Dunn Asking for 4 Years, $56 Mil
Per MLBTradeRumors.com ... Assuming he'd even think about coming here, would you bite on that. i'd say that's one hell of a deal .... Fire up the heated debate ... would you bite on this deal. I would say yes. To get what we got from Arizona and still get Dunn at that price seems to put it over the top for me. The big bat market has just been horrible this year. So, what do you think?
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14 million for 40 homeruns?
seems like a good deal to me
Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.
by chandrathan on
Jan 13, 2009 1:14 PM EST
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I'd say that, given what sluggers have been going for, a smart team could get the price down a little
But for him to come back to Cinci? We wouldn’t get him for anything less than he’s asking. Of course, what he’s asking seems pretty reasonable.
by Brendanukkah on
Jan 13, 2009 1:17 PM EST
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Of course the Reds would never do it...
But of course they should.
We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.
by Gray on
Jan 13, 2009 1:25 PM EST
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I would want to cut the years down to
three, but I never thought they should have traded him. As an added bonus, Marty and “Cowboy” would drop dead from strokes….
win/win
by timb116 on
Jan 13, 2009 1:28 PM EST
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my wife wanted to marty as a pick for the death pool
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on
Jan 13, 2009 1:54 PM EST
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me'd
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on
Jan 13, 2009 1:55 PM EST
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What does it mean to marty?
Is martying like martyring yourself?
We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.
by Gray on
Jan 13, 2009 3:25 PM EST
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my first green rec'd and it was because of a grammar error ... sigh
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on
Jan 13, 2009 5:58 PM EST
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?
you didn’t get a green rec…
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on
Jan 13, 2009 9:50 PM EST
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I waited on this guy a couple of times
The guy who did the “Oops I crapped my pants” commercial, I mean. He used to come into a restaurant where I worked. I recognized him and asked if he was that guy. He seemed pleased to be recognized, then proceeded to tell me an endless succession of lame jokes. Every time I walked by his table (he was alone) he stopped me to tell me another, and they were always long, multi-part jokes. When it started to get busy it was a bit of a pain in the ass to have this guy continually monopolize my time, but the whole thing just seemed a little sad — old guy alone and all that — so I always laughed and asked him questions about his career.
And that is officially way more than anybody ever needed to know abot the “Ooops I crapped my pants” guy.
by ctnyc on
Jan 13, 2009 7:25 PM EST
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Huh
Did he ask for a gallon ice tea?
by Brendanukkah on
Jan 13, 2009 9:56 PM EST
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How'd he tip?
We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.
by Gray on
Jan 13, 2009 11:15 PM EST
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In his chat, Neyer just said that Dunn's not worth 14 million / year
He said it’s more likely he’ll get 10-12 million per.
Even better.
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on
Jan 13, 2009 1:32 PM EST
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Nope
2 years at 14 million a year? Sure. Not 4. I am not a fan of committing big money and more than 2 years to guys who only bring value on one side of the ball. Dunn provides negative defensive value and after those two years is going to be on the wrong side of the bell curve, which will not only likely lead to some decline offensively, but doesn’t bode well for his already terrible defense.
Given the Reds having 5 options who could be ready for LF by mid 2010 (Dorn, Dickerson, Alonso pushing Votto to LF, Frazier and Francisco) and will be able to do it on the cheap… I just can’t support any move bringing in a one sided player for LF for more than 2 years.
by dougdirt on
Jan 13, 2009 1:42 PM EST
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You say this as though we're automatically granting Dunn a no-trade clause.
We can sign him for 4 years, play him for 2 years, and then trade him, or a similar notion. When prospects force our hand, we can make deals to alleviate the logjam then as long as the contract is not outlandish – which this contract would not be.
LOOGIES would have a field day against us, but apparently that doesn’t matter statistically enough, so it’s irrelevant, and I cannot discuss it further, lest the RR regs crap themselves.
Considering that the Reds are likely to still sign someone for $4-6M/yr, would it be worth an extra $6M to get someone who will actually deliver?
Also, do you think the fans would welcome him back in a more friendly way then they treated him generally?
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on
Jan 13, 2009 5:34 PM EST
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I gotta be honest
I hate comments like this:
“LOOGIES would have a field day against us, but apparently that doesn’t matter statistically enough, so it’s irrelevant, and I cannot discuss it further, lest the RR regs crap themselves.”
I don’t know anybody on this site that tells people to stop talking about any topic regarding baseball – except for people who demand that we stop talking about Adam Dunn. And I’m tired of people who use stats getting blamed for stifling conversation when it doesn’t happen. If you have a point to make it, state it. Don’t use this passive-aggressive crap to make it sound like you’re not allowed to have a different opinion on this site.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Jan 13, 2009 5:41 PM EST
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This reminds me of how you jumped my case last time.
None of the regs have told me to stop talking about anything, but in the last LOOGY discussion, the idea was ripped to shreds – and not open-mindedly. The first reply, specifically, was “This is prosius horseshit.” Now THERE’S some civil discourse. This, just for discussing that a LOOGY could hurt a lefty-heavy lineup. Also, in that thread, no one persuaded me with statistical evidence to the contrary….No such evidence was presented. I was simply ridiculed instead. In fact, that thread even included a request from a reg that you make sure that that day’s thread did not mushroom into a larger, uglier thread as it had in the past.
Here I throw the notion out there, careful to stifle a larger conversation with some TYPICAL self-effacing humor so that this doesn’t become an issue…and you label my post as passive-aggressive crap and use me as an example for some larger soapbox point of your own. And this is done under the cloak of the concept that no one is stifled here, when you just unfairly jumped my case – effectively stifling my comments.
Do you think your last comment is fair and reasonable? I sure don’t.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on
Jan 13, 2009 8:07 PM EST
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Statistical evidence that loogies wouldn't work through all lefty lineups
Joey Votto vsL ..356OBP/.477SLG
Adam Dunn vsL .359OBP/.474SLG
Those two guys hit lefties better than most of the rest of the lineup hits. Bring in a lefty to get them out…. those guys still would have been the Reds leading hitters last season with those numbers.
by dougdirt on
Jan 13, 2009 8:26 PM EST
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I am not interested in starting a LOOGY debate.
I am soooo over this.
I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck
by PeteyHendrix on
Jan 13, 2009 8:37 PM EST
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speaking of loogies
I remember a Brewers game thread when where Votto was up and Field Commander Yost brought in a loogy. I mentioned that the guy did pretty well against lefties and got jumped as a rube. It was early in the season and he didn’t have a big number of ABs so it was dismissed as just a small sample anomaly. He proceeded to get a hit which proved nothing.
Whew… I feel better now.
by ol Pete on
Jan 14, 2009 7:59 AM EST
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i know you don't want to talk about it
but I think most of us feel that LOOGY’S serve a useful purpose. Over the past few seasons Griffey was a much better hitter when he faced a right handed pitcher. But I would rather have a good left handed hitter than a mediocre right handed hitter. Wouldn’t it be great to have a lineup with 4 lefties and 4 righties or just 8 switch hitters, sure it would. If nothing else (no statistical evidence just a hunch) managers would burn through their bullpen a lot faster playing match up.
But…
I don’t feel like looking up the splits but as Doug said Votto is hitter very well against left handed pitching, and I know for a while (if not all of) last season Votto hit better against left handed pitching. To go along with that I believe Bill Bray had an easier time getting right handed hitters out (as does/did Tom Glavine).
Overall left handed pitchers are more successful against left handed hitters than right handed pitchers (and vice versa). But I would rather have a bullpen of 7 good right handed pitchers than 5 good right handed pitchers and 2 bad lefties. I feel that you can’t just throw a left handed pitcher out there because a group of lefties are batting, because their may be little statistical difference between how the hitters perform against lefties and righties. Of course if you have 3 guys with Ken Griffey Jr. like splits due up, yeah a LOOGY is nice to have.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on
Jan 13, 2009 10:00 PM EST
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I apologize for my tone
I’ll admit that I let outside issues affect my attitude on this one.
But I feel like, and this is not just you, that there has been a lot of “I guess we can’t talk about that anymore” going on around here. And I honestly don’t know why. I feel like a lot of times it comes from someone that doesn’t necessarily have the stats on their side, so they just give up. I’ve never felt that statistics were required to win an argument around here. Yes, I believe that they can make your argument stronger, but I’ve been convinced of things that I didn’t expect by people like Thundering Turtle and Caleb, guys who hardly ever use advanced stats to make a point. Do you feel like there is an environment here that doesn’t allow for a variety of ideas?
I don’t recall the previous LOOGY conversation – the horseshit conversation was definitely about EdE. And the unnecessary attacks aside, I felt like that thread was an interesting discussion, even if it did get a little heated. I’m sorry if that thread made you feel like the site stifles conversations, but that’s not what I took away from it.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Jan 13, 2009 10:01 PM EST
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Oh yeah?
Well……YOUR FACE.
"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST
by jch24 on
Jan 13, 2009 10:03 PM EST
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can't you ever be serious?
asshole
Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.
by chandrathan on
Jan 13, 2009 10:05 PM EST
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WHOA!
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on
Jan 13, 2009 10:07 PM EST
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Serious? I got yer serious.

"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST
by jch24 on
Jan 13, 2009 10:10 PM EST
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Petey
No offense, but I went looking through your comment history. I genuinely wondered if you had ever been attacked for advocating that the team not be so lefty heavy. Please point me to something I missed because I don’t see it at all.
Here’s the big “should the team exclusively focus on a right handed bat” thread. You and Slyde have a nice back and forth. As early as last August you were warning about a lefty pitcher shutting us down and there was no disagreement. Here in December you seem a bit testy on the subject (the lefty thing IS real, gang), but I’m not sure what set that off.
(aside—I think the most commonly held viewpoint here on the matter (and there are many views) is that ideally the Reds need a right handed bat. But the team needs a good deal of offense so if I righty bat can not be acquired maybe a left handed one will do. The fear among many is that the team will seek out a worse player simply because they bat righty. I don’t think you’ve disagreed with that. And in no way does the sabermetric movement dismiss platoon splits. Far from it.)
Here’s the horseshit exchange. It was about Edwin Encarnacion’s hustle. I just re-read it and I think it was a fine thread, although definitely one of our more tense. Look, Man Mountain called your post horseshit. That’s what he does. He calls people’s ideas horseshit. This is the internet. We’ve all been called far worse. Then the two of you seemed to have a decent dialogue. I wouldn’t think it would still be bothering you as much as this post makes it seem.
A lot of people disagreed with you on the hustle thing. I know that can make it feel like this is a closed community or that dissent is squashed. I’ve been in positions where I’m the only one advocating something. But we soldier on in those cases. I thought you handled it well. You took offense at one point that you were repeatedly being misquoted, but I think we were simply talking about vaguely defined terms and the discussion was shifting. And it should be noted you were not alone in your opinion.
But I agreed with Slyde here. This is what he’s talking about. “Around here it’s heresy so type it quietly…” Again, what prompted that? And I think passive-aggressive is a pretty good description. It reminds me of the shots at the age 27 thing that you were kind of, sort of taking, but not really.
I know it’s a dick move on my part to pull out your comment history looking for patterns. Feel free to do the same to me (or to call me out if you ever think I’m for of shit). But when you’re making blanket accusations of group think and de factor censorship I think it’s warranted.
I just don’t think you’ve been as persecuted here as you seem to believe.
by Red Menace on
Jan 14, 2009 1:07 AM EST
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this part of the now infamous horseshit exchange could warrant petey's comment:
“I don’t see how anything we might say would convince you. You seem to have come to your own conclusion, and I can’t imagine what would sway you.”
It’s the “we” part and the implication that anything he says is wrong. Reading that, I can see why someone would write this:
LOOGIES would have a field day against us, but apparently that doesn’t matter statistically enough, so it’s irrelevant, and I cannot discuss it further, lest the RR regs crap themselves.
by Daedalus on
Jan 14, 2009 1:50 AM EST
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I disagree with you about Temple of Doom
Nigh unwatchable!
by Brendanukkah on
Jan 14, 2009 10:00 AM EST
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I'm this close to throwing a flaming kebab through your chest
by Red Menace on
Jan 14, 2009 2:44 PM EST
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obligatory

"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST
by jch24 on
Jan 14, 2009 3:00 PM EST
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I'm no doctor
but that looks like heart burn.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Jan 14, 2009 3:03 PM EST
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Yeah, I thought about posting it
Then I remembered I used it in my Purple Prose Index.
by Brendanukkah on
Jan 14, 2009 3:08 PM EST
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Purple Prose Index??
what the hell was that? that dates from just about a week after i joined, so i guess i missed something pretty special.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Jan 14, 2009 3:49 PM EST
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what slyde said
it was a response to RJ Vagilick and his HEAT index
he was so hot back then
Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.
by chandrathan on
Jan 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST
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Man those were good times.
That was one of my weekly favorites..
Education is what you get from reading the directions. Experience is what you get from not reading them.
by snohio on
Jan 15, 2009 12:31 PM EST
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at that price, i'd pass
i love Dunner and all, but he’s just not worth that kind of money. and the way this team is built right now, i dont want to give out a long term deal. if he were take something like 2/22, i would be all up ons that. unfortunately he would never come back here for such a deal.
here is Dunn’s yearly values in dollar-terms through his career:
9.7 mil
4.5
15.7
9.2
7.4
12.8
8.7
so he’s been worth ~10 mil per year over his career. oh, and he really is a DH, so he should sign in the AL.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Jan 13, 2009 1:43 PM EST
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it's funny you say DH because the two teams reported to be after him are Washington and ATL
"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.
by joshuar9476 on
Jan 13, 2009 1:55 PM EST
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I wish he would hurry up and sign somewhere
I’m ready to move on.
And I wouldn’t give him 4 years.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Jan 13, 2009 1:59 PM EST
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Nope.
Not with the deal Burrell got. Dougdirt makes sense.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on
Jan 13, 2009 2:09 PM EST
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3 years 33 mill
If he’s going for less than what he thinks he’s worth, he might go for a shorter deal.
Bruce Bonser? Boone Bonser? Boot Bonser? BOOSE BONZER?
by Lakeman on
Jan 13, 2009 3:00 PM EST
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I'm just happy that Houston already has Carlos Lee
because I would cry so so hard to see Dunn play often against the Reds.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Jan 13, 2009 3:03 PM EST
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GET ON THE PHONE, WALT!
by Daedalus on
Jan 13, 2009 3:20 PM EST
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Don't hold your breath.
We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.
by Gray on
Jan 13, 2009 3:26 PM EST
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don't want to marty yourself
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Jan 13, 2009 5:51 PM EST
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No. Not worth $14 million a year.
I just wish we could have given Burrell what TB gave him (or even 10% more). That would have been the move to make.
No, I'm not Reynard's Ass either.
by Paul Householder on
Jan 13, 2009 4:56 PM EST
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I'm done with Dunn
find me a right handed bat
90 wins in 09!!
by Caleb on
Jan 13, 2009 8:20 PM EST
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No, but Kearns probably could with a 12 pack and a smile.
"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST
by jch24 on
Jan 13, 2009 9:06 PM EST
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Kearn's gets
DUNN’D!
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.
by justin007000 on
Jan 13, 2009 9:28 PM EST
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Derel Lowe gets 60M from Atlanta for 4years...
Mads, he is a crazy old man. Plus we have kinda had the same sabrametric evolution togeather.
Justin
by Madville on
Jan 14, 2009 9:25 PM EST
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