5 Things That Could Make the Reds Interesting out of Spring Training

Tony Dejak/AP
These are five things that, if they happen, could point to the Reds being something better than we expect them to be at this time, maybe even in serious contention for the playoffs:
1. Homer Bailey wins the 5th starter spot on his own merit.
Micah Owings has shown to be a pretty good pitcher, and would be a pretty good fifth starter if he wins it. But if Homer Bailey can put together a Spring like Johny Cueto had in 2008 and make it known that he is ready for the big leagues, this pitching staff could be very formidable. If Homer can finally harness that potential and turn it into something special, who knows what this team could do?
Alternative Positive Outcome: Micah Owings kicks ass on the mound and at the plate.
2. Alex Gonzalez's and Jeff Keppinger's knees are healthy.
If the Reds are going to be successful this year, shortstop cannot be the hole that it was last year. If Gonzalez's knee is healthy enough to actually flash some leather at the position, it will be a huge step up for the defense compared to 2008. If Jeff Keppinger is healthy enough to be a solid right-handed bat off the bench and utility infielder, then the bench may actually become a positive instead of the gaping hole it's been the last couple of years.
Alternative Positive Outcome: Chris Valaika plays so well in Spring, the Reds name him the Opening Day shortstop.
3. Chris Dickerson forces Dusty to play him regularly.
The Reds options for left-field are basically uninteresting. You've got a couple of guys who may be washed up, a couple of guys who have never been anything special, and Dickerson, a guy with a lot of skill, but not a lot past success. If Dickerson can manage to crush right-handers like he did all of 2008, and if the Reds can find a suitable right-handed bat to play the other side of the platoon, left field may not be as bad as it currently looks. This is probably asking too much, but with a talented player like Dickerson entering his prime age, maybe, just maybe he might put it all together for a year or two.
Alternative Positive Outcome: Jonny Gomes and Jacque Jones prove they have enough left to make a quality platoon in LF.
4. Edwin Encarnacion convinces Dusty Baker than he can be Tony Perez in the middle of the lineup.
I've been criticized by the old-schoolers on this site for even considering the idea that EdE might be a Tony Perez-like bat for the Reds. Well, here I go again. Encarnacion has already acknowledged that he was a little homer happy last year - a fact that is evident in his increasing fly-ball rate and decreasing line drive rate. If EdE can get back to his line drive ways of 2006, I really think he can become a 100 RBI guy with regularity. He's got a lot of similarities to Perez's offensive game in him. Hopefully his coaches can help get it out of him.
Alternative Positive Outcome: Brandon Phillips learns to lay off the low and away breaking ball, adding the much needed on base skill to his repertoire.
5. Jared Burton and Bill Bray prove that they can shut down teams in the 7th and 8th innings, solidifying the bullpen for good.
Jared Burton has already shown he can handle this role. Last season he pitched in 21 games where he came in to the game in the 8th inning or later with a score that was within 3 runs. In those 21 games, he pitched 21 innings, struck out 20 batters, and posted an ERA of 1.21. He allowed a few too many base runners though (1.35 WHIP). If he can cut those down, he'll be the shutdown guy that we need. Bray, however, did not have as much success in those situations (4.11 ERA in 15.1 IP). It's time for Bray to prove to Dusty that he's more than a LOOGY. He's got the talent to do what Burton does, now he just needs to put it together.
Alternative Positive Outcome: Josh Roenicke wins a roster spot as a 6th or 7th inning rally stopper.
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Left Field
I was with you right up to the point that you had “Jacque Jones” and “positive outcome” in the same sentence. Please Dusty, don’t subject us to CoPat version 2.0.
Also, how about Frazier getting a shot to prove himself at SS as a positive outcome? I know that probably won’t affect the big league team this season, but it could be big next year and beyond.
If Frazier at SS happens, it will be in the minors
He’s not making the big league club yet. He hasn’t played above A-ball.
And I don’t want Jacque Jones, but if he proves that he can hit righties like he did in 2005 (.814 OPS) and 2006 (.886 OPS), then I’m all for platooning him. Honestly though, I’m doubtful that he can.
"How big IS your magic wand?"
But he had laser eye surgery!
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Feb 20, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
I know Frazier isn't making the big club yet
but he’s very capable of making the jump to the majors. At least one outlet is high on his chances to produce at the big-league level….right now.
One thing I love about the Baseball Prospectus is they do PECOTA projections for minor-leaguers based on the idea of getting full playing time in the major leagues. Often, they’ll have A-ball stars with horrible projections because they aren’t nearly ready for the big leagues. This is why I was a bit stunned by their PECOTA for Frazier.
In a full season (600 at-bats),
33 doubles 3 triples 21 homers 75 RBIs
56 walks 144 Ks 8 steals
.248 avg .322 OBP .437 SLG 15.4 VORP
For a guy who hasn’t played about A-ball, those would be solid numbers. In fact, his VORP projection is 10th best in baseball of all rookie-eligible hitters, 7th best in the NL. The 6 in the NL ahead of him are:
Cameron Maybin FLA 23,5
Angel Salome MIL 21.6
Brandon Hicks ATL 18.8
Brett Wallace STL 18.1
Kyle Blanks SD 17.2
Colby Rasmus STL 15.8
While Frazier may need some time in the minors, he might not need that much to be a positive contributer. His long-term potential may not be as good as a Rasmus, Wallace or Maybin, but he’s very polished for someone who hasn’t played above Class A.
You went full retard. No one ever comes back from that. - Sgt. Osiris
by cesarhernandez on Feb 20, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I love this...
Posts like this one (this entire thread for that matter) are why RR is the first place I visit when scouring the web.
"Here's to you, Mr. Ceremonial First First Pitch Thrower Outer"
FYI
Zips does that for a lot of MiL players too, and if you ask Dan he’ll usually give you any he missed.
well 80% of the time.
4 out of 5 days he’s rocking LF. The 5th day he starts.
I know it’ll never happen, to much stress on the body, yadda yadda yadda. But how cool would that be?
EdE
will be the cleanup hitter I believe. I know Dusty has said it will be Phillips, but I believe EdE is going to take a big step forward this year and become the big run producer. I also think that Phillips will be better suited for the six hole or the slot made famous on another thread, the place only a certain few dare go to, the two hole. In the two hole,I believe his OBP will raise significantly because he won’t feel the pressure( maybe you would feel more pressure in the two hole) to drive in runs. Batting sixth, i still think some of the pressure would be off and he would be able to concentrate on hitting line drives more and worry about hitting the HR less. thus I think his power numbers will actually go up.
BP
I suspect it’s not the pressure that gets to him, but he sees himself more as a “creating HAVOC” kind of player. XBH, aggressive on the basepaths, 1st-3rd, scoring from 2nd, messing with the pitcher’s concentration with a leadoff, that kind of thing. I think being able to envision success goes a long way to actually doing it.
Easy speculation, I know, from the sideline.
Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you.
by "Red" Moskau on Feb 20, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I personally would much rather Phillips in my two hole
than in my one hole. Ouch
My life is full of ironies and metaphors- Paula Abdul
by The Crushinator on Feb 20, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
either way you're gonna be walking funny
Made from 100% recycled awesome,
by chandrathan on Feb 20, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
But with Phillips there
Most likely not walking at all!!!
My life is full of ironies and metaphors- Paula Abdul
by The Crushinator on Feb 20, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
But
Think of the “runs” it would produce.
by fourrunhomer on Feb 20, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
...I dont think this is what jmgard6 came to this site for.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
I disagree
Phillips is what we think he is, OK? He IS what we think he IS. If you want to crown him, then crown his ass.
What I mean by that is, you have to accept Phillips for the player that he is rather than thinking that he can consciously alter his approach based on his lineup position. Hitting is a “reactive” skill, where there’s a moment of recognition, and muscle memory takes over. It’s not something where you process a lot of information, like playing quarterback.
Now, that’s not meant to be a knock on Phillips. He’s a damn fine hitter for a 2B, brings a great SLG to the plate, and is a fantastic baserunner. The problem is, you have to utilize that skillset in a position that maximizes his strengths and minimizes the impact of his weaknesses (My biggest beef with Reds’ managers over the past 5 years or so is that they seem to do the opposite). So, you want him in a position to drive in runs (utilize that SLG), not be counted on as a table setter (2 hole = bad), and maximize the value of his SB’s (put him in front of some singles hitters).
In the Reds’ lineup, he should be hitting 5th. Load up Votto, Encarnacion and Bruce in front of him to give him plenty of RBI opportunities, don’t count on him to set the table, maximize the value of his SB’s in front of weaker hitters like Gonzalez and Hernandez. Ideally, you’d have one more decent OBP guy in the 5 hole, and Franchise would bat 6th.
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey
by BLee2525 on Feb 21, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
dot dot dot
*I think Homer goes to the bullpen initially but then again im really, really bullish on Owings. I like two more flamethrowers in the pen (Roenicke, Homer) to complement Burton, Bray and Koko.
*I really think Dickerson has some gas in the tank and I’m more than pleased with what Gomes brings to the table. I’d sure as hell like to see a few more spit and vinegar guys in the clubhouse. I dont want to get on the veteran presence bandwagon but I do think this team needs a couple more BALLPLAYERS!
*We say it every year…..but is this the year EE puts it all together? Actually I like him at 3B because he has the ability to play the position. My eyeballs say he has good range. Then again I’m the guy who was more than ok with FeLo defensively after watching him in person a few games…
I sure as sht hope that Arroyo is a league average innings eater this season.
*If Gonzalez comes back healthy SS just….got….interesting. He is a monster at the plate @ GABP. He’d fit nicely in the 7 hole.
*I have no idea what to expect out of the catching corps this season. None whatsoever.
"aw....c'mon. That's suck! I heard Coldplay on WARM98" obc son(after watching the band win Best Rock Grammy)
Silly bobcat,
Batting 2nd is for shortstops (and Trix are for kids).
Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you.
by "Red" Moskau on Feb 20, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting Burton stat
As much as I’ve supported Weathers, even as he was the target of much frustration, given their ages I still can’t help but be skeptical about a bullpen that relies on Weathers and Rhodes. We need some of the kids (Roenke) to be ready to step up in the season.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
I guess Wednesday was photo day

The pics are coming over the wire services.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
My man BP's got a beard like a billy goat
by Brendanukkah on Feb 20, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
the pics aren't that bad this year

Though the photographer seemed to really like to perspective distortion. A lot of the pics show the player holding the ball or bat close to the lens, making it look huge.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
then Jared Burton has hands like Andre the Giant's
"I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage." - Dusty Baker (2009) regarding Corey Patterson's relationship with his daughter
and Danny Ray
has really small feet.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
smells like cabbage?
How cool is it that Danny Ray is throwing a forkball in his pic?
And did anyone else think that Danny Ray is Anglo? Did him and Robert Manuel just switch elasticities when noone was looking?
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
I think that might be a screwball
I laid my bed and I'm going to have to sit on it. - A-Roid the Liar
by PeteyHendrix on Feb 21, 2009 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
I vote for some kind of circle change
There's action across the street. It's Snowman! Take him!
by Man Mountain on Feb 21, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Herrera's slow pitch is sometimes referred to as a screwball and sometimes as a change-up.
The two pitches do have similarities, but the wrist rotation that produces topspin on the ball is a signature of the screwgy.
I laid my bed and I'm going to have to sit on it. - A-Roid the Liar
by PeteyHendrix on Feb 22, 2009 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
Danny Ray himself says he throws a 4-seam fastball, cutter, sinker, slurve, change-up, and screwball.
by Brendanukkah on Feb 22, 2009 3:24 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe Danny Ray should talk to a Niekro...
And add a Knuckleball to that laundry list of pitches he claims to throw…
by Highlifeman21 on Feb 23, 2009 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
small shoes
"I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage." - Dusty Baker (2009) regarding Corey Patterson's relationship with his daughter
by BK on Feb 20, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
I believe that's called a "Phillip's Lens"
There's action across the street. It's Snowman! Take him!
by Man Mountain on Feb 20, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
its the joint
My millions are unconventional!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 20, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
old fart
i totally dont get the rubber bands as bracelets phenomenon.
"aw....c'mon. That's suck! I heard Coldplay on WARM98" obc son(after watching the band win Best Rock Grammy)
I'm waiting for slap bracelets to make a comeback, myself
"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST
you looking for a good way to slit your wrists?
Made from 100% recycled awesome,
by chandrathan on Feb 20, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he has
a paper route.
"I'm standing at the plate thinking, Where are my hands? Where's this, where's that? Before I know it, the pitch is there and I'm completely out of rhythm." -
-- Adam Dunn
by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Feb 20, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
he just sold his Swatch
"aw....c'mon. That's suck! I heard Coldplay on WARM98" obc son(after watching the band win Best Rock Grammy)
If Bailey and Owings fail to shine in Spring Training?
I see Walt signing Mark Mulder, rather than just give away the 5th spot.
Soy el niño destructor. I eat kids for breakfast. Roar. - Juan Francisco 'spoken with an Italian accent'
by jacob brumfield on Feb 20, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions
Masset will get the 5th spot before Mulder
He’s out of options.
I laid my bed and I'm going to have to sit on it. - A-Roid the Liar
by PeteyHendrix on Feb 20, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
DFA is a nice option
and also the bullpen
Soy el niño destructor. I eat kids for breakfast. Roar. - Juan Francisco 'spoken with an Italian accent'
by jacob brumfield on Feb 20, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Both decent options for Masset
and perhaps neither better than Mulder.
I laid my bed and I'm going to have to sit on it. - A-Roid the Liar
by PeteyHendrix on Feb 20, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
yea, i'm numb on Masset
but feel like Mulder could have a ‘comeback player of the year’ type season and on the cheap. All in all, we are squabbling over the 5th spot and not the 2-3 spots like in years past. Frankly it is weird being a Reds fan and having a solid 1-4 rotation.
Soy el niño destructor. I eat kids for breakfast. Roar. - Juan Francisco 'spoken with an Italian accent'
by jacob brumfield on Feb 20, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm no fan of Masset
except that I’d rather use the 5th rotation spot to develop a youngster than to squeeze out a 12-win season from a 1-year rent-a-vet.
I laid my bed and I'm going to have to sit on it. - A-Roid the Liar
by PeteyHendrix on Feb 20, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Why is Masset trash?
"I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage." - Dusty Baker (2009) regarding Corey Patterson's relationship with his daughter
by BK on Feb 20, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
you know what really grinds my gears
Is our left field situation should be our center field situation(dickerson/hairston) and we should have about 6 million more doll hairs to spend on a platoon partner for gomes.
we shouldnt have got weathers back when we have plenty of young arms to do an equal job for less money bringing our left fielder money up to around 10 million.
I don't think they expected Weathers to accept arbitration
I think they figured they’d get a draft pick out of him.
"How big IS your magic wand?"
Weathers, Hairston, & 2009 the year of Willy Taveras
those 3 combined = huge burned pile o cash
by Highlifeman21 on Feb 23, 2009 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Couple of rants
This year’s bullpen is going to be really good, but I think next year will be better. I don’t think there is any way Roenicke makes the pen this year.
I want so bad for Bailey to get his shit together.
BP at #4 is a joke, hopefully EE starts hot and puts a end to that shit.
Pete Rose was just an answer on Jeopardy….He had the nickname “Charlie Hustle”
Coco, Harang, Arroyo, and AGonz better be healthly.
Masset will get DFAd
If Willy T gets a .350 OBP and steals 100 bases I will eat my own dog’s shit.
I like JHJ in the LF platoon.
I don’t think the Cubs are goin to be THAT great this year. D Lee and Soriano will regress big time.
by Dave from Louisville on Feb 20, 2009 7:37 PM EST reply actions
Next year's bullpen, barring injury,
will have the exact same players except for maybe Weathers. The beauty of the 2-year contract!
"How big IS your magic wand?"
I now have new reason
to want Willy T to have a monster year. Will you video it and post it here? Or maybe you can do a live feed. I’m sure someone here can set that up so we all can watch. Maybe we can call it “One dog One cup”.
by fourrunhomer on Feb 20, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
"If Willy T gets a .350 OBP and steals 100 bases I will eat my own dog’s shit."
Those are strong words. You will be held to them….
My life is full of ironies and metaphors- Paula Abdul
by The Crushinator on Feb 21, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
wow check this out
hmmm he would have been a good pick up instead of taveras. imagine this lineup
vs rhp
1. Orlando Hudson-2B
2. Chris Dickerson-CF
3. Joey Votto-1B
4. Jay Bruce-RF
5. EE-LF
6. Brandon Phillips-SS
7. Alex Gonzales-3B
8. Ramon Hernandez-C
vs lhp
1. Orlando Hudson 2B
2. Jerry Hairston CF
3. Joey Votto 1B
4. Brandon Phillips SS
5. Jay Bruce RF
6. EE LF
7. Alex Gonzalez 3b
8. Ramon Hernandez C
talk about speed, pitching, and defense
Who's this Eelf guy batting #6 ?
BTW – please switch Bruce and Votto – Thanks
肏你祖宗十八代 - and your sister too !
why switch votto and bruce?
Don’t you want Votto on base when Bruce’s power comes up?
"How big IS your magic wand?"
I believe that Bruce will have a higher on base percentage than Votto
and hit not only homers but a lot of doubles
Votto has the stroke to become a Big Doggie type of RBI guy. 30 HR – 110 RBI
Oh it could mean one more Ab for Bruce per game and that could translate in to one more for Joey. Just speculation, I got no sabremetric info to back this thinking, but neither of these guys are that MLB experienced – I see Votto taking off this year, big time.
I want our best all round hitter in the 3 hole.
肏你祖宗十八代 - and your sister too !
agreed
at this point i think Votto is the better hitter, based on last season’s stats. Bruce surprised me by not producing more than he did. But he’s very young and has the potential to increase exponentially. I think Votto is closer to his ceiling. Its a hell of a nice problem to have, imho.
EE – 6 hole hitter. BP – 6 hole hitter. Our two offseason acquisitions are 7-8 hitters. So is AGon. And i have no idea where the LF’s hit. This lineup is one big bat away from being interesting. I wonder if the brass is going to make an in season trade for a bat.
"aw....c'mon. That's suck! I heard Coldplay on WARM98" obc son(after watching the band win Best Rock Grammy)
The line up has been one big bat away since Dunn left
I don’t think the guys they signed will do much…Jones needs to juice and the other guy Ward isn’t as good as his dad was and his dad wasn’t that big of a bat.
Lots of could haves, should haves and would haves so far that have been talked about – but no have haves.
Too bad Micah couldn’t play LF 3 days and pitch every 5th.
肏你祖宗十八代 - and your sister too !
I still say
EdE should bat 4th. And Phillips should either bat 2nd or 6th. Whoever plays LF would take the other. It would all depend on who wins out in Left or better yet who platoons. It may depend on who the opposing pitcher is.
by fourrunhomer on Feb 20, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Why...BP nor EdE have had much success at #4 historically
Lets give the kid a shot. He’s got more plate discipline than BP and is more consistent (so far) than Edwin.
I see Edwin in the 6 hole a lot this year.
肏你祖宗十八代 - and your sister too !
Im just curious what evidence Bruce has given that hes going to get on base this year
more than Votto which is quite a bit. Not that I don’t think he’ll eventually progress to that point.
My life is full of ironies and metaphors- Paula Abdul
by The Crushinator on Feb 21, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
I laid my bed and I'm going to have to sit on it. - A-Roid the Liar
by PeteyHendrix on Feb 21, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Hudson would have been a nice pickup
but I can’t see how the Reds would have done that even at his price given they are already paying BP and Gonzalez more.
"How big IS your magic wand?"
Number6
SBNation finally allows commenting in the mobile version. It’s killing me to read RR ten times a day and only get to comment once or twice a week when I’m at home. C’mon!
All I know is that they are working on it.
that’s the best I got for you.
"How big IS your magic wand?"
Its killing me that you only get to comment once or twice a week
You know if we had more Brian B’s in this world……
肏你祖宗十八代 - and your sister too !
I was replying to you Brian
I enjoy your comments and hope that you can find a way to post more, that’s all.
肏你祖宗十八代 - and your sister too !
You should have told the ungrateful bastard to blow you.
by Pops Daniels on Feb 21, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Pops don't you know that I'm trying to be less caustic and more inviting these days...
But Slyde won’t let me publish the screw the cow pic anymore…fucking censorship that what it is…I mean Alan can post photos of Bimbos with grotesque fake breasts and Man mountain can post all kinds of intellectual commentary that nobody understands, and Justin can just post….but me…..I try a little welcoming kindness and what do I get….ridiculed and censored because I don’t like Rainblow Rightwing and Woody Allen…. and Tim the fucking tool man can blow me too
You censorship Bastards will never get me…I am not an old sortie…abs like turtle shells – common I’ll take on three 4 year olds…at a time…Speaking of soft – I can hear Dusty’s cahoonas slapping on T-virus’ chin as I type…
肏你祖宗十八代 - and your sister too !
by Madville on Feb 21, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
oh what Dr. Feelgood did to people in the 50s
yeah i said it, that you were an adult in the 50s.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on Feb 21, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Mads is going soft
(TWSS)
"aw....c'mon. That's suck! I heard Coldplay on WARM98" obc son(after watching the band win Best Rock Grammy)

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