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2009 Reds Who's going, staying, coming in

As frustrating as this year has been, and with the hair trigger Bob Castellini has, what is to be expected for next year.  For starters who among the Free Agent class might be interested in coming to Cincinnati, and how wide will Bob open his wallet to stop the losing.  Would they possibly consider an aging Ramirez for a Left Field solution? Would Matt Holiday be an answer? Or do they sign a Sabathia and trade some of the young pitching (Thompson, Bailey) to fill a catching or outfield hole.  Does Drew Stubbs appear to be any kind of answer, or is Chris Dickerson for real?

This post could go in any direction, Who would you bring in, let go and keep?

 

 

 

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I'd keep the whole team

but I’m a sadist, so you know….

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 26, 2008 12:56 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Only 24 times?

He could coach, too, ya know.

Would Corey Patterson start Corey Patterson?

by sonant1 on Aug 27, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why not?

Pete Rose started Pete Rose.

Sept 6th - Duffers Open - http://duffersopen.org/ - Play some golf with your fellow RRs.

by snohio on Aug 28, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Reds 2009

1B – Votto; 2B – Phillips; 3B – Encarnacion (jury still out); SS – Keppinger or Hairston, Jr. (if he can stay healthy); C – Hanigan or Free Agent; LF – love to see Reds pay the money for Holliday, if not then someone else or Chris Dickerson; CF – start with Bruce and ease in Stubbs (he needs to be brought up in September); RF – Bruce and maybe Cumberland or DT Anderson. Lineup being:

Drew Stubbs (CF)
Brandon Phillips (2B)
Matt Holiday (LF)
Joey Votto (1B)
Edwin Encarnacion (3B)
Jay Bruce (RF)
Jeff Keppinger (SS)
Ryan Hanigan ©

Possible switch of Holiday and Votto in order

Pitching:

SP – Edison Volquez
SP – Aaron Harang
SP – Bronson Arroyo
SP – Johnny Cueto
SP – Free Agent/Nick Masset/Justin Lehr/Homer Bailey/Matt Maloney/Ramon Ramirez/Adam Pettyjohn

CL – Francisco Cordero
RP – Jared Burton
RP – Jeremy Affeldt
RP – Bill Bray
RP – Mike Lincoln
RP – David Weathers (need his experience)
RP – Carlos Fisher/Justin Lehr/Josh Roenicke/Danny Herrara

Other pitchers who could make team during season:

Tyler Pelland
Darly Thompson
Jon Adkins
Sam Lecure
Robert Manuel
Ramon Geronimo

Other players that could make team during next season:

Chris Valiaka
Adam Rosales
Craig Tatum
Paul Janish

by dna5037 on Aug 26, 2008 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This kid

appears to be available

The only thing that pisses me off about the situation is that it guarantees another reprinting of Atlas Shrugged.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 26, 2008 1:59 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

There was an upgrade last night

Or so I hear.

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 26, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't get it.

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 26, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well done.

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 26, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

They are on the left sidebar.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 26, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

SBNation,

Quit touching my stuff!

by Brendanukkah on Aug 26, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was about to suggest Murton in LF

before I realized that he was a) traded to the A’s and b) has sucked epically. But I’d be for some scouring for a RH LF…I imagine Holliday would cost us too much prospects-wise. And I’m not going to root for Burrel.

I couldn’t find anyone half-assedly looking around. But Juan Castro has gotten 91 ABs in Baltimore. Remeber: it could always be worse.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Aug 26, 2008 5:12 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Why the dislike for Pat the Bat?

I understand the inherent silliness of signing Burrel when you already had a younger, left-handed, possibly cheaper version of him in-house. But he’s still pretty damn good.

I mean, I wouldn’t kick him out of bed unless I wanted to screw this metaphor on the floor.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 26, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

*Burrell

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 26, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hmmm...

A retread Cubs outfielder from the Dusty era in Chicago… Now sucks for a middle of the road AL team… Sound like anyone you know?

Politickin' in God's Country

by chesirecat on Aug 26, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

My late August thoughts

Your 2009 Cincinnati Reds (with what I’d pay free agents):

C: Rod Barajas (2 yrs/$6M)
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Mark Ellis (3/$20M)
3B: Edwin Encarnacion
SS: Brandon Phillips
LF: Matt Holliday (4/$80)
CF: Rocco Baldelli (2/$6M, $4-5M in incentives)
RF: Jay Bruce

Bench:
Ryan Hanigan
Alex Gonzalez
Jerry Hairston
Chris Dickerson/Drew Stubbs
Sean Casey (1/$1M)

Starting Pitchers:

Aaron Harang
Edinson Volquez
Johnny Cueto
Bronson Arroyo
Matt Maloney/Darryl Thompson

Relievers:
Francisco Cordero
Bill Bray
Jared Burton
Josh Roenike
Will Ohman (2/$7M)
MLB minimum fodder
MLB minimum fodder

How did we get Holliday, you ask? Why, by trading Todd Frazier, Homer Bailey, and Kyle Lotzkar. Throw in Danny Dorn, Chris Dickerson or (if you get Baldelli and are convinced he’s healthy) Drew Stubbs if we have to. The Reds’ system is gaining some depth; I say use some of it to get a game-changing hitter in his prime.

Ellis/BP/AGon give you 3 players for 2 positions; Hairston can fake playing anywhere; maybe the Mayor can impart some defensive wisdom on Votto.

Ryan Freel? Trade him for either a decent prospect or payroll relief. Someone has to love his scrappiness.

As near as I can figure, that would keep the payroll around $90M plus buyouts give or take, up from $74M this year. However, if Harang straightens out, Volquez and Cueto turn into the reliable 2/3 starters we hope, and Votto/Bruce continue to improve, I’d like this team a lot. A whole lot.

(I know this may deviate from previously stated opinions. Tough.)

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 26, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Not realistic but whatever were playing, it could win a World Series

SP..
1.C.C.
2. Volquez
3. Harang
4. Bronson
5. Cueto…………….Probably wont happen….Micah O. more realistic than C.C. being here

RP..
Cordero
Bray
Affeldt
Maloney
Herrera
Bailey
Burton………Bailey hasnt proved he is a starter yet why not? This pen mixes it up, a lot of different pitching types here….we could spend money for more but this is pretty good for what we have, I dont care for Stormy Weathers his stuff isnt impressive at all, he is good enough to be the worst reliever for a serious contender

1st…Votto
2nd..Phillips
SS…Keppinger
3rd..Gonzalez/Encarnacion platoon
RF…Bruce
CF…Dickerson
LF…Holliday
C….Pudge……for short contract see why below

Bench
C.with Pudge keep 3 catchers….Hanigan and Castillo…develop em, move Castillo around if you want to……switch hitter, if not dont get pudge and keep our pudge, 2 switch hitting catchers?

Keep Freel and Hairston…..they can play anywhere and both add spark, and could start for long streaks if they are hot without hurting the team……..young team there are your veterans

Of course Edwin. Make him prove he can be a consistent starter, we dont need to demote him, we dont need to get rid of him, we can keep him on the bench as a pinch hitting threat, and as someone who can step in to be an everyday starter when he wants

After this set Patterson on fire…………………if he can run fast enough to put himself out without water and without stop dropping and rolling…………then we can use him…………………to deliver cold beverages at a speedy rate to thirsty fans that would actually attend the games

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didnt mean when Edwin wants

just when he can prove………thats solid lineup with pop, average, speed, defense, young and old. The catching cant be worse than it is now so I dont see why that wouldnt work…I didnt even explain Holliday, get rid of the whole farm, screw it lets go with it.

batting order…………………Dickerson
                                            Keppinger
                                            Votto
                                            Holliday
                                            Bruce
                                            Phillips
                                            Gonzalez
                                            Catcher
                                            Pitcher
                                            
                                            
                                            

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I screwed that order up

Dickerson
Keppinger
Phillips
Holliday
Votto
Bruce
Gonzalez
C and P

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

platoon

Gonzalez and Encarnacion don’t really work as platoon partners since they’re both right handed. Here are their splits:

                 PA     AVG   OBP   SLG
AGon vs RHP 3330 .249 .295 .399
      vs LHP 1017 .247 .298 .402
Edwin vs RHP 1198 .264 .329 .450
      vs LHP 536 .277 .380 .471

And of course Edwin will be 26 while Alex will be 32. I don’t know what to do with Gonzalez (if he can still play), but giving some of Edwin’s at bats to him seems like a really bad idea.

by Red Menace on Aug 27, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why is EdE the only that has to prove he can be a consistent starter?

Why not Keppinger? Dude is having a terrible year both offensively and defensively.

BP has been pretty bad offensively this year (worse than Ede for sure).

Bruce needs some major adjustments at the plate (his OBP is .298 right now).

I understand that Edwin’s defense sucks, but if that’s what is keeping him unproven, then move him to a different position. Taking him out of the lineup weakens an already weak lineup. All you’ve added is Holliday to replace Dunn, so without some serious improvement from a bunch of other players in the lineup, you’ve got basically the same crap lineup we’ve had this season.

And there is no way that if Keppinger and Gonzalez are both in the lineup that Keppinger should be the one playing SS.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 27, 2008 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Injuries?

I split Gonzalez and Edwin because we have to see what Gonzalez can do, switch him and Keppinger it doesnt matter much to me…………..

Keppinger lost mass weight and had that injury, before that he was fine, and I think he will be there again as a consistent and model number 2 hitter

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kep jury still out

But he’s hitting .317 over his last 12 games, and has more walks than strikeouts. He’s hit for the Reds when he’s been healthy…he’s a bit enigmatic, but not many scrubs walk more than they strikeout. It’s a really good sign. I’m hopeful. Besides, if his bat doesn’t come around to stay next year, the Reds can trade him for the Phillie Phanatic. We need about 12 more mascots (not including Tracy Jones).

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 27, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oof.

Granted, this is :just for fun, but wow.

  • While I could see the payroll jumping a bit, you’ve bumped it up to $120M or more.
  • Sabathia is going to command $22M+ for 5+ years. Let someone else take the chance he won’t eat himself out of baseball.
  • I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but IRod is no longer a good catcher. He’d lost playing time to Brandon Inge in Detroit; still, someone will give him 3 years and too much money.
  • As noted by Slyde, Keppinger is a terrible defensive SS. As I noted in another thread, the entire idea that he can hit MLB pitching is based on one stretch of 140 PA in the middle of last season (out of over 800 career PA).
  • There’s no good reason to keep Freel around if you’re going to keep Hairston, who is probably a better hitter and (amazingly) a lower injury risk. Instead of two guys who’re marginally versitle but not great hitters, why not keep one and sign someone who might be able to PH?
  • Affeldt was lured to Cinci with a promise to start; he’s also making $3M this year (which means he’ll make more next, given his 2 good years in a row). He’ll go somewhere someone will pay him $7M+ to screw up their rotation.
  • Phillips is barely a league-average hitter. There’s no way he should be hitting 3rd.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 27, 2008 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I dont think I would call Phillips a barely average hitter

He is having a down year from last year……..
               
SPLITS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Season 129 509 73 134 21 7 21 76 34 87 23 8 .263 .311 .456 .767

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, barely average

He’s been a full-time hitter for 3 full seasons; his OPS+ has been 88, 105, and 96. So even in his best season, he was only a little above average. Plus, his OPS has been slugging-heavy; he’s consistantly been well below average in OBP, which is more important to run scoring.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 27, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Are we forgetting something?

He is a 20/20 guy this year and a 30/30 guy last year that has a decent average, and he scores runs when he is on base………………………..

I dont think when you get that production out of a middle infielder you can call him below average? God I just got a flashback of how painful this who season has been I think Im blacked out right now……………..

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he didn't try to hit a home run every time at bat, he would be a much better player

Phillips is a nice player, but please don’t overestimate the value of his stolen bases.

by chandrathan on Aug 27, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ill agree with that

Sometimes the swings he makes on the first pitch make me want to take a swing at his dome piece

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those pesky stats...

BP’s BA the past 3 seasons: .276, .288, .263
League average, adjusted for park: .277, .278, .271

In other words, average.

Plus, “scores when he gets on base”? Wouldn’t that have something to do with hitting ahead of Dunn for the past 2 seasons?

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 27, 2008 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ok Sid dont be a hypocrit

for one of the people that bashes average so much when backing Dunn, dont use average to say B-Phil is an average hitter……..to then back his stats because of Dunn

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he was trying to reach you on a point of common ground

What makes Dunn so valuable is his on base skills, so it’s really deceptive to focus on his average. But Phillips’ ability to not make outs is very tied up in his average.

Last 3 years AVG/OBP
Dunn
.234/.365
.264/.386
.236/.386
Phillips
.276/.324
.288/.331
.263/.311

The most important thing for a hitter to do is not make a outs. If my grandfather were to look at these two players he would just look at batting average and conclude that Phillips is much better than Dunn at this skill, which is completely wrong.

And of course Dunn tops Phillips in the other thing that’s very important for run production, hitting for power.

by Red Menace on Aug 28, 2008 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You completely missed my point

You said he “has a decent average” as a point in his favor. My point is that his BA is, like all of his batting skills, only average.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 28, 2008 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but...

some might say decent = average especially since average > replacement.

Honestly it doesn’t matter though because his OBP is shit and he’s not slugging enough to make up for that.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Aug 28, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not forget

that his surrounding cast makes him look much better than he is for those who rely on optical evidence.

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 28, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not relying on optical evidence

But if we had a good lineup around him it would make his numbers go up, so for those who rely on watching paper…..we need more than a few parts for a good team

by Reynard on Aug 28, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

if he was the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team, this team would be really good.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Aug 28, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone's batting average...

Is average.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Aug 28, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BP is an average hitter

just about everything about his offensive game is average, save the stolen bases. batting average, as shown by sid, has been average. his OPS has been average. he may have hit 20-30 home runs the past 2 years, but he also makes a ton of outs, and also grounds into far too many DPs for a man of his purported speed. so basically every stat used to measure his offensive worth shows that he is a league-average hitter. what makes him an above-average player is his stellar defense.

but when BP is the anchor of your lineup every day, and even Chris Welsh gets this, your lineup is going to be pitiful. thats why this offense has been shut down by the likes of Brian Moeller and Wandy Rodriguez.

Dusty Baker is dumb.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 27, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I dont want Pudge for him being good

I want him to develop young catchers……………..like I said before it cant be worse than what we did with Bako

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yes it could...

It could cost about 6 to 10 times more.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Aug 28, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but remember...

we’re not paying him for being good.

by jacob brumfield on Aug 28, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also like this team a whole lot.

The only things I would have any contention with at all are what you gave up in the Holliday deal and the future of Drew Stubbs. I’m with you on Bailey, but throwing in two of the top pitchers in the organization and one of the top position players to get one player? If that’s what it takes, so be it, but I don’t think it would take that much, and I’m a big Lotzkar guy so I’d like to see him stay here. But you are correct that we have the depth to pull it off.

As for the center field position, I like giving Baldelli a shot on the cheap, but I’m kind of worried about what we would do with Stubbs from then on out. You’d have the entire outfield locked up for at least 2 years. With Stubbs potentially getting a September call-up this year, I’d have to think he’d be ready to play everyday in center before 2011, and as long as Baldelli would stay healthy, we’d run into a situation like we’ve had with Bruce/Votto/Bailey where the players deserve their shot to play everyday in the big leagues but we don’t have room for them.

Either way, I like everything else.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 26, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Baldelli vs. Stubbs

I’m not convinced Stubbs is ready offensively. He’s never exactly been young for his level, and never shown much power. A healthy Baldelli would give him extra time to mature.

The other thing is, if Stubbs is good enough to be playing but Baldelli’s blocking him, that’s because Baldelli’s been healthy and good, which would make one of them very tradeable.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 26, 2008 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

3 things

your deal for Holliday most likely wouldnt work. Colorado would want Bruce, Cueto, Volquez, or Votto as the centerpiece, and probably two of them. i know thats crazy, insane, nuts, and a little perverted, but thats probably the price.

your deal for Ellis is probably a little light. he’s probably going to want 4 years, at least i would anyway. and as much sense as it makes to move BP to short, it wont happen. it would solve so many problems and make us a much better team, so it just wont work. you dont need me to tell you this though.

i would love to see Rocco Baldelli, but i dont think he will be a major-league regular ever again. this mitochondrial thing is the most bizarre baseball injury ive ever heard of and doesnt appear likely to be going away. he’d be great for us, but only if his body wasnt eating itself. its really sad and i feel terrible for the guy. it seems he wants so much to be a ballplayer but he’s just too tired.

aside from all that, id be totally cool with sidnancy for GM.

Dusty Baker is dumb.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 26, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Could we put Ellis in LF, too?

BBRef is really not working for me, but I figure that nobody could F it up that badly, right? Again, I can’t check his stats, but I know he’s getting a lot of love on this board, so I’m just throwing it out there.

I also like the idea of bringing Casey back. It’d be nice, it’d get fans, he’s not totally cooked, and itll allow a Votto LF experiment. Unfortunately, if Votto slumps, they’re gonna be calling for his head. Its a nice idea, though.

Maybe Casey Blake for LF?

Sorry, without BBRef, I can be dangerous here…

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Aug 26, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ellis in LF?

His value is mainly defensively, so there would be no reason to put him in LF – his bat would not get the job done out there.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 26, 2008 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have a strong feeling

Casey Blake is starting a precipitous decline.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 26, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

My thinking/counteroffers

Bruce is off the table. Votto and Cueto are certainly two of the top 20 young players in the league; you’re getting a ton of salary relief, and you have a near zero chance of getting a player like one of those you’re asking for in the draft if you keep Holliday and he walks. Plus, there’s no guarantee Holliday’s going to take my money – I’m giving up alot for maybe only a year of Holliday. If you want Votto or Cueto, you get one other “B” prospect; since Volquez is closer to arbitration, I’ll listen to what you have to say. But considering what we’re getting, and our minor league depth (especially with Alonzo coming in ‘10 if he’s as good as everyone says), I’d still find a way to do it.

Looking at his history, I would want Ellis for the next 3 years; that 4th year might not be worth nearly as much. But if that’s what it takes (and remember, Bob said to do what it takes), I’d go 4/27 or 28. If BP wants to be a team leader, he needs to listen to my reasoning, and at least try to make the move. Unlike a certain SS in NY, he needs to realize the team will be better if he moves to a different position.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 26, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think it's BP that is preventing the move to SS

I’ve heard rumors that he’s more than happy to make the move (would relish it, in fact) but for some reason the Reds won’t do it.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 26, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

rumors from where?

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 26, 2008 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

from sources

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 27, 2008 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

media? clubhouse? staff?

I don’t want a name, but a sphere of influence would be nice.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 27, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You know Slyde and his source

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 27, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Weird

My source is Lil’ Wayne in fact. We play Magic the Gathering together on Thursdays.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 27, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

free agents

There’s an LF in Arizona that’s going to be a free agent…

A man can dream, can’t he?

Seriously, if Walt got Micah Owings for 2 months of the Dunnerator this year, then turns around and resigns him to a long term deal, that would be beyond awesome. I know, it will never happen. But still, a man can dream, can’t he?

by bbjones on Aug 26, 2008 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

second

on sidnancy for GM.

by bbjones on Aug 26, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Are you joking?

I don’t want to listen to you jerks second-guess every decision I make.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 27, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

what a lousy GM

sidnancy would be a terrible GM.

he wouldn’t even hire sidnancy as GM.

and he doesn’t hustle to his position.

by bbjones on Aug 28, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love it!

Think of that Line up

1. Ellis
2. Votto
3. Holliday
4. Bruce
5. Edwin
6. Rocco
7. BP
8. Barajas

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on Aug 27, 2008 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortuneately, there's a problem

There always is.

I missed that Barajas has a relatively cheap option ($2.5M). Oops.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 28, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I think'll happen

No chance on Holliday and with his price tag I would not want him. He wants to test the free agent waters so it will take a whole lot of money to get him here.
I have also heard people talk about making a run at CC, which we couldn’t handle the bidding war of LA and NYY among others.
I also like the idea of Baldelli on the cheap but only expect 70 games out of him for one or maybe 2 years. Even if he were willing to do this I would expect him to stay in TB on the cheap or go home to NYY or BOS before Cincy.
I like Ellis a lot but no way the Reds will move Phillips and it would make way too much sense. Also if it takes a 4 year deal give it to him. He may decline defensively but I could see him take a Grudzielanek type career path.

So basically I think this would be very realistic:

C- Hanigan and Bako. I could see us shelling out the cash for IRod, sadly.
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
SS- Gonzalez/Hairston/Keppinger
3B- EdE
LF- Dickerson
CF- Taveras or Edmonds with Freel until Stubbs is ready. This is scary looking but I just know it is going to happen.
RF- Jay Bruce
SP- Harang Volquez Cueto Arroyo and a cheap FA or maybe a decent free agent thats over priced, exmpl: DLowe, Garland, Dempster, Moyer, Lieber, etc.
Bullpen- CL – Francisco Cordero
RP – Jared Burton
RP – Bill Bray
RP – Mike Lincoln
RP – Some mix of Carlos Fisher/Justin Lehr/Josh Roenicke/Danny Herrara/ Jon Adkins/ plus maybe resigning Affeldt and Weathers.

What I would like to see is

C- Hanigan plus trading for someone who is young with upside: One of the TEX catchers, John Jaso since they have Navarro. Maybe Jeff Mathis from LAA, since they have Conger and Napoli to fill in. Just don’t sign a FA catcher, there really aren’t any that are better than Hanigan.
1B- Votto
2B- Ellis, great for our defense and his pop will fit well in GABP. Give him the 4 years
SS- Phillips, he will embrace the move, after all he wants to be Barry Larkin.
3B- EdE, He will be fine there and provide us with a slightly improving bat and improving defense.
LF- JRivera, He will be 30 and cheaper than most with really decent upside and a solid bat. It would only take a 1 or 2 year deal with incentives. I would rather take a shot on him rather than putting Milton Bradley out there with a costly multi year deal and the risk of injury. Kick the tires on Pat the Bat, Bradley, and maybe moving Votto out here if Alonso can’t play anywhere else.
CF- CDickerson, I think he can be Coco Crisp-lite. With Stubbs coming up pretty quickly.
RF- JBruce

Bench:
Freel – I think he gets traded, after all Kenny Williams proved there are GMs dumber than Jocketty
Hairston – I’m not a huge fan but he deserve something for how he performed when he was healthy this year
Stubbs – Get him up early and let him split time with CDick. He is ready defensively and he will probably get on base at a good clip for a young guy.
J Mathis – Solid defense, there have always been questions about the bat.
Maybe bring in Wily Mo Pena or Craig Monroe for a power bat off the bench if they are very cheap. Also add a left handed bat. I always have loved me some Sean Casey.

SP
Harang- If we handle him very gently the rest of the year he will be back around his old self
Volquez- See Harang, only he will be what he is this year
Cueto – Hopefully takes the next step like Lincecum like some have compared him to
Arroyo – He is what he is and it would make him a great number 4 starter, just too bad he is way over paid.
5th starter – We have some pretty good options in our organization. Owings?, Maloney, Thompson, Masset, and so on. Don’t say Homer. We need to do to him what the Rangers did for Volquez then get him to the majors, don’t trade him.

’Pen
Cl- Cordero
Bray, Lincoln, Burton, Roenicke, Danny Ray, Resign Affeldt, Majic Man for come clean ups, and pick up some good arms on the cheap. I also wouldnt mind Juan Cruz

We should not just start trading our organizational depth until we KNOW we are a few pieces away. I like to think we are close to competing but I don’t KNOW if we are and if we start dealing off all of our depth for one player like Holliday and are unable to resign him we leave ourselves pretty screwed.

by kennythered on Aug 26, 2008 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I like to see the following GO:

Corey
Fogg
Hobart
Bako
Coco (no chance)
Dusty Bakedbrain (no chance)
sMarty (no chance)
clownboy – please Bob please please please….
Homer Bailey (trade bait)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (love the guy but he’s way too injury prone)

Staying would be:

1B – Votto;
2B – Keppinger
SS – B.Phillip
3B – Encarnacion (his last chance to blossom)
 C – Hanigan ( plus any free agent but toothache or Bako)
LF – OPEN FOR A BANGER (or if not available keep Jerry Jr.)
CF – Chris Dickerson
RF – Jay Bruce

Bench:
Ryan Freel
Alex Gonzalez (very much a wild card)
Drew Stubbs (good glove, not much offense)
Javier Valentin (I know…but how can you not include the greatest PH in Red’s history?
1 day a week catcher (someone with good defense and a lot of MLB experience)

SP – Edison Volquez
SP – Aaron Harang
SP – Bronson Arroyo
SP – Johnny Cueto
SP – D.Thompson (This guy should blossom in 09)

CL – Francisco Cordero (needs to get his shit together)
RP – Jared Burton
RP – Jeremy Affeldt
RP – Bill Bray
RP – Mike Lincoln
RP – David Weathers (although next year may be the year his arm falls all the way off)
RP – Josh Roenicke

Batting order for the 1st game of 2009

Dickerson – Kid has shown some talent (time will tell)
Bruce – #2 position will help him to be more disciplined
BP – at the beginning (but as time goes by he should be switched with Bruce)
Votto – Maturing into a good hitter, will drive in some runs
RH BANGER – (Who i don’t know _ you’d have to give up too much for Doc Holliday)
EdE – last chance
Hannigan – see what the kid can do, don’t expect too much
Kepp – he’s been pretty steady and would be ideal for 2b

I don’t see the Reds going out and getting anything more than a fairly inexpensive FA Left fielder.Maybe a 3b and move EdE to left.

My team looks too much like this year’s, but I think that’s how it will shake out. Removing Cophat and Bako from the everyday lineup will make a big difference. The starting rotation could be very competitive as well as the BP. If the Reds don’t go FA for a BANGER then I would be in favor of keeping Hairston Jr. in LF and bat him 1st, C-Dick 2nd and move Bruce down to 6th.

Jesus…If I’m right the Reds will be dependent on great pitching, good defense and good OPB. We’ll see about power and OPS.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 27, 2008 12:24 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Few Notes

- Baldelli is a Krivsky move, so it will not happen
- Is Holliday worth the price?
- If Walt is going to go big, why not go real big?
- Why is everyone ruling out this guy? He’s got homies.
- Two ’09 free agents everyone is overlooking.

by jacob brumfield on Aug 27, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I don't believe that

everyone is ruling Farney out. If walt wants go big…Prince Fielder is the Red’s 2009 3b.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 27, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

HAHAHAH

Prince Fielder fielding 3rd?! Who is your Short Stop????We dont have him to make up the ground…………maybe we can sign God?

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday

Remember, the Angels didn’t make that deal, and now if he’s traded it would only be for a year not a year and (almost) a half.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 28, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

but now I think more teams will be looking in the offseason, rather than just those who were in the playoff hunt. No way his value has gone up, but I doubt it has fallen that much.

by jacob brumfield on Aug 28, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure it's dropped.

First, GMs aren’t as under the gun to make a deal in the off-season. In January, one player isn’t seen as your only hope of making the playoffs.

Second, remember why I said I didn’t like the Dunn trade – I thought Cinci settled for too little; that Arizona was more desperate for Dunn than they showed, and would have paid more. Every player has two values – his value to his current team, and his value to the team trying to get him. Holliday’s value to the Reds is lower every day, because he’s getting closer to free agency. But his value to the Rockies is also dropping every day for the same reason; every day they don’t trade him is a day closer to only getting 2 draft picks for him.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 28, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No more donkey, no more Junior.

Well, at least the replacement players will hustle.

So what does the team look like for next year? I think I’ve got a pretty good glimpse already: THE SAME. Let’s break it down:

Current Reds
C Ryan Hanigan®
1B Joey Votto (L)
2B Brandon Phillips®
SS Alex Gonzales®/Jeff Keppinger®
3B Edwin Encarnacion
LF TBD
CF Chris Dickerson (L)
RF Jay Bruce (L)

Bench:
IF/OF Ryan Freel®
OF Norris Hopper®
IF Adam Rosales®
C Wilkin Castillo (S)

SP Edinson Volquez®
SP Aaron Harang®
SP Johnny Cueto®
SP Bronson Arroyo®
SP Micah Owings®

CL Francisco Cordero®
RP Bill Bray (L)
RP Jared Burton®
RP Homer Bailey®
RP Daryl Thompson®
RP Danny Herrera (L)

Where are the holes that Walt Jock-ER-TEE (pronunciation key by George Grande) will have to fill with his giant GM phallus? Well, there are positions to be addressed (think left field, not Cleveland Steamer), and there is the clubhouse. I often think the clubhouse talk is all garbage, but in this specific case, we have yet to eradicate the loafing, aloof poison that was Junior and his influence. That’s going to cost us extra money.

Catcher Ryan Hanigan ain’t gonna cut it, and the free agent class is limited. I say we bite the bullet here and sign Pudge Rodriguez to an overpriced, too-long, 2-year deal. This will give a great influence to Hanigan and Castillo, as well as the young Reds starting staff. He will also bring veteran leadership and a working knowledge of the Spanish language. Yeah, that does make a difference to Volquez, Cueto, Cordero, Alex Gonzales (maybe), and Edwin Encarnacion. And it’s about time the Reds get a Spanish-speaking catcher who can order chicken mole without having to explain that his mustache is NOT a shout-out to Hitler (Javy, we still love you and your giant, dumpy body.)

That still leaves us a little lefty-heavy in the lineup (Votto, Bruce, Dickerson), so a righty-hitting OF is the next step. We could even get a first baseman and stick Joey Votto in LF if the player was right. Walt will likely make a go at the too-old Jim Edmonds to play center. But Jim is too old these days to be an everyday starter at age 39. So we have to throw Edmonds into the geezer free agent bin, along with Moises Alou, Frank Thomas, and Cliff Floyd. We’ll also need to avoid "headcases", as we need veteran leadership, not spoiled, moping millionaires. So out of the picture go Manny Ramirez and Milton Bradley, which is a shame. Those two sluggers would treat pitches in Great American Ball Park like Ike Turner preferred his ladies: lightly battered.

That leaves us with a select group of two players by my measure: 1B Mark Teixeira and LF Pat Burrell. Both would kill pitching at GABP. Pat plays LF about as well as Adam Dunn…or Joey Votto. Meanwhile, Teixeira is an excellent first baseman, sporting a .996 fielding percentage in over 800 games. Votto in LF and Teixeira at 1B is an upgrade defensively.

There’s your 2009 Reds starting 8:

CF Chris Dickerson (L)
SS Jeff Keppinger®
2B Brandon Phillips®
RF Jay Bruce (L)
LF Pat Burrell®
1B Joey Votto (L)
3B Edwin Encarnacion®
C Pudge Rodriguez®

We’ll need a lefty bat for the bench to match our new star pinch-hitter, Micah Owings®, who carries a career .895 OPS. That’s a big, sexy number that reminds us of el grande burro.

Maybe that’s enough…but it seems a little light to me. But that’s a pretty cheap and easy way to get there, as Pat/Pudge or Tex/Pudge will likely combine to make about as much as Griffey/Dunn did. I wish Pudge was Mexican, so I could make a Tex/Mex joke here, but the truth is that Pat/Pudge and Tex/Pudge are funny sounding enough that no joke is necessary. I’d also like to see Arroyo & Alex Gonzales traded for a lefty starter, but I don’t see that happening.

I know a lot of you have a boner for Mark Ellis, but his OPS this year is 695. The average starting 2B in MLB since 2000 has a OPS of 770. BIG difference. Does his defense make up THAT BIG of a difference? He turns 32 next year. BP has said he doesn’t want to move to SS, and we have A-GON and Kep under contract for next year for a combined approx. $6M. Put down the bong, boys…this will not happen without a preceding trade.

How will Walt do this offseason? Well, it’s hard not to defer to the success he’s had and trust him. Then again, I trusted Ryan Freel to drive me to a strip club once, and that quickly became a total Training Day situation. So my judgment simply can’t be trusted…which is why it seldom is.

Help us, Obi-Walt Kenobi. You’re our only hope.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 27, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Hey this will happen right?

1ST. Alonso
2ND.Votto
SS….Phillips
3RD.Edwin
LF…..Manny (Being Manny)
CF….Bruce
RF….Holliday

That is what you call a bad defense………but screw it we have to do something to counter the offensive BS that is the DH and the AL

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

THEN WE DO THIS

SP
1.C.C.
2.Volquez
3.Harang
4.Bronson
5.Cueto

RELIEF
Burton
Bray
Herrera
Maloney
Affeldt
Cordero (setup)
K-Rod (Closer)

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

thats what would have to happen for us to do anything

With this lineup we still could be as good as these teams……..
Bo Sox, Yanks, Rays, Diamonbacks, White Sox, Mets, Cubs, Phillies……
(insert team serious about winning baseball games here)

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh for the record........

to post more on my posts I will just end with this…we will not be a .500 team next year

by Reynard on Aug 27, 2008 7:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why so negative?

WE should have decent pitching and acceptable defense (if they put BP at SS) as well as a respectable bench. I don’t see us going to the playoffs but (even with Bakedbrains as manager) with a little luck and a coupl;e of acquisitions we should have a winning season.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 28, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

Not running Patterson and Bako out there will help the offense; not running Dunn and Griffey out there will help the defense. Votto and Bruce should continue to improve. Harang is hurt. Arroyo, since the Toronto meltdown, has pitched much better.

If they can find a big bat, get better production from the middle infield (either by getting a SS or moving BP and getting a 2B), and get anything at all from the catcher, I think they can easily be a .500 team, possibly a playoff contender.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 28, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude looking for work

We need a LF who can mash, and is a free agent.

How about Bonds?

(only half-joking…)

by bbjones on Aug 28, 2008 9:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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