Red Reposter - 7/20/09
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 20, 2009 11:21 AM EDT
in News
231 comments
-
The Fayplacement reports that Ramon Hernandez will have surgery on his barking knee
You probably caught this in another thread from yesterday, but I feel it's important enough to repeat it. He'll like be out 4-6 weeks. Craig Tatum will come up to replace him. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I didnt expect him to be a world-beater when he came over from the Orioles, but I hoped he would be around a league-average player. He's been just a bit better than replacement level so far this season. Of course, that's still much better than the catching we got last year. And Ryan Hanigan has certainly outplayed him so far this year and is obviously the superior player, so this makes the team better immediately. But I had kinda hoped the team might be able to trade him by the deadline and that will not happen now. Hopefully Hanigan will do what he do and finally take the starting job for good. -
Jonny Gomes hit the game-clinching homer yesterday
but he wasnt originally in the lineup. Laynce Nix had a stiff back and was a late scratch. Gomes was surprised to start against a righty, but craves the opportunity to break that label of "platoon player". "Gomes admits it bothers him to be classified as a guy who can’t hit right-handers and said, "Yeah, it definitely does. I hit all the way up through the minors. I don’t think I’ve been labeled that, but it’s a role I’ve been thrown into and I’d love to hit my way out of it." -
More injury news
Alex Gonzalez is starting a rehab assignment with Louisville. He'll probably be back with the Reds when they return from the road trip. -
Chris Sabo's Goggles has a blurb about getting Jason Bay
and it took me by surprise. I suppose if he makes it to free agency it's possible, considering how all-hit no-field guys' salaries have dropped. But if the Reds were to make a move in free agency for a LF, who among you would rather have Bay over Matt Holliday? -
Doug Gray has some pictures and video of the Billings Mustangs
courtesy of Jason McLure. The first pic at the top of the page is awe-inspiring. Catching a game in the PioLeague is definitely now on my bucket list. -
If you didnt hear about it over the weekend, the Brewers traded for Felipe Lopez
FanGraphs calls it a small win-small win deal for both teams. I'm not sure why the Brewers needed another infielder, but they didnt give up much for him.
0 recs |
231 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Sure, fine, but
WHERE’S THE EYEWITNESS THREAD?!?!?!?!?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ash has JCH's camera ...
my guess is that it will be up by Friday(?)
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 20, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That just won't do.
I have to wait until Friday to tell tales of how I left the game and went to Covington, where I got drunk on $6 pitchers (more like plastic buckets, really) of PBR?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT? Why was I not invited?
Oh, right. I was drunk and being antisocial. Once I get my camera Thursday night I will begin work on the eyewitness report. Unfortunately I’m gonna need some help because things got pretty damned hazy for me later in the evening.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I just can't get drunk at a ballgame.
I did my best beforehand, going through three $3 beers while we were at Bar Louie, but that didn’t get me there…and I just can’t pay $7 for a beer. $6 for a pitcher I can do.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are a much wiser man than I am
I should leave my cards in the car when I go to a ballgame, the same as I do at the casino.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made up for not making a fool of myself at the game, though.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost always make a fool of myself at the ballgame, unless I have the kiddies with me
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"almost"
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You heard me, woman.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just seemed like you put in an extra word there.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same as in the other thread, I guess.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzalez
If all goes well, look for him to be back with the club Thursday in Chicago. Hal McCoy said the plan is to give him 4 games. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the club to send Janish down once Gonzalez gets back. With Ramon now out, Rosales or Drew Sutton’s stock on the big team rises because they can also play 1st.
Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle
by MixFMKyle on Jul 20, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that that would be all going well...
but I guess I could try to be slightly more optimistic.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Drew Sutton gets sent back down
LIFO
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting take
yeah, i suppose there is more utility with Rosie and Sutton than with PJ. personally, i don’t give two shits about any one of the three so whatever…
by GrooveLeg on Jul 20, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Rosales or Sutton gets sent down before Janish
They alrready have options burned for this year. Janish doesn’t.
Plus Janish can be a backup catcher and emergency relief pitcher…
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jul 20, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd like to see him get some more time at SS also
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Janish? At SS?
He doesn’t do that, does he?
by thevole on Jul 20, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No- he can't hit in the two spot
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
by crolfer on Jul 20, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday for me
nothing against Bay and his seemingly .514 career avg. against NL central teams, but Holliday is younger and hits more HR. his defense isn’t atrocious either—just “meh”. Holliday seems like he had a fluke year in Colorado—which is just my knee-jerk perception of him without having done any research so kudos if someone else wants to look into stats—and he isn’t doing as well this year, but the A’s can’t protect him with anyone in their lineup, even with Giambino. Holliday seems like he’s got more of an upside.
by GrooveLeg on Jul 20, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hanigan
hopefully he doesn’t fail to take advantage of this chance. As far as Hernandez goes he payed off earlier this season while Votto was out playing first better than expected and letting Ryan get some time behind the plate.
I’m not sure what I want to see happen in the Gonzalez situation. Do they really think 4 games will be enough to get him ready? And what is the Over/Under on him getting hurt again. I’ll say by the August 25 game with the Brewers.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thinking about Gonzo
maybe they realize he won’t hit regardless, so might as well bring him up sooner for his stellar defense!
(this makes me crazy on many levels—Cherry’s actually been playing decent defense at SS so far and is way outhitting Gonzo….and when Gonzo comes back I bet you anything Cherry is starting in the OF over Gomes or Dickerson or Nix. How hard is it to put the best damn team on the field?!?!?)
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, Hanigan calls better games for Arroyo than Hernandez. he also knows Cueto and Bailey well because of working with them in AAA. Hanigan plays better defense than Raymoan and gets on base more. i think it’s an instant upgrade.
by GrooveLeg on Jul 20, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
my concern is can Ryan maintain what he has done so far
if he can it puts the Reds in a weird spot. A really good, young, inexspensive guy and a pretty good, albeit overpaid, backup that can play another position. Following the money tells you Ramon plays due to salary but Hanigan could become a really valuable commodity
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the biggest downside to this
is that our bench becomes even weaker… yes we have a better starting lineup with Hanigan, but when it comes time to pinch hit, we have one less offensive threat riding the pine
by wishfuldrifter on Jul 20, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That dusty almost never used because he didn't want to burn his backup C
Agree the bench is weaker, but the gain is far greater than the loss to the bench
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 1:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Some thoughts
1. I haven’t heard any main media type call out Dusty for Ramon’s injury. People around here were saying in May that he was playing too much and wouldn’t last the season, and he’s been hurting for two months and still played behind the plate almost every day for the last month. I totally blame Dusty for this. And as for ruining his trade value, you don’t actually think they would’ve traded him do you? It’s more likely Votto gets traded than Hernandez….he is the team MVP after all.
2. Interesting how after almost two weeks of rehab the team was still reluctant to bring up EdE and only did when forced to, and he proceeded to CRUSH the ball, yet Gonzo only needs 4 games? This organization is so stupid sometimes.
3. With Nix struggling and being incapable of walking I’d be willing to give Johnny a shot at starting everyday. His OBP is one of the best on the team and that’s what we desperately need.
4. I’d much rather have Holliday than Bay too, but I’m guessing Holliday gets a couple more years and 10-15 million more total guaranteed than Bay.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure Dusty deserves any blame for this
remember Ramon played 30 games, starting 26, at first base this season out of the 77 he has appeared in.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
crap
did I just defend Dusty?
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's nothing wrong with that Caleb
deviation from CW is a good thing.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then again
The CW isn’t always wrong.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least the conventional thingking about it!
Of course, no one’s ALWAYS wrong, which is why even Dusty might be right once in awhile!
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, Dusty is always wrong
the CW says so. And since the CW isn’t always wrong….
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel all dizzy from this logic circle!
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You spin me right round baby right round
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 1:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I sooooooooooooooooo wanna post a wildly inappropriate link here.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
And from what they said, this has been a chronic problem, from before Ramon was a Red.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jul 20, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the more reason to not play the dude every freakin' day
If you knew he was an injury risk, only play him 3-4 times a week and let the (very) capable backup play the other 3 or so.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you that Dusty doesn't deserve blame for those games
but I can’t imagine that playing at first was as hard on his knees as his many games at catcher. And it probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference, but there’s no reason Dusty couldn’t have taken this into consideration and started him at catcher less.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with point one NYC
He played Ramon too frequently, but I imagine he still would have broken down. With regard to point 2, I think the reason is because Dusty really think Gonzo is a Gold Glove SS and he can get Hairston in the OF. As long as Hairston doesn’t take playing time away from Dickerson, I think the Hairston out machine is roughly equal to the Nixmes combined out machine. The day Dickerson is a DNP/Coaches decision, in favor of the Taveras/Nixmes/Hairston OF is the day I take out a contract on Dusty (haha, Dusty? just kidding…seriously, don’t test me)
I could care less between Bay and Holliday, because Holliday will “cost too much” and Bay will get re-signed by a Boston team suddenly realizing how old it’s offensive stars are.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes' OBP is .402
Granted, in only 113 PAs but I’d hardly call him an “out machine”
Compare that to Cherry’s .307 OBP
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, come on, like this is the only time Gomes has ever played?
I don’t have career numbers to work with? You know, like a five year career with an OPS of <800
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or a 5-year career with an OPS+ of 108
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And an OBP of .322
not great, but way better than Cherry
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at is an OPS plus?
He has power and he’s a decent guy off the bench. Personally, on a perfect team, there’s power on the bench from both sides, which is why Nix and Gomes would make such fine reserves.
By the way, how much of that OPS+, what ever it is, is derived from his first and only productive season, i.e. 2005?
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OPS+ is park adjusted, so it evens the playing field (so to speak)
An OPS+ of 100 is considered league average, so he’s been a slightly better than league average hitter over the course of his career. And if you are going to discount 2005, you also have to discount last year and his first two years where he got 30 some PAs and sucked hard.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't discount. Just wondered if his stats that year (which were very nice)
tell us more about that year than anything else.
In the end, I don’t care. I’d rather him play more often than Hairston. I figure it’s win/win. If he’s good, then the Reds found something. If, more likely, he is not, then I can bring it up later to annoy you and Slyde!
More likely than either of those: Dusty continues to not play him and plays Cherry
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billings
Is most certainly now on my bucket list of places to see a game.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had a friend in Yellowstone I wanted to visit,
and my plan was to fly into Billings, catch a game, then go to the park. Unfortunately, she quit her waitressing job and I ran out of money for my vacationing.
by Cy Schourek on Jul 20, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes
ride him while he’s hot. No one else is really doing much so what the heck
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bay vs Holliday
not sure which I’d take but having either one wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen to the Reds
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now I'm not sure who to root for in this series
If getting swept this week means we could trade Cordero, bust out the brooms for LA!!!
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
watch...
we’ll get swept and not trade CoCo.
by GrooveLeg on Jul 20, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CoCo has a full no-trade clause
Not that he’d turn down a trade to the Dodgers, but it’s not as easy as we’d like it to be.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know,
It’s more likely we’d trade Weathers or Rhodes (or no one). I’d actually like to see Rhodes stay, but I don’t think the return on Weathers would be anything.
I’m just trying to be optimistic that we could dump some salary in CoCo to make a run at a free agent OF or SS in the offseason.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have anyideas for the SS
As Slyde says finding a league average SS is not easy and every time I think about all I could do is think of JJ Hardy. That’s hardly exciting. If the Reds would have listened to me this winter, Furcal would be the starting SS and Juan Rivera would be the left fielder and everybody would be happier
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are assuming Furcal would want to play here
Maybe I overvalue prospects, but you definitely overestimate this organization’s ability to sign big FAs. Again, when was the last time we signed a truly impact FA? Griffey, and that was really a trade, and he only agreed to come because of the hometown thing.
No way Furcal turns down a comparable monetary offer from LA to come here.
And no, I don’t have any ideas for a SS, although I’d love to see Walt get creative in the offseason and trade for Yunel Escobar
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, no, that was tongue in cheek
Sorry, I think Furcal always intended to go back tot he Dodgers and was using everyone else to bid up the price. Still, I can dream.
Do you have ideas for a free agent SS, ‘cause I get the feeling you’ve looked into this more than I have
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was just planning on the minor leagues covering that. :)
According to Cot’s, these are the free agent SS this off-season (* means the player has an option):
Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera OAK
Bobby Crosby OAK
Adam Everett DET
Alex Gonzalez * CIN
Khalil Greene STL
John McDonald TOR
Marco Scutaro TOR
Miguel Tejada HOU
Jack Wilson * PIT
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Admittedly not much to work with,
but I’d take a flyer on a short contract to Scutaro til Valaika/Cozart is ready.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
get Greene
that way they could get group rates from the team shrink
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Wrong, but green'd
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop trying to get him riles up at me
Cabrera can field, but I read he hasn’t taken a walk in a month. But, that is one thin list
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of those guys would be a signifcant upgrade over Gonzo (except maybe Scutaro)
and I’d take Hairston over all of them…..not that I want him as my starting SS!
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is the word on Valaika anyway?
personally I’d like to see him and Janish both get a shot and see who comes through. Kind of like Davey Concepcion/Darryl Chaney and then again with Kurt Stillwell/Barry Larkin. Those both turned out well for the Reds. Not saying this would and it might be both guys are Stillwell and Chaney but my point is let the young guys have a shot and see what happens.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I replied to the wrong thing
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he missed a lot of time on the DL
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jul 20, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed that last line, but I would love that too
Who knows, maybe Doug Melvin can be convinced Harang is CC 2.0 and we can get Elvis from the Brewers?
Probably not, but Escobar might be possible
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with Rhodes age and usage
i wouldn’t be surprised if he broke down next year, mightaswell get somethign for him, and not worry that he will go all Mike Lincoln on our asses.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 20, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
He’s used to being a LOOGY and Dusty gets no credit for making him a very valubale reliever, despite what the book said. But, can he hold up that amount of innings over two years? I say deal him when you decide it’s over.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty doesn't get credit because it's not about credit
he’s thrown 45 innings this year. It’s not unusual for relief pitchers to be abnormally good in that small of a sample. I’m not down on him or Dusty, just saying that it only takes 2 or 3 bad outings to ruing a relief pitcher’s overall numbers, as Nick Masset is trying to show us.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think Dusty's envisioning him with a wider role
and his succeeding at that role (so far) is a credit to Dusty’s bully management? Let’s just leave at “we agree to disagree” and let me note, you seem to have taken a dark turn of the Dusty turnpike toward “interim manager pike.”
As far as relievers go, just ask Mike Lincoln what a small sample size does! I was re-reading BP’s notes in their handbook for this year and they were positively giddy at good the Reds middle relief of Bray and Burton could be. Made me sad. You just can’t count on relievers on a year to year basis. Makes what Rivera has done even more amazing
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Bay
Good guy, quiet guy. Just hits the ball. Probably cheaper than Holliday, too.
The way he hits against the NL Central, it should be a no-brainer.
by CBJMarty on Jul 20, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But his age and the way he fields against everybody
make it not such a no-brainer
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't Holliday really brutal in the outfield?
No range and when he does show it you wish he hadn’t? At least that is my recollection of him
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to fangraphs
Holliday is on pace for a UZR/150 of 7.4 in LF, Bay is on pace for -9.1
I know it’s not a perfect indicator, but it definitely points to Holliday being the superior defender.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take either
BTW, how can’t you cover LF in Boston? Even I could cover that OF (not really)
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay was awful in Pittsburgh too
he’s always been a bad fielder. Holliday has always been a + fielder.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 20, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like Bay to go all Greg Vaughn 11 years later
as long as he doesn’t get connected to BALCO with Bruce. Otherwise we would see J. Bay and Jay Bruce on the Bay Juice.
by Cy Schourek on Jul 20, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is a hockey fan posting here? This is a sports board!
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His age is not a factor
We only need someone for a couple of years before the guys in the minors come up.
Is he really that bad of a fielder?
by CBJMarty on Jul 20, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're overestimating the amount of time the "guys in the minors" need
Drew Stubbs could come up today and be the best CF on the team. Heisey and Frazier will be ready sometime next year, and throw Bruce into that mix and you have 4 outfielders that will need a place to play. It doesn’t make sense to break the bank to get another outfielder with those guys so close.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I scoff at your optimism regarding the Heisey and Frazier
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why's that?
Heisey’s continued to tear shit up since being promoted to AAA, and it’s pretty likely we see him in September of this year. What makes you think we won’t see him even next year? Even if he ends up in a 4th outfielder role (which is where he was projected prior to this year), there still needs to be outfield spots for Stubbs, Bruce, and either Frazier or Votto (if Alonso is ready and doesn’t get traded, which I’m not convinced he will be). EIther way you slice it, Stubbs and Bruce are probably here to stay, and both Frazier and Alonso won’t be traded.
There’s only three outfield spots. Bruce is taking one, and Stubbs is probably taking one, and if he isn’t, Dickerson, Heisey or Taveras plays there. This much we know is true. Say we pick up a big money LF like Bay or Holliday and sign them to a long-term deal worth big bucks. With those spots seemingly locked up, you’d be resigned to trade Alonso and Frazier at the very least, because there’s no place to put them.
Wouldn’t that money be better spent on a position of need, like a shortstop who doesn’t suck? Or after Harang gets traded, a big name pitcher?
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been a Reds fan for a long time and seen a lot of just wait until the next crop arrives.
I scoff at your optimism, because I’m a cynic, not necessarily that you are wrong.
In my world, I’d rather have the veteran than the kids who may pan out or may not. Just my spurned lover-esque relationship with the team.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a lot different now than it has been the last 10 years or so.
Throughout the last few years, we’ve had really 4 big-time position prospects come through the system that I can remember a big deal being made of them; Dunn, Kearns, Bruce, and Votto. Add Homer to that list, and you have 5 prospects in the last 10 years that have come up and got the city talking about them. You have Alonso coming up sometime late next year at the earliest, but he’s going to get that kind of fanfare. Then you have the list of prospects who came up without that, like Edwin and Brandon Larson. Frazier and Stubbs are closer to the first list than they are to Larson. For the first time this decade, you have 3 legit prospects in the system who are close to the majors (within a year). When was the last time that’s happened?
It’s understandable to be pessimistic given this team’s track record with young players, but this system is as strong as it’s been in years. More like the Rays than the Astros, and that’s a good thing.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, no one is like the Rays
And this organization just produced Cueto, Bruce, and Votto. that’s some pretty heavy lifting.
As I have mentioned to NYC, no one else thinks these players are gonna change the world. Fans always expect great things from prospects, whereas Tim expects good things from Jason Bay.
Does anyone else remember when Wily Mo was the next hope….man, I had hope for him. Good on Wayne for getting a serviceable pitcher from that mess.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and BK, I understand the value of paying 500,000 for the rookie
and watching him replicate a veteran’s numbers. I get that. I just want a good bat in here and I don’t see those kids you mentioned being that guy.
Speaking of which, is anyone officially allowed to doubt Jay yet. I don’t officially yet, but after seeing him match his 20% prediction in two consecutive years, I’m getting nervous. Maybe he’s Willie Greene with the ability to play defense?
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really didn't have much hope for Willy Mo
he seemed to be destroyed by his greedy contract, so he did not develop properly.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 20, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he would make a great sotball player
I need to look him up. That dude could hit a batting practice fastball like most people hit a golf ball
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what you're paying for when you get a guy like Jason Bay
All I’m saying is that with the shape this organization is taking (being heavy on outfield prospects with not much else), I’d rather see the money spent on an area where the organization is lacking. For example, other than BP, there are really no good middle infielders in the entire organization. Shouldn’t this be addressed before adding another outfielder to the logjam out there?
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no middle infielders?
Chris Valaika?
Zach Cozart?
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Valaika, but he's not projecting as a SS right now.
Maybe 2B, but that would mean BP has to move over, which isn’t happening anytime soon.
Cozart’s still a couple of years away, and while he’s having a great year this year, he needs to do something once he gets to Louisville to shed that “all-field, no-hit” tag.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2B = Middle infield
I was responding to
For example, other than BP, there are really no good middle infielders in the entire organization.
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and I get that
Valaika isn’t going to come up and take BP’s spot, and what he’s shown in AAA isn’t all that promising enough to make me want to move BP to SS. That being said, we need to go out and get a SS, which was my point.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Valaika - shortterm shortstop
Valaika may not be a long-term solution at SS, but once he gets his stroke back after missing time with injury this year, he could handle SS defensively until Cozart is ready or another solution presents itself.
IMO, I move Phillips before the end of his contract.
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I move him prior to the 2009 season
oops, too late. According to Hal, he wants to be moved and he has the arm.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So do I
but if management won’t do it, it’s a moot point. And there has been exactly zero indication that that’s going to happen.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this steady drumbeat is getting frustrating
“no one else thinks these players are gonna change the world”
Change the world in the Albert Pujols sense? No, but, remember, very few minor league scouts were overwhelmed by Pujols either for a large chunk of his minor league time.
The good news is that they don’t have to be change the world players, they just have to be “serviceable” major leaguers to be a big help. That’s what the “B” ratings and such are trying to tell you.
And our current crop of prospects offer two more advantages: 1) they’re under the Reds control for low money and 2) there are quite a few of them. It’s not as if the Reds are depending on just Todd Frazier to pan out. They have a number potentially good players, which increases the odds of one of them being good.
So it’s complete hyperbole to say that “no one else likes” our current prospects. They like them fine; it’s just that we don’t have any can’t miss guys at the moment, but not many teams do and some of those can’t miss guys actually do miss.
Nobody faults you for feeling burned by the Brandon Larson’s of the past and developing some barstool cynicism because of it, but to extrapolate from that a theory of what the Reds should do in 2009 based primarily on those feelings is as flawed as guaranteeing that Chris Heisey will be as productive as Jason Bay. (Which by the way no one has said)
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Jul 20, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get it
You are just the latest Pollyanna to sing me this song. I know about roster management and I understand, as I stated the value of major league average cheap players.
I disagree with the idea that this team needs to wait until some time in 2010 or 2011 for Todd Frazier and Heisey and Stubbs, etc to ALL pan out. Prospects are not sure thing and counting on a Double A kid, a kid just promoted to Triple A, and a defensive CF who might hit like Willy T with a higher walk rate is not a substitute for the acquisition of a better bat. And, let’s be frank, that’s what some people are counting on. Every guy who is having a good year in his minor leagues and under the age of 24 will proceed with linear projection until they are MLB regulars.
If only…
Fortunately for us, neither of us runs this franchise and the guy who does packages prospects to acquire Mark McGwire and Scott Rolen.
I hope he can do it again.
Now, before I get slapped again by Slyde, that’s my final word on doubt and the Calivinist view of Reds baseball.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not that you disagree
it’s that you’re continually arguing in bad faith.
I’m not a Pollyanna and I’m not purporting to be a better GM than Walt Jocketty. I’ve not said (and I don’t recall anyone else saying) that ALL our current prospects will pan out. I’ve not said, furthermore, that ALL our prospects need to pan out for the Reds to be contenders. I’ve not said that I’m against trading minor league talent for proven MLB talent. I’ve not said that I’m against going out and selling two or three top prospects for Matt Holiday (though I’ll say it now)
What we’re trying to do here is put together a total view of the Reds’ situation so that they have the best chance of getting the most out of their current resources. We may disagree on that method and that’s all well and good.
What I (and I suspect others) find frustrating is that you continue in imputing the most extreme positions to those with whom you disagree. This strawman technique quickly becomes unhelpful and wearying. As does the odd persecution complex (getting “slapped” by Slyde and such). This is a fantastic community of interesting people and savvy Reds fans; you have a lively, dynamic voice that can enrich that community. But I’m not sure why you believe you’re some kind of anti-establishment hero, boldly speaking truth to power because you don’t like our current prospects and want to take the risk of acquiring the proverbial Big Outfield Bat.
That’s simply a form of self-flattery
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Jul 20, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Dear lord
I don’t intend to do those things (besides Slyde did chastise me and I wasn’t offended and I certainly don’t have a complex about it).
And, outside of respecting the abilities of EdE and not thinking Dusty is a bad manager (but, not a good one either), I don’t think of myself talking truth to power.
For one thing, none of us has power.
For another, it is nice to find a group of people who know what OPS means and want to talk baseball.
Lastly, the strawman thing works both ways. I never said I don’t like the prospects. I generally faulted the concept that they will be productive major leaguers and we should wait for them. We should not.
It’s the “wearying” thing I fear, simply because the folks on this board, especially NYC, Slyde, and BK, are people I enjoy talking to. But, maybe I’m talking too much. I do love the sound of my own voice and I do enjoy arguing. It’s weird that I like arguing on the internet, but hate doing it in person. It’s also weird that my favorite poster here is NYC, because I feel like we can go round and round and he never gets personally upset.
At any rate, I have a big test to study for, let’s see if I can focus for more than ten minutes.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said
I enjoy arguing with you too (and also hate it in person) mostly because I do overvalue prospects a bit. I’m also ageist and would love to see an entire 25 man roster made up of guys under 28 (sometimes I wish I was a rays fan)
BTW I think in the post steroid era you are going to see a major trend away from counting on vets and towards younger players.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 3:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't thought of that
I think the most common under-reported users of steroids were pitchers, since it helped muscles respond faster. So, less old pitchers and guys who naturally aging = more youngsters. It’s Marvin Miller’s worst nightmare.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay fan
I’d be in favor of Bay, but I’m doubting that the Reds would outbid the other teams for his services.
I’m also in the camp of realizing that there are prospects on the horizon, but if you want to count on them to take you to the next level, you need to add at least 1 year to the time they arrive. So if all these prospects make the team on opening day 2010, expect 2011 to be “the year” at the earliest. Bay would give you the better chance to make 2010 “the year”.
The Reds are more than 1 player away from 2010 beng the year? Move those LF prospects for other areas of need.
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think are one stud and a competent CF from contending
Replacing the left field hole with a >850 OPS guy or the SS with a >800 with a glove with a healthy Jay and CDickerson and Stubbs patrolling CF? Well, I’m sold.
The key is flipping prospects for the person to step in.
Has anyone wondered lately how EdE would look in LF come 2010?
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Kemp in CF
It would be an offseason move, but what + Phillips = Kemp.
Or am I overvaluing Kemp?
Phillips = Kemp + ?
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way the Dodgers move Kemp
You might as well pine for Evan Longoria or Matt Wieters.
by Red Menace on Jul 20, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Batting order
Why does he bat 6th, 7th and 8th so much? (mostly 7th)
He seems a bit undervalued on his own team? Casey Blake, Andre Ethier and James Loney has been the team’s rotation in the cleanup spot.
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because he's slightly in Torre's doghouse
Torre has a weird doghouse
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem with that. Kemp gets little love for Torre
and maybe they’d be interested. It hink we should work on a typical fan trade, you know, like we get Kemp for Yonder and two Dayton cast-offs. Something ridiculous like that
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taveras, Ty Howington, and a Josh Hall bobblehead for Matt Kemp
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and how annoying are Dodgers beat writers
that not only do they plan on winning the series, but they’re pretty sure they can sweep? Ah, I can only fondly remember the days in which I was that arrogant about the Reds
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Surely it's been a while...
right?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're correct...
and don’t call me Shirley.
by GrooveLeg on Jul 20, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That will always get a rec from me, same as ole Gomes
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are still bitter about the little sweep Cincinnati had over LA in 1995
REMEMBER 1995!
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 20, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can I forget.
It’s not even a memory darkened by the appearance of Steve Parris on the mound in an elimination game……
although, to be fair, no one would have beaten Leiter that day. He was on.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just the mid-90's.....
so, only a decade and a half.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's what she said?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great usage
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds @ LA W/L
2000 – 2/1
2001 – 3/0
2002 – 2/1
2003 – 0/3
2004 – 3/0
2005 – 2/2
2006 – 0/3
2007 – 0/3
2008 – 0/3
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Jul 20, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We're gonna go all 2005 on their asses!
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good news is that I can turn the Gameday Audio over to Vin
and not want to kill whomever is announcing. For once, my bllod pressure will be affected by what’s going on on the field, instead of some dead ball era observation by George, sMarty’s constant bile, or one more Brantley essay on “heart.”
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Hadn’t thought about the Scullinator… Now I’m excited!
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I want to talk about trades.
Meaning, specific targets. I’m disappointed we haven’t heard more rumors. I like rumors, they’re fun. Remember when we traded Bailey for J. Dye? That was pretty cool. I just want to see a damn trade so we have something fresh to talk about. /growl
by jsl413 on Jul 20, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you like trades? how does this sound?
we just traded jsl413 to Bleed Cubbie Blue for a PosterTBNL. pack youre bags son, youre a Cubs fan now!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 20, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The good news is he's the smartest person in the room over there
the bad news is….well, the Cubs.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i always figured i'd be the first one to be traded posteber/tbnl
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jul 20, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For sheer poetic justice
I want to trade timb for prospects.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 20, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
LOL
I’d red the hell out of this but I’m on my phone
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
There's no guarantee they'll be as annoying as I am
but I rec’d it because I liked it
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I'll take dacub and RJVasilak for him
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're in the wrong season, then
Last year after 91 games we were 11.5 back (but only one game worse in our record compared to this year) I think the combination of our appearing to be close, mgmt’s desire to end the losing season streak, and our lack of really valuable trade chips means walt will wait a loooooong time to start selling. Remember, dunn was traded after July 31 last year.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 2:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and the way Walt was a-talking on the radio thingy
he said the most hectic time is the hours before. I’m betting nothing happens until the 30th
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just got the shit beat out of me.
thanks, RR.
by jsl413 on Jul 20, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a very lively reposter
I don’t know if any changes will be made, but if they trade Bronson Arroyo, I will be bummed out for at least an hour and have to watch all of the JTM ads. I don’t have much else to add for the moment. Except that Yunel Escobar is on my SS wish list. Isn’t there something about him not getting along with Bobby Cox? Maybe they would be willing to deal
by Red_Poodle on Jul 20, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i like Escobar too
but i really dont think the Braves want to move him. he’s one of the top young SS in the game. he may have some personality issues, but they would have to be seriously serious issues for any team to want to move that kind of talent. there have been murmurs they might want to move him, but all theyve said publicly is that they would have to be crazy to get rid of him.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 20, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Yunel's a hardass about spousal abuse and Bobby couldn't stand the judgment in the kid's eyes?
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not pulling any punches there! lol
CS, I think you’re right. It was just dreaming. I watched him against the Mets for a few minutes last night and it was impressive. His BA with RISP is something like .400. Impressive. He would probably have to be Stalin or something to force them to trade him.
by Red_Poodle on Jul 20, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the problem with him is
he’s a mouth-breather. Nearly every picture I’ve ever seen of him, or times he’s been on TV, he’s got his frickin’ gob slightly ajar, like a piranha. Do we have confirmation that it can actually close?
I used to have a roommate who was a mouth-breather. That incessant “huuuuuuuh heeeeeeeh, huuuuuuuh heeeeeeeeeh,” it’s enough to drive a man insane! It’s no surprise they’d want to get him out of there.
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
by Gapper on Jul 20, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The guy from Talking Chop told me that Cox and Escobar don't get along, difference in attitudes blah blah blah
That’s why the Braves “might” be looking to shop him around. If they do so, they’re crazy.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
I think tonight’s game will be very interesting. Mannroids is 2-14 in his last at bats and the Schmidt hasn’t pitched in the Bigs since June 17, 2007. Owings is on the mound and excluding the game at the Phillies, has pitched (and hit) decently. If the Reds can take an early lead they might be able to take a win.
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know this is a trifling matter
but why did we keep Fisher up and send Roenicke down? Seemed like Roenicke had pitched decent and had about a half point ERA better than Fisher – though over a shorter period. He’s supposta be the future closer or set-up man for this team after all.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 20, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there some showcasing going on?
Or possibly prep work for a potential trade. MLBTR mentioned the Dodgers are looking at some Reds relievers. Maybe Weathers and/or Rhodes goes and Roenicke/Manuel come up for good.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 20, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps Fisher is seen more as a long reliever? He used to be a starter. As a reliever, he’s made several appearance (majors and minors) of more than 1 inning. Roenicke has exclusively been a reliever and averages an inning per game throughout his career.
by rojosoto on Jul 20, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, that makes sense
I guess Masset’s role has shifted and DRH is a LOOGY and sortofa-longman. They might need another guy who can go a couple innings as the season wears on. I really want to see Roenicke up for good soon though.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 20, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so ive said this before
but i dont understand the devotion to ryan hanigan. he’s only had 248 career major league at-bats and has significantly outplayed his minor league number in that short sample size. His .808 OPS this season is 50 points higher than that of his 1,800-at-bat minor league career during most of which he’s played older than his level. He seems to call a pretty good game, but as far as I know this hasn’t been quantified and I’m not ready to concede that he’s a better defensive catcher than ramon. (his caught-stealing percentage is only 8 points higher for their careers (38-30), and hanigan’s minor league percentage is only 27 percent.) Maybe hanigan is the rare player who gets better in the majors. or maybe he’s the very common 28-year-old rookie who outplays his mean for a few months before regressing to it. i would have thought reds fans would have learned their lesson after falling head over heels for jeff keppinger.
then again, i’m not around very often, so i really don’t know why the man-crush. maybe someone can fill me in.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on Jul 20, 2009 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nice work.
My favorite part of the Hannigan mystique comes when Brantley calls him a kid or says he brings youthful enthusiasm to the team. “Youthful” dammit, he’s older than most of the rest of the team.
At any rate, let’s hope, for some reason, he keeps bucking the trend, mainly because if filling LF and SS is too much for this organization to do in the near term, how can they fill Catcher too?
I long for relevance for the team. Can’t they give me one meaningful game in mid-September? Walt, do you hear my plaintive call?
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do YOU hate America?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hanigan is probably playing with house money
but my reason for excitement is that Hanigan has proven he can get on base in both the minors and majors. For a team that doesn’t get on base very effectively, it would be nice to have a .380+ OBP in the lineup regularly. His arm and ability to call a game also have the potential for improvement with MLB experience, whereas Ramon hasn’t been very efficient at gunning down runners.
The loss of Ramon does underscore again how much this team desperately needs some power this year – if it hope to put up a winning record.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 20, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why the love for Hanigan? his numbers are really good
his minor league OBP is .397. sure, he’s outplaying that so far this season, but even if he regresses to that we have one of the top catchers in the NL. what really excites me about him though is his incredible contact rates. in the 1000+ ABs he’s had in the minors, he has 9 more walks than Ks (155/146). that kind of plate discipline and contact skill tend to translate very well to the majors. i think the Reds lack of faith in him has more to do with his lack of power than anything else. that’s why he’s a 28 year old rookie. as long as he’s not hurt or miscast as a shortstop, i dont think he’s anything like Jeff Keppinger.
do i believe he’s really a .400 OBP player in the majors? no. but i believe he’s a .370 OBP player in the majors. add that to his defense and you have one valuable cost-controlled catcher.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 20, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
walk and K rate are two things that tend to stay steady all the way up through the system for most players, and Hanigan’s have both been really good his entire career.
Plus, the low caught stealing rate in the minors has to be partially attributed to the pitchers. It’s much, much easier to steal on lower level minors pitchers.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hanigan's minor league OBP is .383.
not .397. i only bring it up because ramon hernandez’s minor league OBP was .381, and he started as a 19-year-old. hanigan started when he was 22 and has been old for his level at every stop. a .370 OBP in the majors over his career might not be realistic. hernandez had almost the same number of walks (247) as strikeouts (251) in the minors, then went from a minor league on-base of .381 to a major league OBP of .326. i think that’s a more realistic projection for hanigan.
also, hanigan has no power whatsoever. hernandez’s OBP tanked somewhat in the majors, but he still has shown a power stroke. He’s hit for 14 or more home runs six times and has topped 20 twice. He has 142 career homers — 139 more than hanigan. hernandez hit 23 home runs for baltimore in 2006, whereas hanigan has 21 home runs in his seven-season, 2,200-at-bat pro career.
hanigan’s minor league OPS (.754) is 80 points less than what hernandez put up as a young minor league player and just 11 points higher than what hernandez has done in the majors. plus, we have a substantial data set to work with for hernandez and have a much better idea of what to expect. with hanigan, everyone’s pretty much just extrapolating on his inflated minor league numbers. so unless you’re expecting hanigan to do in the majors what he did as an old minor league player, or you’re only concerned with numbers from this season, i think stating that hanigan is “obviously the superior player” is flat wrong.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on Jul 20, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are comparing career potential to this season's value
Hanigan is a better player in 2009, though I’m not so sure he’ll be able to handle being an everyday catcher, he deserved a lot more playing time so far this year.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never said he hasn't had a good year
i just dont get the optimism. especially from the world’s most jaded, pessimistic fans
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on Jul 20, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who likes the LA Clippers?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 20, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
minor league splits is where i got my numbers, and i guess they only go back to ‘05. so that’s why i quoted some wrong numbers. youre right, he compares pretty well to Hernandez. i still think he can be a decent major league catcher for a few years, but youve certainly blunted my optimism. thanks asshole :)
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 20, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, mine too
jerk
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most importantly,
Hanigan is Votto’s best friend on the team. Do you think Votto would buddy up with a so-so player? Maybe a happy Hanigan will translate to a happy Votto.
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
by Gapper on Jul 20, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel bad saying this
but if the Reds could dump CoCo without absorbing too much of his salary, they should jump at the chance. The team needs to start winning consistently before paying a closer 13 million a season. Maybe the Reds can get a few wins against LA this week so they can show off CoCo and then deal him to the Dodgers.
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's been said over and over, but I guess not everyone knows
Coco has a full no-trade clause this year. It’s not impossible to trade him, but it’s extremely unlikely. We’ll have to wait to the offseason to really get fired up about trading him. Though if he pitches next year the way he has this year, and we really are making a push for the playoffs next year, then I’ll be really excited to have him closing games.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 20, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? unlikely to trade?
you don’t think he would accept a deal to the dodgers, angels, phillies, yankees, or red sox?
Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,
by 'tHan on Jul 20, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way, no how, not gonna happen
Way, way, way too much money devoted to him right now, and there are actually very few “on the verge” teams that have closer issues. This Coco-to-the-Dodgers crap is misguided (at best), as they’ve got Broxton already. Weathers or Rhodes maybe, but not CoCo.
Also, he’s got a no-trade clause…which is irrelevant for me to say, since it appears Mr. ’nukkah has already posted that before my slow, stubby fingers could hammer that out.
FREE JONNY GOMES!
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 20, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this is all true
but it’s not nearly as much fun to speculate about dropping Weathers.
We wouldn’t get anything back for him and wouldn’t save any money, so it’d be like a non-trade.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the no-trade clause
allows Coco to choose where he goes right? So if he wanted to go to the Dodgers he’s allowed. Maybe I’m confusing that with something else.
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, you're right
I’m just saying that the Dodgers already have a younger, cheaper, signed, cheaper, better, cheaper closer with better stuff.
I’d love to find a suitor for Coco. It’ll just never happen, I don’t think.
Of course, I also always wanted to see Erin Andrews naked, and I thought THAT would never happen either….
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 20, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know who is responsible for it,
but that person who apparently snuck around inside the walls and air ducts of her hotel room is a great American.
He sits alone...Reds are not home.
by Gapper on Jul 20, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more along the lines of "creepy scumbag".
by Geki on Jul 20, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
pretty much the same thing
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
by crolfer on Jul 20, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I think it's likely we move CoCo at all, especially to the Dodgers
But Broxton has given up 9 runs and has a WHIP of almost 2 over his last 10 games. Of course, the Dodgers haven’t lost any of those games and Broxton has in fact pitched in only one game all year that the Dodgers lost (and he pitched two scoreless innings in that game). More important, though, is the apparent reason for his struggles of late, which is a toe injury that won’t be going away any time soon according to Joe Torre: “It’s something that he’s going to have to deal with, and we’re going to have to deal with, [for what] looks like for the rest of the year. He’ll get periodic treatment, and from what I’m told from the medical staff, the only thing that’s going to help this is rest.”
Although the Dodgers have Ramon Troncoso, Guillermo Mota, and Ronald Belisario putting up surprisingly outstanding seasons, it’s possible they could be in the market for another closer-type if they’re not sure Broxton can be effective for the rest of the year.
I also don’t think CoCo’s NTC is really that much of an issue. I think he’d waive it to go to a team better than the Reds. It’s the exorbitant money he’s making that will prevent him from being moved.
by Geki on Jul 20, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you know you can't buy a Jonny Gomes shirt at GABP?
Ain’t that some shit?
by Brendanukkah on Jul 20, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw the starting lineup..
can’t believe Gomes isn’t starting after last night…only Dusty.
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 20, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I just saw that too.
I keep looking to see if I missed Gomes…
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reference
Taveras 8
Hairston Jr. 6
Votto 3
Phillips 4
Nix 7
Encarnacion 5
Dickerson 9
Hanigan 2
Owings 1
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is there any talk
of letting Dusty go?
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His salary, too
Means he’s almost as untouchable as Coco, unfortunately.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 20, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to do this, but dammit, he makes bad line ups
but he’s not THAT bad of a manager. A computer can set a line-up; Dusty does the other stuff that managers do and he does it well
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admit, I haven't heard one peep about players not liking to play for him
Which is baffling, because for a player’s manager, to this outsider it doesn’t look like he sticks up for his players very often (slow to come out of the dugout, unnecessarily singles players out for criticism in the media). But I’m buying into the theory that if you put a Dusty on a team with very good players, he will do well managing them. Barry Bonds took him to the World Series and Sammy Sosa won him an NL Central title. So either we need more superstars or more steroids, but it does seem like a young team with developing players is not ideal for a guy who demonstrates shockingly bad baseball knowledge.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 20, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his veterans love him because he always sticks with him
there aren’t two managers in the majors who would still play Willy and AGon. There aren’t many who would have earned their way back in the field like Dickerson. And, I continue to maintain that Dusty has done good work on the pitching staff. He controls innings and envisions new roles for people (not only Rhodes, but Masset never got this opportunity with the White Sox).
I won’t miss him, but this universal approbation of him is overblown. It’s not his fault this team doesn’t have the offense (and lord knows, he hasn’t done enough to maximize the talent), but, seriously whether it’s a rookie and a career back-up catcher batting 7-8 or 1-2, that’s not the difference between winning and losing the 5 games they trail*
- Please do not accuse me of supporting Dusty’s weird line-ups, because I do not.
by timb116 on Jul 20, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we’ve got him until his contract’s up sadly
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 20, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3.5mil for each of his 3 years
so it should be up after next season
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 20, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crimony
I wonder how long Hanigan has to have a .400 OBP until he no longer bats 8th? Infinity?
Play Gomes the hell all the time in LF and Dickerson in RF.
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 20, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mean Dickerson in CF.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Jul 20, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a stupid freaking lineup
I’m tired of talking about Dusty’s dumbass lineups, but I can’t help it.
2 of the 3 lowest OBPs on the team batting 1-2, 2 of the 3 highest batting 7-8
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
by nycredsfan on Jul 20, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd think I'd be inured by this point
But Dickerson-Hanigan at 7-8 makes mah head asplode!
by Brendanukkah on Jul 20, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what it'd be like
if Dusty mixed it up and put Owings in a different spot of the lineup…just an idea.
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see him bat 8th. It’s what LaRussa does with the Cards everytime I see em play.
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 20, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why in the world would he do that?
He’s only the 3rd best power-hitter we’ve got……
God this gets uglier and uglier. I don’t even want to do a lineup comparison with the Dodgers. That would just be painful
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 20, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also..
reassigned Robert Manuel to bring Burton back up. I just don’t get the decisions this organization makes.
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 20, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How was
Burton doing down in AAA? I thought pretty decently (taking nothing away from Manuel)
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not sure but
Manuel in his limited time hasn’t given up a run yet
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Jul 20, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 run in 9 innings of work, 8 Ks and 3 walks
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
36 hours in Cincinnati
The NY Times travel section has a “36 hours” series, which basically lays out a weekend vacation in various places, with suggestions of what to do, where to eat, etc. They did Cincinnati yesterday.
WITH the quiet momentum of a work in progress, Cincinnati is finding an artsy swagger, infused with a casual combination of Midwest and Southern charm. The city center, for decades rich with cultural and performing arts venues, now offers a renovated Fountain Square area and a gleaming new baseball stadium with views of the Ohio River. Efforts to transcend the damage from several days of race riots in 2001, which nearly decimated the city’s Over-the-Rhine district, are slowly progressing. Transformations are taking place in surrounding areas — as well as across the river in the neighboring Kentucky cities of Newport and Covington — with their cool music venues, funky shopping outlets and smart culinary options.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jul 20, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is no Southern charm here, I can assure you of that.
"I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
by jch24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're confusing "Southern" with "white trash"
Common mistake.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Jul 20, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because the Reds are making the trading deadline boring,
The powers that be are finally making a new Monkey Island, Tales of Monkey Island. I am incredibly excited and saddened that I got back into video games the moment I graduated college
by Cy Schourek on Jul 20, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pfff. Old news.
I’m currently trying to figure out how to break the Voodoo Lady’s unbreakable bottle by stealing Crimpdigit’s piece of Flotsam Island’s crystal reef. Did you know they’re rereleasing SOMI?
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on Jul 20, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait...
so JHairston is playing 3B and EdE is playing short? (unless I mistake the numbers)
by chazzilla on Jul 20, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you mistake the numbers
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Jul 20, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mistook the numbers
5 is third base, 6 is short. it has something to do with the shortstop playing in short outfield like 100 years ago
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on Jul 20, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or short infield maybe
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on Jul 20, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
