Red Reposter - 7/21/09
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 21, 2009 12:00 PM EDT
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Ken Rosenthal says the Reds have pitching depth to offer in trade
but few teams will want the likes of Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, and Francisco Cordero due to their hefty contracts. He says they are more likely to wait until the winter to move Arroyo. He also says the Reds sent a scout to watch the Angels and Dodgers low-A teams duke it out the other night. Both teams are looking for relief help. -
Edinson Volquez threw off the mound for the first time since hitting the DL
and threw 30 pitches at about 67% effort. Said Dick Pole, "He threw with no effort and no distress. I was surprised how well he located after not throwing for so long off a mound." -
Hall o' Famer Hal tells us about Craig Tatum's first taste of the big leagues
"...Tatum and pitcher Homer Bailey shared a cab to get from Century City, where the Cincinnati Reds stay, to Dodger Stadium, and when the numbers quit clicking the meter read $60. Tatum figures he can cross the entire state of his native Mississippi in a cab for less than $60. Welcome to the big city — and the big leagues." He seems like a pretty good guy. Congrats on making it Craig. -
Jared Burton is happy to be back in the big leagues
He was not at all happy when he was sent down. "The first few days I was a little bitter," Burton said in the visitors' clubhouse at Dodger Stadium. "But being around those guys down there -- they have to have one of the best coaching staffs down there in the game with [manager] Rick Sweet, [pitching coach] Teddy Power and [hitting coach] Smokey Garrett. Being around them and the players, they have fun and win almost every day. I made the best of it and got in a lot of games." -
FanGraphs has rounded out their list of players with the most trade value
and I'm confused as to why Joey Votto didnt make their list. Jay Bruce comes in at 26, but Joe Hercules isnt even an honorable mention. I think the most shocking part was that as they were counting down into the top 20 I expected him to be in the next 5 every time he didnt show up. Would you rather have Josh Beckett? Prince Fielder? Robinson Cano? Ben Zobrist? I know I'm asking a partial audience, but... -
The Pirates offered contract extensions to Jack Wilson and Freddy Sanchez last week
and both summarily turned them down without a counteroffer. This led the Pirates to believe that little hope remained to resign the two. But apparently there was some miscommunication and the two are willing to negotiate. It looks like Sanchez is going to meet the requirements for his vesting option (600 PAs gives him $8 mil for next season) but Wilson's option is a club option worth $8 mil as well. I can see trying to renegotiate with Sanchez to try and get a more reasonable number for him, but Wilson is worth little more than the leadership tag. And all of his bellyaching about trading off veterans like Nate McLouth has to be really grating on management.
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someone said this the other day
but is brandon wood a possibility for us? Cuz he would be awesome.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
what gives with him?
I know he’s the poster-child for prospect mismanagement now that Andy LaRoche is in the big leagues, but why has he never gotten more than 157 PA in a big league season? Why are the Angels holding him in AAA for the third year in a row? Has the PCL boosted his numbers too much?
Also, what’s his defensive rep?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
his defense is supposed to be fine at 3B
but i think he’s a butcher at SS
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 21, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
as credible as Halladay or Holliday
I mentioned him the other day because of the rumors of scouting the Angels and Dodgers. Given the Reds need at SS, I wondered aloud if Wood would be available, would he?
Burton's quote makes me sad.
they have to have one of the best coaching staffs down there in the game with [manager] Rick Sweet, [pitching coach] Teddy Power and [hitting coach] Smokey Garrett
yeah i didnt want to editorialize on that one
but sheesh. it’s really taxing to hear our players always praising every coach but the ones we hired.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 21, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I really feel like we should give them all a shot at managing in the majors
I mean they really can’t be any worse that what we currently have. But it seems like all of the players have nothing but praise for them. And obviously they are doing something right, because the Bats always seem to be winning.
by wishfuldrifter on Jul 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably more at Pole and Jacoby ...
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 21, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If we trade Harang...
…add in the fact that we could deal Arroyo during the winter and then our rotation is weak with Volquez, Cueto, Bailey (unproven), Owings (if he’s here), Maloney (unproven) without any guarantee that we’ll get an arm in free agency. we know what we’ll get with Harang. yes, his strikeouts are down, but he pitches a lot of innings and for the most part he’s kept us in a lot of games.
i don’t believe he’ll get us anything worthwhile in return either. i wouldn’t get out of bed for anything less than a major-league ready player and it would almost have to be a pitcher. t i hate trading proven pitching for pos. players.
he has one year left… if he’s sucking at this time next year, then we deal him. i’d gladly have him back as my ace for next season.
I don't hate those kind of trades, but the position player better be as close to a known commodity as possible
if you’re dealing 200 IP.
Anybody see
what Baker said after the game about BP?
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a3d2390b3-e3e2-49eb-82aa-e6bc210478b2&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com
yeah, there was a lengthy discussion about it in the game wrap
starting here.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
He didn't actually say fucked, did he?
This leads me to believe that Fay really bleep out “screwed”…
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
It may not be Fay but the Enquirer ...
they’re family-friendly, ya know.
Also, I remember (roughly 10 years ago) when some church group wrote a letter to the editor complaining about the word ‘screwed’ and how it was not appropriate for the children to read. So, yeah.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 21, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 21, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Who cares what he said!
BP makes stupid desicions gets up and he smiles about it.I really wouldnt be suprised if we traded him.Im sick of players who play stupid hes overated to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!
Fanpost?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 21, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He does make a lot of stupid decisions
But I’d be willing to wager that the runs he saves with his glove are more than the runs he may or may not give up with his “stupidity”
by wishfuldrifter on Jul 21, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
remember when you said, "The runs he saved is equal to the runs he gave?"
Is that true?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Paul: I've found in my life that, yes, it's true.
Chris: Awesome!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 21, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
what it is
Bp is like the chad johnson of the reds
Why wouldn't you be surprised if we traded him?
He’s one of the best 2B in the league, and is signed to a long-term deal. Why is he overrated to begin with?
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 21, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
low A teams?
I hope the Reds are considering some of the available relievers as sunk costs and kicking in some of the cash owed in order to get better prospects.
The two best hitters for the Angels in Low-A are
Alexia Amarista, a 20-year old 2B hitting .310/.386/.440 and Beau Brooks, a 21-year old catcher/DH hitting .281/.410/.434. No idea what kind of prospects these guys really are though.
The two best hitters for the Dodgers in Low-A are 23-year old Kyle Russell, a right fielder hitting .272/.368/.556 with 26 doubles and 21 HR and 22-year old Jaime Pedroza, a 2B hitting .263/.360/.443.
Since stuff matters as much as polish at the Single-A level, I’m not sure who any pitchers of interest might be.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I think I'd like to see what Owings can do in the bullpen next
year if they’re not going to package him in a trade. Though he’s likely to compete with Homer for fifth starter spot next spring, I don’t think he looks like a big-league starter – at least not one the Reds can afford to have pitching every fifth day.
Harang should stick around and be a fourth starter at worst. If Arroyo has a solid second-half you can deal him in the off-season. Clear some salary and pick up one of the following from the FA market for at least a one-year deal:
John Lackey, Randy Wolf, Jarrod Washburn, Erik Bedard, Rich Harden, Todd Wellemeyer, Justin Duchscherer
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions
I agree that the Reds cant afford to have him every 5th day as is
However, if the Reds could get some actual offense, it might not be that bad. He gives up a lot of runs, but he does have bright spots as well. Even if you take the current lineup and just rearrange it so that we actually have runners on base in front of the right people, we’d be in much better shape, and the pitching wouldn’t need to be perfect all the time.
by wishfuldrifter on Jul 21, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The much deeper problem here is clearly the offense
but I don’t expect it to improve enough next year to cover his current 5.33 ERA / 1.615 WHIP and weak peripherals with no apparent help from the coaching staff.
The Reds got a 7.47 ERA out of the 5th spot last year, which is a nightmare. That’s been improved by 2 runs a game, but I think it could be further improved by acquiring a proven arm who has better stuff and eats more innings. It’s going to be cheaper to do that than to try and pick up a couple top shelf free agent bats.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
and the Reds will win 2 more games?
why try to marginally improve at 5th starter when the real problem is the offense?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I didn't say they shouldn't pick up a bat
- they clearly have to. But it’s cheaper to get a starter and couple that with offensive improvements at CF, SS and LF rather than try to run down Holliday and whatever other expensive FAs the Reds would fantasize about netting. Couple the offensive improvements with a lower threshold for run production in the back of the rotation – not having to score 7+ runs to win – and that translates to more than a 2 run improvement.
My basic point is that just because Owings > Belisle, that doesn’t mean he has a lock on the 5th starter spot. He doesn’t look like he’s figuring it out.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather see a dramatic improvement at one of the offensive positions
plus small improvements at the other two than spend money to replace Micah Owings. Not saying that Owings should automatically get the spot. Just saying that it’s more important to get significantly better offensively than to worry about getting slightly better in the fifth spot in the rotation.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 21, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We're not in disagreement
but it’s the art of the possible. I don’t see dramatic improvement, ie a topline free agent who likely would have to be paid Cordero money, as being as feasible as picking up a LF, SS and SP – losing a CF – all of which mean improvements and don’t involve putting all the organizations excess money in one basket. Going after Bay or Holliday doesn’t give the team much flexibility. I’d love to have either of those fellas, but signing them up on the Reds budget makes for too many contingencies. What if that big LF bat gets injured? What if Jay Bruce doesn’t perform? What if you can’t justify eating Taveras’ salary? Who’s going to play SS? What if one or more of: Harang, Arroyo, Bailey and Owings isn’t servicable? It’s a safe bet least one of them will be injured next year for a considerable amount of time, while another will probably flunk out as a starter.
I think we’re both on board that you have to adopt a diversified approach. I just think this includes shoring up the rotation – in addition to making improvements to LF, SS and adding by subtracting in CF – and acknowledging that its imprudent for the Reds to try and make the dramatic improvement at one position that shelling out $15M would require.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Plus, why spend money for a 5th starter when you’ve got a plethora of minor leaguers on the verge of exploding in their pants?
Maloney
Stewart
Wood
Not to mention Thompson, Lecure, Ramirez, and Klinker.
How do you Wood isn't either?
Pitching’s hard work. Ask Homer. A 1.21 ERA at Double A is nice,but proves nothing. Personally, I want to see more Daryl Thompson
Want to see more Daryl Thompson?
Go throw out your right shoulder and post a 6.59 ERA in 28.2 innings in AAA. I don’t want to see him in Cincinnati at all this season.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 21, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
done and
they wouldn’t let me pitch. Something about a contract and me being 40 and only hitting 68 when I was 17. I figured he was hurt, but I don’t keep track of the Bats and their coaches and goings on as much the guys who do a good job on the minor league notes.
As a matter fact, since this is buried six replies deep, I’d like to thank Charlie for the reposters and you and Brendanukkah for the game recaps and minors highlights. And, obviously to Slyde. You guys make being a fan of this benighted team more interesting and more fun.
I think the organization agrees with you
In the 2 appearances he had after coming back from injury number 2, he was in the bullpen before injury 3. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him stay there in the long run, with all of the starters this organization has in the high minors.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 21, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Slyde and most everyone
else that has been watching this team’s futility over the last decade, I think 2010 is D-Day. They need to compete next year. I don’t have much faith in anyone on your list pitching better than Matt Belisle circa 2008 next year and being an important piece to the puzzle.
And we’re not talking strictly about a 5th starter here. We still don’t know if Arroyo will be here or be serviceable next year, Harang could break down, Volquez isn’t back yet and the lasting effects of his injuries aren’t know, Bailey is still an unknown quality. If it’s affordable, you need to get someone else in the mix who can pitch a full year in the MLB and give you a couple brilliant performances that could translate to post-season success.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
A post-season worthy team
does not have three starters who could go off the rails at any moment and throw up 10 runs in the first couple innings or walk 7 batters. This team, as currently composed, has 3 of them. My suggestion is that – along with offseason moves that improve the offense – they pick up a SP for the right price in trade or free agent bucks.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
your statement that 2010 is D-Year for the Reds is an interesting thought and might inspire a fanpost
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Jul 21, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It's entirely plagiarized from Slyde
but I think it’s something that could be a rallying cry. There needs to be a sense of urgency about things which has been lacking over the last decade. The fuzzy feelings leftover from the Big Red Machine and ‘90 WS are fading. it’s going to be hard for the fanbase to care about a perennial fourth and fifth place team that doesn’t have the will to win while the city faces much deeper problems.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanted it to 2009
Bob promised me, got rid of my favorite two players (okay one of them needed to retire, but I digress) and told me we would try.
I still hold out hope, although it is faint.
Me too
but Bob/Walt took the money and spent $14.15M of it over 2 years on Taveras, Lincoln and Weathers (I know Weathers has been good, but I think his performance when this season is up will have been replaceable by a league minimum minor league arm).
The money saved from these three ill-advised signings could have have gotten a bat and some room to breath to build the 2010 team. Now they’re hamstrung by a couple oversized contracts (Cordero and Arroyo), a couple . Unless they deftly navigate the next 9 months of transactions and luck out with Bruce and Volquez bouncebacks, Homer’s sticking and the emergence of at least one of their prospects, 2010 looks a lot like another stepping stone season – in which case, fuck ‘em. I don’t want to actively support a team that wastes millions of dollars not understanding what qualities are necessary in a good baseball player.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you remember when Walt admitted he never he talked to Abreu!
I know, he’s old and left-handed, but he also was a whole 5 million. His OBP in a tougher league and a tougher park is .399. His OPS would be close to .875 or .900 if he played in GABP.
It hurts me almost as when Jose Rijo broke his ankle stealing in a 0-0 game. Crazy and useless….
a lot has been made of that
but i dont abreu would have come to the reds for $5 million. i think he gave the angels the LA/contender discount. it probably would have cost cincinnati twice that much to sign him
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
No way. He signed on February 13th
He would have signed for around 5 million. Man, this “free agents don’t want to come here” mantra is unprovable. This team hasn’t tried in the first place and baseball players will chase money. They have to. They have very limited careers and they have to make the cash where it’s offered
equal deals for $5M
and the Angels would’ve won. But, we may have been able to get him for $6M.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Jul 21, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
bobby abreu has made $80 million in his career
he’s not hurting for cash. he doesnt “have to chase money.” lots of players in all sports go to better teams for huge discounts because they want to contend and be in a positive atmosphere in the twilight of their careers. if i were abreu, and it was the angels paying me $5 million vs. the reds paying me 9, there’s no doubt id go to LA.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
Explains why you're not an MLB player
As Adam why he’s in DC? ‘Cause if there’s one thing my 40 years and Jack Clark’s bankruptcy has taught me, it’s that if Bobby has made 80, he has spent 79.5. The difference between playing on the West Coast, where he’s never played before and playing for the Reds is not 4 million.
Not only that, while we pretend to know the mind of Bobby, if money were of no concern to him, he would negotiated with the Yanks. He asked for 48 million and then dropped that to 30. He signed a one year deal, I think, so he could get that contract next season.
Thus ends my psychic invasion of the mind of Bobby Abreu. I think you are probably right that he would have required more than 5, but how do we know, since Walt never even called.
he asked for a long-term deal and couldnt find one
so he settled for a one-year deal to try the market/economy again next year. why do you think he’d rather spend that year in cincinnati than in LA where he will win and already has friends?
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
i don't blame the reds for Weathers
the Reds offered him arbitration, and I doubt they planned to resign him, rather they hoped to gain a draft pick. The economy lowered Weathers value so he realized he wouldn’t do any better on the open market than in Cincinnati, so he accepted arbitration.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 21, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
the issue the Reds face
is they can’t get the stars to align correctly for 1 year like the Marlins have done twice and like the White Sox and D-Backs did a few years ago. They’re having players peak at different times.
Imagine this team with Arroyo/Harang of 3/2 seasons ago respectively, plus Volquez of last year and Encarnacion and Gonzalez of 2 years ago and Homer of a year or two in the future. It wouldn’t matter that the team wasn’t scoring 5 a game, they’d only be giving up 3.5 a game with Arroyo/Harang at their peak with Volquez and Cueto.
This year, you’re seeing spectacular bullpen work, average starters, and terrible hitters.
Two years ago, it was average starting, above average hitting, and terrible bullpen work.
Before that, it was bad starting, average bullpen, and horrible starting pitching.
The question becomes when to completely tear down. That may involve trading guys like Joey Votto or Edinson Volquez so you can have an entire team that peaks at the right time.
This, I believe, is one of the biggest differences in how a small market team has to win world series versus how larger market teams compete.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Jul 21, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
another thought along the lines of big market vs. small market
Charlie Scrabbles said in his 7/17 Reposter that the contract given to Julio Lugo, 4 years $36M, would sink a small-market team like the Reds. Remember how heavy that 3-year $25M contract we gave to Eric Milton felt? I think that experience, plus the experience the Reds are having with Arroyo have convinced me it’s not worth it to go more than 1 year past arbitration with starters – like the Marlins do.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Jul 21, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Years ago (literally)
back in the 80’s the Commish used to have management meeting where owners would have to discuss why they EVER gave a starting pitcher more than three years, since most starters near free agency get hurt.
I still subscribe to that idea. In Arroyo’s case it was the BoSox who gave him that contract, not the Reds and it’s not that bad of a contract. It also does not hamper them. One has to spend money to put a winner on the field. Doesn’t mean you give out Zito contracts, but three year contracts seem reasonable.
P.S. I wouldn’t cite the Marlins as an organization to emulate, except their scouts. Had I been a Marlin fan once, I think I’d be a Dolphin now
Reds gave him a 2-year, $25M extension
$2.5M in 2008 (when he was under contract for $3.95M), $9.5M this year, $11M next, $2M buyout.
I guess I expected my other team (A’s) to suck this year, but I think the Reds are by far the more frustrating organization. I think I’d trade for the Marlins results in the past 10 years because they are always building for something.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Jul 21, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh damn, you're right. I forgot about that
That 2 million buyout looks intriguing doesn’t it. Talk about tempting. Thanks for the correction.
and if this team crashes and burns in the second half
(instead of staying kinda mediocre) then maybe it’s time.
But it's not just an accident of timing
it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how valuate talent and maximize return on investment. That involves accurately weighing the value of outside hires vs. cheaper / in-house solutions. If Reds regimes were at all enlightened, they would know bullpen arms, while important, are overpriced. They would know Willy Taveras is not a major league starter. There goes over $15M doled out to Willy and CoCo this year alone that you could have spent in much shrewder ways.
Part of the issue is turnover. There’s been no continuity because ownership, GMs and managers have come and gone in periods smaller than the slow-burn needed to develop a budget contender. It’s no surprise that the talent hasn’t synced up because of the incoherent philsophies applied to drafting and acquiring talent – and then putting that talent to work throughout the system.
The Reds are backwards, simply put – but if they can’t win next year with some money to spend, a great young core and a breadth of above-average prospects – then they are truly lost and in need of complete management overall. This would likely put them on the Pittsburgh Pirates 20 year plan.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
$20M for 4 bullpen arms is too much - I agree
Starting rotation + closers are over $45M, leaving $28M for position players. But if you look where that money goes, $8M to Hernandez, $5.375M to Gonzalez – half of the money for marginal, when healthy, players!
We have short-term memories, though. Cordero was brought in to correct a problem with the Reds of 2007 – I believe we had among the most games we entered the 7th inning tied or in the lead, but couldn’t close them out. As management typically does, they assume the team would repeat its performance and the addition of 1 player would be the salve that would push the team over the top.
There has to be a master plan at some point, not just adding a piece here or there. So let’s say that we add Matt Holliday for 2010, would that be enough, or would we be looking back in retrospect at this offseason thinking that we completely overestimated our need for an above average left fielder because of how bad our offense was this year?
By the way, I will disagree with you that Weathers could be replaced by a minor-league arm. He’s been awesome this year.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Jul 21, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
yes - in the short term
it’s the sort of transaction a team should do if it believes it will compete the next year. Like the Mariners acquisition of Eric Bedard, they thought they could compete with the roster they had plus 1 player, but they didn’t evaluate their own roster well enough. That’s what happened with the Reds and Coco.
I think the next 2.5 months will be very telling whether the Reds should go for it next year with a big bat. They have over $60M tied up in 8 MLB Players (per Cots Contracts). A Matt Holliday acquisition could either boost this team to true contention or hamstring the team for 5+ years.
I don’t know that I have a solid plan… unfortunately, I’m not confident that Reds management has one either. Reds leadership’s plan appears to me to mimick how the government fixes problems by just tacking on additional programs that may solve one facet of a problem, but don’t meet the ultimate objective.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Jul 21, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
In re: Weathers
I’m issuing a prediction here
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 21, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
His overall numbers / performance isn't THAT bad.
But he has really bad outings sometimes. He’s a #5 starter, and is much better than we had at #5 last year. He’s also young, and Dick Pole is coaching him.. so…
I think Owings would be great in the bully
Maybe sort of an Octavio Dotel type. He cannot get lefties out and limiting his exposure to them gives him a lot more value. There are about a billion failed #5 startes who make fine late inning relievers: Dotel, Isringhausen, Nathan, Gagne, etgc. When Volquez comes back, I’d like to see Micah tried in some higher leverage situations
87mph fastball and 80mph changeup isn't going to cut it
That’s what he was throwing last night when I was watching. He needs more differentiation in his pitches.
Control and consistency also get him at times. I guess it’s up to the Reds coaches to determine whether he can gain that consistency by next year or if he’s hit his ceiling and he won’t “get it”. At times, he flashes some pretty good stuff, like the last time he faced the Cardinals.
He could throw harder if he were coming from the bullpen
and I didn’t say he would be a closer (although the ghost of Doug Jones claims one doesn’t have to throw hard, you still need to differentiate the change and the fastball). So, in my opinion, I would like to see Micah’s 90 mph sinker used against righties after David Weather is traded. How hard does Stormy throw? 65? 70? You don’t have to wear goggles and goose it up to 97 to be effective out of the bull pen
No, but
if you aren’t going to throw heat you have to be able to locate, and Micah can’t do that either. He’s the definition of a 5th starter….really effective sometimes, really ineffective others, rarely goes deep into games, but occasionally pitches great.
He is what he is…..only with a good bat. Let’s not be so quick to change him. He would’ve been the #3 starter on a lot of the Reds teams of this decade.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Guys,
I don’t like all this disrespect towards Manos de Oro. I just won’t tolerate it.
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
I hate west coast trips
I’m not even working tomorrow and I’m gonna have a hard time watching the whole game.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
Lineup for tonights game via Fay
Willy Taveras cf
Jerry Hairston rf
Joey Votto 1b
Jonny Gomes lf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Ryan Hanigan c
Adam Rosales 4
Paul Janish ss
Homer Bailey p
BP gets benched and we replace his gold glove with the powerful glove and bat of none other than Rosie!
At least Hanigan moved up…
holy crap
Janish is alive.
And he’s in the lineup with Rosales.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Don't get too excited
He’ll probably mysteriously get “injured” before the game starts
by wishfuldrifter on Jul 21, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to say,
we’ve seen some f’ed up lineups this year, but this has to be one of the worst.
I’m not bitching, mind you, just observing. Phillips probably needed to get benched, but man, does this lineup suck.
There are 4 players with an OPS below .700, and three of them are below .600
That is almost unbelievable.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
This lineup
does look like a split squad game in Sarasota. I’m sure Homer is happy to get the nod in front of this bunch.
by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Jul 21, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm fully expecting seven runs from this lineup
These things have a way of happening when they make the least sense.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 21, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd agree with you except
We scored 5 last night and Randy Wolf is mediocre so he’ll probably shut us out on 4 hits using 87 pitch
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 21, 2009 8:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I hate that I agree with you
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
Count me amongst the few people that don't think he needed his "lesson"
two hits after the first last night. Guess who had ’em?
"It's like being attacked by an angry moth."
-Vin Scully (on the SF Giants lineup of a year ago).
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
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