These were two easy ones. The tougher calls, including some surprising ones, lay ahead.
Okay, so I didn’t know it looked that bad. Nonetheless, it’s good to know he likes the same people I do. Must mean I’m a math genius and can doing obscure things like 21st order wins and OPS+/SNVPL divided by WAR!
see my post above. If you like 2011 talk, you'll love the 2013 and 2015 talk
Snazzy ad campaigns and free counseling to people older than 30 who know better.
“The Cincinnati Reds: two years from now, we might be good!”
Fan Fever; Catch it!
I believe that
“Dusty Baker failed to play his second-best OBP guy, Chris Dickerson, for a long stretch, falling in love with a brief show of power by Laynce Nix and the memory of Jerry Hairston Jr.’s 2008 season”
is what pisses me off the most…
Either Joe Poz is on crack...
or he’s never seen Joey Votto hit.
Or, I now know why we’re so godawful terrible at the game of baseball.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/07/21/top.100/index.html
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 22, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions
seventy something
BP was 95. Ha.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 22, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, i just assumed they didn't even make the list
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
4th best OPS in baseball
Landed him 40some spots behind Ryan Howard and his 200 K’s and .840 OPS.
Somehow, I think that if Votto found himself in a Rollins, Victorino, Utley, VOTTO, Werth, Ibanez, Ruiz, Feliz lineup, he’d have been top 10.
Hence, I think Joe Poz is on crack.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 22, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. He's a KC guy.
I do think his rankings are skewed. He says BJ Upton is not in the Top 100 ‘right now’ but he puts Greinke at No. 4.
Is Greinke good? Yes.
Is he the best pitcher in baseball? No.
Why is this? Poz covers the Royals on a near-daily basis and Greinke is the only thing that doesn’t make his job a living hell.
His list, it’s rather BS.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Who is better than Greinke?
I don’t think there is a clear choice. The top 2 or 3 are debatable, and Greinke definitely belongs in that list.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Lincecum and Halladay
I’d take both of them before Greinke.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Greinke, I just don’t think he’s the best pitcher in baseball like Poz does. He would def be in my Top 5.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Top 5 pitchers that is.
Maybe Top 10 players.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i think that was the point
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
Sure was, but I wasn't combing thru the lists to see where he was
I have a pretty big test next week and I spend too much time on baseball anyway
yeah, my bad ... like i said, i just assumed he wasn't on there
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
package
we should trade bronson and weather to LA and get juan pierre!Than in the winter try to trade willy so you can dump some payrool for FA
I am. I would shoot Pierre at his press conference.
I was going to do the same thing to Taveras, but I was still laughing so hard at the second year of his contract, I missed my flight.
Juan seems like a good guy who works hard, but the last thing anyone I know needs is his ridiculous contract and low OBP
I know he played well. He's a fine 4th OF
If you weren’t paying him 55 million. But, look at his career OBP
Juan Pierre is dreadful.
Anyone can have a hot 50-games or so.
Just look at Lincoln.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He has. His haven't been all in a row though.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
His hot 50 games were 2 years ago
and they were why we acquired him.
I would MUCH rather spend $4 million Willy next season than $18.5 million for Pierre in 2010-2011
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 22, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Cannot rec this enough.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If Chris Dickerson is "trash" then..
Juan Pierre is a mostly empty goat cheese container sitting in a recycling bin.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 22, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
But you think Juan Pierre
is worth the money of three Taverases? Dickerson can get on base at around Pierre’s clip, play solid CF defense and hit for a little power. You’re not going to find anyone on the open FA market that’s worth going after to replace Stubbs or C-Dick.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to see Dickerson in there
from tonight forward. Hell, I’d take Hanigan there. Anyone but Tavares.
I mean anyone.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
True
but Stubbs isn’t here now.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't expect to see Stubbs until September
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
why?
Why start his clock if we have no chance of winning?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
he can do that in September
After rosters expand.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
no
That would be silly. They’ll wait until September, when rosters expand. That avoids a lot of roster headaches.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't expect to see Stubbs be more tha a number 4 or 5 OF at the MLB level.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
im with dusty though
y did we spend money on him if hes not going to play
Why do we have a DL?
We’re paying these players, they should shoot up some morphine and get back out there.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude.
Do you still leave a plate of cookies out from Santa Claus every Christmas Eve? No, you don’t.
You used to. Back when you thought your roof was a landing strip for reindeer and your chimney was wide enough for a morbidly obese Elf King to shimmy down and leave you Yodas and shit. You used to think all that. But you don’t think that anymore so you don’t leave cookies for Santa anymore.
You left cookies for Santa in the past but now you realize that maybe you didn’t need to and you’re not going to do it anymore.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 22, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ummm well, yeah i still leave out cookis for Santa....I mean.. its Santa
Rae keep this man away from children
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
Umm... sniff.... what...
… what are you trying to say Alan?
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Except Juan Pierre
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Drew Stubbs
I think he can post a .350+ OBP and play excellent defense in CF. Plus, he has some speed.
That’s good enough for me.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Agree. Do you think it makes sense
for Stubbs to come up right now – as a hypothetical? I know it’s gonna be a September call-up for budget purposes, but would an extra two months of MLB experience be worth starting the clock? I tend to think it would.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Stubbs will have any power
he’s barely slugged over .400 in the minors.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I don't see it...Stubbs just doesn't have the tools to make the jump.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
Based on what, Mads?
He easily has 3 of the 5 tools in buckets. He’s a very good baserunner with speed, plays the best CF defense in the minor leagues and has a really good arm.
Maybe he won’t hit for a high average or a ton of power, but he’ll take walks and get on base at a .350 clip like Slyde said. Combine that with 35 steals (he’s got 36 this year in 83 games) and elite CF defense and that’s one valuable player.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Godd baserunner, with speed and a an excellent defender
No average and no power…doesn’t sound like anything more than Wily or Co-Pat once Stubbs gets to the next level. he’s not going to get those AAA walks, and if his hitting is suspect now wait til he gets to face MLB pitching…that’s all
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
walk and K rate
are typically transferable to the majors. He won’t OBP in the .370s like he is now, but he could probably get into the .350s and that makes him drastically different from Willy or C-Pat…..not to mention he’s a better defender and baserunner than both of them.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
.350obp, good defense with speed
Sounds like Dickerson to me. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. I’m saying Baker already isn’t playing a guy like that in CF.
I wasn't asked who Baker should play in CF
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Rickey Henderson!
Major drop-off in hitting leadoff
Rickey Henderson may be 50, and although he is scheduled Sunday to be inducted into Baseball’s Hall of Fame, he still believes he can play.
Considering the dearth of leadoff hitters these days, says Cincinnati Reds general manager Walt Jocketty, “He just may be right.”
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
At least he might take a pitch ...
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
All for it
That’s just the kind of publicity stunt that could sustain interest in this lost season
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The Cincinnati Reds
It’s MLB baseball with an independent league feel!!!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Better than the International League feel
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
check out Willy's numbers thru the Az series
when the team was 26-20. That was his fifty games.
And, just because "anyone can, doesn’t mean a specific someone can. Anyone can win the lottery. Then, why haven’t I?
what would you want from LA then
i dont want a prospect i want a guy who can help us
Are you being realistic or hypothetical?
Hypothetically I’d take Kemp or Manny or Billingsly.
Realistically, there isn’t much there I’d want. Of course I don’t know their minor system as well as others, but from what I’ve read there isn’t anything that great they’d be willing to give up.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
blake dewitt
Her’e something to make everyone’s head explode. Stubbs, Aroyo, and Weathers/Rhodes for Kemp.
Still wouldn’t be enough, I imagine, but that’s what I would want
I would do that in a heartbeat.
LA’s GM would laugh Walt off the phone. They’d be taking on a ton of salary, for one thing.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Did I say they would take it?
They would not by the way. They’re talking trading for Roy. That IS a ton of salary. Besides, you know they mint money in the bowels of that Stadium. That team is a gold mine.
True,
but taking on salary for Roy Halladay and taking it on for Bronson Arroyo are two different things.
Where do they rank in salary, btw? I imagine it’s top 3 or 4.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
the solution is not to give him more players who can't hit
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Aw
My guess was a swift kick in the crotch.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 22, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
...or a 3-day weekend tutorial seminar in the Florida Keys
on how baseball is.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 22, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Crolfer Way
I drove on that street in St. Louis – it is down near the riverfront…kinda shady if you ask me.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
You're more than forgiven. I assumed he either wasn't there or was very low
I read the first ten spots and realized it would take 20 minutes. I ran away quickly
Red Sox are busy today
Chris Duncan goes to the Bo Sox for Julio Lugo
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
Welp, someone's not fucking around.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't love to be the guy to tell Dave Duncan?
Hey, Dave, do your kids ever drive you crazy?
Yeah, mine too….well good news for you then….
I'm not sure about that
both guys are marginal players, Duncan’s just a lot younger and cheaper (of course, St. Louis doesn’t have to pay Lugo anything)
Isn’t it true, though, that if St. L had just waited a few days they could’ve signed Lugo for league minimum and not given anyone up? If so, this seems kind of stupid on their part.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
The internet was abuzz with Mets interest. They were waiting the ten days out
Duncan doesn’t make enough contact to be THAT valuable.
Hey, does this mean we can get Khalil Greene?
Not really
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 22, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
So now it's that time of the season where you either tune out
or find something else besides winning and reaching the playoffs to root for.
My partial list is as follows:
- Taveras is DFA-d
- Hanigan wins ROY
- Harang and Arroyo (assuming they stick around) have big second halves
- Cueto rights the ship
- Volquez comes back with his mechanics intact
- Some transactional indication by the end of August that this team knows what it’s lacking to be competitive
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions
Although I hate football,
in my part of the country, Jesus will be apeearing soon, errr Peyton Manning*
*Seriously, the football loving morons think of him as Jesus. They wear “what would Peyton Manning do” bracelets, although the obvious answer is “a commercial.”
Yeah
Colts football is interesting in September when they are 4-0 and less interesting in January when they are showing Hoosier hospitality to which ever AFC team with a running game has come to demolish them. I mean, I’m only an associate at a law firm, so I’d have to get a home equity loan to watch a game in person in the Stadium my tax dollars paid for, but professional sports are apparently the new public religion.
In that vein, touching Peyton heals all injuries
That's good to know
I’ve been touching something else and my eyesight is starting to go.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 22, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd first try to touch Peyton on your TV screen. You can usually
find him on one channel or another, starting in August, 24 hours a day. There are three seasons in Indiana: Peyton, Spring, and Summer.
If touching him on yout tv doesn’t work, you can generally find him somewhere in Indy. Beware, though, after watching him for this long, I’ve noticed he doesn’t like to get touched. Whenever he feels like he might get touched, he generally dances around like Fred Astaire and then chucks a football into a crowd. To be safe, make sure you don’t bring relatives! They could be injured by the random footballs.
Can't wait
/So glad I have College FB and BBall to make up for these shitty teams
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate the Bengals
I really do. There’s very little to like, from the Mike Brown to 10 arrests in a calendar year.
And the Reds are headed down that road, goodwill-wise.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure have.
Also, the Mid-90s Cowboys blow the Mid-00s Bengals out of the water.
Chris Henry has a long way to go (both on the field and off) if he ever wants to catch Irvin.
Difference? Barry Switzer and company weren’t dumb enough to get caught night in and night out.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 22, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant a couple years back
- and the ire is mostly directed at Mike Brown.
That franchise has alienated an entire generation of fans – or should have – if they didn’t run a heavily-subsidized tailgate party.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
am i right
I think Mike brown and Walt jockety traded places
Damn, what the fuck has RR been eating?
Creatine?
Colin Auscapee: RR Emeritus Par Excellence, OB-GYN Esquire III
Are U comparing us to Brady Anderson?
Because we don’t like productive CF’s around here and we damn sure don’t like the implication
If I thought I could get Bedard and a 10 mil dollar bat I'd dump both Harang and Arroyo
just throwing that out there. Votto, please report to Left Field immediately.
Dr. Kremcheck, please report to Mr. Bedard's residence. You will be needed 24 hours a day
by timb116 on Jul 22, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha, rec'd
As if we need another medical nightmare on this team.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
trading Harang and Arroyo and then looking for a free agent SP in the winter is an intriguing prospect
here’s a list of decent SPs hitting the market next season:
Erik Bedard
John Lackey
Brett Myers
Rich Harden
that’s it. do any of these guys look to you to be head-and-shoulders above Harang and Arroyo? because they will be more expensive. Bedard, Harden, and Myers have injury issues and Lackey looks to get the biggest deal for pitchers. if he doesnt end up re-signing with the Angels he’ll likely go to the Mets. so, this is a bad idea. i think we need to stick with both Harang and Arroyo through the end of next season if we want any hope of competing. there just arent any better pitchers available at the price.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 22, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions
I certainly don't think trading Harang is a good idea
but I’m by no means convinced we can’t do better than our currentlly-composed rotation with the salary we may be able to clear in trade and lapsed contracts.
Now that we’re past midseason you have to take a good long look at the back of the rotation:
Arroyo – 5.07 ERA, 1.46 WHIP
Owings – 5.33 ERA, 1.62 WHIP
Bailey – 7.63 ERA, 1.66 WHIP
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 22, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading this thread makes me want to throw up
If we trade no one, then it’s the same old same old. If we do trade away our veterans, then we probably go in the tank even more. And still, Walt & Bob won’t bring up Stubbs and Heisey until September because they won’t want to start their major league clocks too early.
It’s a no win situation. One that says to me bring on the Bengals and Bearcats.
Bearcat Football should be funner than ever this season...
Xavier men’s and women’s BB looks good and UC’s men’s BB team may be close to competing in the big east this year. Women’s are going to struggle.
what’s that Bengals?
HA HA H A HA HA HA HA HA HA ArHHHHHHHHHHHH
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
This could be Palmer's last year. He will get injured. But we shan't speak of that shit around here.
Gray, this is the texting age...UkWIM?
ur so rt. no mo da textwording.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
Lineup
Dickerson RF
Taveras CF
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Nix LF
Encarnacion 3B
Hairston SS
Hanigan C
Arroyo P
Fay also reports that Danny Richar will have season-ending shoulder surgery.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
At least C-Dick is lead off.
That’s one step in the right direction.. Now if we could get someone other than Taveras at #2, and replace Hairston with a real (good) shortstop and replace Nix with a legit LF, we’d be great.
Well, we'd be less bad.
But at least Hanigan is still batting eighth?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
ohhhhh
sick burn.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
what's a Dusty to Do !!!
Dickerson RF – Good # 4 0r #5 OF
Taveras CF – Good # 4 0r #5 OF
Votto 1B Contender
Phillips 2B Contender
Nix LF Replacement
Encarnacion 3B Barely league averaage
Hairston SS Utility/replacement
Hanigan C rookie – not hitting well right now
Arroyo P more power than wily
It is really hard to be in contention with this group on the field. Unless Bronson allows 1 run or less.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
one run might do us in ,,, as you will notice our only run last night is sitting the bench tonight
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
To be fair
We did have three runs last night.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 22, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, but the other two came after i went to bed so they didn't happen
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
Dickerson's numbers are on par with all the average CFers according to mlb.com
I see no reason to rip Dick. And defensively, he’s one of the best CFers in the game right now. EE’s numbers his last 2 years were right on par as average compared to all mlb third basemen. He’s not that bad, but nor is he a stud. I see no reason to rip EE. Plus he has a broken wrist earlier in the season.
Tried it; was disgusted.
I like some fruity beers, but that one was just gross.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
I'm glad I just tasted it at a bar...
didn’t even have to buy a pint, thank god.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
That reminds me,
I tried Christian Morelein at the Machine Room on Saturday. Awful. Terrible. Made me ill.
I feel deja vu. I think I may have red reported this already. Like 6 times.
Did you try the Ale or the Lager
I can’t stand the Ale, though I don’t like Ales in general, but I think Lager is decent.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I think the Machine Room only has the lager
And the ale is much much better.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 22, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes it was the lager
I know because I stood there directly in front of the tap for 15 minutes waiting for the fucking bartender to stop talking to Scrabbles’ and get back to work.
I had some of that CM Lager and I liked it because Ash paid for it!
She’s so nice….meanwhile jch still owes me hundreds of beers
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
she was totally in to me
happens all the time. now that im married, of course.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 23, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that's right
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
the tap definitely said lager.
It could be wrong. And actually, it tasted more like a bad ale than a bad lager, and it was cloudy like an ale.
No
I meant the Ale is not much much better
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Oh
Yeah, it totally is.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 22, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You can be wrong if you want to
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I just remember during one of the earlier games
being disappointed they didn’t have the OTR up there. So I’m assuming it’s the Lager House.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 22, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree - Lager in the Machine Room.
Have not had the ale.
"Sir, can you please put your pants back on?"
you had the ale
I bought one for you at the stand outside of Larosas when we went to the game with Madville & D2
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Heh, well, I'm glad someone pays attention to these things.
"Sir, can you please put your pants back on?"
THE REAL DEAL
Everyone on this roster not named Votto or Phillips is tradeable. We need real talent, REAL talent. Dickerson? Encarnacion? Taveras? Get rid of them all I say. Harang and Arroyo could be dealt for a no miss prospect. We just got swept by the Dodgers and unless you find a way to compete with a team like that, it’s a waste of time. We don’t have a Manny Ramirez (which is fine). I’d rather have a Pujols, Fielder, Tori Hunter, type of player anyway, but we need a legit hitter. No, don’t bring back Dunn either. I want someone who can hit. I was excited to see Bruce might have been that guy, but honestly, I don’t think he is. He’s another .220/40/99 type of guy. We need a .300/35/110 type of player. Quit spending twice the amount of money on a reliever (Cordero) and start spending what little money we have wisely. Hernandez, Arroyo, Harang and Cordero eat up most of our payroll. Trade them, trade them all!!!! Then, go get a Halladay, Figgins and a Jason Bay or something for what we pay these guys. I’m getting tired of being a Reds fan especially since we keep making the same mistakes with our roster…..and by all means, get rid of Dusty Baker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For now, I will trust in Walt, bu he is walking a thin line on thin ice….
HEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYAAAAAHHH!!!
I have robot insurance.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Jul 23, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I believe I just shit my pants with laughter.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 23, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
you might want to see a doctor
perhaps howard dean.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 23, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never walked a thin line on thin ice
sounds tricky
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
So, you're proposing a deal with the Twins?
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jul 23, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Tirtle where you been -
Dang i never thought you’d be into the Cadaver Girls….
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
if youre tired of being a Reds fan
you can head on over Lets Go Tribe! seems like you would fit right in.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 23, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Hm.
Bruce might have been that guy, but honestly, I don’t think he is. He’s another .220/40/99 type of guy. We need a .300/35/110 type of player.
You want Bruce to accrue eleven more RBI but you’re going to insist that he does it while hitting fewer home runs?
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 23, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
YEAH!
LET’S TRADE HARANG AND ARROYO FOR PUJOLS! AND TRADE EVERYBODY ELSE FOR CHONE FIGGINS!
HOLY CRAP DUDE YOU SHOULD BE THE GM
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
Seems like only yesterday we were all sitting around gromping about trading Co-pat at the deadline
I certainly understand why Slyde is losing patience…The Red’s are like a low grade addiction – just enough to keep you hooked, but not enough of a high to make it worth your while to keep robbing your Grandmother’s purse to get the next fix.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
The Reds are Virginia Slims!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 23, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
ah, smuggled Virginia Slims
the only way to finance a low-grade civil war while smoking like the Ab Fab girls.
Ah, screw that old hag.
She was skimming profits on scratch-offs at the bingo, the least I can do is rob from the thief.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Jul 23, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Pitcher
When is the upper office going to step up to the plate and get some pitchers? For the past two years we have set idlely by a listened to them. Them stating that we are going to improve our team,; but nothing has changed. Mr. Baker you need to be a coach and demand CHANGE. Our Pitching is horrible, and if you dont think so, its time to get a new pitching coach. Or worst case scenro. A new coach
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