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Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Where each team stands right now

Heroes of the Zeros: The Starting Rotation

It's that time of the decade when people start creating lists of the best and worst whatevers of the past 10 years.  I was going to do that too, but then I decided to make you guys do all of the work. So, over the next two weeks we will be voting on the players that we think deserve the title of All-Decade team member for the Cincinnati Reds.  Each day, I'll present you with a new position, and you get to vote.  While we do this, the running totals will be kept secret so that you will be surprised when we announce the final roster on December 31st.  The maybe we can finally put to bed what might be the worst decade in Reds history.

We'll start with where it started to end, the starting rotation.  The Reds haven't exactly been stocked with quality starting pitching during the decade, but you still have to figure out who the top 5 of the decade are.  To qualify for the team, a pitcher must have spent at least 50% of his time with the Reds as a starter and he must have made at least 20 starts in a Reds uniform.  The rest of the qualifications are up to you.  I've listed the stats for the 23 pitchers that meet our minimum qualifications.  The voting form is in this post after the jump.

Click header to sort table by column
ERA+ FIP GS Years G CG SHO W L W-L% IP H R ER BB SO ERA HR OPS
Jose Acevedo 78 5.17 54 2001-2004 68 1 0 16 21 .432 304.1 334 198 189 97 222 5.59 58 .830
Bronson Arroyo 113 4.47 136 2006-2009 136 8 3 53 50 .515 871.2 887 424 387 260 630 4.00 119 .755
Homer Bailey 81 4.92 37 2007-2009 37 0 0 12 13 .480 195.0 217 129 118 97 132 5.45 23 .803
Rob Bell 92 5.93 35 2000-2001 35 1 0 7 13 .350 184.2 176 112 105 90 145 5.12 41 .840
Brandon Claussen 85 4.96 57 2004-2006 57 0 0 15 27 .357 309.2 351 195 176 120 223 5.12 47 .824
Johnny Cueto 94 4.87 61 2008-2009 61 0 0 20 25 .444 345.1 350 191 177 129 290 4.61 53 .792
Lance Davis 97 4.66 20 2001 20 1 0 8 4 .667 106.1 124 60 56 34 53 4.74 12 .808
Ryan Dempster 66 5.27 35 2002-2003 37 1 0 8 12 .400 204.1 236 150 145 108 150 6.39 30 .856
Elmer Dessens 115 4.47 80 2000-2002 104 2 1 28 27 .509 530.1 564 246 232 148 306 3.94 66 .756
Osvaldo Fernandez 88 4.60 28 2000-2001 35 1 0 9 9 .500 159.0 172 95 93 64 71 5.26 14 .775
Aaron Harang 106 4.07 193 2003-2009 195 13 6 69 73 .486 1231.1 1288 606 572 315 1043 4.18 169 .767
Pete Harnisch 92 5.80 29 2000-2001 29 3 1 9 9 .500 166.1 181 105 94 63 88 5.09 32 .836
Jimmy Haynes 84 5.05 56 2002-2004 57 1 0 17 25 .405 306.0 354 188 172 145 183 5.06 38 .820
Luke Hudson 87 5.44 25 2002-2005 31 0 0 10 11 .476 139.0 124 83 76 81 98 4.92 18 .790
Cory Lidle 80 4.95 24 2004 24 3 1 7 10 .412 149.0 170 95 88 44 93 5.32 24 .832
Kyle Lohse 101 4.24 32 2006-2007 33 2 1 9 17 .346 194.2 213 109 99 52 131 4.58 23 .777
Eric Milton 77 5.40 66 2005-2007 66 0 0 16 27 .372 370.1 439 256 240 103 231 5.83 73 .850
Ramon Ortiz 80 5.66 30 2005 30 1 0 9 11 .450 171.1 206 110 102 51 96 5.36 34 .882
Steve Parris 98 5.10 33 2000 33 0 0 12 17 .414 192.2 227 109 103 71 117 4.81 30 .858
Elizardo Ramirez 75 5.30 26 2005-2007 31 0 0 4 14 .222 142.2 176 106 97 47 86 6.12 24 .876
Ron Villone 87 5.92 23 2000 35 2 0 10 10 .500 141.0 154 95 85 78 77 5.43 22 .871
Edinson Volquez 128 3.90 41 2008-2009 42 0 0 21 8 .724 245.2 201 107 94 125 253 3.44 20 .681
Paul Wilson 86 5.00 66 2003-2005 66 1 0 20 21 .488 396.2 450 231 215 130 240 4.88 60 .817
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/13/2009.

Star-divide

I will only be accepting your first vote, so don't bother trying to stuff the ballot box, you cheaters.  I don't care how much you want Jimmy Haynes in this rotation Dan O'Brien, you only get one vote.

0 recs  |  Comment 74 comments |

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this...this is why

it has hurt so much to be a Reds fan over the past ten years..

I’ll go with Harang, and I predict 80% of these votes will go towards our current starting rotation..

"Live every week like it's shark week. And dress everyday like you're gonna get murdered in those clothes." - Tracey Jordan

by RedinWrigleyville on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions  

Wow

only two guys on the list with a sub-4 ERA…Dessens is one of them and he’s in the top 4 in IP, K, Wins, FIP and OPS

This really was a bad decade

by bengalred on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions  

#1 & #2 were easy.

After that…either one year, or poor performance, or (usually) both!

Dessens was an interesting little pitcher. I remember always being incredulous that he’d continue to perform, but he put together some nice years for us. And let’s see here…Dessens was flipped for Felipe Lopez, who was part of a package for Bill Bray, Gary Majewski, Royce Clayton, and Daryl Thompson. Bray, though injured last season, is the only player with the ballclub (I think: Thompson was outrighted—is he still controlled by the Reds?).
-j

by JinAZ on Dec 14, 2009 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

Only 5 pitchers had a FIP under 4.50

and the same 5 were the only ones with an ERA+ over 100. They got my vote.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 14, 2009 9:56 AM EST reply actions  

i took Cueto over Lohse

he started twice as many games, even if he gave up tons of ground in FIP.

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I had Dempster, had the Reds hung onto him, otherwise, Harang, Arroyo, Cueto and Volquez. Dessens was a good pitcher for the Reds, and if we’re only considering them as Reds, not before or after, he’d get my vote. Dempster was a good pickup for the Reds, he just didn’t work out— he was decent when they got him, then very good in Chicago. He was just terrible for the Reds.

by redflag on Dec 14, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

Just noticed

Only 7 starters in the list had a .500 or better record with the Reds. Only 4 had a winning record, including 8-4 Lance Davis.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 14, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

so lance davis better be on everybodys list

this game is just about the W’s and Ls.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

You funny man justone

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 14, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

He got my #5 slot

I was going to give it to my boy Josh Hall, but he didn’t make the list. But I pitched a perfect game with him in some MVP game, and I’m still under the vague idea that he abused drugs, as I would’ve done if I was in his position

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Dec 14, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

that asshole tore a ligament to sabotage the Reds.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

my perception of pete harnisch was skewed by his pre-2000s numbers.

but his 3 complete games in 2000 were worthy of him getting my no. 5 vote. kudos, pete, you 6-foot-nothing workhorse.

by GrooveLeg on Dec 14, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

And where to rank Volquez

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

Why weren't these pitchers better?

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

Why did I vote for Homer Bailey?

Shit, would you believe he’s the only player on the list drafted by the Reds this decade?

(Of course, Lance Davis was drafted by the Reds in ‘96, and they signed JQ as an international free agent, so, no, obviously, you shouldn’t believe it.)

IAN! I'm on traain!

by andromache on Dec 14, 2009 11:03 AM EST reply actions  

riiiiight

you didnt vote for Homer because he’s the only pitcher drafted by the Reds this decade. you voted for him because you want to have his babies.

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

who doesnt?

"strikeouts are a lot sexier than groundouts"

by smitty3 on Dec 14, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

i dont know

kindred spirits, i guess.

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

kinda has nothing to do with this butt

what do you guys think of Alfredo Amezaga? I dont know alot about him other than he plays great defense everywhere on the field and is a switch hitter. could platoon with janish, his splits shows he is a better hitter from the left side. could be a nice pickup as more insurance for the ss position so we arnt putting all our eggs in the janish basket

"strikeouts are a lot sexier than groundouts"

by smitty3 on Dec 14, 2009 11:08 AM EST reply actions  

I went

Harang, Arroyo, Volquez, Lidle, Dessens.

As for Amezaga, I’m a fan of his versatility. He hasn’t played a lot of SS as a big leaguer, though. I’m not sure he has enough bat to be a significant upgrade over Janish. I think Fay wrote that Walt is leary of Amezaga’s injury history.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 14, 2009 11:30 AM EST reply actions  

edinson is 4th on the list with wins at 21? that's brutal.

harang, arroyo, volquez, dessens, cueto

"Some times you get lucky; some times you get Willy Taveras." - Teh Fay

by joshuar9476 on Dec 14, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions  

I know, I think he missed Ty Howington too

What gives, Slyder?

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on Dec 14, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

this is brutal

Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez, and Wilson. I could of went with Dessens over Wilson, but I always had a soft spot for Wilson.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2009 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

fix'd

“but I always had a soft spot for Wilson.”

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

in the top of his head

damn, baby.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Dec 14, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't Danny Graves start for a year?

Barf.

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 14, 2009 12:46 PM EST reply actions  

And what a year it was

4W-15L, 5.33 ERA, 77ERA+

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Dec 14, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

ahhhh!! the memories are horrible ... please don't refresh such things.

"Some times you get lucky; some times you get Willy Taveras." - Teh Fay

by joshuar9476 on Dec 14, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Aww...Micah Owings didn't qualify?

Somewhere, obc is crying into his Blue Moon.

He fixes the cable?

by Colin Auscapee on Dec 14, 2009 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Paul Wilson seemed to be the rock in the rotation.

He was never great, but you could usually count on him to be serviceable. I feel like you could count on being in a game whenever he was on the mound.

Other than that, Volquez, Harang, Arroyo, and Dessens.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Dec 14, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

Eric Milton had arguably the worst tenure as a Red of anyone on the list

but was paid the most average salary per year. It’s pretty staggering to think that ~$40MM (not adjusted for inflation) was doled out to Eric Milton (3 years), Ramon Ortiz (1 year) and Paul Wilson (4 years) in order to be three of the worst starting pitchers of the decade. Throw in Dempster as a bust contract and I don’t think there was a single successful FA signing from outside the organization this decade. Harang and Arroyo were both resigned to their big contracts and I wonder if there isn’t something to the Reds having the inside track with those two. Signing outside free agent SPs – spending big on the free agent pitching market in general – is something the Reds probably shouldn’t be doing.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

actually Wilson was solid for 2 years

but his contract extension ruined his stats. I mean he wasn’t great, but he wasn’t terrible in 2003 and 2004.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 14, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess Paul Wilson wasn't that bad

but I think the point stands. The only way this team is going to have respectable pitching is by internal development and trade. I guess this is obvious, but I’d be far happier to see the Reds balk at trading Homer Bailey away for Jermaine Dye and have Homer never amount to anything than have the Reds sign someone like Rich Harden.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 14, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

Milton

Yeah, Milton was awful, but it was kind of a big deal when they signed him. He was the only non-scrap heap FA they signed, and was talked about in the same breath as Millwood at the time. I remember being really, pleasantly surprised when they got him— the Yankees had basically peed on him as ‘their guy,’ as they do when they target someone, and the Reds got him. It gave me hope that they really were serious about winning. My psychiatrist uncharacteristically tells me to repress what happened after that, but at the time, it was a bit of a coup— the Reds NEVER got anyone any team that actually won occasionally wanted to sign.

by redflag on Dec 14, 2009 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

it's because the Reds gave him a lot more money than anyone else was offering him

They were trying to get Matt Clement, but when he went to Boston, they took that money and gave it right to Milton without any adjustment. Hence, they overpaid.

They also overpaid for their other big FA signing this decade, Francisco Cordero.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 14, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

hm

Matt Clement kind of sucked, too. For what its worth and all.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm having that thing where I can't reply to people

But I chose Milton as my #5 pitcher, for a few reasons. First, there’s not exactly five guys that are open and shut, “have to be on the list” pitchers. Secondly, I chose him as being emblematic of the Reds decade. He cost a lot, wasn’t productive, and hamstrung the organization. If there’s one guy to point to as being a representative face of the decade, I think you could definitely start with Milton (ok, Harang, but then Milton).

by Brendanukkah on Dec 14, 2009 2:59 PM EST reply actions  

send a ticket to support@sbnation.com

I’ve submitted a ticket to them already, but they requested that I have people actually having the problem submit an email so that they can get a better idea of how to recreate the issue.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 14, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

It's only on entries that have something fancy

Like your sortable Google table. And they’ll probably just tell me to stop using Internet Explorer. No! You can’t make me!

by Brendanukkah on Dec 14, 2009 3:12 PM EST reply actions  

hmm, the sortable table would make sense

I bet the javascript shares a common function or something.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 14, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

NERDS!!!!!!

can the nerd talk poindexter!

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 14, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

NERDS!!!!

"Some times you get lucky; some times you get Willy Taveras." - Teh Fay

by joshuar9476 on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I saw Dessens signed a minor league deal

I think withe Mets. Hard to believe he’s still around.

by ken on Dec 14, 2009 3:37 PM EST reply actions  

8IP, 5H, 1BB, 10K, 11GO, 6FO, 3LD

if we had to give it out for individual performances, it would’ve gone to you. May you have a retirement full of fat, slow-moving, flies:

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Dec 14, 2009 5:19 PM EST reply actions  

ANOLE!

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Dec 15, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

ELANOLEO RAMIREZ!

That just rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on Dec 15, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

speaking of lost decades

Looking at ESPN’s 100 greatest players of the 2000’s list, (not that it’s anything special: Hey! let’s list some stuff!) only Adam Dunn from the Reds (#79) makes it.

by redflag on Dec 14, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions  

Sounds about right

he’s the only player that’s been productive for the entire decade.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

they didn’t use the entire decade as a criteria— Bartolo Colon, Pedro Martinez et al. But I missed a Red, they have Rolen as #11. So we’ve got that going for us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=4740695

by redflag on Dec 14, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions  

Bailey

You got have to include Homer just because he was teh emotion ceter of the fanbase for most of the decade. Most of us always felt that if Homer was as good as billed, we would be successful.

Plus he’s going to win the Cy Young next year.

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 14, 2009 8:04 PM EST reply actions  

I did

There is an overriding misconception that Clutch is an overriding misconception.

by Madville on Dec 14, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

well i mean if you go on about 2 months in 2004, he was awesome.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 15, 2009 3:50 AM EST up reply actions  

go ahead and vote again

I’ll delete that record

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 15, 2009 8:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't accidentally delete my record, too.

I thought Jose Acevedo was the best five Reds pitchers of this decade.

Also, there was an outfielder for the Lexington Legends called Anthony Acevedo when I was in high school. Surely they’re related (like the Crosby and Farnsworth Bros. respectively)

IAN! I'm on traain!

by andromache on Dec 15, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

idiot

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 15, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

None

The Reds don’t deserve a pitcher of the decade. This is theeeeeeeeeee most pathetic list I have ever seen.

by njbentz on Dec 15, 2009 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

5 slots....

5 starters with an ERA+ over 100.

That, my friends, is really how truly pathetic this is. Only 5 above average starters in a decade.

Plus, sort it by innings pitched. Only 3 starters had over 500 IP in the decade. Hmmmm.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 15, 2009 11:38 AM EST reply actions  

Eric Milton is sooooo

totally the bestest.

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Dec 15, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

To be fair

to the pitchers of the 2000-decade Reds, they generally pitched in front of some terrible defenses and in front of some terrible bullpens, and in a hitter friendly park. Still, that list is so sad and pathetic, it basically sums of the feeling of being a Reds fan for the past 10 years. Absolutely disgusting starting pitching.

by kcgard2 on Dec 15, 2009 5:48 PM EST reply actions  

FIP takes that into account

and only credits a pitcher with stuff he can control. They still weren’t that good. And the bullpen was only truly bad for a couple of years. It was actually the strength of the team for the first few and last couple of years in the decade.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter

by Slyde on Dec 15, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

couple of years=2003-2007?

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Dec 16, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

They were also often relying on the run support of mediocre to bad offenses. Those four situations will conspire to make a lot of pitchers look bad.

by kcgard2 on Dec 15, 2009 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

especially if they are indeed bad

by Eastwindquinn on Dec 15, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't understand either one of you

Of course, I’m drunk. So there’s that. Mazel Tov!!

"Santa Claus doesn't use Craigslist." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Dec 16, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

happy hannukah J

"Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 16, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions  

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