Which bat should the Reds get?
by nycredsfan on Jun 29, 2009 11:03 AM EDT
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John Paul Morosi at Fox Sports has a column up about how the Reds wanted DeRosa BADLY and how Walt's really looking hard for a RH bat. He lists a bunch of possible targets. Here are the players he lists with their current wOBA.
1. Ty Wigginton-.301
2. Josh Willingham-.405
3. Matt Holliday-..357
4. Gary Matthews Jr.(!!!)-.267
5. Julio Lugo-.336
So the question is, what would be your preference of the above players, in order? No discussions in a vacuum. You have to consider the package it would take to get each and money considerations.
My thoughts after the jump
My order of preference for the above players would be: 1. Josh Willingham 2. Julio Lugo 3. Matt Holliday 4. Ty Wiggington 5. Gary Matthews Jr.
Reasoning--In my mind we need a SS the most, a LF second, but there aren't any good SS available right now. Willingham is a good player, not too old, and would come relatively cheap. He hits for power, can take a walk (something this team desperately needs), and plays passable defense in LF.
Julio Lugo is expensive and older, but Boston would definitely pick up most or all of his salary, considering the other option is probably just releasing him. His defense isn't great, but getting a league average hitter for SS would help the offense a great deal, methinks.
I would love to get Holliday, but I'm thinking the cost for 3 months of him would just be too steep. Ty Wiggington is the definition of redundancy with EdE coming back, and if the Reds trade for Gary Matthews Jr. I'm turning in my fancard.
Thoughts? And feel free to add a sixth player into the mix, just make it realistic. (No trading for David Wright)
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If only Bowden still was the GM in Washington
We might be able to convince him to take Taveras for Willingham. “He’s an outfielder!”
thats a winning attitude
settle for a nats reject, let stl get holliday (if the rumors are true)
when a team has made 1 playoff appearance in 20 yrs sometime you have to take risks
Ahem
Two playoff appearances in twenty years, thankyouverymuch.
by Brendanukkah on Jun 29, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I get the disdain for Willingham
His career .367 wOBA is pretty good considering he’s played most of is career in a pitcher’s park. I don’t give a crap if he’s a “Nats reject,” if they are willing to trade him, it says a lot more about how they are a poorly run organization than about the team that is trying to acquire him.
The other advantage with Willingham over Holliday is that Willingham is still under contract (through arbitration) for 2 more years. I like Holliday and I’d love to have him on the Reds, but if I can get Willingham for the same package, or possibly less, I’d take Willingham right now.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
thanks nycredsfan
i just spent 45 minutes writing up a Reposter with this as the centerpiece. oh well. this will serve just fine as a forum for discussion.
Willingham is the exact same player that Jonny Gomes is. their respective ZiPS projected wOBAs over the the remainder of the season are .368 and .372. so Willingham is even more redundant than Wigginton.
Lugo is crap. almost as crappy as Lil Sarge.
Holliday is the only one who would likely be a significant upgrade over what we have in-house. im not sure i want to give up what they would want for him though. thankfully we still have a month to go before the deadline and can afford to be patient. EdE should be back within a week and if Walt has any sense Taveras will be on his way to Nowheresville by then.
im really glad that the Cards wound up winning the DeRosa Derby. he’s not as good a player as some think he is and i think they overspent for him. and it means one less trade chip they have now to compete with the Reds already superior stock of trade chips. Walt should be patient with this and i think he knows it.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 29, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions
sorry dude, summer vacation, i have lots of time on my hands
I totally agree on DeRosa. He would’ve played third for the next couple weeks til EdE got back, then he’d replace what he already have in LF and we’d be out a couple of prospects.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I am so damn happy that DeRosa got traded
He was the kneejerk prescription for every team’s ills. A total microcosm of baseball’s creative vacuum. “They should get DeRosa.” “DeRosa could really help this team.” DeRosa, DeRosa, DeRosa.
And I ain’t scared of him.
"I lay my head on the railroad tracks, and wait for the double E"- Warren Zevon
by Colin Auscapee on Jun 29, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
DeRosa has an interesting career arc
He came up with the Braves as an older prospect and ended up having a couple of forgettable years at 28 and 29. He rebounded in Texas and then signed that contract with the Cubs that most people thought was a joke. But he’s steadily improved at the plate and continues to be a versatile player. He’s definitely aged well.
He might be overrated now after playing the scrappy white guy role to perfection in Chicago. But I still gotta root for him because there aren’t many MLB guys who came from my school.
Bergen Catholic or Wharton?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jun 29, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh, okay. Did you go to the Wharton School?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jun 29, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
And the only difference I'd say with Gomes/Willingham is that
Willingham probably gives you slightly better defense, although you are right, they are very similar players.
I just really wish we could get a good SS. With EdE back, and a logical lineup in place, this offense wouldn’t be bad at all. To wit:
1. Dickerson CF
2. Hanigan C
3. Votto 1B
4. BP-2B
5. Bruce-RF
6. EdE-3B
7. Nix/Gomes-LF
8. League Average SS
That would probably be an above average offense for the rest of the year.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Willingham can hit right-handers
I doubt that Willingham is an upgrade over Nix/Gomes, but if I had to choose between the three players, I would choose Willingham easily.
And League Average SS are a lot harder to find than I think people realize.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Would you choose him even if it means giving up a couple of prospects?
I know league average SS are hard to find, which is why we don’t have one and can’t get one. I just think that if we could get our hands on one, that would be the best move to help the club.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I doubt I would trade for him this season, because those two are under contract
but if I had the choice of acquiring him for this season or sticking with either Nix or Gomes for next season, I’d probably go after Willingham. Obviously it depends on the prospects.
And if it’s a choice between 3 months of Holliday or 2.5 years of Willingham, I’d pick Willingham. I just don’t see any guarantee that Holliday is going to be the solution for this year and to me that’s not worth what it will take to get him.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
length under contract
It’s unfortunate that most of the rumors are for left fielders, or that the left fielders mentioned are at best equal to the Nix/Gomes combination the team currently employs. The problem with plugging in a solution like Willingham into the LF spot, is what do you do with Heisey and/or Frazier?
Screw Gary Matthews Jr. If the Reds are talking to the Angels, what do they want for Brandon Wood?
if the reds are going cheap and dont care about winning
just looking to fill a spot, get a matt murton, shelley duncan type in minors
I think they already did this by getting a Jonny Gomes, Laynce Nix type in the offseason.
by Brendanukkah on Jun 29, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
who doesn't care about winning?
and why are you so convinced that Matt Holliday is what this team really needs. Can he play SS or CF?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Did anyone watch the Toronto series, this is a no brainer. Scott Rolen. He is a midwest product that on his way out of Philly wanted the Reds of Cardinals. Move EdE to left Field.
by Eric Davis for Manager on Jun 29, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions
why would the Blue Jays want to give him up though?
They’re still in the race and he’s one of their main offensive and defensive forces.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
May be wishful thinking but at least it someone worth talking about.
by Eric Davis for Manager on Jun 29, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
For me if the Reds want to win
I say Holliday. And it’s not even close. I guess I could be happy with Willingham, but I think what Matt Holliday would do in the NL Central and in GABP in the last half of a contract year could be sick good. That reason alone intrigues me.
As for the others:
Wiggington is no improvement over Edwin
Lugo and Matthews on the list made me laugh.
If you can get Holliday without having to give up Alonso, Frazier, Heisey, Stubbs, Stewart, or Soto, I say do it. He is the cleanup hitter we’ve always wanted. Imagine the protection he could provide Votto & Bruce.
Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle
i'd say do it including only one of the peeps from your do not trade list
"We're going to Adonis, son"
jch24
Protection he could provide Bruce?
Holliday is gonna bat 8th?
"Don't let the brain interfere with the heart" -- Albert Einstein
Holliday has a sponsorship deal with Trojan.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
But does Jocketty want to install a "Ribbies for your pleasure" counter at GABP?
by Brendanukkah on Jun 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How About?
Rangers trade Hank Blalock to the reds for Bronson Arroyo when Volquez comes back?
what would the Reds do with Blalock?
no DH in the NL.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 29, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
how about the Rangers trade josh hamiltno for Arroyo when Volquez comes back
imagine how awesome it would be to have hamilton and Volquez on the same team
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jun 30, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Lemme fix that for you
imagine how awesome it would be to have hamilton and Volquez on the same team DL
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
wait a minuate
are you insinuating that it would be awesome if Hamilton and Volquez are gay togeather?
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jun 30, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Can we trade Bronson for anybody? If so, i want that trade.
I’ll take my chances with Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Maloney, Owings and Harang.
How about we just trade Bronson for a competent hitting coach?
Whoa
You wouldn’t happen to be a retarded rabbit would you?
"Don't let the brain interfere with the heart" -- Albert Einstein
I'm always nice
I thought of posting a pic to go with it but what fun is that?
"Don't let the brain interfere with the heart" -- Albert Einstein
Oh you can all go to hell!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jun 29, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Jose Guillen anyone?
I didn’t think so. Aubrey Huff, meanwhile, might be a nice fit.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jun 29, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions
Excuse me Dr. Turtle
But we don’t need no stinkin’ bat
Now maybe if she can run in those shoes..
Here’s Honey – 3B and cleanup hitter for the Millers Town Skaggettes
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
George Carlin
You guys are looking at this all wrong
We need upgrades at CF, 3B, or SS. Gomes/Nix isn’t that bad, altough Holliday would provide a significant improvement.
I think they should try to trade an Alonso package for Ryan Zimmerman.
Miguel Tejada could be a nice fit at SS.
A Dickerson/Stubbs or Dickerson/Willy T CF would be an upgrade over all Willy T all the time.
I do not think they go after Holliday for this reason. If they got Zimmerman I would freaking shit myself. Zimmerman/Votto in our line-up would be freaking deadly. Regardless, if we want to stay in contention, they have to made some moves to improve the offense.
by Dave from Louisville on Jun 30, 2009 8:10 AM EDT reply actions
Zimmerman is not going anywhere
He’s the face of the franchise, and the building block of the team. He’s more important to the Nationals than even Stephen Strasbourg. Your pants thank you, because Zimmerman is beyond a pipe dream.
by Brendanukkah on Jun 30, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
i would absolutely shit myself if the Reds got Zimmerman as well
we should get Roy Halladay too. oh yeah, and Carlos Beltran, Derek Jeter, and Joe Mauer! TEHN WE’D BE TEH BEST!!!!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 30, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
plus i doubt Alonso is going anywhere aslong as he is injured
while his injury isn’t that scary, teams probably want to make sure he is okay, before giving up a marquee player for him.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Jun 30, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt Alonso has any trade value right now
He’s basically still a draft pick at this point. And with the injury, I can’t see anybody being that enthralled with acquiring him.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
PTBNL
He’d have to be a PTBNL since he’s on the DL, right?
And they can’t trade picks for one year…after they sign or after they’re drafted?
It's one year after they sign
However, they can be traded as a PTBNL, as long as they are eligible to be traded within six months.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
oh, and
You can trade players who are on the DL. Chris Denorfia was traded when he was on the DL recovering from TJ surgery.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
nope
I’m not saying that he’s not worth having, but if it is a team trading a player worthy of a top prospect, I don’t think Alonso is going to match up right now. As prospects go, he’s still basically an unknown.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
no he isnt
he was the #7 pick in the draft. he’s rated as the #1 prospect in a pretty deep system. he may not have a track record in pro ball, but his amateur record and scouting reports speak volumes to his value and projection as a ballplayer. i agree teams may shy away due to the injury, but he is pretty far from an unknown. Bryce Harper isnt even an unknown.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 30, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
okay, maybe unknown is too strong of a word
but his value hasn’t advanced much beyond where it was as a draft pick when you take his injury into account. He may be the Reds #1 prospect, but his trade value isn’t going to be at that level right now, so why trade him?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
agreed
i wouldnt trade Alonso regardless of injury right now.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 30, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
AND
of the 3 positions you mentioned, 3B is the least in need of an upgrade once EdE comes back, which should be soon.
With Valaika looking like he’s farther away than we thought, and Cozart trapped behind him, we need a SS.
Keeping your theme, maybe the Mets would give us Jose Reyes. He is injured after all, maybe we could dupe them
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
ooh, he could play shortstop then!
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I still don't trust Jocketty
He’s a douchebag. I’m getting ready for the Roenicke-for-Juan Uribe trade.
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