2009 Reds Who's going, staying, coming in
As frustrating as this year has been, and with the hair trigger Bob Castellini has, what is to be expected for next year. For starters who among the Free Agent class might be interested in coming to Cincinnati, and how wide will Bob open his wallet to stop the losing. Would they possibly consider an aging Ramirez for a Left Field solution? Would Matt Holiday be an answer? Or do they sign a Sabathia and trade some of the young pitching (Thompson, Bailey) to fill a catching or outfield hole. Does Drew Stubbs appear to be any kind of answer, or is Chris Dickerson for real?
This post could go in any direction, Who would you bring in, let go and keep?
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Comments
I'd keep the whole team
but I’m a sadist, so you know….
Overserved and underwhelmed.
by Pops Daniels on Aug 26, 2008 12:56 PM EDT 1 recs
Only 24 times?
He could coach, too, ya know.
Would Corey Patterson start Corey Patterson?
by sonant1 on
Aug 27, 2008 9:56 PM EDT
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Why not?
Pete Rose started Pete Rose.
Sept 6th - Duffers Open - http://duffersopen.org/ - Play some golf with your fellow RRs.
by snohio on
Aug 28, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
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Reds 2009
1B – Votto; 2B – Phillips; 3B – Encarnacion (jury still out); SS – Keppinger or Hairston, Jr. (if he can stay healthy); C – Hanigan or Free Agent; LF – love to see Reds pay the money for Holliday, if not then someone else or Chris Dickerson; CF – start with Bruce and ease in Stubbs (he needs to be brought up in September); RF – Bruce and maybe Cumberland or DT Anderson. Lineup being:
Drew Stubbs (CF)
Brandon Phillips (2B)
Matt Holiday (LF)
Joey Votto (1B)
Edwin Encarnacion (3B)
Jay Bruce (RF)
Jeff Keppinger (SS)
Ryan Hanigan ©
Possible switch of Holiday and Votto in order
Pitching:
SP – Edison Volquez
SP – Aaron Harang
SP – Bronson Arroyo
SP – Johnny Cueto
SP – Free Agent/Nick Masset/Justin Lehr/Homer Bailey/Matt Maloney/Ramon Ramirez/Adam Pettyjohn
CL – Francisco Cordero
RP – Jared Burton
RP – Jeremy Affeldt
RP – Bill Bray
RP – Mike Lincoln
RP – David Weathers (need his experience)
RP – Carlos Fisher/Justin Lehr/Josh Roenicke/Danny Herrara
Other pitchers who could make team during season:
Tyler Pelland
Darly Thompson
Jon Adkins
Sam Lecure
Robert Manuel
Ramon Geronimo
Other players that could make team during next season:
Chris Valiaka
Adam Rosales
Craig Tatum
Paul Janish
by dna5037 on Aug 26, 2008 1:49 PM EDT 1 recs
don't infringe on Ryan Hanigan, he's copyrighted
by jacob brumfield on
Aug 26, 2008 2:49 PM EDT
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Maybe dna has coined an inventive nickname for Ryan Hanigan:
“Ryan Hanigan”
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on
Aug 26, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
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and the nickname can only be used with written consent
by jacob brumfield on
Aug 26, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
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If it's implied oral
Then it’s probably about my mom.
by Brendanukkah on
Aug 26, 2008 2:57 PM EDT
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You might want to look for a job in college football
your prevent defense is outstanding
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 26, 2008 3:06 PM EDT
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This kid
appears to be available
The only thing that pisses me off about the situation is that it guarantees another reprinting of Atlas Shrugged.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on Aug 26, 2008 1:59 PM EDT 1 recs
Mother: " I'd rather he spend all his time on the baseball field than idolizing someone standing on the street corner."
Because those are the two options being presented here.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on
Aug 26, 2008 2:09 PM EDT
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My mother and street corner standers everywhere
thank you for your indignation.
by Brendanukkah on
Aug 26, 2008 2:12 PM EDT
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So, where did the links to the other SBNation baseball blogs at the bottom of the main page go?
by Brendanukkah on Aug 26, 2008 2:27 PM EDT 1 recs
Red Reporter blogs too hard and accurately for those sites.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 26, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
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There was an upgrade last night
Or so I hear.
How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?
by jch24 on
Aug 26, 2008 4:07 PM EDT
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I don't get it.
How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?
by jch24 on
Aug 26, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
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Well done.
How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?
by jch24 on
Aug 26, 2008 6:47 PM EDT
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They are on the left sidebar.
I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.
by Slyde on
Aug 26, 2008 4:15 PM EDT
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I was about to suggest Murton in LF
before I realized that he was a) traded to the A’s and b) has sucked epically. But I’d be for some scouring for a RH LF…I imagine Holliday would cost us too much prospects-wise. And I’m not going to root for Burrel.
I couldn’t find anyone half-assedly looking around. But Juan Castro has gotten 91 ABs in Baltimore. Remeber: it could always be worse.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on Aug 26, 2008 5:12 PM EDT 1 recs
Why the dislike for Pat the Bat?
I understand the inherent silliness of signing Burrel when you already had a younger, left-handed, possibly cheaper version of him in-house. But he’s still pretty damn good.
I mean, I wouldn’t kick him out of bed unless I wanted to screw this metaphor on the floor.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 26, 2008 5:17 PM EDT
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*Burrell
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 26, 2008 6:08 PM EDT
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Hmmm...
A retread Cubs outfielder from the Dusty era in Chicago… Now sucks for a middle of the road AL team… Sound like anyone you know?
Politickin' in God's Country
by chesirecat on
Aug 26, 2008 5:18 PM EDT
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My late August thoughts
Your 2009 Cincinnati Reds (with what I’d pay free agents):
C: Rod Barajas (2 yrs/$6M)
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Mark Ellis (3/$20M)
3B: Edwin Encarnacion
SS: Brandon Phillips
LF: Matt Holliday (4/$80)
CF: Rocco Baldelli (2/$6M, $4-5M in incentives)
RF: Jay Bruce
Bench:
Ryan Hanigan
Alex Gonzalez
Jerry Hairston
Chris Dickerson/Drew Stubbs
Sean Casey (1/$1M)
Starting Pitchers:
Aaron Harang
Edinson Volquez
Johnny Cueto
Bronson Arroyo
Matt Maloney/Darryl Thompson
Relievers:
Francisco Cordero
Bill Bray
Jared Burton
Josh Roenike
Will Ohman (2/$7M)
MLB minimum fodder
MLB minimum fodder
How did we get Holliday, you ask? Why, by trading Todd Frazier, Homer Bailey, and Kyle Lotzkar. Throw in Danny Dorn, Chris Dickerson or (if you get Baldelli and are convinced he’s healthy) Drew Stubbs if we have to. The Reds’ system is gaining some depth; I say use some of it to get a game-changing hitter in his prime.
Ellis/BP/AGon give you 3 players for 2 positions; Hairston can fake playing anywhere; maybe the Mayor can impart some defensive wisdom on Votto.
Ryan Freel? Trade him for either a decent prospect or payroll relief. Someone has to love his scrappiness.
As near as I can figure, that would keep the payroll around $90M plus buyouts give or take, up from $74M this year. However, if Harang straightens out, Volquez and Cueto turn into the reliable 2/3 starters we hope, and Votto/Bruce continue to improve, I’d like this team a lot. A whole lot.
(I know this may deviate from previously stated opinions. Tough.)
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on Aug 26, 2008 5:38 PM EDT 1 recs
Not realistic but whatever were playing, it could win a World Series
SP..
1.C.C.
2. Volquez
3. Harang
4. Bronson
5. Cueto…………….Probably wont happen….Micah O. more realistic than C.C. being here
RP..
Cordero
Bray
Affeldt
Maloney
Herrera
Bailey
Burton………Bailey hasnt proved he is a starter yet why not? This pen mixes it up, a lot of different pitching types here….we could spend money for more but this is pretty good for what we have, I dont care for Stormy Weathers his stuff isnt impressive at all, he is good enough to be the worst reliever for a serious contender
1st…Votto
2nd..Phillips
SS…Keppinger
3rd..Gonzalez/Encarnacion platoon
RF…Bruce
CF…Dickerson
LF…Holliday
C….Pudge……for short contract see why below
Bench
C.with Pudge keep 3 catchers….Hanigan and Castillo…develop em, move Castillo around if you want to……switch hitter, if not dont get pudge and keep our pudge, 2 switch hitting catchers?
Keep Freel and Hairston…..they can play anywhere and both add spark, and could start for long streaks if they are hot without hurting the team……..young team there are your veterans
Of course Edwin. Make him prove he can be a consistent starter, we dont need to demote him, we dont need to get rid of him, we can keep him on the bench as a pinch hitting threat, and as someone who can step in to be an everyday starter when he wants
After this set Patterson on fire…………………if he can run fast enough to put himself out without water and without stop dropping and rolling…………then we can use him…………………to deliver cold beverages at a speedy rate to thirsty fans that would actually attend the games
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 12:01 AM EDT
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I didnt mean when Edwin wants
just when he can prove………thats solid lineup with pop, average, speed, defense, young and old. The catching cant be worse than it is now so I dont see why that wouldnt work…I didnt even explain Holliday, get rid of the whole farm, screw it lets go with it.
batting order…………………Dickerson
Keppinger
Votto
Holliday
Bruce
Phillips
Gonzalez
Catcher
Pitcher
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 12:10 AM EDT
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I screwed that order up
Dickerson
Keppinger
Phillips
Holliday
Votto
Bruce
Gonzalez
C and P
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 12:13 AM EDT
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platoon
Gonzalez and Encarnacion don’t really work as platoon partners since they’re both right handed. Here are their splits:
PA AVG OBP SLG
AGon vs RHP 3330 .249 .295 .399
vs LHP 1017 .247 .298 .402
Edwin vs RHP 1198 .264 .329 .450
vs LHP 536 .277 .380 .471
And of course Edwin will be 26 while Alex will be 32. I don’t know what to do with Gonzalez (if he can still play), but giving some of Edwin’s at bats to him seems like a really bad idea.
by Red Menace on
Aug 27, 2008 12:38 AM EDT
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Why is EdE the only that has to prove he can be a consistent starter?
Why not Keppinger? Dude is having a terrible year both offensively and defensively.
BP has been pretty bad offensively this year (worse than Ede for sure).
Bruce needs some major adjustments at the plate (his OBP is .298 right now).
I understand that Edwin’s defense sucks, but if that’s what is keeping him unproven, then move him to a different position. Taking him out of the lineup weakens an already weak lineup. All you’ve added is Holliday to replace Dunn, so without some serious improvement from a bunch of other players in the lineup, you’ve got basically the same crap lineup we’ve had this season.
And there is no way that if Keppinger and Gonzalez are both in the lineup that Keppinger should be the one playing SS.
I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.
by Slyde on
Aug 27, 2008 8:06 AM EDT
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Injuries?
I split Gonzalez and Edwin because we have to see what Gonzalez can do, switch him and Keppinger it doesnt matter much to me…………..
Keppinger lost mass weight and had that injury, before that he was fine, and I think he will be there again as a consistent and model number 2 hitter
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 9:53 AM EDT
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Kep jury still out
But he’s hitting .317 over his last 12 games, and has more walks than strikeouts. He’s hit for the Reds when he’s been healthy…he’s a bit enigmatic, but not many scrubs walk more than they strikeout. It’s a really good sign. I’m hopeful. Besides, if his bat doesn’t come around to stay next year, the Reds can trade him for the Phillie Phanatic. We need about 12 more mascots (not including Tracy Jones).
by PeteyHendrix on
Aug 27, 2008 5:30 PM EDT
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Oof.
Granted, this is :just for fun, but wow.
- While I could see the payroll jumping a bit, you’ve bumped it up to $120M or more.
- Sabathia is going to command $22M+ for 5+ years. Let someone else take the chance he won’t eat himself out of baseball.
- I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but IRod is no longer a good catcher. He’d lost playing time to Brandon Inge in Detroit; still, someone will give him 3 years and too much money.
- As noted by Slyde, Keppinger is a terrible defensive SS. As I noted in another thread, the entire idea that he can hit MLB pitching is based on one stretch of 140 PA in the middle of last season (out of over 800 career PA).
- There’s no good reason to keep Freel around if you’re going to keep Hairston, who is probably a better hitter and (amazingly) a lower injury risk. Instead of two guys who’re marginally versitle but not great hitters, why not keep one and sign someone who might be able to PH?
- Affeldt was lured to Cinci with a promise to start; he’s also making $3M this year (which means he’ll make more next, given his 2 good years in a row). He’ll go somewhere someone will pay him $7M+ to screw up their rotation.
- Phillips is barely a league-average hitter. There’s no way he should be hitting 3rd.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
Aug 27, 2008 8:45 AM EDT
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I dont think I would call Phillips a barely average hitter
He is having a down year from last year……..
SPLITS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Season 129 509 73 134 21 7 21 76 34 87 23 8 .263 .311 .456 .767
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 9:59 AM EDT
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Yea, barely average
He’s been a full-time hitter for 3 full seasons; his OPS+ has been 88, 105, and 96. So even in his best season, he was only a little above average. Plus, his OPS has been slugging-heavy; he’s consistantly been well below average in OBP, which is more important to run scoring.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
Aug 27, 2008 10:04 AM EDT
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Are we forgetting something?
He is a 20/20 guy this year and a 30/30 guy last year that has a decent average, and he scores runs when he is on base………………………..
I dont think when you get that production out of a middle infielder you can call him below average? God I just got a flashback of how painful this who season has been I think Im blacked out right now……………..
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 10:07 AM EDT
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if he didn't try to hit a home run every time at bat, he would be a much better player
Phillips is a nice player, but please don’t overestimate the value of his stolen bases.
by chandrathan on
Aug 27, 2008 10:14 AM EDT
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Ill agree with that
Sometimes the swings he makes on the first pitch make me want to take a swing at his dome piece
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 7:26 PM EDT
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Those pesky stats...
BP’s BA the past 3 seasons: .276, .288, .263
League average, adjusted for park: .277, .278, .271
In other words, average.
Plus, “scores when he gets on base”? Wouldn’t that have something to do with hitting ahead of Dunn for the past 2 seasons?
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
Aug 27, 2008 10:17 AM EDT
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Ok Sid dont be a hypocrit
for one of the people that bashes average so much when backing Dunn, dont use average to say B-Phil is an average hitter……..to then back his stats because of Dunn
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 7:27 PM EDT
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I think he was trying to reach you on a point of common ground
What makes Dunn so valuable is his on base skills, so it’s really deceptive to focus on his average. But Phillips’ ability to not make outs is very tied up in his average.
Last 3 years AVG/OBP
Dunn
.234/.365
.264/.386
.236/.386
Phillips
.276/.324
.288/.331
.263/.311
The most important thing for a hitter to do is not make a outs. If my grandfather were to look at these two players he would just look at batting average and conclude that Phillips is much better than Dunn at this skill, which is completely wrong.
And of course Dunn tops Phillips in the other thing that’s very important for run production, hitting for power.
by Red Menace on
Aug 28, 2008 1:32 AM EDT
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You completely missed my point
You said he “has a decent average” as a point in his favor. My point is that his BA is, like all of his batting skills, only average.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
Aug 28, 2008 8:55 AM EDT
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but...
some might say decent = average especially since average > replacement.
Honestly it doesn’t matter though because his OBP is shit and he’s not slugging enough to make up for that.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Aug 28, 2008 9:13 AM EDT
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Let's not forget
that his surrounding cast makes him look much better than he is for those who rely on optical evidence.
Overserved and underwhelmed.
by Pops Daniels on
Aug 28, 2008 9:54 AM EDT
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Not relying on optical evidence
But if we had a good lineup around him it would make his numbers go up, so for those who rely on watching paper…..we need more than a few parts for a good team
by Reynard on
Aug 28, 2008 2:42 PM EDT
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agreed
if he was the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team, this team would be really good.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Aug 28, 2008 2:50 PM EDT
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What's so funny
I know from whence my opinions sprang.
by Reynard's Ass on
Aug 28, 2008 4:16 PM EDT
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Everyone's batting average...
Is average.
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on
Aug 28, 2008 11:23 AM EDT
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BP is an average hitter
just about everything about his offensive game is average, save the stolen bases. batting average, as shown by sid, has been average. his OPS has been average. he may have hit 20-30 home runs the past 2 years, but he also makes a ton of outs, and also grounds into far too many DPs for a man of his purported speed. so basically every stat used to measure his offensive worth shows that he is a league-average hitter. what makes him an above-average player is his stellar defense.
but when BP is the anchor of your lineup every day, and even Chris Welsh gets this, your lineup is going to be pitiful. thats why this offense has been shut down by the likes of Brian Moeller and Wandy Rodriguez.
Dusty Baker is dumb.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Aug 27, 2008 10:32 AM EDT
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why didn't we trade Affeldt, again?
WHY?!?!?!?!
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Aug 27, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
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You have looked at Pudge's stats right?
Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!
by Zach K on
Aug 27, 2008 10:51 AM EDT
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I dont want Pudge for him being good
I want him to develop young catchers……………..like I said before it cant be worse than what we did with Bako
by Reynard on
Aug 27, 2008 7:29 PM EDT
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Oh yes it could...
It could cost about 6 to 10 times more.
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on
Aug 28, 2008 11:24 AM EDT
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but remember...
we’re not paying him for being good.
by jacob brumfield on
Aug 28, 2008 3:47 PM EDT
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I also like this team a whole lot.
The only things I would have any contention with at all are what you gave up in the Holliday deal and the future of Drew Stubbs. I’m with you on Bailey, but throwing in two of the top pitchers in the organization and one of the top position players to get one player? If that’s what it takes, so be it, but I don’t think it would take that much, and I’m a big Lotzkar guy so I’d like to see him stay here. But you are correct that we have the depth to pull it off.
As for the center field position, I like giving Baldelli a shot on the cheap, but I’m kind of worried about what we would do with Stubbs from then on out. You’d have the entire outfield locked up for at least 2 years. With Stubbs potentially getting a September call-up this year, I’d have to think he’d be ready to play everyday in center before 2011, and as long as Baldelli would stay healthy, we’d run into a situation like we’ve had with Bruce/Votto/Bailey where the players deserve their shot to play everyday in the big leagues but we don’t have room for them.
Either way, I like everything else.
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Aug 26, 2008 5:57 PM EDT
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Baldelli vs. Stubbs
I’m not convinced Stubbs is ready offensively. He’s never exactly been young for his level, and never shown much power. A healthy Baldelli would give him extra time to mature.
The other thing is, if Stubbs is good enough to be playing but Baldelli’s blocking him, that’s because Baldelli’s been healthy and good, which would make one of them very tradeable.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
Aug 26, 2008 9:08 PM EDT
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3 things
your deal for Holliday most likely wouldnt work. Colorado would want Bruce, Cueto, Volquez, or Votto as the centerpiece, and probably two of them. i know thats crazy, insane, nuts, and a little perverted, but thats probably the price.
your deal for Ellis is probably a little light. he’s probably going to want 4 years, at least i would anyway. and as much sense as it makes to move BP to short, it wont happen. it would solve so many problems and make us a much better team, so it just wont work. you dont need me to tell you this though.
i would love to see Rocco Baldelli, but i dont think he will be a major-league regular ever again. this mitochondrial thing is the most bizarre baseball injury ive ever heard of and doesnt appear likely to be going away. he’d be great for us, but only if his body wasnt eating itself. its really sad and i feel terrible for the guy. it seems he wants so much to be a ballplayer but he’s just too tired.
aside from all that, id be totally cool with sidnancy for GM.
Dusty Baker is dumb.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Aug 26, 2008 5:58 PM EDT
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Could we put Ellis in LF, too?
BBRef is really not working for me, but I figure that nobody could F it up that badly, right? Again, I can’t check his stats, but I know he’s getting a lot of love on this board, so I’m just throwing it out there.
I also like the idea of bringing Casey back. It’d be nice, it’d get fans, he’s not totally cooked, and itll allow a Votto LF experiment. Unfortunately, if Votto slumps, they’re gonna be calling for his head. Its a nice idea, though.
Maybe Casey Blake for LF?
Sorry, without BBRef, I can be dangerous here…
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Aug 26, 2008 9:01 PM EDT
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Ellis in LF?
His value is mainly defensively, so there would be no reason to put him in LF – his bat would not get the job done out there.
I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.
by Slyde on
Aug 26, 2008 9:41 PM EDT
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I have a strong feeling
Casey Blake is starting a precipitous decline.
Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers
by Man Mountain on
Aug 26, 2008 10:41 PM EDT
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