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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Sabermetrics, Small Ball, and Loose Women

After the first month, of a new season, without Griffey or Dunn, the Reds are keeping their heads above .500 with small ball. This post is not only a way for me to channel my optimism through the internet, it is a way for me to enjoy the way that this season isn`t really falling into the hands of sabermetrics thus far.

I enjoy all of the statistics provided on this website, I must admit, that I was never much for even OBP in the past. Even when I played baseball, I hated walking...hated it. It was this baseball version of purgatory, where I didn`t have the satifaction of a hit, nor the pain of a K. Now, having said this, I always respected a walk while watching the game and still do, but as a player...f that.

Outside of OPS, I have been reluctant to accept any newly created stats, there is a time when to me, numbers cannot compensate for the game, and cannot really explain the game. Kepp was a good player to me; he didnt have power, or a prolific glove, or overwhelming speed, but he always made contact, and had a high BA. There is a luck factor in baseball, and sometimes it decides whether or not the ball is going to drop. You might hit the ball square, but it doesnt always mean a hit, but when you are constantly putting the ball in play, you never know what can happen.

This year the Reds are being carried, absolutely carried by Votto, and Im sure any stats that are used on this site will support the fact that he is a beast. When you are`nt a beast though, things slip through the cracks of SABR, and the team gets lost in this focus on single player statistics. But, that is what baseball fans do, I spend plenty of time myself on Baseball-Reference.com looking up stats of players of today and yesterday in order to compare them.

Lets take Willy T as an example, he is not doing great right now, but when he does get on base, and when our failing 2 spot platoon behind him k`s, Votto can get him to home from first with a single...often. His speed covers an upsurd amount of ground in the OF as well, that isnt in OPS.

Lets take A-Gonz as another example, his batting average is definately sub-par right now, but his defense has compensated so much up the middle, and I said it at the beginning of the year, I think he is the most important part of this team if we are to be good this year. When you are relying on one consistent player, and a group of inconsistent rag-tags around him in the batting order, the SS has to be an absolute black hole at D. I think A-Gonz is that, and I don`t think anyone can replace him, BUT after this year I do look forward to seeing something from Chris V. (I dont think our line-up is full of rag-tags, but so far in April it is)

Another example...Edwin. Least favorite player on the team. He goes down with an injury and all of the sudden Rosales is making him not so missed. I feel like SABR and SABR fans perpetuate this notion that the HR is the most important thing in the game. This isn`t true, the HR is something that can make a person who has never played the game sit in awe of a sport that is...well pretty boring. The HR gets people to watch. That why nobody wanted Dunn for the price, except the Nationals, they need people to watch.

You can be a good baseball player without holding the ability to hit the HR. Dunn has a high BA thus far and a great OBP, but he is on a crappy, crappy team. So right now, the only stat that matters to me is this...6-17, thats the Nationals record. The Nationals have the #16 team BA in baseball, the Reds are #28. The Nationals are #17 in HR and the Reds are #24...we are 13-11 with no offense. None.

So here is some optimism, we can pretty much be sure that the number of players on our team batting under .220 will decrease, we can hope Phillips will stop trying to hit home runs and just hit the ball, and we can hope that Aaron Harang doesnt break his hand while punching things after his starts. Hopefully this all happens soon, because I feel like Leo in Titanic...above water, but cold, not dead, but waiting for some help to get out of the water...if we stay in the water, we are going to die.

Apart from optimism I have questions. "How good would we be if Dusty was not the manager?" "When is he going to screw this up?" "How long can we stay afloat without the bats?" "Why is Brantly an announcer?" "How many people are going to get laid on singles night this year?" These my friends, are questions I release into the universe and ponder every night.

So in closing, I will say a few things, we won`t win if we keep this up, there is no way. If we do, I will be on the edge of my seat all season and smugly happy about the fact that Adam Dunn fans will just be confused. I always say SB and baserunning are important parts of the game, some people disagree. When you have smart speed on the bases, the ability to put the ball in play, and a solid glove, that, to me, outbalances the HR, it gives the player a more complete game. I dont want a hall inductee on a bad team, I want a World Series ring, a good experience to get boozed up during, and something to brag to my little Reds fan children about.

I`m not saying the real elaborat stats are wrong, they are numbers, Im not going to preach against them like its evolution, and look like I reject math. I just think when some things get so complex, simple things that make up the sport get lost in the numbers. Numbers like words, can be contorted.

 Oh yeah, and speaking of numbers and SABR......did I mention our pitching has been lights out? Fans of SABR and fans of rankings can both appreciate that.

I love me some loose women.

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I dont think I have the math skills or the time to be a true

card carrying SABR member. But I was an early reader of Bill James abstracts along with Norman Mailer. One of the aspects I loved besides Bill James being a great writer irrespective of topic was he would actually test the assertions that would be casually tossed about as conventional wisdom. This is always entertaining and an illimunating exercise.
So I am squarely on the side of the statheads but the scouts that mocked for instance the As for valuing any player that could draw a walk and hit a home run(clearly that is not how Billie Bean is operating right now sans Jack Cust) are having their revenge as the recent trend is for the sabermetric community to recognize the value of speed and defense to a much great extent than earlier when the community was trying to wean the public off batting averages to OBP and hopefully some type of runs created formula(which does incorporate SB and which Willie Taveras is doing quite well in these measure year to date although he isnt scoring from 1st base as you suggested on Joey Votto singles).
Fangraphs and one of their main writers David Cameron- I would say is leading the charge in having an accurate accounting of defense into player values.
They had Adam Dunn as worth 8 million a year on ave for the last 3 years pretty close to what a market without Jim Bowden as a market participant would have valued Dunn.
Of course even with hanging 25 defensive rating on Dunn so far this year – he is still on pace for close to a 5 win year or his FMV close to 20 million so far not a bad signing by Jimbo and despite my deep love of Dickerson the Reds would be much better with Adam right now in LF or maybe even better Adam at 1st base/ Votto LF or at least the Reds should have experimented with this combination.
So in summary
the sabermetric community is definitly incorporating both speed and defense into their machinations as apparently are alot of clubs if the deep freeze for all hit no glove LFs is any indication this past winter.
I believed and still believe the Reds have a shot at the playoffs not because the got rid of Dunn and Griffey but because the got rid of Griffey whom unfortunatley was the worse RF in the league last year. The main reason for optimistism is the Reds have potentially the best pitching staff in the NL and if they can get a break out year from Bruce and league average offense from either Dickerson/Nix in Left and slighly under league average from Taveras in CF- this team may just have enough offense to support a great defensive team.
Also I think Dusty has been nothing short of masterful in the way he has handled the pitching staff and I like the smooth tones of the Cowboy even if he pleats on about stuff like closers having a 10 era in non-close situations in those moments we need our own Cincinnati Bill James to set the record straight.

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 1:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Dave Cameron

is leading the charge against an accurate accounting of defense.

by ol Pete on May 4, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am having a bit of trouble comprehending this.

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 4, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

in short

the sabermetric community is increasingly factoring speed defense into the player values.
For instance an old school stat head favorite Adam Dunn average value the last 3 years was 8 million dollars by Fangraphs value weightings while a player that scouts would love Carl Crawford was valued at 13 million a year despite playing a power position and never hitting more than 20 HRs in a year.
I am pretty sure if you ran a poll anytime in the last 3 years asking if the Reds should trade Dunn straight up for Carl Crawford the answer would be a resounding no from this community. But this view is out of date with the new research. And the Reds this year are definitely benefitting this year from playing in effect 3 CFs when the lineup includes Dickerson/Nix, Taveras, Bruce in the OF.

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

CTOWNBOY!!!

http://www.redreporter.com/2008/2/15/12914/7315

you may judge us here. I believe the sentiment was that Carl Crawford was great, but the Reds didn’t have him and the Rays wouldn’t trade him to us. Adam Dunn was in house and valuable to an offense that didn’t do the thing he did well.

Will you stop it with the vegetables

by Man Mountain on May 4, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just now read thru that whole old post...

he was very angry that day apparently….i dont think i have seen him around here in the 4 months or so i have been on here…..so what happened to ol’ ctownboy?

HAVOC...your everyday solution to clogged bases

by Teewrecks44 on May 6, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

he never re-registered

when the site went to the new and improved platform. as far as i know he went back to the bowels of the internet from whence he came.

go look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 6, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

i see

i mean…that was awesome to read….like i said, i am still fairly new…but that was one of the most entertaining things i have read so far

i wish someone like that would pop up again…maybe tonight

and the Saturday post was pretty good as well

HAVOC...your everyday solution to clogged bases

by Teewrecks44 on May 6, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's still around

I’ve seen him spout his misguided nonsense in the comments at MLBTR, as recently as this season.

"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley

by BK on May 6, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

still goes by ctownboy i presume?

HAVOC...your everyday solution to clogged bases

by Teewrecks44 on May 6, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

He does

He also still hates Adam Dunn, shockingly enough.

"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley

by BK on May 6, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

figured as much

its just looking back at that post…lots of people saying that Dunn should be locked up, or that he was going to be for sure…

oh how times have changed

HAVOC...your everyday solution to clogged bases

by Teewrecks44 on May 6, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

though most of us are robots

we are still not immune to the fevers of whimsy.

go look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 6, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

10100001010! 1010010LOLZ!

"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley

by BK on May 6, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm.

Now I understand what you’re saying. While I don’t usually correct people’s grammar or spelling unless the errors are humorous, I think your post could benefit from a grammatical use of capitalization and punctuation, as well as paragraph breaks.

I would disagree with the assertion that people here would not have traded Adam Dunn straight-up for Crawford (as Man Mountain has already pointed out).

In addition, Dickerson has had some pretty major goofs in the field (even before bonking his head on Miguel Tejada), and actually McDonald and Hairston have gotten a lot of time in the outfield. None of them is producing offensively. I do not have the stats to back it up, but I would bet that the combination of McDonald, Hairston, Nix and Dickerson in LF winds up below replacement level (even when factoring in defense).

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 4, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting.........Hmmmmmmmmmm

“I’m not a fan of facts. You see, the facts can change, but my opinion will never change, no matter what the facts are.”
Stephen Colbert

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 4, 2009 7:39 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

A couple of questions

1) Why would you bother to post this?
2) Do you think these two kids will make it?

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on May 4, 2009 9:19 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I have the answer...

To at least 1). For me and everyone else to poop on.

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pops you always ask the hard question, the ones that other RRS avoid

That’s why you’re so damn respected here…and as usual you have the appropriate response..an answer even..
I’ve co-opted this from you because….like you it says it all….

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Adams counts as a kid?

Let me write out a formal proof for you.

by Gray on May 6, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes,

The man-child born of heartbreak and bullshit.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on May 6, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

the new UZR ratings are updated

this is an appropriate thread to get your stat geek on.
And one highlight the REDS OF defense #1 in the NL(sample size warnings) from a 15th rating last year. Despite alot of errors some misplayed balls- the Reds are putting out on the field usually 3 pretty fast guys and Bruce has adjusted to RF and is the #1 defensive RF by a pretty good margin.
Taveras numbers look like his Houston fiedling numbers comes in at #3 CF.
Dickerson/Nix/Hairston LF combo comes in at 4th.
Pretty dramatic change and leads some early data that at least defensively the Reds could be in for a Tampa Bay improvement in their runs allowed.

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions  

does the outcome agree

when the source of raw data is changed as it should? Do PMR and RZR/OOZ produce the same results? Are the UZR ratings consistent with career performances?

by ol Pete on May 4, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes- its consistent for most players

I think an issue definitely exists with Coors Field. Right now Taveras numbers are right in line with his Houston numbers. The other numbers for the Reds are what you would expect with the cavaet is we are dealing with a tiny sample size for the YTD. But then again EE is horrible UZR as always- Phillips is one of the top 2nd basemen- Gonzales was around 10 which would match observations so yes I do believe the numbers are meaningful.
Obviously, fiedling stats are evolving and are not as cut and dry as offensive numbers but that doesnt warrant not attempting to incorporate these numbers in player value calculations like a lot of old timers like to do.

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the reason why most common fans

have a hard time with placing such importance on fielding is the natural reaction is the pitchers receive 90% of the credit for limiting runs.
For instance right now the Reds are averaging 4.16 runs a game compared to 4.93 last year for a saving of 127 runs difference.
The pitching will receive the lionshare credit for this difference but the removing Griffey and Dunn from the OF could alone count for 50 runs of this difference.
And it also makes sense that the Reds should permanently bench EE for Rosales and go for a max defense solution.

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Putting aside the mythology about old timers

if your statements are supposed to respond to the questions I asked the Reds would be a remarkable team. UZR comes out quite different on a significant number of players when the raw data is switched from one provider to the other. I can’t draw anything about other defensive metrics from the above.

Not only is the sample size incredibly small, but the results should be averaged.

by ol Pete on May 4, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am using Fangraphs Fielding Stats

using by team position not individual players on their site. So far they have the REDS OF 8.8 UZR compared to 32 for 2008. If you pro rate it out the Reds would be plus 60 runs saved in the OF compared to 2008. The sample size is implicit but any rational observer would predict the Reds had a great shot of being 20 runs better at both corner spots compared to last year.
If you have other fielding stats YTD – I would be interested in seeing how the project the Reds OF so far. But right now the Reds defense numbers are coming in right where I expect them sub 700 and if Cueto breaks through I think the Reds have a shot of getting close to 650 runs allowed

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude.

What is going on with the strike throughs. You make some good points but they’re getting drowned in a sea of text and lines. And please, paragraph breaks.

by ken on May 4, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

when I put a minus the text lines out the next sentence

so in the future I will use paranthesis for negative numbers like my HS math teach taught me. So the lined out portion is the Reds UZR YTD is 8.8/ 2008 (32). If the trend continues the Reds would save around 60 runs in the OF defense. Obviously the sample siz is implicit but I dont think this projection is at odds with observations ie if you replace Dunn and Griffey/Bruce(whom by is own admission didnt adjust well to RF last year- with 3 OF that can play CF defense- you are going to have a big runs saved number year over year.

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

Taveras and Bruce have looked good so far, and the numbers support my eyes. I was worried about Taveras because he was coming off two down years by UZR. I’m sure UZR accounts for parks, but it’s worth noting that Houston and Colorado are probably the two toughest CFs to play.

by ken on May 4, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fangraphs UZR

also hung a 37 on Brad Hawpe last year and I dont know if that is even humanly possible.

by davidmac84 on May 4, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is the problem I have with UZR

And nobody’s been able to explain it to me. I understand that UZR uses the same raw hit location data as RZR (which I can see at Hardball Times), but I can’t work backwards by adding the UZR Runs back in to make any sense. Here’s an example:

For 2008, Dunn’s Range UZR and Error UZR have him at -11.4 Runs in LF. Using JinAZ’s Run Value series, each play in LF is worth 0.831 Runs. So, Dunn is 14 plays below average in LF.

Now, going back to the raw data in RZR, I should be able to add 14 plays to Dunn’s totals, and make him look like a league average OF. Dunn had 161 Plays on 179 Balls in his Zone, for a .899 RZR, plus 30 Out of Zone plays. If I add 14 plays back to that, I can get him to 164 plays In Zone, and 44 plays Out of Zone, which puts him slightly ahead of Fred Lewis in a similary number of innings (he had a .907 RZR and 40 OOZ Plays). Lewis was a +5 run defender by UZR.

It’s a little convoluted, but essentially, Dunn +14 plays should be a league average outfielder. But, if you go back to the raw data, Dunn it appears that +14 plays is better than a +5 run defender (Lewis).

I don’t deny that Dunn is a poor defensive outfielder. But, given the noise in the stats, the difference in parks, and the small sample sizes involved, I have a hard time putting a whole lot of stock in those numbers, especially down to the tenth of a run.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 4, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

but i still like UZR. is it the end of the line, last defensive stat we will ever need? no. but it is very easy to read and seems pretty intuitive. it works great in comparing players, but as for generating total value stats im a little less confident in it. but i still like it.

Consider the Eskimos.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 5, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

dang

And here I’ve been wondering how to do -strikeouts. The usual slash-s HTML code doesn’t work.

Maybe it only works with numbers? If I write -23 what will happen?

Doesn’t work for me…

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 4, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have to put one on both sides of the text

by Daedalus on May 5, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are hitting me with so much knowledge right now

But the rambling tone of it all sort of has my eyes dried out and red, jaw dropped with drool dripping out of the side and

by Reynard on May 4, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

the reason I wrote what I did

was because I could tell you were using fangraphs. The stuff I wrote was to help you.

You’re asking about YTD and you need years of data.

by ol Pete on May 4, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess in my

post where I stated FanGraphs and David Camerson were on the Vanguard of incorporated defensive numbers in total value ratings tipped you off.
Yes I know YTD is a small sample size. Its a specific time frame like 2008- your comment about years of date is non sensical.
With a specific players- most would use a 3 year rolling average but when talking about a team you usually use the seasons as your beginning point and ultimately your ending point ie so for in 2009 the Reds defense is very good/ so far 2009 the Reds OF seem fast ie faster than 2008. You can get the idea- years of data can not help you understand what is going on with this current rendition of the Cincinnati Reds.

by davidmac84 on May 5, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I suppose you could call him part of a vanguard

because he is making it easily accessible. Its not a new idea and he isn’t the first. The reason people use years of data is because even the people who make it acknowledge its crudity. Just because “most” people do something doesn’t make the result reliable or valid.

The reason I suggested other fielding stats is because they usually provide different results. UZR provides different results with a different provider of data.

by ol Pete on May 5, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

My sources tell me that if Rosales continues hitting reasonable well

that Double E will be gonzo (pun, get it, pun) ASAP from the Redleg organization. You might not see him back at all with the big league team or not until a lengthy rehab is over in AAA, during which time the Reds will try mightily to move him. I’m sorry but no, I cannot reveal my sources…even under threat of incarnation (That’s Edwin Incarnation)!

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 4, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Does this make it better?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 4, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please tell me...

That this was somehow computer generated and was not purely the product of your “fertile” imagination.

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 4, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could not achieve 'Master Baiter' level like the Mountain!!!!

Man Boobs for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 4, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

A few thoughts...

You should not be able to live within 5 miles of any school, it started out funny, but after 3 paragraphs I was wondering “who comes up with this?” and then after 6 I was creeped out and wondering why you arent in jail.

by Reynard on May 4, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Rey do you like to play twister..

I mean you want to talk about serious deviant sexual and psychological behavior, this prolly ain’t the best blog. As for Man Mountain’s humor ? – He’s goddamn funny…really really really funny. So please just stick to ‘The Facts, Sir" and not don’t fall into the temptation to attack the other poster..Unless it is me…I could give a fuck…but I won’t…not at my age.

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 5, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Welp here is the deal

I will continue to aknowledge the graphic sexual humor if someone will finally pick up on my sarcastic and sharp sense of humor

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha no

I actually hate that guy with a passion, at least I try to be clever and pretend to love my girlfriend

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh...

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 5, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was sarcastic, right?

I think I’m starting to get it.

"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley

by BK on May 5, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

i dont get it

"I've actually never had a drink before, tonight I might try it out. We'll see."
—Dodgers pitcher Clayton Kershaw, on turning 21

by obc2 on May 5, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha.

He fooled you?

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 5, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hokay.

Before y’all get real excited, sometimes it’s really important to look at the tree in the forest.

Adam Rosales: Is hitting .417. .417!!! Before you christen him the next Mike Schmidt, you might want to think about whether he’s likely to keep that up; he also has exactly 1 XBH (a double, last year) in 47 career MLB PA. Sure, EdE has struggled this year, but he’s been playing with a broken wrist; think that may have something to do with it?

AGon: Hasn’t been a “black hole” on defense; he’s been just a tick below average according to range factor, and UZR has him as nowhere near average. HOwever, he has been a black hole offensively, with an OBA of .226 and SLG of .300.

Tavares: Has not scored from 1st on a single this year. He’s scored from 1st 3 times: CDick and Hairston HRs, and a Votto 2B.

The offense: All of that running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off may look pretty, but it isn’t translating into runs. The Reds are on pace to score 628 runs this year. The last NL team to score fewer than 630 runs was the ‘04 DBacks; they lost 111 games that year. More importantly, (1) the offense has scored fewer runs than the defense has allowed; that isn’t a recipe for winning baseball and the record will soon reflect that, and (2) the pitching staff, if you haven’t noticed, has thrown 3 shutouts in the past 4 games; that, too, is unlikely to continue.

As for sabermetrics? Nothing replaces watching the game (except playing it, but none of us are good enough). There’s only one way to win a baseball game – score more runs than your opponent. What sabermetrics tries to explain is how teams do that; it isn’t voodoo. When people say that OBA is more important than BA, that’s because getting on base is much more important than how you did it; similarly, SLG is more important than BA because the more bases you move, the more likely you are to score; the more you score, the more likely you are to win. Sabermetrics looks at all of the things a baseball player/team can do, and tries to answer the question “What’s the best way to score more runs than my opponent?” Nothing more, nothing less.

What Beane does in Oakland is use sabermetrics to answer a different question: “What players are undervalued by the market?” If he’s moved away from the high-OBA players he had before, either (1) they’re no longer undervalued, or (2) he’s misreading the data. High OBA players, like great defenders, high SLG players, and lights-out pitchers, are always good players; he just wants to know what attributes aren’t being paid for on the open market, and trying to exploit it.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 4, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I wasnt discrediting Sabermetrics,

I pretty much said I didnt, I just think it takes away from the game, or life….I think DaceMac proves this

by Reynard on May 4, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, no

What davemac is saying is that the Reds’ defense is vastly improved over last year, at least in the OF, which certainly matches observation. In fact, he was using advanced defensive stats to show this, not saying they “take away form the game”.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do sabremetrics take away from the game?

Most people would say, and I think that you wouldn’t disagree, that the traditional statistics shape our understanding of it.

Why some numbers and not others? Why is batting average good and OBP bad? Why not runs created instead of RBI?

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on May 5, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

like why would you want less knowledge?

although there is something to say about the whimsy of believing the moon is made of cheese.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 5, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, let us all frolic in the whimsy of judging defense by fielding percentage

while wearing paisley boots and carrying parasols made of rainbows.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on May 5, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

the moon could be made of cheese

this is still a possibility considering that man has yet to land on the moon(the moon landing was filmed on a hollywood sound stage) and NASA was only a front for research into steriods and HGH so that Bud Selig could save the popularity of the national pastime.

Canseco, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and A-Roid, owe everything to NASA and the fake space program

6-2, 185

by brown11b on May 6, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was sort of saying DaveMac

proves it takes away from life….that was kind of the driving point

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at the game only by the numbers...

turns it into some Matrix version of a sport, yes it is helpful, yes it is right (as i said before it is math, I wont discredit math)

But a stat doesnt account for every diving catch, or robbed home run or home plate collision, or walk off home run, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I just sort of takes emotion away from things, and yes I think stats are a good thing, they are part of baseball, but some of these are so obscure and take so much time and effort to calculate, that I would say unless you are getting paid, yo uare kind of consuming valued hours of life.

Just my opinion.

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh and yes, numbers can still be twisted and skewed

And leave out other factors of a player….I.E. DUNN and people basing him as a great player soley on his batting stats (I am not purposely opening up this can of worms, I will not read any stats of Dunn that rebut this, we have already gone over all of that enough, and done so passionately, so lets not backtrack)

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

we hate baseball

because we like number.

/P-DOC’D

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 5, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

10100100001001

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 5, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

bout time

somebody rec’s a number post around here.

I think 5’s are pretty.

But my favorite number is 17, because it’s the second-highest prime under 20.

What could possibly match the raw emotion of that?

by bbjones on May 6, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um...ok.
But a stat doesnt account for every diving catch

Defensive stats account for making more/fewer plays than the average player at your position, so yes they do.

or robbed home run

Again, yes they do.
or home plate collision

Why is this important? Do you get extra credit for injuring someone?
or walk off home run

Why is a HR (which you don’t like) in the 9th inning any more or less important than a HR in the 6th?
I just sort of takes emotion away from things

We watch the games for enjoyment; we revisit the stats to explain what happened. That seems to get lost on people like you. I don’t sit, during the game, and refigure the stats constantly – that’s not what this is about.
some of these are so obscure and take so much time and effort to calculate, that I would say unless you are getting paid, yo uare kind of consuming valued hours of life

There’s this newfangled thing called the internet. On this internet, there are these things called websites. And on these websites, you can find all sorts of things like Votto is 7th in the NL in Runs Created, or the Reds’ defense is barely above average, or that the Reds’ baserunning is, despite what everyone thinks, still pretty crappy.

That’s what’s so frustrating about people like you. The information that you denigrate as “so obscure” and “take(s) so much time and effort to calculate” is freely and easily available to anyone with 2 fingers to type with (they even have software now that you can just talk to your computer – no typing neccessary!).

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

what bothers me about people like you

Is that you get your panties is a bunch so easily that I dont know you and I fear for your blood pressure. I never said I dont like home runs, for the 20th time on this post, I said I think they are overrated.

Pick up a dictionary and learn what words mean, how they change in sentence structure, and how taking things out of context, or simply clipping out sentences you disagree with without looking at the whole point changes language.

Its called English, and its been around longer than the internet, when you are American and have two ears or eyes you can just simply go to these things called “thoughts”

Now obscure wouldnt be what ranking we are in runs or that we have a bad defense, it would be things like the WAPB or whatever the hell that stat is that is OPS on steroids, Im not against stats, I even said I agree with them NUMEROUS TIMES.

I would say yeah a walk off home run in the 9th is more important than a hr in the 6th, and a bigger deal.

I dont think I said anything about injury or me liking injuries, but hitting the catcher to make him drop the ball is part of the game that doesnt have a stat (once again inserting words to argue how you perceive something but not how it is written)

I used to be a catcher for 9 years, you dont get injured most of the time, its called catchers gear……plastic metal and padding that the runner doesnt have

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

Just because the ratio of narcissism to basis for said narcissism has got to be a record.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 6, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I've never used a signature here

But I am seriously tempted to borrow one of your lines: Its called English, and its been around longer than the internet, when you are American and have two ears or eyes you can just simply go to these things called "thoughts"

by ken on May 6, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?
I never said I dont like home runs, for the 20th time on this post, I said I think they are overrated.

Since this rant is against those who espouse advanced stats, and those advanced stats seem to put a pretty good measure on the value of a HR over a single, explain how they should be properly rated.

Its called English, and its been around longer than the internet, when you are American and have two ears or eyes you can just simply go to these things called "thoughts"

I don’t know what that is, but it isn’t English.
Now obscure wouldnt be what ranking we are in runs or that we have a bad defense, it would be things like the WAPB or whatever the hell that stat is that is OPS on steroids, Im not against stats, I even said I agree with them NUMEROUS TIMES.

I’m not familiar with WAPB; however, WARP (Wins Above Replacement Player) is easily available.
I would say yeah a walk off home run in the 9th is more important than a hr in the 6th, and a bigger deal.

OK. Why is a run in the 9th more important than a run in the 6th? A bigger deal, sure, but just like the unassisted triple play, not so terribly more important than any other run.
I dont think I said anything about injury or me liking injuries, but hitting the catcher to make him drop the ball is part of the game that doesnt have a stat (once again inserting words to argue how you perceive something but not how it is written)

Why is scoring in this way any more/less impressive or important than scoring any other way? We already account for gaining more bases than average; how you do it (evading the catcher or running over him) is completely unimportant.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have been looking for you Sid and now I have found you

You are the person I am trying to find, and you have proved the point of my post.

“OK. Why is a run in the 9th more important than a run in the 6th? A bigger deal, sure, but just like the unassisted triple play, not so terribly more important than any other run”

to a complete stathead this isnt a difference, but if you score in the 6th its a 6th inning run…if you score in the 9th it is the game winning run, there is a stigma that is different, making it more important, more exciting, and what someone would say was “the most important run of the game” because I mean, it won the game.

Now a run is a run yes, on paper, but if you run over the catcher and they drop the ball you created that run, when before you were caught dead and an out. Instead of being out, you have created a run out of extra effort. Its different…but of course, not on a stat sheet.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Do you even have thoughts, or are you just typing random words?

to a complete stathead this isnt a difference, but if you score in the 6th its a 6th inning run…if you score in the 9th it is the game winning run, there is a stigma that is different, making it more important, more exciting, and what someone would say was "the most important run of the game" because I mean, it won the game.

I get that it’s more exciting. But why is it more important? Those are the words you used – “more important”. If the run scores in the 6th, the run in the 9th isn’t needed, is it? It becomes the “game winner”, just not as obviously.
Now a run is a run yes, on paper, but if you run over the catcher and they drop the ball you created that run, when before you were caught dead and an out. Instead of being out, you have created a run out of extra effort. Its different…but of course, not on a stat sheet.

Another question you still aren’t answering – how is it more important to run over the catcher than to run around him? It’s still a run, accounted for the same on the score sheet and in the more advanced stats.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Run around him?

Is Flash a major league baseball player now?

the game still has time to change and there are chances to catch up in the 6th. Pressure changes the approach or hitters and pitchers, but in the 9th that is it, there is no more innings. It literally is the game winning run. Literally.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

But...

a solo HR in the 6th inning of a 1-0 game isn’t the game winning run?

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Goddamn you

you know that changes the nature of the argument for that instance. But in the 6th you dont know that is the game winning run, it could be trumped by 9th inning runs.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know i thought about arguing with this

but i realized it is just a waste of time. If you were in my class I probably would have sent you to time out by now.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

How?

You said a walk-off HR is more important than a HR in the 6th inning. Here’s your quote:

I would say yeah a walk off home run in the 9th is more important than a hr in the 6th, and a bigger deal.

My question is, if a HR in the 6th is the decisive run, why is it less important than a run in the 9th? It’s not changing the arguement at all.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Evading the catcher

Yes, the more generally accepted way to score is to run/slide around the tag; being a catcher, I assumed you already knew this.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah that what you do when its close

When you are running over the catcher, that pretty much says you have no shot at sliding or running around (which just really doesnt happen) the catcher.

You hit the catcher if you have 12+ feet to go and the catcher is sitting there with the ball in his glove…in all estimations you are more than likely going to be tagged out…..but if you somehow can knock the ball loose, you have accomplished quite the feat, so yeah to me that run is more impressive than a normal standing run scored on a double off the wall

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It also would seem like you made a base-running blunder, if the catcher already has the ball with that much time ahead of you

I suppose you get character points for trying to make the best out of a bad situation, but I would wager that the catcher holds on to the ball more often than the baserunner would dislodge it. That makes an out, and erases a runner from scoring position, and you’ve brought the game that much closer to an end.

Running into the catcher is a gamble, just like trying to steal a base is a gamble. The times that it works, it’s exciting, but in the grand scheme of things, it fails more often than it succeeds. It’s more of a detriment to your team than a positive contribution.

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or...

The 3rd base coach made a blunder, or the guy has a cannon in center that you underrated, or you lost your footing running home.

“but I would wager that the catcher holds on to the ball more often than the baserunner would dislodge it. That makes an out, and erases a runner from scoring position, and you’ve brought the game that much closer to an end.”

this was in the context of success, not failure, and that run being held higher than a regular stand up run scored. The point I was making is that it is harder to do because like you say i would wager the catcher holds on, you would wager that the chances of getting the run are slimmer than when scoring uncontested.

I am saying that this makes this run more impressive

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's fine

It’s still worth one point. It’s more impressive because the larger probability is failure, which does not get your team that one point. So yes, if you look at everything solely in the context of successful events, running over the catcher is a great, impressive thing. When it’s not successful, which is most of the time, it’s a boneheaded play by either the coach or the player.

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Running into the catcher.

Only ok if it’s your older sister and your have a hell of an inferiority complex.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on May 6, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

or if the guy was a dick to you in little league camp

and this is your big opportunity to get him back, god that ejection was soooooooo worth it, the best part was the sonuvabitch didn’t even have the ball…

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm afraid

You’re having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 6, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thank you

seriously did you get that from “Book of the Courtier” ?

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yet...

He never said that. Or hinted at it. Once.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm

Well the point I was trying to prove really didnt concern me pointing out that English is on the internet.

There is a difference between English words and proper English, you know, structure, realizing meanings change from sentence to sentence, and how a simple change can contort the message.

But no, rec`d is not English

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yeah, it should have been typed like this Sid

He never said that, or hinted at it once.

Starting sentences with or…tisk tisk.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it shouldn't have.

It was typed how it would be spoken.

I’ve gotten a headache trying to read your rants. You may not want to challenge me on grammer, usage, or sentence structure.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I was a kid

you left your late-night, alcohol/drug-induced nonsensical ramblings on the answering machine of some chic you met earlier at the bar.

Kids and the internet….

by bengalred on May 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I already slayed her box an hour before I posted

And Im trying to cut down on the post-bang eating binges, so I turned to RealReds

by Reynard on May 4, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno I enjoyed it

I always enjoy me a Renyard post

Dusty Baker said it was the first [triple play] he’d seen in person. When he was with the Dodgers, they hit into one, but he was in the bathroom.- C Trent

by The Crushinator on May 4, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Small Ball. Oh, goody!

First of all, I’m not even sure what the hell “Small Ball” is anymore. People seem to change the meaning to whatever fits their argument. Originally, I thought it meant an offensive philosophy based around early-count contact, speed on the bases, and single run strategies as a way to score runs while avoiding Three True Outcome-type hitters. That seemed reasonable, until it started being applied to Teams that hit homers and struck out a lot. I was confused, to say the least. Now, it seems like people use it as some bizarre way to explain their terrible offenses by lumping it in with pitching and defense, and saying something about “manufacturing” runs.

So, I guess I’d like some kind of concise definition of what exactly the hell you mean when you say “Small Ball.”

Your insane rantings against the Home Run (the single best thing you can do in any plate appearance) strike me as an example of what Joe Posnanski calls “Diloneism,” or the misguided belief that your success is attributable to what is actually your biggest weakness. The Reds are winning despite their inability to hit the long ball, not because of it. I’ve heard an old adage that baseball players don’t understand “despite,” but I’ve never seen it in practice until right now.

You want the ugly truth about why we’re winning that nobody wants to acknowledge?

Games against First Place Teams – 0
Games against 2nd Place Teams – 3
Games against Last Place Teams – 7
Games against 2nd-last Place Teams – 8
Games against Teams above .500 – 6
Games against Teams under .500 – 13

And, we’re 2 games over .500 against that schedule. You’ll have to excuse me if I’m not prepared to start singing the praises of Small Ball quite yet. The truth is that this team better start scoring some goddamn runs, or they’re going to get buried when they start running up against teams that can both hit and pitch. I guess we’ll see this week.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 4, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

First off, welcome

I havent been on here lately so you are new to me,

second off, original name, I like the numbers, the help separate you from the 2524 other BLees on this site.

Now, small ball in my definition is relying on pitching and defense, while using stolen bases, sacrifice bunts, and sac flies to get runs in.

As for the home run. Read. Pick up a history book, and read. The home run came after the Ruthian era, balls were made to go further, stadiums were made smaller, and players got bigger. It wasnt always an integral part of the game, and the AL (or as I say, the Arena Football League of baseball) created the DH for more offense.

(the single best thing you can do in any plate appearance) ok, yeah in one single plate appearance yeah, but I mean you are kind of skewing what I was trying to say. Phillips goes up swinging for the goddamn fences and sucks. I think players try too hard to hit home runs and then they sacrifice the rest of their game for the long ball. You know what is more important that 40 HR in a season? 140 RBI.

So I mean, I guess, if I was trying to prove a point, it would be that I would take a bases clearing single over a strikeout because some asshole wanted to hit a grand slam, or I would take an RBI single over a solo shot, because you get the same amount of runs, and it only takes a single to get another one.

So yeah, I `ll take a home run, but I think it is overrated, so did Ty Cobb, or Wade Boggs, or Honus Wagner, Joe Tinker, Tris Speaker, Pete Rose, Nap Lajoie, or any other baseball player before Babe

Yeah I agree, we need to score some runs or we are screwed, and I already said that.

by Reynard on May 4, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the problem
I think players try too hard to hit home runs and then they sacrifice the rest of their game for the long ball.

This is a generally held belief that is completely unfair to the players. It is the exceptionally rare player (except in pre-humidor Coors Field) who could hit .300 with 30+ HRs. To think that Adam Dunn could go from being a 40/.250 hitter to a 30/.280 hitter is completely unfair to him. He has two great abilities – being able to tell a ball from a strike, and hitting the ball far. If he could also put the ball in play every time he swung, he’d be Albert Pujols, or Barry Bonds. That type of hitter is very, very special.

Let’s turn the arguement around – would anyone have asked Boggs sacrifice 20 points of BA to hit more HRs? Of course not – his value was in getting on base (which he did at a tremendous pace (.415 for his career!)), and everyone assumed that he just couldn’t be a HR hitter. So why do we ask HR hitters to increase their BA?

As for guys like Cobb and Wagner, you literally couldn’t hit the ball hard enough to get to 20 HRs, let alone 40. There’s a reason it was called the “Deadball Era”. The career HR record before Ruth was 138; the seasonal record was 27 (it was the record for 34 years, or longer than either Ruth’s 60 or Maris’ 61), and in only 5 different season did anyone hit 20+.

You know what is more important that 40 HR in a season? 140 RBI.

Except that to get 140 RBI, you need runners on base ahead of you, which you have zero control over. But, yea, 140 RBI (which has been accomplished 111 times in MLB history) is a bigger deal than 40 HRs (295 times).

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

140 RBI

As you can tell, that statement got me worked up.

I looked at every season where a player had 140+ RBI (again, 111 so far).

Seasons of 140+ RBI in the Deadball Era: 6.
Seasons of 140+ RBI and 40+ HR: 68

Babe Ruth had 7 seasons with 140+ RBI; the fewest HR he hit in any of them was 46. Lou Gehrig had 8 seasons of 140+ RBI; he hit 40+ HR in 5, 27 (in a year he also hit .374 with 47 2B), 34 (.349, 42 2B), and 37 (.351, 37 2B). Ted Williams, the greatest hitter ever, only did it twice, and needed 43 HR one year. Willie Mays only did it once, thanks to 49 HR. ARod, in the greatest offensive era ever, has only done it twice, and needed 54 and 57 HRs. Griffey, Jr. has 3 such seasons, all with 49+ HRs.

Hank Aaron never drove in 140 in a season. Neither did Mickey Mantle. Nor Barry Bonds, Frank Robinson, or Stan Musial. Not any of “Ty Cobb, or Wade Boggs, or Honus Wagner, Joe Tinker, Tris Speaker, Pete Rose, Nap Lajoie”.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

So basically

You are saying, that you agree 140 RBI is more important that 40HR?

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's 100 more runs

It’s also 100 more dependent on the rest of the team doing their job and getting on base for you. He’s also saying that players that hit 40 home runs are more likely to have 140 RBI than those players that do not hit 40 HR. That the two numbers are fairly closely linked. Do you understand that RBI says more about opportunity than it does the ability of an individual player?

by Brendanukkah on May 5, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

It’s not more important. It’s just much, much more rare. And the list of guys you mentioned as your ideal (Ty Cobb, or Wade Boggs, or Honus Wagner, Joe Tinker, Tris Speaker, Pete Rose, Nap Lajoie) never did it once, so maybe even you don’t think it’s that important.

It also takes a whole lot of luck (3 of the top 5 hitters in the history of the game combined to knock in 140 in a season twice). If you’re waiting for that 140 RBI guy, good luck.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

REALLY?

140 wouldnt be more important than 40 Home Runs?

wow, thats kind of funny, it may be rare, (because it was just me using an example and throwing out a number) but Im pretty sure it is more important to drive in more runs than balls out of the park, I dont know, maybe thats just me, maybe thats because I like wins on the board instead of HR on the back of Dunn`s baseball card.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's just you

Anyone who knows what they’re watching knows that RBI are entirely dependent on the baserunners when a hitter’s at bat, something the hitter has zero control over.

The year Barry Bonds hit 73 HRs, he “only” drove in 137 runs. Please explain to me, since you seem to know the answer, how he failed that season.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Please explain to me, since you seem to know the answer, how he failed that season."

What makes you think this? Did I say 140 or bust? Or did I say a 40hr season is a failure?

Yeah, yeah I never said anything of that nature. Are you a politician? You sure do change words like you are…not like a skilled or high up politician, but maybe a a city council member in Kings

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's see if I can explain this in small words

That way, maybe you’ll understand.

You said:

You know what is more important that 40 HR in a season? 140 RBI.

You also said:
I never said I dont like home runs, for the 20th time on this post, I said I think they are overrated.

The ability to hit the ball is the one thing a batter has control over; on the other hand, driving in other runners is nearly completely out of the control of the batter unless he hits a HR. In other words, you’re espousing the 2nd most overrated, irrelivent stat in baseball (pitcher wins would be tops), and saying it’s more important than something that really is a pretty important ability for a hitter.

No, HR power alone does not make someone a good hitter (which I don’t think anyone has ever said). Someone like Dunn is a good hitter because he gets on base and hits for power; someone like Bonds or Pujols is a great hitter because he hits for average, gets on base, and hits for power. Hitting 40+ HRs shows a real ability; driving in 140 runs shows some combination of ability and luck, and I’d rather bank on superior ability than superior luck.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I understand what you are saying about runners being on in front

BUT, you arent taking into account BA with RISP or extra base hits with men on the bags.

SO, that doesnt mean that you can just deem RBI the “second most overrated [irrelevant] stat in baseball” and hold the HR over it.

I mean once again at the end of the day it is a team sport, but not to someone who focuses on the stats more than the game itself.

To that person Walter Johnson is the best pitcher of all time (which is arguable) instead of say someone like Bob Gibson.

I just find it hilarious that RBI is ranked below HR for you, while you say Wins for a pitcher is the most irrelevant stat, you wont find one major league baseball player that will agree with either one of those statements

Your logic kind of makes it seem like the Reds have won the pennant 8 out of the last 10 years, if you of course discount wins for the pitchers and realize that RBI`s are irrelevant.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

sabarmatricans have done studies

and found that BA with RISP isn’t that valuable of a stat, and even more so there have been hitters who excelled in that stat in one season, and absolutely sucked the next, hall of famers no less.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok proving my point again

how can you logically say that BA with runners in scoring position isnt that valuable of a stat? What mathematical evidence could possibly exist that would discredit that stat?

It isnt logical, but somehow a sabr came up with it. All of the coaches yelling in my ears, or the ears of every baseball player their entire lives to “make contact to drive in the runner on 2nd” is completely wrong, because some guy with a calculator and a stat sheet than has never played baseball before said it was after spending time breaking down numbers long enough to have some mathematical evidence to say so. But once again, I am sure some sabrmatricans would disagree with that, with different numbers, because you can contort numbers different ways

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps Justin was speaking to the notion of a "clutch player"

Where it’s been pretty well demonstrated that over the course of a season or career, hitters have batting averages with runners in scoring position that are right in line with their overall batting averages.

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

but the notion of a "clutch player" was not raised

RISP and BA is only being used as a way to find “relevance” in an otherwise “irrelevant” stat that is the RBI

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

RBI would only be relevant in relation to a team, not to an individual player

And then it would only be relevant as a reflection of runs scored by the team, which obviously is important. It doesn’t matter who drove in the runs, only that they were scored at all.

Likewise, wins are important relative to a team, not to a player. The pitcher is an important part of the team, but to be the only player that is given credit for a team’s win or loss? Preposterous. Bronson Arroyo has a 4.81 ERA, which is not particularly good, yet has the best W-L record of the rotation at 4-1.

Runs scored and wins are fine to think about in a larger sense, but when it comes to individual players, they are misleading. There are other numbers available that give a much better indication of how an individual player contributed to the success of the team.

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now do you understand the point of this entire post?

Taking focus to one player, and away from the team happens so much with sabermetrics that is takes away from the game.

When we are getting into debates on Wins and RBI being “irrelevant” I feel like my point is only being proven, or breaking down what is important to the team or a player. It is a team sport, a ring is more important than an MVP.

Sure thats an individual acheivement but THE GAME, baseball is a team sport, RBI are the goal of the game. So I would say it is the most important stat.

Yeah Bronson`s ERA is high, but he is 4-1, he isnt doing anything to lose the game, and I guarentee Harang punches more things and wakes up at night a lot more with a better ERA and worse record, while Bronson sleeps like a baby at night, if he isnt up playing shitty music

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but

which is more sustainable? Remember when the Reds got Eric Milton, who just knew how to win games.

And in your argument about Harang V Arroyo, wouldn’t the flip side to your argument be that Harang is doing things to lose games?

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean that isnt really a point I want to try to really support

but I mean yeah technically, giving up two runs is a way to lose games, but I mean technically it is a way to win games too

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

God

Eric Milton not only did not know how to win games, but he didnt know how to not make me want to stab him

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

Which is why the “win” is a poor indicator of a pitcher’s performance.

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

not really

Its about outpreforming the other pitcher and winning the game. But once again, Im looking at these things from a team perspective, not individual numbers, so for the benefit of the team, the W is an important stat for the pitcher, at least in comparison to the total number of L in a season.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ramon Ortiz won 16 games in 2003

with an ERA over 5. He was so fucking awesome.

The two starting pitchers pitch independently of each other. Yeah I mean it can have a small effect, like team A’s starting pitcher is throwing a shutout and team B pitcher has given up 2 runs, causing team B’s manager to pinch hit for the starter in the bottom of the 6th. But other than that they are pretty independent of each other.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

not really

Thats why people talk up “pitching duels” when it is basically going to come down to who has the most dominant performance.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

what?

but they are still pitching independently of each other. If it turns into a 1-0 shutout the losing pitcher didn’t lose because of weakness.

You know what never mind Chris carpenter sucked that night.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

But

He lost because he didnt pitch as well as the other pitcher

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or his team's offense wasn't as good as the other team's offense

There’s not a direct correlation between a pitcher’s performance and the outcome of the game. Offense is involved. Defense is involved. Luck is involved. Giving one player credit for the win or loss is pretty antithetical to this whole notion of “team” that you’ve been espousing, wouldn’t you say?

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

nope

“There’s not a direct correlation between a pitcher’s performance and the outcome of the game”

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, because your point is poorly articulated and combatively asserted

If you mean that you like to see your team score runs and win games, …yay? Mostly what I gather your point to be is that Adam Dunn hits a lot of home runs but the teams he is on tend not to win very much. In your eyes, this makes Dunn a bad player. In other people’s eyes, he’s a good player that is always on teams with lots of shitty players. The important point is – it’s not the Reds problem any more.

Your wild eyed attacks on sabermetrics seem borne of willful ignorance, and that’s what’s grating to most folks around here.

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont like Dunn

because of his bad arm and defense, and inability to keep his k`s down for someone who was supposed to be our premier player.

More or less Im not a big fan of a lot of sabermetrics. I am not discrediting stats by anymeans, walk to k ratios, BA, OB%, RBI, HR, SB, E, fielding , 2B, 3B, runs, SLG

Wins, k`s, losses, ERA, holds, saves, I think these are all major parts of the game and how to tell whether a player is good or bad, and how a team would fare, but I think a lot of the in depth stats that comes after and combine a lot of these things are just a little over the top

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

wins losses and holds

are easily the three of the worst stats in baseball

Hodl on gusy, I need to sue the batheroom....

by sharks on May 7, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

So that's it

Dunn’s bad because he has no wins, holds, or saves. Got it.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 8, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Baseball is different

Football, basketball, hockey – those are team sports that constantly rely on other members of your team. Your individual play is completely reliant on the others on the field/court.

Baseball is completely different, though. The pitcher is trying to get the hitter out, while the hitter is trying to get on base; the fielder is trying to catch the ball, then throw out the batter or baserunner. Baseball is a collection of events between individuals.

Because of the individualness of the stats, we can say with alot of confidence that a stat is important or unimportant, indicative of performance or not. We can see that RBI are based on too many factors out of the control of the hitter to be a meaningful stat, or that BA with RISP is useless as you (and most) use it, because it generally is no different for a player than in other situations.

Yeah Bronson`s ERA is high, but he is 4-1, he isnt doing anything to lose the game,

Yes, he is. He’s allowing 5 runs/game, when his team can only score 3.9 runs/game; in fact, he’s allowed more ER this year than any other That will catch up with his record eventually.

I guarentee Harang punches more things and wakes up at night a lot more with a better ERA and worse record,

If he’s punching anything, it should be his teammates. His two wins are a complete game shutout and another where he allowed 1 run in 7 innings; he lost one game where he allowed 2 ER in 7 IP, and got no decision (team loss) in another 2ER/7IP effort.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 7, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look at it this way

There have been 14 unassisted triple plays in MLB history, and 256 no-hitters; obviously, UTPs are a much bigger deal. However, teams are 6-8 when turning a UTP, but 250-6 when throwing a no-hitter. Which is more important?

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 6, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

more new education for Sid

your argument isnt valid, because you are using weak comparisons. This is called the fundamentals of logic.

When you compare triple plays, which only acount for three outs in one inning to no hitters, which account for all three outs for all nine innings and try to use that comparison to mirror the hr/rbi debate…….geesh.

I dont even understand what point your trying to make because yo uare presenting it so poorly

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok.
The home run came after the Ruthian era, balls were made to go further, stadiums were made smaller, and players got bigger. It wasnt always an integral part of the game,

Other things that weren’t always “integral”:

  • Gloves (fielding, not hitting)
  • Umpires
  • Blacks
  • Fences
  • Balls that hadn’t been marred by the pitcher
  • Games that players didn’t have a betting interest in

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

isnt the game so much more boring now

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess you're right

The game would be much more exciting if the fielders didn’t have gloves. And there were no darkies running around the field.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 5, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus

they should give the infielders bats. It’s not fair that a guy can slide in hard to second with his spikes up high, and the 2B can do anything about it.

Looky here, Cobb… Let’s see how brave you are when Nap is waiting for you with a Louisville Slugger!

by bbjones on May 6, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reynard, if that is in fact your real name.....

Sidnancy stole a lot of what I had to say on your anti-HR diatribe, and your comparison of the current game to the (completely different) deadball game.

So, really, I have one question (in many parts) left. Why are you conflating pitching and defense, two things that are unquestionably good, with an offensive philosophy that has been shown to be counterproductive to run scoring? Why is it necessary that a team that can pitch and play defense uses the sac fly, stolen base, sac bunt route? What’s wrong with employing a team that can pitch, play defense, get on base, and hit the shit out of the ball like, say, last year’s Phillies? Or last year’s Rays? Or the 2007 Red Sox? Or the ’07 Rockies?

It seems to me that the “pitching-defense-manufacture-runs” connection is something that’s been created over the past few years to allow GM’s of bad teams to explain how they’re going to compete. Pitchers are far more likely to come out of nowhere to succeed than are hitters (See: Lee, Cliff), and talented young pitchers more often languish for a few years before “putting it together” than their hitting counterparts, so any team with some pitching talent can try to sell the fact that they’re counting on the pitching coming together this year. Defense is extremely difficult to quantify, and the quality of defense is often hard to recognize even if it’s a guy you see every day (See: Derek Jeter, 3 Gold Gloves). Hitters are pretty easy to measure and stay relatively consistent year-to-year. Therefore, a team with a bad offense will tell their fans that they’re going to rely on Pitching (because we have 3 guys who used to be big-time prospects and youneverknow), Defense (because nobody will be able to tell me definitively that I’m wrong), and Manufacturing Runs (because our offense blows and everybody knows it).

I want a team that does everything well, and doesn’t have to rely on 1920s strategy to eke out wins when they get a good pitching performance, and has absolutely no shot when they don’t. the “pitching-defense-manufacture-runs” lobby often insists that teams that play “Small Ball” can “beat you in a variety of ways.” No, they can’t. They can beat you in one way: get a good pitching performance, and cobble together enough singles and steals to score one more run than they allow. Teams like the ones I described above can beat you in a variety of ways; they can win 1-0 on a Complete Game Shutout, and they can win 9-8 on a 9th inning Grand Slam.

But at least we can both agree that this team is not going to maintain its current level of success unless they start scoring more runs. We’re getting somewhere.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 5, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only person that's debating anything is you

And you’re not even doing that. You’re being thickheaded when presented with arguments, then trying to pass it off as sarcasm or humor. Stop doing that.

by Brendanukkah on May 5, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Awesome.

Then debate. Provide some evidence that Home Runs are overrated beyond “hey, look at the guys that played 80 years ago. They didn’t hit home runs. So, obviously, since the game is exactly the same as it was 80 years ago, home runs are overrated.” Answer my question(s) about what the hell pitching and defense have to do with the type of offense you extol. Hell, maybe do a little research into the viewpoints of others so that instead of saying things like “You are hitting me with so much knowledge. But the rambling tone of it all sort of has my eyes dried out and red, jaw dropped with drool dripping out of the side and,” you could actually add something substantive to the debate that you “sparked.”

Or, you know what, just do this one thing. Just one, that’s all. Please explain to me how you can write a long rambling post extolling the virtues of our offensive philosophy, and in the next breath say that we need to start scoring more runs to make any noise in the Central. Once you can reconcile that wonderful piece of cognitive dissonance, maybe you’ll stop drooling out the side of your mouth.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 5, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Douchey

I said I agree with the numbers and am kind of happy thus far that numbers arent really explaining our team. You on the other hand are playing devils advocate, because I and you know we cant keep winning without runs.

YES PITCHING DEFENSE AND RUNS IN BETTER THAN JUST PITCHING AND DEFENSE

nowhere did I ever argue that home runs or runs themselves are not valuable

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or.....

You can call me “Douchey,” repeat yourself, and capitalize lots of words. That works, too.

By saying that “the stats aren’t explaining this team,” you’re obviously implying that you believe that there is something at work beyond dumb luck or playing shitty teams that is allowing the Reds to outperform their run differential. If that’s the case, why do they need to score more runs? Shouldn’t that magical juju just continue?

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 5, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

The rational part of his brain

has already realized he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about, or at least can’t argue for it in an effective manner.

So now he’s just falling back on attitude and hoping we think he’s a badass for all the cool, I’m-above-it-all posturing.

Weak

Will you stop it with the vegetables

by Man Mountain on May 5, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yes, there is

he’s just caught out and acting like most teenagers/young adults act when they’re trying to be subversive or contrarian.

Will you stop it with the vegetables

by Man Mountain on May 6, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on May 6, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

and the name man mountain

immediately gives you the power and authority to decide who is what age and why in their young psyche this is so.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That

and the fact that my job for the past six ears requires me to read 18-22 year-olds trying to construct written arguments about new ideas or ideas that they understand only in part.

Some of them approach this with a humility and inquisitiveness that leads to greater wisdom. Others just try to muddy the waters through willful misunderstanding and misrepresentation of others’ (and even their own) arguments. Usually because they are either incapable of reading for meaning or simply too lazy to. To often students tend to conflate being provocative with “sparking debate”

But mostly the name.

Will you stop it with the vegetables

by Man Mountain on May 6, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i bet youre real tall

with a name like that, i bet you’d have to be at least 1000 feet tall.

go look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 6, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Figures

You made Reynard look like a Grade-A moron.

by Brendanukkah on May 6, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

you know

reynard gives me a taste of what times were like when Michael roamed these boards. But to me Michael is just a section on the wiki.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh beloved Justin

Nothing to add but clickish putdowns and side choosing. To think what could have been

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't have a problem with you because you have a different oppinion

hell last night I disagreed with a number of people on this board and thought Volquez should have had the chance to finish the game. You just get real nasty about it.

I used to see baseball the way you did, but after joining RR my views on baseball evolved.

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we just Godwin's Law this shit and be done with it?

If someone else won’t, I will.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on May 6, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I`m done

You know things are getting worn out when the text box gets this skinny and to the right

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah good Sandwhich U,,,

The might Earls have a great Women’s soccer squad..(The Lady Earls, which can be rather confusing and somewhat transgendered).

But they don’t get to play on an even playing field

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 6, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow. Such an evisceration.

You should perhaps go to medical school and become a G.I. specialist.

rec’d.

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on May 6, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh

the stereotypical smug democrat looking down on another persons lesser thought process card.

Good one, and you read Ulysses, you scholar you!

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

well i mean

she could have replaced Limbaugh with Ed Schultz but nobody has ever heard of him, because he is on MSNBC and liberal talk radio…

Bloop

by justin007000 on May 6, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

limbaugh is just the most listened to example

by Daedalus on May 6, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

People argue on here for the sake of arguing

I have recognized that we cant continue to win without more run support because we simply arent a good enough team to pull it off, and everyone would agree with me on this. Early in the post, one of the main arguments is that it would be unlikely for it to happen, since most teams we have played dont have the best rcords.

 but instead of simply agreeing on something, there is this awkward obsession with playing devils advocate to try to get me to contradict myself….which I wont do. I can say I enjoy this has happened and aknowledge I dont want it to continue (kind of like heroin usage)

Point of post, I enjoy seeing things not be predicted by numbers, it sort of makes me think my “is what it is” attitude is justified.

I think home runs are overrated, look how good Votto is doing right now with only 3 home runs, but he has way more RBI.

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh fro Christ's sake on a fucking hubcap...

Buuuloow me…………..

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 5, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean Rey, not MM

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 5, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

you used the reply button correctly

Therefore, everyone knows who you were replying to.

I get the feeling that you are having trouble following the threaded discussion here. If you can’t figure out which post a comment is replying to, click “up.” It will take you to the “parent” post.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 6, 2009 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm too fucking old to understand all this newfangedled technology

HMMMMM maybe I have more in common with Reynard that I previously considered..

Nah

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 6, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ty Cobb, or , or Honus Wagner, Joe Tinker, Tris Speaker, , Nap Lajoie, and Babe Ruth are all dead

They played in the dead ball era and then the game evolved and expanded….its been evolving in a subtle and really interesting way for over 170 years…so don’t be a dead beat…we are living in the information age…the age of instantaneous communication and the age of THE NERD. So get over it guy…and have a little fun before you die.

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 4, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions  

But but but....

Technically Ruth Played in the Deadball era and The Ruthian era, he revolutionized the game, I never said it was a bad thing, Im just saying the home run is overrated.

I LIKE HOME RUNS, I THINK THEY ARE OVERRATED
I CHEER WHEN A REDS PLAYER HITS A HOME RUN
I CHEER JUST AS HARD WHEN IT IS AN RBI SINGLE
I LIKE TO WATCH CHEERS

“we are living in the information age…the age of instantaneous communication and the age of THE NERD”

This isnt true, if it was, an ex pot smoker that gets BJs in the Oval Office wouldnt be president, followed by a drunk ignorant frat guy, followed by a suave mixed dude who defines cool.

as for fun before I die, I am pretty sure its the fun that will kill me, if I dont kill myself first on acid

by Reynard on May 5, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 5, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on May 6, 2009 9:07 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This actually made me LOL

I miss the old days of the internet when men were men, hot girls were middle aged men, and hot underage girls were FBI agents.....

by jch24 on May 6, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand all of the backlash

I really enjoyed this post. Keep up the good work, my bodily patron.

by Reynard's Ass on May 6, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

thank you ass

your the closest thing I have to family in here

by Reynard on May 6, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

makes more sense than the original

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 6, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on May 6, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like this option but, I think the original Japanese was more poetic

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 6, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fame had a clock and every week she would wind it WITH GREAT CARE. A cronopio passed by to see it and started to laugh, he went home and invented a clock-artichoke or olive, that in one form or other can and should be said.

The cronopio’s clock artichoke is an artichoke from the large species, held by its stem in a hole in the wall. The countless leaves of the artichoke mark the present hour and furthermore all of the hours, in the fashion that the cronopio only has to remove a leaf to know the time. As he removes the leaves from left to right, the leaf always gives the correct time, and each day the cronopio begins to remove a new layer of leaves. Arriving at the heart, time can no longer be measured, and in the infinite rose violet of the center the cronopio finds great contentedness, then eating it with oil, vinegar and salt, and puts another clock in the hole.

-Cortázar, Julio; Historias de cronopios y de famas, Buenos Aires, Sudamericana, 1994

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 6, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

brilliant

man, I love latin american fiction. Cortazar is awesome; Borges is more underrated than RBIs.

Really, I mean it. About Borges, not about the RBIs. Thanks, Verka, for the slice of beauty. It has actually managed to redeem this entire thread.

by bbjones on May 6, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

After reading most this post and most comments I have come to the following conclusion:

Reynard is by far my favorite poster, for the following reasons:

1. You bring a callused hand to the circle jerk that is Red Reporter.

2. You spend quite alot of time replying to almost everyone who comments on your post, never backing down while being quite funny.

by Dave from Louisville on May 6, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I'll go along with the never backing down part.

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 6, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's funny

Just not the way he thinks he is.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 6, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

AS usual you are the most incisive of all RRs

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 7, 2009 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

By the Way I need a photograph of Ash standing with one hand on her hip and the other pointing at the camera

While she’s saying “You, yes I mean you, asshole…”

there have so many times I could have used this image to the glory of red Reporters everywhere If anyone has one please email it to me, no questions asked.

I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....

by Madville on May 7, 2009 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

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