Sabo, Borbon, and Mullane to be inducted into Reds Hall of Fame
by JinAZ on Oct 6, 2009 5:09 PM EDT
in News
38 comments
Third baseman Chris Sabo and pitchers Pedro Borbon and the late Tony Mullane will be the next three players inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame.
Here's a quick synopsis of our new inductees and their time with the Reds.
1. Chris Sabo (3B): 1988-1993, 1996. BREF. BPROJ.
Stats w/ Reds: 3332 PA's, 0.270/0.328/0.447, +38 Offense, +8 Fielding, 14.5 WAR
Sabo won the fan vote this year. For a few years, Spuds was the embodyment of everything that Reds fans like in their baseball players: he was hard-nosed, was always dirty, and had a good balance of speed, power, and fielding skill. Sabo put up three really good seasons with the Reds: 1988 (Rookie of the Year), 1990 (WS), and 1991 (arguably his best year). Other years, he often battled injuries that stemmed, in part, from his all-out style of play. Nevertheless, you can make a legitimate argument that the 1990 Reds don't go wire-to-wire without him.
2. Pedro Borbon (RHP Reliever): 1970-1979. BREF. BPROJ.
Stats w/ Reds: 920 2/3 IP, 3.32 ERA, 3.5 K/9, 2.1 BB/9, 0.5 HR/9, 5.5 WAR
A mainstay out of the bullpen for the Big Red Machine, Pedro was no fireballer. But he kept the ball in the park, and he didn't walk many batters, resulting in a lot of success near the end of the game. Bullpens weren't used then in the same way they are now, but Borbon saved 76 games during his time with the Reds, and was often among the better right-handed options for Sparky Anderson.
3. Tony Mullane (RHP (sort of) Starter): 1886-1893. BREF. BPROJ. Wikipedia.
Stats w/ Reds: 2599 IP, 3.15 ERA, 116 ERA+, 3.4 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, 0.3 HR/9, 42.2 WAR
Like most of us, I don't know much about Mullane. But a glance at his numbers shows that he's one of the better pitchers in Reds history, anchoring the Reds rotation throughout his eight seasons with the Reds. Amazingly, though primarily a righty, he is also one of the few pitchers in professional baseball history to throw with both hands--the result of an injury early in his career. Once healed, he was known to use both hands in the same game.
Seems like a reasonably strong class to me. Discuss!
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Pedro Boubon was magic on the BRM
Although he didn’t throw all that hard he had great movement on the ball and was a tremendous competitor. He knew how to pitch at the MLB level and had no fear. i wouldn’t be surprised if he had a couple of special mud-ball tricks up his sleeve to boot. Nobody fucked with Pete.
Jay Bruce will become a major league baseball STAR, starting in April, 2010.....
by Madville on Oct 6, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's only a supporting character at best in "The Machine"
Not much more than a cameo. But damn if he isn’t a scene stealer. He sounded like he was legitimately insane. Quite a lot of characters on those teams with some incredible personalities. I think it takes a lot to be the weirdest. I definitely would like to learn more about him.
by Brendanukkah on Oct 6, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who is the pedro bourbon of the current reds?
Alway the optimist...I like your think kid...
by boobs on Oct 6, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no Pedro Bourbon...not even close...on the present Reds
Jay Bruce will become a major league baseball STAR, starting in April, 2010.....
by Madville on Oct 6, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes is the closest
"I have found me a home"
by obc2 on Oct 6, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how you spell Borbon or Bourbon?
Someone got whiskey on their mind?
All I can say is I was shocked Pedro wasn’t already in the Reds HOF.
Pedro’s name was included in one of the funniest movies of all-time…….Airplane.
by Dude Rock on Oct 6, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a good book on the Machine from the early/mid 80s
… can’t think of the name, but I’ll post it when I remember. In that book it talks about a brawl that broke out in ’76(?) at Shea. Borbon came flying out of the pen and started hitting anyone wearing blue and orange. As the fight was being broken up Borbon grabbed the hat of some Met bench player, bit a section of the bill off, and then spit the chunk of bill onto the ground while screaming profanities in Spanish.
I want a statue of that moment in front of GABP.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Oct 7, 2009 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, found it in a excerpt from Pete's book from a few years back.
It’s described a little different here, but it’s basically the same story.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Oct 7, 2009 4:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to tell from the excerpt, but I think that was in '73
There’s also a good story in The Machine about Borbon getting angry at the Pittsburgh announcers.
by ken on Oct 7, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Dave Parker? Shenanigans says I
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
by Caleb on Oct 6, 2009 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
After Jim Rice’s induction, Parker’s got a legitimate argument for the grown-up HOF.
by ken on Oct 6, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Park was an unbelievable talent
if he played in the current era his stats would be off the charts. he’s right in that Jim Rice, Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson quagmire. all were among the best of the best of their generation.
"I have found me a home"
by obc2 on Oct 6, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is ron oester in the reds hof?
if not, how the feck not? i’ll argue this at a later time, for what its worth.
"I have found me a home"
by obc2 on Oct 6, 2009 10:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, he's not in.
I’ve seen discussion of Oester. Basically, his argument is all about PA’s. Not a particularly brilliant fielder, and certainly not a particularly brilliant hitter. But he played for a while, and as a result is that he’s 7th overall among Reds 2B’s in WAR. I’m not sure that this is good enough.
-j
by JinAZ on Oct 6, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am certain that it will never be good enough.
He was barely average let alone HOF material.
Jay Bruce will become a major league baseball STAR, starting in April, 2010.....
by Madville on Oct 6, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill James had him one of the top 110 overall 2b in history a couple years ago
that alone is staggering.
Sabo wasnt near the top 100. neither were others at their positions already elected to the Reds HOF.
"I have found me a home"
by obc2 on Oct 6, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill James must have never seen him play..he was underwhelming.
Jay Bruce will become a major league baseball STAR, starting in April, 2010.....
by Madville on Oct 7, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wasn't average
I was trying to be nice. :)
For his career w/ the Reds: 82 runs below average at the plate, 4 runs below average (essentially dead-on even) in the field, position adjustment +39 runs.
So, -82 + -4 + 39 = -47 runs overall.
-j
by JinAZ on Oct 6, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabo
Rally has Sabo the second best Reds’ 3B by WAR. Sabo’s essentially tied with Arlie Latham, who is a dead ball player. (note: I’m assigning Rose as a 1B, but if not there I’d stick him in the outfield, not 3B)
Third base is not a very strong position for the Reds, historically. The only genuinely excellent player we’ve had is Heinie Groh, who averaged over 5 WAR per season during his 9 years with the Reds starting in 1913. Billy Werber had a couple of good seasons with the Reds as well, but only played for three seasons. Groh and Werber are only Reds 3B (aside from Groh and soon Sabo) in the Reds’ Hall of fame.
-j
by JinAZ on Oct 6, 2009 10:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Come on now
Any guy that has open heart surgery and comes back to play the same year is a beast
by Hoit214 on Oct 7, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is quite a man.
I hope he gets a regular gig somewhere. He’s a better ball player than the part timer he’s been since we traded him to the Yankees. But he was not the “star” third baseman a lot of people made him out to be. I’m looking at you, Hal McCoy.
by Brian B on Oct 10, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boonie rates 9th...
by accumulated WAR, but has the 5th-best rate stats of any Reds 3B who played more than two seasons (2.8 WAR/700 PA). If he hadn’t been traded in ‘03, he would probably rank higher. There’s only 4.2 wins separating #2 (sabo) and #9 (Boone).
Boone was a good hitter and fielder. His issue is playing time. Played a lot in 2002-2003 (partly with the effin Yankees in ‘03), but before that wasn’t reliably in the lineup.
-j
by JinAZ on Oct 7, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are the other 3Bs who had better rate stats?
He could have been valuable and have helped the team more if he had realized he wasn’t a slugger with 45-hr power.
by Brian B on Oct 10, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's too bad Sabo got a late start
He didn’t get to Cincinnati until he was 26, but spent two full seasons at AA and AAA before. Pretty slow development schedule for a guy who played college ball.
by ken on Oct 7, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how that compared with other college players at that time?
Jay Bruce will become a major league baseball STAR, starting in April, 2010.....
by Madville on Oct 7, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Picks...
…I grew up with and remember two of the three (obviously, Mullane isn’t one of them), and Pedro was really the most entertaining relief pitcher I ever saw with the Reds (with the possible exception of maybe Brad ‘The Animal’ Lesley’s short stint with the team). Pedro was the Ozzy Osbourne of hats and opposing players when they got in the way. Great arm, too. Sabo might initially be a less obvious choice because he burned out so quickly, but he was a 26 year old rookie back in ‘88, and as the post notes he was one of the main cogs of that ’90 championship squad (not just with his bat but his glove, as well). He was one heckuva fielder at the hot corner (one of the most underrated and best in the league, if not the game, in the late ’80s/early ’90s), and of course he was great to watch hustling around the base paths. I’ll never forget watching him in person against the Padres back in ’91, almost bursting at the veins after striking out. He was a very intense player and he had the numbers to back him during those years.
by tonywf on Oct 6, 2009 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are we really down to inducting guys like Chris Sabo?
Sorry, but if we’re down to that, then the Reds HOF is turning into the tennis HOF where the only qualification is owning a pair of tennis shoes.
by Brian B on Oct 7, 2009 9:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
agree'd
Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,
by 'tHan on Oct 7, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be more upset about Borbon than Sabo
Sabo was a very good player in three of his years, and while he was here he was something of an icon. That’s a pretty good cutoff for how the Reds’ Hall of Fame tends to work.
Borbon, on the other hand, while quite a personality, usually wasn’t the best arm in the Reds bullpen and certainly didn’t have anything like the contributions to team wins that, say, a Rob Dibble did. Dibble was among the top 5 relievers in the major leagues for the first 4-5 years of his short career. You can’t say the same about Borbon.
And don’t even get me started on Smokey Burgess being in but Ed Bailey being out…
-j
by JinAZ on Oct 7, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when Bourbon put a curse on the Reds
and when he lifted it in 1990, the Reds won the World Series? Maybe since he’s in the HOF now, he’ll do some more voodoo and help the Reds win another.
by Daedalus on Oct 7, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Thought The Hex Was Untrue?
From what I read some years ago, that never really happened. His personality is probably what put him over the top, but he was a much better pitcher than some of the posters in here realize. I remember vividly watching him pitch. He was one of the best relievers in the league for almost five years. Between 1973-1977, his average ERA+ was over 120, and he did that without a grade A fastball (not that uncommon in the era of Quisenberry and Tekulve), which is why some people might not remember him as fondly as Dibble (who was more dominant). And while Borbon was nowhere near the main cog in those ‘75-76 championship teams as Sabo was in ’90 (probably the best argument against him), he was not some hack or overrated talent, either. He was a darn good pitcher. Is he a Hall of Famer? Well, what are the standards here? Dave Concepcion, my favorite player growing up, is in the Reds HOF, and yet I’d concede that his numbers are not good enough for Cooperstown. If these picks aren’t good enough, then by what standard should we follow? It is an open question.
by tonywf on Oct 8, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody remember Jim Brosnan?
The Reds HOF is loaded(overloaded) with players who made it to a WS with the Reds
1961 is no exception as that was a team that came out of nowhere to make a last stand and win the pennant over several very talented teams.This was the year before expansion so there were only 200 players good enough to play in the NL. I don’t believe any member of that team except F. Robinson ever played in another WS.
Jim Brosnan was the mainstay of the bullpen(10-4 with 16 saves) and an excellent writer. His book, “Pennant Race”, was a day to day account of the Reds 1961 season and is a must read for anyone interested in that era in Reds history. It holds up well to this day and really brings the players to life on both the Reds and the other teams. Not a “tell all” book like “Ball Four” but it certainly told much more than was usual for sports books of that time. Brosnan had four seasons with the Reds but his real claim to fame were his books. My question is should a player ever be considered for more than his play to make the Reds HOF? Brosnan made the 61 season timeless. .
by stymie27 on Oct 8, 2009 7:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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