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Thursday Quick Hits

O2wstubbs_medium

There's not a whole lot of fun going on in Redsland right now, but I thought I'd drop some things on you:

  • I know we're all getting a little burnt out on Adam Dunn discussion, but I thought Patriot had an interesting split personality conversation with himself about the subject.  My favorite line:
    Whatever. Dunn could be so much better if he changed his approach and tried to put the ball in play more often.

    I suppose that’s possible. But now you’re evaluating him based on what you think he should be, rather than what he is.
  • By the way, Dunn disputes Arroyo's claim that he is looking for $100+ million.
  • JinAZ is starting to settle into becoming JinPA and he finally got to watch the Reds last night for the first time in a while.  Poor guy.  Anyway, he brought up moving EdE to LF, something that we've discussed on this site before, and it made me wonder, is there any reason not to try it out starting right now?  Do the Reds really think that EdE can play thirdbase for well into the future?  If not, then why not take this opportunity to get some time in LF while the coaches can evaluate him and, you know, coach him? 
  • Similarly, Hal asks why Josh Fogg gets to keep pitching for the Reds while Homer Bailey is down in Louisville?  What's it say about the current Reds coaching staff that they would rather Bailey pitch in Louisville than with the big league team with big league coaches?  Clearly Bailey's not ready, but is it going to do any good for him to continue to be a AAAA pitcher against AAA competition?  But hey, at least we get to have Josh Fogg helping our chances of getting back to .500.
  • On a positive note, Drew Stubbs had an excellent debut for the Bats last night in Louisville's 6-4 victory.  He went 2 for 4 with a double, a home run, and a walk.  Bailey pitched alright, going 6.1 innings and allowing 4 runs on 7 hits while striking out six.  In unexpected news, Devin Mesoraco went 1 for 4 in Dayton's 4-2 win over Great Lakes.

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Agree with JinPA on Bob Walk

He didn’t really have the energy you’d want in the color guy, but he brought the goods in terms of analysis. His thoughts about how pitching low and away has changed over time was something I’d never heard discussed. And he was careful to preference many things with “conventional baseball wisdom tells you…”

Also Hal makes a mistake in his column when assigning the Pirates’ great 3B defense to Freddy Sanchez. It was Andy LaRoche making all those plays.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2008 10:28 AM EDT   0 recs

The players all look the same to Hal

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 10:29 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No no

thats making fun of the handicapped!

by kennythered on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd like to have a split personality conversation

about all of the Reds. That would be fun.

Matthew: But Corey Patterson sucks stinky assholes

Pops: Uh, well yes, yes he does. But do you have to use that kind of language?

Matthew: Fuck You. You’re 33 years old and call yourself Pops. Shut up, internet nerd.

Pops: Uh, how about a funny jpeg?

…..And so on.

Overserved and underwhelmed.

by Pops Daniels on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM EDT   0 recs

This sounds like the part of the alter-ego thread where boobs responded to himself

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 14, 2008 11:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

could Stubbs be an answer?

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on Aug 14, 2008 11:16 AM EDT   0 recs

If the question was "What's the last name of the Reds 2006 first round draft pick"

then yes, it could be

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 14, 2008 11:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is he related

to Franklin?

Phone's ringing, Dude.

by rjdio on Aug 14, 2008 11:25 AM EDT   0 recs

I need to have a multiple personality disorder conversation

Mads -Man, Dunner was my fav player
Virgil – WTF do you know about fishing
Mike – Hey we grew up on a farm assholes
Mads – So WTF do you know about fishing
Virgil – sMarty left Steve Stewarts rotting carcase on the side of the of the announcer’s highway then told everyone what great guy Steve was.EdE is his next victim..
Mike – What does this have to do with Adam Dunn
FrankPastore – When I was a pitcher, B4 I found Christ, i would have tried to fuck Dunn’s wife. Plus I wouldn’t have been friends with Josh Hamiltucky either.
Virgil – WTF do you know about Fishing Frank…
Mads – But Dunner was my fav player
FrankPastore – But he is from Texas, that’s Homo’s land down there
Virgil – WTF do you know about Corey Patterson’s asshole
Mike – I guess we’ll switch to Jay Bruce
FrankPastore – I wish Jeff Brantley and I were friends, but he’s into Gay Jesus
Mads – I caught a large mouth Bass once

A normal conversation from the interior chaos of the fragmented mind of a drunken bowler.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 11:33 AM EDT   0 recs

by slip I obviously mean split...

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Aug 14, 2008 11:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Freudian slip Mister...

How long have you been wearing women’s clothing?
Is your alter ego named Penny
Does she like bugs too…

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 11:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I actually don't know anyone named Penny...

And I don’t know a lot of girls that like bugs. This might of course be why I never seem to manage to get a girlfriend… And I prefer not to answer about women’s clothing…

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Aug 14, 2008 12:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

so is Jinaz's last name Inaz

or did he move from Arizona to PA?

I always thought his name was Justin Inaz, but maybe I’m evaluating him based on who I want him to be, not on who he is.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Aug 14, 2008 12:23 PM EDT   0 recs

I read it as "in a Z"

I think we overmeet as a society.

by Gray on Aug 14, 2008 12:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

inaz was a pseudonym

created from “in AZ”

What do you mean, "blank slate"?

by boobs on Aug 14, 2008 12:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I was under the impression that he was Justin Inaz and he lived in Arizona

and the handle was just an awesome coincidence

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 14, 2008 12:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Conversation

I (you) Democrat or Republican?
Me Neither
I (you) Democrat or Republican?
Me Neither
I (you) Democrat or Republican?
Me Neither

It went on and on like this for awhile. They just don’t listen or don’t understand. I can’t figure out which one it is.

Obama/McCain Forever 08

by blandonseid on Aug 14, 2008 12:56 PM EDT   0 recs

The Adam Dunn Debate

has spilled over into the paisley-carpeted and soul-deadening conference rooms of academe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPt8UVU7bXs

Shockingly, this occurred in Baltimore.

(NSFW)

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2008 12:57 PM EDT   0 recs

But what does Hitler say?

I think we overmeet as a society.

by Gray on Aug 14, 2008 12:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hitler

was from Gori, no?

by blandonseid on Aug 14, 2008 1:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

wow

i dont know what that was, but it entertained me

What do you mean, "blank slate"?

by boobs on Aug 14, 2008 1:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not ashamed of my behavior. I don't think I'm acting immaturely.

Says the guy that dropped his pants.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 1:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

johnedwar'd

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2008 3:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

seriously

what are they even arguing about? Surely not something as important as batting average with RISP.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 1:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It was the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) competition

Judging from their website, it looks like this year’s resolution was the following:

Resolved: that the United States Federal Government should substantially reduce its agricultural support, at least eliminating nearly all of the domestic subsidies, for biofuels, Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations, corn, cotton, dairy, fisheries, rice, soybeans, sugar and/or wheat.

I’m not sure if this was actually resolved for this year’s regional competitions, national or whether it is actually what’s been put forward for 2009.

The friend who sent this to me had a close friend who was there. Here is, APPARENTLY, what happened:

In debate you have the opportunity to “strike” two of the five judges from judging the debate. (I have a feeling some of you out there were high school or college debaters and can lend some more insight into this) Captain Insano’s team from Ft. Hays State (Kansas) “struck” Shanara Reid-Brinkley from Pitt, as she had given them one of their low scores at some point prior. This is pretty standard but becomes a bit of dicey issue because of Reid-Brinkley’s race and gender. There is a very prominent theory about “the extension and protection of white privilege” as it relates to public discourse. That to remove Reid-Brinkley would be to cut off the lone representative of a particular avenue of discourse. Reid-Brinkley had objected to her being struck on these grounds.

Either concurrent with this or unrelated to this, the Towson State team was bringing subjects into the debate that Captain Insano and his FHSU team thought were extraneous to the resolution. A childish game of facial gesturing and posturing broke out between Reid-Brinkley and Shanahan and that’s where we pick up the action.

As of this writing, the video has been removed from YouTube. There are probably many reasons why it was taken down, but, despite all their verbiage to the contrary, never underestimate the professoriat’s capacity to bully, manipulate and intimidate. It’s quite breath-taking.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2008 3:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

God I love the academic world its so ....real

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 1:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So here's something good...

I started a thread on the Reds facebook app today about John Erardi’s latest blog post about Adam Dunn. Basically, I wanted the Dunn bashers over there to read it, and see some kind of reaction.

Here’s the best part of the first reply so far:

And just a little FYI, Erardi’s a total dbag. There’s a reason these are the pieces he writes, and half of the stuff that gets published in the paper he has at the bottom that the facts came from like 3 or 4 other people.

I mean… how I even respond to something like that? True Cincinnati media bias at it’s finest specimen.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 14, 2008 1:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Adam Dunn now plays for the D-backs

End of story.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 1:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

if you say so

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 1:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I do..but I don't really want it to be

and I for sure recommend that if anyone is ever thinking about listening to Sufjan don’t. Boy they have got to be one of lamest bands I’ve heard in years. Fucking bunch of pussies. I’ll bet Adam Dunn doesn’t listen them

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 2:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sufjan Stevens is just one guy

If his band has a name, someone else will have to tell me what it is. I like him though, and so does Smithsonian Magazine. I defy you to come up with two better arbiters of musical taste than that.

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2008 2:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Brendan, your Mom told me that you have very good taste but in a somewhat limited musical vocabulary.

As much as I’ve enjoyed my visits to the Smithsonian Institiute…That magazine sucks baboon balls. So you gotta find one more qualified person to back your claim. Although anybody who wears large butterfly wings on his back (and requires the band to do do also) MAY have Crolfer as a fan.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 3:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What's so obscure about Crolfer?

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 3:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I can't believe this

I’m sort of with Madville on this (minus the ad hominem). I get his niche appeal, but I don’t get his critical accolades.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2008 3:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I heard

this dood is a Jesus Christian. I’ll bet that guy that heares God voices about firing agents listens to this. I do wonder what Adams Done has on his i-pode thogu.

Michael: Now, the soldiers are paid to fight; the rebels aren't. Roth: What does that tell you? Michael: They can win.

by havanaconnect on Aug 14, 2008 3:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jeremy Affedlt, Hobbs and Frank Pastore are big Sufjan fans

Man M. you say this guy has received critical acclaim I Acclaim Indeed. Stevens composed and recorded the music for his second album, Enjoy Your Rabbit, a song cycle based around the animals of the Chinese Zodiac that ventured into electronica. Whoo Hoo!!! At best. this guy sound like a wimpy Paul Simon but is lacking in Simon’s musical depth and certainly lacks any vital energy. Raffi has more energy than this dude. Yanni has has more depth than this guy. Man Mountain’s work must blow Stupjam out of the water.

Whoa dude – fly away, fly away – fly away home. I can’t believe that he’s from Detroit.

You can tell your uncle stuff that you could not tell your dad. That is kind of the role of an uncle. I feel very much like a father sometimes but sometimes I feel like a teammate.
Dusty Baker

by Madville on Aug 14, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I couldn't blow bubbles out of the water

.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2008 4:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I know someone who could

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 14, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

if we're gonna talk Sufjan

can we just mention the awesome, incredible, Zombies Walk remix?

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Aug 14, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I hate it when people incorporate evidence in their arguments.

Those people suck and should be ignored.

I think we overmeet as a society.

by Gray on Aug 14, 2008 2:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pretty much the gist of my response, actually.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 14, 2008 2:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I tried to join your little application but it crashes FF every time

and I pretty much hate Facebook.

Suffice to say that Erardi isn’t a douchebag, just someone who understands his limitations. He’d rather make informed statements than just rant and rave. Actually, now that I think about it, it does kind of make him a douchebag.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 2:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, the app is really buggy

but I think my response sums things up pretty well. Here’s what I told her:

Do you know John Erardi? I don’t see how you can say he’s “total dbag” without even meeting him… especially when I know a few of the guys who’ve contributed to his articles, and they’ve had nothing but good things to say about the guy. Talking to other people to research your articles isn’t a bad thing, as you insinuate… maybe Paul Daugherty and John Fay should do a little more of that so they don’t keep getting called out for writing terrible columns.

I’ll remember to pick that name up on my way out.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 14, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You shoulda replied

“You wanna get Slyd, fool? I didn’t think so!”

BTW, you still want that audio? Email me if so.

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 14, 2008 2:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sent.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Aug 14, 2008 3:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

All Dunn

Ha!

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 14, 2008 3:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

other possible avenue of response

here

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2008 3:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

dbags

I did hear that the people who Erardi talks to are total d-bags. Maybe it’s that d-bagginess that is coming through Erardi’s columns… -j

by JinAZ on Aug 14, 2008 4:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, word is that they live in their Mom's basement

and eat cheetos all day while they play on their computers.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 4:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

EdE in LF...

EdE in LF is a HORRIBLE idea. EdE has a career OPS of .803. The average starting corner outfielder in MLB has an OPS of .850. EdE has only surpassed that OPS once, with a .852 mark. The average starting third baseman in MLB has an OPS of around .832, and EdE struggles to get to that level of production. Yes, he’s a below-average fielder at 3B, but not by terribly much. What’s more, he should continue to improve, as he’s only 25. I am unconvinced that he will improve significantly offensively, so a move to a corner OF spot seems like folly to me. What’s more…with whom do you replace him? Keppinger at 3B? He hasn’t hit for a full season yet. Same goes for Freel. And the free agent market would be perilously expensive for little upgrade value. EdE at first is reasonably productive at a reasonable price, with some upside…unless you move him to the outfield, where he will immediately be below average in just about every way.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 14, 2008 3:29 PM EDT   0 recs

I'm confused

Where are you getting your numbers? This season, the average LF has an OPS of .795 and the average RF has an OPS of .790. Last season it was .800 and .804. The average 3B is .774 and .784 the last two years. I don’t know how you figure “starting” but that seems like a huge difference to the numbers you are posting.

Yes, he’s a below-average fielder at 3B, but not by terribly much.
I’ve defended EdE’s defense since he came up, but there is no reasonable defensive indicator that says he is anything but one of the 5 worst defensive 3B in the league. THT’s RZR has him as the worst qualified 3B in the league, by far.

What’s more, he should continue to improve, as he’s only 25.
But the thing is, he’s not improving. He’s getting worse. It’s not just the errors, he doesn’t get to the balls that other guys get to.

I am unconvinced that he will improve significantly offensively, so a move to a corner OF spot seems like folly to me.
Now why do you think he’ll improve defensively but not offensively when he actually has been improving offensively? His OPS+ this season is the highest of his career. He’s set career highs already in HRs and BB and while he probably won’t set a career high, he will more than likely increase his doubles over last season The only thing that really concerns me this year about his season is a serious drop in line drive rate.

with whom do you replace him? Keppinger at 3B?
If Keppinger is going to play, I’d much rather have him defensively at 3B. And then I’d move BP to SS and sign Mark Ellis in the off-season. Also, most of their good hitting infielders in the minors project to be 3B. Might as well go ahead and open the spot for them now.

EdE at first is reasonably productive at a reasonable price, with some upside…unless you move him to the outfield, where he will immediately be below average in just about every way.

Average OPS at 1B this season: .805. Last season: .821. I don’t see how he is below average in the OF but not at 1B where the offensive level is much higher.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You and Mark Ellis need to get a room

Unless that violates the EPO. :)

How can such a good looking man be so bad at getting to first base?

by jch24 on Aug 14, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

replace him at 3rd with LLM ....

"I never use a big word when a diminutive one will work." — Pete Mackanin.

by joshuar9476 on Aug 14, 2008 4:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What does the European Patent Office have to do with this?

I figure if I keep talking about Mark Ellis maybe he’ll hear me and want to sign with the Reds.

I’m more a hello man and a welcome man than a good-bye man. And to me Adam Dunn was more a person than a player.

by Slyde on Aug 14, 2008 4:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

total value

PH’s comment also makes the error of thinking that certain positions (1B, LF, RF, etc) have to have offense to be productive. You can have an outstanding left fielder who has a below-average bat but a brilliant glove. The reason we tend to put our top defensive players up the middle is that they get more opportunities and thus can leverage their defensive skillz to a greater effect. But there’s nothing that says a player can’t contribute a lot of his value on defense in a corner position. A run saved is just as good as a run scored.

The question is whether or not Eddie’s fielding skills are well-served at third base. His arm isn’t particularly accurate, for example, though it does have strength. He also has a tendency to hurry his footwork and to sidearm throws, which he might be less prone to do if he has more time to set up or if he has to throw a greater distance. This all might mean that his throwing skills (at least) are a better fit for the outfield than third base. Ryan Braun is a plus LF’er after being perhaps the single worst defensive player on a per-inning basis in baseball last year at 3B.

I don’t know if it would work with Eddie, but I definitely agree that I’d like to see the Reds try it. Makes more sense to me than moving both Eddie and Votto to new positions as I think PH is proposing.

As for replacements…maybe Keppinger. Maybe a free agent. Given that we don’t have any top candidates for LF either, I don’t think it makes much of a difference if we go into the offseason looking for help at 3B or LF. Heck, if nothing else, it might give the Reds the flexibility to look for help at both positions and see what works out.
-j

by JinAZ on Aug 14, 2008 4:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OPS starting position players

The numbers in my post on Aug 14, 2008 4:14 PM PDT were openly questioned…so I did a more formal compilation of the OPS numbers for starting position players since the beginning of the 2000 season. Some metrics were identical to my single-season study of 2002, some so far off that I felt compelled to come clean to my critics. Here are the numbers by position for players who qualified for standard stat leadership (3.1 PA per game played by their team), along with catchers with 400+ PA in a season (this was a fair compensation by my measure of total qualifying individual players at each position and lowering the PA requirement for catchers until the total qualifying catchers equaled the same total as the average total qualifying players at other positions):

OPS FOR AVERAGE STARTING MLB POSITION PLAYERS 2000-CURRENT

C .758
1B .865
2B .770
SS .739
3B .803
RF/LF .826
CF .780
DH .911

I feel these numbers are helpful in judging what offensive output a player should have at a given position, as an average. Clearly a positive clubhouse influence, highly skilled defensive or base-stealing specialist could be productive at a position with a OPS lower than the average at that position, but I find the offensive baseline to be quite useful – especially when evaluating free agent veterans to acquire.

I also think this raises concerns about acquiring Mark Ellis to play 2B while shifting Brandon Phillips to SS. Yes, Ellis fields well – but he hits far below average for a starting 2B. It’s subjective as to whether he fields well enough to make up for this disparity.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 19, 2008 8:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The numbers...

The numbers I have stated are for starting position players, not the “average player”. The offensive difference between starting players vs. all position players is always going to be substantial. I’ve run the starting players’ stats for several seasons within the past 6 years, and they seem to gravitate to the same averages by my count, but I have not been terribly scientific in this approach. It all depends on what you determine to be a “starting player”, be that qualifying to be a league leader based on plate appearances (a pretty consistent metric), or you could choose the single player from each team that had the most PAs at each position (poor statistical approach). To summarize this point, my study of numbers I believe to be accurate, and it IS important to look at starters by position, rather than factoring in the Juan Casto-types into the equation. I am sure JinAZ can do a much better with the exacting numbers, cuz he’s great at it. But if you go look at the qualifying league leaders by position, I think you’ll find that the numbers hold pretty true.

Average starters’ OPS by my crude measure:

SS .733
C .734
2B .756
CF .780
3B .832
RF/LF .850
1B/DH .861

Perhaps EdE is a defensive liability, but I am skeptical to draw a firm conclusion based on either defensive metrics or my eyewitness account, as both are usually unintentionally flawed.

Yes, EdE’s OPS is the highest of his career…by a statistically insignificant 0.9%. Compare his OBP or SLG or OPS, which stay in roughly the same range in each year or his career since he was a rookie, and he hasn’t shown me reason to expect offensive improvement. I hope I’m wrong. But bragging that he might edge out his career high in doubles sort of proves my point. His BA and OBP are significantly below any of his full seasons, while he’s up in other areas. I don’t see enough improvement in any area to declare that this as a path to offensive growth. I DO believe players who work on their defense DO improve over time from where they are at age 25. I have nothing to back this up, so discard the notion if you’d like. We’re all reading tea leaves about the future, anyway. If an asteroid approaches earth tomorrow and Ben Affleck isn’t primed and ready with a rocketship and a giant drill, we’ll never find out anyway.

I don’t like Slyde’s infield of Keppinger, Phillips, Ellis, and Votto. Kep would be below average at 3B both offensively and defensively. Ellis hits like my sister, but without the beer-breath she normally sports while slugging guys in the parking lots of bars throughout Middletown…AND BEYOND!

And my post of “EdE at first” should have read EdE at third. We’ll score that one E-ME.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 14, 2008 7:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

total value

"PH’s comment also makes the error of thinking that certain positions (1B, LF, RF, etc) have to have offense to be productive. " – JinAZ

I haven’t made that error at all, and you’ll find nothing in my post that makes that leap. Clearly, a player who is above average offensively may be so bad defensively that the offense doesn’t make up for the fielding follies, and the opposite is equally true. So you’d be a fool to start Juan Castro at 1B because he hits so poorly in comparison to a replacement player at an easy defensive position, regardless of his “Manos de Oro”. Also, Jorge Cantu can swing the stick, but players voted him the worst defensive player in the league, so I wouldn’t play him just based on his bat stats.

I am not suggesting that EdE switch positions – I actually argue the contrary. And moving Votto to LF would be playing him at a position he’s played about 50 games at as a professional. He ain’t great shakes out there…probably better than Dunn and about as good as Pat Burrell (whom I believe should be one of our FA targets, as he provides the big righty bat we need). Based on the 2009 FA class, I’d try to sign either Burrell or Mark Teixiera for that role. If we signed big Tex, I would move Votto to LF and Dickerson in CF. I don’t see any FA 3B acquisitions who would be significant upgrades for the cost. And that’s really my point here…EdE is a little below average overall as a 3Bman, but is reasonably priced for the value and has some upside. As a LF, he’d be less valuable due to his limited offense as judged against the other starting left fielders, in combination with playing out of position. I also think boobies are awesome.

by PeteyHendrix on Aug 14, 2008 7:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Righty bat

Do we really need a righty bat? Currently, we’re sort of right heavy when it comes to “sluggers.” EdE and BP are both right-handed. Bruce is our left-handed power threat. After them, who? Votto? The bottom line is that we need a big bat, and at this point, it doesn’t matter what side they bat from.

I also reiterate that if we sign Burrell, I will kill someone. Because we had the player that Burrell is, only younger, and we let him go.

by Brendanukkah on Aug 15, 2008 12:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Righty Bat

It might not seem at first that we need a righty bat until you look at our lineup for 2009 with a FA lefty-hitting LF. That would give you a bunch of lefty bats (Dickerson, Votto, Bruce, +FA slugger) with the only contrary righty bats being BP and EdE, plus a SS. Teams would lefty us to death with such a lineup, much as they’ve done this year. Now instead imagine a lineup with a righty slugger (Pat Burrell, for instance):

CF Dickerson (L)
2B Phillips®
RF Bruce (L)
LF Burrell®
1B Votto (L)
3B Encarnacion®
C platoon
SS A-Gon/Keppinger®

Much more balanced. And to me, it’s not so terribly important that a lineup like this example is balanced, but that the opposing lineup would be so stacked with lefties as to