The Greatest Reds: #3

by riverfront76 on Dec 16, 2009 12:00 PM EST in History/Hall of Fame

3. Joe Morgan

Played as Red	Primary Position	Career Rank	Peak Rank	Prime Rank
1972-1979	2B	7	1	1
Percent Breakdown of Value			Best Season	Best player on Reds
Hit	Field	Pitch	1975	1973, 1974, 1975, 1976
83%	17%	0%	1975	1973, 1974, 1975, 1976
Awards/Honors as a Red	Leading the League		On the Reds Leaderboard
Inducted to Hall of Fame – 1990 Most Valuable Player – 1975, 1976 TSN Player of Year – 1975, 1976 All Star MVP – 1972 Gold Glove – 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977 All Star – 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979	On Base Percentage – 1972, 1974, 1975, 1976 Runs Scored – 1972 Walks – 1972, 1975 OPS+ – 1975, 1976 OPS – 1975, 1976 Slugging Percentage – 1976 Sacrifice Flies – 1976		-2nd in career stolen bases -3rd in career OPS+ -5th in career walks -10th in career runs scored -13th in career home runs

via members.socket.net

Of the 10 best individual seasons by a Reds player since the advent of the live-ball era, five of them belong to Joe Morgan (the ’72-’76 years). Since the "prime" rank is used to describe how good a player was over his best five consecutive seasons, a #1 ranking for Morgan in that category still probably understates his greatness over that stretch (Morgan’s prime score is 22% higher than the #2 guy). Upon being traded to the Reds after the 1971 season, Morgan had already turned 28 years of age, but was probably seen as an underwhelming acquisition: he had only barely topped a .400 slugging percentage in three distinct seasons, had relatively low batting averages, and had only made two all-star teams. This was worth giving up Lee May? Credit the Reds for taking the damaging effects of the Astrodome into account, however, as Morgan had a very respectable 121 OPS+ to that point of his career. Still, I have a hard time believing that the Reds’ brass had any idea just how good a player they were getting.

Words can’t possibly describe this magnificent 5-year stretch, so let’s just lay out the numbers. Remember that this is coming from a 5’7", slick-fielding 2nd baseman… 1972: 292/417/435 (149 OPS+), 122 runs, 73 RBI, 58 SB, 115 BB, 44 K. 1973: 290/406/493 (154 OPS+), 116 runs, 82 RBI, 67 SB, 111 BB, 61 K. 1974: 293/427/494 (159 OPS+), 107 runs, 67 RBI, 58 SB, 120 BB, 69 K. 1975: 327/466/508 (169 OPS+), 107 runs, 94 RBI, 67 SB, 132 BB, 52 K. 1976: 320/444/576 (187 OPS+), 113 runs, 111 RBI, 60 SB, 114 BB, 41 K. Strangely, he was never that good a postseason performer (lifetime postseason OPS of 671), but that’s pretty much the only transgression., although if he had hit at all in the ’72 World Series, the Reds might have won (Morgan had only one hit in the four losses to the A’s, all of which were one-run losses).

Morgan had a really good 1977 season, albeit not quite at the level of the previous five years, then fell down to the status of merely good, with OPS+’s of 105 and 107 in 1978 and ’79, respectively, and Morgan was granted free agency after the 1979 season—leaving the Reds with Junior Kennedy and Ron Oester to man his vacated position as he signed with the Astros. In terms of the brightest star ever to grace Cincy’s ballfields, Morgan is a strong #1 with a cushion—and we’re unlikely to see anything like it in Redsland again. His final numbers for his Reds tenure: just under 5000 plate appearances, over 400 stolen bases, 147 OPS+, 5 Gold Glove awards.

The Top 15 Second Basemen in Reds history

1          Joe Morgan
2          Bid McPhee
3          Lonny Frey
4          Miller Huggins
5          Johnny Temple
6          Ron Oester
7          Hughie Critz
8          Brandon Phillips*
9          Bret Boone
10        Dick Egan
11        Sam Bohne
12        Tommy Helms
13        Pokey Reese
14        Morrie Rath
15        Tony Cuccinello
*active

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Comments

Hard to believe that Joe is above Bench

I guess Bench was with the Reds a long long time. Although he was not the player that Joe was, Bench did change the position of catching (although if he hadn’t there were plenty of others on the way up who could have).

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 16, 2009 12:35 PM EST reply actions

Who are these "plenty of others"?

Carlton Fisk? Thurman Munson if he hadn’t died too soon?

I don’t think Darrell Porter, Bob Boone or Ted Simmons were anywhere near that level.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Dec 16, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions

Bench

This thread isn’t about Bench yet but he’s on the agenda. I think most folks would say Randy Hundley was “close” to being as good as JB behind the plate. Nobody else compares as a catcher.

by johnu1 on Dec 16, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions

As Sparky Anderson once said,

“I don’t want to embarrass anyone by comparing him to Johnny Bench.”

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 16, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions

Most folks as in in most folks with the last name "Hundley?"

by Brian B on Dec 17, 2009 8:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

nice

No great surprise except for Pokey Reese being 13th on the list.

I’d have put him MUCH higher.

by johnu1 on Dec 16, 2009 1:15 PM EST reply actions

How good was Morgan as a Red?

That 5 year peak really stuck out, so I went to baseball-projection.com and poked around at the all-timest, inner-circlest of the great hitters. This is what I came up with.

Bonds’ peak was about a win/year better; Willams’ was less than half that; Wagner and Mays were pretty equal. That Ruth guy had 5 different 5-year spans better, and his 13 year average was better than anyone else’s 5 year peak except for Bonds; I hear he was pretty good. To give you youngin’s some perspective, I added ARod’s and APoo’s careers; neither have yet had a 5-year run within a win a year of Morgan’s.

Still, we were awfully spoiled, and that’s probably why Reds fans will always argue that Morgan was the best 2nd baseman ever – no 2B (and very, very few others) ever played as well as he did here.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Dec 16, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

dude

where my Hornsby at? Gotta see how Little Joe’s best stacks up against Rajah’s best.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 16, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions

Good catch

Hornsby had two peaks equal to Morgan’s, starting in ’20 and ’21.

Doc is edited to add him.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Dec 16, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions

1976 Season

I don’t know how many other players have done it. In 1976, Morgan had to have been one of the first players to ever finish in the top 5 in the NL in batting average, home runs, RBI, walks, and stolen bases.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Dec 16, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions

It's been done before

I just spot-checked some of the usual suspects. Willie Mays and Honus Wagner didn’t but:

Chuck Klein 1932
Hank Aaron 1963

The inability to get up there in walks was what sunk several notable players who easily did the other four categories multiple times.

by LooseCannon on Dec 16, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks for the Info

I knew it had to be rare. As far as we know, only 3 National Leaguers have done it. Ty Cobb in 1910 did it in the American League in the dead ball era. Cobb was able to finish 2nd in the AL with only 8 home runs that year. I see that Barry Bonds never accomplished the feat. That makes what Morgan did in 1976 all the more impressive.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Dec 16, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions

it's not an exhaustive list

I just checked the 20 or so players who I thought were most likely. I also didn’t check the dead-ball era.

by LooseCannon on Dec 16, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions

interesting

top 5 in the NL in batting average, home runs, RBI, walks, and stolen bases

Most interesting to combine all these numbers at one time.
Most steals guys were singles hitters. And most of them don’t get many RBI.

by johnu1 on Dec 16, 2009 2:08 PM EST reply actions

1976 Ranks in 5 Categories

5th in batting average
5th in home runs
2nd in RBI
2nd in walks
2nd in stolen bases

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Dec 16, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

Joe Morgan.

The best player on the greatest team to ever play. I’ll go for that.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 16, 2009 2:13 PM EST reply actions

Joe Morgan was that for sure...and the 2nd best Red ever to wear the Uniform.

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 16, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions

And bonus points for inspiring one tremendous blog?

by Brendanukkah on Dec 16, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions

I was reading FJM the other day. The stuff is still hysterical.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans

by Farneyismycopilot on Dec 16, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions

1975-76 was a great time to be a kid

I remember doing the joe chicken wing flap as a little leager.

Nobody listens to Andrew

by nlt-andrew68 on Dec 16, 2009 4:54 PM EST reply actions

I got into an argument with a coworker last night

regarding Morgan and Sandberg. He being a Cubs fan refuses to believe that anyone was ever better than Ryno and passed Morgan off as just an OK 2B. I still want to throw him threw a window for it.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans

by Farneyismycopilot on Dec 16, 2009 5:44 PM EST reply actions

Put Ryne Sandberg on the 1976 Reds

and he’s Doug Flynn.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 16, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions

put Ryne Sandberg on the 1976 Reds

and he’s 17.

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 16, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I work with one of those losers, too...

"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"

by "Red" Moskau on Dec 17, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions

Random: but if anyone's on a college campus, and can get ESPN 360

You can watch the Dominican Winter Leagues: Tigres del Licey v. Aguilas Cibaenas (they have Sam LeCure on their roster on miLB.com – also Ben Jukich and Craig Tatum)

IAN! I'm on traain!

by andromache on Dec 16, 2009 7:37 PM EST reply actions