Couple O' links

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 3:41 PM EDT Comment 76 comments

[Note by Rick House, 08/18/08 3:58 PM EDT ]: This should make for an excellent off-day open thread. -Rick

From MLBTR.

First, Jockety has free reins to spend as much of Castellini's money as he wants. However, this quote bothers me:

"Dunn was going to be a free agent and Griffey had an option we weren't going to exercise, so we just felt it was time to turn the page and get some players back to help give us more depth," Jocketty said. "They were both guys who had great careers here. But it wasn't working, so we're trying something different."

Now, I don't know anyone that disagrees that Jr. needed to go. I also don't know anyone who'd say "it was working" in Cinci. However, Dunn was the best hitter in the lineup (by OPS) he was a regular (based on at least 502 PA, or "a regular player" by baseball stat rules (3.1 PA/team game)) every year except '05, when Jr's OPS was 18 points higher (3 points of OPS+). If you're struggling, why get rid of your best hitter? Why cite "free agency" if " majority owner Bob Castellini has made it clear that Jocketty will have free rein to shape the team as he sees fit"? I can understand blowhard radio announcers blaming the best player for a team's failure, but the GM should know better. At least I'd hope so.

Second link is human interest only. Chris Gruler doesn't blame the magic stick.

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Well,

“I think the fans like seeing the young players up here. They like seeing the energy. We have talent. We just need experience.”

Walt-
Corey Patterson is not young, he is a terd. Kick him in the groin and send him out the door.
-Everyone

by jacob brumfield on Aug 18, 2008 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like watching young AAA-level players lose to major leaguers.

Who doesn’t?

I think we overmeet as a society.

by Gray on Aug 18, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

People who dislike seeing the energy

same folks who raise these kids

by jacob brumfield on Aug 18, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey!

I made the main page! Woohoo! Although, that lead-in should say it “makes an excellent off-day thread”, not that it merely “suffices”.

I also saw that quote, jacob, and just to tie it in: Didn’t Dunn have both talent and experience?

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No

He’s never played on a winner.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 18, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Tallest midget.

Calling Adam Dunn the best offensive player we had is right. But that only means, on this pitiful team, we was he tallest midget. I contend you can get a better offensive player than Dunn, a more complete player, for what the Reds were paying him. Maybe even someone who plays defense. We’ll see what Jockety does with that money. I liked Dunn, but unlike most Reds fans, i wasn’t broken up that they got rid of him. I mean, he wasn’t THAT good. He wasn’t a perenial All-Star. I will be pissed if this offseason they don’t use the money they have now freed up to bring in some serious offense. This offseason will be what defines the new ownership/gm group. How serious are they to bring a contender to Cincinnati? Now they are under the microscope.

by MyScreenNameIsKevin on Aug 18, 2008 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Good point

the solution to the tallest midget problem is to get rid of him and find another slightly taller midget.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 18, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the real solution,

is to find a larger, darker midget

by jacob brumfield on Aug 18, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

with no arms

by jacob brumfield on Aug 18, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's armsist!

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 18, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

That's racist!

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 18, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey are you the second mod to get your panties in a wad?

"Personally, I think he's probably a really big Lance Bass fan." ~ Marty on Doc

by chandrathan on Aug 18, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

rec'd for rhyming

Even if I have no idea what you’re talking about.

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 18, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with this guy

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 18, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He wasn't the best player in the league

but he is a really good player. As Slyde said, the solution isn’t to get rid of your best player and then attempt to find others, but to keep your best player (since he produces a lot for what he makes) and sign other really good players—even a better one, if you can find him and get him to come to Cincinnati.

I think we overmeet as a society.

by Gray on Aug 18, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like who?

I contend you can get a better offensive player than Dunn, a more complete player, for what the Reds were paying him.

The following players have a higher career OPS+ than Dunn (minimum 3000 PA, with age, OPS+, and availability)

Barry Bonds (43) 182 No longer welcome in baseball
Albert Pujols (28) 169 Under contract
Frank Thomas (40) 156 Much older, can’t play defense
Manny Ramirez (36) 154 More expensive, much older, worse defensively
Jim Thome* (37) 149 If available much older, can’t play defense
Lance Berkman (32) 148 Under contract
Alex Rodriguez (32) 148 Under contract
Jason Giambi (37) 147 If available much older, can’t play defense
Vladimir Guerrero (32) 147 Under contract (team option will be picked up)
Chipper Jones (36) 144 Under contract (team option will be picked up), much older
Mike Piazza (39) 142 Out of baseball
Miguel Cabrera (25) 141 Under contract
Todd Helton (34) 141 Under hideous contract, no longer any good, no position on Reds
Gary Sheffield (39) 141 Under hideous contract, no longer any good, much older than Dunn
Carlos Delgado (36) 138 No longer as good as Dunn, much older, no position on Reds
Brian Giles (37) 138 Under contract (team option will be picked up), much older than Dunn
Ken Griffey (38) 138 No longer any good
David Ortiz (32) 138 Under contract, can’t play defense
Bobby Abreu (34) 133 should be available, but hasn’t hit as well as Dunn since ‘04
Mark Teixeira (28) 133 No position on Reds, much more expensive than Dunn
Jim Edmonds (38) 132 No longer any good, probably out of baseball
Jason Bay (29) 130 Under contract
Adam Dunn (28) 130

Who is (1) available, (2) “a better offensive player than Dunn”, and (3) makes the same money as Dunn? If you want to say we can trade for someone on this list, remember we could have kept Dunn without trading anyone away.

Dunn isn’t “the tallest midget”; he’s one of the 20 best hitters in MLB. There will be many teams bidding for his services this off-season.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

yeah, that sort of wraps up why we should've kept Dunn

not to mention that I’ve heard rumors from SABR folks that he’s actually like, average-to-above-average in LF now.

if he signs with the Texas to do some hometownishness, I think I’m gonna become a Rangers fan. If he signs with the Nats for the Kearnsishness, I will go to far, far, more Nats games.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree,

but if they built around Dunn how long would it have taken for this team to seriously compete? By the time this team got it’s proverbial shite together Dunn might have been on the edge of that not as good anymore category. The Reds are turning into one of those perpetually rebuilding franchises that never really rebuild. If they were really in rebuilding mode wouldn’t they have traded Arroyo, Weathers, Affeldt and anything else they could get rid of? Come to think of it, I’m not sure this team will ever get it’s shite together.

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

its proverbial

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To pile on

Another telling stat:

Dunn’s “<a href=”http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dunnad01.shtml" >offensive winning percentage" is .670 for his career; his worst season is .617. For reference, the Cubs have the best record in the NL (and 2nd best in baseball), and are at .612 on the season, while no NL since the ’54 Dodgers have had a winning percentage over .670.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok, I'm down with the whole SABR thing

but what the hell is offensive winning percentage? Honestly, how can you possibly compile that statistic? And how can you possibly compare it to teams…wouldn’t it be better to compare him to, you know, other players?

Help?

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

It’s kind of a stupid stat.

I’m guessing they take his RC/27, use league-average RA, and plug it into a pythag formula. If you compare him to other hitters, it comes out about the same: 20th among active players.

I just thought it would make a better point comparing it to actual teams.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see now

so the idea is that if you had a team full of Barry Bonds (including pitchers), you would have a team with an .817 winning percentage. I think the most interesting thing that tells us is that even the greatest team humanly possible would lose 20% of the time. Cool.

I can’t imagine Dougherty accepting that, but still. Cool. Thanks.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't want Griffey to go

I’m ok with trading pretty much anyone if you can get a good return. Trading Griffey for a couple of older fringe prospects does not excite me, though.

I liked watching Griffey play. It added to my enjoyment of watching the Reds, even if he is obviously on the backend of his great career. I’d much rather watch him than Corey Patterson and/ or Chris Dickerson, if the Reds are going to be horrible either way.

This team isn’t going anywhere this year. And the players they got for Griffey aren’t going to help them anywhere next year.

by Tanner on Aug 18, 2008 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They were never meant to

they were an excuse to ship him out on a rail and save a couple mil.

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 18, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much of his salary are they paying this year?

Either way, I’m not in favor of the move, and I don’t understand fans who support moves that save multi-millionaire owners money.

Why should I care if the Reds are able to find similar production at a much lesser cost? I like watching Ken Griffey play the game.

by Tanner on Aug 18, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

I found his play over the last several years to be an eyesore. I was shocked that anyone actually wanted him and supported the trade based on that. But different strokes, I suppose.

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 19, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Using the wrong sense.

See, you were using your EYES to evaluate Griffey. Had you said that you found his play over the last several years to be an EARsore, it would have been more credible.

Hey, if I had some place to go I certainly wouldn't be in 'Cleve-Land'. -H.T.Duck

by snohio on Aug 20, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're the first

I’m sorry, but Jr was no longer any fun to watch. He can’t hit, field, or run anymore. I want my team to win, and his inclusion on this team didn’t help them win either now or in the future. He should swollow his pride and retire, because he’s certainly not adding to his legacy.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Junior

was a cancer in the clubhouse, a defensive liability, a hot dog at the dish, and overpaid. I am glad to have $2M more in our pockets, and Masset might be a decent swing man for a few years on the cheap.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody have a free agent list

Last time I checked there were a couple of guys that were too expensive and would never sign here anyway and a whole bunch of dogshit players that would. Am I wrong?

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 18, 2008 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Here ya go

Free agent list.

Besides Slydes man-love recipient, I’d take a flyer on Baldelli. I’m guessing he won’t be expensive, and if healthy would be a nice stop-gap until/insurance against Stubbs.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Targets

I think we should go after Pudge and Pat Burrell.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding?

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not kidding.

As for Pat the Bat, Pat Burrell and Mark Teixeira are the only 2 big righty bats available that aren’t geezers or head cases. Given our recent signing of Yonder Alonzo, a long-term deal for a first baseman likely does not make sense for us, but we need a big righty bat. That equals Burrell, and he won’t be cheap.

As for Pudge, he’s old and in decline, and likely overpriced. But he’s still above average with the bat, calls a great game, can teach the youngsters, and speaks Spanish fluently. I think that’s huge for a team whose future is hinged on two Latin pitchers: Cueto and Volquez. All this while addressing a positional need, adding a marquee hall-of-fame player, and adding a clubhouse leader (who will have the instant respect of many of our youngsters, especially the Latin players) is a worthwhile expenditure.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it's Dunn for another Dunn, I agree, but...

To me the point isn’t , do you trade Adam Dunn for another Adam Dunn? That doesn’t get you anywhere.

It’s do you take the Adam Dunn money and turn it into two or three players that can help you in other places?

So maybe your LF isn’t quite as productive as Adam Dunn. But maybe you get two starting pitchers who are much better than two you currently have, and a better 3B. So you’ve slightly weakened one position and improved two or thee others.

That’s the quickest way you improve the team.

And fire Dusty Baker.

by MyScreenNameIsKevin on Aug 18, 2008 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure

that’s how it works. I don’t think 2 or 3 mediocre players add up to one good player. You can have a balanced lineup, but production is production, right?

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But that's not what you said

You said you could get a better offensive player for the same money.

Plus, it’s not realistic. League-average SPs are going for $10M+/yr on the open market; Dunn will probably get $15-17M/yr. Plus, while EdE is probably miscast as a 3b, he’s the only RH bat on the team right now (despite what Dusty thinks a cleanup hitter looks like). So you’ve spent all $30M (not just the $15M Dunn would cost), and now you’ve added another hole, without addressing the holes at SS, CF, or C.

Secondly, why would you need 2 starting pitchers? As long as Harang isn’t done, you already have him, Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez with a couple of viable candidates in the minors for the #5 slot.

Finally, that ignores a more important point: The dumbest way to try to improve a team is through FA starting pitchers. They always demand too much money for too many years for what they provide.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said...

You can’t judge this trade right now. You have to see what the Reds bring into spring training. Look, I’m a huge Reds fan. I want them to win. I don’t care if they win with Adam Dunn in LF or with Chris Dickerson in LF or Aaron Harang in LF, as long as they win.

All I can say is Walt Jocketty is responsible for building the best team in the National League since 2000. The Cardinals have more regular season wins, more playoff wins, more NL titles and a World Series win since 2000.

That’s better than I have done. Better than anyone on this blog has done. Better than any other GM in the National League has done.

He didn’t just automatically get stupid once he got to Cincinnati.

by MyScreenNameIsKevin on Aug 18, 2008 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In this thread

You have not said anything about judging the trade right now.

That’s beside the point, though. I don’t like the Dunn trade simply because (1) I think they are a much worse team without him with no easy way to replace that offense, and (2) I think they could have turned at least one of the extra picks if they did lose him in free agency into a player much better than any of those they received in the trade. Castellini disagrees with both of these point, which is fine. He’s the one whose opinion counts, and whose job is on the line.

But what I pointed out, and I think anyone should disagree with, is his thinking. He is, like Marty Brenneman, blaming the two best hitters on this team over the past 8 seasons for the bad performance. Not the pitching staff, which has been one of the 3 worst in the league every year Dunn has been on the team. Not any of the 7 managers since the Reds in that time. Not any of the 3 GMs who assembled those teams. Not the previous owner, who would rather give money to charity than spend it on a competative baseball team. No. Jockety said “But it wasn’t working, so we’re trying something different.”

I gave O’Brien the benefit of the doubt, because I thought he was trying to build a team through the minors; he rewarded us with one failed draft after another. I gave Krivsky the benefit of the doubt because he came from a successful organization; he rewarded us with The Trade and three crappy catchers. I gave Baker the benefit of the doubt; he rewarded us with The Game and Corey Patterson (who was 0-8 that day) leading off in 30 games.

I’m sorry, but I’m all out of BODs. Jockety has to prove to me he knows what he’s doing, and his words in this instance don’t bode well.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

I think Dunn is a good player. He is vastly unappreciated in Cincinnati and everywhere else really. How though would you go about building a team around him that is capable of competing within the next 2-3 years? I’m not trying to argue. I’m honestly asking: If you were GM who would keep, who would you get rid of, who would you try to bring on with the budget the Reds have?

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Frankly, they're mostly there

Dunn’s 28; he’s likely to be productive throughout a 5 year contract. He’s also not going to add significantly to payroll over that time (even if he gets $17M/yr, that’s only $4M more than what he’s making this year).

By position:
C: Hanigan? If not, a FA need (but I wouldn’t spend a ton on anyone; get a good defender, and let the rest of the offense carry him).
1B Votto: Going to get better, cheap for 5 more years.
2B Mark Ellis, or splurge for Orlando Hudson.
SS If BP can still play good defense here, that would open up 2B for a FA, and provide great offense at SS.
3B EdE next year, waiting for Alonso or possibly Fraser.
LF Dunn
CF A healthy Rocco Baldelli, with Drew Stubbs waiting in the wings
RF Bruce. Going to be very, very good.

SP Harang
       Volquez
       Arroyo
      Cueto
      One of Thompson/Bailey/Maloney
As long as Harang isn’t toast, and if you can ignore 4 outings by Arroyo, that would be a very good rotation.

RP Cordero (but not as closer)
       Bray
       Burton
       Lincoln
I’d start with those guys, and fill in the rest.

Dickerson looks like he can be a nice 4th OF; I’d keep Keppinger around for his versitility (though he shouldn’t be a regular starter). A decent RH RF/1B/PH, because the lineup is still too lefthanded. The other bench players can be had for not alot of money.

This should give you average or better offensive production everywhere except C and CF, excellent up the middle defense, a solid rotation (given the caveats about Harang and Arroyo; otherwise, that’s $20M/yr down the drain), and a decent bullpen (if you can keep Cordero from pouting).

It may take until ‘10 for all for all of the pieces to gel (or to get the pieces you need) but in a perfect world this is where I’d start.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 18, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Fair Enough.

I’m just not sure how many of these prospects are going to work out over a 2-3 year period. I’m pessimistic like that though.

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or

even a five year period if Dunn would have gotten that kind of contract.

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who would you keep

by blandonseid on Aug 18, 2008 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Walt

never said that “a team with Dunn and Griffey wasn’t working, so we’re trying something different." He said "…it wasn’t working, so we’re trying something different." "It” can mean the entire approach to the offensive scheme.

I think it’s folly to take eight words from an interview, declare your interpretation to be the only intelligent one, and then to use your interpretation of his meaning to disparage his “thinking”.

Kevin’s right – Walt has the benefit of the doubt on his “thinking” until he proves otherwise.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Walt never said that "a team with Dunn and Griffey wasn’t working, so we’re trying something different." He said “…it wasn’t working, so we’re trying something different.” "It" can mean the entire approach to the offensive scheme.

First, if I thought he literally meant a team without Dunn, I’d be the world’s biggest idiot. More importantly, what “different offensive scheme” should include getting rid of your best offensive player, and one of the best in the game? If you mean “small ball”, that isn’t going to work in a game where it takes 5 runs to win a game, and Jockety should know that (his teams in StL included Scott Rolen, Albert Pujols, and Mark McGwire (none of whom are known as speed demons; besides, Dunn’s a better basestealer than any of them).

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Aug 19, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fact Check

That article linked to in the original post says Griffey was born in Cincy.

In fact, he’s the second-best left-handed outfielder born in Donora, PA, on November 21st.

You can look it up.

(that has gotta be the coolest baseball trivia question ever.)

by bbjones on Aug 18, 2008 8:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

More confirmation of Bailey's "Blass Syndrome"

I just finished talking with some scouts from a couple organizations tonight(one very respected) and they are waiting to vulture down on him down in Columbus tonight(where he just finished another mechanically error filled inning). Basically these are the basic thoughts and paths how it happened:
1.Homer was a mechanics perfection freak in his first 2 years. They never saw anybody work harder in Dayton and Sarasota to improve and perfect his mechanics. By the summer of 2006, he had what they call “mature mechanics” many young 26 year olds don’t have and were better than Gallardo,Hughes and Pelfrey who were the peers that year.
2.Homer’s last full start of the season in AA was probably his best from a efficiency standpoint. Wayne Krivsky was at the game and went back after the game to meet Homer. Whatever happened after that meeting, he hasn’t been the same since.
3.Homer’s problems began in his next start when he “Blassed” a horrible game with 4 walks, 3 hits and no outs as he had to get pulled. Ever since then, he his mechanics have been subpar to outright bad at times. He has lost the ability to throw breaking balls which is practically impossible to do unless your physically injured.
4.By last summer, the Reds gave him a through examination that showed no physical problems or structural damage. Actually, he melted down in practice earlier in late April and couldn’t hit anything around the plate. The “groin” injury excuse was given then as it was in July. He actually got sent back to Texas to cool off and try to mentally get himself in gear.
5.Along with a slow step by step rebuilding of his mechanics in high A and carefull progress, Homer came back up at the end of last year and looked MUCH better in many respects:
a.He had better velocity and location
b.His breaking ball was finally showing the life it had the previous years in the Reds organization
Generally, the belief he was getting over the mental problems that bothered him the previous season were possibly over. However, his instructional league season was a relapse and began the winter trade rumors.
6.So by this year’s spring training, Dick Pole thought compacting his mechanics may get him the mental confidence needed to repeat his mechanics like he had before. It obviously didn’t workout.

So here we are. Stuck with a great arm, but ill mind. This isn’t typical mental problems such as effort or desire, he simply can’t pull the trigger like he wants to. The scouts I talked to don’t know why. Is it the pressure? Was he to much a pefection artist that cracked? Nobody knows.

Basically they all agreed no matter what organization(whether the Reds or somebody else) he is with they need to:
1.Come out and admit his mental condition,
2.Start him in high A where he can relieve himself of pressure and rebuild his mechanics piece by piece next season. Move him up accordingly. Volquez was also accused of the same problem FWIW as a 23 year old.

I would agree. The good news for Homer is that he doesn’t have a the bad cases like Ankiel or Blass himself, which their mechanics broke down so much they couldn’t get anything over the plate, but they are bad enough that it causes him to struggle.

Really sad situation. Another Krivsky blunder?

by Johnnypronto on Aug 18, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sad

Sad and I still hope you are wrong. But I do fully agree about sending him down to A ball. I don’t know what he needs to do mentally but I still think he has a bright future.

by kennythered on Aug 18, 2008 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So...

…it’s all Krivsky’s fault?

Dusty, is it you?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Aug 18, 2008 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bailey is still young, I wouldn't give up on him yet.

Consistently good MLB pitching has been the most difficult component (that it takes to have a winner) for the Reds to acquire. Voltron and Cueto will have a very important year under their belts, Bronson seems to be ‘bakc’, Harang’s condition is unknown. If (big word) Homer can put ti together by next year….well that should make a significant difference in how this team fares.But we still will have an offensive void on a team that is not that good at the bat.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 19, 2008 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When you make out the Reds rotation for next year

don’t forget Micah Owings. He is certainly a candidate.

by MyScreenNameIsKevin on Aug 19, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Krivsky hired Dusty....

so yes, it is all Krivsky’s fault.

AKA redsfan68 Nobody listens to Andrew

by nlt-andrew68 on Aug 19, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually Bob hired Dusty

So its all Bob’s fault. However, I doubt that Walt would have allowed Bob to hire Baker.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 19, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You really think that?

I think it’s the opposite. I think it was Walt that recommended Dusty.

Both really old-school type guys…

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Aug 19, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Walt wasn't hired until January

Baker was hired last October.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 19, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that is a coincidence and irrelevant

"Personally, I think he's probably a really big Lance Bass fan." ~ Marty on Doc

by chandrathan on Aug 19, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

But the Jocketty rumors started before Dusty was hired. I think they had an agreement, long before anything was officially announced.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Aug 19, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

but Jocketty was fired on 10/3 and Dusty was hired on 10/12. You think the Reds made a decision in 9 days? Or do you think Walt was talking to Castellini while still employed by the Reds?

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 19, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damnit, the Cardinals.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 19, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have that same thought quite often

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 19, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I think they did

Remember, Bob and Walt were old friends, from Bob’s days as part-owner of the Cardinals.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Aug 19, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe but I think Walt would have pushed for more of a TLR sabremetrically aware manager

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 19, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think so

The reason Walt was fired by St. Louis was because he “encouraged divisiveness.” And according to MLB Trade Rumors, the divisiveness was over sabermetrics. He was against them.

They’ve since removed the article, but it was copied on other sites (including this one) before it was taken down. It quoted Brian Gunn of Baseball Analysts and The Hardball Times as saying:

Supposedly Jocketty deeply pissed off his bosses – owner Bill DeWitt and team president Mark Lamping – for failing to develop an amicable working relationship with VP of player development (and stat maven) Jeff Luhnow. Supposedly Luhnow lived in fear of being seen around Busch Stadium, especially with reporters, for fear it would get back to Jocketty. And the Jocketty wing of the organization – the old-school scouting types – generally treated Luhnow, according to one source, "like a war criminal."

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Aug 19, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting bubba - no wonder he came to Cincinnati

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 19, 2008 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

one more link

Crazy Rainbow Lady

by Red Menace on Aug 19, 2008 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I laughed so hard at that woman

It was great. What scares me though is that these people are allowed to vote.

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 19, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if...

…she’s right?

"Being a human cannonball is not just a job, Pee Wee. It's a career."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Aug 20, 2008 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In Other Words....

….the Reds never had any intentions of keeping Dunn and signing him to a long-term contract. The ownership and front office caved in to those idiot fans who think a .900 OPS is obviated by a lack of gold glove play in left field or a .300 batting average. But these same cave-ins the run the team don’t mind taking our money when we come to the park, so we can watch a manager with a ten cent head allow Corey Patterson to imitate a baseball player. I’ve been a lifelong Reds fan, since the age of 5, and I can honestly say this is the lowest point since ’82.

by tonywf on Aug 20, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We need a new hope.

"Being a human cannonball is not just a job, Pee Wee. It's a career."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Aug 20, 2008 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This was meant to be a response to tonywf's exasperation.

"Being a human cannonball is not just a job, Pee Wee. It's a career."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Aug 20, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess this is an old Hope.

by bbjones on Aug 20, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

That Hope is stone dead. But, funnier than he used to be.

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 21, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well here's to middle aged Hope

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 21, 2008 1:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

and speaking of Hope

Going for the Gold

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 21, 2008 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs