Heroes of the Zeros: The Starting Rotation
It's that time of the decade when people start creating lists of the best and worst whatevers of the past 10 years. I was going to do that too, but then I decided to make you guys do all of the work. So, over the next two weeks we will be voting on the players that we think deserve the title of All-Decade team member for the Cincinnati Reds. Each day, I'll present you with a new position, and you get to vote. While we do this, the running totals will be kept secret so that you will be surprised when we announce the final roster on December 31st. The maybe we can finally put to bed what might be the worst decade in Reds history.
We'll start with where it started to end, the starting rotation. The Reds haven't exactly been stocked with quality starting pitching during the decade, but you still have to figure out who the top 5 of the decade are. To qualify for the team, a pitcher must have spent at least 50% of his time with the Reds as a starter and he must have made at least 20 starts in a Reds uniform. The rest of the qualifications are up to you. I've listed the stats for the 23 pitchers that meet our minimum qualifications. The voting form is in this post after the jump.
| ERA+ | FIP | GS | Years | G | CG | SHO | W | L | W-L% | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | ERA | HR | OPS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jose Acevedo | 78 | 5.17 | 54 | 2001-2004 | 68 | 1 | 0 | 16 | 21 | .432 | 304.1 | 334 | 198 | 189 | 97 | 222 | 5.59 | 58 | .830 |
| Bronson Arroyo | 113 | 4.47 | 136 | 2006-2009 | 136 | 8 | 3 | 53 | 50 | .515 | 871.2 | 887 | 424 | 387 | 260 | 630 | 4.00 | 119 | .755 |
| Homer Bailey | 81 | 4.92 | 37 | 2007-2009 | 37 | 0 | 0 | 12 | 13 | .480 | 195.0 | 217 | 129 | 118 | 97 | 132 | 5.45 | 23 | .803 |
| Rob Bell | 92 | 5.93 | 35 | 2000-2001 | 35 | 1 | 0 | 7 | 13 | .350 | 184.2 | 176 | 112 | 105 | 90 | 145 | 5.12 | 41 | .840 |
| Brandon Claussen | 85 | 4.96 | 57 | 2004-2006 | 57 | 0 | 0 | 15 | 27 | .357 | 309.2 | 351 | 195 | 176 | 120 | 223 | 5.12 | 47 | .824 |
| Johnny Cueto | 94 | 4.87 | 61 | 2008-2009 | 61 | 0 | 0 | 20 | 25 | .444 | 345.1 | 350 | 191 | 177 | 129 | 290 | 4.61 | 53 | .792 |
| Lance Davis | 97 | 4.66 | 20 | 2001 | 20 | 1 | 0 | 8 | 4 | .667 | 106.1 | 124 | 60 | 56 | 34 | 53 | 4.74 | 12 | .808 |
| Ryan Dempster | 66 | 5.27 | 35 | 2002-2003 | 37 | 1 | 0 | 8 | 12 | .400 | 204.1 | 236 | 150 | 145 | 108 | 150 | 6.39 | 30 | .856 |
| Elmer Dessens | 115 | 4.47 | 80 | 2000-2002 | 104 | 2 | 1 | 28 | 27 | .509 | 530.1 | 564 | 246 | 232 | 148 | 306 | 3.94 | 66 | .756 |
| Osvaldo Fernandez | 88 | 4.60 | 28 | 2000-2001 | 35 | 1 | 0 | 9 | 9 | .500 | 159.0 | 172 | 95 | 93 | 64 | 71 | 5.26 | 14 | .775 |
| Aaron Harang | 106 | 4.07 | 193 | 2003-2009 | 195 | 13 | 6 | 69 | 73 | .486 | 1231.1 | 1288 | 606 | 572 | 315 | 1043 | 4.18 | 169 | .767 |
| Pete Harnisch | 92 | 5.80 | 29 | 2000-2001 | 29 | 3 | 1 | 9 | 9 | .500 | 166.1 | 181 | 105 | 94 | 63 | 88 | 5.09 | 32 | .836 |
| Jimmy Haynes | 84 | 5.05 | 56 | 2002-2004 | 57 | 1 | 0 | 17 | 25 | .405 | 306.0 | 354 | 188 | 172 | 145 | 183 | 5.06 | 38 | .820 |
| Luke Hudson | 87 | 5.44 | 25 | 2002-2005 | 31 | 0 | 0 | 10 | 11 | .476 | 139.0 | 124 | 83 | 76 | 81 | 98 | 4.92 | 18 | .790 |
| Cory Lidle | 80 | 4.95 | 24 | 2004 | 24 | 3 | 1 | 7 | 10 | .412 | 149.0 | 170 | 95 | 88 | 44 | 93 | 5.32 | 24 | .832 |
| Kyle Lohse | 101 | 4.24 | 32 | 2006-2007 | 33 | 2 | 1 | 9 | 17 | .346 | 194.2 | 213 | 109 | 99 | 52 | 131 | 4.58 | 23 | .777 |
| Eric Milton | 77 | 5.40 | 66 | 2005-2007 | 66 | 0 | 0 | 16 | 27 | .372 | 370.1 | 439 | 256 | 240 | 103 | 231 | 5.83 | 73 | .850 |
| Ramon Ortiz | 80 | 5.66 | 30 | 2005 | 30 | 1 | 0 | 9 | 11 | .450 | 171.1 | 206 | 110 | 102 | 51 | 96 | 5.36 | 34 | .882 |
| Steve Parris | 98 | 5.10 | 33 | 2000 | 33 | 0 | 0 | 12 | 17 | .414 | 192.2 | 227 | 109 | 103 | 71 | 117 | 4.81 | 30 | .858 |
| Elizardo Ramirez | 75 | 5.30 | 26 | 2005-2007 | 31 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 14 | .222 | 142.2 | 176 | 106 | 97 | 47 | 86 | 6.12 | 24 | .876 |
| Ron Villone | 87 | 5.92 | 23 | 2000 | 35 | 2 | 0 | 10 | 10 | .500 | 141.0 | 154 | 95 | 85 | 78 | 77 | 5.43 | 22 | .871 |
| Edinson Volquez | 128 | 3.90 | 41 | 2008-2009 | 42 | 0 | 0 | 21 | 8 | .724 | 245.2 | 201 | 107 | 94 | 125 | 253 | 3.44 | 20 | .681 |
| Paul Wilson | 86 | 5.00 | 66 | 2003-2005 | 66 | 1 | 0 | 20 | 21 | .488 | 396.2 | 450 | 231 | 215 | 130 | 240 | 4.88 | 60 | .817 |
I will only be accepting your first vote, so don't bother trying to stuff the ballot box, you cheaters. I don't care how much you want Jimmy Haynes in this rotation Dan O'Brien, you only get one vote.
0 recs |
74 comments
|
Comments
this...this is why
it has hurt so much to be a Reds fan over the past ten years..
I’ll go with Harang, and I predict 80% of these votes will go towards our current starting rotation..
"Live every week like it's shark week. And dress everyday like you're gonna get murdered in those clothes." - Tracey Jordan
by RedinWrigleyville on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions
Wow
only two guys on the list with a sub-4 ERA…Dessens is one of them and he’s in the top 4 in IP, K, Wins, FIP and OPS
This really was a bad decade
#1 & #2 were easy.
After that…either one year, or poor performance, or (usually) both!
Dessens was an interesting little pitcher. I remember always being incredulous that he’d continue to perform, but he put together some nice years for us. And let’s see here…Dessens was flipped for Felipe Lopez, who was part of a package for Bill Bray, Gary Majewski, Royce Clayton, and Daryl Thompson. Bray, though injured last season, is the only player with the ballclub (I think: Thompson was outrighted—is he still controlled by the Reds?).
-j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
Only 5 pitchers had a FIP under 4.50
and the same 5 were the only ones with an ERA+ over 100. They got my vote.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
i took Cueto over Lohse
he started twice as many games, even if he gave up tons of ground in FIP.
"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I had Dempster, had the Reds hung onto him, otherwise, Harang, Arroyo, Cueto and Volquez. Dessens was a good pitcher for the Reds, and if we’re only considering them as Reds, not before or after, he’d get my vote. Dempster was a good pickup for the Reds, he just didn’t work out— he was decent when they got him, then very good in Chicago. He was just terrible for the Reds.
we should only be considering their time with the Reds
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Just noticed
Only 7 starters in the list had a .500 or better record with the Reds. Only 4 had a winning record, including 8-4 Lance Davis.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
so lance davis better be on everybodys list
this game is just about the W’s and Ls.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
You funny man justone
There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.
He got my #5 slot
I was going to give it to my boy Josh Hall, but he didn’t make the list. But I pitched a perfect game with him in some MVP game, and I’m still under the vague idea that he abused drugs, as I would’ve done if I was in his position
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Let's see, I'll check Ryan Dempster's numbers with the Reds. Ok. Now let's check them with the Cubs...
Ahem…
FUCK RYAN DEMPSTER SQUAW IN THE PANTS!
yeah
that asshole tore a ligament to sabotage the Reds.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
my perception of pete harnisch was skewed by his pre-2000s numbers.
but his 3 complete games in 2000 were worthy of him getting my no. 5 vote. kudos, pete, you 6-foot-nothing workhorse.
And where to rank Volquez
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions
Why weren't these pitchers better?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions
Why did I vote for Homer Bailey?
Shit, would you believe he’s the only player on the list drafted by the Reds this decade?
(Of course, Lance Davis was drafted by the Reds in ‘96, and they signed JQ as an international free agent, so, no, obviously, you shouldn’t believe it.)
IAN! I'm on traain!
riiiiight
you didnt vote for Homer because he’s the only pitcher drafted by the Reds this decade. you voted for him because you want to have his babies.
"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
i dont know
kindred spirits, i guess.
"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
kinda has nothing to do with this butt
what do you guys think of Alfredo Amezaga? I dont know alot about him other than he plays great defense everywhere on the field and is a switch hitter. could platoon with janish, his splits shows he is a better hitter from the left side. could be a nice pickup as more insurance for the ss position so we arnt putting all our eggs in the janish basket
"strikeouts are a lot sexier than groundouts"
I went
Harang, Arroyo, Volquez, Lidle, Dessens.
As for Amezaga, I’m a fan of his versatility. He hasn’t played a lot of SS as a big leaguer, though. I’m not sure he has enough bat to be a significant upgrade over Janish. I think Fay wrote that Walt is leary of Amezaga’s injury history.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 14, 2009 11:30 AM EST reply actions
edinson is 4th on the list with wins at 21? that's brutal.
harang, arroyo, volquez, dessens, cueto
"Some times you get lucky; some times you get Willy Taveras." - Teh Fay
I found a mistake
Chris Gruler wasn’t listed
I know, I think he missed Ty Howington too
What gives, Slyder?
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
this is brutal
Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez, and Wilson. I could of went with Dessens over Wilson, but I always had a soft spot for Wilson.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
fix'd
“but I always had a soft spot for Wilson.”
"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
in the top of his head
damn, baby.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 14, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't Danny Graves start for a year?
Barf.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 14, 2009 12:46 PM EST reply actions
And what a year it was
4W-15L, 5.33 ERA, 77ERA+
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 14, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
ahhhh!! the memories are horrible ... please don't refresh such things.
"Some times you get lucky; some times you get Willy Taveras." - Teh Fay
by joshuar9476 on Dec 14, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Paul Wilson seemed to be the rock in the rotation.
He was never great, but you could usually count on him to be serviceable. I feel like you could count on being in a game whenever he was on the mound.
Other than that, Volquez, Harang, Arroyo, and Dessens.
"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."
Eric Milton had arguably the worst tenure as a Red of anyone on the list
but was paid the most average salary per year. It’s pretty staggering to think that ~$40MM (not adjusted for inflation) was doled out to Eric Milton (3 years), Ramon Ortiz (1 year) and Paul Wilson (4 years) in order to be three of the worst starting pitchers of the decade. Throw in Dempster as a bust contract and I don’t think there was a single successful FA signing from outside the organization this decade. Harang and Arroyo were both resigned to their big contracts and I wonder if there isn’t something to the Reds having the inside track with those two. Signing outside free agent SPs – spending big on the free agent pitching market in general – is something the Reds probably shouldn’t be doing.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions
actually Wilson was solid for 2 years
but his contract extension ruined his stats. I mean he wasn’t great, but he wasn’t terrible in 2003 and 2004.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
I guess Paul Wilson wasn't that bad
but I think the point stands. The only way this team is going to have respectable pitching is by internal development and trade. I guess this is obvious, but I’d be far happier to see the Reds balk at trading Homer Bailey away for Jermaine Dye and have Homer never amount to anything than have the Reds sign someone like Rich Harden.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions
Milton
Yeah, Milton was awful, but it was kind of a big deal when they signed him. He was the only non-scrap heap FA they signed, and was talked about in the same breath as Millwood at the time. I remember being really, pleasantly surprised when they got him— the Yankees had basically peed on him as ‘their guy,’ as they do when they target someone, and the Reds got him. It gave me hope that they really were serious about winning. My psychiatrist uncharacteristically tells me to repress what happened after that, but at the time, it was a bit of a coup— the Reds NEVER got anyone any team that actually won occasionally wanted to sign.
it's because the Reds gave him a lot more money than anyone else was offering him
They were trying to get Matt Clement, but when he went to Boston, they took that money and gave it right to Milton without any adjustment. Hence, they overpaid.
They also overpaid for their other big FA signing this decade, Francisco Cordero.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
hm
Matt Clement kind of sucked, too. For what its worth and all.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
I'm having that thing where I can't reply to people
But I chose Milton as my #5 pitcher, for a few reasons. First, there’s not exactly five guys that are open and shut, “have to be on the list” pitchers. Secondly, I chose him as being emblematic of the Reds decade. He cost a lot, wasn’t productive, and hamstrung the organization. If there’s one guy to point to as being a representative face of the decade, I think you could definitely start with Milton (ok, Harang, but then Milton).
send a ticket to support@sbnation.com
I’ve submitted a ticket to them already, but they requested that I have people actually having the problem submit an email so that they can get a better idea of how to recreate the issue.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
It's only on entries that have something fancy
Like your sortable Google table. And they’ll probably just tell me to stop using Internet Explorer. No! You can’t make me!
hmm, the sortable table would make sense
I bet the javascript shares a common function or something.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
NERDS!!!!!!
can the nerd talk poindexter!
"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
NERDS!!!!

"Some times you get lucky; some times you get Willy Taveras." - Teh Fay
by joshuar9476 on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
8IP, 5H, 1BB, 10K, 11GO, 6FO, 3LD
if we had to give it out for individual performances, it would’ve gone to you. May you have a retirement full of fat, slow-moving, flies:
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
ELANOLEO RAMIREZ!
That just rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Dec 15, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
speaking of lost decades
Looking at ESPN’s 100 greatest players of the 2000’s list, (not that it’s anything special: Hey! let’s list some stuff!) only Adam Dunn from the Reds (#79) makes it.
Sounds about right
he’s the only player that’s been productive for the entire decade.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
Bailey
You got have to include Homer just because he was teh emotion ceter of the fanbase for most of the decade. Most of us always felt that if Homer was as good as billed, we would be successful.
Plus he’s going to win the Cy Young next year.
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 14, 2009 8:04 PM EST reply actions
well i mean if you go on about 2 months in 2004, he was awesome.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Dec 15, 2009 3:50 AM EST up reply actions
Don't accidentally delete my record, too.
I thought Jose Acevedo was the best five Reds pitchers of this decade.
Also, there was an outfielder for the Lexington Legends called Anthony Acevedo when I was in high school. Surely they’re related (like the Crosby and Farnsworth Bros. respectively)
IAN! I'm on traain!
idiot
"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 15, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
None
The Reds don’t deserve a pitcher of the decade. This is theeeeeeeeeee most pathetic list I have ever seen.
5 slots....
5 starters with an ERA+ over 100.
That, my friends, is really how truly pathetic this is. Only 5 above average starters in a decade.
Plus, sort it by innings pitched. Only 3 starters had over 500 IP in the decade. Hmmmm.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
To be fair
to the pitchers of the 2000-decade Reds, they generally pitched in front of some terrible defenses and in front of some terrible bullpens, and in a hitter friendly park. Still, that list is so sad and pathetic, it basically sums of the feeling of being a Reds fan for the past 10 years. Absolutely disgusting starting pitching.
FIP takes that into account
and only credits a pitcher with stuff he can control. They still weren’t that good. And the bullpen was only truly bad for a couple of years. It was actually the strength of the team for the first few and last couple of years in the decade.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter
couple of years=2003-2007?
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Dec 16, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
They were also often relying on the run support of mediocre to bad offenses. Those four situations will conspire to make a lot of pitchers look bad.
I didn't understand either one of you
Of course, I’m drunk. So there’s that. Mazel Tov!!
"Santa Claus doesn't use Craigslist." -- 'tHan
happy hannukah J
"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 16, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions

by 
























