Reading Between the Bottom Lines OR 2011: A Payroll Space Odyssee

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 12, 2009 1:41 PM EST Comment 61 comments

With forecasts of payroll cuts putting the Reds' 2010 outlay between $65-$70MM, it seems likely that a salary-dumping trade will be needed to balance the ledger and accomodate arbitration raises. The most likely candidates to be dealt are Francisco Cordero, Bronson Arroyo, Aaron Harang and Brandon Phillips. This state of affairs seems to make it all but certain that while the Reds may be able to top .500 without CoCo in the 'pen, they're not likely to sniff the playoffs again in 2010 - and have little hope of improving on last year if Harang, Arroyo or Phillips depart. Managment is becoming at least dimly aware of this fact as they aremore keenly aware of the state of the books in 2010, with an eye toward 2011 - that magical year when contract committments fall off in a big way.

The Reds are only tied down for $28.3MMin 2011 plus major raises due to Votto, Cueto and Volquez. Getting the books clear for 2011 favors trading Phillips in the next year - if not this season. BP has the biggest potential market and ability to inspire trade partners to take on his 2011 money. He isn't likely to be their first choice to put on the block from a PR standpoint, but swinging right deal might be the best chance this team has to put its financial house in order while improving the outlook for 2011.

Trading BP would seem like a counter intuitive move, considering his youth and cheapness relative to Arroyo, Harang and Cordero. However, BP might represent the greatest potential savings and return in trade, with Arroyo and Harang off the books for 2011. Cordero, likewise, will be hard to shop and any salary dump likely wouldn't return any prospects. A trade of Phillips offers a chance to clear salary over the next two years, while hopefully garnering some talent that could contribute by 2011.

Trading BP could bring 2011 commitments down to $17MM, before arb raises and contract tendering. That would probably allow the Reds to pursue some top shelf free agents such as Roy Halladay and Jayson Werth while auditioning the Class of 2011, including Yonder, Cozart, Frazier, Juan Francisco and possibly player(s) netted in the BP trade.

While writing off another season dissappoints me greatly - to the point of considering tuning out entirely - there is no excuse for this team not to be both competitive and in good financial health for 2011. I expect the moves made over the next year will tacitly acknowledge this.

Here's what the team could look like in 2011, with a payroll easily below $70MM.

SP: (Halladay/Webb/Beckett), Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, (Owings/Maloney/Wood/Leake)

C Hanigan
1B Alonso
2B Frazier (FA?)
SS Cozart (FA?)
3B Francisco (FA?)
LF Votto
CF Stubbs
RF Bruce

I think the Reds would be foolish to part with Votto or Alonso when they can accomodate both and while both seem likely to reliable anchors in the middle of the lineup for years to come. But for the right return, I would deal Alonso for an IF or C, especially if Heisey pans out in LF. It's unclear where Frazier will stick, if Juan Francisco can play 3B or whether Cozart is the solution at SS, but the payroll flexbility in 2011 should allow the team to monitor progress in 2010 and spend for need next offseason.

The above lineup is highly speculative, but at least illustrative of the fact that the Reds will have a good base of MLB-ready talent and money to spend that could solidify a first-class pitching staff and any setbacks in development on the farm.The available cash in 2011 provides the Reds with the opportunity to be competitive in the free agent market and pursue at least one pitcher and one position player from the top tier for whom a multi-year contract would represent relatively low risk and high reward. Taken together with the maturation of the up-and-coming, there's no excuse for this team not to make the playoffs in 2011.

Short of new ownership, trading Brandon Phillips might be the best way to acheive this. I'm just not sure how many of the die-hards here will still be around to share in the spoils. Any kind of hedging this offseason, such as paying exhorbitant money to Ramon Hernandez, will show us that the current regime is still caught in a delusion.

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Thats OK fans. . .

Just 2 more years, we promise.

Meanwhile please continue to buy overpriced tickets, beers, dogs, and memorabilia. It is your lack of these things why we cannot harbor a better team.

We promise this is the last time we waste money on no good rejects, overpay no talent performers, and grant contract extensions not needed. Pay not attention to the many years before we have made this promise and we will put together a quality team for you real soon.

By the way, who is your favorite person to come watch? We need to know who ~~to trade next~~ you like to see.

~ Signed The Reds

by TheMan1 on Nov 12, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bronson Arroyo is my favorite player. Then Ramon Hernandez

and, definitely, Joey Votto is dead last. Nope, definitely not my favorite player.

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Nov 13, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you know

in 2007, i said 2009 is the year.

The Reds had locked up Harang and Arroyo for a number of years, and they were about to harvest the fruits of Bailey, Cueto, Bruce and Votto.

I figured with a core that included the above, plus Phillips, and a still developing Encarnacion would be something the Reds could build around, if they were smart.

THEY FUCKED UP!!! Patterson, Taveras, Coco, Freel (who turned into Hernandez), Rhodes, Fogg, Stanton, etc are all resources that could have gone towards better options. I thought with four solid starting pitchers in Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, and Bailey, plus the offense of Bruce, Votto, and PHillips (to be fair Bruce hasn’t really produced to his predicted abilty yet), there would be no way the Reds would fuck it up.

WELL WAYNE, WALT, BOB, DUSTY, AND JERRY YOU GUYS ALL FUCKING CREATED A DISASTER AND WASTED THIS WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY. I want the whole front office fired. I want a young GM who is forward thinking, I want the hold dugout staff fired, I want the same qualities in a manager.

What honestly shocks me is throughout the last 5 years, the Reds haven’t cleaned house in the front office or Field staff. They have shuffled GM’s and Managers around, but there hasn’t been a purge of Mark Berry, Brook Jacoby, and the other clowns who make a few hundred grand each year to sit on a major league bench.

I may be with Slyde, if the Reds don’t put it together this year, when I return to southwest Ohio to get my teaching license, after I get my MA in history, I may invest my fandom in the Florence Freedom. I love baseball, but I’m tired of the Reds. I am hardly a fair weather fan, I watched almost every televised game in 2003, and listened to plenty of their un-televised games on WLW.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2009 3:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure I have the stomach to wait another year

nor any reserve of confidence that they can be make the right moves – or non-moves to be competitive in 2011. If I’m saying anything above it’s that trading one of their big contracts this offseason and treading water for another year will ensure that they have absolutely no excuse not to make the 2011 playoffs. They will have had a decade of good draft picks, a solid prospect class emerging and plenty of money freed up – despite being a “small market” team. If they decide to go after Brandon Inge and David Eckstein, I’m going to start following cricket – or more likely, I’ll write a stern blog post about it.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 12, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in it for the RR humor and social and political gore.

The chance of the reds putting it together next season are better than last season. So that’s enough for me. I don’t invest too much emotionally in the Reds…haven’t since Marge Schott took over. Who’d a think that the Bengals and UC would be where they are at this point of the season this year? Hell in small markets you never know…

"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".

by Madville on Nov 12, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jam yesterday

And jam tomorrow. Never jam today.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 12, 2009 6:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It's like Umphrey McGee's punishment in hell.

IAN! I'm on traain!

by andromache on Nov 12, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Truly it is like being punished to listen to that shit.

"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".

by Madville on Nov 12, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

carol channing is scary

yet really hot for an old woman.

by Excalib8 on Nov 13, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am under the assumption..

..that the Reds are under the assumption that Scott Rolen can earn a contract extension with a healthy and productive 2009. I haven’t read or heard anything to lead me to this conclusion but that just seems like the thing that Walt and Dusty would do.

"If you have a spaceship and are looking for a hilarious astronaut with an irregular heartbeat and thirty million dollars, I am prepared to leave as soon as tomorrow."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 12, 2009 6:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What are you gonna do when they announce he and dusty are extended in April.

I imagine the internet will explode

by timb116 on Nov 13, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hadn't given thought to extending Dusty.

But now that I have given it some thought, it almost seems inevitable.

Think about it from Walt’s perspective. At the very least he can conclude that Dusty hasn’t been a disaster. Yes, he’s expensive. And yes, you’re trying to reduce payroll. But it’s not as if you going to fire him in 2010 after you’ve stripped his already thin roster of some productive veterans. (Maaaybe you could fire him if they start the season 10-30.)

And if you’re Dusty, aren’t you saying to them, “Alright, fellas. When am I gonna get the talent to ‘win now?’ Next year? Well, see, that’s a problem because I don’t yet know if I’m going to be here next year.”

And if you’re one of the Reds’ promising young players (Votto, Bruce, Volquez, Cueto) and you’re getting geared up for a run at 90 wins in 2011, aren’t you hoping that the coaching staff has sort of settled in around you and the only change you’ll notice from 2010 to 2011 is that Roy Hallday is in the locker room?

And if you’re Castellini aren’t you assuming that the best way to get Roy Halladay is to keep your likeable proven-winner high-profile manager that you brought in because he was a likeable proven-winner high-profile manager who was going to help you bring in stud free agents like Roy Halladay?

Maybe it’s not inevitable but it sure seems like that proverbial wall is being written on as we speak.

"If you have a spaceship and are looking for a hilarious astronaut with an irregular heartbeat and thirty million dollars, I am prepared to leave as soon as tomorrow."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 13, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And this is that writing

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Nov 13, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn, Pops.

Now my penis is gonna spend the whole day mad at you.

"If you have a spaceship and are looking for a hilarious astronaut with an irregular heartbeat and thirty million dollars, I am prepared to leave as soon as tomorrow."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 13, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

mis-read that the first time i saw it

thought it said
“Damn, Pops. Now my penis is gonna spend the whole day with you and Mads.”

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 13, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why is your pen going to be mad at mads?

by Brian B on Nov 13, 2009 8:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Shit, Alan

we’re both married. We should both be used to our penises being mad all day by now.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Nov 14, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Probably something like this…

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 13, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I reiterate my only comment in that thread which was directed at Alan

The African Funereal Figure that I’ve been carving for the last three days is finished. Within indigenous African communities a likeness of the recently departed is carved and left by the bed (in this case my computer) of the eldest member of the community (in this case me). When the eldest (me) sleeps it is hoped that the spirit of the departed will use the Funerial Figure to enter the dream world of the elder (me) and make contact and give instruction to the community.
So Al, may I call you Al…if you’ve gone into that great cyberspace beyond, I will await your message, if you think me worthy.

Here’s a 1990’s version of a Tsongo Funereal Figure

"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".

by Madville on Nov 13, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would astonished if BP is traded unless the team is 20 games out of it...

Votto – He can hit
BP He can hit
SS Help us jesus
Rolen He can hit
LF Gomes can hit
Stubbs we’ll see but methinks he canhit
JAY He will be a MLB star in 2010
Hanigan – He can hit good enough

That’s the way it going to shake out. Maybe Gomes in LF, maybe Wads, Maybe C-dick
Jannish at SS until we get Jerry Jr. Back.

sit tight and watch what happens.

"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".

by Madville on Nov 12, 2009 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Mads I want to agree with you.

Part of methinks that we don’t trade Phillips, and rather than resign Gomes we plug either Heisey or Frazier in LF.

Another part of methinks we trade Phillips (et. al) to L.A. in an attempt to get Russell Martin, in which case Frazier takes over at 2B and we offer Gomes arbitration to be our everyday LF.

Neither part is partial to the other, and the remaining parts of me are quite conflicted (or drinking.) I can’t decide one way or the other.

Who’s to say we don’t trade Phillips AND Arroyo (and possibly Alonso), free up $18+ million this year and a boatload for 2011, and sign Jason Bay to play LF? The $$ would be net neutral for this season, and it’d be readily obvious (thanks to RijoSaboCaseyBlueAshHofbrauhausWKRPRoseSparky) that 2011 we’ve got no worries whatsoever on cost.

How would this look:

CF Stubbs
2B Frazier
1B Votto
LF Bay
RF Bruce
3B Rolen
C Martin
SS Godawfulness

We’d be mighty competitive this upcoming season, and in 2011 we’d be loaded, with trade flexibility coming from Heisey/Francisco/Dickerson. P.S. I’d be somewhat assuming we’d send Alonso/Phillips for Martin and extras. Not unreasonable, I don’t think, provided Slyde provides the filler reasons to make it work.

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 12, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I had a bet

I would bet they trade Arroyo because of the money they’d save and the potential return they would get. I don’t think they’ll trade BP because of the public relations hit it would take (trading a young, top line player with a reasonable contract). At least with Arroyo they can say that he likely wouldn’t be brought back in 2011. I think they’d trade Harang, but I have a feeling teams won’t offer much for him since his numbers appear to be declining (though Arroyo’s peripherals are declining worse, but he has 15 wins and a sub-4 ERA).

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the thing with Phillips...

I think they can get an MLB player for him, likely one who his heading towards arbitration or is already there, so that they may save $1-2 million this year (I said Russell Martin since I believe he made #3+ this year), but can still save a few dollars. With the glut of 3B/2B/LF players we have at the AAA/AAAA levels, we may be able to offer LA someone they could plug the post-Manny hole with as well. The real value, obviously, would be the 2011 salary saving move.

If we brought Russell Martin in, and finally had a mid 20’s, All-Star, Silver Slugger Catcher, would PR take that much of a hit? I don’t think so.

The prerequisite, obviously, would be moving Harang or Arroyo, but I think that could be done as well. We’d likely only get young prospects in return for either one, which is fine, since neither would net us a SS/C anyway. I’d be happy with a OF who is 2 years away, since in 2011 WE WON’T NEED ONE!

The Phillips play would be the key move (for his 2011 salary), and we could afford to bring back a neutral $$ player for 2010 due to the other trade.

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 12, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Two things: first, BP is the best trading chip of the four because of his unique value

secdonly: I miss Kevin Mirtchell. Even at 500 pounds, I bet he could have led Cincy OF’s in slugging last season

by timb116 on Nov 13, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Mitchell was my favorite player when i was little, before Schoureck

I remember I was playing in my room and my mom came and said I have some bad news… “Kevin Mitchell has been traded to Japan.” I was so confused I didn’t understand players just left, especially for Japan. I went to his first game after he returned to the Reds. It was a total coincidence, my parents bought the tickets well in advance. I gave him a standing ovation when he came in to pinch hit. He popped out to 2nd.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 13, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And Martin is a catcher who can create HAVOC

Maybe we’ll bat him leadoff!

"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!"

by "Red" Moskau on Nov 13, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They tried to trade Arroyo before the deadline this year

But other teams thought Arroyo was overpaid and weren’t interested unless the Reds ate some money. The Reds supposedly refused to do that.

I don’t see that changing now that the season’s over.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 12, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont know

he was one of the best pitchers in the league (by standard measures) over the last few months of the season. that could change a few minds.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 12, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe

he lead the majors in ERA after the All-Star break. That tends to change some perceptions. Also, his salary is off the books after this year, meaning he’s got tradability.

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 12, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you really think so?

With his long record of inconsistency, I can’t see a few months making a difference.

I think CoCo is most likely to be traded. No-trade and all. I think the Reds are shopping him hard because they tried Arroyo and Harang, and didn’t get anywhere.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 12, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He finished with a 200+ IP, ~4 ERA season

Inconsistency and all, I think most teams recognize the value of someone with his durability and proficiency.

The other issue with Bronson this past summer was all the carpal tunnel nonsense. The last two months should’ve put those concerns to rest.

by ken on Nov 12, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think his second half answered a lot of concerns

I think some organizations will forget about the first half, and see his total body of work.

That being said if I were a GM I wouldn’t trade to much for Arroyo. I worry that he is going ot break down. Every season he has been in cincinnati he has been incredibly bi-polar, in 2006 he had a lights out first half, in which he was in consideration for starting the All-Star game, and a mediocre second half. In 2007 and 2008 he had very rough first halfs, and very solid second halves. We all know about 2009. I would be worried that you know eventually he is going to have one terrible full season.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 13, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't it a sub-4.00 ERA

Otherwise, I completely agree. the one to go should be Arroyo, because he’s the only one with trade value

by timb116 on Nov 13, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't it a sub-4 ERA

that I said?

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 13, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't even process it

but that would also put 3 Canadians on the Reds roster as well. Maybe having Bay and Martin to go along with Votto would keep Jo-eh’s mind at ease and bring out the best in them all. They did look pretty formidable in the WBC last go around.

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 12, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

we could get Dempster

he would help out.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 13, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And assuming Frazier is the wonder we all think he is....

sort of like the way Jay has dominated in his first two seasons

by timb116 on Nov 13, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You questioning Frazier....he's God's gift to the Reds

Jay Bruce will be a MLB star in2010

"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".

by Madville on Nov 13, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hyperbole is the greatest thing ever!

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 13, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Slyde, why do hate sliced bread?

"If you have a spaceship and are looking for a hilarious astronaut with an irregular heartbeat and thirty million dollars, I am prepared to leave as soon as tomorrow."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 13, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

MLB Trade Rumors

posted more about the Reds tonight.

We’ve heard plenty of speculation that the trade market will be more vibrant this offseason than the free agent market, with so few big names available through free agency. Phillips and Cordero would each match up well with the best free agents available at their respective positions, and even Arroyo posted a 3.84 ERA in 220.1 IP this season. Teams may be more inclined to inquire about their price tags than to dish out long-term contracts to similar or lesser free agents.
The Reds once again finished below .500 last year in the NL Central, and are looking up at the Cardinals, Cubs, and Brewers, who all seem more likely than Cincinnati to add an impact talent this winter. The Reds are not a large-market team; their 2009 payroll sat at $73MM, and we heard earlier this week that it’ll be even smaller in 2010. It makes sense that they would explore the return on a few of their bigger contracts and attempt to rebuild around players like Jay Bruce, Edinson Volquez, and Joey Votto (or top first base prospect Yonder Alonso).

The math is brutal. I don’t see how they can get down to $65 million without trading Arroyo, Harang, or CoCo.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 12, 2009 11:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Trading one of the Big Four is a foregone conclusion I think

How much leverage they can create by shopping all four might be the key. I think they might be least willing to trade Phillips, but he’ll have the most suitors, and consequently greatest value – which they could parlay into both salary relief over two seasons and prospects in return.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 13, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What would be an acceptable return for Phillips?

Again, as a fan who wants to see this team be competitive next year, I’d hate to see him gone. It’s a sad state of affairs that, for the 2010 season, we would be essentially be swapping Phillips for Roeln, but if the eye is on 2011, trading Phillips still makes the most sense to me.

I wonder if they could swing something similar to the Scott Rolen deal, getting the trading partner to cough up a MLB-ready 2B and two prospects – at least one of them projecting to be MLB-ready sometime in 2010 – and to pick up 80% of Phillips remaining salary.

What does anyone think of BP to the White Sox for Chris Getz, John Ely and Brent Morel? I just pulled these out of cyberspace with no due dilligence, but I think the formula could be:

2B who could compete for the job in ’10 + Top 5 prospect, preferably SP, C, SS or 3B + Pitching prospect with good upside or Top 10 position-playing prospect

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 13, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would it be that terrible to platoon Todd Frazier with a Drew Sutton, Chris Getz or Jayson Nix at 2B this year meant the Reds netted two top prospects and had serious bank for 2011? Might be the best of all terrible worlds if you’re conceding this season. And I don’t think it’s out of the question for Bruce, Stubbs and Frazier all to give solid-to-breakout performances in 2010.

Here’s what I’d love to see next season if the Reds really don’t have the money to retain Gomes and end up trading Phillips just to balance the budget. It’s a young team with a good bullpen, league average starting pitching, great defense at every position besides 2B and generally solid on-base skills. Rolen, as the father figure, would continue to vaguely emit intangibles. LF and 2B could be productive platoons. Lack of power would be stifling, but Yonder and END are waiting in the wings. Maybe the young guys could drive up ticket sales by staying in contention past the ASB.

C Hanigan
1B Votto
2B Frazier / (Sutton, Nix, Getz)
SS Janish
3B Rolen

LF Heisey / Dickerson
CF Stubbs / Dickerson
RF Bruce

SP: Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, (Maloney, Owings, Wood)

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 13, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm always partial to Sutton because I like his k:bb ratio and power.

Granted it was MiLB, and he’s really skinny looking, but a switch hitter in the 2 hole with good OBP could work out.

by mdccclxix on Nov 13, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is SUCH a white time

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Nov 14, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the white time for the white time, if you will

$%$@ing typos

by Cy Schourek on Nov 14, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yowzer my brother !

Men get laid, but women get screwed.
Quentin Crisp

by Madville on Nov 14, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Mariners signed Jack Wilson to a 2-year deal

So, that’s one less SS on the market.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 13, 2009 4:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Unofficially

it’s $5.5-6M a year on the deal. It’s gonna be tough for the Reds to get a SS on the free agent market if that is the price.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 13, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still okay with Janish as our guy

just not batting second.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 13, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Janish

needs to bat deeper in the order.

He’s our future slugging short-stop!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 13, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In this case

I’m really glad that deal happened, so the Reds didn’t do something similar. That’s a lot of money to waste on a all-glove, no-hit guy, especially considering we already have a much cheaper version in Janish.

"We, as for me all seasons you are affected peculiarly in the edge of my seat and are happy concerning the fact that the Adam Dunn fan has been mixed up exactly." - Reynard-san

by BK on Nov 13, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck Jannish

He’s a glove man extraordinaire but the Reds need a hitting SS. Period.

BTW great game tonight UC 24 WVA 21 – Go BearCats
Caught the game with my son at O’Bryons and I was accosted by a rather attractive 27yr. old woman who thought I was ‘hot’…until she found out that I was old enough to be her father….oh Well…for a moment I was ‘hot’….

Tony Pike 4 plays – 2 TDs

"Success is getting up one more time than you fall down, then walking away saying "Fuck it".

by Madville on Nov 13, 2009 11:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

if i were your son i woulda felt awkward

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 14, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't help that I'm a chick magnet Justin

I guess its something you have to experience…
BTW – My son laughed his ass off

Men get laid, but women get screwed.
Quentin Crisp

by Madville on Nov 14, 2009 7:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

shockingly enough i'm awkward

i work on a girl for a year or two convince her i’m not dangerous and a well meaning nice guy who lacks social graces, than jump her in a parking lot, and then we get engaged.

"There is no harder thing than to have Glenn Beck outlive your child."-The Onion

by justin007000 on Nov 14, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you sir sound like a gentleman and a scholar

well at least a gentleman…

Men get laid, but women get screwed.
Quentin Crisp

by Madville on Nov 14, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Did someone just suggest a top flight SP comes to Cin? Hate to break it to you but there is zero chance of that happening, the Reds would have to overpay so much for any big name FA (especially a SP) to come to GABP and play for a team that could lose it’s 10th consecutive season.

by Kinsm on Nov 21, 2009 11:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

No one here is suggesting that's possible for 2010

Least of all in this post, which suggests the Reds need to clear salary. 2011 is a different story.

Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 21, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs