Edinson invented the record specifically to play Rosie his latest Daynce Mix
by Slyde on Apr 29, 2009 10:20 PM EDT
in Game Threads
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PrintThe Joe Nuxhall Memorial Honorary Star of the Game
Edinson Volquez - 8 IP, H, BB, 6 K, 0 R, 106 pitches. This is close to the best start we've ever seen from Volquez. It's the first time he's ever completed 8 innings in a start. The closest he came was last September against the Astros when he pitched 7.1 innings
Key Plays
- Not a whole lot from the Astros on offense. They had 3 base runners all night, and only Miguel Tejada in the first inning touched 2nd base. That's dominance right there.
- The Reds got on the board in the 5th after Laynce Nix hit a triple and was singled in by Adam Rosales.
- Joey Votto led off the sixth with a lazy fly ball to left-center field. Carlos Lee and Michael Bourn suddenly regretted skipping the communication seminar that the Astros put on during Spring Training as they ran into each other, causing Lee to drop the ball with Votto ending up on second base. Nix continued the party with a singled that scored Votto, putting the Reds up 2-0.
- The Reds loaded up the bases with a Jay Bruce single and walks to Ramon Hernandez and Laynce Nix. Rosales got the job done with a fly ball to right field, scoring Bruce and tacking on the final run of the game.
- Francisco Cordero was perfect in the ninth inning, helped out by a strong defensive play at third base by Rosales.
Other Notes
- Edinson Volquez was outstanding. There really is nothing more to say. He is the pitcher we've been waiting for so far this season.
- Rosales had a good game, but we shouldn't overlook the quality performance by Laynce Nix. His 2 hits in 3 ABs with a triple, RBI single, and a walk were critical for the Reds tonight. I'm a Chris Dickerson fan, but I want to see Laynce Nix out there every game against righties until he cools off a bit.
- Francisco Cordero came in and slammed the door shut. I guess it's a lot easier to pitch with a 3-run lead than in a tie ballgame. Must be the whole save situation thing.
- The Reds finish the month of April (off day on Thursday) with an 11-10 record. It's not a dream month, but 5 more months like that and they've got a pretty good season. Still gonna need some more offense for that to happen, I believe.
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Volquez
THAT is what im talkin’ ’bout!
Consider the Eskimos.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Apr 29, 2009 10:40 PM EDT reply actions
i was pretty pleased with Dusty for removing Volquez
i was a little concerned that Dusty was going to leave Volquez in there, so Volquez could turn 8 shutout innings into 8.1 innings of 2 run ball, and a no decision.
Too bad I didn’t take advantage of dollar tickets, tonight would have been a nice night at the ole ball yard.
Bloop
Broo Tweet
BTW, Volquez wanted no part of pitching the 9th inning tonight
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
yeah i just read that
why is it every time I try to say something positive about Dusty, something like this happens?
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 29, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wowza...
Now THAT is something I could get used to!
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
Great game for Voltron
And yeah, I think Laynce Nix has earned more playing time. He’s hitting better than Dickerson, and his glove is better, too (at least so far). I don’t want to see him in CF, but he’s fine in LF.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I doubt that Dusty would ever start him against a LHP
But I guess I’m okay with a Hairston/Nix platoon in left. Beats Hairston/Dickerson.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
for now
I still think that Dickerson is a better long-term player than Nix.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I don't know.
I’m starting to believe that Nix’s problems really were at least partly due to that injury. The story I’ve heard is that everyone saw huge potential in him until he was injured. Dickerson, on the other hand, has always been seen as a AAAA player, hasn’t he?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
Isn't that the story with a lot of players, though?
Hairston, Patterson, even Keppinger to some extent? I just don’t know that being injured young so that it interferes with your playing ability to that degree is necessarily a plus factor.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
I thought Hairston was injured more recently, in his late 20s...
But yeah, I think you’re right to a certain extent. It just seems possible that Nix could have worked hard enough to get back to a decent level. Of course maybe I’m just fishing for a reason to believe that Nix can keep performing at a decent level, but when Dickerson did the same last year it was just a fluke.
And for everything that Nix has done this season, he’s still just got an OPS+ of 106. In only 27 PAs, of course…
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
Good point to not forget that Nix had a strong outing too
As recently as yesterday I was whining about him being a retread etc..boy did he kick my booty
Adam ‘Lewis’ 
Rosales..
Everything I hoped for and more. Not only does he hit and field and dance the twist in the batter’s box but he is a bonafied Nerdaroosky
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
Wait 'til you see him in his glasses
The you’ll believe
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
It is brilliant..so like Slyde
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
off topic, but I posted that Kelch quote I wrote about yesterday on that topic thread
You can give it a glance
"5 more months like that and they've got a pretty good season."
i agree. 55-50 would be a pretty neat season.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
Five more months like that
would be 66-60.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Speaking of youthful crushes...
Here’s what’s wrong with today’s elementary school kids
Metallica is soooooo 1993
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
Eyewitness report: We can build on this!
- Volquez pitched a hell of a game. I don’t know where the guy we saw tonight has been all season, but it’ll be great if this gets him back on track.
- Adam Rosales is about to become a household name in Cincinnati. Dude got a standing O every time he came up to the plate, and did everything Reds fans love. Useless shit like sprinting out to his position, sprinting to 1B on a walk, and making unnecessarily acrobatic plays on defense go a long way with Joe Reds Fan.
- Bold Prediction: As long as Rosales keeps hitting, Edwin Encarnacion has started his last game at 3B for the Reds. I know, I know, he’s only 26, and personally one of my favorite players, but this city will literally riot if Edwin replaces Rosie Red at 3B anytime soon. And with this city’s history of riots, we should probably avoid that. Something’s gonna happen with Edwin when he comes off the DL, either he’ll move to the outfield or 1B or get traded or something. There is no way Dusty will take a scrappy guy like Rosales who gives 300% on everything possible out of the lineup in favor of Edwin, as long as he’s being productive in that spot.
- That being said, he’s taking this “Pete Rosales” nickname too seriously. Ease up, Cochise, before you get hurt.
- Nix’s triple was pretty impressive, although it may have been the longest running of three bases in history.
- Highlights of the crowd: I saw three impressively amazing jerseys. In order of least amazing to most amazing: #61 Bronson Arroyo Pirates jersey (from the ASG, I think), #55 Kenny Powers Reds jersey shirt, and #6 Jeff Keppinger jersey shirt, from when he was with the Mets. Considering he was there with the Astros, it was even more impressive. I have no idea why anyone would have this shirt, but kudos either way, man.
- The announced attendance was 12,000-something. There may have been half that actually there. I bought a 5 dollar seat, and ended up sitting 15 rows up on the 1st base line. That, with the two dollars I spent on a hot dog and soda (I brought my own liquor to mix, I’m resourceful), and I spent 7 dollars at the ballpark. Two dollars to park at Newport. 9 total. Who said going to games was expensive?
- There were so few people there, some drunken idiots tried to start a wave in two different sections, and there wasn’t enough people to get it going. Most sections (especially up top) had less than 10 people in them.
- The play with Lee and Bourn in the OF was the funniest play I’ve ever seen in a major league ballgame.
- Jerry Hairston Jr. needs a day off. I think he’ll get it Friday with BP back and Nix hitting.
- Also, what is it with Reds fans at game really loving sac bunts? Volquez got a standing ovation after bunting the runners over in his second AB. Has Marty affected them that much?
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
by BK on Apr 30, 2009 1:17 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
That had to be...
…a relative of Jeff Keppinger wearing that shirt.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Pete Rosales
It’s the way Rosales plays the game that got him the nickname, not the other way around. This kid has hustled on every play at every level. It’s a pleasure to see—and I hope to see a lot more.
See, that's what I don't get
It’s completely inexplicable to me that he gets cheered for sprinting out to his position and sprinting to first on a walk, two things that have no outcome on the result of the game. The fact that in this city, you’re judged on the things that don’t matter over the contributions you make to winning the game shows me why this team hasn’t had a winning season this decade.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
by BK on Apr 30, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
agree'd
love to see a guy play hard, but Ryan Freel played hard too
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
yep
I prefer Joey Votto’s style of hustle. Dude plays hard all of the time, even if he’s not sprinting to first base on a walk.
I’m not criticizing Rosales for sprinting to first, just that it matters more if you do it when something is actually happening in the game. He doesn’t get bonus points for doing it on a walk.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
maybe
What other type of players have been around to cheer for the last decade? The Freels of this team have been the least of our problems.
by Born Too Loose on Apr 30, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I sort of disagree
Giving too much money and depending on a player like Freel is not the least of the Reds problems. It’s pretty much symptomatic of the mistakes the Reds have made the past 8 years in terms of personnel.
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Apr 30, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree'd
But the bigger issue to me is that the reason we’ve had to give too much money and rely on a Freel type is that until the last year or two, there has been no upcoming home-grown talent to help the team.
You can’t rely on buying expensive free agents unless you are the Yankees, so you better have a great farm system. In the past we’ve not had Cuetos and Vottos coming up and kicking ass for league minimum, so we’ve paid 8 million for Eric Milton and 4 million for Ryan Freel because we couldn’t afford real free agents
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
that's a good point
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Apr 30, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
god, I hope he doesn't let what a bunch of fans think about
Scrappy get in the way of putting a 500 slugging percentage back in a punchless line-up
If EdE doesn't go on the DL...
.. the Reds maybe win 1-0. There is no assurances that Rosales keeps hitting at this level, but until he stops, there is no way EdE gets back. With all the 3B prospects in the system, I think that page has turned.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
So, after 3 weeks, the guy who led the team in home runs last season is suddenly worthless?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
The sad thing is, in the minds of most Reds fans, that's exactly the case.
I really want to see Edwin get another shot when he inevitably goes to Louisville on rehab and starts raking like he did in 2007 when this happened, but I’m just not sure he’s going to get that chance this time.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
by BK on Apr 30, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't see it that way
I see Dusty as being in Edwin’s corner. He did keep him the lineup for 3 weeks straight despite his total shit performance at the plate. I think Dusty is very much a “my starter is my starter” kind of guy.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Wasn't Edwin also on the team last year
When Dusty proclaimed that he would win if he had his guys?
by Brendanukkah on Apr 30, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
well
then neither are BP, Votto, and Gonzalez, plus the entire pitching staff except for Owings.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Honestly...
I can’t tell WTF Dusty is thinking, especially on this.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
Dusty doesn't know what Dusty is thinking..
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
Agree,
Unless Rosales is OPSing .950 or something, I’d bet EdE is inserted back into the starting lineup the day he gets back. Fans and media will go crazy, but Dusty clearly doesn’t worry about them.
That said, I’m guessing it’s at least a month or more ’til EdE is ready to play
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Dusty's been told 3 weeks
so if it’s the Reds’ doctors telling him that, it’s probably more like 2 months.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
3 weeks til he can play, at the soonest,
plus a long-ish rehab assignment.
My guess is mid-June, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s after the all-star break
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
In all likelihood...
by that point Rosales has been figured out by MLB pitching and is hitting about as well as EdE was before he went on the DL.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
Doubt it
He won’t be hitting .350, but did you see EdE the last month? His OPS was .476
Don’t get me wrong, I’m hoping he can come back and do well and shut people up, but Rosales should be a decent replacement in the meantime.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I don't think he'll be that bad
but I’m guessing he’s more likely to be a .260/.330/.400 type hitter at best, which is very useful for a utility player, but not really an everyday 3B.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Sure, I exaggerated...
but yeah, I think he’s likely to cool off to utility level.
That said, if he rakes for a few weeks until he’s figured out, at which point EdE is back, that would be pretty nice.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
my question is
how much of the fanlove for Rosie is about his hustle, and how much is due to the fact that he replacing EdE? i dont have the pulse of Joe Reds Fan, but my guess is that EdE is public enemy number one on this team. and Rosie just happens to be his exact personality opposite.
Consider the Eskimos.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Apr 30, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
I think it’s both, which is why one concern would obviously be that Rosales comes back down to Earth before EdE comes back and people lobby for not starting one of our better hitters (when not injured) in favor of the scrappy kid who sprints to first on a walk.
I just want him to keep hitting (and for EdE to recover nicely) so that it’s actually a tough choice, and not one where there’s a clearly inferior option.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
Both.
If there’s two things about Joe Reds Fan I’ve learned from going to watch EdE on Saturday and Rosales last night, it’s that JRF hated Edwin and loves Rosales. I definitely heard someone say “well shit, Encarcnacoac… ahh however the hell you say it wouldn’t have got that one” on the first ball that Rosales fielded, even though it was pretty routine and Edwin probably would have had it. To JRF, Edwin is the new Adam Dunn (thanks Marty!) and Rosales is the second coming of Jesus.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
exactly dead on balls accurate
like fucking heard this old man just going on about how much he hates Encarncaion, and hated Dunn, and hated Griffey, but loves to watch guys hustle, and that Dunn, Griffey, and Encarnacion only want to make money, they don’t want to win.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Neither?
I haven’t been in town the last few years to really have my finger on the pulse of J.Q. Redfan, but last night it seemed to me that people weren’t idiotically looking for “hustle.” It was just easy to cheer because it seemed like Rosales wanted to cheer too. He was pumped.
You could tell he was just excited to play baseball. HE was excited about getting a walk; HE was excited about a sac fly. I couldn’t help but feel that too. Running to 1B on a walk isn’t necessarily B.S. teeball hustle.
And – having someone who just loves getting on base might be contagious.
by Born Too Loose on Apr 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree here
Taking all statistical analysis out of it, it is more fun for someone to watch Adam Rosales than it is to watch EdE, based solely on their visible attitude and approach.
Is it right that most fans take things at face value and dont look deeper into the player’s contributions to the team? No, c’mon. Ultimately, we are talking about entertainment here. Some people just take this more seriously than others
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
Exactly
If you’re into Lovable Losers, go back to Chicago, but I’d rather see the team I cheer for win.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
Has the EdE era
… led to much winning?
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
It hasn't, but I don't blame him for it.
Nor do I blame the scrappy players or the fans for loving scrappy players, for that matter.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
Which hasnt happened in Cincy in a long time
Regardless of the type of fans we have. Do you think if the entire city appreciated Adam Dunn for the contributions he made, we would have won any more?
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
We might have kept him...
and if we also valued other players like him over players who aren’t all that great offensively then yes, we could be winning more.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
exactly
his price came down last off season, but i doubt he would have stayed in Cincinnati for any price, because sMarty, P-Doc, et al ran him out of town.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, he's fun to watch as long as he's hitting
but what happens when the league figures him out and he’s sprinting to the dugout after grounding out to second 4 times a game? The fans will still be cheering his name and giving him a standing ovation, even though there are other players who have proven that they can get it done. If Adam Rosales wasn’t a white guy who sprinted around the field all the time, he’d be Jolbert Cabrera. And fans don’t give a shit about Jolbert Cabrera.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
by BK on Apr 30, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that isn't true
i love jolbert Cabrera, i have his poster and everything.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
The bandwagon
will be over at that point. People stuck with Ryan Freel when he was running around like an idiot because he was still a .270+ hitter with a .350 OBP. Fans turned against Sabo pretty fast in ‘96 even before the corking.
I know it’s easy to bag on the unwashed plebs, and maybe they are stupid and racist, but it’s counterproductive to try to find racism and stupidity in something like the debate over “scrappyness.”
by Born Too Loose on Apr 30, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
"The bandwagon will be over at that point"
See, that’s not what I’m convinced about. People here loved Jeff Keppinger, even when he stopped hitting (and still do, by the way), and before he got traded, there were people here saying that Freel should be the starting LF in 2009, even after a .245 season in 2007 and a shortened season in 2008 that saw him bat .298 (good looking number), but OPSed .699 (not a good looking number). If Rosales is smart, he’ll keep hustling and win the hearts of Reds fans who will support him no matter how he hits because “he’s a gamer” and “the Reds could use more players like him”.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
That is true
But at least we can rest on the fact that Dusty doesn’t necessarily buy into it.
He only played Kepp so much last year out of necessity, and Freel barely played last year, even when healthy. Dusty values a whole bunch of things that are useless to winning, but hustle doesn’t seem to be one of them.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Keppinger stopped hitting when he broke his kneecap
If i remember correctly, he was tearing it up when he was injured.
Maybe he would have cooled off last year anyway, but that is nothing we can speak definitively on
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
How come we never called him Kneepinger?
Dusty Baker said it was the first [triple play] he’d seen in person. When he was with the Dodgers, they hit into one, but he was in the bathroom.- C Trent
by The Crushinator on Apr 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
OR OR OR
KneeCappinger1!!!!!
Dusty Baker said it was the first [triple play] he’d seen in person. When he was with the Dodgers, they hit into one, but he was in the bathroom.- C Trent
by The Crushinator on Apr 30, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Double right on
They have been told he’s a problem and Rosales is the solution. These people love scrappy singles hitters (remember Morris and Casey? First basemen aren’t supposed to hit 6th!)
Fya said...
He’s in a cast. He’s hoping to be able to swing the bat in two weeks.
Sounds like that’s going to mean he’s out for a lot longer than three weeks.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
For a guy who walked 22 times last season in over 400 PA's
Not that Rosales is worthless and not that he doesn’t deserve this promotion, but let’s look at the resume and note he’s a fine utility infielder with pop. Heck, when EdE does come back, it will be nice to be able to give him a day off and to able to call on a RH pinch hitter who is not also a pitcher.
BTW, more than singles and more than the stupid running (what is this Little league), I was most impressed by the high fastball he almost yard on in his initial AB. Boure was way over in right center because the Astros figured there was no way Rosales could pull Paulino and Adam came within a few feet of inaugurating himself in an even finer fashion.
remember that time he took strike 2 down the middle and foulded off ball four with the bases loaded
that was fucking awesome. But he then hit a sack fly, which is superior to a walk.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
in a 2 run game in the 8th inning, a sac fly isn't a bad thing
There isn’t any reason to criticize the game that Rosales had last night. You may not like his style or the fact that fans have gone gaga over him, but he drove in 2 of the 3 runs last night in a game that they won. Complaining about taking strike two is incredibly nit-picky.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
i know i am being nit picky
but he is like that guy who shows up to work, and is less productive than you are, but looks like he does more work.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
At this point the only important issue is results,
One game into this specific Big League opportunity, Rosales had success at the bat and in the field. He’s goofy looking, dorky acting and pumped to the hilt. The guy is obviously having fun and is really excited.Why not enjoy and celebrate his successes and wish good things for when EdE comes as well,
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
by Madville on Apr 30, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
They both play for the good guys, after all
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
No they play for the Red's...
Neither player would have made the Cardinal’s 25 man roster….
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
It's probably a bit early to make predictions of EdE being Pipped
EdE still has 2 more weeks on the DL, plus rehab time – and hand/wrist injuries seem to linger a bit, so it make take a full set of rehab games. Who knows what state Rosales or the Reds will be in at that point. And let’s not forget, the Reds still only scored 3 runs last night, so it’s not exactly like they’ve suddenly turned into an offensive juggernaut.
What’s weird to me is that it feels very much like players up and down the line up are starting to hit better, and yet this team still can’t score runs. This is going to be a long season.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
That's why it's a *bold* prediction
But if by the time Edwin’s ready to come back into the lineup, Rosales is batting .260 or something and still has about 35 Farneys in his head, I still think Dusty’s going to find a way to get him in the lineup. I supposed if Gonzalez keeps sucking, we could see a Edwin-Rosales-BP-Votto infield for a while, with Gonzo on the DL, but my point is I can’t see Rosales not being an everyday player in Cincinnati as long as he keeps hitting, no matter how many runs they’re scoring. Even if they’re scoring 2 runs a game, Dusty won’t look at that. He’ll look at the “hustle” and “drive” and “love of the game” that Rosales shows “every time he steps on the field”, and give him a lineup spot based on that.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
by BK on Apr 30, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
That's partly because
since some other guys have come on, Votto has cooled a touch, as has Taveras.
Plus, there still isn’t anyone other that Bruce hitting homers. Team average is up to .235, but team slugging is .371(!), last in the NL
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I can think of 7.6 million reasons why EdE will be given a long leash
And BK, as a cheapskate I am in awe of your night at the ballpark.
Because I'm lazy
I got a 5 dollar seat at one of the ticket kiosks outside of the stadium, assuming the one section with the dollar seats was probably full at gametime when I got there. Since there was virtually nobody there, I probably could have got one and spent 5 bucks total, but I’m not complaining with 9 either.
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
Bourn's staredown of Lee had me cumb'ing
Ali Boombaye
by Cy Schourek on Apr 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Scary that so few fans are actually showing up at the games
Ain’t nobody got the $$$
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
so it is just an excuse to not show up when you are laid off?
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Me not being there
is strictly economic
by fourrunhomer on Apr 30, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Volquez's Game Score was 85
Harang got a 90 for his shutout against Pittsburgh. Those are two of the top five pitching performances by game score in the NL this year (Harang’s is #1).
what is that score out of?
And where can you find those scores?
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
It's an aggregate
and can range from below zero to over 100. There is no technical limit, but the base score (i.e. an average game) is around 50. You can find the scores on Baseball Reference. The explanation of how to calculate it is here.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
So based on that
a perfect game where you struck out the side every inning would yield a game score of 114.
Seems like that’s the theoretical limit, if not the realistic one.
Although the highest game score ever was in 1919 by Vern Law. His line? 18IP, 9 H, 2R, 2W, 12K for a game score of 118
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
pitchers can go under 0 can't they
i feel like in OOTP i have seen a few negative numbers, fucking Tim Pugh.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
this statement made me giddy
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Me too
I was thinking last night about the Reds needing that extra bat, but it also occurred to me that this is a pitching staff on which every starter has one game of basically seven inning shutout baseball, even the fifth starter! That is some quality pitching. Damn I hope they stay close enough for Uncle Walt to put together a McGwire/Rolen esque package (or find me a truly amazing young defensive SS)
I believe the man you're looking for
is named Paul Janish. And there’s another at AA named Zach Cozart, probably the best defensive SS in the organization.
We really need a bat for LF
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I'm for
letting Nix prove he doesn’t deserve it.
by fourrunhomer on Apr 30, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
But chances are, he doesn’t.
He is sort of a known quantity at this point, hitting 23 bombs for Triple A last year with barely any plate discipline. Still, he’s a possible power source and I’m willing to let him hit himself OUT of this line up
Possibly
but I was hoping for someone who could hit. Paul’s started out well, but I’m not sold on his hitting.
Really, what I want is Jermaine Dye only 5-6 years younger. I think that player will be available somewhere at the break and I want that player and a three year extension in my line up. Walt’s done it before. Here’s hoping he can do it again
What do people think about Cozart's hot start in AA?
Is he going to crash back down to what you would expect from a guy who OPSed .787 in low-A last year?
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
I expect that he'll come down a bit (.369 BABIP)
but a .787 OPS from a slick fielding shortstop is a good thing. If his defensive reputation is warranted (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) and he can OPS over .750, he can be the shortstop of the future as far as I’m concerned.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
But wasn't he a college player technically in his second season in low A?
I’m just wondering to what extent we can really expect that .787 to develop into major-league level.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
He was only 22 last year
Hitting in A ball, that’s not terrible. To see a 23 year old holding his own at AA, and fielding like a MOFO at SS (that’s my new band name, by the way), I’m with Slyde, I’ll definitely take it.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Volquez was a 2-3 borderline pitches
from having a dominant start against Atlanta.
Interesting that he is throwing harder this year 94.1 v. 93.6 last year on the fast ball.
It looks like the movement on his changeup and probably control of this pitch was way off.
But obviously when Edison has his control he is no-hitter stuff every time he steps on the mound.
he's allowed 2 hits in his last 15 innings pitched
that’s pretty damn good (please ignore the 11 walks though).
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
This made me laugh...
“I’m a model for for GQ (please disregard my face, though)”
(No disrespect, skipper)
"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"
by "Red" Moskau on Apr 30, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Is 93.6 the average from last year?
I wonder if his velo varied between the first and second half. Maybe he is pitching like last year.
Apparently the Astros weren't impressed with Volquez
“I didn’t think he was on the top of his game,” said Astros center fielder Michael Bourn “I think he was OK. He left some balls over the plate for us. Some people made some good swings. I didn’t make any good swings, but on a regular (day), we’ll get to him. He has good stuff, no doubt. But I’m not going to say he was at his best.”
“I didn’t think he was all that sharp,” Houston manager Cecil Cooper said. “I thought he had some life to his fastball, but we had some pitches to hit. We just didn’t swing the bat very well. You have to give him some credit, but I didn’t think it was a one-hit type of performance tonight.”
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
WOW!
They apparently didn’t get the Crash Davis-course on cliches. That’s bulletin board material
"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"
by "Red" Moskau on Apr 30, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
They’re saying: Y’all arent that good, we just really really suck
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
pretty much
though damn, I thought Volquez’s fastball was moving.
Ali Boombaye
by Cy Schourek on Apr 30, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
does that mean they think he can pitch better?
yes please!
Consider the Eskimos.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Apr 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This more has to do with the conversations above
And isn’t in reponse to anyone in particular, just more of a general thought based on what BK and Slyde were saying.
I wonder how many other teams’ fanbases are obsessed with the scrappy, “play the game the right way” type of players? As far back as I can remember there has always been a Chris Sabo, Chris Stynes, Ryan Freel, Jeff Keppinger type of guy that Cincy fans and media have jeeted themselves over. Is this really just a lasting impression that Pete Rose has made on this city?
I think several factors play into it, Peter Edward being just being one. Cincinnati being a blue-collar town, playing in the N.L., possibly the history of racism? I don’t know.
Personally, I dont care either way. Reading this site has definitely given me a different perspective on what constitutes a good ball player and has opened my eyes to the Sabre-mindset. But I still cant help but get really excited when a young guy like Rosie comes up from the farm and starts tearing it up with a huge smile on his face.
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
the question for me is:
Would the Reds love Michael Bourn, who is that sort of player, just as bad, but a bit tanner…
Ali Boombaye
by Cy Schourek on Apr 30, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont know
but I doubt it.
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
What about Brandon Phillips?
He’s pretty popular, and he’s not even the perfect model of sportsmanship, or anything.
That’s not to say race isn’t a factor – perhaps deep in the subconscious of Cincinnati, Brandon is Sambo, and Edwin is Nat.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
how did the city feel about Eric Davis?
there can’t be a player who played any harder than Davis.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
They loved him
and let’s not forget the guy just run out of town, Mr. Lazy-Ass Hates Baseball himself, Adam Dunn.
Not saying race isn’t a part of it at all (I’m pretty sure it’s a huge part with Marty) but I wouldn’t read too much into it.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Right
It’s hustle first in this city, and race just gives the fans something else to either use on your side or against you, depending on if you’re a hustler or not. To recap, a Joe Reds Fan primer:
Adam Dunn: Big lazy white guy, hates baseball
Adam Rosales: Hustles, loves and respects the game, plays the right way
Edwin Encarnacion: Doesn’t show emotion, hates the game because he was brought in from the DR and it’s the only way for him to make a career over there
Willy Taveras: Scrappy and fast, like Cesar Geronimo was, those little Dominicans can fly!
"I can eat mayonnaise with a spoon." - Jeff Brantley
by BK on Apr 30, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
NYC
I loved ED, but Reds fans did not. They booed him whenever he came up and filled talk radio with stories of his laziness, because he was always hurt. Sure, after the great catch or the HR, they loved him, but I heard plenty of expletives at that Stadium directed toward him and striking out ways
so a poor mans ken griffey junior?
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he signed a huge contract at the time
And the other difference was that Junior got hurt during freak things like rounding a base, whereas ED always got hurt sliding or diving. For God’s sake, who lacerates a kidney?!?
I loved so much he still my official photo for Linkedin
Griffey hurt his shoulder laying out for a catch
and hurt his kness on a hard slide into home plate.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know
I love Ken, but as often as he hurt himself playing hard, he also seemed to have a sniper in the stands actually shooting him in the hamstring.
Are you old enough to remember him breaking his wrist catching a ball against the fence when he was an M? A terrific freaking catch, made all the better by the fact that you can’t hear his bones break through the TV.
Eric made those catches too. He was deliriously awesome
I remember him
as someone everybody loved. i actually took one of his habits to help me out. I wouldtap my leg with my glove before catching a fly ball. It may sound silly but it helped with judging the ball. This combined with my Chris Sabo rec specs made me a true late 80’s Reds fan .
by fourrunhomer on Apr 30, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not at the end, Timb
But earlier in his Reds tenure, he was a hero in Cincy. Maybe my perspective is skewed a bit because I was young when he was in his prime, but until he started getting hurt all the time, he was loved.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I bet the season after he went 20/80
and then hit 19 bombs before memorial day (I remember him on the cover of SI), he was loved. But I always remember sMArty complaining about the K’s
'cause that's what sMarty do
Generally people really liked him, though
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I don't know
but Herm Winningham was one of my favorite Reds
by fourrunhomer on Apr 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
A couple things
No need to bust the kid’s balls for being EXCITED that he’s in the friggin’ major leagues cough justin cough. I’m one of the biggest EdE fans on this site, but no one will disagree with the fact that he’s been shit so far. He’s been costing the team runs, and needed this DL trip since ST. That being said, he can still be one of the team’s most productive offensive players once he comes back.
As for the fan base, I sorta think you’re onto something with the legacy of Pete Rose thing. Local fans can relate to the Chris Sabo’s, Chris Stynes’, Ryan Freel’s, and Jeff Keppinger’s of the world, so they get cheered for excessively. In the grand scheme of things BFD, it is what it is. So yeah, cheer for Rosie while he’s hot and starting, give EdE his rightful chance when he comes back, and worry about more important things in the meantime, like why this offensive is so pathetically awful.
Not by me.
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
Scrappy
is NoHo’s middle name.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
It's not just Cincinnati
I think it ties into something deeply American. Deeply human, even: the idea that you can do anything, as long as you try hard enough.
Sure, people love the high-paid superstars, too, but it’s easier to identify with the scrappy, hustling guys who are just trying to stick.
It’s the Susan Boyle story, on the diamond.
And no, I don’t think race is necessarily a factor. Yankees fans went crazy for scrappy, hustling Melky Cabrera in 2006.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't think you're wrong.
But I think race is deeply tied into all our nations of hard-working entrepreneurship, the self-made man, and on the other side of that – athlete celebrity.
And saying the Yankees loved Melky Cabrera is sort of like the “I’m not racist, I have a black friend” argument.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
I don't doubt
that racism is still an issue in baseball. It wasn’t that long ago when you had people seriously arguing that black guys should be outfielders because they’re fast but dumb. Catchers and pitchers needed to be smart, so of course they were white. Blacks are still way overrepresented in the outfield.
But I really don’t see this particular issue as a race one. Chone Figgins is as scrappy as David Eckstein.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't want to take away your joy from watching someone
have a good time doing something I wish I were talented enough to do. I just want that joy tempered with the reality of what makes a winning baseball team. Adam Rosales belongs on this team right now and I’m hoping he continues his hot streak. But over anything more than 6 weeks, EdE is a better player and the best shot the organization has at winning.
As far as the fan base goes, there are fan favorites on every team and often they are the marginally talented, scrappy guy. But only in Philly or NYC would an Adam Dunn be run out of town on a rail for producing runs. The Rose-heads here are part of the problem, but partially, and I know this sounds silly at first blush, that’s because if WLW and Marty. WLW pimps these scrappy guys a million hours a day, because they appeal to the demo WLW is trying to reach.
Marty pimps them, because, well, who hasn’t heard him drone on about Pete? He has good reason. He joined the team in ‘74 (or ’72) and I have heard him reminisce over and over about Pete’s decision to play third in ‘75, thus allowing Foster to play left and how that keyed a long winning streak. Looking at Pete and thinking he was great for hustling is like thinking Ty Cobb was great because he sharpened his spikes or Gibson was wonderful because he glared and sniped at everyone. Nonetheless, it was the enduring legacy Pete chose and he’s made millions on it while all the sordid details were swept under the rug.
The fact that this community exists is massive growth within the Cincinnati fan base. These ideas percolate so well I heard Cowboy, as poor as an announcer as I have ever heard, refer to Taveras’s OBA last night. Nuxie, may he rest in peace with my eternal love, did not know what that stat WAS, let alone why it was important.
I agree with you
I also think Cincy fans drooling over hustle and grit and comparing every white utility player to Pete Rose is outdated and I hate hearing this kind of stuff every time I watch or listen to a game. But I dont get the scorn and hostility towards these kinds of fans.
Sometimes I think Sabre-minded people get uppity when it comes to other fans ignorant of this sort of analysis. I am perfectly able to understand most of it, but i dont think I am a better fan because I know what OPS and ERA+ is. I just appreciate different things about the game. I think we should let them do the same without criticism.
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
I don't know if they should go without criticism
when such an appreciation leads too many fans to depreciate what makes for valuable baseball, but I do think our criticism of fans and their likes and dislikes ought to have more humility and perspective. Mine included.
If Rosales is playing well and some fans like Rosales because he’s playing well and, deep down, they like him because he’s white like they are, then it doesn’t really matter to me all that much as a Reds fan because they’re rooting for a player who’s playing well and helping the team win.
Too often conversations about race and fandom, if not initiated by self-congratulation, are fueled and sustained by self-congratulation, rather than pointing out why and how it’s a genuine problem for the team. I’m interested in conversations about the latter.
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Apr 30, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
well-put
I congratulate you on your logic*
*See what i did there? It was an attempt at comedy! Still, whereas i agree slightly with you, I don’t think racism should EVER go without me abusing the racist, no matter color that person is.
As long as your abuse does not come on the heels of a possibly unfair presumption
I don’t think that it’s a problem.
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Apr 30, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Well put again
I guess the center of my argument is that i dont think the merit of someone’s fanhood should be judged on the basis of whether or not they understand the more advanced metrics of the game, and if you do think that you are the better fan, why criticize someone for it?
But i think you understand my point.
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
I do, and I think it's a helpful point to make
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Apr 30, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't have a problem with the fans as much as the media
Jim Day’s enthusiasm for Rosales last night was making me a little uncomfortable and it also disappointed me because I think it overshadowed what an outstanding performance Volquez had last night. To me, that was the most important story of the game with Rosales and Nix tied for second.
I don’t expect any level of intelligence from fans – everyone has the right to enjoy the game how they want – though I do get frustrated by many of the what I would consider under-educated opinions that I hear. This is why I get frustrated with the media. They don’t have to talk about OPS+ or UZR, but it’s hard for me to watch when they boost stereotypes or emphasize things that I consider to be wrong or misinformed.
Fans should be fans at whatever level they want to be, but the frustrating thing for me in this instance is that I was begging for more playing time for Rosales last fall and I wanted him to make the team this Spring. But now that he’s been turned into an overnight cult hero, I’m a little turned off by it. I guess I’ve never been one to get wrapped up in the story of the player as much as the value of a player, but then I know I’m not a typical baseball fan.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I sympathize with you
Oddly, it’s not enough that others like the same things we do, if they like them for the “wrong” reasons. We’re strange animals.
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Apr 30, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I know
I’ve been in a weird mood today, and I think this has a lot to do with it. I should be excited for Rosales finally getting his chance and because he helped the team win, but I can’t help feeling like the wrong things are being emphasized about the win. I probably should just get over myself though.
Also, my head is still totally spinning from Lost last night, but I won’t go into that for fear of spoiling it for others.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Holy shit, no kidding
There was a 7 minute stretch near the end that was the most info packed, plot driving moment the show’s ever had……absolutely nuts
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
I love episodes where my wife, who is quite intelligent, says, “Okay, I don’t get it.” at the end. Then you know there was some serious shit going on in that episode.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Haven't seen it yet
but my gf said the episode made her “excited for next week’s” which seems to be the theme for season 5. Have to help a friend move tonight; I hope I can watch online late.
Will you stop it with the vegetables
by Man Mountain on Apr 30, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i feel like what you just said fits in many different categories of life,
politics and history comes to mind. It is frustrating when you are more educated than somebody else and you hear them say things that are wrong, and you try to explain things to them and they get indignant, and continue to spout off about things they don’t understand and don’t want to take the time to understand.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, But
I hate it equally when some one thinks they are educated but really do not have a clue about life. They’ve read all the books about something but have no real life or practical experience. Put them in the real world and they are lost.
I think it’s the same way with stats/sabre/whatever. it definitely has it’s place and is usefull, but i have heard people spouting off numbers and i swear they have never played or watched an actuall game in their life.
I like stats and am intrigued by some of the newer ones, but I also am drawn by players personalities, style of play, and other intangibles.
Whatever draws some one to the game of baseball, I say good for them. the more fans the better.
by fourrunhomer on Apr 30, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i am mostly talking about fans who say
Keppinger is awesome he just plays the game the right way, and you use stats to point out he struggles in a number of categories and is a statue of a shortstop. and they say well he still plays hard…
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I used to be that guy about 3 or 4 years ago
and then I was wrong too many times for my liking. I’m making an effort to be more balanced in my analysis.
I’m tryin’, Ringo. I’m tryin’ real hard to be a shepherd.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
I think we all go through that phase
And then we hit our 30’s and realize that we really don’t know all that much, but that’s ok.
Of course, I am now approaching 40 where one re-enters that phase, which is why I am becoming a know-it-all again.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Wait until you fucking hit 60
You can’t remember if you still know what you thought you knew back in the day when you thought you knew what was was really going on.
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
I agree totally here
To me, it’s more the fans than the media. Every city, every sport has ignorant fans. It’s the writers’ and broadcasters’ job to not be ignorant and to understand the game they are talking about. At the end of the day, fans don’t really have much sway over front office or managerial decisions, but I feel like the media can.
Even if they don’t have direct influence, I feel like media set up a culture of what is valued in a team. In Cincy, it’s “hustle” and “playing the game the right way”. That culture, instilled by Marty, etc, has so permeated the minds of fans that they automatically cheer a guy who sprints to first on a walk.
I don’t blame the fans at all.
Also, agreed on an earlier post that Rose’s hustle accounted for maybe 10% of what made him so good
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
i read an interview of the guys over at FJM
and they said that is why they started their website. People take what sports announcers have to say as truth, and they wanted to point out that they are quite often wrong.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
And for the record
Here in nyc, the local tv announcers are just as bad. Keith Hernandez constantly refers everything to his playing days, as if he experienced everything there was to experience in the game.
One of the Yankees guys said about the Reds during spring training that the only player on the Reds that he’d want on the Yankees is Bronson
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
he would rather have Bronson than Harang?
wow
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
and it was basically all because he remembers Bronson dominating the Yankees when he was with Boston, so automatically he’s got to be the Reds best player
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
Boston and Yankee fans do wear blinkers for each other
It’s like baseball’s not played south of the Bronx
Mike Francessa is probably the worst baseball analyst I've heard
I used to have a sales job in the area, and driving around I usually had the radio on WFAN. Russo was at least excitable. Francessa is insufferably arrogant, and he’s usually wrong (on baseball).
Couple of things
First, the media thing is spot-on.
Second, I believe that my appreciation for the Reds and the game itself has been greatly enhanced by this site and the different perspective everyone brings to the table. Each team and fan-base would benefit from the info and opinion that flows so freely at RR. While I may not always agree, I am always impressed by the level of commitment. I also think it is easy to take this for granted
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
please don't let the bosses at my job know about my level of commitment to this site :)
I think your second point is why I believe this site is a better set of fans than your typical set of Reds fans, though I doubt I would argue than any one of us is the best type of fan, which is kind of a silly thought. The fact that we all can teach and learn from each other in a fairly orderly manner gives us the leg up on “typical fans.” It’s not so much what you know as what you are willing to know. I think for the most part this site is open-minded, even if we can get tunnel vision on some topics from time to time.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
by Slyde on Apr 30, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We could do a whole thread on fans.
Where I am consulting right now there are at least 30-35 hard core Red’s fans. These folks are for the most part middle to lower middle class moderately well educated persons who are in sales and service. Black,White, Male and Female. They are in love with Marty,they for the most part find Brantley ‘The New Joe Nuxhall" and there’s not a lot of love for Grande and Welsh although tHom walks on water. These folks go the games, they shell out their $$$ and have suffered through same years of losing that we have. I understand their approach to the game in general, these guys talk abut pitch selection against different hitters, how the fielders set up for different batters and different pitchers, they love to discuss strategy and for the most part have lots of dusty love and no use what so ever for stats. These are good folks who love the game and their team…but they are mentally lazy, and maybe not the most imaginative bunch around.
Interestingly today a number of the guys herre have been talking about how Rosales needs to ‘act like he’s been there before’..his goofy scrappy-iness is not MAN-LIKE enough for them…why because he’s too nerdy.
Bottom line for me:
Fans want action and to win
They are mentally lazy
Many of them are the equivalent of ‘Sports Neo-Cons’ repeating what they hear sMarty and P=Dick give as the Red’s Gospel on the radio, without challenging it at all.
Most of them are not all that brilliant to begin with and the average fan’s sports IQ drops about 20 points with each beer.
Most of the guys in the media are cut from the same cloth as the fan I’m describing.
They love to preach to the choir.
Slyde is correct and not condescendingly so where he makes the statement that:
"I believe this site is a better set of fans than your typical set of Reds fans; by better I would take that to mean: more aware that’s there are many valid ways to look at baseball, RRs dig deeper into the game, looking at stats as well as personalities and evaluating long term talent of most platers effectively.
You will not find those same knee jerk fans at Madison Bowl….just sayin’
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
Who can forget the great tHom calling for Hunter Pence to bunt
Monday evening? tHom has watched enough baseball to know better and there’s certainly plenty of analysis out there for him to actually read something and learn it.
yes but I dont think its a Cincinnati thing
white players pretty routinely are more frequently described in favorable terms hard worker/ knows how to play the right way/ great clubhouse guy than latin or african american players.
But the flip side is players that are making really valuable contributions ie Jeff Keppinger before he blew out his knee cap can have these same labels limit his contributions and sometimes a latin player like EE whom doesnt seem particular athletic to me and always rates as one of the worse defensive 3rd basemen in the league may be seen as having more potential than he really has.
With regards to Rosales he will definitely be loved by the fanbase partly because of his skin color and that he plays in a more extroverted fashion than the sometimes sulking EE.
But from a Sabermetric perspective- Rosales also will probably save a signicant amount of runs compared to EE possible in the range of 30 runs a year. So if Rosales can be somewhere around league average offensively- the prejudiced views of the fanbase may be correct in respect of the players respective contributions.
Ok alrgiht already...
Lets move on to bowling
Tonight between the hours of 9:00 pm and 11:59 pm Mads will need your physic energy and support and the Clusterfuck Comets line up for position round, Meditate on Madville throwing strike after strike (a la Voltron) and bowling at least a 600 series. This is the last game of the the season…I will be in Rosales/Stien/Sabo/Roseand Bob Shreve mode tonight..the scrappiest-drunkest bowler at Madison Bowl….be with me brothers and sisters.
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
Long time between games
I need recs for RSS feeds. I have just started using Google Reader and must say its pretty awesome. I know can browse several websites at once at work and it sort of looks like I am reading email.
So far I have subscribed to Fangraphs; Epicurious; Pitchforkmedia: Hardball Times; New Yorker; the Nation and the National Review.
Any Recs are apprecriated.
Beyond the Boxscore
Rob Neyer’s Sweet Spot
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
thanks added
I’m looking forward to the decrease productivity and the inevitable spring 2010 call down to the unemployement office
Maybe when Edwin gets back
and IF is fully healthy and hitting the Reds would consider having Rosales or Edwin play 1st, and try Joey in LF. It’s going to have to be done at some point (Probably end of 2010 for Alonso). This would be a sweet lineup:
Taveras cf
Phillips 2B
Votto LF
Encarnacion 3B
Bruce RF
Rosales 1B
Hernandez C
Gonzalez SS
Pitcher
I know it’s not going to happen, and you shouldn’t have your best hitter switch positions in the middle of the year, but I think everyone knows at some point Votto is going to LF (barring a trade of him or Alonso). Might as well get it done before we are ready to contend.
Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle
I still think Alonso's trade bait, Mike
I keep saying and someone’s gonna tell me to shut up eventually, but much like the Brewers sent their slugging minor league first baseman to the indians, the Reds will sending Yonder somewhere else. Let’s hope we keep our CC
Shut up timb...
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
I think Joey plays where Joey wants to play
He’s been working hard on his defense at 1B and it’s not exactly fair to him to have to switch positions for an unproven player. I think we should let Alonso have some success in the minors before we start moving our good players around. (I know I’ve been guilty of this in the past too, but I’m turning a new leaf on this one). Besides, Frazier has been playing LF some in AA. What happens if he beats Alonso to the big leagues?
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Good points
plus there is always the unfortunate injuries, nobody is guaranteed health. I love Votto, and he is great at making the picks at 1st, but still makes me a little nervous on other plays. Seems like he’s unsure weather to take plays himself or toss it to the pitcher covering first.
Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle
He had a terrible time with that last year
which is why the media’s obsession with EdE’s defense always seemed so weird. here we have a first baseman who can’t make a throw to the pitcher. BUT, that hasn’t been a serious problem this year that I’ve seen. He seems hesitant, but no errors yet on those plays
Not to bust the Votto balloon
but he made two errors on one play the other day. one was the toss to the pitcher.
See, that was the game I missed
This is why we should have hung out in the late 80’s. I could show my Larkin Buddha and you could show me your Sabo glass. Then, we could both talk about the amazing things Eric Davis could do and still look cool doing them in those terrible uniforms.
That's what they are doing
No way Votto moves this year, before Alonso even has a full pro season under his belt. That would just send the message that his spot is reserved and waiting for him. Probably not a good message to send.
I think, if the time comes, Votto will move to LF though. The guy seems to just want to win and contribute, and would probably make the switch even if he doesn’t want to.
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
absolutely
Based on what he’s said in the media, I think Votto comes off as the type of player that would move positions if it was clearly best for the team. I’m just not sure the evidence is there yet that moving Votto to LF is the best long-term move. We’re at least a year from knowing that, if not further.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
this is my 2011 Reds
C- Hanigan or some veteran.
1st Yonder
2nd Phillips
SS Cozart
3rd Frazier
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs/Dickerson
LF Votto
SP Harang Cueto Volquez Bailey Owings
RP Stewart Roenicke Fischer
SuperSub Rosales.
Votto has the speed to be at least an average defensive LF. I am not ready to give up on Dickerson I still believe he has a great approach at the plate and despite early season struggles will be an above average defender.
How good is Cozart defensively? I offensive progression looks great.
Overall looks like a pretty solid talent group- Jockety needs to work on signing the core right now- Cueto, Votto, Volquez and Bruce to 5 year deals.
locking up Cueto and Volquez is a little nerve wracking
they are both young, and are both one pitch away from being shells of their former selves. I had less trouble singing Harang and Arroyo to long term contracts because they were at a prime age for pitchers, they made it to their late 20s without any major arm trouble, but they won’t be that old when their contracts expire.
Plus Cueto, Volquez, Votto, and Bruce have 5 years until they hit free agency.
Bloop
by justin007000 on Apr 30, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you sign all 4 through
1st year of Free Agency.
If one contract blows up you are still ahead. 2 contracts blow up you lose a little money. With for instance Tampa Bay- they are so far ahead on the Longoria contract they could have Price be total worthless and they are still far ahead on those 2 contracts.
Just by waiting a year on Votto it has become alot more expensive to buy out his arbitration and 1st free agency year.
I'd agree with most of this
Except Chris Heisey or Danny Dorn are more likely to be the 4th OF than Dickerson. I’d certainly take that lineup, though.
And maybe by late 2011 Mesoraco is ready to get called up
Isn't there a slanket somewhere you should be filling with your farts?
As much as I've liked Owings so far this year...
Do you think the Reds actually have any intention of keeping him on?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
Do you mean non-tendering him?
He’s not eligible for arbitration for another year at least (maybe 2?). So, I’m thinking they would keep him for next year. You can never have too many pitchers
I would think so
but this year will probably decide that question. He has a lifetime 4.90 FIP which would definitely be welcomed by the Reds at the back end of their rotation.
Its interesting how much he has changed his pitching approach from Arizona. Throwing a cutter or changeup 50% of the time compared to 13% last year.
Depending on how you feel about the Reds ability to develop pitchers this could be good news or a disaster waiting to happen as the Reds change another pitchers approach.
Stubbs and c-dick are never going to be impact players.
Good AAAA guys but r4eplacement level at best.
I’d take Wily T. over either of them as of now.
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
dont hate on C-Dick
this is personal to me.
An environmentally sound/ sensitive/ attractive OF that can draw walks and hopefully sometime this year hit for a little power.
In the long run I would love C-Dick to succeed but this is an area the Reds should have some solid choices in the future. And the worse case you can always pick up a player like Taveras whom as long as continues with his dramatic increase in walk rate his fine with me.
I love C-Dick
In fact if I were gay and free I would marry him…but he’d better start hitting and catching the baseball if he wants to remain at his present level.
I want to be there when a trailer full of coffins slams into a an ambulance full of terminally ill Bolivians. Or when the Reds win a WS..whichever comes first....
exactly
hes a dreamboat- I am putting out some positive vibes that he will start hitting pronto. The pressure is on- players like C-Dick have a real small window of opportunity hopefully he will make it.
FIP
is I think a rate stat is suppose to adjust ERA for defense or Pitching independent of defense. So I believe it factors what a pitcher can control walk rate/ home run rate/ strike out rate to give you a stat that projects better than ERA.
Fielding Independent Pitching
it’s a short-hand way to estimate what a pitcher’s ERA should be given the number of walks, strikeouts, and home runs he allows. It’s typically a better estimate of future ERA than ERA by itself.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
yep
they’re basically identical formulas, though they were created independent of each other at virtually the same time. FIP is typically more common because it’s available at THT and FanGraphs.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
Hey,
a commenter above theorized the replacement of EdE’s defense with Rosales would save the Reds thirty runs. I’ve never used fangraphs before, but I did look Edwin’s UZR, which was -12.9. They don’t do minor league (that I could find) games. Is there a place where I could find that on the cheap (my wife is already unhappy with the Baseball Prospectus membership fee)?
minorleaguesplits.com
has TotalZone numbers for minor leaguers. its not the most accurate stat in the world (for a number of reasons), but it gives you an idea.
Consider the Eskimos.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Apr 30, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
the best we've got for minor leagues is
minorleaguesplits.com. I’d link you to the player page, but the site isn’t set up to do that. You can search for his name and then click the defense link. Honestly, with the reliability of the data already in question, I think it’s hard to tell his defensive value based on the fact that he plays so many positions. My guess is that he’s an upgrade over EdE, but 30 runs is incredibly steep. Evan Longoria was a net of 24 runs over EdE last year, and they were the two extremes at the position according to UZR. I’d guess the difference between EdE and Rosales is more like 15 runs, which is not insignificant.
"It seems like we're not hitting because we're not getting hits." - Dusty being Dusty
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