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Around SBN: Which Players Will Join The 3,000-Hit Club?

Friday Five: Top Combined Power-Speed Seasons in Reds History

Believe it or not, kids, this beanpole guy was an awesome power hitter. And boy could he fly on the bases!

There is something special about a player that can beat you both with his legs and the power in his bat.  This is beyond the arbitrary fascination with the 30-30 season.  The excitement of a player who can "do it all" on the baseball field really seems to capture the imagination of fans.  Perhaps it is because it opens us up to the belief that anything is possible?  Or maybe we just like players who are athletic bad-asses?

Here are the top 5 seasons of combined power and speed in Reds history:

1. Eric Davis - 1987 - 37 HR, .593 SLG, 50 SB, 6 CS, 89.3% stolen base rate

As a 25-year old, Davis wowed the baseball world and almost became the first 40-40 player in baseball history.  His .593 SLG is the highest by a player with 50 SB since George Sisler slugged .594 with 51 SB in 1922.  Of course, Sisler was caught stealing 19 times that year (72.8%).  Davis was safe on nearly 90% of his steal attempts.  Yowza!

2. Joe Morgan - 1976 - 27 HR, .576 SLG, 60 SB, 9 CS, 87.0% stolen base rate

In perhaps the greatest all-around season in the history of baseball (Little Joe batted .320 with a .440 OBP and won a gold glove at 2B), Morgan won his second consecutive MVP award for the Reds.  His home runs were the 5th most in the NL and he was 2nd in stolen bases.  Probably the most impressive thing was that the 5'7" Morgan led the NL in Slugging percentage by 46 points.  He could have hit 5 fewer home runs and still led the league in slugging.  And he stole 60 bases!!

3. Eric Davis - 1986 - 27 HR, .523 SLG, 80 SB, 11 CS, 87.9% stolen base rate

This is probably my favorite individual season by a Red in my lifetime.  Two players in baseball history have stolen 80 bases and hit 25 or more home runs in the same season, and they both happened in the same year.  Rickey Henderson's counting stats were slightly better in 1986, mainly because he played 21 more games, topping Davis with 87 SB and 28 HR.  Davis outslugged Henderson though .523 to .469, and his stolen base rat of 87.9% was better than Henderson's measly 82.9%.  I love Eric Davis.  I really do.

4. Reggie Sanders - 1995 - 28 HR, .579 SLG, 36 SB, 12 CS, 75.0% stolen base rate

You know, because he struggled so much in the post-season, it's easy to forget what a good season Reggie Sanders had in 1995.  He was coming into his prime that year and put up a .306/.397/.579 season, perhaps deserving the NL MVP even more than Barry Larkin did.  He finished 6th in MVP voting that year, a year that ended up being the peak for his career, but a pretty nice peak it was in a very solid overall career.

5. Barry Larkin - 1996 - 33 HR, .567 SLG, 36 SB, 10 CS, 78.3% stolen base rate

In a strange sequence of events, Larkin improved on his MVP 1995 season the following year, but actually finished 12th in the MVP voting.  Ken Caminiti won the award in 1996, though Barry Bonds likely has the biggest complaint as he had his best non-steroids season of his career (10.8 WAR!), but finished in 6th in voting.  Larkin's season is historically significant because it was the first 30-30 season by an everyday middle infielder in baseball history.  Again, 30-30 is an arbitrary cutoff point, but when it supports a guy I'm a fan of, IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT NUMBER IN THE WORLD!!!!

Now it's your turn?  Which season was your favorite?  Who did I leave off the list that should be there?

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Where's Brandon Phillips?!?! I thought that guy was the ultimate in power-speed combos!

This was a fun list. Reading about seasons like these get me excited, especially since most of those seasons happened before I was old enough to really understand baseball or stats. Eric Davis was in his prime when I was in elementary school, so I didn’t realize how truly good he was.

These lists also make you realize that we’ve been missing such a good all around player for a long time. As good as Votto is, he’ll never be so well-roundedly dominant like these guys. Maybe Bruce someday soon?

I'mma let you finish, but....

by nycredsfan on Oct 30, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Actually, another name as I think about it is Stubbs

To me his absolute top ceiling could be a 25-30 HR, 70-80 SB season. Even with a .260 average, that’d be pretty sweet.

I'mma let you finish, but....

by nycredsfan on Oct 30, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tim Lin... Tim who?

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Oct 30, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

It would be Hall of Fame worthy

Players in history who have hit 20 HR and stolen 60 bases in the same season:
Rickey Henderson (1985, 1986, 1990)
Joe Morgan (1973, 1976)
Eric Davis (1986)

Heck, only 11 players have ever done 20/50.

I think Stubbs ceiling is more like 15/50.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Oct 30, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

15/50 isn't that bad

and in GAHRP, Stubbs could knock out 20

by jsl413 on Oct 30, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

i dont know about that

he hit 28 HRs in his minor league career, and that’s in nearly 1600 ABs. i still think he has more thunder in his bat than those numbers show, but 20-per is probably stretching it, even at GABP.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 30, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

15/50 is still special

It’s only been done 42 times in history by 23 players. That’s why I think it is his ceiling.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Oct 30, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

how many did he end up with this season?

but I see him as a 15-18 kind of guy

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Caleb on Oct 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Including the minors

He hit 11 in 668 plate appearances this season.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Oct 30, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frank Robinson deserves a mention

Didn’t have the gaudy SB numbers but he certainly slugged. 1961: 22/3 SB/CS, slugged .611 (led league). I’d put this season over Sanders.

Vada also had a few 20/20 seasons with a lot of doubles and triples.

by ken on Oct 30, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions  

yeah, I made the cutoff at 30 SB

because I figured that was a good indicator that you were really a speed guy and not just a guy that took a few bases here and there, which is the category that I think Robinson fits in. I did consider putting Vada’s 1963 season on the list, but I’d probably do it in place of Larkin, not Sanders. The problem is that Vada’s slugging that year was only .514 and was buoyed a lot by his 14 triples, which are more of a speed stat than a power stat. So, I thought that was a little misleading.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Oct 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

If I was going to put Vada in there

I’d use his 1959 season.

.509 slg
20 HR
21 out of 27 stolen bases
47 doubles and 9 triples helped his cause

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Caleb on Oct 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

adam dunn 2004

46 HR, 6 SB, 1 CS, 85.7% SB rate, .569 SLG

Alway the optimist...I like your think kid...

by boobs on Oct 30, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm torn between these two magical seasons...

1 HR, 25 SB, 6 CS, 80.6% SB rate, .285 SLG

and

10 HR, 14 SB, 9 CS, 60.8% SB rate, .344 SLG

Both so deserving, it’s impossible to choose my favorite.

RR: Proud home of the most mods in SBNation.

by chesirecat on Oct 30, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions  

wait a minute...

those arent power/speed seasons! your misleading!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 30, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yeah?

well your retarded!

RR: Proud home of the most mods in SBNation.

by chesirecat on Oct 30, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

HIS retarded?

"What the hell are spanks????"

by jch24 on Oct 30, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

You'reman Rodriguez

Will be on this list someday.

by Brian B on Oct 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oooohhhhh, good call.

"What the hell are spanks????"

by jch24 on Oct 30, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kal Daniels 1987

26 HR .617 SLG 26 SB 8 CS in 108 games 430 PA…60 BB and 62 K

That guy really fell off of a cliff.

by Snake the Jake on Oct 30, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

no that is why you changed your name

i mean sometimes Walt is like a prison shower, you know it is gonna happen, but it isn’t a good thing.

by justin007000 on Oct 30, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

no no no

I used to be jch888, but had to change my nick to avoid having the hell beat out of me.

That, and to avoide the litany of paternity suits coming down the cyber-pipeline.

"What the hell are spanks????"

by jch24 on Oct 30, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

And all of those 419 warrants were for the same incident....

that goddamn goat just couldn’t keep him mouth shut.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Oct 30, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm confused...

So are you saying if the goat had kept its mouth shut, you wouldn’t have committed 419 crimes?

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Oct 30, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

I committed 419 crimes on the same goat at one time. In retrospect, I can see why he might have complained a bit.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Oct 30, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Love it.

May he rest under the dish in peace.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Oct 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

lmao

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Caleb on Oct 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eric Davis

Awesome. Simply awesome.

Do you realize that thru the ’90 season (his age-28), he had an OPS+ of 140, 233 SB at an 87% rate, and 3 gold gloves in CF? Look at that list – all except Wilson were primarily corner OFs (Hidalgo was a CF some seasons, RF others), but only Drew had any reputation at all as a defender; not only did he have more stolen bases than the next 2 combined, he had more stolen bases than the other 8 combined.

Man, what a player.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Oct 30, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Robinson in '61

I’ve got to agree with Ken – Robinson’s ‘91 season should be listed. While his 22 SB aren’t much by today’s standards, that was good for 3rd in the league in ‘61 – just one behind Vada’s 23. Maury Wills had 35 before he stole 1,235 in 1962. I love me some Barry Larkin, and the 30/30 season for a shortstop should probably put him on the list, but he finished 8th in SBs, 7th in SLG, and outside the top 10 in HR. In ‘61 Robinson led the league in SLG and OPS+ and was 3rd in both HR and SBs. That’s a phenomenal power speed combo for the era.

And just for fun, I think Sabo’s 25/25 season in ‘90 should be mentioned. It wouldn’t make the list…but he IS Chris Sabo.

by beckryac on Oct 30, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions  

hi, hello, and welcome!

You make a very good argument. I had just blown off Frank’s steals as being opportunistic rather than having a real speed component to his game. And he definitely had the power. Ruling: I’ll allow it.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Oct 30, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've also loved those two Eric Davis seasons.

It was just like – “I’m going to have a RIDICULOUS season that sort of defies all reason.” z

IAN! I'm on traain!

by andromache on Oct 30, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

...not sure.

Bah. I quit.

IAN! I'm on traain!

by andromache on Oct 30, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Here?

(that song was really catchy when it came out, don’t let popularity get to you)

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 30, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

he guys

i need some proof that Opening Day in Cincinnati is as big if not a bigger deal than the Cubs opening day. My roommates do not believe me.

i mean sometimes Walt is like a prison shower, you know it is gonna happen, but it isn’t a good thing.

by justin007000 on Oct 30, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions  

opening day is awesome!

i highly recommend it.

but it’s in covington

Made from 100% Recycled Awesome,

by 'tHan on Oct 30, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

best pic I could find

That’s just parade and people are 8 deep. TWSS.

I can’t find any pics of a Cubs opening day parade.

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Oct 30, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

The Reds had an umpire die, because he didn’t want to miss the honor of umpiring opening day in Cincy.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 30, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

great argument

Opening day is to die for.

I remember watching that game. It was incredibly strange.

i mean sometimes Walt is like a prison shower, you know it is gonna happen, but it isn’t a good thing.

by justin007000 on Oct 30, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eric Davis:

Too rare to live, too strange to die

I miss all 170 lbs. of him something terrible.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Oct 30, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

At the '87 All-Star Break,

Pete Rose said that in ten years, most baseball players would be counting their money. Eric Davis would be weighing his.

Oh, injuries.

The man who will one day be President is, at this moment, lying in his cradle, trying to find some strategic way to get his big toe in his mouth.

-Mark Twain

by poojols on Oct 31, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Cubbies

have new owners. They are vowing to win the World Series. Next year, even.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 30, 2009 8:45 PM EDT reply actions  

THAT

IS
ADORABLE

i mean sometimes Walt is like a prison shower, you know it is gonna happen, but it isn’t a good thing.

by justin007000 on Oct 30, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

1 bad dive from dominating the 90's?

Had Davis not been injuried in the World Series, how much different would the 90’s have been? Davis could have been 1 of the greatest playes in Reds history and a first ballot hall of famer. Most importantly we could have avoided living through the Braves years.

by Eric Davis for Manager on Oct 31, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions  

BTW see my review of ' A serious Man'

at the end of the Red Reposter – Are Walt and Dusty Seriously Considering Willy Taveras for CF Next Season?

To understand Israel and the Middle East, you must understand Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. -Glenn Beck (former cocaine addict and pedophile.)

by Madville on Oct 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

comparing Davis to the BEST EVER power/speed #s

looking at baseball-references power speed numbers for a single season we can see clearly that Eric Davis is one of the greatest power-speed guys in the history of baseball

only 9 times in baseball history has a player accumulated a power-speed # of 40 or greater

ARod 1998
Soriano 2006
ERIC DAVIS 1986 and 1987
Henderson 1986
Bonds 1996 and 1990
Conseco 1988
Bobby Bonds 1973

Morgan shows up 6 times in the top 250 power/speed seasons of all-time
Davis 5 times

The all-time power/speed leaders are
Barry Bonds
Henderson
Mays
ARod
Bobby Bonds
Morgan
Dawson
Aaron
Biggio
Sosa

  1. Eric Davis
  2. Reggie Sanders
  3. Frank Robinson
  4. Jr
  5. Mike Cameron
  6. Pinson
  7. Larkin

by mhowes666 on Oct 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

ha the #s didn't come out right for those other Reds

they should read
   14 Eric Davis
   18 Reggie Sanders
   19 Frank Robinson
   27 Jr
   29 Mike Cameron
   33 Pinson
   41 Larkin

by mhowes666 on Oct 31, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you loosen up your criteria a bit..

Take Eric’s June 86 to May 87 (a full season’s worth and still consecutive), he had:

42 hr’s, 86 steals and a huge ops.

He was also playing some decent centerfield around that time. Sad to say I don’t think the Hall is in his future, mostly because he missed 27 or more games every year of his career.

by Matt McWax on Nov 2, 2009 11:18 AM EST reply actions  

A little more precise

From June 11, 1986 to June 6, 1987, the Reds played 162 games and Davis played 143 of them. Here are his numbers for that span:

  G  PA   AB    R    H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO  SB  CS   BA  OBP  SLG    OPS
143 578 494 127 153 24 3 43 114 80 126 89 11 .310 .405 .632 1.036

That’s one helluva year! And he was only 24 for the majority of that span (born May 29, 1962).

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 2, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Bruce isn't 24 yet

Give him a chance

Definitely a good argument.

by Slyde on Nov 3, 2009 7:27 AM EST up reply actions  

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