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Around SBN: Africa Cup Of Nations Semifinal: Black Stars Ripe For Upset?

I want Jose Reyes


Simple enough, no? 

 

So we're spoiled a bit.  Grew up with historic production from a series of positions that never used to produce.  Got accustomed to disproportionate numbers from areas that just weren't put up by other teams.  Know what I'm talking about yet?

 

I'm talking about the Reds of yore, the Johnny Benches, Joe Morgans, Davey Concepcions, and Barry Larkins of our youths (or in Madville's case, of our 40's.)  For the non-observer, thats a Catcher, 2nd Basemen, and 35 years worth of defensive AND offensive stellar SS play from positions that have, in both the past and today, been utilized by teams as defensive filler and 2nd/7th/8th hole batters.  Want more proof?  Look at the current market for these types of players in the post-PED era.  The Reds certainly are.

 

Finding a useful SS or useful catcher is impossible these days, and the Reds have been clamoring for some for years now.  Checking every single metric will prove my point.  Last year, among MLB catchers with just 300 PAs, there were exactly 7 (7!) who posted OPS over .800.  The SS situation is much, much murkier.  Under the same set of qualifiers, only 5 SS posted OPS over .800.  5.  Out of 30.  That's terrible.

 

Not one of those (last year) is Jose Reyes, Met star, leadoff man, SS extraordinaire.  He, along with Beltran, Delgado, Santana, Larry, Moe, and Curly all were hurt last year, stripping he and they from a years worth of production.  I think we can, and should trade for him.  Hear me out.

 

The Mets built Mammoth Cave as their stadium, and even David Wright couldn't hit balls out of that place, and they need SP.  We have a pricey workhorse of a SP who is prone to giving up flyballs and dingers in our kiddie pool of a park who'd appreciate facing #2/3 starters and not seeing every pop up leave the yard.  They have an overpriced much maligned 2B who most of NY has tried to kidnap and ship off, and we have a 2B with an escalating salary, bad peripherals, and attitude that NY desires.  Top that off with the fact that Slyde started 29 games at 1B for them last year, and they'd likely appreciate Yonder Alonso as their answer to post-Delgado 1B duty.

 

In other words, I send Harang/Phillips/Alonso to the Mets and get Jose Reyes and  "take" Luis Castillo in return (he hit .300, OBP'd .390, bats 2nd and has 3 Gold Gloves and they want nothing to do with him!). Plug the two of them in the top of the order, sign Gomes and bat him cleanup, and we're in business now and moving forward.  You guys/Poodle can fill in the gaps with the cash considerations, as there are certainly a lot of $$ swapping hands (and we might have to include Cozart and a baby Met SP in there as well), but I don't find that out of the question at all.  Omar Minaya is a wheeler-dealer, and the fact that Krivdog just signed on with them means he's awfully familiar with some of our best assets (and his contracts!).  They need a shake up, we need a shake up, it's like a freshman year sorority mixer. 

 

Oh yeah, disapprove (disprove?) below.  And LeBron James will be in Rupp for the UK/UNC game to see me and Ashley Judd today.  Exciting!

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it may sound weird

but i think you are giving up too much. i think a swap of Harang/Phillips for Reyes/Castillo is a more reasonable deal. Reyes’ value matches up with Phillips, as Reyes is the better player, but is coming off a big injury. he also has 1 year left on his deal compared to Phillips’ 2 years. i think that comes close to equalizing their values.

i think Harang’s value matches alright with Castillo’s. Castillo is probably the more valuable asset, as he’s making 12mil over the next 2 years as opposed to Harang’s 12.5 for one year.

the Mets would need a replacement SS, so i would send them Cozart instead of Alonso. i think Alonso would be too much to give up in this deal.

these kinds of deals are always fun to dream up. the Reds arent going to make a big splash this offseason, but if they did it would have to be a deal like this one.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 5, 2009 10:40 AM EST reply actions  

agree'd on the Alonso piece

Too big a chip— Cozart makes more sense…

Agree’d, too, that it’s too unconventional for the Reds

"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"

by "Red" Moskau on Dec 5, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The Reds would never do it

if only because of the PR backlash sure to come from trading your most popular player.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 6, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Phillips is the most popular player?

I thought Jo-eh had that title

If Phillips is the main piece in a deal for Reyes, you have to do that deal.

I’m leery about trading Harang, as I’d rather give the Mets Arroyo.

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 6, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

BP got the largest ovation for a current player at Redsfest

second largest: Adam Rosales and I wish I was exaggerating.

Also, for some reason, I couldn’t any Jo-eh gear in the pro shop, but there was lots of BP and Bruce stuff. Also, for some stupid reason, BP was named the team MVP for the 2009 season.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

There were definitely Votto shirts in the pro shop

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on Dec 6, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess I meant for kids

I left that part out

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

nope, just BP and Bruce

I guess I noticed it in particular because I tried to get a Votto shirt for my kid at the park last summer and all they had were BP and Bruce shirts. They told me they were just out of Votto shirts. I figured they would have at least gotten some Votto shirts by now.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope.

They only come in sizes up to Danny’s.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 7, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

In all fairness, the unwashed masses are not remotely smart

In their defense, I guess most popular doesn’t have to be the best player on the team, but in a perfect world they should be one and the same.

Jo-eh is our best player, and should be our most popular, but maybe Cincinnati fans just don’t like Canadians?

Maybe they just like scrappy infielders that don’t play 1B?

Or, maybe they just like overrated players.

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 6, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Watching BP work the crowd this weekend

He deserves to be a fan favorite. Dude never missed an opportunity to give high fives to a kid or flash a smile to someone who was yelling his name. He deserves to be loved by the fans for that – plus, he’s a pretty good player too.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Dec 7, 2009 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

He's much more outgoing and friendly than Joey.

Don’t get me wrong, Joey’s my favorite player (as a left handed hitting first-baseman, he HAS to be) but I can see why Cincy loves them some BP. He looks like the guy you want on your office softball team. He enjoys playing, he enjoys joking around, and he appears like he loves the city. Joey’s great, and a nice enough guy, but he’s not nearly the personality.

Just my opinion.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 7, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Cincinnati got Rid of Frank Robinson adn they got rid Eric davis

Dropping Brandon (he’s black, ssshhh) Phillips will be done without so much as a look in rear view mirror. He is just too uppity.

I like a lot of things about Cincinnati..but there is no question that covert racism is deeply ingrained in the fabric of many of its citizenry…I just heard a usually very nice guy that I work with tell me that he wasn’t surprised that Tiger Woods was having affairs “After all” he said calmly “you know that it is going to happen with those people, it is in their blood” ….direct quote.
My response was…“You mean Asians?”
He didn’t find my reply funny or enlightening, just shook his head as though I were an idiot and walked away.

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 8, 2009 2:59 AM EST up reply actions  

You'll know its really bad

if you hear someone refer to his kid as a “quadroon.”

by ol Pete on Dec 8, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

No but the woman down the street named her baby

Quadroona T’Elisha Carroll…really

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 8, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

almost

my pal has a female client named: Sugar Dick (not a stage name that’s what her momma named her at birth)

"Nate Silver is a genius" .... BK

by obc2 on Dec 8, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

And I was looked at askance for 'coon dick'

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 8, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

you seem to forget

last time we resigned phillips, he didnt care about the money. He wanted it to be over as quickly as possible and wanted his agent to take care of it. All he wanted was to stay here

"strikeouts are a lot sexier than groundouts"

by smitty3 on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

If he plays it such that it is all about the money

then no, he won’t be a fan favorite for long. Right now though, he says the right things in the media (for the most part) and he works the crowd at Redsfest and before games. He’s doing all of the right things to kiss up to the fans, that’s for sure.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Dec 8, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Reyes

Is good and all, but there’s no way this will happen. The Reds need a player who can come under team control for a long time. Reyes is 26 going on 27, so his salary demands are gonna increase a lot. The Mets don’t care about prospects, so you would have to offer them MLB ready talent. All in all, this seems too costly for a small-mid market team such as the Reds. Plus, Reyes detracts from the clubhouse. He’s a total headcase and has been known to throw temper tantrums.

The Reds are trying to play with this team and if they aren’t contending by the end of the first half, they will trade away the team. In which case, they are going to have a team of basically all prospects. Votto, bruce, and stubbs will be the only guys left from the original team if this happens.

by fifawcs on Dec 5, 2009 11:46 AM EST reply actions  

Reyes IS a headcase

I suppose, but it doesn’t bother me (oddly). For all his flaws, Dusty is at his finest in dealing with talented headcases….z

"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"

by "Red" Moskau on Dec 5, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

i wouldn't trade for reyes

especially not giving up Harang, BP and Alonso. he’d just wind up leaving via free agency. bottom line, the reds have to sign and develop prospects to be competitive. they could trade those three fellas individually for more bodies which, imho, is the way this team has to operate.

"Nate Silver is a genius" .... BK

by obc2 on Dec 5, 2009 9:04 PM EST reply actions  

Reyes is not an option...

On the other hand I am thinking of taking up the sport of surfing…I want Steph Gilore on my team

amd she plays the guitar… just like Bronson

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 6, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

i'll take her over Jose Reyes...

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 9, 2009 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey now you are engaged!!!

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 9, 2009 5:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I like this trade. Come 2011, when his "escalating salary demads" really kick in, the

reds could sign him to an extension and have a two year core of Stubbs, Votto, Frazier, Reyes, Bruce, Volquez, Cueto, Homer and a decent bullpen.

It would never happen, because Omar doesn’t get paid to trade names.

by timb116 on Dec 6, 2009 4:13 PM EST reply actions  

Why not Jeter or Pujols

or Mauer.

There is NO WAY ON EARTH THIS EVER BECOMES CLOSE TO A REALITY.

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 6, 2009 9:59 PM EST reply actions  

Reyes isn't at their level in performance or popularity

I could easily see the Mets trading him this winter. Probably not to the Reds, but if you think he’s unmovable you’re mistaken.

by ken on Dec 7, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he's become much less popular 'round here after this season.

This time last year I couldn’t see it, but with the last two years this team (Mets) has had, I think they’d do it and the fans wouldn’t mind, as long as they got somebody good back.

I will say this. If BP became a Met, Keith Hernandez’s head WILL explode. He hates him some BP.

If I hear the word 'perky' again, I'll puke

by nycredsfan on Dec 7, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

why's that?

did BP spit on him or something?

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 7, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Almost worth the trade just to see KH's head blow blow up...

but only if its in HD.

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 7, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

BP hit Keith's wife before Keith did

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 8, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I Want JOSE REYES

this is nice….Jose is one of the best and absolutely most exiting players in baseball today..of course, he looks different and smiles too much for the new york media ( AND some fans too,) and
has too much fun; likes to intermingle with the fans when not playing..doing such things as throwing signed baseballs to kids near the dugout!!!! I’d like to see him in cincy too….

by 1969met on Dec 7, 2009 10:09 PM EST reply actions  

Hmmmm This sounds kinda fishy to me..

no offense of course to 1969met….still…

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 7, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting read

Here.

1. The Mets don’t hate Castillo; in fact, they like him quite a bit. However, they think a change is needed.

2. That being said, “(i)n trying to find the right mix of players, the Mets are not going to deal David Wright or Jose Reyes or Carlos Beltran.”

3. While he makes contact more often and can take a walk, Castillo needed 82 more AB than Taveras to collect 2 more XBH, leading to a ISO of .044.

4. Using Dewan’s +/- system, Castillo, despite the Gold Gloves, is Derek Jeter-bad at defense (ironic, isn’t it?). Fangraphs (using UZR) agrees, at least over the last 2 years.

Castillo isn’t worth the money or the players to the Reds; Reyes isn’t available.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Dec 8, 2009 9:18 AM EST reply actions  

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