The rest of the story....
The 2nd half is under way for the 2008 season. the Reds win a roadtrip and are 1 and 1 at home.With July upon us and the All Star game soon to be played, what changes do you think Walt Jocketty will make? How do you evaluate the the roster?
Jerry Jr - nice job, a keeper Dunn - another excellent season in the making Keppinger- the guy can hit and plays solid defense, if limited Griffey - A defensive liability and not a #3 hitter any more Brandon Phillips - SS of the future? An interesting hitter but not at cleanup Joey Votto - maturing nicley, both offensively and defensivley J.Bruce - a few bumps in the road, but a star in the making David Ross - heading back to 06 form? Bako - nice surprise and a good #2 Edwin E.- When will he emerge as a RH hitting force?
Plus - Hopper, Freel, and CoPat - who goes who stays? What about - Old man Weathers and Majewski?
I like the starting rotation if Bronson can keep his mechanics together and the bullpen has solid performers in coco, Bill Bray, Burton and Affeldt.
So if you are Walt Jocketty what do you do? Who do you move, and who do you keep?
This is Madville Harvey - good Day!
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Christ on a Maple Bat...I can't get stuff line up correctly - sorry
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jul 2, 2008 2:54 AM EDT 0 recs
Like Dunn
He should go back to ash (but not Ash).
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
Jul 2, 2008 8:30 AM EDT
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What no AshDunn Lovechild ?
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on
Jul 2, 2008 12:19 PM EDT
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I'd keep deffinantly keep
Harang, Cueto, Volquez, Votto, Bruce, Dunn (if he can be resigned), EdE, Corrderro, Phillips, Burton, Bray.
I would probably keep: Arroyo, Ross, Hopper (if he can pick it up a little, he isn’t an everyday player, but you can do far worse as a 4th outfielder), Kepp, Bailey (although I am starting to wonder if he needs a Volquez-esque change of scenory.)
I’d drop: Patterson, Griffey
undecided: Gary Majewski
The Dusty Path to the World Series!*
*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.
by justin007000 on Jul 2, 2008 11:22 AM EDT 0 recs
I forgot about Bailey - I'd move him while he's still movable
I do believe he needs a Voltron-esque chance of scenery.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jul 2, 2008 12:21 PM EDT 0 recs
do you think Johnnypronto is right?
Would an MRI fix it? I guess more to the point could there be something wrong with his shoulder or elbow? I would really like to know where his velocity went. A guy with a power arm and little command, can survive, a guy without a power arm and command, is well Jimmy Haynes.
The Dusty Path to the World Series!*
*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.
by justin007000 on
Jul 2, 2008 1:02 PM EDT
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There have been a lot of comments
over the last month or so about Homer’s loss of velocity and its relationship to his shoulder, elbow, arm, etc. But If you’re really worried about a pitcher’s loss of velocity, the first thing you look at is the acceleration of his hips, rather than his shoulder or elbow. Otherwise, you might just be plugging him into an expensive machine for an hour to no purpose.
The shoulder and elbow have far less to do with velocity than do the legs and the legs have less to do with velocity than do the hips. So, when it comes to improving velocity,
Hips>Legs>Arm.
As far as I can tell from reading Robert Adair’s The Physics of Baseball and Dr. Mike Marshall’s work (a lot of which is now online) , this is the current position of most kinetic physicists working on pitching mechanics. Here’s a rough and ready breakdown from Will Carroll’s Saving the Pitcher (which every fan would benefit from reading and owning):
But there is one key part of the pitcher’s anatomy that cannot be out of whack and still allow for success. It is also the reason that a pitcher who looks less like a prototype and more like an average guy or skinny Dominican can have the success that Billy Wagner or Pedro Martinez have…the one talent that every successful pitcher at any level has is the ability to accelerate the hips. Quick: name one drill that teaches this or that seeks to improve this skill. Most pitching coaches I posed this problem to came up blank. That, in a nutshell, is one of the major reasons why at every level we are often failing our pitchers.(p. 40)
And:
Within this kinetic chain of pitching, the rotation of the hips impart the most energy to the ball….In fact, hip rotational velocity is more closely associated with pitch velocity than any other mechanism in the chain. According to research done by Dr. Gelnn Fleisig, which looked at the force generated by many pitchers during biomechanical analysis, most of the force was generated at or near the hips. “Eighty percent of power is created at the core.”pp. 42-3
So while it could have something to do with a shoulder problem, it might have nothing to do with his shoulder at all. Not to play armchair diagnostician, but Homer’s velocity problems - if he actuallly has involuntarily lost his velocity - could just as easily be related to his groin problems from last year. If he has become more wary about pulling his groin, he might not be achieving the same speed in his hip rotation. Or maybe his over the head wind-up triggered some sort of energy transfer for him that was harmed by his abbreviated wind-up.
I think we’ve been overly concerned with his Homer’s arm to the exclusion of a number of other things that might be hampering his performance.
He's doing it. He's eating a tire!
by Man Mountain on
Jul 2, 2008 5:30 PM EDT
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Why can't a skinny Dominican be an average guy? That's racist!
Kidding.
Really nice post. I’d never heard that about the hips. Legs, yes. Hips, no. I still believe that Homer can be salvaged (or at least prettied up a bit before he’s moved). Without any kind of evidence, I wanted to subscribe to the theory that his mechanics had been tweaked in an effort to get better control, but he then ceased to be able to blow away hitters with his fastball. Obviously I don’t know what the problem is with him, but like your post suggests, there’s a wide range of things to choose from.
by Brendanukkah on
Jul 2, 2008 5:44 PM EDT
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the next big revolution in MLB team adminstration
will be teams loading up their medical and training staffs with biomech experts and equipment. (Actually the A’s and Giants kind of already did this in the late 90s.)
I’d like to see the Reds get in on this early, but, considering they haven’t really participated in the last management revolution, I’m not optimistic.
He's doing it. He's eating a tire!
by Man Mountain on
Jul 2, 2008 5:57 PM EDT
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Well done
There was an article posted at BBTF this week about Micah Ownings’ recent loss of velocity, with some video. It’s subtle, but the video clip shows that his hips rotate before rather than with his arm.
What you see here is the hips rotating aggressively forward and the torso coming along with it. But notice the arm’s position as this is happening: it is still rising up into a ready to throw position. Ideally, when the torso is uncoiled forward, the arm should be brought with it, but in Owings’ case, he loses out on the rotational forces that come with an aggressive hip rotation because his arm doesn’t move forward with the torso.
by ken on
Jul 2, 2008 6:04 PM EDT
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I was really hoping someone at BBTF or elsewhere would do something similar for Homer
but it I haven’t seen anything come down the pike.
He's doing it. He's eating a tire!
by Man Mountain on
Jul 2, 2008 6:10 PM EDT
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Good Stuff
Really good post and now I have some extra summer reading.
Just spit-balling but they took movement out of Homers windup this year, maybe it stiffened him up and he’s not getting the same power from the core.
by kennythered on
Jul 2, 2008 6:27 PM EDT
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Addendum
I also meant to mention the main reason the “get him an MRI” attitude bothers me.
Many times an MRI or other arm diagnostic will show a shoulder or elbow problem if a pitcher’s performance is suffering. But often this is a symptom of the problem rather than the cause. The “kinectic chain” of the pitching motion can transfer energy or stress to places where it shouldn’t go.
He's doing it. He's eating a tire!
by Man Mountain on
Jul 2, 2008 6:40 PM EDT
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All of this is nicely done
Thank you.
"As it says over the door to the Famous Writers' School in Connecticut: A Sullen Drunk Packing A Gat Is Not The Best Company For An Artist Finicky About His Style."
by Pops Daniels on
Jul 2, 2008 10:55 PM EDT
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thanks i'm rec'ing you
i am just a dumb history major, and think that ducks are the only way to discover witches.
The Dusty Path to the World Series!*
*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.
by justin007000 on
Jul 3, 2008 1:10 AM EDT
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What ? Aren't they ?
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on
Jul 3, 2008 11:02 AM EDT
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holla atcha history majors!
I learned about about using hips to create velocity through a childhood of playing lacrosse, so pitching always seemed sort of intuitive for me.
All the same, its surprising how much even collegiate athletes don’t understand how their bodies work. Any gym full of 20-year-olds you see is going to be full of dudes with big chests and biceps on chicken legs and woman hips. I didn’t start doing core excercise until I started rowing and wondering why my lower back hurt all of the time.
Power to ya, Mr. Mountain. Preaching the gospel quite well.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Jul 3, 2008 11:42 AM EDT
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some of us didn't really play much as a child
i tended to play right bench, unless we were teh home team and I played left bench. Even the years Dad was my teams couch i still spent time on the bench. i did pitch a few times but i overthought on the mound. I remember seeing how big leaguers gripped changeups and moving fastballs and fork balls, and I tried to do more than just throw the ball and pray it went over the plate, I tried to throw changeups and shit. I didn’t throw curves and sliders because Dad, wisly so, wouldn’t let me, and you know I needed to learn how to pitch off my fastball.
The Dusty Path to the World Series!*
*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.
by justin007000 on
Jul 3, 2008 12:07 PM EDT
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Well
It seems to me the change of scenery is not what really did it for Volquez. No doubt a change of scenery helped but looking at the rules and things the Rangers did with Volquez last season seemed to have helped more. The guy is very mature looking on the mound and expects great things from himself as a pitcher and the Rangers helped the guy mature. I think we need this type of thing to happen with Homer. We can not force him to mature as he is a grown man but we have to teach him to become more professional. It seems like Volquez and Cueto have gotten a mentor in Soto which has also helped them stay on track but Bailey SEEMS left on his own.
Now I have no facts backing this up but from the outside looking in this is what seems to be going on. I think he is still a little immature and with time that will be fixed. I like Bailey still and think trading him now would be selling very low. Lets send the guy out every five days with a detailed plan and try to force success on him. Then we may be able to get the same type of return for Homer that the Rangers did for Volquez. Not just sell low on Homer and get what we can.
by kennythered on
Jul 2, 2008 1:37 PM EDT
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I mean
Send him out every five days in the MINORS**
by kennythered on
Jul 2, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
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FJM on the Dunn Debate again
Find it here: Ken Tremendous doesn’t hate Adam Dunn
"I've been rapping for about seventeen years, okay? I don't write my stuff anymore. I just kick it from my head. I can do that. No disrespect, but that's how I am."
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Jul 2, 2008 1:16 PM EDT 0 recs
what is the story on the Latin American signings?
The Dusty Path to the World Series!*
*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.
by justin007000 on Jul 2, 2008 2:15 PM EDT 0 recs
We didn't get Inoa.
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Jul 2, 2008 2:57 PM EDT
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The Reds offered him a $5 million major league contract
but he took $4.5M from the A’s because he felt more comfortable with them and believed they have a better system for developing pitchers.
I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...
by Slyde on
Jul 2, 2008 3:50 PM EDT
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Speaking of the A's
Has anyone mentioned Joe Blanton’s year to Doc yet? Is he still worth Votto & Bailey?
sig lines are for suckas
by jch24 on
Jul 2, 2008 3:56 PM EDT
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Just thinking about that
Of course, Daugherty would probably spew some nonsense about how a switch to the NL would shave a couple of runs off his ERA.
by ken on
Jul 2, 2008 5:58 PM EDT
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I've mentioned it
on his putrid blog a couple of times this year. It was ignored.
"As it says over the door to the Famous Writers' School in Connecticut: A Sullen Drunk Packing A Gat Is Not The Best Company For An Artist Finicky About His Style."
by Pops Daniels on
Jul 2, 2008 10:58 PM EDT
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I wonder if he ever reads stuff like this:
NewportPops wrote:
I like you Doc. You make me laugh. You never let a little thing like factual information and research get in the way of your column and/or radio program. It’s fairly clear that you do not really like baseball, yet you continue to write about the Reds. That’s priceless. You keep spewing the same regurgitated and faulty wisdom that makes the monosyllabic barstool sages proud. Never wrong, but flexible in your omni-correctness, I always look forward to you singing the praises of micromanagement- especially if all the bunting, double-switching and caught-stealing results in exactly the opposite of what you think it will. If it weren’t for you, the boxscore would be merely informative. Thanks Doc, you flatten out my Earth.
7/2/2008 11:23 PM EDT
"As it says over the door to the Famous Writers' School in Connecticut: A Sullen Drunk Packing A Gat Is Not The Best Company For An Artist Finicky About His Style."
by Pops Daniels on
Jul 3, 2008 12:28 AM EDT
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truthiness
The Dusty Path to the World Series!*
*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.
by justin007000 on
Jul 3, 2008 1:12 AM EDT
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Which post is that on?
I don’t see it.
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Jul 3, 2008 7:55 AM EDT
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In the messages directly to him
"As it says over the door to the Famous Writers' School in Connecticut: A Sullen Drunk Packing A Gat Is Not The Best Company For An Artist Finicky About His Style."
by Pops Daniels on
Jul 3, 2008 9:34 AM EDT
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Doc is like a black hole, so tightly constructed in the space/time warp that absolutely no light may ecape.
He still thinks that the universe is static.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on
Jul 3, 2008 3:39 PM EDT
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yeah 5 mil for a 16 year old pitcher is flat out a little bit on the high side.
but a major league contract is just dumb. Inoa sounds like a smart kid.
Stephen A. Douglas was a great debater, but Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Jul 2, 2008 5:23 PM EDT
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Paul Harvey jokes never get old.
Unlike Paul Harvey.
Also, it was a reference to the FanPost™ title.
by Gray on
Jul 2, 2008 4:07 PM EDT
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Well we did get this new 2bman from the New Del-hi Pachyderms
a very keen cricketer – Prandon Punjab
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on
Jul 3, 2008 11:53 PM EDT
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So far in the 2nd half the offense has been decent
The pitching has hit a snag, growing pains…Bruce seems to be back on track.
Now if Walt would make a move or two, primarily to get a RH slugger to offset the LH pitching that’s constantly thrown at the REds…well who knows this season may turn out at around .500

THIS GUY SURE HELPED TURN THE 1975 REDS AROUND WHEN HE RELACED JON VUKOVITCH IN THE LINEUP.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jul 3, 2008 12:16 PM EDT 0 recs
I like that his position is
SLUGGER
We ain’t no last place team are we Pops ?
by Gray on
Jul 3, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
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Once when a media idiot criticised George's defense, Foster repled:
I don’t get paid to run into walls, my job is to hit home runs” (probably paraphrsed). but yep that was his position – Slugger, Homer Run Hitter, RBI Guy…It is an important position on any team, unless, of course, it is managed by Mr. Toothpick.
Heck, that’s what Adam’s job is also – To hit home runs and produce RBIs. It is an added bonus that his OBP and OBS are consistently so high and that he plays 160 or so games per year..
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jul 3, 2008 12:37 PM EDT 0 recs















