Open Thread: Two weeks til the All Star Break
For all intents and purposes the month of June is over. It was month where the Reds faced only two teams with a losing record - Toronto (currently 40-43) and Cleveland (currently 37-45). So it shouldn't be a surprise that the Reds have only managed an 11-16 month so far. There were some positives - the bullpen managed a 3.12 ERA during the month - but there were also negatives - the offense batted .217/.302/.357 during June and the starters posted a 5.44 ERA.
I'm not holding on to any belief that the Reds still have a shot at the playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean that they can't make some noise still. They are only 7 games under .500 right now and a good run over the next two weeks could at least create some excitement for the second half.
The upcoming 7-game home stand is crucial to that end. First they play 3 against the Pirates. A sweep would put the Pirates in last place all alone and could manage to bump the Reds all the way up to fourth (depending on how the Astros do against the Dodgers). After the Pirates, Leatherpants brings his last place crew to town for a 4-game stint. You may recall an 8-game homestand last year where the Reds went 2-6 against the Pirates and Nats. If that happens again this year then they might as well blow the team up cause it ain't going anywhere.
After playing the Pirates and Nats, the Reds head out on the road to face the Cubs and Brewers before the All Star break. If they can win 5 or 6 at home before going on the road, they might just be able to get to .500 with a little luck before the break. It'll be tough, but if the Reds are going to make a move, it has to be right now while they are playing division rivals in 9 of 13 games. If they want fans to have any interest in the last 3 months of the season, they better take advantage of this opportunity.
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39 comments
Comments
I wonder
What happens if they do go 10-3 before the break, to get to .500? Does Jocketty panic like Krivsky did 2 years ago? Or do they stick to a long-term plan?
You said “(i)f that happens again this year then they might as well blow the team up cause it ain’t going anywhere.” In my mind, that decision (whether to blow it up or not) should have already been made, and the answer should be “yes”. They have some important decisions to make, and a little run over 2 weeks doesn’t change what this team is – lacking OF power after this year (assiming Dunn and Jr are gone), without a quality C, and without much immediate impact from the minors (all of the good players are already up). There are shiny pieces that should draw interest (Homer, Bako, Keppinger), and someone should be willing to trade value for Arroyo; as has been pointed out before, Jr might bring a prospect or salary relief, but not both.
I still don’t know what to do about Dunn. Drafting Alonso puts them in a tough position, as I’ve said before. If he’s really that close to ready, I don’t see how they can sign Dunn as he, Alonso, and Votto will be vying for 2 spots. On the other hand, not signing him leaves a gaping power hole not just for next year (presumably Alonso won’t be ready quite that fast) but beyond as well.
At this point, I have no problem with the rotation next year. Harang’s numbers will bounce back. Volquez isn’t Pedro, but should still be pretty good. Other than an ugly game vs. St Louis, Cueto seems to be back on track. Thompson’s looked good to me. I’d be OK with Arroyo coming back, but would rather see him (and his large contract) go elsewhere, especially if the organization thinks Maloney will be ready in ‘09.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on Jun 30, 2008 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
the plan should have already been in action whether they near .500 or not. I would hate to have to root for a bunch of losses ‘cause this team needs to veteran overhauled. Griffey and Patterson better not be back. Dusty is not to be trusted with those two on the roster.
"As it says over the door to the Famous Writers' School in Connecticut: A Sullen Drunk Packing A Gat Is Not The Best Company For An Artist Finicky About His Style."
by Pops Daniels on Jun 30, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
my “blow it up” statement was meant to be a dramatic demonstration of how much it would suck to lose 6 of 7 to the ‘Rats and Nats’ over the next week. If they are depending on the next 13 games to make a decision of where to go, they’ve already lost. My urging of the importance of the next 13 games was only relevant to fan interest for the remainder of the season. Like I said, they’re not going to the playoffs, but baseball can still be fun to watch even if the playoffs are unlikely.
I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...
by Slyde on Jun 30, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of LHPs coming up
Maholum and Duke. TBA on Wednesday. I was about to post something about our problems with lefties, but our splits are actually much better facing them (264/354/415) than RHPs (238/310/392) so far, unlike last year.
by ken on Jun 30, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no, thats not true
most of our hitters are lefties, so we have more problems with left-handers than righties. It’s common sense.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on Jun 30, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But not this year
I was pointing out that despite a LHB-heavy lineup, we have better splits against LHPs this year. Not sure why, as two of our major RHB hitters (BP and EdE) haven’t had stellar seasons. In contrast, last year we batted much worse against LHPs (which as you point out, is common sense).
by ken on Jun 30, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then where was his winking emoticon?
/ken says with egg on his face
by ken on Jun 30, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Says you
.........Nope, never mind. Promises were made. :)
sig lines are for suckas
by jch24 on Jun 30, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're back in the States, right?
You don’t have to do that anymore.
by Brendanukkah on Jun 30, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, I'm here for another two months...
I’m required to leave the country by August 25, though.
by Gray on Jun 30, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
R vs L
BP has an over 400 point split in OPS against lefties (1.109) compared to righties (.672)
Keppinger’s split is 500 points (1.174 to .679)
Hairston has a .260 point split (.998 to .736)
Edwin is fairly balanced (.781 to .797)
The righties in total on the Reds have a 180 point split between facing lefties (.824) and righties (.641)
The lefties on the team are a little more balanced (.700 vs. LHP, .758 vs. RHP), but the fact that they aren’t killing RHP is killing the Reds. Last season Reds lefties had a .910 OPS against RHP.
I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...
by Slyde on Jun 30, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Even by record – which is basically irrelevant to such an examination, but I’m using it anyway – the Reds a having better luck against LH starters:
vs RHSP: 24-30
vs LHSP: 14-15
Last season:
vs RHSP: 49-54
vs LHSP: 23-36
I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...
by Slyde on Jun 30, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problems with left-handers?
Search your feelings. You know this to be true!

by Brendanukkah on Jun 30, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And what about
Guys like Hopper, Hairiston, and Freel. The Reds don’t really need (w/Kepp) 3 utlilty guys and a light hitting outfielder…although they are all RH batters. Of all the players sidnanacy mentions the one who I would think that the Reds might keep is Keppinger. Who is really going to want Patterson and Griffey doesn’t have the allure that he would have earlier even this year. I agree that they probably won’t resign Dunn, although i am preparing a personal letter to Bob castellini to request that he look at the big statistical picture and resign Dunn. (Lot of good that will do!)
God knows what the problem is with AARON HARANG, I still like Bronson as a 4 or 5 but he’s only good for 5 or 6 innings. Baily should be dealt along with Bako. Bako apparantly calls a good game but he’s another LH bat that can’t hit LH pitching.
We really can’t know what year 2 will be like for the rooks. Cueto, Edinson, Thompson and even Jay Bruce have not begun to establish themselves at the level of Harang, Dunn and Brandon Phillips. Votto and EdE are poised to have strong 2008 second halves. A good roster should include:
BP, EdE, Votto, Bruce, LMM, maybe Gonzo ? Keppinger, Thompson, Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Bray, Burton, CoCo, Ross
Maybe Affeldt, Jerry Jr. and Bronson
Wishful thinking – Adam Dunn, am I leaving anyone out…it appears that 5 or 6 spots are easily up for grabs. either young guys promoted or veterens picked fron FA or trades.
STubbornly I’ve still not completely given up on 2008…Bigs ifs = Ceuto, Voltron, thompson and the return of the Good bronson and a revived Harang along with a strong 2nd half from EdE, Votto, Kepp, BP and Dunn could make things interesting. The BP looks decent, the only horrid area (other than the manager) is the Bench.
I’m sad that such an apparantly good guy as Dusty Baker seems to be (from what I’ve read and what players have said) so out of touch with the game today. He is just plain incompetent, even more than
I thought he would be…he may single handedly lose enough games through poor decision making,to make any hope for a decent showiing the 2nd half just a pipe dream (Bonged out).
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jun 30, 2008 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
If I’d put more thought into my post, I’d have included Fropperston in the “shiny things” cagetory.
I heartily disagree, though, that a “good roster” for any team would include LLM. You do know hi’s slugging under .300 this year, don’t you?
I don’t know what to do about SS. I can’t imagine Keppinger hits well enough to make up for his defense; Janish clearly doesn’t field well enough to make up for his offense; who knows about AGon (does he even still exist)?
Finally (and this is also a reply to Slyde’s reply above), fan interest is going to be zero soon – no matter what happens the next two weeks, it appears the Reds are not good enough/managed properly to be even a .500 team. After another round of bluster from Castellini, I don’t see any hope with this team as currently constructed. So in my mind, blowing things up will only speed up the apathy train by a week or two.
Which is too bad. Two guys on the current roster will be going for major awards; a guy with “future MVP” written all over him will be playing every day; what should be the core of the pitching staff (both starters and relievers) will be showcased. They won’t win a ton of games, but without Jr, Dunn, Arroyo and some of the others, the fans of this team should be very interested in what’s happening on the field.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on Jun 30, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I included LLM because he is a pretty versatile guy who can PH well, well enough anyways.
Kepp’s defense is a definate problem and as the Reds are loathe play brandon at SS, maybe he shouldn’t be included but the guy can flat out hit. Why doesn’t the management utilize these guys to their best abilities instead of puttinf round pers in square holes – e.g. Kepp at SS. BP should be SS and Kepp 2B.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jun 30, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dispelling the LLM myth
i present LLM’s slash stats as a pinch hitter for his career:
.199/.259/.327
so no, he cant pinch hit. in fact, he is extraordinarily terrible at it. so bad that only Dusty Baker would continue to run him out there, even to pinch hit for Jay Bruce.
Stephen A. Douglas was a great debater, but Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 30, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to me...
The problems with our offense this season seem to stem from:
1. Lack of production from RF (Griffey, mainly) and CF (Dusty’s Butt-buddy).
2. A somewhat subpar season from Dunn. If he had his average up about 20 points, no one would be complaining, of course.
3. A bit of a regression from EdE.
4. A revolving door at SS due to injuries to everyone who plays more than 5 games at the position.
5. The catchers hitting like…well…catchers (even with witchcraft involved).
The problems with the pitching seem to have stemmed from:
1. Our #2 starter at the beginning of the season pitching like a #5 (or pitching like #2, perhaps).
2. Not being able to find anyone to fill the #5 spot without pitching like #2 for the first three months.
3. Our #1 starter at the beginning of the season being misused horribly in that 18-inning game in SD and pitching like #2 from that point on.
Interestingly, the bullpen hasn’t been the huge problem this year. The addition of Francisco Cordero seems to have moved everyone into their proper roles (Burton 8th inning, Weathers/Bray 7th inning, Affeldt/Lincoln elsewhere), and it has worked well.
I don’t see this team getting much better unless Griffey suddenly finds the fountain of youth, Harang becomes himself again and Arroyo gets back to being league average.
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on Jun 30, 2008 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NL OPS rank by position
C – .671 (13th) – sOPS+ 86
1B – .807 (9th) – sOPS+ 104
2B – .762 (5th) – sOPS+ 103
3B – .770 (8th) – sOPS+ 98
SS – .771 (4th) – sOPS+ 120
LF – .868 (5th) – sOPS+ 125
CF – .698 (11th) – sOPS+ 88
RF – .678 (14th) – sOPS+ 74
PH – .561 (12th) – sOPS+ 77
(sOPS+ is the OPS+ relative to the position and has been park adjusted)
The biggest problem has been RF, hands down. Last season the RF OPS+ was 109 with a raw OPS of .843. Griffey’s struggles leave a gaping hole for the Reds – one that Dusty insists on sticking in the heart of the order. We also need to see more from Edwin. His OPS should be over .850, though his .794 is higher than the overall 3B position for the Reds. I think Edwin might improve, but I hold out little hope for Griffey at this point – sadly.
From your list, the only the thing I’d disagree with is the shortstops. Even though they have been revolving, they’ve all (besides Janish) made the same deal with the devil. That’s why they keep getting hurt.
I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...
by Slyde on Jun 30, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting that our bench has been lousy this year
On paper, I feel more confident with the guys we have this year versus who we had last year, but I guess we’ve been plagued by injuries (causing our bench guys to be starters) and cutting away normally productive players who’ve been terrible this year (Hatteberg and Andy Phillips come to mind). Javy remains, of course, due to his value as a third baseman.
I just remember liking our depth going into this year, but it really hasn’t been a strength at all.
by Brendanukkah on Jun 30, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it has been a strength
in that we’ve had decent replacements for the injured guys. Unfortunately, we had no real replacement for Patterson, and Jr. isn’t going anywhere.
Hairston and Keppinger, and even Janish, have been more productive than I ever would have imagined. But they’ve been on the bench very infrequently…
by Gray on Jun 30, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I was about to point out the same thing...
That actually what has been our “bench” has been really the “bench for the bench.”
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on Jun 30, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point PH
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jun 30, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not mine, Gray's.
But I am always glad to take credit for other people’s work.
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on Jun 30, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed your work in Ken Burns' Baseball, Mrs. Kearns Goodwin
He's doing it. He's eating a tire!
by Man Mountain on Jun 30, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I didn’t have much clue about “sOPS+”. A handy tool that every GM should have, actually. Glad to see my “general baseball sense” isn’t fooling me. Does that make me a good/great baseball guy?
As for the shortstops point, I meant something similar to what you said. When we ran out of shortstops who were subscribers to Shortstop Witch Weekly was when the trouble started (and we started having Janish batting .180 hitting second, often right after the Butt-Buddy batting .190 and hitting first).
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on Jun 30, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and...
Your CF sOPS+ of 88 must include Jay Bruce’s numbers, right?
Without that, it must be something like -24.9448193 x c^2.
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on Jun 30, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, and RF includes Bruce's numbers as well
I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...
by Slyde on Jun 30, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
Did you see who is sponsoring Butt-Buddy’s B-R page?
Do we know this guy?
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on Jun 30, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
daniel.e.lowe
please stand up
by jacob brumfield on Jun 30, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
...it’s a Cubs fan. Who’s glad Corey is no longer a Cubbie.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Jun 30, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this list is pretty revealing.
a team can be solidly above average as a whole if most of your hitters are hitting around average for position, with a few boppers to stand out. the most telling thing about this though is that that galling .678 OPS for RF is hitting as one of the most important hitters in our lineup. that .762 for 2B is solid, but not as our freakin’ clean up hitter. Dunn hitting 6th or 7th is tragic. this team is not the offensive powerhouse it used to be, but with the proper line up construction it could be decent. once again, i blame Dusty.
Stephen A. Douglas was a great debater, but Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 30, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Fun" fact
In the last 20 seasons, Corey Patterson has the 4th worst OBP for a player with at least 200 plate appearances. Doug Strange was in his last season in the Majors and was used mainly as a PH. When he did start, he usually batted 7th. Brandon Inge was in his rookie year as a catcher and batted 9th in all but 3 starts. Juan Bell was also a rookie and also batted 9th the entire season, but really had no business on an MLB roster.
At his recent pace, his OBP will be under .200 in 42 plate appearances.
I want a hamburger. No, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake. I want potato chips...
by Slyde on Jun 30, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Another Fun Factoid
Not Since Coach narron has a manger in either league displayed such an incredible aversion to making intelligent decisions regarding:
Constructing a batting order
The use of starting Pitching
The use of a bullpen
The useof the strategic BUNT
The use of pinch hitters
The urging of hitting early in the count
And the use of defensive replacements
As has our present manager. For those RRs who have declared that managers are not that important to operating a winning team, I present -
Dusty ‘Toothpick’ Baker
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
by Madville on Jun 30, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bronson and Griffey will be gone
I hope Dunn stays
Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!
by Zach K on Jun 30, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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