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Why I Have a Love/Hate Relationship With This Organization

All off season we speak of needing a right handed bat with power to put in the corner outfield, and now as we near Spring Training we still dont have one. The #1 free agent this offseason fits our needs and then some.

I think the fact that we are not signing Manny Ramirez shows the lack of commitment this organization really has to winning. Over and over we have failed to put a respectable team on the field, and with Manny I believe we could win the division or wild card this year, opening the chance for more.

Now I have seen the graphs and such about where our win projections would be with Manny, and how many more runs a game we would score, and I think that is nice, but I think Manny is such a dynamic player that the stats underestimate what he could do for this team.

Think About this line-up....

1. Taveras

2. Votto

3. Ramirez

4. Bruce

5. Encarnacion

6. B-Phil

7. Gonzalez

8. Hernandez

9. Pitcher

This went from being a line-up with little hope of scoring runs, to what looks like a powerhouse....with Manny in between, you could give the young Votto and Bruce confidence early in their careers, maximazing their talent quickly. Youre not just paying for Manny (who is a badass) but the money put towards him makes every player around him more valuable, and it makes the team better, and thus fills the seats.

I know people dont like Willy T.....but when he does get on base he is fast enough to get a pitcher to worry about him and make a mistake at the plate. Votto can spray the field with line-drives...A single could score Willy from first many times....apart from mistake pitches, Manny would be behind Votto, the pitcher is going to go after Joey rather than give Manny a chance.....Votto could have an explosive year. I think Ede and Bruce are interchangeable in the order, both capable of having big years....the rest of the order can put the ball out of the park until the pitcher...christ you have 20 HR potential at the 7 and 8 spots, and 30+ potential in 2-6.

I think there is a well balanced team with the potential to have a good defense. obviously Manny doesnt help it, but fielding balls off the Green Monster probably didnt help his career defensive statistics much. Taveras is fast enough to play half of Manny`s position anyway. Put Bruce behind Ede in LF to back him up then Manny is RF if it is that big of a concern.

I dont think Manny has shown any decline in his ability to play the game, and I think if you signed him to 3 or 4 years you could get a "bargain" for Manny (compared to what others offer) It would show your fans that you actually want to win, and don`t want to just talk about it. I think he could put up some of his best numbers in GABP, His numbers would diminish, that is for sure.

I have heard "win this year" or "win next year" or "win in a couple years" too often, its just excuses. Too often I laugh at the Pirates as an organization, only to realize we havent really done much better.

The last time I can honestly say I believed we would be good was right after we signed Griffey, and I can`t say I honestly have ever since. We won`t this year, there is a big dropoff after Manny when it comes to filling our "need" and "priority" for a RH power bat OF. Cough up the god damn money, there is no salary cap in baseball, and the teams that win are the teams that pay. The Yankees arent a dynasty because God likes them, its because they pay money. Look at the Red Sox, god-damn them....they sign top free agents every year, even though the Mick-Rats have a better team that most of the MLB at the end of every season.

The Cubs will win the division this year because they bought their team, the Brewers bought C.C. and it did wonder, the Cardinals have PoopHoles, and with less talent than us, they out-do us every year....this is the ultimate team sport but it is also the ultimate individual sport.....1 man can make a team go from suck-champions..Walt knows what 1 bat can do for a team....so do it.

We should sign Manny, and I think there is more good than bad that could come from it. our young hitters would have gotten to learn from Griffey and Manny, two of the sweetest hitters to grace the game. If our young outfielders were developed enough down the line, we could trade him after 1 or even 2 years for more prospects to dump money.

I think this offense with our rotation is a damn good team.....this is the first year we have relative locks 1-4 in the rotation instead of 1 lock or 1-2 locked up....and we have enough young prospects to make the #5 starter a damn good one.

I think our bench is underrated as well, this team all of the sudden has depth with Hopper, Dickerson, Hairston, Keppinger, and Hanigan...we will see what Richar and Castillo can do....I`m not sure what it will be.

I just won`t accept the fact that he is too expensive, its just a real puss way to play the GM game or the owner game for that matter....its a cop-out, instead of trading for someone, we would lose nothing, but possibly gain everything....I think Manny would make this franchise a lot of money, just think about jersey sales alone. This is how you build a fu**ing dynasty, you dont just wait to get a Colorado Rockies type team that is lucky enough to get to the World Series.....I think that is and has been our approach to this game as an organization for years, try to see what you can do with the minimum effort and money....I`m sick of it. Seriously, suck it front office, I know you well enough, if we did get to the World Series you would just dump all our good players for prospects and start this painful cycle of Redness all over again. Suck. It.

There are a ton of Reds fan in Cinci, throughout Ohio, and the country, if you gave them a team worth spending 3 hours, 1/3 of the year watching then you would get your money back. But for the most part people realize the franchise is phoney B.S. and we dont have the balls to get someone of Manny`s calibur. If you build it.........

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Cost is one thing

You have to wonder how effective he’ll continue to be. He’ll be 37 next year, and while he hasn’t shown any signs of slowing down yet (in fact, the jump to the NL seemed to reinvigorate him), it might just be a matter of time till we’re stuck with a Griffey-like contract, Griffey-like defense, and Griffey-like production.

All that said, I would love to land Manny on the team. It’s a risk, but I don’t think I’d mind a four year deal.

by Brendanukkah on Jan 12, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I had to edit

The first draft looked 2nd-grade-esque

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 1:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would love to have Manny's bat in this line up too

and believe he’s probably the only player left who could, by his acquisition alone, drive the team to a winning record.

But, honestly, I’d rather have the Reds rebuild — if that is indeed what they’re doing — than spend an absurd bundle to get Manny here. The possibility that we get all the headaches of Mannydom is just too high at the price.

Oh, and…

I know people dont like Willy T…..but when he does get on base he is fast enough to get a pitcher to worry about him and make a mistake at the plate, Votto can spray the field with line-drives…A single could score him from first many times….apart from mistake pitches Manny would be behind him, the pitcher is going to go after Joey rather than give Manny a chance…..I think Ede and Bruce are interchangeable in the order….the reast of the order after that can all put the ball out of the park…

I haven’t looked at this particular subject in a while, but isn’t “protection” still considered something of a myth? Isn’t it also unclear whether having a successful base stealer on base helps the next batter at all?

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Jan 12, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

protection

its not a total myth. a pitcher must work much harder against a stacked, talented lineup as opposed to a weaker batting order. its easier to pitch around Jason Bay when he’s with the Pirates as opposed to with the Red Sox. pitchers fatigue quicker because they are putting max effort into most every pitch.

just my opinion.

by obc2 on Jan 12, 2009 1:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know that makes sense intuitively

but I wonder if it a) actually bears out statistically and b) if it does, is it a significant help?

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Jan 12, 2009 2:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it does

I think if you looked at the career numbers of a player, and then how their numbers were when batting in front of or after a complete stud you would see a difference..I guess to define a stud you would have to have a certain OBP, maybe take some of the people batting around the likes of Manny, Poo-holes, Griffey in his prime etc…

The whole thing is that someone like Votto is going to see pitches with Manny behind him. There is a definite effect on the game. When I was catching if there was a well known hitter in our league coming up to bat, I want the pitcher to throw less breaking balls that could possibly miss the k zone, I dont want to walk someone with Billy Badass coming up to bat next….This provides a situation where I am holding back a little bit on my movement, and would really like to get a ground out…kind of a paradox….I had the pitcher trying to place pitches more, and couldnt emphasize how important it was to get that out before the stud comes up.

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 4:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

again

makes sense intuitively, but I don’t think the numbers necessarily bear it out. I don’t think hitters truly hit better just because a better hitter is behind them.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 12, 2009 5:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

by all means

Do a study like the one you’re proposing. Baseball-Reference.com has everything you need. A lot of people would be really interested if you found evidence for a protection effect.

by Red Menace on Jan 12, 2009 9:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

(I was in the middle of typing this when Slyde posted the exact same thing I was going to say. Jackass.)

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Jan 12, 2009 2:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the last I read

there is little evidence that “protection” leads to better production. However, I believe that obc’s point about wearing a pitcher down may be valid. I’m not sure what kind of study has been done on that (i.e. pitchers don’t last as long against well protected lineups).

The last study I saw on base stealers creating havoc was that it was as much of a distraction to the hitter as it is the pitcher. That was a couple of years ago, so I don’t know if it has been looked at further.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 12, 2009 2:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

In The Book, they showed that a disruptive baserunner has more of an impact on the hitter than the pitcher, and it’s negative.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Jan 12, 2009 2:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I couldn't remember where I read it, so I didn't want to speak definitively

but yeah, now that I remember, this is from The Book:

The disruptive runner has an enormous negative influence on the batter, enough to almost completely offset the disruption caused to the defense. (p.326)

Basically they say that having a fast, disruptive base runner (i.e. a speedy SB threat), is actually less valuable to the hitter at the plate than having an average, non-SB threat base runner on first. Hitters tend to be much more productive with the latter group compared to the former.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 12, 2009 2:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just dont trust random quote from an unoriginal book name.

The batter`s concentration is going to not be as accute with a runner on first, and if it is a speedster more pressure is on to make contact. Batting is muscle memory, the ability for mechanics to twitch fast enough, a lot of things have to go right biolgically for a hit.

I think this is a case where statistics get in the way. It comes down to concentrating on every pitch, and unless you are given the bunt sign or hit and run, you shouldnt really let the runner dive too far into your thought process at the plate, but this is hard to do, the runner is in your sight, you know you are supposed to get him over…of course you are going to be thinking about getting him over, the object of the game is to do this. More pressure, more tension….

If a hitter`s numbers are better with no men on base, but drop substantially when a speedy runner is on base what would this statistic tell us?

That statistically if you want to be a better hitter, you shouldn`t bother having people try to advance bases quickly…..which defeats the whole goal of the game.

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's not what I wrote

The point was that hitters generally hit better with men on first base because of the pressure put on the defense. However, that advantage for the hitter is actually lessened significantly when there is a disruptive runner on first base. The author’s do not hypothesize much as to why this is, just that it is. It could be because the hitter is forced to let good pitches go by in order to give the runner a chance to steal. It could be because the hitter hates the runner and doesn’t want him to score. Whatever.

And you are more than welcome to go out and buy the book. I’m not quoting the whole damn chapter here.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 12, 2009 5:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you "don't trust a random quote from an unoriginal book name"

which is actually a “reasonable conclusion reached by organized and wide-spread analysis of offensive output” but you are willing to confirm the veracity of “protection” by extrapolating from your time playing high school baseball?

“2nd-grade-esque” indeed

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Jan 12, 2009 5:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Protection

I know it sounds crazy that we’re skeptical of protection to varying degrees. None of us hold this position because it’s what our fathers told us as we sat on their laps at our first game. On the contrary we grew up believing in protection just like everyone else. At some point we read Bill James, Rob Neyer or some such gatekeeper and heard this crazy notion. After exploring it more, we reached our current nutty conclusion which contradicts so much traditional baseball knowledge (this is one reason why sabermetric fans often come across as obnoxious. We see our position as more evolved).

I know the reasons why it seems like protection should be a powerful force. But I’ve seen too many studies where it hasn’t been found, or has been found to exist in an extremely small degree. By all means you should check out The Book. Also:

The Protection Mini-FAQ by David Marasco.

David Grabiner’s study based on the 1991 season.

Dylan Wright’s study of the 2002 NL.

JC Bradbury wrote a very in depth paper on protection, but his university seems to have taken it down. Here’s a bit of summary.

You don’t need to agree with these findings. But I think anyone who loves baseball, who hears that so many smart people are holding to such a seemingly wild concept would be interested in learning more. Please take a look at these and let us know what you think.

by Red Menace on Jan 12, 2009 10:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Reds #11 prospect (as established by RR)

wrote “The Protection Mini-FAQ”?

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Jan 13, 2009 9:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Protection works better than 'just say go'

Mads, he is a crazy old man. Plus we have kinda had the same sabrametric evolution togeather.

Justin

by Madville on Jan 13, 2009 10:13 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sabermetrics has yet to study

protection vs. pull-and-pray. We don’t tend to get far enough to worry about it.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 13, 2009 10:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fly a kite

Manny would never, never consider signing with the Reds. Period. I cant say that I blame him either. Why would any Type A free agent sign with Cincy?

Sorry gang the track record speaks for itself.

by obc2 on Jan 12, 2009 1:57 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If they pay him and give him 3-4 years he will come here

Manny is “just Manny” half of the time because he doesnt feel appreciated, if we went out and showed him we believe in him to have 3-4 in him and pay him, the fans would worship him, he knows how good he is and what he can do to a team, and I think after looking at the team he would be interested.

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 2:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you don't think that if we offered 3 years, $75M, that Manny wouldn't come?

oh, we’re Reds fans. gotcha..

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Jan 12, 2009 3:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The fact that in free agency....

An agent usually puts forward what a player wants…..how much money and how many years they want in a contract…..

If you give them that money and those years….said conclusion

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unless they're using you as a bargaining chip

Especially in an offseason when a team like the Yankees has shown the willingness to spend whatever it takes to bring in the best free agents. The Nats offered Mark Teixeira just as much money as the Yankees, and perhaps more, but he went to New York anyway, more than likely because they had a team that was likely to win, and Washington (and Cincinnati) did not.

by Brendanukkah on Jan 12, 2009 5:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, but he's comparable to Manny and was one of the two best hitters available

I’m just saying that there are other reasons besides money for a free agent to turn down or accept a particular team. Personally, I don’t see any reason Manny would choose the Reds over, say, the Yankees, Dodgers, or Angels, but maybe he misses living in Ohio.

by Brendanukkah on Jan 12, 2009 5:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It just sounds like something the front office would say

Im about 99.9% sure they havent even really looked at Manny. I think if the Dodgers pay him what he wants he will stay there, but at this point they are looking elsewhere.

I really dont think he wants to play for the Yanks, I think if he wanted to we would already have signed. They have probably put more money on the table than anyone else, or at least matched the highest team.

I could see him play for the Angels….they are good

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"I think if the Dodgers pay him what he wants he will stay there"

excellent analysis…

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Jan 12, 2009 5:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But what young players could he mentor

with his obvious and well-publicized leadership skills?

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Jan 12, 2009 5:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Overrated

Its baseball it isnt storming the beaches of Normandy, Dusty is accountable for the leadership of the team as the manager, and these guys arent 10 years old, they dont need to be babysay and have some mentor to teach them how to be a man. Thats what parents are for.

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 8:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i disagree

i think every player needs some babysay sometimes.

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 12, 2009 8:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 12, 2009 9:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You messed up your put down

If your going to attack my mispelling of babysat, at least sarcastically put it in the right context…….babysay was not in the structure of that sentence used as a person place or thing, so you could not use “some babysay”

The correct use would be that everyone needs to be “babysay” from time to time….or last week I babysay some minors, at a party hosted of course by justin007000 who loves giving alcohol to minors

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 1:53 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You`re

typing drunk is not the best way to type, but it is the most entertaining

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 1:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's funny

You’re correcting someone and use improper English in your correction. “Needs to be babysat?” Where the hell did you learn English?

by Daedalus on Jan 13, 2009 11:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do think winning teams are at an advantage

But I don’t think that was the only reason Teixeira passed on the Nats. He passed on Boston, too, and supposedly, the reason was that his wife wanted to live in NY.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 12, 2009 5:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another reason Teix went to NY

Any salary difference could be made up in huge endorsement dollars.

You went full retard. No one ever comes back from that. - Sgt. Osiris

by cesarhernandez on Jan 12, 2009 5:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you really think most Cincinnati Fans will worship

a power hitting left fielder, who plays terrible defense, and appears (in this case it is true) to have an attitude problem?

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 12, 2009 3:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ha

I had a conversation with a co-worker who’s convinced Bobby Abreu is the right fit for the Reds. He said (and I agree with him) that we should consider Adam Dunn. Marty, and half of Cincinnati, would throw a fit!

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Jan 12, 2009 3:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i would love to bring dunn back

it would be hilarious, I would love to read Doc’s article about that.

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 12, 2009 4:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey I forgot to say it a couple of weeks ago

but enjoy the inauguration. I still think it will be sheer madness, but hopefully something you remember.

Scotland in January... A brilliant choice

by chesirecat on Jan 12, 2009 6:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah i got tickets from a prof who some how landed 8

we are going to drive to Fredrick, MD, take a bus to DC, watch the inauguration, then we are going to Frederick and driving back to Ada. It will be interesting.

Thanks for doing everything you did to help Obama become our 44th President. If it weren’t for the hundreds of people like you we would be talking about President Clinton again…

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 12, 2009 6:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i went to a wedding in Frederick this past summer

there was a nice brewpub there. the pizza took an hour to come out, but they kept giving me free beer in the meantime.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 12, 2009 9:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My pleasure!

and it was more like thousands than hundreds. That trip… is going to suck big time, however.

Scotland in January... A brilliant choice

by chesirecat on Jan 12, 2009 9:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think it is worth it

yeah it seemed better when we had a place to stay in Baltimore, but I am still going to be there when Obama becomes the 44th President.

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 12, 2009 10:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only good thing about being there is...

being able to say you were there, I was at his speech in Columbus the Sunday before election night and I never even saw him, I heard his voice, and I waited in line for hours, but it was so packed in front of the big tv that I couldnt even see him in the third person as I heard him through second….

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 1:56 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm driving back to DC from Cleveland on the 19th

much like the guy said in 300, “This will take a long time and you will not enjoy it.”

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Jan 13, 2009 9:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least you don't have to go into Virginia

Since they’re closing the bridges from the District. I’m pretty sure the Woodrow Wilson Bridge will stay open though.

I’m getting out of Dodge for the weekend and heading to New Orleans. Although, I fly back into BWI on Tuesday. Getting home could be a process, but I’m just hoping that I’m going against most of the traffic.

by Brendanukkah on Jan 13, 2009 10:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

even baldelli didn't want to play here

and who could blame him. cincinnati runs its best players out of town. i wouldn’t want to play here, either.

by Daedalus on Jan 12, 2009 2:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

correction

i wouldn’t want to play here, either…unless I was a bad player. :)

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 12, 2009 2:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Correct me if I'm wrong

but didn’t Baldelli have New England ties? What player would turn down an opportunity to play for their hometown team that is a playoff contender to play for the Reds? I don’t think he looked at Cincinnati and said, “fuck you, Reds, I don’t want to play in Ohio” as much as he had a better opportunity on the table and he took it.

"You are not my ass." - Reynard

by BK on Jan 12, 2009 3:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I never heard about New England ties

but MLB Network said he did turn down the Reds for the same money as Boston before Boston offered him the money. That was a few days ago. Maybe I just misunderstood.

by Daedalus on Jan 12, 2009 4:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, Baldelli grew up a Red Sox fan

I remember when he made his first waves in Tampa, that fact was one of Peter Gammons first comments on him (shockingly). He speculated that the Red Sox would make a move for him when he hit free agency. This was before the illness and injuries however.

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Jan 12, 2009 4:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

actually

No franchise has more of a reputation for running star players out of town than Boston. But I guess Baldelli isn’t on that level.

by Red Menace on Jan 12, 2009 4:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fuck Rocco Baldelli and his amoebas

Were talking about the Red Sox, which Manny didnt want to be a part of anymore, and I`m guessing he wouldnt want to be a part of the Yankees either due to their shared ways.

Rocco isnt Manny, he wouldnt have made the impact, and he wasnt assured a starting position, and nobody really knows if he wanted one or could handle one.

Manny would be around young people so he could be goofy and still get respected, which is kind of his thing. I think he is more down to Earth than people think, he didnt like the Red Sox, and he expected the baseball team in Los Angeles to pay him a lot of money………I hate the Red Sox and I have seen L.A….there looks to be a lot of money there.

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Money in LA?

That’s where you go once you get money, silly.

by Brendanukkah on Jan 12, 2009 5:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also

I don’t think considering a player like Manny Ramirez too expensive for a particular club is the “puss way to play GM”; rather it seems to be the definition of what a GM does.

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Jan 12, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Puss owner

If your going to be a vagina about business you shouldnt own a baseball team you should own stock in Hannah Montana

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marge Schott

says “H(e)i(l)”

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Jan 12, 2009 5:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cue:

reynard’s ass

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 12, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

God please dont cue my ass

who ever it is, It makes me mad and gets me into trouble on the website

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it might be more appropriate

to cue Reynard’s vagina.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 12, 2009 5:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   2 recs

Oh Snap!

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Jan 12, 2009 5:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree with Reynard

im tired of this small-market bullshit. the payroll was 75 mil last year, why not bump it to 100 mil? of course, money does not buy you pennants, but it would certainly boost the quality of the team and invigorate the fanbase. if Bob came out and said “the losing stops NOW” and handed Walt one of those big novelty checks like from Publishers Clearinghouse, we would go nuts. offer Manny 2 years at 55 mil and let ‘er rip. what’s the worst that could happen?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 12, 2009 5:02 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The worst that could happen

Is that I would show up to more games, get hammered, then possibly get assaulted by 4-6 members of this website.

Thats a sacrifice Im willing to make

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OH AND I FORGOT

TAKE THE DAMN BOAT OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF THE DAMN STADIUM, UNTIL THEN, WE SHOULD CHANGE THE NAME TO TOY`S R` US FIELD.

YOU COULD MAKE CENTER FIELD DEEPER, ADD SEATS, AND ACTUALLY SEE THE RIVER. WHEN AN ORGANIZATION MAKES STUPID MOVES LIKE THAT IN THE STADIUM YOU CANT EXPECT TOO MUCH FROM THEM IN THE FIELD EITHER.

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I dunno

Looks more like a capitalized statement to me.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 12, 2009 5:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nope

but it is a capital idea!

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Jan 12, 2009 5:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Am I alone here?

Does nobody else hate the boat?

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No matter what you think about the boat

it’s sponsorship dollars, which ultimately go to payroll. If you want to increase the payroll, getting rid of sponsors is not the way to do it.

"You are not my ass." - Reynard

by BK on Jan 12, 2009 7:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For once I agree with Renard...the fucking boat is an embarrassment.

Mads, he is a crazy old man. Plus we have kinda had the same sabrametric evolution togeather.

Justin

by Madville on Jan 12, 2009 8:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah it's pretty stupid, but I don't despise it

I wish they did more to play up Cincinnati was the first baseball team and used to be a god-damn powerhouse. Fuck that osterich mother fucker Bud Selig and paint a Stalin-esk mural of PETE ROSE on a green monster style left field wall. I still don’t think a player’s actions a manager should effect his accomplishments as a player, but I am also smart enough to know Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire were on steriods which makes me a genius compared to Selig.

Cubs have Ivy
Red Sox the green monsta
We have a stupid steamboat.

In summary I hate Selig. Pete Rose and Eric Davis are the best players in the history of baseball, and Bob should buy that old lady’s baseball card and put it on display in our park.

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 12, 2009 10:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

'sup dave?

Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.

by chandrathan on Jan 12, 2009 11:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah I got a little carried away with my rant.........

MAYBE BECAUSE IT’S JANUARY AND THIS TEAM PROBABLY COULDN’T HIT ITSELF OUT OF A PAPERBAG.

I swear if Cherry is starting in LF on opening day, I may quit the reds for awhile.

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 12, 2009 11:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

not to worry

he’ll be at short!

Reds fan for 40 years!

by gejoe on Jan 14, 2009 5:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I hate the fucking boat

And have said as much many times. But at $10 million/year or whatever Cincinnati Bell is paying the Reds to have it there, it’s not going anywhere.

"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST

by jch24 on Jan 13, 2009 2:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bob's thinking

I made a $1M profit from this team last year, why not raise payroll $25M in the face of a down economy and see if I can lost $24M or more.

Maybe that’s why he doesn’t bump it up to $75M.

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Jan 12, 2009 6:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

while that makes a whole lot of sense to guys like you and me

Bob is basically a gozillionaire. he has more money than he knows what to do with, so 25 million dollars just isnt a lot of money to him. i mean, come on. owning a sports franchise should never be an investment opportunity, its just another way for old rich white bastards to have pissing contests. Steinbrenner understands that.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 12, 2009 6:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Steinbrenner also gets

an insane amount of greater revenues than most teams. Steinbrenner REALLY gets that.

Of course, Manny would bring increased revenues/fan interest/media attention to the Reds. I don’t think the Reds, however, could generate enough revenues with a Manny signing to completely offset his contract.

I do know that if Manny was a Red, I would definitely go to more games this season.

You went full retard. No one ever comes back from that. - Sgt. Osiris

by cesarhernandez on Jan 12, 2009 6:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

Griffey was one of the top players in 2000, and the fan interest/revenues in 2000 did not offset his cost. I feel like giving opportunities to Dorn, Stubbs, and Dickerson is the better way to go. While they will not produce like Manny does they may be more cost efficient, as far as production value per dollar.

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 12, 2009 7:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A lot more people would go to the games if our team was good

Its some vicious cycle that needs to be broken from…..If the boat stays because of endorsements, and the team stays because it made Bob 1 million dollars, and the name left for Cinergy, maybe I should just give up on this franchise and baseball.

It is the American past time, and now it is apparently the American modern time, a time when advertisements and pressure to make profit is shoved so far down your throat that you forget what created the ads and money originally, or forget how to do what you are supposed to.

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 8:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WE NEED A ECONOMIC STIMULUS

MANNY = ECONOMIC STIMULUS!!!!!!

Reynard you are a genius!!

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 12, 2009 11:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We cant compare government to baseball

In the real world, unlike the free market tells us, when times are bad economically, apparently the thing to do is raise prices of products instead of dropping them for competition.

During this time, 700 billion must be given to banks who will in turn not release that money to those who need loans. Now 700 billion more has been taken from the tax payers…..

Its the free market right? Economy is bad so you raise prices and tighten up everything, then after that you bail out banks who will only hold that money to wait for other banks to go under so they can buy them out…..

Then at this time the people have higher taxes and less money to spend on more expensive things!!! Its genius! We just blatantly use the media to scare people into thinking it is ok when the legislation in this country hijacks our wallets to widen the gap between rich and poor, while at the same time making formally rich people poor! Wonderful.

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 2:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My take on baseball owners

And sports franchise owners in general (except you hockey, you don’t count) is that above all else, these are BUSINESSMEN. They will rarely if ever consistently lose money. It’s just not the way they’re wired.

"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST

by jch24 on Jan 13, 2009 2:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and anybody who thinks that Baseball owners are truly losing money

is fooling themselves. They may not be making a ton of money, but there are too many people interested in jumping into the game for it to be a losing investment.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 13, 2009 2:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You dudes are looking at it wrong,

proving none of you have money to start with. Owning a baseball team is like owning stock. You pay when you get in (see the current President) and you get PPPPPAAAAAIIIIIIDDDDDD when you check out (see the current President, or Marge, or the Banana King, or any of a dozen owners who sold their team at a 150% profit).

Losing money from year to year ain’t no thang, as long as MLB comes clean with the revenue sharing money and you can sell your team for a 100 million dollar profit (after improvements made by taxpayers are added to the stadium, or you’ll move to ANOTHER city)!

Being a baseball owner is such a cherry gig, I remain pissed off that my Dad wasn’t a Senator and Vice President, so my last name was valuable enough to be the front man for a bunch of richer dudes.

by timb116 on Jan 13, 2009 3:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cool so in the case that is our managers thinking

We should probably have some sort of uprising and take our team back, put his head on a pole and stuff it with grass like in A Tale of Two Cities?

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 8:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But you didnt answer the question

I can see what a boat would be needed in Florida…..(Insert dead Cubans, old people, or Haitians joke here)

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A dead Cuban, an old person, and a Haitian walk into a bar...

Do I hate the riverboat? No. I live hundreds of miles away and don’t get to visit Great American Ball Park too often, nor do I get to see televised Reds games. The boat doesn’t bother me in the slightest. As for why it’s there, it pays homage to the days when Cincinnati was an important inland port and steamboats were the dominant, fastest method of transporting goods and passengers. A simpler time when baseball was folksy, other teams bitched about being outspent by the Red Stockings, and Cincinnati would go entire seasons without losing a game.

by Brendanukkah on Jan 12, 2009 5:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I like the riverboat too.....

it could be a better riverboat though…

at least it has some attachment to the city… unlike the stupid jetson stadium down river

Nobody listens to Andrew

by nlt-andrew68 on Jan 13, 2009 1:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

amen?

Yep. Amen.

I have nothing against GABP. It’s a nice park and I’ve enjoyed it all 3 times I’ve been there. I think it comapres pretty well to Jacobs in Cleveland, except OMG do Clevelanders CARE about their team (be it Cavs, Browns, or Indians).

GABP’s nice. The boat’s a little kitschy, sure. But I like that its not too close to the river…it allows Dunner’s interstate blast to be the thing of legends. And the Reds HOF is pretty much fantastic.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Jan 13, 2009 9:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

been to Oakland lately?

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 13, 2009 12:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Make no mistake

That boat pays homage to nothing more than cold hard cash. The batter’s eye used to be a restaurant open to the public. They built an eyesore on top of it and stopped letting the common folk in. You now have to be invited by Cincinnati Bell.

"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST

by jch24 on Jan 13, 2009 2:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pays homage in

advertisements apparently. Homage to a time where someone in Cinci was willing to pay enough money to put a good team on the field…

Pay homage to a time where people liked baseball because it was competitive, and everyone played in the streets or parks, when stadium were looked at like the coliseum, and people crowded around radios to listen to every game they could….times when profit from advertising did great because people went to the games, because every year they thought their team could have a chance……

People still do that but it is called football, and there is a salary cap

by Reynard on Jan 12, 2009 8:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YES

No Joel-Bert this year!
Cabrera signed with Baltimore.

by kennythered on Jan 12, 2009 8:58 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

are you serious?

Freel! Castro! Cabrera! Not a single catcher on the 40-man roster!

This team rocks.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Jan 12, 2009 9:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jolbert signed a minor league deal

So he’s not on the 40-man.

And they do have Chad Moeller, though he’s not on the 40-man either.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 12, 2009 9:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chad Moeller is like Paul Bako

except you waste time pronouncing more vowels in his name

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 2:06 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cough last name

cough never mind, after looking at the two names…cough shit cough

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 2:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hello? wieters?

They haven’t made the move to the 40 man yet but Wieters is their catcher.

by Daedalus on Jan 13, 2009 11:56 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Since your opinion is generally the polar opposite of mine

on a consistent basis, I’ve decided that you are my wife Reynard. I love you. May I go out drinking with the boys this weekend?

by Pops Daniels on Jan 13, 2009 9:39 AM EST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

there will be a couple of girls there too!

but we won’t share that with Reynard

Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.

by chandrathan on Jan 13, 2009 9:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's a relief

he’s prone to bouts of irrational jealousy.

by Pops Daniels on Jan 13, 2009 9:56 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I`ve been cheating on you with someone....

and now I have AIDS…have fun with the boys tonight!

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 12:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

reynard has aids

Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.

by chandrathan on Jan 13, 2009 1:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How was this not rec'd?

"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST

by jch24 on Jan 13, 2009 2:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is Veteran Presence coming back to the Reds?

Could be!

Apparently the Reds are talking to 41 year old Luis Gonzales about an outfield spot.

Tell me how that one makes sense.

Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.

by chandrathan on Jan 13, 2009 9:56 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude's got a ring

A RING!

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 13, 2009 10:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep that only adds to the Presence!

Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.

by chandrathan on Jan 13, 2009 10:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like presence

they are fun to open on Christmas Day!

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 13, 2009 10:31 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't like going to the doctor's office

because I can’t put up with all the patience

Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.

by chandrathan on Jan 13, 2009 10:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Holy Moses

Can you imagine the Arizona references from Thom once we sign LuGo? “He was the clubhouse leader for a world champion… who made everyone who spent 5 minutes with him a better person”

"You are not my ass." - Reynard

by BK on Jan 13, 2009 10:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

anyone see the fark headline about tebow's surgery?

Tebow has surgery, performed it himself without anesthesia and is expected to recover in 3-4 minutes

Also, I'm given to understand that your mother is overweight.

by chandrathan on Jan 13, 2009 10:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A ring

around the injection site?

by Pops Daniels on Jan 13, 2009 11:13 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One more boat comment.

Before the Reds stupidly erected that ridiculous piece of shit (Steamboat) there was an open feel with a great view at GABP. GABP was a really refreshing (esp. for cinti) venue to enjoy the game at. The boat typifies every thing crass, menial and predictable about the franchise. If there is a monument to the Red’s lack of creativity and originality that fucking ugly monstrosity is it. and what is it with having the extra steamboat ‘stacks’ off to side of the fucking albatross. I go to the park to see the game not to view a poorly executed ‘ride’ that would fail at King’s Island.

Mads, he is a crazy old man. Plus we have kinda had the same sabrametric evolution togeather.

Justin

by Madville on Jan 13, 2009 10:34 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, but when Adam Dunn was here...

He’d hit them through the stacks once in a while, and it would be a “field goal,” which is worth three runs.

No, I'm not Reynard's Ass either.

by Paul Householder on Jan 13, 2009 10:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but he only did that with bases loaded

which proved how unclutch he was.

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 13, 2009 10:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Obstructed view

Heh. One of the selling points of Nationals Park was that there would be great views of the Capitol dome. Then Ted Lerner, the Nats owner, built a tall building between the park and the Capitol which obstructed the view from some of the best seats. If you’re sitting just towards the first base side of home plate in the upper deck, it should theoretically give you a straight shot up Capitol St., but instead there’s some ugly, gray rectangular building in your way. Put there by the owner of the team!

by Brendanukkah on Jan 13, 2009 10:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

rich people are so eccentric

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 13, 2009 10:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Could have been a great shot of the river and bridge

deeper center fielder to give our pitchers a god damn break, and of course more seating that Reds wont fill

by Reynard on Jan 13, 2009 12:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The stacks were there originally, with the wheel

Kinda goofy, sure. But I didn’t mind because the view through the CF opening really was beautiful as the setting sun reflected off the river. I abhor the steamboat.

"I AM ARABIC FOR SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -- by sukr on Jan 12, 2009 4:55 PM EST

by jch24 on Jan 13, 2009 2:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

im a steamboat guy

i always sneak down to the pricey seats anyway so it never blocks my view.

by obc2 on Jan 14, 2009 8:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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