Red Reposter: 3/14/09

by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 14, 2009 12:31 PM EDT in News

Cincinnati Reds manager Dusty Baker asked a quick favor as his first comment of Saturday morning to the media: “Please don’t compare Jacque Jones to Corey Patterson.”

It isn’t clear what exactly he meant...

Apparently this is a response to what Hall o' Famer Hal wrote earlier. Jacque Jams is only hitting .087/.192/.087 so far this spring, and he has 23 ABs (Jeff Keppinger leads the team with 25). Chris Dickerson, Jones' competition for a roster spot, has 23 ABs as well, but he is tearing the cover off the ball to the tune of .348/.407/.696. So they are both getting a fair shot, but it is clear that Dickerson is not only younger and cheaper, but he is also proving to be the superior player. At least, by the metric of ST performance.

Now, it is clear Baker is personally pulling for his ol' buddy Jacque. I dont ipso facto have a problem with this, i mean, these guys aren't robots (unfortunately). They have feelings. But if Dusty lets this crap get in the way of putting together the most competitive ballclub (like he did with Corey Patterson) I will be none too pleased. So Dusty, please don't give us reason to compare Jacque Jams to Corey "Two-Pitch At-Bat"erson and then we won't. It's that easy.

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There is a whole article about Jock Jams in the Enquirer today

Dusty is practically licking his taint. It is sickening really. I fear Walt is going to have to flex some muscle on this matter. Hope he is up to it. I would give a link, but I cannot stand to visit Cincinnati.com.

beef hoagie

by Colin Auscapee on Mar 14, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions

Oh Lord.

Jones has struggled at the plate. Jones has two hits in 23 at-bats after Friday’s game with Minnesota. Three weeks of camp remain. Is that enough time for Jones to find his stroke?

“He’s almost got to find it,” Baker said. “When you’re trying to make the team you don’t have much choice.”

Baker said Jones’ numbers are a bit skewed by the fact that he’s faced so many left-handers. If Jones were to make the team, almost all of his at-bats would be against right-handers.

“It’s been a little unfair,” Baker said.

I also like this part:

When Florida released him June 17, he shut it down for the year. “I needed to,” Jones said. “It got to the point where baseball wasn’t fun. My mind was going a million miles an hour. I wasn’t playing like I’m capable of. I wouldn’t have done anyone any good.” Jones didn’t touch a bat for the rest of the summer.

I bet that really helped him become a better player.

“He’s vying for a position on the team,” Baker said. “We’ve still got time to make up our mind. Hopefully, he’ll get his stroke together.”

Um, at least he’s recognizing that Jones doesn’t have it together yet? That’s something, right? Oh, and the article is here.

We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.

by Gray on Mar 14, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Lucky us.

Walt makes the final roster decisions. If Jones’ numbers aren’t there, he doesn’t make the team. They simply can’t justify a spot for him when Gomes and Dickerson have had the springs they’ve had. Jones can go to AAA and “find it.” When you’re playing games that count you don’t have much choice.

Phone's ringing, Dude.

by rjdio on Mar 14, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions

i hope youre right

My millions are unconventional!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 14, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Of course then we're just

delaying the inevitable. If he goes to AAA, it’s only a matter of time before he’s called up.

We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.

by Gray on Mar 14, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Finding "it."

It all depends on what the “it” is that Dustbrains is wanting him to find.

Is “it” the 87 OPS+ that he put up in 2007? Or is “it” the 98 OPS+ lifetime?

Either way, even if he finds “it”, “it” won’t be enough, because anything south of 100 OPS+ is too little to expect from a left fielder.

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on Mar 14, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

But he can also play first!

We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.

by Gray on Mar 14, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Lucky it's Walt's decision?

Wow, you have a lot of blind faith in a guy who hasn’t done a damn thing for us.

by Brian B on Mar 14, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions

IIRC

Corey Patterson had good stats in spring training in 2008, and that carried into the first weeks of the season. He fizzled later.

by cokane on Mar 14, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions

JACK JUST AIN'T THE PLAYER HE USED TO BE

You know, when he was on the juice.
I could see him going to Louisville for a short ‘trial time’ to see if he can get anything going if so keep him around when some guys get injured…if not boot him.

We already got a Canadian Guy on the team we really don’t need no
Frogs.
There are a number of competing theories on how the “frog” nickname
came to be:

Here are six such theories from the web page “Archived French Frog
Stories”:
(1) Many French people enjoy eating frog legs.
(2) Clovis, an early Frankish king, adopted frogs as part of his
emblem.
(3) France’s national emblem, the Fleur de Lys, resembles a frog.
(4) England’s Queen Elizabeth I had a French suitor whom she
affectionately called her “little frog.”"
(5) The lands around Paris were swampy, so the peasants who dwelled
there were called “frogs” by the upper classes.
(6) At one time, French soldiers wore camouflaged uniforms and
resembled frogs.

Why is obc so mean to me when I offer an introduction to a beautiful 25 year old Red's Cheerleader.

by Madville on Mar 14, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions

that's racist !!

Nobody listens to Andrew

by nlt-andrew68 on Mar 15, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Jones

Well, he’s a career .277 hitter, so that means he’s going to rake the rest of the year, right Dusty? Isn’t that the way statistics work?

by Brian B on Mar 14, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions

I took Hal to task

for this blog entry. I doubt he responds, but a whole bunch of DDL readers will say how can I say that.

For as much as we get on Fay for his spelling Hal irritates me much more. He is lazy, there are soooooooo many factual errors in his work. All he has to do is a simple fact check. I can’t begin to think of the number of times he has incorrectly recounted history, whether it was incorrectly recounting Cueto’s first start, or recalling a trade but with the wrong players. I can understand him making some factual mistakes in his blog, I mean that is a rather quick write and post, but his articles aren’t any better.

I guess as a historian this bothers me because newspapers are important primary sources, and they need to be accurate, because newspapers aren’t just for today, they are a link to allow future generations a first hand account of the events of today.

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Mar 14, 2009 11:39 PM EDT reply actions

/justin'ed

There will be many people now who will incorrectly think Arroyo does not pitch will in April.

I like it when Will pitches Lane Bryant in April:

Not that I don’t agree with your DDN comment, but perhaps you could have made your point just as effectively while being more polite and respectful to Hal.

It's all fun and games until someone gets herpes. - Fox 4 News

by PeteyHendrix on Mar 15, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Hal is so....Hal

He’s a crusty old bastard who should be out on the links with sMarty.
And Petey if he’s gonna continue to fuck up we’re gonna continue to call him on it.

Why is obc so mean to me when I offer an introduction to a beautiful 25 year old Red's Cheerleader.

by Madville on Mar 15, 2009 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions

i don't think i was disrepectful

i used facts, i didn’t use any name calling. I was very firm.

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Mar 15, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions

giggity

Made from 100% recycled awesome,

by chandrathan on Mar 15, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

You said that your comment got deleted by the DDN...

First of all, I’m fond of both you and Hal. I didn’t say you were disrespectful, but rather that I thought you could have been as effective while being MORE polite and respectful.

If you were running into Hal in person, I think you would have made your point more like:

Hey, Hal…My name’s Justin, and I’m a big fan. It’s pretty cool to meet you – I’ve enjoyed reading you for years. I read your blog a lot, and I appreciate your candid insight into what really goes on behind closed doors with the Reds. I gotta tell you, though, I have to take issue with your misstatement today that Arroyo isn’t a good April pitcher. Maybe you remember it wrong, or you overheard someone – maybe even Arroyo – saying this recently. But I looked it up, and – STATS GO HERE – Many of us take your word as gospel, so I’m sure you’ll want to post a correction in your blog, lest anyone think less of our Golden Hair Boy! Say – could you use a free fact-checker? I’d be really dedicated…

I think this comes across as friendly and constructive, whereas your comment read more like “You were wrong. Do your job better. You’ve pissed me off.” Your desire was to inform everyone that there was an error and to encourage Hal to proofread more. However, your approach ended up having the opposite effect: since it’s been removed, no one will read the correction, and your comment was dismissed as being from “just another rude internet guy.”

Should Hal fact-check better? I think we all should, and I’m sure that includes Hal. It’s more important that Hal does fact-check, since for many he is the information pipeline you described. But it’s spring training for everyone, and Hal’s not getting younger, but I’d rather have a great writer like Hal whom most respect than some young kid on the beat who writes like crap and doesn’t have great stories, and is never critical. Also, Hal doesn’t HAVE to have a comments section on his blog, especially with all the abuse he’s taken on there. And it’s terrifically unimportant that a few dozen readers of Hal’s blog will have the incorrect impression of Bronson’s April tendencies. So you came off as hostile and over-reactive enough that they pulled your comment. I’m sure you’ll try to be more tactful in the future, because it will serve you better. And over time I think you’ll find that it feels better to be nice than to give in to the anger of righteousness, even when you’re right…which you almost always are.

It's all fun and games until someone gets herpes. - Fox 4 News

by PeteyHendrix on Mar 15, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

bottom line

the proverbial honey vs vinegar saying applies here.

I was lucky to have been raised in the seventies and eighties and was influenced by the zen master Dalton in Road House. “I want you to be nice…until its time to not be nice”.

"Hey! Look at the kid in the sombrero!"

by obc2 on Mar 15, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Fuckinh Deeeeep, Deep

Why is obc so mean to me when I offer an introduction to a beautiful 25 year old Red's Cheerleader.

by Madville on Mar 15, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Nothing screams “I know nothing about baseball” than someone who gives a thought to 23 at bats in exhibition games in early March, but it is good to know Charlie Scrabbles won’t be happy. Because everyone knows it was Corey Patterson that held the Reds back last year. It would require half a brain to realize that they brought him in to not start Jay Bruce’s service time at the beginning of the season. It would ask a person to use their whole brain to see that Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo were tossing BP all year. Did no one else notice Johnny Cueto pitched like one would expect a rookie, or that the team did not have a 5th starter at all. All those pitching issues that led to the necessary overuse of Affeldt, Weathers, and Burton because heaven forbid the Reds have anyone else in the pen qualified to throw a strike had any impact. It was the negligible difference among mediocre options in Patterson, Hopper, Jolbert Cabrera, and an injured Ryan Freel that held back the Reds. Just like it will be whether Jacque Jones makes the team as a 5th OFer whose primary role will be as a late game pinch hitter – not as competition for Chris Dickerson – and not whether guys like Homer Bailey and Micah Owings can give them some decent starts. It just goes to show when dumb people have no clue, they run to numbers without any idea what is their interpretable value.

Why do idiotic blogs appear on google news searches?

by TimBug on Mar 15, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions

Tim

first of all, thanks for dropping in. it is always good to see new blood engaging in the conversation around here.

now, on to your objections:

everyone knows it was Corey Patterson that held the Reds back last year

we all know Patterson was extraordinarily bad last year. was he the sole reason the team won only 74 games? of course not. and i never even alluded to such a claim. my point was that there is sufficient evidence to believe that Dusty personally lobbied for Patterson to make the team (Krivsky said as much after he was fired) and continued to play him when it was obvious he wasnt up to the task. it was a bad managerial move that ended up hurting the team. i dont want to see the same thing happen in regards to Jones.

Nothing screams "I know nothing about baseball" than someone who gives a thought to 23 at bats in exhibition games in early March

that is why i qualified that statement with this one: “So they are both getting a fair shot, but it is clear that Dickerson is not only younger and cheaper, but he is also proving to be the superior player. At least, by the metric of ST performance.” it certainly seem that Dusty is relying on these numbers to make certain decisions. of course they are a small sample size and mean very little, but if the manager thinks they are significant in some way then they are. he gets to make the decisions, so i get to criticize his rationale for making them. we are a blog about the Reds. it’s kinda what we are here for.

(if) Jacque Jones makes the team as a 5th OFer, (his) primary role will be as a late game pinch hitter – not as competition for Chris Dickerson

how do you know? everything the Reds have said thus far is that the competition for the starting LF job is wide open. and how do you know Dickerson is the front runner? are you a Reds insider? are you relying on his ST stats? his stats from 1 month of baseball last September? you cant use a small sample of stats to make your argument and then criticize me for doing the same. duh.

lastly, im not one of those overly-territorial troglodytes who gives a shit when a piss ant calls me out on my blog, but that still doesnt make it right for you to do it. we are a community here and we have rules regarding mutual respect and proper decorum. if you wanna hang around, then follow the rules. if you want to move on and never show up again, all the better.

so, i welcome you to Red Reporter and encourage you to continue posting. but please dont be a flaming jackass. we have enough of those around here as it is.

My millions are unconventional!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

Who are you calling a flaming JackAss, buddy....

Why is obc so mean to me when I offer an introduction to a beautiful 25 year old Red's Cheerleader.

by Madville on Mar 15, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions

so your premise is

that because the Reds had many faults, we shouldn’t be critical of any of them? Corey Patterson was arguably the second worst hitter in baseball last year. He cost the Reds 20+ runs with his bat all by himself. If you can’t see the problem with that then I doubt anyone could convince of much of anything.

It would require half a brain to realize that they brought him in to not start Jay Bruce’s service time at the beginning of the season.

Yep, that’s why they gave Corey Patterson a $3 million contract, to save money.

Just like it will be whether Jacque Jones makes the team as a 5th OFer whose primary role will be as a late game pinch hitter

The point is that there is no reason that Jacque Jones should make the team. The guy was cut mid-season last year and sat out the rest of the season because he sucked and he’s done nothing to prove otherwise so far this Spring. In what way has he justified even being a 5th outfielder?

Why do idiotic blogs appear on google news searches?

I guess it’s so people like you can educate us. Thank you for your service. Suffice it to say that if you come back with another insulting post like this, you’re going to get banned.

"How big IS your magic wand?"

by Slyde on Mar 15, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

If Jacque Jones deserves to be the 5th OF...

Then you do too. I think it would be more productive if that occurred, since you know how to play baseball the right way and would run out to your position.

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on Mar 16, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions

honestly

I wouldn’t run out to my position. I get winded using the stairs sometimes.

"How big IS your magic wand?"

by Slyde on Mar 16, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Tim-may

break up that big ass paragraph. im surprised any of us actually read it…

"Hey! Look at the kid in the sombrero!"

by obc2 on Mar 15, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Umm...not to pile on...

But this:

It would ask a person to use their whole brain to see that Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo were tossing BP all year.

Would seem to be incorrect. Harang only started throwing BP in game situations after Dustbrains abused him by pitching him in the extra-inning loss in San Diego. I think Slyde can find the stats to prove that.

Therefore, It would probably mean that you have less than a whole brain.

And Adam Dunn's spirit, ranging for revenge / With Ate by his side come hot from hell, / Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice / Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war...

by Paul Householder on Mar 16, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions