ESPN: Who is the all-time greatest in Reds history?

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2008 8:43 AM EDT

You may have seen this on BBTN, or if you are like me you saw it linked from another blog because you don't watch BBTN even though it used to be the greatest show on television before they decided to mail it in and market to the lowest common denominator. Anyway, they are doing one of their schticks where they let you the fan vote on the greatest player in an organization and then they'll talk about it on TV. So, it's sort of like you'll be on TV, just like Eric Estrada.

You can vote right here. Your choices are:

Johnny Bench (1967-1983):
Cannon-armed catcher made the All-Star team 13 years in a row.

Dave Concepcion (1970-1988):
Slick defensive shortstop made nine All-Star teams. Hit .357 in the 1976 World Series.

Paul Derringer (1933-1942):
Went 2-1 with a 2.79 ERA in 1940 World Series win.

Ted Kluszewski (1947-1957):
"Big Klu" mashed 40+ HRs three years in a row. Made four straight All-Star teams.

Barry Larkin (1986-2004):
Made 12 All-Star teams, and won the 1995 MVP award with a .319 BA and 51 steals.

Joe Morgan (1972-1979):
Back-to-back MVP seasons featured .320+ BAs, 114+ BBs, 60+ steals, and 100+ runs.

Tony Perez (1964-1976, 1984-1986):
1652 RBI ranks 25th all-time.

Frank Robinson (1956-1965):
Made six All-Star teams. 586 HRs rank seventh all-time.

Pete Rose (1963-1978, 1984-1986):
Still the all-time leader in hits, games played, and times on base.

Bucky Walters (1938-1948):
Won 20 or more games three times in a row, including 27 in his 1930 MVP season.

How sad is it that the Reds haven't had a pitcher worthy of the discussion in the last 60 years? I think it's a good list, but the kid in me wishes Eric Davis was on there. Anybody else you feel like may have been deserving of consideration? Who is the first person they left off the list? Who would you vote for if this actually meant something? Does anybody still watch BBTN regularly?

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JB

I’d put Robinson 2nd, Rose 3rd, Larkin 4th

by homerun21 on Jul 29, 2008 9:38 AM EDT 0 recs

We all know Pete will win

Why bother? And I watch BBTN when nothing else is on because ESPNEWS is trying to give me a seizure.

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 9:46 AM EDT 0 recs

Ok, I'll bite.

1. Very sad. FSN must be pissed that Ewell Blackwell and Eppa Rixey didn’t make the list.

2. I think Dunner and ED may have gotten snubbed, but it’s a good list. (What about Mike Stanton? He has the second most appearances all time!)

3. Eric Davis has to be at least on the list. I don’t think he’d win, but he deserves to be mentioned.

4. Bench, and then Rose, Larkin, Big Klu, and Morgan.

5, Almost never. I’m still mad they got rid of Harold Reynolds.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jul 29, 2008 9:47 AM EDT 0 recs

i do miss reynolds ,, and do we blame them for sennding brantly our way?

Robinson, Morgan, Bench, Rose

by joshuar9476 on Jul 29, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

I bet Robinson will be 2nd or 3rd in Oriole voting

Ripken, Powell, Robinson, Palmer, Murray?

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th. Details at http://www.myspace.com/sinfulsavagetigers

by Man Mountain on Jul 29, 2008 10:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

shark week

let’s all bite!

Every once in a while I’ll catch BBTN when I’m out at a bar, and I still love the rare moments when the inestimable Karl Ravech stares deadpan just above the camera after something incredibly stupid has been said.

A few weeks/months ago I caught the show when Steve Phillips was hosting. That had to be the nadir. Without Ravech, the show has no one to identify with, really. I know former players are ratings draws, but I wonder if market research actually suggests that their audience wants more Fernando Vina and less Tim Kurkjian?

Anyway, I hope Bench wins this, but I suspect jch is correct that Rose will get it, which is no travesty. Morgan and Larkin have to be in the top 5.

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th. Details at http://www.myspace.com/sinfulsavagetigers

by Man Mountain on Jul 29, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, Ravech is okay too.

Does Steve Berthiume still do that show? “Say hello to my… li’l friend!” is still one of my favorite home run calls.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jul 29, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

You made me realize something

I find BBTN tolerable when Ravech/Kurkjian is speaking, but notsomuch the rest of the time.

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

Oh, and Gammons

I have a soft spot for Gammons.

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

Gammons's blood vessels have some soft spots too

by Brendanukkah on Jul 29, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

Gammons

really tears into Manny (freebie) like I’ve never seen him before. He’s sounding less (or is it more?) grandfatherly lately.

by ken on Jul 29, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

This was the piece I liked

After his recovery, thanking people by name. Classy, IMHO.

Link

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Why does Eric Young feel the need to yell about everything?

I realize he’s supposed to bring energy to the show just like the scrappy leadoff hitter he was, but it’s a bit much.

"I got a list of demands written on the palm of my hands. I ball my fist and you're gonna know where I stand. We're living hand to mouth! Hand to mouth!"

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Jul 29, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up 0 recs

i dont even know who is on BBTN anymore

i dont watch ESPN unless that endearing fella Stephen A. Smiff is on.

please dont shit on my dreams. i dont want shit on my dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 29, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

I may have told this story before

But it’s funny. (to me at least)

I was walking down the hallway one day and heard Stephen A. Smith’s voice echoing off the walls. Assuming someone had the 1360ESPN audio cranked up for testing, I sarcastically yelled out, “Stop yelling at me Stephen A. Smith, talk in a normal voice damnit!”.

An hour or two later, I was asked to help a “guest” in a studio with a computer problem. Guess who I came face to face with? He was in town to give a speech or something and was doing his show from our studios. It was him down the hall, not satellite audio. I was a little embarrassed but I’m pretty sure he didn’t recognize the voice. Seemingly nice guy, dumb as a rock though.

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up 0 recs

i gues you two had something in common!

So hey, umm....do you guys mind if I have this fruit roll-up?

by chandrathan on Jul 29, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yup

I am a 5’11” black man who like to scream to make a point.

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 10:35 AM EDT up 0 recs

I thought you were a 5'8" pregnant Hawaiian guy

I saw Screamin’ A. on the street once – he looked a lot taller than 5’11”. Then again I was fairly drunk.

by ken on Jul 29, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

Well, I'm 6'3" or so

And don’t really pay attention to people’s heights unless I have to look up at them (hi ‘than!), so you may be right.

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up 0 recs

jch could be my twin!

So hey, umm....do you guys mind if I have this fruit roll-up?

by chandrathan on Jul 29, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up 0 recs

yikes

that is a visual I am trying to burn from my memory

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up 1 recs

Rec'd

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

Davis?

I’m a huge Davis fan, but come on. He wasn’t even a Red for that long.

What about Edd Roush? Too early?

by Brian B on Jul 29, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

Bench, Larkin, Morgan, Robinson, Rose

It’s tough to put another catcher on the list because he won’t compare to Bench, but Ernie Lombardi probably deserves a mention. 6 ASG, one MVP and played on the ‘40 team.

Slyde, you fay’d the headline!

by ken on Jul 29, 2008 10:12 AM EDT 0 recs

Bench, Larkin, Morgan, Rose

but im voting for Larkin. because i wore #11 as a little leaguer, not #5.

please dont shit on my dreams. i dont want shit on my dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 29, 2008 10:17 AM EDT 0 recs

Pssht... what's wrong with wearing 5?

I wore 5 every season I could until I started pitching.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jul 29, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

I've always wondered

why pitchers don’t wear single-digit numbers (outside of Josh Towers). Anyone know/have a reason?

And as for me, my top 5 would be Bench, Morgan, Rose, Larkin, Robinson, in that order.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Jul 29, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

Josh Towers?

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'd assume

it has to do with the whole, “1-9 in the batting order get the single-digit numbers” concept from back in the day, and pitchers got the leftover numbers. I always thought it was cool to see Towers wearing the single digit though.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jul 29, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

Um

In the olden days, pitchers batted too. So they would have been included in the 1-9 part of the batting order. At least one member of the rotation, anyway.

by Brendanukkah on Jul 29, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

Well, yeah.

Semantics.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jul 29, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up 0 recs

What does Bill James have to do with this?

It's a lousy night to be an atheist!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up 0 recs

I was going to make a mention that Robinson and Morgan weren't on the team long enough

But I had no idea that Frank played ten years with the Reds. And that he never had an OPS+ under 133. Damn. I need to start learning more about this guy’s career.

Bench and Rose are pretty much 1 and 2 for me. They’re interchangeable. Larkin is #3, because he’s my favorite. Robinson will now be #4 and probably ought to be higher. Morgan at #5, trying all the while to not let the analyst that he’s become cloud the memories of the baseball player he was.

It’s interesting to look at Ted Klusewski and compare him to Adam Dunn. They’re really similar players, except Klu had a higher average and much fewer stikeouts. I still think Dunn is better overall, so I’ll be hoping to see his name on a list like this when his career is over.

by Brendanukkah on Jul 29, 2008 10:42 AM EDT 0 recs

Frank Robinson:

the answer to every reds trivia question

So hey, umm....do you guys mind if I have this fruit roll-up?

by chandrathan on Jul 29, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up 0 recs

Nothing to do with his playing ability

but, by coincidence, Frank Robinson came into my restaurant last night. He was actually a bit of a dick. We were on about a 45 minute wait; he walked in without a reservation and demanded to be seated immediately. When the hostess told him that would not be possible he actually patted her on the head and told her to go get a manager! The manager told him the same thing, which apparently didn’t sit too well with ol’ Frank. He eventually calmed down and we eventually got him seated. I didn’t wait on him so I don’t know how he behaved for the rest of the time, but I was a little disappointed that he’d been such a condescending jerk at the front desk.

by ctnyc on Jul 29, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

I blame that on his time spent in Washington

by Brendanukkah on Jul 29, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

I never waited on Robby

but the worst bastard I even had the misfortune to play servant to was Oscar Robertson. What a miserable insufferable sonufabitch he and his entire family were. Now, I know he had to go through some horrible stuff back in the day, but I wasn’t even jumping from ball to ball yet. Just disdained me and everyone else around. Johnny Bench was pretty bad too, and later when I wasn’t working was a guest at another function, he hit on my wife. I considered breaking his hip, but refrained.

The best (famous sporto) was Joe Torre. That guy was a sweetheart and knew wine inside and out.

Dusty Baker probably likes to kick cute little puppies too.

by Pops Daniels on Jul 30, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

that's what you get for playing above your level when you picked your wife

It's a lousy night to be an atheist!

by Slyde on Jul 30, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up 1 recs

My favorite sports metaphor for this is

“out-kicking your coverage”

Kentuck Arts Festival: October 18th.
Details at Sinful Savage Tigers on MySpace.

by Man Mountain on Jul 30, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

My father-in-law

grew up on a farm and says he “outbred himself.”

Dusty Baker probably likes to kick cute little puppies too.

by Pops Daniels on Jul 30, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

Too true

but the nice thing was that her fingers were just as long as his famous multi-ball mitts. And he was such a sissy about the way he hit on her. I was away and talking to other people and as I came back to her, there was Johnny was drooling and full court pressing. He saw me coming and quickly turned and went. Now, I aint no big guy, but what a sniveling, obvious sissy. I bet he and Steve Garvey are tight.

Dusty Baker probably likes to kick cute little puppies too.

by Pops Daniels on Jul 30, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

You bet they're tight?

Who was hitting on whom there, mister?

And in my experiences with Oscar, he was nice. Bench, notsomuch.

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 30, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

I had the pleasure of watching in person all of the choices with the exception of Klu, Derringer and Walters

Robby was so intense…but there’s no question, love him or hate him ,the greatest was Pete.
1 Pete, 2 Robinson, 3 Perez, 4 Bench

Tony was such a rock, what a great player, Bench too but I can’t rate him any higher than 4th.

I often think how different the world would be if Hitler had not been turned down when he applied for art school. - George Carlin

by Madville on Jul 29, 2008 11:25 AM EDT 0 recs

SERIOUSLY? IS THIS EVEN UP FOR DEBATE!

ITS OBVIOUSLY… DEION SANDERS!

Brent Jonathan Beck

by Brent Beck on Jul 29, 2008 11:44 AM EDT 0 recs

Just look out!

for him on his motor scooter..

Hey, if I had some place to go I certainly wouldn't be in 'Cleve-Land'. -H.T.Duck

by snohio on Jul 29, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yes. This is up for debate.

That’s why this FanPost was put up. For debate.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jul 29, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

He wasn't even our best Sanders

by ken on Jul 29, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

you got that right

It's a lousy night to be an atheist!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

We wasn't even our best Colonel

by Brendanukkah on Jul 29, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Colonel Angus!!!

by Brian B on Jul 29, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Pure evil

Look at those wee, beady eyes.

by ken on Jul 29, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

Must be a cubs fan.

I often think how different the world would be if Hitler had not been turned down when he applied for art school. - George Carlin

by Madville on Jul 29, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

Nah

They haven’t even BEEN IN a World Series since KFC was founded. :)

sig lines are for suckas

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

Win Shares

Anyone have the Win Shares book handy (or can you get them if you subscribe to BillJamesOnline)? I’d be interested to see them. My guess is Rose has the most career value but a lower peak than Robinson, Bench and Morgan.

Reading down the list I was going to say that Bucky Walters should have been included. Glad to see that he was.

by Red Menace on Jul 29, 2008 12:13 PM EDT 0 recs