Rumblings

by DisplacedFan on Jul 3, 2008 5:43 PM EDT

Harang not untouchable EE is?

In the Rumblings column Jayson Stark mentions that Red's sources say he could be had. I don't understand this is at all. Harang's the perfect guy to have with the young guys.

Meanwhile big surprise is that Edwin Encarnacion is on the untouchables list with non surprises Volquez, Cueto, Votto, Bruce.

What Stark doesn't mention is that Brandon Phillips doesn't make the untouchables. I definitely still think he's safer and better than EE. It just makes EE's inclusion weirder.

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Yeah, this list came out a week or so ago

I guess Jocketty said it on a radio show. Maybe it was an off the top of my head type of statement.

The only thing I can think is that maybe they see EdE as more of a leader? Plus, EdE is cheaper. They are comparable at the plate (especially since EdE is 2 years younger). That’s the only thing I can think of in terms of why EdE would be untouchable

And remember, not untouchable does not mean they will be actively shopped. It just means they are willing to listen. And I think that should definitely be the case. Harang would most likely net the biggest return in a deal and if the Reds can realistically fix several positions over the long-term by dealing him, then you have to consider it. Come to think of it, this could also be a justification for dealing Phillips. His return would surely be bigger than EdE’s. Maybe they feel like EdE’s future value is more to the team than anything they would receive in a trade? Still, it seems odd to name him untouchable in that case.

Honestly, if I were Jocketty, it would have to be an amazing return for me to deal Harang. And my socks better be knocked off to deal Phillips as well.

I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...

by Slyde on Jul 3, 2008 6:04 PM EDT 0 recs

Slyde hearts Brandon

Stephen A. Douglas was a great debater, but Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 3, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

But what will the Post headline be?

We ain’t no last place team are we Pops ?

by Gray on Jul 3, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

Age

Yeah, I forgot about BP being older than EdE. It feels like EdE’s been around for forever and BP hasn’t. Still given equal numbers isn’t a 2b more valuable than a 3b. I do agree that BP would bring back more than EdE so that’s a really good point. The other point is that it seems like BP hasn’t always fit in. What that means I have no idea.

I guess I’m in favor of trading Harang and/’or BP if we get the return your talking about because I’m not as optimistic as others around here for 2009.

I’m almost in favor of not trading Dunn, and/or Griffey and reaping the draft pick reward though. It depends on what they would get in a trade for Dunn though. Personally I just don’t see the trade interest yet to net a decent return for Dunn. At this point we might be lucky to get a bag of baseballs for Griffey. A right handed bat in CF would be nice, but have no idea who that would be.

Let’s get Alonzo signed and put Votto in the AFL see if he can play left field. See if Frazier can play 2B. Find a CF (I think Krivsky struck out on Stubbs). I guess for me if I was running this team I would be all about being ready for 2010. As always develop as much pitching as possible. Try to hold down the catching fort until the kid they drafted last year is ready. Optimistically that leaves that same hole in center field.

Maybe instead of signing high dollar replacements for Dunn and Griffey, they put that money into next years draft and continue to be aggressive in the international market.

by DisplacedFan on Jul 4, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up 0 recs

Harang and MY Rumblings

Harang goes no where. I doubt we would “shop” him as it would be selling low for us. I also doubt any team would seriously try to trade for him as he is having a down year and they know the price will be very high. They may kick the tires but I imagine they will see a nice big price tag. If a team were to “knock our socks off” then of course we’d listen but we souldn’t get our bowels in a uproar.

I feel like Edwin, Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Volquez, Harang, and Coco (though I think his market could be interesting and we would most likely eat no contract) are locked in for next year. If we were to trade any of these guys we had better fill our pressing needs at SS, C, and RH bat.

I think our moves should involve Arroyo, Hairston, Affeldt, Weathers, and Fogg. Now there will probably be little to no return on many of these guys but we just MIGHT be able to fill a few holes on our rosters and cut some payroll. I believe we are not very far from being contenders and if we allow a little more development of our youth, add a productive right handed bat and resign Dunn we can more than compete next year.

Very important for next season will be how we handle our pitchers down the stretch this season. I think shutting down Cueto, Volquez, and Harang would be a good move. I wish Harang didn’t sniff 200 innings but I bet he still will. Aaron seems tired and three years of 211, 234, and 231 probably did it. He could use a shorter season I’m sure. Also the young guys are not used to this long of a year so stretch them a little but don’t over work them. It would be cool to climb back into contention but that could really hinder our young guys development.

I also think we need to give Homer some sort of mandate about what we expect and what he needs to accomplish before he gets back to the majors. We need to try to make him into a major league pitcher because I don’t think he’ll do it on his own.

But what do I know? Prolly nothin, just that I pull a give a pinkie to get these guys competing year in and year out.

by kennythered on Jul 4, 2008 2:32 AM EDT 0 recs

hairston??

I think dealing hairston would be a bad idea at the moment. He’s our first effective lead-off hitter in ages, plus he’s somewhat discounted in the price dept. I’m for playing him at short this and part of next year, at least until Valaika is ready. Judging by Valaika’s time in Dayton (where he was my favorite player) he would be a good lead-off possibility. I also feel it would be a wise idea to move Kepp-mo into the outfield and deal for a of right hand power bat if the future doesn’t include dunn and griff. I know this won’t be a widely embraced idea because Hairston and Kepp aren’t power hitters and we all know how much cinci loves relying the long-ball (urgh. in case anyone’s seen my “angry” posts that has something to do with it sometimes) and i know hairston is somewhat unstable injury-wise but i think we should ride that train as long as it is on the tracks. isn’t it nice to have a runner on base (be it by laser beam hit into the wall or little dying quail over the infielders ala hopper) in the first inning? That is a step towards playing smart baseball. Also, i kinda take issue with the idea of stopping cueto’s development early… I think its a better idea to work his kinks out this year…ALL year than stop half-way and have him still rookie-esque next when we SHOULD compete. I for one would like to see him taken deeper into ball-games slowly…work his way up to higher pitch counts. Everyone worries, i know, but how long do you treat him like a 200,000 dollar car you’re too afraid to actually drive? At some point, maybe in the near future, we’re going to need him to pitch often and hard to get us into the post season. I’d rather see him help us win than shelve him and rely on the bullpen (earlier than burton-cordero innings) when we have a real chance to DO something. Look at pitchers like feller and paige, they pitched complete games all the time and had nice long careers…with all we know now we should be able to work pitchers up to that level of stamina instead of fearing it like middle age peasants feared evil spirits. Also, unrelated…sorta… I’m in favor of sending EdE, Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Volquez and anyone else who needs work, major or minor leagues to winter ball. Look what it did for cueto last year! As I said, I value improvement more than fearing injury and embracing mediocrity. Sure, it is a risk, but so is anything besides rapping them in bubble wrap, putting them in cryogenic freeze and NEVER letting them pitch. that’s the only way to be sure they won’t ever be injured.

You are all wrong.

by jeebus on Jul 4, 2008 4:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

wow…wish i could edit some typos and what not…damn you 5 am wake-up times!

You are all wrong.

by jeebus on Jul 4, 2008 4:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

reply

1. paragraph breaks. use them…enbrace them

2. I’m still waiting on your well-researched and well-reasoned argument on why the Reds would be better off relying on a “small ball” philosophy to “manufacture runs” rather than the “long ball.”

Tick tock.

He's doing it. He's eating a tire!

by Man Mountain on Jul 4, 2008 5:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

small ball

wouldn’t that require something that resembles consistent hitting?

I’m all for playing small ball in certain situations but not as the primary strategy, and especially not in Great American Ball Park

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Jul 4, 2008 9:20 AM EDT up 0 recs

Myself

I’m in favor of getting hits, be they small or large. More hits for more wins, that’s my philosophy.

by Brendanukkah on Jul 4, 2008 9:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

A large ball would be easier to hit...but will it go as far

Seriously, small ball is only part of the stgrategy, anyone who thinks that you can win it all with small ball in GABP is a moron.

"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.

by Madville on Jul 4, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

so are you pro softball?

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on Jul 5, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

Har Har - I'm pro 'All Balll'

"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.

by Madville on Jul 6, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

research

use it. everything known about pitching today suggests handling your young pitchers with care and responsibility is the WTG (that means “way to go”, BTW). i think your car analogy is apt, though. he is an expensive new sports car. if you take the price tag off a new car and outta the garage and burn it down the road at 100 miles an hour, youre going to break something. just like pitchers, they need to be eased down the road and broken in before you put pedal to metal. Cueto, EV, and Homer all have the potential to be bona fide staff aces, but they wont ever reach that potential if you fuck up their arm at the age of 23. sure, guys like Feller and Paige were monsters, but what about all the dudes you never hear about that lost their careers due to over-work and injury? there is no way to know just how many “coulda beens” there are out there, but for every Feller and Paige there is a Prior and Koufax.

Stephen A. Douglas was a great debater, but Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 4, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up 0 recs

Well

Its not like we control Hairston next season. The guy is going to hit the market and are you willing to over pay him? I envision him being very good for the rest of the season and coming back ot earth some next year, then completely falling off. I would hate to see a 3 yr deal thrown at this guy but I see it happening, thats why I think shopping him would be a decent option.

Dodgers must have interest looking at Furcal’s injury getting worse and worse.
Mets would prolly have interest with Castillo going down.
Oak could have interest if Crosby stays with his career norms of injuries.
And I’m sure there are a few other teams. The guy is 32 and has a career .258/.328/.365 line. I think he has proven in the past he is not cut out to play everyday.

I do like Valaikia however and do feel he is underrated if his glove can keep him at SS. (I’m tired of crappy fielding SS’s. Lets get us a top defender up the middle and have one of the best DP combo’s in baseball!)

With the pitchers they say add 25 innings a year, give or take. He threw 22 more innings last year than in 06 and I think that should be how it goes this season. 130 in ‘06, 152 in ‘07, and 170 or less in ‘08. Now with that said I hope the Reds have scouts looking at how many pressure innings they have thrown and how many pitches Cueto throws, not just innings. I wish Cueto would pitch deeper in games too but he’s not going to even if he has a shutout going but 115 pitches in the 5th.

All I want is for his, Volquez and Harang’s arms to hold up for a chance of very good success next season and in the FUTURE. Not try to do it one year and ruin these guys arms. How bad would it be if we made a run like the Rockies last year and Cueto and EV threw 230 innings and Harang threw 250 and these guys arms were shot and we never got close again? So lets continue to plug holes any way we can and just bide out time!

by kennythered on Jul 4, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hairston is probably at his peak value

he is cheap and playing really well. This is a last place team, so Hairston could probably bring in a nice low level prospect, (Darryl Thompson-esque) or a high level propsect with a low ceiling (Matt Maloney-esque).

I don’t want Cueto to get hurt. Pitchers who log alot of innings at 22 and 23 are in danger. If he were coming off age at 25 or 26, I wouldn’t be as afraid. His frame is still filling out. No reason to ride him hard to beat the Pirates for 5th place.

Plus I would like to see a guy like Maloney get a little time in the big leagues, I doubt he will be much more than a crafty 5th starter, but I think he is reaching the point where it is time to give him the call, just so he can get his feet wet. With scrubs like Fogg, and prospects like Maloney and Thompson, no reason to ride Harang, Volquez, and Cueto too hard, they are diffently the future.

I jsut realized I completly forgot to mention Bailey as a prospect. I still think he will figure it out.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on Jul 5, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Unrelated

Anybody have Bozo the Clown in the DP?

I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...

by Slyde on Jul 4, 2008 9:50 AM EDT 0 recs

No, but boobs' roommate and Gray had Jesse Helms

39 points to each.

1. Brian B’s wife: 143 points (Charlton Heston, Robert Mondavi, Bo Diddley)
2. Red Menace: 87 points (Charlton Heston, Bo Diddley)
3. boobs’ roommate: 80 points (Charlton Heston, Jesse Helms)
4. ctnyc: 69 points (Harvey Korman)
5. Madville: 61 points (Bob Howsam)
6. Alan: 46 points (Bo Diddley)
7. BLee: 41 points (Charlton Heston)
7. JD: 41 points (Charlton Heston)
7. JD’s wife: 41 points (Charlton Heston)
8. Gray: 39 points (Jesse Helms)

by Red Menace on Jul 4, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up 0 recs