because wins are an overratted stat

Okay, maybe he didn’t neeeed to stay. But I disagree with your assessment that he needed to go.

We wont argue that he had a low batting average, we won`t argue that he had no speed on the bases, we won`t argue that he was not a good fielder. (and I don`t want to hear people making excuses for this, anyone that has seen enough Reds games, has seen enough balls Dunn should have got to that he couldnt.) I can`t count all of the times I cringed watching that large man in the outfield, and how many times I would see a ball bloop into left field and get ready to see an exciting play at the plate….to only realize Adam Dunn was there.

Just to look at the other side of things for a second, you can’t tell me that he made absolutely no good plays on defense. Experts who have been looking at defensive metrics this season have actually said that he’s been an average fielder this year, as opposed to the atrocity that you portray him as. Think about it. How many times have you seen him make a nice catch or a nice throw to gun down a runner, and think, “anybody could have done that, seeing ONE good play doesn’t change my opinion”. Probably a few times, right? If you’ve watched every game like you say you have, then you’ve seen a good play or two. Well how does he get held to that standard every single time, but when he makes ONE bad play, he’s scrutinized. Do the bad plays outweigh the good? Probably, I’m not keeping track. But you can’t only mention the bad plays without considering the good ones as well.

No Laser arm, no stolen bases, no web gems.

Not what he’s getting paid for. He’s a slugger, not Ichiro.

You need to do more than argue if walks and strikeouts balance each other out or not. If you are going to be a star in the MLB, especially in the NL, you need to do more.

Who says? Nobody gets on Ryan Howard’s case, and he strikes out more than Dunn does. Derrek Lee, Lance Berkman, Manny Ramirez, Carlos Lee, and Carlos Delgado probably would disagree with you there. Also, who said walks and strikeouts balance each other out? Walks are much more valuable than strikeouts are detrimental.

Dunn hits homers, I dont care, everyone hits home runs when they come to Great American.

Not Juan Castro.

We need to understand, you dont get more runs on the board for hitting it further.

No one here thinks that, either.

I will take a two out, two run double over a solo shot hit 9,000 feet anyday. I`ll welcome any sarcastic comments about that last statement, I dont care, I want to see a baseball game I care about in October, at this point that would be more miraculous to me than a 9,000 foot shot.

A two out, two run double indicates that there are two runners on base, and the solo shot happens with no one on base. That’s like saying when Dunn comes up with a runner on first, you’d rather see a grand slam than a 2-run home run. You’re not comparing the same thing. I’ll tell you this, with two runners on base and two outs, I’d rather see a 3-run homer over a two run double.

This franchise is the first ever, we had one of the best baseball teams in major league history in the Big Red Machine, we had one of the best overall shortstops to see the game in Larkin, and we have a sport THAT DOES NOT HAVE A SALARY CAP, We have fans that do not fill the seats, and we have plenty of people around to bicker and make excuses when there are none.

Yes, this franchise has had a lot of history, but what constants remain from even the 1990 era? New owner, new GM, new personnel. It’s a different team, and needs to be run accordingly. The goal now can’t be to play off the past like they’re entitled to it, but to take the current personnel and build a championship winning team.

I`m tired of watching people that cant bunt even though they get paid to do something they have been doing all of their life, and it is the first thing I learned how to do when I started playing baseball when I was 8. I`m tired of sitting around and discussing whether or not a one tool player should have been paid and kept.

This is a moot point, because the players who can’t bunt shouldn’t be bunting anyways. Griffey, Dunn, EdE, Votto, and Bruce should almost never be asked to bunt. Not to go all sabermetric on you, but bunting is detrimental to scoring runs in almost any situation, but this is more of an indictment on the manager for asking them to bunt constantly than it is the players for not being good at it. Should they probably know the fundamental skill? Yeah, probably, but I don’t think it’s as big of a problem as it’s being made to be with the amount that Dusty asks his slugger to bunt.

If we want to be a team that even gets metioned on ESPN (which we really didnt even when we got rid of Dunn) we need to spend money and demand perfection, the Yankees are the franchise of baseball, because they spend more and want to win more, we were just here first and have nothing this decade to show for it.

Who cares if we get mentioned on ESPN? Just because the Yankees spend more doesn’t mean they “want to win more”, but I agree with you that Bob should spend more money, and I think he will starting this offseason.

We can`t afford to have Josh Foog throw an 85mph slider, 86 mph fastball, 81 mph changeup in the same spot and say he is ok to be a starter. We cant have Edwin have 3 errors one night and strike out 10 times in a row, then get a hot streak from him when the season is over. Corey Patterson has no business on this team, so what Dusty he can run? He should have tried out for the 100 m dash.

Disagree with you on EdE, but agree with Corey and Foggy. Also, this has nothing to do with Dunn, but you’ve got a nice little rant going to I’m not going to stop you.

We cant sign a 48 million dollar closer that we dont use, and when we do use him he gives up 3 runs…that is if Stormy Weathers doesnt give the game away already. Were mediocre because we have mediocre players, mediocre money, and mediocre fan support. Quite frankly I dont think keeping Dunn matters when you win 11-0 one night and lose 2-0 or 3-1 for 4 games straight, half of our entire teams stats are padded a little bit from times it didnt matter, and didnt change the outcome of the game, so just like that, I dont think Dunn being gone is going to change the outcome of next season.

This brings up a decent point. With the rest of the players around Dunn, it’s true that him leaving doesn’t really affect much for the rest of the season, or the long term of the club if they weren’t going to re-sign him anyways. I strongly disagree that this team is better without him though. That’s lunacy. He’s the best offensive player this team has had this decade, and without him, this team will score less runs. Plain and simple.

such as, but not limited to:

— he was a bad example to young players

— He was making too much money for a small market team like Cincinnati

— He didn’t care about winning

But not to worry. While it won’t crack the top ten in stupid Dunn posts at RR, this is as meandering, pointless and terribly-reasoned as any Dunn-related material I’ve seen on the internet in the last 2 hours.

I just felt like it could be more.

We cant have Edwin have 3 errors one night and strike out 10 times in a row, then get a hot streak from him when the season is over.

EdE was 22nd in OPS in MLB in April, 17th in June, and 29th in July. So really, he was pretty good while the Reds still had a chance. He’s been as pretty awful (along with the rest of the team) this month.

I didn’t foresee the awesomeness that was to come!

Maybe the Reds will bring back Dunn?

One can dream

Flash poll time. What do you associate “WOCKA WOCKA WOCKA” with?

A) Fozzie Bear
B) Pac-Man

Discuss.

Except that they include the longest post maybe ever by Red Menace. Long matters.I still think that RM should be strongly considered to take Dusty’s job. And again I promote the idea that Man Mountain would be ideal as bench coach. As soon as they let me out of this place I’m going to call Bob (he’s a personal friend) about these changes.

What’s that its time for my meds….

Do you see which team’s hat he’s wearing. That’s all I have to say about the Dunn trade. BTW I only drink on bowling nights. The Summer leagues are over and it is 2 weeks before the winter leagues begin. 2 weeks of Mads sober……

I hate it when other people eat EVERY SINGLE Double Stuff Oreo in your house before you even know you have them…

and Reynard done swung him a big stick.

My name is Madville
“Hi Madville”
I am an Oreo addict
“Fuck you, Madville”

I didn’t mean to leave any evidence…I’m getting sloppy in my old age.

Props out to Paul H. for one of is longest posts of the season.
So with Chad and T.J. hurt you guys think they’ll bring back Chris Henry?

Man what a mistake that would be, 4 games to sit out. During which time Chris will have plenty of time to rape and pillage and continue his epic self destruction.

He should have been dealt years ago when he was younger and the reds probably could have gotten something out of him. But this is just part of the rebuilding process. Jocketty knows what he is doing. Look at what he did with the Cardinals. They were mediocre when he first took over just like the Reds are right now. How many losing records have the Cardinals had since then? It’s just gonna take a little time. No onw should be losing any sleep over Dunn. A year from now you will think that dealing Griffey and Dunn was the best decision they made all of last season.

This is a reference to help when you debate a point. It basically describes your mode of attack and should be avoided.

They play a cupcake and then Oklahoma…I going with the Cats 17 – 13,,what say you?

They’ve beefed up the defensive line this year

“look” or “feel” like not a good baseball player?

I have been trying to figure out exactly why Dunn appears to be not so good when in fact he is a very valuable player to have on a team.

I think it may be that his “exciting” moments get overshadowed by his “weaknesses.” Looking at his 114 games with the Reds this season it seems that his 32 HR and 14 doubles get overlooked by numbers like this:

46 games with no hits.

79 games where he struck out at least once.

Stuff like that, in addition to all of the media hyped accusations (Dunn doesn’t hustle, doesn’t try hard, doesn’t like baseball, isn’t even having a mediocre year, can’t play defense at all) must be what sticks to most fans.

What is missing, of course, is what pushes Dunn over the top as a hitter- the fact that he walks so much (55 games with at least one walk).

 I am guessing the average fan, who is not very excited by watching Dunn saunter down the first baseline, only remembers (and is taught by the mainstream baseball statistical machine to only focus on the fact) that Dunn struck out or had an 0fer day. If you go to the ballgame, the chances of seeing him strike out are greater than seeing him get a hit, and with a black/white perception of baseball viewing there is a good chance you may end up concluding that he is not so good.

The problem, it seems, is the lack of value for walks and getting on base in general that comes from BA approach to valuing hitters, and not giving players like Dunn credit for how many bases they tend to reach with each at bat, which, if I understand correctly is called slugging percentage. Those two parts combined give you the OPS stat, which sabremetricians think is a better judge of offensive ability.

I haven’t said much new here, but I have put it in my own words. Maybe I am finally coming out of the closet as a sabremetrosexual.

They sucked last year and fell to #19 Illinois but they have a pretty good group coming back for 2008. And they’ve got some hotties on their team

I don/t want to talk about my fav player no more…sob

First of all, Reynard, welcome to Red Reporter, don’t think we have said hello yet.

Just thinking you might have been more successful with your comments if you had started from the premise:

Why the Reds need to get BETTER

Not all of us agree on everything around here. I for one occasionally take issue with pictures that produce women as objects and induce their viewers to become voyeurs. There is something, however, we all agree upon, something we hold dear, what rock gods Deep Blue Something once called, “a common ground to stand on:” we all love Reds baseball and we want to see this team to win.

Starting from that point, whether or not you liked Adam Dunn, this conversation changes. It has been said here countless times already, and I liked how someone put it above: if the Reds are successful in the near future it will be in spite of Dunn’s absence not because of it.

The real conversation is now what? If the space and resources and post-Dunn clubhouse he leaves behind gives us the room we need to turn this thing around, then I am pretty sure everyone here will be celebrating a new day in Reds baseball. But that, of course, means addressing the major holes in this team, including the offensive production lost when the Donkey rode west.

“Dunn hits homers, I dont care, everyone hits home runs when they come to Great American.”

Really, they hit 40 home runs a year, year after year (along with a hundreds walks, runs, and RBIs)? Who else? No one, that’s who. In fact, no one in the history of the Reds. My God, people, wake up. You just gave up the best offensive player the organization has ever had because he didn’t satisfy your masturbatory fetish for a high average, Ryan Freel hustler. I swear, you won’t be happy until the whole lineup is made up of “character guys” with an OPS of .640.

can suck it, end of discussion

There’s our girl Heather after playing a great game!.