sMarty on Leatherpants: MLB Home Plate, XM 175
Marty Brennaman joined Kevin Kennedy and Jeff Joyce on their "Inside Pitch" show this afternoon, primarily to discuss the Jim Bowden resignation and Marty's outspoken celebration during Sunday's broadcast. I won't rehash Sunday's comments, but move forward to today's discussion.
Jeff Joyce opened with, "Was it a personal thing between you and him or how he treated others that really bothered you?"
MB: "It was a combination of all of the above." (paraphrasing quite a bit going forward) "Many times when he was with the Reds he'd pull me aside and say, 'Listen, I'm not telling this to anyone but you,' and then the next morning I'd see it in the newspaper. After a few times, I told him, 'Look-- I'm not interested in anything you have to say to me.' He treated people at times with incredible disrespect."
Marty went on to use Bowden's treatment of Jeremy Sowers, who was a highly regarded pitcher graduating from a Cincinnati-area high school, as an example of how Bowden liked to "Big-Time" it. "It was a three-ring circus." Sowers's family had made abundantly clear that their son was going to Vandy, regardless of team or position that he was drafted. Bowden made a big show of flying all the scouts in from around the country and bringing the local press to the stadium to watch the kid throw.
Kevin Kennedy asked about Bowden's relations regarding the Dodgers and Jeff Shaw. Marty wasn't, but hurried to point out the Ken Griffey Junior trade. Marty said, "Now Pat Gillick may have issues, but he is nothing but a class act when it comes to baseball and baseball professionals. Of course, Junior had been very public about only wanting to go home to Cincinnati and nowhere else, so Gillick was in a very difficult position. Bowden subsequently boasted in numerous circles about how he'd gotten the best of the Mariners in that trade. That's just not the way to treat people if you want to keep the respect of the people in the business."
Jeff Joyce asked why Bob Boone's affiliation with Bowden was so long-standing. Marty: "For the life of me, I could never figure that one out. Bob Boone is the antithesis of Jim Bowden in every aspect. He is thoughtful and soft-spoken. He's very intelligent-- well, I could never say that Jim Bowden was not very intelligent himself, but I never understood why Bob had such a good relationship with Bowden."
Kevin Kennedy followed up with Bob Boone's hiring over Ron Oester. Marty admitted he might be messing up some of the details after so much time, but as he recalled Ron Oester asked Jim for some time to think about the financial offer that had been made for him to manage the Reds. "Jim encouraged him to think it over, then as soon as he was off the premises, he turned around and hired Bob. With all due respect to Bob, but in retrospect I think Ron Oester would have been a tremendous manager with this organization at that time."
Marty was asked if there were any echoes in the Reds organization that were sort of nodding knowingly regarding bonuses and Latin American players. Marty was not aware of any of that, but "I am very dear friends with John Allen, the Reds president while Bowden was GM. I spoke with him when this started to come out that there was going to be a federal investigation into Bowden's involvement, and I asked him if he'd spoken with anyone about Bowden's time with the Reds. He told me he had no comment, but I GUARANTEE you the Feds will want to speak with John Allen if they have not already. The only thing, the way the Reds terminated their relationship with Jose Rijo's academy in the Dominican was almost overnight. It went down too quickly for something to have happened that was not on the up-and-up."
Kevin Kennedy asked how a GM should go about his business and represent a ballclub. Marty lauded Wayne Krivsky, Dan O'Brien and Bob Quinn. All had the respect of the people in the business. There was no one who had greater respect than Bob Howsam, who "oughta' be in the Hall of Fame, isn't and I can't understand for the life of me why" and finished completion of the Big Red Machine. He was the same kind of guy, who made deals that benefit both sides and had the respect of their peers in the business. Case in point was the Volquez/Hamilton trade.
Who will take over the Nationals? "My son , Thom, speaks very highly of Mike Rizzo in Arizona as a possible (Kevin Kennedy REALLY likes him, too). And there's some real smart young guy in Florida, too. I don't know if John Hart is someone who would want to get back in the game or not."
AND HERE IS THE MONEY SECTION OF THE EXCHANGE:
Jeff Joyce returns to Bowden. "How'd he stay in the game so long if he has these kind of issues?" Marty: "I'll tell you how, but cozying up to the owners. Of course, Jim was with the Reds when they won the World Series. Bob Quinn was the GM when the Reds won the World Series in 1990. I remember I stood in Lou Pinella's office and told him, 'Bob, this guy is going to cut your throat and stand there and watch you bleed.' Quinn didn't believe it. Bowden cultivated the favor of Marge Schott and eventually replaced Quinn. I will NEVER understand why Bud Selig named him the GM of the Nationals when they were under the stewardship of Major League Baseball. Once he got that job, Jim looked around and gambled that the Lerner family was eventually going to have the winning bid to acquire the team. So he curried the favor of the Lerner family. There are people who will tell you that Stan Kasten wanted to fire Bowden when he became President of the team, and the Lerner family wouldn't allow it. If you're wondering why Jim Bowden has lasted all this time, it's because he sucked up to Marge Schott and he sucked up to the Lerner family."
They finally finished up with some token banter about the Reds. "Aaron Harang is gonna' be fine. I'm not worried about him. I think what happened last year was an aberration...I really believe this team has the chance to be the best pitching staff Cincinnati has had since the 1990 World Series. Now what does that say? This team has been known for a lot of things, but good pitching is not one of them, but they could do it. And Aaron Harang is gonna' be the key to that... Cueto, Volquez, and if Bronson Arroyo can put it all together. He was as good in the second half as he was bad in the first half." Surpisingly (to me), Marty was in Bradenton today. "Of course you've got Micah Owing and Nick Masset are contending for the # 5 spot. And Homer Bailey..." He recounted Homer Bailey's pitching line for the day (3 IP, 1 H, 4K, 1 BB) and said he had "outstanding stuff." "No one says so, but I truly believe they'd like him to get the #5 spot."
The hosts wrapped up with a hat tip to the pitching staff, but said the offense was going to have a hard time keeping up. Walt Jocketty might have to trade some of that pitching to fill the gap. Kevin Kennedy said, "Knowing Walt Jocketty, he's not going to trade pitching for offense. He knows you win with pitching and defense." He went on to point to the 83-win St. Louis ballclub and the key pitching performances that got it done with just enough offense from Albert Pujols, suggesting WJ would rely on Jay Bruce and Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips to get it done.
3 recs |
25 comments
Comments
I listened to most of the interview.
And I was surprised by how reserved Marty was. He said all of the things that Moskau transcribed here but it’s worth nothing that this was not one of Marty’s demonstrative cranky old man tirades. He was as diplomatic and gentlemanly as I’d guess it is possible for a demonstrative cranky old man can be.
"Dr. Two-Brains has a strange name because he does have two brains but he's not really a doctor. He just steals cheese."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Mar 2, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
"(Jockety) knows you win with pitching and defense. He went on to point to the 83-win St. Louis ballclub and the key pitching performances that got it done with just enough offense from Albert Pujols, suggesting WJ would rely on Jay Bruce and Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips to get it done.
- “(Jockety) knows you win with pitching and defense.” The ‘06 Cards team referenced was 5th in the league in RA, but in a pitcher’s park; they were 10th in ERA+. (Bonus point: “This team (the Reds) has been known for a lot of things, but good pitching is not one of them” – The Reds’ ERA+ in ‘06 was better than the Cards’). To be fair, they did have a pretty good defense, but it wasn’t anything special (by DER).
- “Just enough offense from Albert Pujols”? In ‘06, Pujols was 1st in the NL in OPS and OPS+. His OPS+ of 178 won’t be touched this year by anyone in a Reds uniform. Further, Scott Rolen added an OPS+ of 126 (about as good as any Red will do), Edmonds 110, and Chris Duncan was at 140 in 314 PA. As a team they were 6th in the NL in scoring. The offense was more than Pujols, and Pujols’ contribution was certainly more than “just enough”.
- “WJ would rely on Jay Bruce and Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips to get it done.” If Jockety (or anyone) is relying on BP to “get it done” offensively, this is going to be yet another long season.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on Mar 2, 2009 5:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
And here I was writing a long response...
but, yeah, what you said. The narrative of the ’06 Cardinals is set, nothing will shake it.
There's action across the street. It's Snowman! Take him!
by Man Mountain on Mar 2, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the "just enough" refers only to the team,
which had a 101 OPS+. That would be “just enough” offense for a championship team. They certainly had a stars-and-scrubs club with Pujols and the others you mentioned making up for offensive deadweights like Molina, Miles, Taguchi, etc.
by ken on Mar 2, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're misusing OPS+
Or at least putting too much emphasis on it. Again, they were 6th in RS that year, in a pitcher’s park. Whether you want to call it “lucky” or “opportunistic”, that offense was much better than OPS+ makes it out to be.
Further, that team just wasn’t very good (they outperformed Pythag by about 1/2 win) and probably wouldn’t have made the playoffs if they’d been in another division (they were 4 1/2 games behind the wild card). Once in the playoffs, though, they became a different team; while they outscored their opponents by 19 runs during the 161 game season, they outscored them by 20 in the 16 game postseason.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on Mar 2, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
David Eckstein only plays on scrappy-pitching-and-defense teams
Dontcha’ know? I was getting ready to stick up for Kevin Kennedy’s description of the team, but there’s not much there to support it. I guess when So Taguchi gets that many starts in LF (35— no one had more than 40 starts LF), the assumption is you are a team with no offense. The pitching was really poor— until the playoffs started. Somehow, that Jeff Weaver acquisition paid off in the end. Suppan, Carpenter— and then it gets ugly: Marquis (74 ERA+), 1/2 season of Mulder (62), 1/2 season of Weaver (86), sprinkle in some Reyes (88) and Sir Sidney Ponson (85).
"You never pass up an opportunity to talk to a woman in a red dress." -- Buck O'Neil (1911-2006)
by "Red" Moskau on Mar 3, 2009 5:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Marty's point was that '06 Cards didn't have a great offense
And I agree, whether you look at their hitting by OPS+ or even runs scored (I think it’s misleading to say they played in a pitcher’s park when the multi-year park factor was 99). Pujols carried that offense as much as any single player can. Any good offense has to count on more than one guy, but I’ll bet Pujols’ portion of the team’s batting win shares is higher than any player has had on a championship team in the last twenty years outside of maybe Luis Gonzalez.
You’re right that the ‘06 team wasn’t great, particularly their pitching. But I don’t look at that team in a vacuum because they followed two very strong teams (over 200 wins in the prior two years) carried by great staffs (’05 team had a 121 ERA+, ’04 had a 114). Many of the key guys, like Carpenter, Suppan, Marquis, and Isringhausen were on all of those teams. In my mind the ’06 ring represents more than one flukey year; it was the pinnacle for that era of Cardinals baseball.
by ken on Mar 3, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it was Kevin Kennedy
"You never pass up an opportunity to talk to a woman in a red dress." -- Buck O'Neil (1911-2006)
by "Red" Moskau on Mar 3, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I drink?
for the Thom → Arizona reference? Well, I’m going to anyway.. Man he loves that team..
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
by snohio on Mar 2, 2009 8:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brief (promise!) follow up
Stan Kasten was on with Rob Dibble and Jody MacDonald in the afternoon. Dibbs politics are wacko, but he’s really quite good at the Q&A with MLB figures. Anyhoo, the two of them tried to corner Kasten in a way that it could be conclusively determined that Bowden had been pushed out. Kasten didn’t crack; said that he agreed with Bowden’s decision in terms of the distraction it had become to the organization and the team in terms of becoming and selling an improved product to Washington fans.
He said that there’d been a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense about him not wanting Bowden as GM. “If I didn’t want Jim Bowden, he wouldn’t have been here.” He pointed out with the state of the franchise when he arrived: little to no minor league resources, thin major league talent, significant budget constraints, Bowden was the ideal man for the job because he is “unparalleled” at working creatively to bring talent to the organization. “No one works harder than Jim, no one is smarter than Jim.”
What did Kasten think about Bowden before they both got to Washington? “It’s no secret that Jim’s style is not for everyone. I’d like to think I worked with him on those while we were together and I’d say he’s improved in those areas.”
Would Kasten give another organization the green light to hire Bowden? “He assured me that he will be 100% exonerated and he has to be. But assuming that is the case, as long as they’re comfortable with Jim’s style I’d give him my full endorsement. Again, no one works harder and no one is smarter than Jim Bowden.”
"You never pass up an opportunity to talk to a woman in a red dress." -- Buck O'Neil (1911-2006)
by "Red" Moskau on Mar 3, 2009 8:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
So, when sMarty says to Quinn
I remember I stood in Lou Pinella’s office and told him, ‘… this guy is going to cut your throat and stand there and watch you bleed.’
Is he referring to the shiv he just planted into Bowden’s back? Look, I’m not a huge fan of Jim Bowden (I will remember his time was the last time the major league team was competitive for more than three month stretches…Pete Harnisch, a lonely world turns its eye to you), but Marty jumping on his grave with all these little observations and memories? Just shows that when he told Griffey he’d better kiss his ring, because “I’ll be here long after you’re gone,” he wasn’t kidding. He’s the Gollum of broadcasters.
Oh, and Marty, the reason Bob Howsam is not in the Hall is because he was not a great GM. Finishing the Big Red Machine was amazing (like Crash Davis said about hitting .376 “that’s a career in any league”), but Bob was incapable of adjusting the new reality. As nice as putting the Big Red Machine together was, his dismantling of it was an embarrassment…a combination of union busting and salary dumping which eventually gave us the 1982 Reds. Thanks, Bob.
That’s why, Marty
by timb116 on Mar 3, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Some stand on the shoulders of giants
sMarty stands on the graves of Steve Stewart, Adam Dunn KGjr ,Lou Pinella, Jim Bowden and any other person who once was with the Reds and is now gone on to be a ‘loser’. He reminds me of an uncle I had who died very rich and very unhappy.
Uncle Bob’s motto:
There are 2 kinds of people in this world – Winners and Losers. You gotta be a winner no matter how many Losers you step over along the way to winning. No one wonder tHom always seems so bitter when he’s paired with dad.
Perhaps a a flatbed truck loaded with cadavers will explode in front of a Star Trek convention. One can only dream and hope.
by Madville on Mar 3, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
I have a tough time looking at Marty as a knight in shining armor here. Marty isn’t much less sleazy, he’s just old-school sleaze threatened by Bowden’s new school sleaze.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Mar 3, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And, Bowden was sleazy
I remember watching Gary Varsho playing right field for the Indianapolis Indians back in the day….Varsho had signed with the Reds because Bowden promised him a shot at the starting gig in Cincy, but, when there were too many left-handed bats, they optioned him. He was 33 years old and could have signed on a pinch hitter/reserve with a bunch of clubs, but only Jim promised him a chance to start.
And, start he did…for the Triple A team.
Jim made a habit out of lying and spinning his way through his tenure here.
by timb116 on Mar 3, 2009 1:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the absolute worst was when he signed Jeff Shaw for cheap because Shaw wanted to stay near home
and then he traded him.
"How big IS your magic wand?"
by Slyde on Mar 3, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No-trade clauses were against company policy at the time
So Bowden gave Shaw a commitment, then went back on his worthless word.
Of course, that trade domino’ed to land us Danny Richar and Nick Masset…meh.
I laid my bed and I'm going to have to sit on it. - A-Roid the Liar
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 3, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still,
Slyde, it could have been worse, he could have brought Jeff Brantley to the team and been responsible for the worst broadcast team since Hawk and Wimpy took to the mike.
I knew I like Nuxie, but I never knew I loved him
by timb116 on Mar 3, 2009 2:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hawk and Wimpy
Steve Stone, Pat Hughes…Chicago baseball announcers make you want to gouge your eyes out with a dull spoon
by bengalred on Mar 3, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as opposed to a sharp spoon, I guess.
maybe a grapefruit spoon with those little teeth?
by bengalred on Mar 3, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I say go for it

Perhaps a a flatbed truck loaded with cadavers will explode in front of a Star Trek convention. One can only dream and hope.
by Madville on Mar 3, 2009 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Where did "Leatherpants" originate?
was it from a Marty Brennaman call where the Reds beat the Nationals on a walk-off, and Marty said something about sending Bowden and his leather pants home a loser?
Anyone have the actual dialog from that call? I remember it was hilarious!
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Mar 4, 2009 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He came to winter meetings in 'em once
Bowden, parading around the winter meetings one year in not one, but two pairs of leather pants, one brown and one black. It remains an unprecedented clothing statement by the usually staid members of his profession.
This article is from ‘07, but the incident took place well before then, though I can’t find an exact date.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Mar 4, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
two pairs?
I hadn’t heard that before. Two pairs is too much, unless you’re a dominatrix.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Mar 4, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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