Red Reposter - GM Meetings Day 2: We still don't have Hanley Ramirez
by ken on Nov 12, 2009 3:36 PM EST
in News
72 comments
Obama may not have been able to deliver Chicago the Olympics, but at least his hometown hosted the MLB Winter Meetings in his first year in office. Not much activity thus far, but here are some rumblings:
- Per a Buster Olney Tweet (via mlbtraderumors.com), the Reds are shopping Coco hard. Olney's heard from other teams that the Reds would love to move closer Francisco Cordero. Of course, closers are plentiful and Cordero is set to earn $25MM over the next two years. The 25M does not include the 12M team option for 2012. As Coco has a no-trade clause, it's very possible that he would ask that the receiving team pick that up in exchange for waiving the clause. With other relievers available on the free agent market, I think he will be tough to move.
- John Heyman also reports that the Reds are big sellers, and list Coco, Brandon Phillips, and Bronson Arroyo as bait (HT to RijoSaboCaseyWKRP - see his FanPost for a good writeup of the Reds' contractual obligations going forward). Heyman also mentions that Griffey will return to Seattle next year for 2M plus incentives.
- The Reds did just save a little money - maybe a million or so - when Micah Owings was found to have missed Super 2 status on a tiebreaker. He had the same amount of service time as the Cubs' Mike Fontenot and the Orioles' Adam Jones, but Fontenot was awarded Super 2 because he had more service time in the immediately preceding season (2009). Super 2 helps prevent teams from playing the service clock game by allowing 70% (ed: meant 17%) of players in their third year qualify for arbitration. They otherwise receive whatever the club dictates, which is usually close to the leage minimum.
- If you didn't see it, the NL Gold Gloves were announced yesterday. No Reds were named, meaning that Brandon Phillips lost his title (to Orlando Hudson). Chase Utley has a pretty good case for the 2B GG as well. The Silver Sluggers will be named tonight at 7 on the MLB Network.
- The Hardball Times has a writeup about the pitchers in the Arizona Fall League, including or own Mike Leake: Mike Leake is a man of many arm angles. It makes pitch classification a little bit complicated, which I suspect hitters will also attest to. There's also some PitchFX data posted that shows Leake's curve has a pretty good drop.
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A Farmers Only tidbit as well
The Dayton Dragons (our low-A affiliate) named their coaching staff, with a few surprising moves. Todd Benzinger returns as manager despite a horrendous debut season. Hopefully helping his cause will be new hitting coach Ken Griffey Sr., who will bring another presence from a Reds WS winner.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Nov 12, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that is good to hear
I had heard nothing about Griffey Sr’s cancer treatment, so I guess he is healthy.
Why is in the bus leagues rather than 50 miles south? Didn’t he used to have a field level job in Cincinnati?
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
want me to take a trip out to the O'Hare Hilton and have a little chat with Walt?
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
You can mesmerize him with your stories from far off lands, and coax him into trading for Hanley Ramirez.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Nov 12, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how grand that would be.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ley me know when you're going and I'll go with you
I’d love to give walt a little dancin’ music…get him off the dime and on with dumping Wily and Coco.
"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".
by Madville on Nov 12, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mads,
head over to CVG, there is a Delta flight departing for Chicago in 2 hours, get on that flight, there is one seat left for the low price of $320 after taxes. Make sure all the necessary tools are properly declared and placed in your checked bag, I’ll give you $15 to cover it, lets do this!
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck I missed the plane
But they didn’t take my ‘hardware’ although they confiscated my shoes.
"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".
by Madville on Nov 12, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
god bless TSA
actually you can check a gun, as long as you declare it when you check your bags, and it is unloaded.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't you be able to do that?
by Brian B on Nov 12, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
those were more two different thoughts
but TSA is a joke. German airport security doesn’t fuck around. In Berlin they look in almost everybody’s carry on bag, if there is any sorta metal in it they will check. When I flew through Frankfort on my way home from Italy 4 years ago, security searched my bag because of my CD wallet, all the metal in there made them curious.
TSA is a joke, and should be seriously reformed. There is a writer whose name i can’t remember and i don’t care to look up, as a test, he has gotten knives, guns, and other weapons through TSA. I saw him on the Colbert Report.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 13, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was his name Slyde?
"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".
by Madville on Nov 13, 2009 6:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Italy to Frankfort?
Who knew they’d be so serious about protecting the governor??
"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"
by "Red" Moskau on Nov 13, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Give the guy a break.
That’s the only thing he spelled wrong.
"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."
by ZJiff30 on Nov 13, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hudson & Utley are both better defensively than Phillips.
Not saying that BP isn’t good, but Hudson and Utley are just better.
Now imagine if last offseason we signed Hudson instead of Taveras, and had Hudson @ 2B and BP @ SS.
Oh to dream.
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 12, 2009 4:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen a metric yet that would put Hudson in front of BP
do you have any documentation on that claim?
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 12, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Given my skepticism with the ever changing defensive metrics, even if I had one to say Hudson was better, I wouldn't even quote it
That being said, I doubt that defensive metrics say Hudson is “better” than BP, but my eyes tell me otherwise.
BP is good, Hudson and Utley are just better. That is all.
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 13, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many Dodger games did you watch?
If you’re going to completely blow off defensive metrics, I’m not sure how you can declare Hudson to be better unless you’ve seen each player hundreds of times. And even then you’re relying on a completely clear and objective memory.
by ken on Nov 13, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, I suppose that's an argument that I can't counter
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 13, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely a good argument.
I love that not even he knew that he scored and he continued to try to put it in - Evilducks
by sharks on Nov 13, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hudson is living off his reputation at this point
He hasn’t posted a good UZR since 2005. If it’s one year or even two I can buy a sample size problem, but at this point I don’t think he’s much better than average. Hudson had one less error but turned 23 less DPs than Phillips in slightly less playing time.
If you think Hudson is better than Phillips, why would you move Phillips to SS?
by ken on Nov 12, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is not the Winter Meetings
This is the GM meetings, which is much less interesting. The Winter Meetings are the first week of December in Indianapolis. I think BK and I are going to roll up there one day and snoop around.
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 12, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Central Indiana is lovely at that time of year.
"If you have a spaceship and are looking for a hilarious astronaut with an irregular heartbeat and thirty million dollars, I am prepared to leave as soon as tomorrow."
by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 12, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Indianapolis?
Don’t they usually have the Winter Meetings in warmer places? Las Vegas, Anaheim, Orlando, Dallas, that kind of place?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Nov 12, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
budget cuts
Even the GM meetings are a little less glamorous this year.
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 12, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Not really cheaper, but less glamorous. I guess they don’t want to be seen vacationing in luxury while telling their fans, “Sorry, we can’t afford the payroll.”
BTW, Joe Torre was just on CNBC. The entire newsroom broke into applause. Because they forgot he’s not a Yankee any more, apparently.
He said he thinks baseball has changed – a lot of teams will be forced to spend less on payroll this year.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Nov 12, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Budget cuts
But it has nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with fan attendance. Next year’s GM meeting location will depend on offseason ticket sales.
by Brian B on Nov 12, 2009 9:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I know there's been some friction, Slyde, but drop me a line. Since I live here, i would love to wonder around and hear the big shots complain about how much the city sucks
by timb116 on Nov 13, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we don't know which day we are going
But when we figure that out, probably the week before, I’ll send you an email.
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 13, 2009 10:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hudson, Braves reach agreement
3 years, 27M, overwriting a mutual 12M option for 2010. Hudson had elbow surgery in 2008 and made just seven starts this year. The Braves must believe that he is completely healthy, but this still feels like a lot given the injury risk.
This may help confirm Arroyo’s market value – 11M for a durable, above-average starter is pretty fair judged against Hudson’s new deal. On the other hand, the Braves will probably be looking to deal some other SPs now, which could depress Arroyo’s trade value.
by ken on Nov 12, 2009 4:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jason Varitek exercised his player option
He’ll make $3M next year to try and improve on his .209 avg. and throw out more than 10 baserunners. Mostly though, he’ll be sitting on the bench since Victor Martinez will be doing the bulk of the catching. So, I guess that’s a bellweather for a backup catcher (god help us all).
The Red Sox had declined the team option of a one year, $5 million extension.
by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando Hudson is now a Brave?
by Brian B on Nov 12, 2009 9:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox fans are hilarious
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/discussion-reds-looking-to-deal.html
“this is whats going to happen:
Red Sox get: Votto,Volquez
Reds get: Lowell, Bowden"
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/discussion-reds-looking-to-deal.html
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
by btcoop71 on Nov 13, 2009 8:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can't figure out how the link posted twice.....
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
by btcoop71 on Nov 13, 2009 8:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That ought to fix our budget problems!
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 13, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jim bowden?
"Some times you get lucky; some times you get Willy Taveras." - Teh Fay
by joshuar9476 on Nov 13, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How much would Votto be worth if he played in boston for those kooks?
I estimate, not including his salary that he could buy 31% percent of Ontario by the time he retired. I bet his statue outside Fenway would be nice too
by timb116 on Nov 13, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the Red Sox already get a first baseman from Cincinnati?
by Brendanukkah on Nov 13, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Vertigo"-- it's not just a Hitchcock movie!
"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"
by "Red" Moskau on Nov 13, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
or is that Yuck!
"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."
by ZJiff30 on Nov 13, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry if this was already posed (I've been swamped with work and haven't been by)
but I noticed that Votto got one 2nd place vote in NL MVP voting:
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2009/11/12/1142870/sbn-postseason-baseball-awards
I wonder who gave him that? I noticed a couple comments that were displeased with that lol.
by Red_Poodle on Nov 14, 2009 1:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that was in the SB Nation voting
and it wasn’t me. I’m guessing it was it was BK.
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 14, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes much more sense
can only mods vote I guess? If anyone could vote, I could have made a recount necessary lol.
by Red_Poodle on Nov 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am no mod
I did however vote for Poodle…I wonder if they caught it at SBN….
Men get laid, but women get screwed.
Quentin Crisp
by Madville on Nov 14, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm rec'ing that
because it’s only polite
by Red_Poodle on Nov 14, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have absolutely no idea who I voted for in the MVP list
Except I remember putting Pujols first. It was probably me who voted for Votto.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Nov 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It didn't really matter
Pujols got every first place vote and Hanley would have still been #2 even if you had voted Utley #2. The only change in the top 5 would have been if you voted Fielder #2, then he might have caught Utley, depending on where he was on your ballot. Otherwise, your vote didn’t matter, just like in a Presidential election.
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 14, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
unless the vote is so close in that given state
by voting for the third party, rather than the main stream candidate who more closely fits your political values, you tip the balance to the main stream candidate you absolutely hated.
Also that is a small sample size.
Third party votes don’t matter in most Senate, Congressional, Governor, State Executives, State Senate, and State congressman elections either.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 14, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except for in Vermont!
Let’s hear it for 4% third party representation! (Represent!)
IAN! I'm on traain!
by andromache on Nov 15, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I figured
I saw that we had to pick 10 players for the MVP and thought, “10? Really?”. So I put Pujols number one, and just listed good players after that.
"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san
by BK on Nov 14, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we picked 10 because that's what the BBWA does
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 15, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Met Speculation
Joel Sherman has a piece in the NY Post talking about a possible deal between the Reds and Mets. After first stating that the Reds have made it known they are willing to part with Cordero, Arroyo and Willy T at “almost any price” but not BP he says:
Nevertheless, what if the slugger-hungry Mets were to agree to take on Arroyo, a flyball pitcher who could be an innings-eater in their big park, and Taveras as a fourth outfielder if the Reds would deal Phillips? In return, Cincinnati would have to accept Luis Castillo (two years at $12 million), but also would get a couple of prospects (think Ruben Tejada and/or Brad Holt, for example) plus save $14.75 million in 2010 and $22.75 million overall to use to fill other needs.
I must say that while I would hate to see BP go, this doesn’t sound half bad. Castillo is still a pretty decent OBP guy with speed who could fill our need for a #2 hitter or lead off. $14.75 million is a lot of money and if used right could fill some holes (SS in particular) and best of all we’d get rid of Tavares. The prospects he mentions are really far off ones; perhaps the Reds could get a better deal considering there’s 3 major leaguers on the table.
Thoughts?
by no1marauder on Nov 15, 2009 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My kneejerk reaction is that to deal value just to get rid of stuff is a bad idea.
But in this market, is there any other way to get rid of albatross contracts?
IAN! I'm on traain!
by andromache on Nov 15, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't view Arroyo as holding an albatross contract
he is right at market rate. Cordero’s contract is an albatross. If the Mets wanted to sure up the back end of their bullpen, I’d trade co-co.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 15, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No he's not, take off the Rose colored glasses
If anyone here would like to explain to me how Bronson Arroyo is worth $11 million next year, I would love to hear it.
"Santa Claus doesn't use Craigslist." -- 'tHan
by jch24 on Nov 16, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh...he earned via market value status.
Oh and he was the best starting pitcher on the team in 2009. and he has a boat.
Men get laid, but women get screwed.
Quentin Crisp
by Madville on Nov 16, 2009 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is he earned it via market value status. blah blah blah
Men get laid, but women get screwed.
Quentin Crisp
by Madville on Nov 16, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like a guy who we can reasonably expect to:
start 32+ times
throw 200+ innings more like 220
Keep an ERA somewhere in the low to mid 4’s
simply take the ball every 5th day
Can throw over 100 pitches each start, and we usually don’t have to worry about carry over
With the last point he is capable of throwing a CG from time to time
You can abuse him when the bullpen is shot, and not generally have to worry about long term effects.
Honestly Arroyo is a battle ship. He takes his hits, he isn’t always pretty, but he is very useful.
That being said based on his 3.80 ERA, back to back 15 win season, having thrown 200+ innings 5 years in a row, and ending the season with at 11 straight starts where he completed 7+ innings, I can’t imagine his value could ever be higher, especially since (with the exception of 2006), he seems to do much better in the second half of the season. He probably has more value now than he would at the deadline based on his past pre/post all star game splits.
Convince some GM that the first half Bronson was because of his injury, and the second half Bronson was the product of a cortisone shot, and as long as he gets his shots, he will pitch like that. I know there is some gm out there dumb enough to believe that, considering all the stupid things Red’s GMs have done over the years.
I’m okay with trading Arroyo and writing of 2010, we could probably get a nice major league ready prospect back.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 16, 2009 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets
have K-Rod; they hardly need Cordero. Also he would certainly veto a trade to any team that wasn’t going to use him as a closer.
by no1marauder on Nov 15, 2009 7:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
his full no-trade clause switched to a limited no-trade this offseason
im not sure which teams he can veto or even how that decision process works for him. i suppose we’ll find out if/when the time comes.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 15, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
many limited no trade clauses
mean that Co-co must submit a list of of a pre-decided number teams he refuses to be traded to. I do not know how often he can change that list. I don’t know if he makes a list before opening day and that list lasts the entire season, or if he can change monthly, bi-monthly, etc.
But I’m guessing if he did put the Mets on that list, but K-rod goes down early in the season, and the Mets are in need of a closer, and the Reds are their normal 10 games out, he would allow a trade to the Mets.
"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion
by justin007000 on Nov 15, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They also have JJ Putz (who did go down during the season)
by Brendanukkah on Nov 16, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They do not have JJ Putz
Definitely a good argument.
by Slyde on Nov 16, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shut up!
I’ll decline your option!
by Brendanukkah on Nov 16, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TELL 'EM STEVE DAVE!
"Santa Claus doesn't use Craigslist." -- 'tHan
by jch24 on Nov 16, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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