One more look at the available outfielders
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 12:34 PM EST
in Off-season
155 comments
First of all, Happy New Year! I know we're way into 2009 already, but I wanted to make sure I said it.
Secondly, I've been looking at the list of available free agents trying to figure out if there is a way the Reds can start to sniff a playoff spot by picking up one player. It's unlikely, but what else do we have to talk about?
Before we look at the available players, let's look at the projections we currently have for the Reds outfield:
I haven't looked at other outfields, but I'd guess that getting only 5 wins from your outfield isn't all that good. Clearly, the Reds need some help.
Can anyone bring that help? There has been talk about Rocco Baldelli (0.7 WAR over 300 PA projected), Ty Wigginton (1.5 WAR/500 PA), and Pat Burrell (1.6 WAR/560 PA), but none of those players would be the significant upgrade that the Reds need to be contenders.
In fact, the way I see it, only two remaining free agents could bump the Reds up enough to make a serious impact toward this season. The first is unrealistic given his expected price tag. Manny Ramirez (3.1 WAR / 595 PA) is going to get $20+ million a year and there is no reason the Reds should or could pay that.
The other player is someone that I've hesistant about, but now I think might be worth it. If Milton Bradley (3.1 WAR / 462 PA) can play decent defense in LF, he may be worth the 3yr/$30 million that he is asking for to the Reds. If you give him Dickerson's at bats and then bump everyone down to the next level in playing time, the outfield goes from a 5.1 win OF to 7.7 win OF. This would also bump the Reds as a team up to a 82-win projection.
I know 82 wins is not much to get excited about, but I think we're starting to get within range of the playoffs in the "if everything goes right" scenario. This is especially true if you consider that the Reds have two serious break-out candidates in Jay Bruce and Johnny Cueto. If both of those players reach their 70th percentile CHONE projections, the Reds will pick up another 2-3 wins. Given a little luck (say, Bradley reaching 600 PA or EdE also breaking out big time), we could be in the hunt for the playoffs.
Or maybe the liquor hasn't worn off from New Year's Eve.
1 recs |
155 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Adam Dunn is technically available
Also, how great are those “Manny to the Giants” rumors? He might actually make their team younger.
by Brendanukkah on Jan 2, 2009 12:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jocketty
Has seen what 1 stud can do to a line-up (Albert P.) so why do we just accept that Manny is too much?
It sucks, my favorite sports team is generic, and cheap. Watch, the Giants will want to spend money this year and get to the playoffs ahead of us. It just is not that hard to see why we dont win a World Series, it takes money. Then we try to be like the lucky teams like the Rockies that shouldnt be there but get there anyway.
That of course leads to us doing stupid things like picking up Josh Fogg, and making our big signing in the outfield Taveras. We try to recreate a fluke World Series team. There is no salary cap, and I`m convinced until there is, being a Reds fan with hope for a ring is like trying to be the most popular kid in school while exclusively buying clothes at Wal-Mart
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cogito, ergo ass
But I have convinced myself that there is absolutely nothing in the world, no sky, no earth, no minds, no bodies except for my ass. Does it now follow that I too do not exist? No. If I convinced myself of something [or thought anything at all] then I certainly existed. But there is a deceiver of supreme power and cunning who is deliberately and constantly deceiving me and that deceiver is my ass. In that case I too undoubtedly exist, if he is deceiving me; and let him deceive me as much as he can, he will never bring it about that I am nothing so long as I think that I am something without my ass. So, after considering everything very thoroughly, I must finally conclude that the proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived by my ass.
by Reynard's Ass on Jan 2, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This from a guy trying to force a new meme
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on Jan 2, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dumb'd
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why don't you go play somewhere else?
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you the type
that cries in front of an ex-girlfriend mural on your wall every night over candlelight while listening to “November Rain” over and over
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you really are not leaving me much choice
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hey
at least he’s not calling you gay like dave from louisville would
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 2, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I grew out of that
the vocabulary expands in wonderful ways when you`re not 15
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thus Spake Ass
Even by virtue of my ass, I am granted an eye beyond all merely local, merely nationally conditioned perspectives; it is not difficult for me to be a “dumb fuck.” On the other hand, I am perhaps more dumb than present-day dumb fucks, mere citizens of the fan base, could possibly be—I, the last anti-political fuckwit. And yet my ancestors were dumb bastards: I have many racial instincts in my body from that source—who knows? […] When I consider how often I am addressed as Dick Pole when I travel, even by assholes themselves, and how rarely I am taken for intelligent, it might seem that I have been merely externally sprinkled with what is smart.
by Reynard's Ass on Jan 2, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And I the coward,
spake-ith like a tool, for I am forever destined to wander the deadlands of the internet, where friends are not in form but in type, and it is this that is genuine life!
Oh father, when I die give me my witticisms to my grave, and when you weigh the deeds of my life, let it be known that I took all of the years of physical, emotional, and verbal abuse through my schooling to name myself after a random persons fecal-factory!
And let it be known that attacking his intelligence on a website was what I had so bravely done! Bless this internet, for it is the medium where I can throw out mediocre burns that middle aged men should not have enough time to post! For it is where I can say things and feel alive like a real man without getting beat up like I always have! Oh lord, please bury the internet by my side, as it is the only thing that keeps me from realizing my true lonliness!!!!
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's actually a pretty good response
and now I’m going to ask everyone involved to knock off the shenanigans.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your the one who said you didn't like boobs
I didn’t say anything, you said it all. I’m just connecting the dots.
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 2, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dunn'd
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 2, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn gets sucked off too much on this site for it to catch on
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dunn'd
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 2, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this
because it increases the odds Dusty gets punched in the face by one of his players.
But how much of an improvement (WAR) is Bradley over Dunn?
by jacob brumfield on Jan 2, 2009 12:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd because I really want to root for Milton Bradley to just freak the hell out.
Maybe the Reds could also sign Sean Casey to cry in the corner of the locker room when Bradley goes on a rampage.
But yeah, Bradley would give the Reds some characters, which is all I ask for in a lost season.
Worth a mention (or not), but if the Dodgers take on all of the salary, would you take Andruw Jones and hope that he can turn it around? He’s still an above-average CF, right?
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Jan 2, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't
Two reasons:
- It’s not clear he’s still above-average defensively.
- To get the Dodgers to swollow all of that salary might be expensive in terms of prospects.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on Jan 2, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if not Dusty he could always skull bash Marty
on Jones, I’ve been reading how embarrassed he was about last season and has been working to get back in shape physically and at the plate. I would take on some salary, no more than 3-4mil per year only if it cost us prospects on the scrap heap. And if he has lost a step in center, he could be the best left fielder in baseball. I’m not sold on the guy, I would just rather deal with Jones’ laziness and obesity than Baldelli’s internal bio-hazard.
by jacob brumfield on Jan 2, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jones = PED?
That was quite a decline he experienced rapidly, plus I doubt that his native country has stringent PED laws/enforcement.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 2, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always forget about this variable
and I never remember hearing his name when it came up…..but, then again it is highly likely
by jacob brumfield on Jan 2, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If a side effect of PEDs is a large ass
my old neighbor must have been eat that stuff for every meal.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then again
Jones never hustles, so I hereby declare that he cannot play 3B.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 2, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Curacao is a Dutch protectorate
which is apropos of nothing other than
A) dude, do you know pot’s legal in the Netherlands, bro?
B) Sidney Ponson was knighted by the Netherlands, and Andruw Jones was not. If that’s not bizarre, I don’t know what is (unless there’s a difference between Aruba and Curacao that I don’t know about).
good lord, I’m just slumming watching this football game and pontificating like a Verka-Madville mashup
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Jan 2, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Get over it
everytime I read an Adam Dunn comment on this site that holds the pathetic/sad/pointlessly hopeful feel that reminds me of a small child making excuses for a deadbeat dad that left home I will comment on it in that manner.
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that was a pointless rant
all he asked was how much Bradley was worth over Dunn and you went all douchebag on him. Nice work.
To answer his question, Bradley is about 3.1 projected WAR and Dunn is about 2.5 projected WAR. But then, for some reason Chone projects Bradley to be +5 runs in a corner outfield spot, which I think is a bit ambitious. I’d say they are virtually identical value-wise. However, this is mainly because Bradley is only projected to play about 450 ABs. If he gets up to 600, it ain’t even close.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
thank you, kind sir
assuming Dickerson covers the other 150 PA for Bradley to match Dunn’s 600 we would have a left field duo with a 2.6 projected WAR. Better than Dunn. But does this system count for defensive numbers? I have no idea how Bradley is in the field but I would assume better or equal to Dunn.
by jacob brumfield on Jan 2, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty shocked to see that big of a difference between the two
I REALLY don’t know my numbers, but considering Dunn has been pretty injury free, and Bradley hasn’t, that’s a pretty big delta.
I guess Bradley would be the best bet, but Manny would be a lot more fun (though against this whole “good defense” meme). I’m really just gonna shrug at this point and hope for the best. Hopefully Jocketty won’t follow my lead.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Jan 2, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's the defense
It takes a lot of value away from Dunn.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For some entertainment
head over to the Cubs BCB and look at the story from a couple days ago on Bradley. The list of injuries… well, you just have to see it.
Not that it means it is true, but the yakkers on Chicago radio describe the signing of Bradley as basically done.
by ol Pete on Jan 3, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gammons said the same thing in his latest column
by Brendanukkah on Jan 3, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gammons is wrong at least 65% of the time.
He’s right 5% of the time based on dumb luck, and the remaining 30% of the time, he’s simply talking out of his ass.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 3, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Happy Buck Rogers New Year!
Slyde: "You're like the Ike Turner of RR commenters."
by Pops Daniels on Jan 2, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Steve Carell looks hot in that pic
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on Jan 2, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone will drop to the bottom of the barrel
But as you said Slyde, whoever that is won’t be a major upgrade. (I think you might have left Abreu off, but then, he is a lefty) Unless we can get someone like Burrell or Wiggington for really cheap (which may be possible in a month or so), I think the money would be better spent on defense or bullpen insurance.
by saboscork on Jan 2, 2009 6:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I intentionally only looked at RHB
given that it is clear that is all the Reds are looking at. I was trying to be somewhat realistic.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have enjoyed these last couple of posts
I wish I understood the formula better.
I see Bruce having a bigger impact this year. I think he can step up and be the man.
I am concerned with the pitching for two reasons:
The lack of run support causing a Harang of ’08 like reaction in the whole staff.
The reliance on the young arms. I am concerned that Volquez and Cueto will not be able to recreate much less better last year.
Anxiety Abounds.
In Feb hope will perservere.
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
by Willie Mays Hayes on Jan 2, 2009 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
hope
I dont have a lot of hope. I do hope three things happen to the offense next season.
I hope Joey Votto becomes Will Clark. I hope Jay Bruce becomes Larry Walker. I hope EE becomes Ron Santo.
If that happens there might be room for optimism…but it still ignores C, LF, CF and SS. Ugh.
by obc2 on Jan 2, 2009 9:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My hope is always misplaced in Feb
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
by Willie Mays Hayes on Jan 2, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
EE's legs below the knee do not appreciate your hope
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Jan 3, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand what the deal is with Reynad is ?
I know I don’t always make sense…but christ on a Corncob give me a break……Reynard’s ass = Reynard = Who cares.
I am not Reynard's ass.
M. Ville
by Madville on Jan 2, 2009 9:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
don't encourage him/them
by mentioning his/their name(s) or responding to him/them.
Reds fan for 40 years!
by gejoe on Jan 2, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I swear that isnt me...
I know my word doesnt count for much around here but its true
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andruw Jones
From MLB Trade Rumors:
FRIDAY, 7:51pm: Ken Gurnick of MLB.com reports that the Major League Player’s Association has approved the contract agreement, which will defer Jones’ remaining salary. According to an industry source, Jones will either be traded or released before the start of spring training and perhaps sometime this month.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 2, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If he comes cheap
I’d take a flyer on him. I just wonder if he’s willing to play left field.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to him?
He’s not a kid any more, but he’s not old.
When he had that great year, some people thought it was ‘roids, not his wider batting stance. Given the way he’s fallen off a cliff, you gotta wonder.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 2, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it looks like he may have put on a pound or two
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dad?
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
by Willie Mays Hayes on Jan 2, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes son?
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on Jan 3, 2009 8:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
reflex?
Slyde: "You're like the Ike Turner of RR commenters."
by Pops Daniels on Jan 3, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I try to cover all bases
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on Jan 3, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How am I the first to rec this?
"You are not my ass." - Reynard
by BK on Jan 3, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man
I hate guys who have bigger boobs than I do.
He’s put on a few pounds, but you’d think that would affect him in the field more than at the plate. He’s still a good defender, but he can’t hit for squat now.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 2, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would the Celtics even want Marbury?
I just cant say I really understand that one…..at least Dikembe Mutumbo is playing again…..2nd greatest basketball player ever, behind Reggie Miller
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 9:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
At first I thought this post was irrelevant
and then I realized that it was out of left field. (HA! I kill me)
If Utah continues to crush Alabama, do they get to share the National Title?
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see the computor rankings if they continue to roll
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
by Willie Mays Hayes on Jan 2, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Until OSU plays
Then they will probably get crushed again, and everyone will complain about Texas/call another one of my beloved sports teams an “embarrassment”. Its just one big cycle through the year, where every season is sprinkled with my misery, until the next sports season comes about to make the previous one even more forgettable
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude it is the holidays
find your freakin happy place.
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
by Willie Mays Hayes on Jan 2, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the holidays are over
a new year is here to kick us in new places.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here is to this year being better than last
personally that is
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
by Willie Mays Hayes on Jan 2, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I got notified my student loan
cancells at the end of the month, and Im left with no way to pay 6 grand for my last quarter before graduating……happy new year! At least the bailout helped me
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
at least there are still crappy American cars available that you can’t afford.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could buy a "smart car"
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03/smart_450x359.jpg
which after hitting a cat, you find yourself in a decimated piece of flaming metal, and suddenly you dont feel so smart….
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is for you
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Utah impressed me
Came out swinging and had ‘Bama on the ropes before they knew what happened. I’d have them at least #2. Seriously.
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on Jan 3, 2009 8:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Andyfan
I’m sure he was rooting for the Crimson Tide.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 3, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Call them the non BCS national champions
Public high schools in Ohio would declare a public school state champion back in the day. They really did not compete much with the private schools.
The will probably end up #2 . It is a shame, you can only beat the teams in front of you. I don’t know how they will get any kind of respectable non conference schedule in the future.
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
by Willie Mays Hayes on Jan 3, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mountain West should be a BCS conference
Utah had the best season so far…besides maybe Texas (if they beat OSU) or USC. Strangely enough, none of them are in the championship.
But seriously, Utah-BYU-TCU-Air Force-UNLV-Colorado State stacks up pretty well against the other conferences, right?
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Jan 3, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
youre right they could compete
with the likes of the ACC or the Big East, but you have to remember that the Mountain West is at a historic high as a conference and the ACC, Big East, and Big 10 are all at low points. the 6 BCS conferences are given the benefit of the doubt because they’ve been the best conferences traditionally. these things have to be looked at historically, rather than just “what have you done lately?”
conversely, i wouldnt mind a relegation set up like the Premier League, where the bottom 2 BCS conferences are replaced each year by the top 2 non-BCS conferences. but it would never happen.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 3, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always thought this was it
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 2, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Have you seen Dusty`s website?
He sells himself to sell himself in endorsements!
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.dustybaker.com/endorsements.asp
by Reynard on Jan 2, 2009 10:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How bout Andruw Jones?
Since the Dodger and Jones restructured his contract, I think Andruw Jones could possibly be a great fit for the club. He is big risk reward candidate, but let’s face it, without a gamble we aren’t going to compete for a play off spot. The Reds simply can’t afford to spend big money on a lisk big name producer. Jones was hurt last year and he is possibly the big right handed bat we’ve been looking for. He is still young!
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Olney the Lonely
Slyde: "You're like the Ike Turner of RR commenters."
by Pops Daniels on Jan 3, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i like the idea
as long as the Dodgers eat 85% of the money and we dont give up anything of value. i agree we shouldnt be spending money or prospects on a player (like Dye or Nady) that will only push us above 80 wins. go with Jones and hope for the best. it’ll be fun!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 3, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
cost is the whole thing, but at least this season would be the only one. It’s a mutually beneficial situation if Andruw can push and produce for a contract year and the Reds get him for under $1 million and no prospects lost. Why not?
Slyde: "You're like the Ike Turner of RR commenters."
by Pops Daniels on Jan 3, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dodgers won't eat that much cash or crow
They’ll need at least 1 solid prospect and won’t eat enough of the money.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 3, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eating cash or crow
I believe they will. As stated on the column in MLB’s web site, they Dodgers have agreed to either trade or release Jones.
From MLB’s site: below:
Jones is owed about $21.1 million from a back-loaded two-year contract. Instead of paying that total amount this year, the agreement spreads out the Dodgers’ payments for as many as six years. The amount deferred could be as much as $12 million.
This agreement assures he will be traded or flat out released by the start of spring training.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Fay
doesn’t see Andruw in a Reds uniform this year. Because we already have a CFer (Taveras), because Andruw wants to be a starter and the Reds won’t agree to that, and because his OPS is plummeting, like sheep that roost in trees.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 3, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i cant stand this
perhaps the most infuriating thing about the Reds is that they are so obtuse regarding players and positions. “Jones is a CF, so we dont want him.” i cant tolerate this kind of thinking. its the same thing with Phillips to SS or EdE to LF, or the way Rosales (a lifetime SS) couldnt get into a game last year because Dusty thought he was a 1B or whateverthefuck he thought, and the way LLM played 3B(!!) last year. there are plenty of legitimate reasons to not want Jones, but to say he doesnt have a place here because he’s a CF is beyond my scope of comprehension.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 3, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Scrabbles
Why not have him in left field? I don’t see any reason Jones wouldn’t get the starting spot there. Dickerson and Hopper are decent back ups, but if we picked up Jones, there is no reason to believe the job wouldn’t be handed to him on a golden platter. He does have a history of being one hell of a ball player and he would be an above average left fielder. If he falls on his face, we wouldn’t have lost much because without a gamble on a player like him having a break out year, there is no way we contend.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's not just the Reds
Yankees beat reporter Pete Abe kind of addressed this yesterday:
People have told me Orlando Hudson could play center. Robinson Cano should play left. Derek Jeter can play center. Use Hideki Matsui at first base. This is a major league baseball team, not the second game of a American Legion doubleheader. Good teams don’t experiment like that unless there is no other choice. The Yankees always have another choice.
And in the case of Andruw Jones, I think there’s legitimate worry that he would resist playing another position.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 3, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
amazing
these people really know how to take it out of me. “good teams dont experiment”…
as for Jones resisting, i dont care. if he doesnt want to play LF i would cut him. i wouldnt do the deal for him if we are paying money for him anyway, so if he is unhappy in LF then he can tell his story walking and we wouldnt be out any money. its probably best for the Reds not to get involved with him anyway, but at this point it doesnt sound any worse than trading Homer for Dye.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 3, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
we’d have to pay him minimum wage, which is about $400,000.
It’s not a lot of money for a baseball team…but the Reds non-tendered Norris Hopper because they didn’t want to pay him that.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 3, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
position change
It’s not like Edwin going to play left, that’s a big change. Going from center to left would be a piece of cake for a good center fielder. Griffey didn’t do too bad of a job going to right. His fielding was not a complaint of most fans and we would know if he was up for it before signing him. If he isn’t interested then, no deal. I don’t think he is holding all the cards right now.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how is Jones arm these days
if he still has a cannon for an arm, right field might make more sense, with Bruce in Left, and Willy/Dickerson in Center, and Hopper being hopper.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A Rod
A Rod to third was an experiment.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After reading this article
I wonder if Cincinnati.com has an editor, or if the site is just a glorified RR site, the spelling is worse than mine
by Reynard on Jan 3, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Second chance
The Reds are usually pretty lucky when it comes to picking up position players that are down on their luck and turning them around (remember Ron Gant). If it isn’t too much I would risk it, but I doubt we would be able to get him for less then 2 or 3 million a year. That’s my guess, but I am no GM.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
$400,000?
Well maybe, who knows? It’s hard for me to believe that someone wouldn’t pay him more then that. If I was a GM and knew he was in shape, I would be willing to risk a couple million on him.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 6:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
as I understand it
anything you pay him is simply deducted from the money the Dodgers are paying him. So Jones won’t actually get any more money if he’s released and picked up by another team. The Dodgers might get more money if they manage to trade him and get the other team to pick up some of his money.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 3, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right.
Yes, you’re right. Unless the Dodgers flat out release him, which is a possibility. Then he would be owed all the contract money from the Dodgers and he would be able to sign a new contract with another team. It would be pretty weird if no team was willing to give up something in exchange for Jones.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he's released
He could sign with another team. He would be owed all his money from the Dodgers, but his new team would likely pay him only league minimum. Which would be deducted from the money the Dodgers were paying him.
That’s what happened to Craig Wilson. The Braves signed him for $2 million dollars, then released him. The Pirates then picked him up and paid him AAA minimum, which was deducted from the money the Braves owed him.
Speaking of which…I’d still like to take a flyer on Craig Wilson. The Reds released him because he hadn’t recovered from shoulder surgery, but he played in AAA last year and his power seemed to be returning as the season went on.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 3, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers and Mike Lamb released from Minnesota also
by ol Pete on Jan 3, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Minnesota released Mike Lamb?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i actually meant to ask "Minnesota released the Brewers?"
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
last comment I made
My last comment doesn’t make any since in the thread we’ve been having, because it disagrees with what Bubba has said.
Jones can profit more off of this if he is released and picked up by another team. If he is traded, then the Dodgers would be liable for the majority of his salary, leaving the other team picking up whatever was negotiated.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Written by Ken Gurnick of MLB.com
The Major League Baseball Players Association approved the unusual agreement because Jones will receive his entire salary, as well as the possible benefit of free agency should he be released.
Jones is owed about $21.1 million from a back-loaded two-year contract. Instead of paying that total amount this year, the agreement spreads out the Dodgers’ payments for as many as six years. The amount deferred could be as much as $12 million.
by masked fan on Jan 3, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrum is way over the hill.
Why waste time on him?
There is no short term advantage and no long term gain.
I’d rather go with C-Dick.
Lingus and Peppermint Panties can blow me.
M. Ville
by Madville on Jan 3, 2009 8:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If Andrew Jones is less than $1M/year net cost with no top 30 prospects
then maybe he’d be worth a gamble, as he has the most upside of the remaining players other than Bradley and Manny.
If we’re all on board with the concept that 2010 is our target year for dynasty eruption and 2009 is merely a development year in which the most we can hope for is an 82-win projection with upside beyond that, then this move might make about as much sense as any.
Also, if we are in a development year, then why isn’t Sean Casey a Red yet? If we don’t make a big Bradley or Beltre-type move that makes a splash and gives us plausible playoff hope, then it’s only going to be the faithful watching anyway. And if you can’t give the faithful wins, then give them the players they like to root for, be them favorite veterans or the blossoming youngsters that will be part of a healthy franchise going forward.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 3, 2009 8:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jay Bruce on “IL All-Promoted Team”
Any other Bats?
search: IL All-Promoted
lvironpigs.wordpress.com
by tomo ohka on Jan 3, 2009 8:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Simontacchi!!!
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 3, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are sooooo taguchi
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on Jan 4, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Burrell and bradley are great fits.
i feel that Bradley and Burrell are great attendance getters and great fielders.they show consistency.both can hit and field.Burell gets you 30 homers and 100 rbi’s.Bradley gets you .321 average 22 homers 77 rbi’s..there you go Tavares Bradley Burrell Votto Encarnacion Philips Hernandez Gonzales pitcher..you can platoon bruce with corner outfielders for rest. i feel this would be a contending team here and a mesh of consistency and team acting as a team.not individuals.Reds need to field a team not talent.
by image21972 on Jan 4, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Slyde: "You're like the Ike Turner of RR commenters."
by Pops Daniels on Jan 4, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"You can platoon Bruce"
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on Jan 4, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
platooning bruce?
that’s sounds like a capital idea…just capital
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 4, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It certainly would make a splash on the National stage
Leather it’s a good idea or not depants on whom you ask.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 4, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's platoon Votto too!
Yeah, and let’s bring Casey back so we can platoon Votto as well.
by masked fan on Jan 4, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i say we platoon our starting pitchers
give them all 50 pitch limits and 2 days rest. it could revolutionize the game!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 4, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Owings might not be a bad half of a platoon with C-Dick Run
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 4, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers platooned
most of them are being platooned the past two or three years.they cant get past the fourth inning.then there it oes we get everyone out of the bullpen then have to call up fresh arms..oh yeah besides volquez and arroyo all other pitchers couldn’t get out of the third inning with more than 50 pitches.
by image21972 on Jan 4, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Platoon is the answer
in order to keep everyone fresh out there running around as these pitchers get blasted by better batters than our pitchers.oh an as for Owings he sucks….trade never should have happened.maybe if we get a quality pitcher like Lowe who can win 15 games and stay healthy…Oh and as far as Votto yeah he needs rest,but Casey is not the answer.Yes Bruce is a great kid,but he isn’t even in his prime yet.let him get good veteran help in becoming a better ball player.there is too much youth on the team and in the farm to create a winning franchise right now.what are we the Pirates!!!!! come on…this idea will get us to at least September with fresh legs and a better chance of contending. seriously tell me i am wrong.
by image21972 on Jan 4, 2009 7:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you are wrong
it would be a waste of money and resources – and probably quality play – to platoon Bruce and Votto. These guys are young. They are the kind of guys that should be playing everyday. To platoon them would be stupid.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 4, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a Waste
18 million get better quality outfielders and consistency.yeah bruce is a very good youngster but has made lots of mistakes and need to really protect the investment.Votto is alot more along than Bruce is.so that’s my answer.
by image21972 on Jan 4, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or you save the money
let the young players play everyday and get better by practicing against the best competition in the world and maybe this team will actually be ready to compete in the near future. I think your plan will set the organization back, not move it forward.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 4, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how will Bruce learn to hit left handers in a platoon?
What do you mean Votto needs rest?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Save the Money
I agree about the total future i am thinking in this season and next. The Reds need to compete the entire season.that was my view on things. The organization is rebuilding with Walt Jocckety This Reds Franchise is the new St.Louis Cardinals. The Ownership is looking to win now on put a competing team on the field.
by image21972 on Jan 4, 2009 8:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the reds need to compete the entire season?
what does that even mean?
I was personally hoping that they would compete in April July, and September, and in the other months have only 22 players on the active roster, with one being Juan Castro (making it 20 with subtraction by addition), and only field 7 players, and I hope the defense does not wear wear gloves in the 2nd, 4th, and 8th innings.
For years i have heard that the goal is to be competitive. I have even kinda been suckered into it, 2006 was a morale victory since the Reds were in contention until the last weekend. 2002 even seems like a highlight year since they remained within striking distance through the end of August.
Lets stop saying we want a competitive team on the field. There are really two ways to go about this, fill the roster with Jeff Conine types as stop gaps, and hope to get lucky one year, or to really let the young talent take the reigns, take our lumps, and have a pretty good team in time. Why sign Mike Cameron when you have Chris Dickerson? Why sign a veteran starting pitcher when you have Harang, Volquez, Cueto, and Arroyo inked into the rotation, and Owings, Bailey, Thompson, Ramirez, Lecure, and Maloney, who may be able to step into the big leagues and be average or better starting pitchers next year?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce, Votto and the next best thing
I do see these guys as the future for the next five plus years. This game is a marathon not a sprint.they need rest.and they both need veteran leadership. So who ever is added to the team needs to be a mentor type of player and a producer.
Great blog.gives everyone to think what can this organization do now to compete.??
what is the best chemistry of players to make it all the way to October.???
Pitching is there anyone out there that can be almost a dominate as Rijo did soo many years past.
In total technical retrospect the outfield is definitely in dire need of a left fielder that is right handed bat.and who will fill in during rest periods.
by image21972 on Jan 4, 2009 8:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I bet if Cincinnati signed Manny and Dunn,
and found a way to trade for David wright they would compete next year. Oh get Peavy too.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
peavy?
i’d rather trade for hamels and johan santana
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 4, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lets get all three
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In total technical retrospect
This is a great clause. Every sentence can be improved by adding this.
by Red Menace on Jan 4, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In total technical retrospect
no it can’t. :-)
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jan 4, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a great mix
Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!
"Read it and Weep" Slyde is right!
by image21972 on Jan 4, 2009 8:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Didn't this used to be someone's signature?
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 4, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yep, it was ben nevis
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 4, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so winning games doesn't win championships?
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on Jan 4, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
small market
I don’t see how some people don’t understand economics. We are a small market. The only way a small market team can compete is to build on young players and actually give their young players an opportunity to play and compete. Look at other small markets that have recently succeeded, Tampa Bay, Florida, Oakland, Minnesota. They didn’t get to be contenders by benching their prospects in lieu of journeymen.
by masked fan on Jan 4, 2009 11:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think 2006 Detroit is a good example (forget what they did since then). They knew they had most the pieces, and went out and finished the deal with Kenny Rogers and Pudge. If the Reds could bring in a couple of real impact players I think they could do something. But it is a bad market. If they brought in Taviris as a 4th outfielder, added Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn, and got Beltre at 3rd, this team would be signicantly better. They could trade EdE for a helpful piece. Hernedez and Taveris are polish not shoes.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on Jan 5, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
flag'd
for the most stupid misspellings of “Taveras” ive seen since the signing. honestly justin, you’ve seen this guy’s name like a million times this past week and you still cant spell it correctly?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 5, 2009 8:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
great idea for a nickname though:
Willy Ta-virus
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 5, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
X marks the spot
the Yankees are rumored to wanting to move two outfielders and Nady is one of them.it would be cool to get him.he’s a lot cheaper than most and has some pop and a lot of average.can move runners.makes some sense.or Reds can go after the big donkey again.Nady is owed like 4 million this season.Dunn is wanting 14 million or better.oh well since the Reds didn’t get Burrell for cheap.obvious the power is in the hands of Votto and Bruce.can use Nady as a base mover.right handed bat and .300 hitter.much better fielder than any on the open market.
"Read it and Weep" Slyde is right!
by image21972 on Jan 5, 2009 8:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
spaces come after periods
and periods don’t go all the places you think they do
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 5, 2009 8:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
/reply'd
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 5, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
and periods don’t go all the places you think they do
tell that to my ex-girlfriend with endomitrosis.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on Jan 5, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ain't that what Crolfer's going study at college?
Endomitrosis.
Lingus and Peppermint Panties can blow me.
M. Ville
by Madville on Jan 6, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what's her number?
actually post a pic
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on Jan 6, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
