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The Greatest Reds: #12 - #11

12. George Foster

Played as Red Primary Position Career Rank Peak Rank Prime Rank
1971-1981 LF, CF, RF 13 12 10
Percent Breakdown of Value Best Season Best player on Reds
Hit Field Pitch 1977 1977, 1978, 1981
88% 12% 0%
Awards/Honors as a Red Leading the League On the Reds Leaderboard
Most Valuable Player – 1977
All Star MVP – 1976
Silver Slugger – 1981
All Star – 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1981
Runs Batted In – 1976, 1977, 1978
OPS – 1977
Runs Scored – 1977
Slugging Percentage – 1977
Home Runs – 1977, 1978
Total Bases – 1977
Extra Base Hits – 1977
At Bat / Home Run ratio – 1977, 1978

-3rd in career slugging percentage
-6th in career OPS+
-6th in career home runs
-9th in career RBI
-15th in career runs scored

Ob-ek527_themac_g_20090909172935_medium
via s.wsj.net

George Foster, who ended up with nearly 350 home runs for his career (a mark which would have been a virtual certainty were it not for the 1981 strike), had but 27 career round trippers as he hit age 26. In fact, through his age 26 season, Foster was statistically most similar to…Candy Maldonado (ignore the fact that Maldonado’s career had not yet begun, please). Three years later, Foster’s numbers were more in line with Pops Stargell. Part of this was due to opportunity—Foster had been blocked by some pretty impressive names in the early part of his career: Bobby Bonds, Bobby Tolan, Pete Rose—but through the 1974 season, Foster’s career slugging percentage was just .394. Then, in 1975, Foster was played with increasing regularity and SOMETHING HAPPENED, and he was one of the game’s most devastating power hitters. What seems unusual is that even a couple years back (1973), Foster spent most of the year in AAA-ball, and wasn’t hitting for significant power there either (15 HR, .409 slugging percentage). Now, placed in the starting lineup of an offensive juggernaut, his slugging percentage at the MLB level jumped to .518, then .530, then blew completely off the charts in 1977 (.631). A couple of interesting notes on Foster’s career: 1) 1977 was the only season he scored at least 100 runs (and he led the league that year). He had some other top-10 finishes in this category, so perhaps it’s more a function of run-scoring environment, but this surprised me for some reason; 2) For all the power, his career high in walks was just 75, and he placed in the NL top-10 in this stat just twice. He was, however, a prodigious free-swinger, and routinely topped 120 K’s in a year; 3) In 76 post-season at-bats, Foster had but 5 extra base hits; 4) In a strike-shortened 1981, Foster had what was arguably his 2nd best year: 22 HR, 90 RBI, and a 150 OPS+ in just 108 games. And after that year, he was traded to the Mets for Greg Harris, Jim Kern, and Alex Trevino, who (in order): went on to have a pretty interesting career as a reliever, but not until leaving Cincy; had one decent season with the Reds, but was otherwise done; and had an OK career as a backup catcher, but was downright terrible in his 2+ seasons with the Reds. And, still, the trade didn’t turn out that bad. Foster signed a mammoth contract with the Mets that ultimately made him the highest paid player by 1986, but during his New York tenure, the bottom fell out of his batting average, the power was mediocre, and the defense got pretty bad. In other words, the greatness shut off almost as quickly as it turned on, but it fortunately lined up nicely with a bunch of other great hitters.

Star-divide

11. Bucky Walters

Played as Red Primary Position Career Rank Peak Rank Prime Rank
1938-1948 SP 12 4 8
Percent Breakdown of Value Best Season Best player on Reds
Hit Field Pitch 1939 1939, 1940, 1941, 1944
5% 0% 95%
Awards/Honors as a Red Leading the League On the Reds Leaderboard
Most Valuable Player – 1939
Triple Crown – 1939
All Star – 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1944
ERA+ – 1939, 1940
ERA – 1939, 1940
Wins – 1939, 1940, 1944
WHIP – 1939, 1940
Strikeouts – 1939
Hits Per Inning – 1939, 1940, 1944
Innings Pitched – 1939, 1940, 1941
Complete Games – 1939, 1940, 1941
Games Started – 1939

-1st in career shutouts
-4th in career wins
-5th in career innings pitched
-8th in career ERA+
-15th in career strikeouts

Bucky-walters_medium
via lesterslegends.com

Walters made his MLB debut in 1931 as a third baseman for the Braves. It was a September audition, and it did not go well. The following year a similar call-up was equally bad—in two cups of coffee he hit less than .200, something that presumably did not endear him to management. He was traded to a minor league club, hit really well, was purchased by the Red Sox…and was a marginal hitter at best. Purchased by the Phillies during the 1934 season, Walters remained a below average 3rd baseman, but the team gave him a couple of opportunities to pitch, and he did well, allowing just one earned run in seven innings. Over the next 3+ seasons, Walters was transformed into a full-time pitcher, and he was mediocre, sporting a 38-53 record and a 98 ERA+ for the Phils. The Reds traded for Walters—now 29 years of age and completely unaccomplished—sending a 33 year old catcher, a below average pitcher, and $50K cash in exchange. True to form, Walters finished his season with the Reds with a 98 ERA+. How to explain, then, what happened next: a triple crown season (led the league in wins, strikeouts, and ERA) en route to an MVP award and a spot in the World Series. And finally finding his missing hitting stroke, he contributed a .325 batting average to the cause as well. He missed repeating the triple crown feat by 22 strikeouts the following season. This two-year, out-of-nowhere, peak showed a cumulative record of 49-21 and a 2.38 ERA (161 ERA+) over 624 innings. The overnight sensation saved what was perhaps his best performance for the 1940 World Series. Given the ball in games 2 and 6, Walters in both instances took the mound with his team down by a game in the Series. He threw a complete game three-hitter in game 2 and a complete game shutout in game 6—a game in which he helped his own cause with a solo home run. Thereafter, Walters was never quite the same pitcher (how could he be?), but was definitely above-average, and the war years of 1944-45 were certainly kind to his stats (he finished 5th in 1944’s MVP vote). Despite the late start to Walters’s pitching career, he finished with over 3100 innings and 198 victories (160 of which were with the Reds).

The Top 15 Starting Pitchers in Reds history

  1. Bucky Walters
  2. Dolf Luque
  3. Eppa Rixey
  4. Frank Dwyer
  5. Noodles Hahn
  6. Paul Derringer
  7. Red Lucas
  8. Pete Donohue
  9. Bob Ewing
  10. Jim Maloney
  11. Billy Rhines
  12. Jose Rijo
  13. Tony Mullane
  14. Ted Breitenstein
  15. Joe Nuxhall

0 recs  |  Comment 110 comments |

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That's weird

I never would have expected that Rolando Roomes would have ranked ahead of George Foster, but it looks like that’s what’s going to happen.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Dec 4, 2009 12:10 PM EST reply actions  

Very droll

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 4, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

ease off

rolando roomes and adam rosales are in my pack, holmes.

"Nate Silver is a genius" .... BK

by obc2 on Dec 4, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

47th

He was good. Not Bucky Walters good, but he was good.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Too bad he blew his arm out

after toiling for some really bad Reds teams. Awesome peak, tho.

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

forced him into that 4-man rotation…..he couldn’t do it.

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Once again

the entire list is available in the lower left side bar of the main page.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Dec 4, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

ahhh

i was reading the top 15 list that RF76 put at the bottom of the post.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 4, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

George Foster

was my favorite Red. Got a black bat and tried to mimic his batting stance….yeah that didn’t work out well for me.

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

And I just heard the actual World Cup draw

isn’t until 2:45….so why in the heck does ESPN2 have 2 1/2 hours of filler until then?

/praying to be drawn with South Africa

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

My bad....it's 12:45

not 2:45.

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

South Africa's in Group A

Stay tuned! Further updates as events warrant.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you seen her appearance

on Zack Galifianakis’ Between Two Ferns?

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 4, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

And if the U.S. doesn't get South Africa

It’s OK. Don’t need to win the group….just finish second. I hope that second Euro team isn’t one of the top ones. I’m just worried about getting stuck with France or Portugal and one of the better African teams.

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

right now there's a lot of dancing and... um... touching.

Supposedly dancing. I just see a lot of boob and butt grabbing.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I dug the bald chick

in the white dress. Good stuff! And now the “drawmaster” just kissed on Charlize

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The tension is incredible!

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm, I would settle for England

as a top seed in the U.S. group. They suck.

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:57 PM EST reply actions  

Normally, yes

They’ve been pretty good this past year though.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Just not Spain... please.

Please…

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd want Italy

Though we might have to kill that traitor Rossi.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

did the Aussies not make it this time?

i always root for the Socceroos. i imagine a kangaroo wearing a jersey and no pants bouncing around with a soccer ball in it’s pouch. it’s so cute it always make me laugh!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 4, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

They're in. Pot 2, same as the US

So we won’t be in the same group as Australia. New Zealand is also in. Their team name is the All-Whites. So, so racist.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

All-Blacks, All-Whites

nice…

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Look, New Zealand isn't very creative

They ripped off their country name from old Zealand. They ripped off their flag from Australia. Their national teams are all one color (and not even really colors, at that). What a bunch of sheep!

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

They still suck

Compared to most of those other top seeds.

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't want group G or H

Brazil and Spain

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

D either.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Cmon group A

Cmon U.S!

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

Crap!

The Mexicans got Group A!

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Shit

Mexico gets Group A

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

as an aside

thanks guys for posting this stuff here. i cant find a good live feed for it here at work because in internet sucks.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 4, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

The Socceroos are in D w/ Germany

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate soccer but LOVE the word socceroos

Although it does give me images of ’nukkah kicking a ball around the house in only his Spider-Man undies. Ew.

"Santa Claus doesn't use Craigslist." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Dec 4, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes!

U.S. gets England!

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions  

1776! 1812! 2010!

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

US vs. England

Shit. I don’t think we can beat them — except in 1775 and 1812!

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

I'll take it

Now we just hope that we don’t get France or Portugal in our group

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Welcome back after 44 years, N. Korea!

 You get to play Brazil!

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

Group G

Brazil
North Korea

That should be a tightly fought contest.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

Group A

South Africa
Mexico
Nigeria

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:15 PM EST reply actions  

Nope... Nigeria's in B.

Can’t have 2 African teams in the same group.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Good

avoided cote d’ivorie

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions  

Algeria!

Sweet!

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions  

wow

how does Mexico get such a soft draw?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 4, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Mostly because the host nation gets a soft group

No host nation has ever failed to make it out of group play. But it happens that this host nation has a pretty damn shitty team. Mexico just got the fantastic luck to be drawn into their group.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Suck on that, Mexico.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much

The countries are divided into four pots. One pot for the seeded teams, and the rest are split up by region. No group can have more than one team per region, except for Europe, and they get a maximum of two per region.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully that group

will get balanced out by France or Portugal

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope Mexico gets France

See how they deal with the Hand of Henry.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Pardon me, but

What the fuck does this have to do with George Foster and/or Bucky Walters?

Seriously. Create a fanpost or something.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Dec 4, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions  

My bad

I was going to, but then I thought only BK and I would have interest. And then I let this snowball. Sorry sid. Really.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't apologize to me

Apologize to riverfront. He obviously put alot of work into this project, and all you guys can do is talk about a tournament draw to an entirely different sport – 80+ posts so far.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Dec 4, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

My first foul ball

came off the bat of George Foster…It plopped right into my grandpa’s lap. Gave me the ball!

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

We saw George at Redsfest last year

Seemed like a REALLY nice guy.

"Santa Claus doesn't use Craigslist." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Dec 4, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok...Group C coming up

No Portugal please

My fantasy football team this year? Lippincott's Shorts

by cesarhernandez on Dec 4, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

Slovenia

Ok, now it’s looking like we can make it out of our group!

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

OK everyone, I'm gonna make up a FanShot with the groups

Let’s move all soccer talk over there, if you want to continue.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions  

Sorry, riverfront.

We do appreciate all your work. And I’m constantly surprised by how many good Reds I’ve missed on this journey. Looking forward to how the Top 10 shake out.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:29 PM EST reply actions  

No worries

I’m a USMNT fan as well, and didn’t take offense at the wandering comments…

by riverfront76 on Dec 4, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Wandering is kind of the nature of this site

For every great conversation like in the Jocketty thread, there’s at least five wildly off-topic ones like this. Again, this series you’re doing on the 100 greatest Reds is one of the best things that’s been on this site in a long time. Kudos.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 4, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya know what sucks?

The Reds have won 3 World Series and lost 2 others since I was old enough to follow them; one of those teams is among the 5 best baseball teams of all time. They’ve won 52% of their games in that time, with more winning seasons (21) than losers (18, with one .500 season).

In those 40 seasons, a third of the time this team has been in Major League Baseball, with all of that success, I watched one of the top 15 pitchers in team history. One. And he’s only #12.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Dec 4, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

I was almost 7 when the Reds won the 1990 series.

which may explain why I thought, until I was almost 16, Jose Rijo was the best pitcher ever to play for the Reds.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 4, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Lord

I’m old.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Dec 4, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i was just thinking that about myself

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Caleb on Dec 4, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

George Foster has been and will always be in my top 5 fav Reds ever.

I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 4, 2009 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

worst comments ever

i was expecting a ton of good baseball talk upon returning home after shattering my blackberry. failhorn.

"Nate Silver is a genius" .... BK

by obc2 on Dec 4, 2009 11:50 PM EST reply actions  

BTW obc, and anyone else who is interested

The final installment of Men and Their Balls is now published in Sompething for anroidmachinehead

I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 5, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Walters is a fascinating guy

His grandson runs a website that discusses Bucky’s career. Among some of the trivia: Walters recorded the first televised win (August 26th, 1939) and once stole home (April 20th,1946). The grandson also says that Walters “umpired a major league game (July 10th, 1947) as a player.” Sounds like a Pete Rose wet dream.

Eric Seidman of THT wrote a long article about Walters last year that’s worth a read. Apparently Commissioner Landis nixed the Walters trade to Cincy at first but it was eventually approved – in between the Vander Meer no-no’s. Walters also started the game that eventually resulted in Willard Hershberger’s suicide (I believe the only player in-season suicide in MLB history).

On July 31, Bucky had a 4-1 lead against New York, in the ninth, with two outs, when the game was blown. Despite getting two strikes on four consecutive batters he surrendered two two-run homers to Harry Danning and Burgess Whitehead. Though "just another game" at the time, it proved to be much more meaningful no more than one month later. In blaming himself for calling the wrong pitches, backup catcher Willard Hershberger slit his throat on Aug. 3. Devastated, Bucky never spoke of this, though it was evident he never truly recovered from its impact, even after his career had ended.

Seidman is supposedly writing a book about Walters as well.

by ken on Dec 5, 2009 1:27 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I'd never heard of this...

That’s tragic.

And I’m fascinated by the circumstances that led to Walters umpiring a major league game. Good work, kenny!

(not to ignore your work, riverfront. this has been SO much fun— until the kids on this site say they never heard of a pitcher before Rijo)

"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"

by "Red" Moskau on Dec 5, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Roid boy!

Seriously, if Foster’s turnaround had happened in 1998, we would have called him Sammy Sosa.

It means one of two things:
1) Guys were ‘roiding back then too. Don’t know if they had the technology or not for that.
2) Sometimes, guys just get better, even when they aren’t on the juice. Which is bad news for guys who just get better now, because no one will believe they aren’t on the juice.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 5, 2009 1:29 AM EST reply actions  

I refuse to beliee that George Foster would have been on HGH or any other such substance.

If ever there was (is) a guy who is true to fairness and following the rules..its George.
Foster is a gentle man who grew up in San Francisco (Oakland?) and took care of his single mom. Read his biography it is amazing.

I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 5, 2009 8:16 AM EST up reply actions  

you are most likely entirely correct

i think the interesting thing is that back in the pre-steroid days, some players just “had the light bulb go on” and transformed into something different, from one season to the next. Not very often, but sometimes.

Today, EVERY time that happens, the strong suspicion will be that it is chemically induced. And, if the above is true, for some of those guys, it really isn’t. But no one will believe that.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 7, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Many of the Steelers from the 70's

have admitted to using steroids. So, when were the “pre-steroid days”?

The man who will one day be President is, at this moment, lying in his cradle, trying to find some strategic way to get his big toe in his mouth.

-Mark Twain

by poojols on Dec 7, 2009 2:46 AM EST reply actions  

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