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Is Dusty Baker the Right Manager for Willy Taveras?

After reading Slyde's post on team speed (and especially this comment by our new friend Stock), I got to thinking about Dusty and how he handles the running game.  We all remember the baserunning follies from last year, watching time and again when Two-Pitch-At-Batterson and Farney ran the team out of an inning.  It looks like we are going to see a Reds team in '09 that relies more on creating havoc on the basepaths, and this led me to ask a few questions:  1) how does Dusty compare to other managers regarding the use of the running game, and 2) specifically regarding Willy Taveras, how has Dusty fared at using legitimate baserunning threats when he has them on the roster? 

More after the break...

Star-divide

Dusty got his first managing gig in 1993 with the Giants, and he stayed in San Fran for 10 seasons before moving on to the Cubs.  After 4 seasons he was fired, and he then spent a year with ESPN before getting the Reds gig last season.  That's 15 seasons that Dusty has managed a baseball team, so we should have a pretty good data set with which to work.  Let us remember, if you are stealing bases at less than a 70% rate, it's pretty much not worth trying.  So here are the SB/CS numbers for each of Dusty's teams, from 1993-2006, and 2008:

120/65
114/40
138/46
113/53
121/49
102/51
109/56
79/39
57/42
74/21
73/31
66/28
65/39
121/49
85/47

That adds up to 1437/656, which is a stolen base % of 68.6.  That isn't bad, actually.  The National League average last year was 73% (72.9% in the AL).  That does not reflect too well upon Dusty's base-stealing strategy.  But it is kind of unfair to compare Dusty's whole career to only last year's data:  total stolen bases have been on the decline since the early 90's while the success rate has been increasing since then.  People are stealing less often, but they aren't getting caught as often either.  So basically the times have changed since Dusty first saddled up.  Comparing Dusty's success rate to the rate of the entire NL in the years Dusty has managed reflects a little better on Dusty:  the NL average since 1993 is 69.7%.  So Dusty is still a bit below average, but not much.  Hooray!

Now on to Taveras.  (I'm not sure how legit my methodology is here, so if you smell something funky please call me out on it.)  I decided to look at all the "base-stealing threats" Dusty has managed over the years to see if they fared markedly worse under his tutelege.  I'm defining "base-stealing threat" as a player who attempted 10 steals in both the year Dusty managed him and the year before Dusty managed him.  To illustrate, here is an example:

In 1992, under manager Roger Craig, Royce Clayton's SB/CS was 8/4.  In '93, his first year under Dusty, Clayton's SB/CS was 11/10. 

My hypothesis is that this trend seen in Clayton's numbers (increased attempts and increased CS rate under Baker) is a trend we can track throughout Baker's career.  So I went back to every player Dusty managed that attempted 10 or more steals and checked what they did the year before, under a different manager.  Here's what I found:

There have been 21 "base-stealing threats" that Dusty has managed in his career, and 23 such instances as described above (Patterson and JHJ show up on the list twice).  These players are Robby Thompson, Royce Clayton, Barry Bonds, Darren Lewis, Willie McGee, Glenallen Hill, Mike Benjamin, Stan Javier, Jeff Kent, Darryl Hamilton, Frank-Paul Santangelo, Tom Goodwin, Reggie Sanders, Corey Patterson, Kenny Lofton, Derrek Lee, Jerry Hairston Jr, Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones, Brandon Phillips, and Ryan Freel.  Collectively, in the year before Dusty managed them these guys' SB/CS was 450/148, which is a SB% of 75.2.  So before Dusty got ahold of them, these guys were above average.  In the first year Dusty managed them, their SB/CS was 403/152, which is a SB% of 72.6.  So they got worse, but not because they were running more and getting caught more.  They actually attempted to steal less often under Dusty, they just didn't succeed as often.

So how does all this have anything to do with Willy Taveras?  Well, I'm not sure.  I did all this stuff expecting to see that Dusty is a bad manager when it comes to steals because he runs too often and at inopportune times, but I can't really say I've proved that in any way, significant or not.  Sure, he's a bit below average at calling for the swipe, but not embarrassingly so.  I'm not sure the whole exercise with the "base-stealing threats" is worth anything at all, because a number of factors (injuries, etc.) are left unaccounted for.  But the conclusion I come to is that Dusty is not the shoot-from-the-hip "unclog the bases" manager he's often characterized as, but rather one that merely isn't quite as good at the running game as his peers.  So to respond to Stock's comment, I don't think Taveras will steal 85 bases, but that probably doesn't have much to do with Dusty.

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excellent post

i liked this kind of analysis. It seems the Reds are going to field a team that will end up with a similar record to last years.

by cokane on Jan 10, 2009 2:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Did you normalize the SB attempts for plate appearances?

If you didn’t then you can’t conclude anything from your data. Its just numbers.

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 10, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd say times on base would be even more accurate.

but really, what you need to do in an examination like this is break each stolen base down by win value. Since attempting to steal is a choice, it’s value is tied more directly to the game situation. It makes no sense to steal in the late innings down by 5 runs (something the Reds did at least twice last year, as I recall). A proper study to evaluate a manager on this would be to compare the value of success to the cost of failure in each specific situation and then weight the stolen base attempts based on that. Then you’ll have a better idea of whether or not Dusty knows how to properly use the SB. I know such an examination is not easy to do, but I figured if we’re throwing ideas out there…

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 10, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed

Devoid of in-game context, it would be hard to get a sense of Baker from the general percentages of his teams. I expect that they’ll never go more than a few points above or below the league average. That his teams seem to be regularly worse than average is bad enough, particularly as he sees himself as a manager committed to a smart running game.

Which is why I’m so intrigued by the phrase “havoc on the base paths.”

It’s perfect.

While we all know how Jocketty and Co. mean it to be taken, the word itself doesn’t imply the Reds will be doing anything necessarily positive or smart as a baserunning team, just that they’ll be creating disorder and, perhaps, being destructive and wasteful as a result.

I don’t see how that’s a change from the baserunning philosophy last season. Maybe they’ll just be more of it.

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Jan 10, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah it would be nice to parse it out by win value

but i dont have the time or the numbers for that kind of analysis. i dont see how times on base or plate appearances would make it any sharper, as i think 10 or more attempts in a season is sufficient to label the guy a “runner”. all the guys listed here passed my eyeball test as runners too, so i left it at that. what would times on base add to it? im not seeing the connection.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 10, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well

Tonight ends the season of the team formerly known as the Houston Oilers.

I only just noticed that the Ravens have a Japanese guy on their team. The first in the NFL. From Cincinnati, no less.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2009 8:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

did he predate scott fujita?

wikipedia says he thinks of himself as half asian…

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Jan 10, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Fujita counts

He’s Caucasian, with a Japanese last name via his adopted dad. The reason there have been no Japanese NFL players is that Japanese tend to be small. Fujita obviously wouldn’t face the same barrier.

There have been other Asian players. A lot of Samoans, who tend to be big. And Dat Nyugen, the Vietnamese guy who everyone kept saying was too small to play football. He played for the Cowboys, very successfully. Injury ended his career, and he’s now a coach for the Cowboys.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't know

fujita’s parents are asian and he considers himself asian. who are we to say he isn’t asian?

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Jan 10, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

protocol

probably Asian-American.

by obc2 on Jan 10, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and

he was one helluva player for the Bearcats. Lance McAlister opening rooted for the Bengals to select him early on.

by obc2 on Jan 10, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fujita is Asian by culture

but not by race. i know it sounds like mincing words, but i think this is one instance where it is accurate.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 10, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Green Light

First I agree with Scrabbles that there is no need to normalize this over AB or times on base. I’d also be interested to see what happens if you increase the minimum criteria from 10 SB to 25 SB. Ten SB is too easy a figure to hit. Didn’t JB go 11/11 one year? I would never consider Bench a stolen base threat. I wonder how many times in those 11 attempts he wasn’t even being held close by the 1B.

It might be irrelevant. Don’t you guys think that if the plan is too sell tickets with the “creating havoc” slogan then Taveras will have the green light to go whenever he wants. Don’t you think he had the green light last year also? If people agree to both I don’t think the manager will affect Taveras’ success rate or # of SB as much as switching divisions. In 60 games vs. Western division opponents last year he stole 28 bases in 32 attempts. in 28 vs. the central he stole 8 bases in 8 attempts. So will switch divisions affect his final numbers? I don’t know but I do know that if I have Taveras on my fantasy team I bench him when Stl and Y Molina come to town and make sure he is in my lineup when Pit and R Doumit come to town.

by Stock on Jan 11, 2009 1:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

If I have Taveras on my fantasy team

I’m out looking for a stiff drink.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Baker

Dusty is not Walt’s guy. He’ll be gone by the first of August.

by Redsfanx on Jan 11, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

I suspect that Castellini consulted with Jocketty before hiring Baker. They’re old friends, and by the time Dusty was hired, they probably knew Jocketty was headed for the Reds.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 11, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps

but Dusty was hired on 10/12 and Jocketty was fired by the Cardinals on 10/3. Obviously there was time to talk to Jocketty, but do you think Jocketty was already thinking about being GM of the Reds at that point?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Jan 11, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Well, maybe not be GM…but he was thinking of joining the Reds, and may have had an offer by then.

That’s what people do when they’re fired. They reach out to their contacts.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 11, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dusty and Krivsky claimed that contact was first made in the summer of 2007

"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions!"- Dr. Stephen T. Colbert DFA.

by justin007000 on Jan 11, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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