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Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Where each team stands right now

The Greatest Reds: #9

9. Vada Pinson

Played as Red Primary Position Career Rank Peak Rank Prime Rank
1958-1968 CF, RF 9 13 9
Percent Breakdown of Value Best Season Best player on Reds
Hit Field Pitch 1961 1959, 1963
79% 21% 0%
Awards/Honors as a Red Leading the League On the Reds Leaderboard
Gold Glove – 1961
All Star – 1959 (2), 1960 (2)
Runs Scored – 1959
Doubles – 1959, 1960
Plate Appearances – 1959, 1960
At Bats – 1959, 1960
Hits – 1961, 1963
Singles – 1961
Triples – 1963, 1967

-5th in career triples
-5th in career doubles
-7th in career runs scored
-10th in career RBI
-10th in career home runs

Pinsoncin_medium
via www.sportsecyclopedia.com

In the market for a sure-fire bar bet that you can spring on your fellow Reds fan? Ask him/her to name the only player who ranks in the franchise’s all-time top ten in doubles, triples, and home runs. Pinson was signed by the Reds out of high school at the age of 17. Pinson was a product of Oakland’s famous McClymonds High School, where he was teammates of Frank Robinson and Curt Flood. In fact, the Reds signed both Flood and Pinson out of high school prior to the start of the 1956 season. It was a compeition of sorts: both were talented outfielders who ultimately were to play center field in the majors. Flood won the battle, but lost the war: he made his MLB debut in that 1956 season at age 18 after having destroyed his Class B competition. Pinson, started his career one level down, but quickly made his way up as well: debuted in 1958, and handed the full time CF job in 1959, by which point Flood had been traded to the Cardinals where he had a lesser, but perhaps more impactful, career.

Pinson’s rookie season was one for the ages, leading the league in runs (131) and doubles (47), and rapping out over 200 hits. In 1961, his overall offensive production was similar, but he hit a definitive peak with the glove, recording 19 assists from center field and reaching more fly balls than most. A couple years later, he had his greatest season with the bat (with a 142 OPS+) by virtue of his .313 average, 37 doubles, 14 triples, and 22 home runs. At the end of that 1963 season, Pinson was just 25 years old, but had already had over 1,000 hits and 100 home runs. His cumulative slash line to that point was 309/355/492 (125 OPS+), and despite the low offense environment of the time Pinson’s Brock2 projection for the remainder of his career would have predicted 3,700 hits, 650 doubles and almost 400 home runs. That, obviously, would be in the category of the all-time greats. Instead, Pinson is somewhat of an afterthought in the great hitters of the 1960s. It’s not like Pinson became a bad player; he played five more seasons with the Reds after 1963, and hit for a 111 OPS+ while continuing to roam center field.

There aren’t many statistical clues for the reason for the decline, but I wonder if there was a loss of speed in 1964 for some reason (just 8 SB that year compared to an annual average of 26), and perhaps there were just enough missed infield hits or gap doubles to make a significant impact. The steals came back for the most part, but then the power started to wane, and he never really learned to take many walks. Lots of questions, few answers—although the simplest one remains: some players happen to peak early. After a 1968 season that saw Pinson hit just five homers, the Reds traded him to the Cardinals for Wayne Granger and Bobby Tolan, both of whom had brief periods of excellence in the years to follow. Pinson continued to decline, bounced around with several teams, and ended his career as a .223 hitter for the Royals in 1975 while the Big Red Machine finally emerged victorious.

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Scoreboard Stumper

Basically any scoreboard stumper dealing with the Reds, Vada Pinson is one of the answers. Just good enough career to rank highly, just enough below the radar to be a good trivia question.

by PETIE on Dec 8, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

Noodles Hahn is the other answer.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 8, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Eppa Rixey

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on Dec 8, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

bobby tolan

"Nate Silver is a genius" .... BK

by obc2 on Dec 8, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

i always seem to forget Vada Pinson (sorry Caleb)

he was well before my time and not part of the BRM. we should get more players like him.

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 8, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been very kind recently

I guess I’m getting in the holiday spirit

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Dec 8, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

rec'd for snarkyness

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 8, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I remmber Vapa Pinson vividly

He was, to me as a kid, the greatest Center Fielder of all time. My friends and I would argue over Mantle vs Pinson..Mantle the HR hitter who was hurt a lot and Pinson the great fielder and a pretty decent hitter as well.

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 8, 2009 6:36 PM EST reply actions  

respect your elders

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 8, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey obc...

My Espn fantasy football team won its game last Sunday but I have not been given credit for the wi..whats the deal – Comish

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 8, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Vada

I thought he might come in one or two spots higher but was pretty confident he’d be in the top ten. I always have wondered what robbed him of his early promise. I don’t know how he was on conditioning and training but when he left the Reds he was only 29 so he really should have had several really good years left.

I have really enjoyed this series, well done riverfront76!!

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Caleb on Dec 8, 2009 7:29 PM EST reply actions  

How was Vada Pinson not Rookie of the Year?

One of the most ridiculous decisions in baseball history was Willie McCovey getting the Rookie of the Year over Vada Pinson. Look at the stats and tell me, someone please, how anyone objectively could take willie over vada. I just don’t get it. Does anyone have an explanation?

by Big Red Machine on Dec 9, 2009 6:58 PM EST reply actions  

why pinson was not named rookie of the year in 1959

Vada did not win rookie of the year in 1959 because he was disqualified by having more than 90 ABs in 1958, That was the limit then, now it’s higher. He had just barely more than 90. In terms of recognition, he had terrible luck his whole career.

Michael G. Burke

by pinson343 on Dec 21, 2009 3:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Vada Pinson - Greeat Choice for Number 9

Vada Pinson was perhaps the most graceful player I’ve ever seen, with great speed until leg injuries started bothering him in 1968 (or perhaps sooner, as suggested above). Early in his career, he was clocked going from home to first in 3.3 seconds. He was a brilliant and underrated defensive CFer. From 1959 thru 1965, he was a Hall of Fame player. He had more than 200 hits 4 times in those 7 seasons. He was one of the first 20/20 HR/SB players, which he did 5 times. He batted .343 in the Reds pennant winning season of 1961.

He was less productive after his buddy Frank Robinson was traded following the ’65 season. Then came the leg problems. He was a better player in his AL years than the writeup suggests.

Only Willie Mays has more career doubles, triples, HRs, and SBs.

He has the most career hits of any eligible player not in the Hall of Fame. Bill James rates him as the best CFer not in the HoF.

Michael G. Burke

by pinson343 on Dec 21, 2009 3:23 AM EST reply actions  

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